The Mel Robbins Podcast#1 Mindset Expert: Simple Mindset Shifts That Transform Your Body, Energy, & Life
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 27,324 words- 0:00 – 4:09
Meet the Guest
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Do you believe the world is dangerous or safe? That's a mindset. Do you believe the world is just or unjust is a mindset. Do you believe the world is abundant, you know, full of resources, enough for all of us to go around? Or do you believe it's scarce? That's a mindset. These mindsets, Mel, they're not true or false. They're not right or wrong. They're oversimplified, highly evaluative judgments, but they matter in shaping our lives. In fact, they create our realities.
- MRMel Robbins
Today, the world's number one expert in mindset, Dr. Alia Crum, is here in our Boston studios. Dr. Alia Crum is a Stanford professor and she runs the Stanford Mind and Body Lab. She has proven in her research over and over again that your thoughts are working against you.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
My life's work is to understand the power of the human mind. Mindsets are quite literally settings of the mind.
- MRMel Robbins
Wait a minute-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Hold on a second. I ... Okay, and now I feel almost like an idiot.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
So the total effect of anything we do, whether that's medication or what we eat, for example, is a combined effect of what's actually in it and what you believe to be true about it. It no longer needs to be, "Oh, is it mind over matter?" No, it's mind and matter.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Alia Crum in the house. Thank you and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Thank you, Mel. It's so exciting to be here.
- MRMel Robbins
I am so excited because I really wanna make being super fit and healthier and happier easy and I- I do believe that you can help me change my mindset. So here's how I wanna start. Could you tell the person listening, how would my life be different, how might it be better if I take all of this amazing research and all the tools you're about to teach us and I just apply it to my life? What's gonna happen?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Hmm. So, Mel, uh, my life's work as an academic, but also as a human, is to understand the power of the human mind. So I think we all know this, right? There is this power of belief, of mindset, and the people who are listening to your show are especially clued into this fact. But I'd like to go a little deeper and be a little bit more specific.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Right, so when we say things like, "Oh, just believe," or-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... um, "Think positive."
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Or, you know, "Change your mindset." Like, what do we really mean?
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
What, what I'm hoping you're gonna tell me because I think with th- a lot of us do feel like, okay, I just have to believe, but you're here to teach us, no, there's actually something deeper and there's something more accessible.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah, I think we need to be more specific. So say you have something stressful on the horizon like a job interview or say you're trying to lose weight or get healthier or say you were just diagnosed with cancer-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... or some other health diagnosis. Like, it really matters to know what should you believe, what is the best mindset to have, like how much does that matter, and most importantly, what can we do to adopt more useful mindsets? So the goal as I see it for our conversation today is to help people to become more sophisticated and more skillful in-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... understanding and applying the power of the human mind.
- MRMel Robbins
Whoa. I love the idea that there is this skill that you can develop to be able to tap
- 4:09 – 9:05
Learn How to Control Your Mindset
- MRMel Robbins
into the power of your mind because way beyond sort of just your beliefs but rather understanding the mechanics-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... of how it works. Now, Dr. Crum, given that you are a world-renowned researcher on mindset, maybe we should just start with vocabulary. What exactly is mindset? What does that mean?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yes. So mindsets are quite literally settings of the mind. So they're-
- MRMel Robbins
Wait a minute. Hold on-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... a second. I ... Okay, and now I feel almost like an idiot because I don't- I've never heard anybody explain what is so obvious-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... now that you said it.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Mindset is the settings in your mind.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Exactly. Now, they're settings, they're lenses or frames of mind which orient us to a particular set of experiences.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Okay, so our minds can be set in many ways. The mindsets that I'm interested in that have sort of occupied my thinking and research are the mindsets that are set by our core beliefs.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
So our core beliefs are- are beliefs about the essence of what something is and why it matters.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. Can you give me an example? 'Cause already I'm like, "I don't know if I'm gonna follow this." Okay, go ahead.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yes. I know (laughs) . So an example. So we have mindsets about many things in the world. In fact-
- MRMel Robbins
And- and hold and let me just-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... because I wanna track with you because I'm so excited to really think about mindset as simply the settings in your mind and what I love about the idea of thinking about mindset as the settings in your mind is that even somebody like me who is not a world-renowned Stanford researcher like you understands at a basic level, wait a minute, if there are settings in my mind, then clearly someone or something-... put those settings in place, and if they're settings in my mind and I know about them, I have the ability, by learning from you, Dr. Crum, how to change the settings.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Exactly. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
That's what we're learning today?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
That's what we're learning.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh my God, I love this.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
And anybody can become aware of and change the settings.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. So give us an example of what you mean-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... when you say settings in the mind and how it impacts your life maybe right now and you didn't even realize it.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yes. So, we have mindsets about many things. Uh, my colleague Jared Clifton does great work, uh, looking at mindsets about the world-
- 9:05 – 22:24
How to Use The Placebo Effect In Your Life
- MRMel Robbins
it's gonna help us understand why the settings in our mind-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... which we can change, matter so much. You know, when you were coming, um, all the way here, we were all so excited. And the production assistant on this show got over a decade-long fear of flying simply by listening to your TED Talk and repeating to herself over and over again, she would say on this flight, "This is just an old setting in my mind."
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
And she says that that one technique from you helped her get over her fear of flying. In fact, I want you to hear from Alyssa.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm.
- NANarrator
Hi Dr. Crum. I've been afraid of flying for 10 years and every time I fly, I get super overwhelmed with the idea that I could potentially have a medical emergency in flight after an experience 10 years ago, and my body follows suit with physical symptoms that I'm sick. But since listening to your TED Talk, I was really able to update the setting in my mind and remind myself that my physical sensations only feel so real because I'm working myself up into believing them. So last week, I flew round trip from Boston to LA, and for the first time in forever I felt no sickness or anxiety. It's been so incredible putting your work into practice to make my mindset work with me, not against.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this. And here's what I wanna ask you, because I have personally the desire to turn this now into a personal coaching session for-
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... for like settings of my own mind-
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... and my kids' minds. But what I wanna know is, if she were on the plane and she were repeating to herself, "This is just an old setting in my mind"-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and that intentional saying, "These are just old settings in my mind"-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... allowed her to not get all worked up-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and feel the physical sensations that freaked her out, can you explain, Dr. Crum, what's actually happening-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... in this example?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah. Well, first of all, Alyssa, thank you for sharing that. Um, it's always so wonderful to know that the work we're doing is useful. What's happening there is really powerful, right? Which is first, you know, going back, her mind was set by probably some experience that she had-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... as a child-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... where she maybe got sick on a plane or maybe was on a plane and felt deep fear and anxiety or lack of control or whatever it was on that plane, and that memory kind of forged in her mind as a setting, right, that, you know, if you fly, you will feel horrible, you will feel out of control, you will feel sick, you will feel, I don't know what it was, but I'm guessing there was some association that was made between flying and physical symptoms.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Now, what's kind of glitchy about the mind is that... and the body, is that learning that, what the mind does is thinks, "Oh, I need to protect you from ever experiencing that again." Right? So, it thinks, "Let's avoid planes."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Right? Let's avoid any kind of situations when you're gonna feel like that again. But it also perpetuates this belief that if she flies, she's gonna feel those things.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- 22:24 – 37:21
Trick Your Mind to Work With Your Biology
- ACDr. Alia Crum
know that we can be empowered to change them.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Right? At any given moment, at any given time, you have the power to flip the switch.
- MRMel Robbins
Let's dig into it. One of your favorite topics is the placebo effect. What is the placebo effect? How does it work in our minds and our bodies? And then let's talk about how your research proves that we can use it to our advantage.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah, so the placebo effect is typically understood in the context of a randomized placebo-controlled trial.
- MRMel Robbins
Which is, for somebody who doesn't know what the heck that means, what is that?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah, so in a clinical trial, people are brought in and they're randomly put into two different groups, typically to test a new drug or medication. And, uh, half of the people will get the active drug or medication.
- MRMel Robbins
You mean like the real one?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
The real one.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
The real thing.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
The other half- half will get a, the exact same sort of capsule, um, but there'll be nothing in it, or it'll be an inactive substance.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
So that is called the placebo.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Now, clinical trials are important for testing the specific efficacy or effect of a new drug.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Right? So in a clinical trug- trial, they'll bring people in. They put them in these two groups. They'll measure the effect, and then they'll subtract out any effect that happens to occur when you're on the placebo, right? 'Cause the assumption is that's not real, right? The, what's real is in the capsule. If anything else happened because you believed you were getting a real pill or you were just taking a pill, the act of taking a pill or the feeling of being cared for-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... like, that's not real medicine, so let's just subtract that out.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Now, what's interesting, and people have caught on with, is that in almost all of these trials, the placebo tends to work to some degree. So-
- MRMel Robbins
Let me, let me just translate this so-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... make sure I'm tracking.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
So if you're doing, like, some sort of clinical trial and you've got the real drug that's supposed to treat some medical condition or whatever-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... you got that group taking that, and then you measure whether or not the drug works.There's this whole other group taking the placebo. Basically, you're getting a sugar pill that's fake.
- 37:21 – 54:04
How Your Mind Changes How Food Affects You
- MRMel Robbins
the mechanisms in the brain-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and the research that proves that your mind and body are linked and the settings impact your biology. I would love to have you explain your famous Milkshake study. If there was ever a scientific study-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... that I wanted to be a subject in, I think it would be-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... a study called the Milkshake study. But could you explain what this study is, how you conducted it, and more importantly, what did you find in the famous Milkshake study?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And what does it tell us about what's possible regarding the settings of your mind and the power that it has over your health?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yes. Great. So, the Milkshake study was very simple actually. We brought people into the Metabolic Research Lab, this was done at Yale University, and we had them come in two time points and we had them drink a 350-calorie milkshake.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. What flavor?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Um, it was vanilla.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Just a simple vanilla milkshake. And meanwhile, while they were drinking this milkshake, we had them hooked up to an IV. And the reason we had them hooked up to an IV is we were measuring their blood.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
And in particular, we were interested in this hormone called ghrelin.
- MRMel Robbins
Ghrelin?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Ghrelin.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, ghrelin.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
So, ghrelin, medical experts call this the hunger hormone.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
So the hunger hormone is thought to help regulate hunger and metabolism. So, when ghrelin levels are high, that signals to your brain, "Hey, seek out food," right? And it also slows metabolism until you actually secure and consume that food.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
And theoretically, it had been assumed that in proportion to the amount of calories you eat, ghrelin levels will drop. So, if we go out and have a burger and a milkshake and a lot of calories, ghrelin levels will plummet-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... which signal to the brain, "Okay, you can stop prioritizing food consumption and rev up the metabolism in the body to burn the food that you just ate."
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Now, of course, if we didn't get food or if we only ate a little bit of food, ghrelin levels would drop only slightly, therefore kind of perpetuating those hunger signals and keeping metabolism slow.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Okay. So-
- 54:04 – 1:15:39
Practical Tools to Live a Healthier Life
- ACDr. Alia Crum
I, you know, I always look at the dessert menu and I give myself permission to say, "Do I really want anything on this menu?"
- MRMel Robbins
This is so cool. I, I would love, given your amazing research and the insights, and now the science that we understand, the profound breakthrough that it's had on your life, to really kind of break this down into practical tools-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... based on your research. And so I am going to pick up objects that are related to health.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
And for, if you're listening, I will describe it. You'll be able to see it if you're watching on YouTube. And then I would love to have you describe what are the settings in our mind, the mindset that we-... should have if we want better health outcomes.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
All right.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
So, the first one is this. I'm holding a big head of iceberg lettuce. Okay? If you like a wedge salad, we've got a whole head here waiting for the blue cheese and the bacon.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Okay, great. So, I guess I would turn it on you, Mal-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-oh.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... and I would say, like, when you look at that lettuce-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... like, what's the first thing that comes to mind?
- MRMel Robbins
Well, the first thing that came to mind is my mom-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... 'cause she loves iceberg lettuce in a salad.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Oh, interesting.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Okay. Um, well, that's interesting. (laughs) Um, if you decided you were gonna feed your kid-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... uh, maybe when they were littler-
- MRMel Robbins
Little?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Um, this iceberg lettuce-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... for dinner, what would they think?
- MRMel Robbins
Yuck. That's it? Salad?
- 1:15:39 – 1:20:36
You Have More Control Than You Think
- ACDr. Alia Crum
right? Those are the beliefs that matter. They're about categories of things like yourself, healthy eating, your fitness, and so forth.
- MRMel Robbins
I gotta change those settings-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... Dr. Crum. If the person who's with us right now really wants to put your work into practice today-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... what's one thing-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Hm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that you think is the most important thing to do after listening and learning all this today?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah. I think what I would say to the person listening or watching is to s- to start where you are, (laughs) right? To start by acknowledging the problems that you're facing. Start by acknowledging the goals that you have. And then take that next step and ask yourself, "What mindset could I adopt that would help me address those problems or achieve-
- MRMel Robbins
Hm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
... those goals?" To the person who might be struggling with their weight, I would remind them to, sure, focus on eating nutritiously, but focus more on adopting the mindset of indulgence.
- MRMel Robbins
Hm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Eating while enjoying the pleasure of doing so. And if you're somebody who's dealing with a health diagnosis like cancer, or any health diagnosis for that matter, can you know that mindsets like, "This is manageable, your body is capable," that those mindsets are well within your grasp?
- MRMel Robbins
And what I love is they're also well-researched-
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Hm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and have extraordinary benefits that you have now explained to all of us. It's so amazing. Dr. Crum, what are your parting words?
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Yeah, I think I would say two things. The first is to just get in touch. Um, y- we've done a lot of research, but we're really just at the tip of the iceberg in understanding the power of our mind. Um, and I don't do this research so it can sit on dusty shelves.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Like, (laughs) I truly do it to solve my problems, our problems, right? So, I really encourage people to get in touch, however that might be, whether that's LinkedIn or through our website, Instagram, and share your stories.
- MRMel Robbins
Hm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Share what works. Share what doesn't work. Share your questions. (laughs) Share your ideas, right? Because this is what makes the research better.
- MRMel Robbins
Hm.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
This is what enables us to do studies that are relatable, they're relevant, and they're, uh, a- applicable at the end of the day. And then lastly, I think I would say most importantly is that you got this, right? There's so much in life that we can't control, that we can't change, but our mindsets are something that we can. So, you got this. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
And because of you, Dr. Crum, we actually do. So, thank you for your research. Thank you for traveling all the way to Boston to be here to teach us all of this. Thank you for everything that you do. And thank you for explaining the power of the settings in your mind in such a way that I totally believe you and I am going to use everything we talked about today.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And I know it's gonna make a huge difference in my life.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
So, thank you.
- ACDr. Alia Crum
Thank you, Mel. It really is an honor and a pleasure to have this conversation, and I'm so grateful for the work that you do.
- MRMel Robbins
Aw. Well, thank you for saying that. And I also wanted to say I'm grateful that you're here with us. I love that you spend time listening and watching, uh, this show because it is helping you learn, it's helping you grow, it's helping you do better, and it's also an incredible resource. I mean, share Dr. Crum's research with everybody that you care about. How extraordinary to know that there are settings in your mind that are well within your control to change and the research is there and it proves that it creates better outcomes. You're gonna feel better. You're gonna do better. And in case no one else tells you, as your friend, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you. I love you for listening to this. I love you for being interested in this. I love you for taking what you learned today very seriously. And I also believe that if you do that, it will help you create a better life. Alrighty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. And thank you for watching all the way to the end, and you're gonna love this next video and I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play.
Episode duration: 1:20:36
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