The Mel Robbins PodcastDo THIS Every Day to Rewire Your Brain From Stress and Anxiety
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
50 min read · 10,150 words- 0:00 – 1:59
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Burke Harris is here to teach you how to break free from the patterns in your past so you can finally heal yourself and feel in control of your emotions, your thoughts, your actions, and your life. Dr. Nadine Burke Harris is one of the most important voices in trauma science and public health. She is a medical doctor, a pediatrician who trained at Stanford University, and she holds a Master's in Public Health from Harvard.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Stress is no longer going to be in the driver's seat of your life. I think if folks really apply this science to their lives, what they'll find, number one, it can improve their health and wellbeing. Number two, relationships will become less reactive and more connected.
- MRMel Robbins
What is trauma?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
At its core, trauma is the biological response to overwhelming stress. So a lot of us think of it as the stressor, the thing that happened to us.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
But it's actually the body's reaction to that stress.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, I think I had this wrong for a long time. I always thought trauma was the thing that happened. You're saying trauma is your body's response to the thing that happened?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
That's right.
- MRMel Robbins
And not only in the moment that it happened, but that it continues to respond in similar ways.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Exactly right. People used to think that stressors or traumatic experiences that happened in infancy, like, oh, if you don't remember it, it didn't affect you.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And it turns out [laughs] it's the exact opposite. The younger you are, those experiences that happen in infancy, they can actually shape the way that your stress response is wired. So you may not remember the actual event, but the body remembers.
- MRMel Robbins
Where do you start?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Okay, so this-
- 1:59 – 5:14
The Impact Of Stress On Your Biology
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Thank you so much for having me.
- MRMel Robbins
I am a tremendous admirer of your work, and I would love for you to start by explaining how might my life be different if I take everything to heart that you're about to share with us about this extraordinary research related to experiences in your childhood and how they manifest in your behavior as an adult, and what you can do to set yourself free. What could change about my life if I really apply what I'm about to learn from you?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
The biggest thing that will change in your life if you apply this is that stress is no longer going to be in the driver's seat of your life.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? So what that means is understanding how stress gets under our skin and changes our biology allows us to use that biology and work with it instead of working against it. And so it'll help us understand ourselves better, and also to be able to understand the people in our lives better, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And so I think if folks really apply, um, this science to their lives, what they'll find, number one, is that it can improve their health and wellbeing. Number two, relationships will become less reactive and more connected.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And, uh, number three, it's, it's a guidepost around how to set up your life for the support that we need to be functioning in a way that's just more balanced and less effortful going forward.
- MRMel Robbins
That would be nice-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... to be able to move through your day without feeling like you're dragging the weight of the world or that you're in a straitjacket that you seem to have put yourself in. And I believe you because your work has had a huge impact on me. In fact, understanding both in myself, when there were patterns that I didn't quite understand or things that would trigger me, or I would get easily emotionally flooded and pissed off-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm-hmm, yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and screaming at people, and then I'm apologizing, and then I didn't understand why, and I just felt like I couldn't change my behavior. I thought there was something wrong with me, because I felt like somehow I was choosing to be this way. And a lot of what your work has done for me is to help me see that there are a lot of things about my behavior, at least that used to be present, that were part of the biological and the neurological conditioning that happened during my childhood, and that this is true for everybody. And so what I'd love to dig into, because I do think everything that you're gonna teach us today is profoundly life-changing, like you'll never look at yourself, your childhood, or anybody around you the same again. Let's talk a little bit about
- 5:14 – 7:50
What Is Trauma and Its Effects?
- MRMel Robbins
what is trauma, and your work specifically talks about adverse childhood experiences.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
What is trauma?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
At its core, trauma is the biological response to overwhelming stress.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So a lot of us think of it as the stressor, the thing that happened to us.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
But it's actually the body's reaction to that stress.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, I think I had this wrong for a long time. I always thought trauma was the thing that happened. You're saying trauma is your body's response to the thing that happened?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
That's right.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, and not only in the moment that it happened, but that it continues to respond in similar ways.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Exactly right, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
After it. Okay.I get it now.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, one of the things that's really amazing about your work is you are the first researcher to connect childhood trauma and chronic stress to all kinds of things like heart disease, autoimmune disorder, diabetes, cancer, substance abuse, and things that are even more subtle that we struggle with in our adult lives that we may not realize are tied to something deeper. What was it that made you lean in, in terms of what you were seeing in your patients, to start to put these pieces together, Dr. Burke Harris?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Well, to be honest, what really happened for me was I started my career, my clinical practice, opening a clinic in one of San Francisco's under- most underserved neighborhoods, because I was really motivated by, you know, improving health outcomes for the vulnerable. And what I was seeing was that over and over again, patients were being referred to me for ADHD-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. And, you know, as I was doing what I was trained to do, you know, history and physical, just for a lot of my patients, it felt like there was a disconnect.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? Um, because I noticed that the patients who were having the m- who were struggling the most were also the ones who were dealing with some of the most difficult things in their lives, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
The most stress and, and, and trauma going on around them. But really the thing that kind of broke it open for me was
- 7:50 – 14:30
How Childhood Trauma Can Impact Your Life
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
a patient who was a little boy who stopped growing.
- MRMel Robbins
Stopped growing?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Who stopped l- literally. So this was a seven-year-old child who was referred to me by the school nurse, and he was d- having difficulty with behavior and focus and paying attention in class. But when he walked in to my exam room, the thing that I noticed about him was that he was itty bitty, right? He was, he was seven years old, but his height and weight were at the 50th percentile for a four-year-old.
- MRMel Robbins
What?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah. So when I sat down and I asked his mom, I said, "Okay, so when did you notice these behavior problems started?" And she said, "Really, it was right, you know, when he was four." And I was like, "Wait a minute. This is so weird."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Behavior problems started w- when he was four. I look at his growth chart. He's a growth arrest when he's four. And so I'm starting to put it together and I said, "Did something happen when he was four?" And his mom was just water works. And so we had to take, you know, took my patient, took him to the, uh, waiting room, and his mom went on to tell me the story that he experienced a serious trauma. So he had a, a sexual assault when he was four years old, and he had growth arrest. He, um, had struggled with learning and, um, also after that his, you know, his asthma and his breathing problems, uh, had gotten a lot worse. So i- if, if a kid's not growing, you call the endocrinologist, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
That's the hormone specialist. And I called the endocrinologist. I said, "You know what? This is, this is so weird. Is this possible that this child could have had all of this could be because of this trauma?" And she said, "Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The effect of stress hormones could do that." And I said, "Okay, so what does that mean in terms of treatment?" And she said, "The, the treatment, if that's the case, is not hormonal therapy-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... it's talk therapy." Right? You need psychotherapy and best practices with, you know, uh, therapy for kids, developmentally appropriate therapy for kids. That will help his stress hormones to normalize, and that is what is necessary for him to grow again, and literally that's what we did.
- MRMel Robbins
Did it work?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
It did work. It really, it improved his growth.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
It improved his asthma. The challenge was, for that particular family, there were more stressors-
- MRMel Robbins
Ah
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... and more stressors. And this is a big part of the reason why I've ended up dedicating my career to studying the science of stress and resilience.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna make sure that as you were listening to Dr. Burke Harris, that you really got one of the key takeaways there, because I think it's fascinating to call the endocrinologist and say, "Wait a minute, I'm having this insight that something traumatic on the outside impacted-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm-hmm
- MRMel Robbins
... the physiology and the chemical structure of this kid, and now we're seeing a physical manifestation of that because his growth has been arrested."
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
That's right.
- MRMel Robbins
What are some surprising ways, Dr. Burke Harris, that traumatic or adverse ins- like, experiences can show up in your adult life, but on the surface, particularly if you're one of these people-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... you're like, "I'm j- I'm going to work. I'm doing my thing. Like, I, I, I'm not gonna..." Like, that show up that could be tied to something deeper?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
I would say one of the most common ways is how it shows up in our relationships, right? Because our relationships are where our stress response gets tested over and over and over again.
- MRMel Robbins
Are you talking about marriage?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Raising children?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Uh-
- MRMel Robbins
Going to work? [laughs]
- 14:30 – 19:23
The Top 10 Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) That Can Cause Trauma
- MRMel Robbins
take in. And so what I'm learning so far is that there are very adverse and tragic and unfair and scary things that may happen to you and that do happen to people, and the way that your body responds to that threat is the trauma.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
What your body remembers, how it responds.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. And would you just explain for the person listening, what are the top ten adverse childhood experiences that can have a traumatic, like, imprint on you and that can create an overactive stress response as an adult?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Um, absolutely. So as I was caring for patients and, um, seeing that my patients who had experienced more stressors, more adversity, more difficulties at home were also having increased risk of asthma, autoimmune disease, behavioral challenges, learning disorders, right, all these different things. I started diving into the research and saying like, "Okay, well, I'm the doctor here, so I got to figure out how to, um, you know, what do I do about this?" And so one of the seminal pieces of research is the Adverse Childhood Experiences study. It was published in nineteen ninety-eight, right? So now almost thirty years ago. It was conducted by the CDC, Centers for, uh, uh, Disease Control and Prevention, and Kaiser Permanente. And what they did was they asked seventeen and a half thousand people, that's a lot of people, Mel, for a research study-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... about their history of ten categories of adverse childhood experiences.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
These included physical, emotional, or sexual abuse, physical or emotional neglect, or growing up in a household where a parent had a mental health disorder, substance dependence, was incarcerated, where there was parental separation or divorce, or intimate partner violence. So those were the ten ACEs that they looked at. And what they found was shocking, right? The first was that ACEs were incredibly common. Two-thirds of people had experienced at least one ACE, right? One in eight folks had experienced four or more.
- MRMel Robbins
Four or more of those?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yes. In fact, the CDC just updated this research. Now, nationally, it's one in six individuals have experienced four or more of these-
- MRMel Robbins
Wow
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... traditional ACEs. But the second thing that they found was that there was a dose-response relationship between these ACEs and health problems, right? So a person with four or more ACEs was four and a half times as likely to experience depression, was seven times as likely to experience alcohol dependence, was ten times as likely to, uh, be dependent on opiate- opiates. But they were also two and a half times as likely to develop heart disease, right? Almost, uh, three times as likely to develop chronic lung disease. And at first, people thought, "Oh, okay, you have a rough childhood, you're more likely to drink and smoke and do all these things that affect your health. That's, that's what it is."But it turns out that some very smart researchers actually looked at what happens when you remove the impact of health-damaging behaviors, and that was only about 50% of the risk. So the good news is that, you know, if you've experienced these ACEs and you don't engage in any health-damaging behavior, you're not sedentary, you, you, you eat really healthy, you exercise regularly, they, um, that removes about 50% of the risk.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
But the other half of the risk-
- MRMel Robbins
Was just-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... the adverse childhood experience?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Was just the impact of the overactive stress response, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Whoa.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
It's like, because when, when we, when we activate our stress response, right, it also activates our immune response.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? So we get increased inflammation in our bodies, and that's part of the reason we s- why we see increased risk for things like heart disease and autoimmune disease. And the good news is there's a lot that people can do to prevent adverse outcomes, and one of the key is buffering.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Burke Harris, what
- 19:23 – 29:28
What Is Buffering?
- MRMel Robbins
exactly is buffering?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Buffering is a set of interventions that helps the body be able to re-regulate itself.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So, so buffering can be a safe, stable, and nurturing presence. Uh, buffering can be, uh, an intervention, like a therapeutic intervention. And, you know, as a physician, I would say that even, uh, biological buffering can even include, for example, pharmacotherapy. And I'll, I'll just give you an example. So m- my husband and I have four kids.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? So when something, um, scary or stressful happens with one of our boys, right, what's the first thing that we do? We, we grab our kids, we, we bring them in, right? And we say, "You're okay," right? And we, we're calm.
- MRMel Robbins
Aw.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
We're regulated, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Aw.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And we say, we say, "You're okay. It's gonna be okay. That was scary, wasn't it?" Right? We acknowledge the fear. We let them know that they're safe, right? And, and we pull them in, maybe we pull them into a hug. What does that do? First of all, the hug releases oxytocin. Oxytocin directly blocks the activation of the biological stress response.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So we're literally releasing hormones in their bodies to be able to inhibit the activation of the stress response. But the other thing that we do is help them understand, okay, what happens when we feel all these big feelings, right? We feel them, we see them, we recognize them, and then we, if you're our kids, right, you get help, and then that brings things back to baseline again.
- MRMel Robbins
Ah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And so that is, essentially, that's buffering.
- MRMel Robbins
So let me just see if I'm tracking with you. So if trauma is not the thing that happened, it's your body's response to it, and it creates this overactive stress response, buffering is what you intentionally do to lower that stress response when you experience it in your life? It's, like, kind of soothing your s-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... is that what it's like?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Buffering is what you intentionally do-
- MRMel Robbins
Yep
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... to bring yourself back into balance.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, I get it.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
When we talk about the impact of adversity or stress or trauma, one of the most important things that the science shows is that adversity and stress can lead to trauma in absence of adequate buffering caregiving system. What it does is that it helps our kids learn how to process, how to regulate themselves, and how to get back to baseline, right? And so that's what, that's what buffering does.
- MRMel Robbins
Is there a way you can illustrate buffering?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yes. Okay, I have a great, great example of this.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, good, 'cause I like visual examples.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So-
- MRMel Robbins
And I'm gonna explain this. If you're listening, don't panic, I got you. I'm gonna explain this.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So, so a great example or a visual someone could think of in their mind-
- 29:28 – 33:39
What Baby Rats Teach Us About Overcoming Trauma
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
they did was they, um, uh, researchers took these baby rats, and they stressed them out, right, by handling them, and then they gave them back to their moms. And some moms naturally did a lot of buffering.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So lots of licking and grooming. That's what rat moms do. And some moms, not so much. They didn't do a lot. And then when those baby rats grew up, they did all these, you know, tests on them, and what they found was that the rats that had a lot of buffering did better on, uh, cognitive tests, right? They were more stress tolerant. So they were more able to explore. They were more adventurous.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
When they actually measured their biological stress response, their stress response shut itself off more normally after the stressor was gone, and this was really important.When those rats had their own babies, they were more likely to do lots of buffering, lots of licking and grooming, right? And, and the ones who didn't receive a lot of, um, of buffering care, it was the opposite. Like, they were less stress tolerant. Their stress response would stay on longer after a stressor. So after the stressor's already gone, they're still fired up with the stress hormones, right? And when they had their own babies, they were less likely to do the buffering care. And what was wild about it was that these behaviors, they could actually-- they were tied to markers on the, uh, epigenetic markers. So markers, not changes to the genetic code, but markers on the DNA to tell the body, like, which parts of the genetic code get read.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So here's the really cool part, right? So then what they did with the next generation of rat babies, they-- I don't know if they were watching Lifetime TV-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... but they, they switched them at birth.
- MRMel Robbins
What?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So the, the-
- MRMel Robbins
The ones that, that-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
The-
- MRMel Robbins
... grew up with, with rat moms and dads that gave a lot of cuddling and licking.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right. They went to-
- MRMel Robbins
The one-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... a low buffering-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... mom, and the, the ones that were from a low buffering mom, they, they cross fostered them to a high buffering mom. And what they found was they took on the stress reactivity of their rearing mother, not of their biological mother. And then even the epigenetic markers were of their rearing mother, not of their biological mother. And what that showed was that experience of receiving buffering actually changed the epigenetic markers for these baby rats. So it actually changed the way their DNA was read and, and expressed, and that was what translated into changes in behavior.
- MRMel Robbins
That's really exciting, because if I'm tracking correctly, and you tell me if I've got this or not, you're basically saying that even if you have had a lot of adverse experiences or traumatic experiences and you did not receive the support and the nurturing and the intervention that you needed at the time, that the research shows that if you recognize that and you provide that to yourself now, that changes you and it changes your, like, DNA almost in terms of what's firing, and it opens the door to a completely different way to experience your life. Is that what you're saying?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
That's exactly right. It changes your biology. So when we
- 33:39 – 46:55
How Does Your Body Remember Trauma?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
experience something stressful or traumatic, it activates our biological stress response, and that, it actually involves a lot of our body system, like the brain, the immune system, our hormonal systems, even the way our DNA is read and transcribed. And in ab- in absence of adequate buffering caregiving systems, what can happen is that our stress response can actually stay on high alert.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And then that increases the risk for not only some of the stuff we typically a- associate with trauma, right? Um, maybe anxiety or depression, mental health or behavioral health challenges, but it, it turns out that it also increases the risk for things like headache, asthma, autoimmune disease, heart disease, cancer, right? And that is because of these changes that we see to our biological systems when we don't have enough buffering.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, it kind of makes sense because if you have something that flipped on your fight or flight survival mechanism and you didn't have any buffering that helped you flip it off and start to feel safe again, your body starts to run at that rate, always under threat.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, I woke up for, my God, I, uh, I had an incident in the fourth grade where I woke up in the middle of sleeping during a sleepover and found an older kid on top of me, and immediately-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Oh, my goodness
- MRMel Robbins
... like possumed and disassociated and froze. That was-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm
- MRMel Robbins
... the response-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm
- MRMel Robbins
... in your definition-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... to what was happening in my body.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
I didn't remember it.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Wow.
- MRMel Robbins
I didn't remember it for over a decade and a half.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Wow.
- MRMel Robbins
And then had this moment where I was listening to somebody else tell a similar story, and the whole thing came flooding back.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And it took me another decade and a lot of therapy to recognize that the experience that I had from being in the fourth grade to being a grown woman with a job-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and kids, and I'm married, and I'm able to mostly pay my bills, and I'm somewhat functioning. [laughs]
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But every single morning for three decades, I would wake up and have this intense sense of dread, no matter what was going on. It could be the most beautiful day. It could be a weekend. We could have incredible plans. And in my body, I felt this like, ugh-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... something's wrong. Someone's ma- Like, just this deep thing. And what I've come to learn, and your work has been a huge part of this, is that is what you're talking about. My body was remembering the experience of waking up the morning after it happened, and I didn't tell anybody what had happened.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
So there was nobody to buffer me.
- 46:55 – 54:06
Daily Self Regulation Practices for Adults
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
there are actually seven evidence-based interventions to help buffer the biological stress response that I include, that I actually wrote about in the, in the surgeon general's report, and these include sleep, exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, mental health, and healthy relationships, so, and, and time in nature. So these are the seven evidence-based interventions that help to regulate the biological stress response. So that's, I would say, step one. And then, Mel, I would say step two is really connecting and, and intentionally building for yourself, right, these safe and stable relationships. That is key. We all know, we all have the, the one girlfriend we talk to when we're about to say something that sounds crazy and we know that she's [laughs] not gonna overreact or the, the brother, right, who was there during all the madness and can validate our experience and, um, and just be present, right? So really identifying who are the people in our lives, and it's, sometimes it's one person, and one person is enough, right? That's the good news. One person is enough. But oftentimes it's more than one person that we can talk to, be authentically vulnerable, and feel safe.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? And for, and sometimes it means that we're gonna need more, so it, we may need to reach out to a therapist or we may wanna try, um, you know, trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy or internal family systems therapy or EMDR. But any of these, uh, these different interventions can also help us to establish internal safety and regulate ourselves. And then finally, for some people, medication is helpful, right? And so that's the other thing. We can talk to your doctor.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that you said the first step is-The starting with yourself
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
And the reason why I love that is I can think back, uh, m- it, and it's more recent than I care to admit, to me having an overactive stress response, me not having started EMDR yet, me still... Like I w- I'm the kind of person that when I get emotionally, like, triggered by something, the stress response is like a volcano. And I can think of moments with my husband, like I would walk in the door, pressure, like got a great amount of evidence for why I deserve to be stressed, and this is very... And like barking at everybody, and then the poor man just shuts down.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
And so how could I possibly buffer him as he's going through his stuff if I can't even buffer myself?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And I also feel like it's a really important thing if you have challenging people in your life, 'cause I do think almost every one of us has somebody that has an overactive stress response-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... and isn't shutting down. They're the ones yelling at you.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
They're the ones who are unpredictable, and you're not going to be able to deal with them if you don't start buffering and creating safety for yourself, and being the I am here, in your words, for yourself as a way to feel safe even around somebody chaotic. I hate admitting that I was the chaotic person. I hate admitting that I was the asshole. I hate admitting that-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Oh, my gosh, I love that you're admitting that. You wanna know why? Because I feel like for a lot of people, the, the biggest obstacle to being able to address a dysregulated stress response is even acknowledging, right? People say, "Oh, yeah, I, I had these difficult experiences, but it didn't affect me because, look, I've got a great job, I'm making good money, I, you know, I have this nice house, and I even have a great spouse," right? "And so it didn't affect me." And you're like...
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs] Is that why you drink a bottle of wine every night after work?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Like-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right. Right? And so that first step-
- MRMel Robbins
Ugh
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... of being able to say... And let me just tell you something, that piece is a part of saying I'm here for yourself, is to be able to see, "Mm, gosh, I did just kinda react a little heavy-handed there, didn't I? That's not the mom I wanna be."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
"That's not the partner I wanna be. That's not the self I wanna be."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? Or, "Wow, I did feel really dysregulated." Because one of the things that happens when we experience trauma and adversity is that we become the ones who can't see ourselves, right? And so that piece of it, being able to say, "Yeah, I felt really overwhelmed, and I responded in a way that, that I wasn't proud of." So the next thing that you do for yourself-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... and it just depends on how, how much it's affecting you, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So it can be making a plan with your partner, right? About h- so it's how do you get that buffering for, how do you set up an infrastructure of buffering for yourself?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- 54:06 – 1:02:47
Willpower Or Biology: What’s in Control?
- MRMel Robbins
One of the other things about your work, Dr. Burke Harris, that I think is important for you to explain, because you're very clear about the fact that willpower, motivation, and mindset often fail when you have an overactive nervous system. So could you, as a doctor, just kind of explain, if you're dealing with this issue of motivation-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... you can't get your resume done, you can't seem to do the get up and go, you're in that loop of thinking about what you need to do, but you can't quite get the juice to do it. What is going on when that's happening that relates to this overactive stress response?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah. So, um, the analogy that I like to give-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... is the way that our stress response works is that you can imagine if you're walking in the forest and you see a bear-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... right? Like, what happens in our brains and bodies?
- MRMel Robbins
[gasps] Yes.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Well, the first thing is our amygdala, right, which is our brain's alarm system, sounds the alarm and tell our brain and body to release stress hormones.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
So we release adrenaline and cortisol, so our hearts start to pound, our pupils dilate, our airways open up. We shunt blood to our big muscles for running and jumping, and away from that itty-bitty muscle that holds your bladder closed, so you may pee your pants, but there's no judgment.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right?And, uh, so you're ready to either fight the bear-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... or run from the bear.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
But if you were to think about it, fighting a bear would not seem like a good idea, would it?
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
No. And that's why the amygdala actually sends neurons, it sends projections to the prefrontal cortex. That's the part of the brain that sits right here-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... behind the forehead.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
And this is the part that's responsible for judgment, impulse control, executive functioning, and it turns it way down.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Because the last thing you want, if you're in a forest and there's a bear, is some impulse control getting in the way of survival.
- MRMel Robbins
Right, because if you were to make a rash, stupid decision-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right
- 1:02:47 – 1:04:54
Hopeful Signs You are Healing From Trauma
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
here."
- MRMel Robbins
If, um, the person listening starts to use these tools, and you start to provide the buffering for yourself, I am here-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm-hmm
- MRMel Robbins
... what are some of the small little glimmers that you might notice that are signs that this is working?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Honestly, some of the things that I've noticed [laughs] in my, in my own life, um, and in my own relationships is that we can be less reactive, right? And more responsive.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Um, what I've seen in my clinical practice is that, um, when we add this buffering-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... to whatever the standard treatment is, whether it's ADHD or a child's not growing or whatever, then we see clinical improvement, right? So whether it's, you know, headache or abdominal pain, just when we add that layer of buffering, we're able to regulate the stress response. We see the impacts both behaviorally in terms of how we show up both for ourselves and in our relationships, and then we also can see the difference in our health.
- MRMel Robbins
That makes sense to me because I know in my own experience that there are still things almost daily that trigger me. It knocks me off my balance for a moment. Then I can take a deep breath because I've been practicing the buffering skills without really truly understanding it as a complete way to be there for yourself and to heal yourself. Um, your response time is so... I, I don't snap at my kids anymore. I'm faster to apologize.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm more patient. I'm way more compassion with annoying people in my life, and I can just exhale and be there for myself, and it's shocking how much things change.
- 1:04:54 – 1:06:09
How To Help Someone You Love Who Has Experienced Trauma
- MRMel Robbins
You know, can you speak to the person that's been listening who is realizing that somebody that they love has a lot of adverse childhood experiences?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And they can see that this person that they love is in an overactive stress response. What is one thing that you want them to know that they could do to support this person in their life other than sending them this episode?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
One of the most important things-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... um, in addition to being there for ourselves, right? So being a, um, a regulated presence, so regulating ourselves, um, can also be just being a, a witness to their experience, right? And being able to, to recognize and say, "Wow, I can see that, that... how that impacted you," and then letting them know that we love them.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? And that healing is possible.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that.
- 1:06:09 – 1:10:44
How To Heal From Trauma
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Burke Harris, if the person listening-
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm
- MRMel Robbins
... takes just one action based on all of the wisdom and love and buffering that you've poured into us by being here today with us, what do you think the most important thing to do is?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
I think the thing that enables all of this is really having the courage-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... to look and say, "Do I have some ACEs?" Right? "And is that showing up in my life right now?" And then go from there and say, "Okay, well, if that's the case, what does that mean about how I show up for myself? What kind of supports do I need so that I can be well-supported?"
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Right? And then so that I can, um, show up for the people in my life.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Burke Harris, what are your parting words?
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm. Well, because I am a super public health nerd-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
... I will say, um, I believe infrastructure is love in action.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
What we build, the systems that we build in our personal lives for ourselves, whether it is, um, connecting to a strong group of friends who we feel safe with, right? But building it ahead of time-And not waiting for the wheels to fall off the cart. That would be like one of the most important things.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, Dr. Burke Harris, thank you, thank you, thank you. You are a global treasure.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
I am so appreciative of the time that you took to come here and to teach everything and share everything that you did with us, and I cannot wait to see how this one conversation creates a positive wave of change in people's lives around the world.
- NHDr. Nadine Burke Harris
Mel, it has been my pleasure, my joy. Thank you so much.
- MRMel Robbins
And I also wanna thank you. Thank you for making the time and spending time listening to something that not only might have rocked your world, but I hope it opened your eyes and it opened your heart to a completely different possibility. And I love the fact that Dr. Burke Harris gave us a research-backed playbook that you can follow so that you can start to do the healing that you deserve, so that you can start to buffer yourself now, so that you can use this I Am Here method to start with yourself. And there's no doubt in my mind, I believer, that it begins with the systems you put in place for yourself, for your family, for community. And from there, by taking care of yourself, I think we actually take care of improving the world. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And one way that I can prove that is you took the time to listen to this. And if you follow what Dr. Burke Harris said, you will create a better life. All righty, I will see you in the very next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play. And thank you for watching all the way to the end on YouTube. Thank you for being generous and sharing this with people in your life, people who you know have more potential, but they keep getting in their own way. I hope this episode brought you not only science and frameworks, but a lot more compassion about the fact that a lot of people are stuck in biological and neurological patterns. So thank you for sharing this as a life-changing resource, and thank you for investing the time in watching it for yourself. I know you wanna know what video to watch next, but before we do that, I'm gonna recommend something. I just wanna ask you, if that subscribe button is lit up, would you please hit subscribe? It's free. It is the fastest way for you to support me and the team here at The Mel Robbins Podcast and world-renowned experts like Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, who are showing up here on YouTube to support you in creating a better life. That way you don't miss a thing, it tells us you love what we're doing, and it's one simple thing that you can do to say, "Job well done. I appreciate it." So thanks for doing that. And that video that you want, it's right here, and I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play.
Episode duration: 1:10:46
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