The Mel Robbins PodcastFeeling Used? 5 Ways to Take Your Power Back | The Mel Robbins Podcast
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125 min read · 24,981 words- 0:00 – 2:37
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
(ticking sound) I don't know what is in the air, but wow, you guys are flooding melrobbins.com and the DMs with questions about whether or not you're getting used. There is a big difference between being used by somebody and being in a situation where somebody is used to the situation. I've got five takeaways that I'm gonna share with you, and the first one is this. (instrumental music) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to an extremely useful episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast. I don't know what is in the air, but wow, you guys are flooding melrobbins.com and the DMs with questions about whether or not you're getting used, and I'm noticing a theme that as you listen to more and more episodes of The Mel Robbins Podcast, something is coming alive inside you, and you're realizing that there are changes that you want to make, that there is a version of you, uh, that you wanna bring forth, that there's a higher or truer or more empowered you. And as you start to make the changes, you start to notice, hmm, other people around me are not changing, and, um, starting to feel like maybe I'm getting a little used. And so today, you are going to hear from two listeners who are struggling with this topic, am I getting used, and more importantly, what do I do about it if I think I am? And I wanna just say something about this in case you're new. Uh, welcome, by the way. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times best-selling author and one of, uh, the world's leading experts on habits and motivation and change, and I do believe that inside all of us, there is this higher calling. There is a truer version of you that is longing to come forth, and if you're starting to tap into that for yourself, you'll notice that you get impatient with people around you who are not. You start to notice people who are not growing the way that you are growing, and that's normal, and today, we're gonna unpack the topic of how do I know if I'm getting used and what do I do about it if I am? And we're gonna start that process with a question from
- 2:37 – 4:14
Do you have people in your life who rely on you a little too much?
- MRMel Robbins
a listener named Crystal.
- CRCrystal
Hey, Mel, it's Crystal, and I have a big question: how to know if you're being used. I have two adult siblings that have always lived with me. One has been unemployed for more than three years. Last week, my working sibling was placed on PIP. I've always been the big breadwinner, and they and my mom all lived in my home. My mom passed away four years ago. It's becoming increasingly difficult to motivate them and/or get them to understand the weight of responsibility is on me. I'm beginning to think they don't care and are enjoying the stress-free lifestyle they've become accustomed to, or they don't understand because they've never had this type of responsibility. I'm growing tired of carrying all the obligation, accountability, and responsibility. When are they going to grow up and be equal contributors or move out? Thanks for any advice. This is really eating up bandwidth in my head. I will add we had a horrendous childhood and largely why we all stayed together. There is safety in numbers, and we had to have a united front against a very abusive father and ex-husband. He abused us all well into adulthood. Thanks for any insight. Thanks for all you do.
- MRMel Robbins
Crystal, thank you for that question, and thank you for the detail that you provided in the end. I think that's really relevant to how you handle this and how you think about the situation that you're in, okay? So, I've got five takeaways that I'm gonna share with you, and the first one is this:
- 4:14 – 7:38
Maybe you’re being used or maybe it’s this instead.
- MRMel Robbins
there is a big difference between being used by somebody and being in a situation where somebody is used to the situation. Does that make sense? I'm gonna unpack this a bit 'cause I think it's really, really important. When you're being used, that's a situation where somebody is intentionally using you or taking advantage of a situation to their benefit. They know they're doing it. For example, um, if you're, uh, in a job, and you've basically phoned it in, and you're only staying there because you want the money, but you're not actually doing what's expected of you, you are using your employer. When you sneak stuff from your roommate's side of the refrigerator, you're using them. When you intentionally do something like, um, invite yourself to somebody's house even though you don't like them, but they have a great pool and it's a nice weekend, but you are not that great of a guest or you don't real- you know, you gossip about them, y- you're using them. That situation is very different than what I think you're in, Crystal, which is you're in a situation where the people around you are used to the situation. They've grown accustomed to it. They are comfortable in it, and what's happened is you're now not comfortable with the situation, but they're just used to it, and so I think it's important for you, Crystal, to anchor there, and as you are listening to me unpack all of these takeaways, I want you to apply this to your situation. Are you in a situation where you're being used because somebody's leading you on?... but deep down, they just want sex. And yet, they're telling you that this is more, but they just want sex. That's a situation where you're being used. Or are you in a situation like Crystal, where the situation's been like this for a while and everybody's kind of used to it, but you're just sick of it, so you now wanna change it? And the details, Crystal, in your particular situation, matter, because you guys are used to living together. You guys are used to being under the same roof. You said that you've been doing this for a long time, your mom used to live with you, and that there's safety in numbers. And so, I believe what's happened is that you are just tired of the situation the way that it is. And that means that you are going to be the one that changes it. Because if everybody else is used to it and they're comfortable in it, they have no motivation or no interest in changing it. Why would they? It's working for them. It's just not working for you, and that's okay. So, the second takeaway. You asked the question, "When are my siblings gonna grow up? When are they gonna realize I'm frustrated? When are they gon-" Never. They are never gonna grow up. Why? Because they're comfortable. They're used to this. They're used to you being in charge. You've always been in charge. You've always been the breadwinner, you said as much. And so, they're not going to grow up, and that's okay, everybody. That's okay.
- 7:38 – 10:15
Is it time for you to be the parent now?
- MRMel Robbins
That means that you are gonna have to be the grown-up and you're going to have to parent, and I'm gonna get to that. I'm gonna tell you exactly what to do when you're in a situation where you're trying to make the people around you level up and help you change the situation. I also wanna say, for your sake, Crystal, and for anybody else, that, you know, it sounds like you guys are all so struggling with trauma and PTSD. And so, I know that that's also why you haven't shaken things up. If all three of you experienced horrific abuse, which you just said that you did, then you also have the added issue of people maybe not having healed from that trauma, and maybe not being as proactive or as motivated or as self-sufficient as they could be. There was another detail in what Crystal said. She said PPI. What does that mean, everybody? It means a performance improvement plan. What that basically means is you're fucking up at work and your bosses have sat you down, and they have said, "Your work is not satisfactory, and we are going to put you on a PIP, a performance improvement plan," which is very embarrassing. It's very confronting. I- I'm not making excuses for the sibling, I'm just trying to explain the psychology here of why they're not growing up and why they've gotten very comfortable with very low self-motivating standards. And you're now in this framework at work where you're being measured, and if you don't measure up, your ass is fired. A performance, uh, improvement plan can be a really good thing, because it means that they are providing a pathway for you to be able to excel, which means they believe that you can. But oftentimes, when people are set up with a PIP, they feel so ashamed and embarrassed that they just quietly quit. They feel like the writing's on the wall. They feel unmotivated and self-conscious. 90% of people, when they get put on a performance improvement plan, leave the job. Whoa. It kind of makes sense, because you feel like you've been called out and you're embarrassed. And so, it's really important how you set up a performance improvement plan, because if it's literally like, "You suck and you're gonna get fired unless you do these things," who wants to stay at that job? But if you set it up using what is called the 19-word magic sentence,
- 10:15 – 14:00
This is how to get your entire family on the same page.
- MRMel Robbins
this is something that's been studied at, like, Yale and Stanford. When you say to somebody, "I have high expectations of this team and I think you are capable of achieving them, which is why I'm gonna put you on a performance improvement plan so that you know what's expected, and I believe you can achieve this. This is the path forward for success for you." That is a way that makes you want to play the game. And so, Crystal, ironically, we're gonna put your family, your siblings on a performance improvement plan, and we're gonna set it up the right way, because since it's your family, you can talk about your feelings, and you can talk about your need to feel support, and you can talk about, um, these simple things that they can do that would make a huge difference in this living arrangement and in their lives and in your life, so it can be, like, a really positive thing that you're gonna do. So, takeaway so far. You're either being used because it's conscious and intentional, or you're just in a situation where people are used to what's going on and they're not motivated to change it like you are. When will other people grow up and realize this? Never. You gotta be the adult in this situation if you wanna change it, because it's your life, it's your happiness. By the way, it's also your house and it's your responsibility to lead the change that you wanna see, always. Another takeaway that I want you to have is, when you're around people that, um, are not motivated to change their lives, you're probably dealing with what psychologists call learned helplessness. Now, learned helplessness was first coined in 1965 by a very famous psychologist after doing these really awful experiments with dogs. I'm not even gonna explain the experiments. But basically, what learned helplessness is, is it's when you receive a series of setbacks or you are experiencing a lot of pain.... and you basically give up. You decide that there's nothing that you can do, it is what it is, and you just survive and try to cope through the pain and the situation. And it's the difference between being a person who is pessimistic, that you feel like nothing's ever gonna change, you're never gonna be good enough, why even bother, boss never likes my work, or I never do well at work, or my sister already takes care of things and I'm never gonna amount up to anything, versus having an optimistic point of view. And optimism, realistic optimism, is just the belief that through your own actions and through your own attitude, you can make a positive dent in any situation, that your effort is always worth it, that trying is always worth it, that growth is available to you. And so, I say this because when you're surrounded by people that have this sense that nothing they do matters, it just creates complacency and fear. And there's one thing that makes a difference when you're in this situation, and Crystal, I think that's the situation that you're in. You guys have past trauma. The situation has always been that you always take care of everything. Now you've got one of your siblings who's on a performance plan, so they're feeling kind of kicked down to the ground, and I would imagine there is this sense of pessimism. There is this sense of, "I'm just used to life not being easy." And that's where you can come in, and this is the fourth takeaway. You ready?
- 14:00 – 17:01
Your siblings will understand your expectations if you do this.
- MRMel Robbins
They need goals. They need goals set by you, goals for how they are supposed to show up. You see, they don't know the path forward. They don't know how it's supposed to look. You do, because you want the situation to be different, and so it's on you to set what are called SMART goals. For those of you who have not heard about SMART goals, we will link to the article that was written in 1981 where three researchers came up with the idea of SMART goals in the context of leadership and business, but SMART goals is a very simple and effective way to think about setting goals for yourself or other people. SMART stands for specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and timely. And so here's how this is gonna work with your siblings. I want you to think about how the situation could be different. Put on an optimistic hat, and now we're gonna paint a picture of what it would look like in the day-to-day living situation so that you feel supported, because it's not just about the money. Are they doing anything around the house? Are they cooking? Are they caring for the yard? When it snows, do they shovel? Are they taking the trash out on Mondays? Are they making their beds in the morning? Like, what is it that would make you feel as though the dynamic has shifted, that everybody's leveled up in their own achievable way, and those actions make you feel a shift, okay? And so, let's go back to SMART. Specific. What are specific goals you could set? And those goals might look like you need to make your bed every morning. Those goals might look like, uh, I'm gonna make a, uh, grocery list, and every Tuesday so-and-so's gonna go to the grocery store. Uh, I'm gonna create a schedule for who's cooking and who's doing dishes, and since you guys aren't contributing financially, that's what you're gonna do. I know I'm being very kind of, like, annoyingly, um, detailed here, and maybe in a really, um, condescending way. I don't mean to be. I'm trying to say that because people don't know what you want, which is what you should assume, and you're the one who wants the situation to be different, you have to get crystal clear, black and white, granular, meaning specific, I gotta be able to measure it, it's gotta be broken down so that your siblings can achieve it, it's gotta be realistic, and it's gotta be timely, meaning do it on a Tuesday, do it on a Wednesday, every weekend I expect this, because that is how you lay a path forward for somebody who is in a hole to be successful. So, the final piece, the fifth takeaway is this:
- 17:01 – 21:16
Do this to make people feel that they’re doing the right thing.
- MRMel Robbins
when you see your siblings doing those actions, when you see them checking the boxes, when you see them making their bed, when you see them spending an hour every day looking for a job, or you see them checking in with you for 10 minutes every night about how work went today, when you see those actions happening, you gotta cheer for them, because what you're trying to do is you're trying to create an environment where somebody knows that you believe in them, they know what your expectations are, they know the defined achievable steps that they can take in order to make you happy, and then when they do those things, you gotta, you gotta cheer for them. You gotta say, "Thank you." You gotta say, "I appreciate you." And why this is so important is because you're not dealing with a situation, Crystal, where you're getting used. You're in a situation where you're trying to level up your siblings, and you're trying to do it when there's issues like generational trauma and hopelessness.... and patterns in place, and a dynamic between all of you, which means you gotta get super intentional about what the new game looks like, you gotta define it, and then like an awesome coach always does, you gotta cheer for your players as they are in that game. That's how you do this, um, and I know you can do it because I can just tell based on your voice that you are somebody who is a very matter of fact, professional, successful, awesome person, which is why this is frustrating, because we all think that everybody thinks like us. We all think that all those things that you think are obvious, "Why do you put your stuff on the floor? Why don't you just let the dog out? Why do you leave the dead flowers in the vase on the counter? Wh- don't you just..." We think it's obvious. It's not obvious to everybody, but you can make it obvious and you can make it a game worth playing, and don't forget, you get to talk about your feelings: "Guys, I love you, but I feel frustrated and I'm starting to feel a little used and I'm starting to feel very sad because I see you guys just coasting in life, and I believe that there's something more for you, and so here's my request. If you're gonna continue to live with me, and I want you to, I need you to show up differently, and here is what I need from you. And I know you can achieve this, it would make a huge difference for me, and if you don't think you can do that, then maybe it's come to the point where we can't live together, but I need this support from you guys." And you might be surprised at how they show up if you frame it in the support that you need from them. It would probably feel really good to know that I could actually do something that my sister would appreciate and feel supported by, instead of feeling like the one that's not successful. So, that's another way to look at it, but, gosh, I really appreciate your question, so thank you. All right, so that's question number one, but don't you dare go anywhere, because coming up I'm gonna be coaching a listener of this podcast live, her name is Brooke, and Brooke's boyfriend has not worked for two years and she's feeling used and she has no idea how to bring this up with him, because she wants him to get a job, she wants things to change but she's scared he's gonna leave. We got all that coming up next. Welcome back. Uh, I'm Mel Robbins. Today we're talking about what you do when you are feeling used and how you can inspire people around you to level up the game of life without trying to fix 'em, and I can't wait to jump in with this next listener. Her name is Brooke. She wrote to me because her boyfriend hasn't worked in two years, and honestly she's tired of it, so let's get Brooke on the line. Brooke, hi. Thank you for being here.
- BRBrooke
Thanks for having me.
- MRMel Robbins
Of course.
- 21:16 – 34:42
Have a partner that isn’t pulling their weight? You need to hear this.
- MRMel Robbins
So tell me your... You're so cute. I love your glasses.
- BRBrooke
(laughs) Oh, thank you. I like yours too.
- MRMel Robbins
And the photos behind you are so cool.
- BRBrooke
Oh, thank you. That's actually of my best friend. She just passed away, um, a-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- BRBrooke
... a little over a year ago.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, that sucks.
- BRBrooke
I know, it really does.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. How can I help you?
- BRBrooke
So, um, I just would love your advice on this. I have a boyfriend whom I love a lot for many reasons, um, but he hasn't worked in almost two years. Um, he lives with me and isn't contributing financially, and it feels... He doesn't see a problem with it. Uh, when I bring up getting a job, he gets defensive and often leads to not only a conversation that ends up not being productive, but he becomes more distant. He doesn't have a close relationship with his friends and family. I am his closest person in his life, um, and I have learned that this is- makes it really difficult to persuade him or encourage him. I want to be supportive and allow him to have his own process of change, but it's frustrating because I'm paying for everything and, um, I also feel like I can't fully trust him and he's turning away from me. I'm not sure if he's using me or he's going to become what I feel he's capable of becoming, which is a greater version of himself, and find a job and be better. Um, this relationship feels toxic but also feels, you know, unique, but this is the greatest issue that I'm having right now and I just don't know how to go about it.
- MRMel Robbins
Gotcha. So, that was great, and now I want you to just talk to me and tell me what's going on, like a friend. Okay? So what's going on, Brooke?
- BRBrooke
Well, actually right now I've been finding that, you know, besides the work situation, we have been getting, you know... Our relationship has not felt as toxic, um, we haven't been fighting, we've been getting along, um, I just don't bring it up. I don't bring up the- him not working as much because it does lead to friction. I can immediately see his uncomfortability in it and he just kind of shuts down and gets defensive, so I kind of leave it alone but I- I can't keep leaving it alone, like, I really feel it's inappropriate that this is what's going on.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. How long have you... What- how long... D- does he know you're talking to me?
- BRBrooke
He does. He- I- I made him leave the house, so he couldn't hear what was going on. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) And how did he feel about you talking to me?
- BRBrooke
Good. Um, he's- was supportive. I didn't go into detail about what it was about. Um, he knows I listen to your podcast all the time though, and I make him listen to it too, or I'll like sneak it on when like I'm driving in the car, because that's usually when I listen to you anyways. Um, I just... Me and my sister were just talking about this the other day. I feel like with, you know, listening to your podcast, I feel like I am realizing things that I need to change and I'm doing it, but no one else around me in everyday life is doing the same things, so I'm trying to be patient and like using different tools, and she was laughing, she's like, "I feel the same way." Like it's- it's so hard to, you know, you want to just like...... show, like put you in everybody's face and like get them to understand it and feel the same way and change. But, you know, that's not always what happens.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I want to get some facts. So how long have you been with your boyfriend?
- BRBrooke
Just about three years.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. And for how long has he been unemployed?
- BRBrooke
It's going on two years now. I, um, it was January of last year that he officially stopped working completely, um, and when he, he was working and he kind of wasn't doing that great. Like he was going there late and his boss was getting frustrated with him, and then I think his boss actually ended up letting him go.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BRBrooke
And he just hasn't been motivated to do anything since. Um, he was incarcerated for s- eight years as well and I don't know what that's like, and he does say a lot of times that he believes that that could have something to do with where he's at in his life and he gets very frustrated with that.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm sure.
- BRBrooke
I don't know how to help him in that way at all. I, I don't... I want to be supportive but I also need support too.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Yes, you do. You deserve support. And I'm glad you reached out for help, and there's a couple of things that I want to say right off the bat because I'm going to ask a few more details.
- BRBrooke
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
It's important for you to know that in the beginning of my career, I worked for Legal Aid and I was a criminal defense attorney. And so, I represented, in the early parts of my career, people like your boyfriend who were either accused of or convicted of crimes, and I believe that once somebody has served their sentence, we need to do a much better job as a society in rehabilitating, in empowering, and in welcoming people back into society.
- BRBrooke
I agree.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I'm glad that you shared with me that he did spend eight years incarcerated because there is no question that the re-entry into life outside of the jail system is very jarring, traumatic, isolating. And one of the things that I know a lot of people that I represented really struggled with is not only the rejection and the scrutiny that you face when you get out, and in some states, the laws that make it very, very difficult for you to truly find meaningful work, is that the structure of being incarcerated is completely removed. And even though it is horrendous to experience any time behind bars, there is this kind of certainty that you come to rely on in terms of the day-to-day schedule. And so for somebody like your boyfriend to get fired and lose that day-to-day structure, it does not surprise me at all that he has spiraled mentally, that he has not, um, got any motivation, and that this has been a very challenging situation for you to watch as well. And so I'm br- saying that because I want you to know that I'm bringing a level of, not first-hand experience, but having either represented or counseled or, uh, kind of coached people that are in this exact situation, this is more complex than say Christopher Robins, my husband, losing his job, because of the added shame that you feel, the added discrimination that he's probably experiencing when he goes in to try to find a job. And, um, was he in jail for, um, a felony or a... Well, it must have been a felony because it was eight years. Was it a violent crime or was it more of that sort of white-collar, as they say, crime of financial fraud, that kind of stuff?
- BRBrooke
Well, it was, it was pretty, um, it... I guess you could say they're violent. It's, it was armed robbery. It was a young kid.
- 34:42 – 39:08
This is how you start a conversation when it’s time to set boundaries.
- MRMel Robbins
say, "I can't do the work for you, but it is breaking my heart to watch you struggle, and to, in my opinion, not see you taking the proactive steps to change this. And so, I have new boundaries that I need to express for myself, and that is if this relationship's going to work, you must go to therapy once a week for three months, because I believe that the reason why you're not flourishing is because you have PTSD from being incarcerated, or you are struggling with depression, and if I don't see you take the proactive steps of going to counseling for the next three months, once a week, then this is not gonna work and you're gonna have to move out. I will pay for it, but you have to be willing to meet me halfway, because I can't stand by and watch somebody I love self-destructing, and I've given you two years to try to figure it out on your own, and what your behavior has communicated to me is that you're not capable of doing this on your own. And that's okay. You need a ladder to help you climb out of this hole. So I'm going to tell you what that ladder is." I personally agree with you, I think it is therapy, but I don't wanna shove that down your throat, Brooke. So what is one behavior change that you could say to him, "I can't make you do it-I am not going to force you to do it, I'm not going to guilt you into doing it. I'm just going to express a very clear boundary. We are not going to be together if you don't do th- this thing.
- BRBrooke
I don't really know. I guess I would like to see him, you know, seeking at least one thing that will be the start of helping him. And I'm not sure what the first step would be, whether it is to seek some, you know, professional help.
- MRMel Robbins
I think you do know. I think you do know.
- BRBrooke
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Tell me, what is it? See, because here's the thing, we all make the mistake of being like, "I want you to start working toward it," that's not specific. You actually have to create a structured thing that he needs to check the box on, because while he won't do it for himself, the relationship is important to him, so he will do it for you because you have expressed this boundary.
- BRBrooke
I don't know if that's true or not, but...
- MRMel Robbins
What do you mean you don't know if it's true or not?
- BRBrooke
That's where the toxic part comes in, because honestly, like, um, I just feel like when we have conversations, like, 'cause I have kind of approached this similarly to him before, and he'll say, like, "Well, this is wha-" 'cause we had broken up, uh, for a short time recently, um...
- MRMel Robbins
Did he leave and pack up and leave the house?
- BRBrooke
Well, it took him a while to pack up until I forced him out, but, and then I regretted it, and, you know-
- MRMel Robbins
Why did you regret it?
- BRBrooke
Because I, of my own toxic traits, I, you know, I want him back. I don't wanna be alone, and I, you know, started getting scared 'cause, you know, he was talking to somebody else and it just, you know, really freaked me out. And I do feel like I love him, I just, I don't know, and then he throws it in my face 'cause like, you know, he came back and sometimes he'll be like, "Well, this is..." You know, "I don't know. I need to figure myself out. I told you I need to work on myself," but he's not working on himself. That's not what that means. When, and when we broke up he wasn't working on himself, he was trying to get into another relationship with somebody who's 10 years younger than him, and, you know, he was not ever going... You know, his dad lives just shortly down the road, and that's where he was supposed to be re- like residing, and he wasn't. He was, like, out all the time. Wasn't sleeping hardly. You know, he was just, he was really a mess, and then showing up here unannounced and gi- you know, breaking my heart over again, and, and being callous and mean, and we've fi-
- MRMel Robbins
Brooke.
- BRBrooke
I know, this is bad. This is bad, Mom.
- MRMel Robbins
No, Brooke.
- BRBrooke
(laughs)
- 39:08 – 40:00
In a toxic partnered relationship? This is the truth bomb you need.
- BRBrooke
- MRMel Robbins
He's not breaking your heart. You're breaking your heart. Why does that make you emotional?
- BRBrooke
'Cause I know that's true. I feel like I've abandoned myself, and, you know, I, I've listened to one of your podcasts about the attachment theories, and I'm definitely, (sniffs) um, the anxiety version of those that... You know, he's the avoidant and, you know, I say sorry a million times, and I just, like, want... You know, I just feel like I, you know, need him to love me, and I've been just not being very nice to myself, you know, in the process of that.
- MRMel Robbins
When it becomes
- 40:00 – 44:45
Has it become more important to be loved than to love yourself?
- MRMel Robbins
more important for somebody else to love you than it is for you to love yourself, you're in a really toxic dynamic, and I wanna commend you on something. I think deep down, you know this, and what actually scares you is you're starting to tap back into your self-worth and realize that you're better than this dynamic, and you deserve better than this dynamic. And it scares you because you've never been in a relationship with yourself or with somebody else where there's been a healthy dynamic. And I would imagine, I'm willing to guess, that you are attracted to men who are not available because this is what was present in your childhood. Is that true?
- BRBrooke
I'm not sure exactly. I, I have looked into that, and I, I'm sure that it is.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, which one of your parents do you, uh, chase more in terms of wanting affection, approval?
- BRBrooke
My mother.
- MRMel Robbins
And did she feel like she wasn't that available?
- BRBrooke
Yeah. Yeah, she did. Like, she was there, and, but she, you know, is kind of like me as a mom right now, which I feel guilty about, but, you know, she kind of c- cared more about her shows, and she, you know, when, you know, my parents got a divorce, uh, she really wasn't pre- like, emotionally present, and she was always tougher with her words. My dad actually had left the relationship, but he, you know, gives me the world now, you know, and I just am still trying to, like, get that relationship back with my mom. And I hate to say that because she'll probably watch this, and she's been really trying to, you know, express to me lately, like, that she's sorry that that's happening again now, because she's going through her own personal struggles, and right now, personally, I'm not affected by that. I do understand that.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. Well-
- BRBrooke
I'm an adult now, and I see things differently, and I love her dearly, and she's doing a marvelous job.
- MRMel Robbins
I think... How is the dynamic with your boyfriend similar to what it was like when your mom wasn't available?
- BRBrooke
I mean, I guess I can o- only really talk about how I feel with how it is currently 'cause I don't know, but I just, with, with my boyfriend, I feel like I'm constantly just trying to be...So great. And then he, he's gonna turn around and be like, "Oh, wow, you're so great, and like I love you." You know? Like, "You're so great. I see what you did, and I see how great you are to me, and I see you in general, and I love you." You know? And I just feel like I'm constantly just trying to do that. You know?
- MRMel Robbins
You are. That's why it's not enough. You're in a relationship where you're chasing somebody who is not available, and who resents you for what you need, and who is in so much pain and in such a hole that he can't possibly give you what you need right now. And you just keep telling yourself, so many of us fall into this trap, "Okay, well if I just try harder, I just do this or I just do the other thing, then it's gonna be okay and then he's gonna be happy, and then he's gonna love me, and then it's gonna be good, and then he's not gonna want that woman who's 10 years younger and you probably know that he slept with her anyway while you guys were broken up, and it's technically a broken up so it didn't really matter and even though it breaks your heart, you don't really talk about it." Is this the life that you want?
- BRBrooke
No. It's not.
- MRMel Robbins
And-
- BRBrooke
And life is too short. It's just too short, and I wanna f- you know, it's just, it's too short.
- MRMel Robbins
I see the photos of your best friend on the wall behind you. What was her name?
- BRBrooke
Molly. (sniffs)
- MRMel Robbins
And what did she die of?
- BRBrooke
An overdose.
- MRMel Robbins
What would Molly tell you? Right now.
- BRBrooke
She always told me to, like, to get out of this relationship, and that I was, you know, I deserved so much better. It's just so confusing and I just don't know if I'm capable of it.
- MRMel Robbins
It's not confusing.
- BRBrooke
I don't-
- MRMel Robbins
It's not confusing at all. You either deserve better or you think you don't. Brooke, which is it?
- BRBrooke
I deserve better. (sniffs)
- MRMel Robbins
And if you are acting, let's just... I want you to
- 44:45 – 48:12
Let me coach you through this exercise to help you change your future.
- MRMel Robbins
close your eyes. Okay? Close your eyes. And together we're gonna travel forward in your mind two years. So two years from now, it's a beautiful spring day, this relationship is behind you, or not. You get to choose. It is the future you, and you have spent two years, Brooke, really healing yourself, putting yourself first, and taking actions every single day that show you that you believe you deserve the best, that you love yourself, and that your heart is worth protecting, that you come first. Tell me what your life looks like. You're waking up, what does life look like for the future Brooke two years from now?
- BRBrooke
I have no idea, Mel. Oh my gosh, I don't even know. I can't even picture that.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, you do. Come on, let's picture it together. Imagine that I'm there with you.
- BRBrooke
I feel like I would feel a lot lighter, first of all.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- BRBrooke
I would wake up a lot earlier and not feel like I really, I have something to look forward to. Um...
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- BRBrooke
I would probably a lot, be a lot more successful in my career and, ah, I don't know.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, you do.
- BRBrooke
I would just be happy and proud of myself, I feel.
- MRMel Robbins
What do you see yourself doing that you're not doing now, that makes you proud?
- BRBrooke
I would be more present with my son.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- BRBrooke
And I would probably be more present with my friends that I have now that I, you know, don't really engage in as much. Um, sometimes, um, I, I would show up more for myself.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that look like? Give me an example of how you're not showing up for yourself right now.
- BRBrooke
I would have days where I like, just like, feel lazy and lay in bed all day and binge-watch television shows to escape (laughs) from my life. I don't know. I feel that's one thing I would definitely be doing, not doing. I don't know. I-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, you do. Stop saying you don't know.
- BRBrooke
I feel like-
- MRMel Robbins
You just painted a very clear picture. Can I tell you what you just reflected back?
- BRBrooke
Yes. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
You'd get up earlier. You would be more present with your son. You would not lay in bed all day and waste the day binge-watching TV. You would be more successful. You would be proud of yourself, and you would probably wake up and have a day full of things that you were doing, whether it was volunteering or going to do something with your son, or spending time with those friends that you don't spend time with right now because you spend all your time trying to fix this guy that doesn't wanna be fixed. Fixing him will not fix you.
- 48:12 – 51:45
Another truth bomb you need to hear today, no matter what you’re doing.
- MRMel Robbins
You are perfect and lovable exactly how you are, and you deserve to have somebody in your life that sees that and that wants to grow with you. And I can't do this for you. I can tell you that w- if you break up with him, he will find somebody else, because he needs it, and only you can decide, Brooke, whether or not you deserve to put yourself first. And I guarantee, Molly is sitting there going, "Girl, break up with him."And what you don't know, because you've never experienced this, is will I be able to put myself first? Will I be okay if I'm alone? And here's my answer to that: You're alone right now. Just because you have a man living in your house, who you're paying for, doesn't mean you're in a relationship. You are lonely, you do not see your friends, you have isolated yourself, and you have put all of your worth into this guy somehow transforming and giving you something he doesn't have to give right now. And I can tell you that with certainty because his actions demonstrate that.
- BRBrooke
I agree. I agree 100%.
- MRMel Robbins
So, what do you see as the next right step?
- BRBrooke
I would probably want to approach it again with him just to see... I, I, I just, I get so confused 'cause, like, he is, he does do some kind, loving things, so I wanna approach this again with him maybe.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- BRBrooke
I think I wanna, you know, tell him, like these, I wanna set that boundary and make it real.
- MRMel Robbins
Let's role play. I'm gonna be him. What's his name?
- BRBrooke
Adam.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- BRBrooke
All right. Uh, that's a good-
- MRMel Robbins
All right, you ready?
- BRBrooke
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
All right. So, how did that thing go with Mel? Did she tell you to break up with me?
- BRBrooke
Yep, she did. (laughs) No, I'm just kidding.
- MRMel Robbins
I knew it. I knew that bitch was gonna do that.
- BRBrooke
(laughs) Um, I don't know. I don't know how to do this, Mel. I'm so sorry. You're go- you're probably not gonna wanna air this. This is terrible.
- MRMel Robbins
This is not about whether it's good or bad. You and I are practicing.
- BRBrooke
Okay, I just, I just, I feel so incapable-
- MRMel Robbins
You feel what?
- BRBrooke
... of everything. Ugh.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, do you know how you change that? You try. You have to stop letting the feeling dictate what you do. You have to visualize a happier, more confident Brooke and let her guide you right now. And it's okay to write it down and read it to him.
- BRBrooke
That's probably what I would have to do.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, let's rehearse this. I'm, I'm Adam. Let's go. What is the boundary?
- 51:45 – 54:05
Listen to Brooke set a courageous boundary for the first time.
- MRMel Robbins
- BRBrooke
I love you, first and foremost. Um, I just feel that I can't sit here anymore and watch you not be your greatest self. I, I know that you are capable and have done some very amazing things, and I feel you're not showing up right now as that version of yourself for yourself and/or for me. And I want to be in this relationship. I, it means very much to me, but I am struggling with you not being a part of this with me together. I feel we aren't a team right now because of whatever it is that you are going through that's allowing for you to be this... See, I say a lot of words. I say a lot of words. Is this going okay?
- MRMel Robbins
I think you're doing fantastic. Stop-
- BRBrooke
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Just keep talking from your heart. What is, tell, tell me... "Well, I, I get that. So, but what do I need to do? What do you mean? What's happening?"
- BRBrooke
I would really like for you to find a job and start-
- MRMel Robbins
I've been looking for a job.
- BRBrooke
Where have you been looking for a job at?
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, uh, I'm applying online.
- BRBrooke
Oh, okay. Well, have you had anybody-
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- BRBrooke
... reach out to you? Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
No. No.
- BRBrooke
Then what can you do about that then? Like, what is it that you can do to put yourself in a position where that's... I don't know what to say. I feel like it's something like that. Oh my gosh. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I'll tell you why it kind of went off the rails.
- BRBrooke
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Because looking for a job is not something specific.
- BRBrooke
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
And he's been doing it for two years, and it has not worked.
- BRBrooke
Right, or he does-
- MRMel Robbins
Because-
- BRBrooke
... DoorDash, but he doesn't DoorDash you. You know, you could pick and choose your schedule in that job.
- MRMel Robbins
I think, why would you not tell him that he needs to go to therapy for three months once a week? Because that's what you actually want and that's what you think would make a difference.
- BRBrooke
That's, w- Yeah, I was gonna say that first. I really was, and I just, I'm scared to
- 54:05 – 56:41
Keep little ears away, because this is what tough f’n love sounds like.
- BRBrooke
say that because I feel like it's not my right.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, then let's practice. Bullshit.
- BRBrooke
Like, I feel like-
- MRMel Robbins
Bullshit. It is your... Hold on a second, Brooke. You're paying the fucking bills.
- BRBrooke
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
He is living with you. You have let this slide for two fucking years, and I'm gonna tell you something else: Maybe he needs you to be stronger than he is. Maybe he needs you to say, "I see something better for you, and I'm not gonna fucking sit here and watch you flush your life down the toilet, and you clearly have bigger issues than I can help you with. So, you either get your fucking ass in therapy, and I will pay for it, and you're gonna go every week for three fucking months because you're worth it and you need somebody to help you sort out that bullshit in your head that you're telling yourself that's keeping you down and keeping you isolated from me and keeping you acting like this. There is a better man inside, and by God, I'm not gonna let my fucking son be influenced by somebody who will not pick himself up and do the work."If you can make it through jail for eight fucking years, you can go to a therapist's office-
- BRBrooke
Uh-huh.
- MRMel Robbins
... once a goddamn week while I pay for it. And you wanna know something else? I don't trust you, so I am going to drive you there. And if you're unwilling to do that, you don't deserve to be here with my son, and I am not going to stand here and watch you continue to spiral. I care so much about you that I am willing to say goodbye to you, but what I am not willing to do is sit here and watch you self-destruct. (pause) How's that feel?
- BRBrooke
Really great. I wanna be you. That was wonderful.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you have to get angry about, like, if, like, you perked up when I said your son.
- BRBrooke
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So what was it about the example that he is giving to your son that actually lit a fire under your ass, Brooke?
- BRBrooke
He doesn't, he doesn't... H- he's being influenced. That's, that's the male role in m- m- you know, he doesn't have a biological father, you know. He is, being around us all the time, he lives with me, and he is my world. His name's Oakley, too, by the way. I wanted-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh! How old is Oakley?
- BRBrooke
Eight.
- MRMel Robbins
This is pivotal years right now.
- BRBrooke
I know, it's-
- MRMel Robbins
Oakley is watching-
- BRBrooke
... the shit out of me.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, then fucking do something about it.
- BRBrooke
I have to. I really have to. I don't know why I allow myself-
- MRMel Robbins
And I'll tell you why.
- BRBrooke
... to do this, like, be this person.
- MRMel Robbins
I'll tell
- 56:41 – 1:20:55
Stop letting your patterns make choices for you and step up.
- MRMel Robbins
you why. I'll tell you why, honey, and this is where self-compassion comes in. None of what you're doing is a choice. You are stuck in old patterns based on your childhood. You're scared to death of people leaving you, and your feelings and your fears are making you so hesitant, and the other reason why this is not a choice is you deeply believe you're not worthy of love. And so, you don't know how to act as though you deserve it. And so, if you want to, quote, "be me", use me as an avatar, and when you start to get those feelings coming up in your body, like, "I can't do this," just be like, "What the fuck would Mel say?" Because here's... I'm not right or wrong, and this is your life, Brooke, so you gotta decide what's right for you, but I will tell you, if you stay in that feeling emotional space of, "I can't do this. I don't know what to say," (babbles) you're just gonna continue to have the same thing. But if you want something different, you gotta show up and act in a different way, and since you don't know how to do this for yourself, that's okay. That's okay. Your why becomes bigger than you. It's about your son. It's about being that fucking mama bear, and it's about saying both, "I love my son so much, and I love you, by the way, but I'm, I'm breaking the fucking chain in this dynamic right now. And since you can't do it, I'm gonna tell you what's required." Does your son deserve a man in his life that will go to therapy for three fucking months to get help?
- BRBrooke
Absolutely.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- BRBrooke
Well, I mean-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Yes.
- BRBrooke
... not that the person who ha- really probably deserves someone who doesn't have to go to therapy.
- MRMel Robbins
No, no, no. I, personally, I think we should all be in therapy.
- BRBrooke
Me, too.
- MRMel Robbins
There is nothing, but if you can afford it, it's the best fucking thing on the planet. You got somebody that is completely objective, listening to you go on and on, and then they give you strategies. In fact, if we all talked to a therapist every week, we wouldn't have the problems we have, because we'd be sorting through them and working on it and taking steps proactively to make ourselves happier and more fulfilled. Everybody deserves this. I wish it were universal that we all had access to this. So, it's not that he needs it, it's also that he'll benefit from it, and your son will benefit from the example, and you will benefit for sticking up for yourself. You have to remove the love piece from this. I'm serious. You're getting so caught up in the emotion of, "Does somebody love me? Am I worthy?" Bullshit. If this were your son, would you want him to go to therapy? Of course.
- BRBrooke
I have put him in therapy, too.
- MRMel Robbins
So, you get to say, Brooke, because you pay the bills, you get to say what happens next. "I love you. I'm not gonna stand for this. I love my son too much to continue for this dynamic, this broken dynamic, and you must see a therapist once a fucking week because it's the only thing I can measure. And if you're not willing to do that, this is never going to work, and you might as well move out." You've asked him for two fucking years to get a job. Do not ask him that. That's not working. What are your takeaways from this?
- BRBrooke
Well, first, I feel like you, you've painted a picture that I do feel in my soul very clearly for me to digest, and I do feel very much more confident in going in the direction of... I really like that we are going in the direction of the therapy as the ultimatum, because I believe that's the most appropriate approach. I'm going to do that. I feel confident in doing that. I feel confident in that for many reasons.
- MRMel Robbins
Can I say something that I think will make you feel better? Instead of the word ultimatum, you're giving him a choice. He makes the choice-You're telling him he has two choices. Choice one is accept the gift and the request that you get support once a week for the next three months, which I will pay for. And you could even add, "And we debrief and you share with me what you're unpacking so I can be a part of it and support you in it." And that's choice one. And choice two is, this doesn't work, because it hasn't for a long time. And so you have, you are empowering him to choose. That's what a boundary is. It's, it's your line. You know, I remember when Chris was really struggling and I finally said to him, "The doctor has recommended that you take medication for depression." And even though, you know, Chris leads men's retreats, and he's a hospice volunteer, and is in all this counseling and psychology and coaching, and never ever had any issue with me taking medication, the second he was like told he probably should do it, all of a sudden he thinks it means he's weak. And I did give him a choice. I'm like, "This is not gonna work if you don't try that medication for a year." And he got to make the choice. Same situation, I'm not gonna sit here and watch you self-destruct, and we have tried everything else, and it's clear that you need a ladder out of the hole that you're in.
- BRBrooke
Was he able to make his choice right away?
- MRMel Robbins
Um, no-
- BRBrooke
You know? Or did he have to ponder about it-
- MRMel Robbins
... uh, yeah, it took a week.
- BRBrooke
... an hour? (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
It took a week. And you can give him a deadline, but you're gonna have to hold him to it. How do you feel in the framing of it as you are presenting option A or option B?
- BRBrooke
I think that's, that, I feel good about that. I feel like it'll tell me my answer.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. Like if you ever want to know what somebody's actually committed to, close your ears and don't listen to a damn thing they say.
- BRBrooke
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
Watch what they do. That-
- BRBrooke
That part scares me a little bit, but I feel like it's time to put my big girl pants on and deal with whatever he chooses, because he does have the right, and I'm giving him, you know, the option to choose, and what he chooses is gonna tell me what I, you know, can invest in for any much more time, you know, 'cause my time's valuable.
- MRMel Robbins
That's right, Brooke. And here's, here's the avatar for you. You ready? You're having this conversation not as Brooke, but as Oakley's mother. And it's time you put Oakley first. He deserves more. He needs his mother. And this is a win for him either way, because he either sees his mother stand up and have the strength to support a man in getting into therapy and healing, and holding him to it, or he sees a mom who cares so much about him that she does not tolerate bullshit like this. And so if you go in as Mama Bear Brooke, and you're doing this for Oakley, because these are the pivotal years, right now, 8 to 14, right now, right now is what Oakley is going to learn about relationships and about self-respect and about boundaries and about what's okay and what's not okay, and it's a win-win either way, because he either sees you change a relationship and stick up for yourself, and it feels the love and the safety from you, or he sees the same thing.
- BRBrooke
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
I love you.
- BRBrooke
I love you too, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
I believe in you.
- BRBrooke
Thank you.
Episode duration: 1:20:56
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