How to Create a New Version of Yourself: Let Go of Past Mistakes & Regret with Sarah Jakes Roberts

Mel Robbins 0:00 I feel this energy.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 0:02 Mm.

Mel Robbins 0:02 (instrumental music plays) And this truth that comes through you. Like, it just gets me so choked up to be in the presence of somebody that has such a gift.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 0:11 Mm.

Mel Robbins 0:14 I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what you believe most of us need to hear and be reminded of.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 0:23 Most people underestimate how necessary their existence is in the world and as a result, assume a posture of resignation that leaves the world less than what it could be.

Mel Robbins 0:39 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 0:40 Our lives are not random. They are not coincidences. We were all given these lives to make the world better and I feel like most people underestimate how necessary they are and as a result, they don't take their healing seriously, they don't take their thought seriously. But if we truly ever tapped into the high value of our breath, it would change what we speak, it would change what we think, it would change how we show up in the world, and it would quite literally make the world a better place.

Mel Robbins 1:15 Oh. Sarah Jakes Roberts just gave you a gift. (clock ticking) (instrumental music plays) Hey, it's your friend Mel. There are gonna be times in your life when you wake up and wonder, "Have I messed it all up?" Periods in your life, you know, that just suck, where you've made a major mistake, you feel a lot of regret. Maybe you're still there mentally right now or maybe someone that you love is going through a really low period in their life. When you're struggling, it begs the question, can you really overcome any failure or any pain or regret or mistake that you've made in your life? And if I were to tell you that there's absolutely no mistake that will keep you from becoming who you're truly meant to be, would you actually believe me? Well, after today, you will because you're about to meet a remarkably inspiring person who has been knocked down over and over and over again and she knows the secret to getting back up, to finding your power even when you feel powerless. When you were little, you once thought anything was possible. This episode today will remind you it still is because there is nothing that you've done that will stand in the way of who you want to become. So if you're tired of regrets holding you back and if you're sick of beating yourself up over the mistakes that you've made, today you're gonna learn how to pick yourself back up and take that big old pile of leftovers from life and turn it into a five-star meal. You know, I always say no one's coming, but today someone special is here, the one and only Sarah Jakes Roberts. I am so excited to get to spend some time with you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 3:17 Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

Mel Robbins 3:19 So, I would love to have you start by talking directly to the person who's listening and share with them what they can expect to experience and learn from you today. Like, how might their life change if they take everything that you're about to share to heart?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 3:42 Mm. I would say today you are going to learn to rest in the truth of who you are, not just your hopes and dreams, the achievements and shiny things, but the things that have been hard and challenging. Today you're gonna find a way to rest in that, embrace it, accept it, and then allow it to propel you into a big beautiful future.

Mel Robbins 4:07 Oh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 4:08 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:09 I'm ready.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 4:10 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:10 Yeah. I- I- I would like that.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 4:12 Let's go. Let's do it. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 4:13 Let's go. And in order to go forward, I think oftentimes in life you gotta look back.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 4:18 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:18 And one of the things that I love the most about you, there's so many things that I love about you, but I love that whenever I watch you online or I tune into a sermon or I read something that you've written, I feel as though I have somebody walking by my side-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 4:36 Mm.

Mel Robbins 4:37 ... not somebody speaking down from above.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 4:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:40 And you have a story in terms of your past that I think a lot of people don't realize. And I would love for us to go back in time before we start talking about the wisdom that you have to share because there is so much that you've learned from those periods in your life. And so can you take us back to this moment in time? You are the daughter of a well-known megachurch pastor and something happens in your personal life.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 5:14 Yes.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 5:15 I got pregnant at 13 years old. I had my son at 14 years old, which I think is a staggering sentence no matter whose child you are. But the added complexity of my father being a prominent leader in faith I think further intensified the sense of shame, the sense of guilt that I had to wade through for about ten years. And I think also that was heightened by this fact that, like, though I have this family that is huge in the faith world, I never really felt like, like one of the good girls, one of the God girls, one of the church girls. And so in many ways it felt like this pregnancy just confirmed a preexisting insecurity that for some reason I didn't fit. And so my pregnancy is when I accepted, like, "Okay, this is not for me. I'm gonna figure life out on my own and I'm gonna let all the good church people do what good church people do and I'm just gonna figure everything else out."

Mel Robbins 6:12 Well, God had different plans, I think.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 6:13 He did. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 6:15 (laughs) Um, you know, when I think about the age 13-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 6:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 6:21 ... and 14, how did you even process something like that as such a young girl?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 6:27 I didn't. I thought the worst thing that was gonna happen was, like, I'm gonna get in trouble. Like, I'm gonna be grounded. Like, uh, we didn't even have cell phones at the time. Like, oh my gosh, they're gonna take the antenna out of the TV and take the phone cord out of the wall. Like, this is gonna be punishment. It wasn't until I saw their reaction that I began to realize that this is bigger than just you're in trouble. This is a life-altering experience that has created grief in our family, and I think that seeing their grief, seeing them struggle with what it means to have a child that's having a child made me realize that whatever just took place here has changed my life forever.

Mel Robbins 7:10 And it's interesting that you, in reflecting back, can say, "My immediate reaction was one of going, 'Oh, well, there are those kinda people over there that are the godly church people, I'm always gonna be over here.'"

Sarah Jakes Roberts 7:26 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 7:27 What was that journey like over those 10 years where you were wrestling-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 7:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 7:34 ... with that natural instinct that we all have that we separate? We don't see ourselves as connected to other people. We push back against the love that's coming at us or the support that's coming at us. How did you even move through that?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 7:49 Mm. Well, I think I... So, I started off comparison, so I'm not like them, so let me figure out who I am like.

Mel Robbins 7:56 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 7:56 And so I would say, "You know what? I kinda feel like I'm close to this kinda girl, so I'll be that kinda girl." And then I got with those kinda girls and like, "I don't exactly fit here, so let me go here." And I thought, maybe achievement, maybe success, maybe relationships, I can be like whoever this other girl is supposed to be, and then I will try and find myself. And I think as long as I was trying to be like some other version of someone, that I never had an opportunity to figure out who I was. And so for 10 years, I was trying on, like Cinderella trying on different shoes. Like, I was just trying on shoe after shoe after shoe until I said, "You know what? I'm gonna be barefoot." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 8:32 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 8:32 Who needs shoes, you know? I'm a country girl from West Virginia. I'm gonna be barefoot. I'm gonna stand flat-footed in the truth of who I am. I'm gonna stand flat-footed in this. Maybe it is isolation, maybe it is loneliness, maybe I don't fit anywhere, maybe I just fit within myself. And from that space, I said, "You know what? I've tried literally everything. I have waitress at a strip club, I've tried these toxic relationships, I've gone to school, I worked for the government, I tried everything." I said, "You know what? I'm gonna try faith. I'm gonna try and figure out if this God who they talk about who loves you no matter what, like, I'm gonna see if maybe possibly it works for someone like me." And I think from there, this really intimate relationship with God allowed me to encounter healing and love and restoration, and I thought that it would just be between me and God, that it would make no sense to anyone else-

Mel Robbins 9:24 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 9:24 ... but it finally made sense to me.

Mel Robbins 9:27 You said something

Mel Robbins 9:28 that struck me, that maybe I could just fit within myself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 9:33 Yeah. Mm.

Mel Robbins 9:34 What does that mean?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 9:36 Maybe I can just embrace myself. Instead of seeking a sense of belonging, a sense of okayness from other people, if I could find a way to be okay with myself, then I can wrap my arms around who I am. And for me, I had to sit with myself until I no longer cringed. I had to sit with myself until I no longer felt shame. I had to sit with myself until I could experience compassion where I once felt guilt. And from that place of compassion, I learned to, to love who I am and like, yes, this is my story, and no, it may not be perfect, but I'm gonna stick beside me.

Mel Robbins 10:21 Every single one of us has stuff that we've done in the past, things that we have done to ourselves or other people, mistakes that we think that we've made. How do you begin the process of sitting with yourself? How do you learn how to forgive yourself?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 10:42 Mm. It starts with intention. I sat with myself... I will say, those 10 years, I was sitting with myself, but I was sitting, sitting with myself punishing myself. How could you be so stupid? You made the biggest mistake. No one's ever gonna want you. Sometimes, we are sitting with ourselves, but how we are sitting with ourselves is why we can't heal. You can't want to heal and punish yourself at the same time. To repeat the words that other people have spoken over you that were negative, having it replay in your mind over and over again while you sit with yourself will never bring you to a place of healing. Sitting with yourself with the pursuit of compassion, with the pursuit of love and acceptance, that is when we start sitting with ourself and experience some discomfort and some, you know, dysregulation, because sitting with myself and trying to be compassionate requires me to stretch to love myself in a way that I don't think is possible. And as long as you don't think it's possible to sit with yourself and love yourself, every facet of who you are, it doesn't matter who you love, it doesn't matter what you achieve, until you can really sit with yourself, none of those things are gonna make you feel better either. But it is the greatest, absolute greatest gift that you can give yourself, to allow love to flood the place where you once felt an emptiness.

Mel Robbins 12:05 I just wanna make sure that as you're taking your walk or you're washing your dishes or you are driving in your car, that you caught-... the actual magic that just came through the speakers-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 12:21 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 12:21 ... or the headphones. I have never heard anybody say something as profound as you just said. You cannot heal while you are still punishing yourself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 12:35 Oh, yeah. And we don't do ourselves any favors by committing to punishing ourselves over and over again for what we did, for what we allowed to happen. This is what we say, though. We say to ourselves, "I'm going to keep this from happening again by constantly living with it right in front of me. And if I can live with it right in front of me, if I can beat myself up, if I can punish myself, then I will keep this from happening again. I will prepare myself for further rejection from other people if I constantly remember how unworthy I am, how little value I possess." And so in many ways, we think, "This is me protecting myself by constantly keeping it in front of my face."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 13:25 But if we're honest, we do long for an existence where we want to believe that I am not just this one moment, but we will never be more than that one moment if we constantly replay that moment in our head. And so to invite into our atmosphere what other moments do I want to have, what other things do I want to define me... I spent so long not wanting to be defined as a teen mom instead of saying, "I will be defined as being a teen mom, but also, I'm going to be an incredible person, but also, I'm going to love myself, but also, I'm going to dream and I'm going to be an author and a teen mom." I'm not trying to disconnect from who I was. I'm trying to bring all of who I am into the fullness of where I am.

Mel Robbins 14:11 Uh, Sarah Jakes Roberts just gave you a gift, but also-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 14:17 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 14:17 But also.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 14:18 But also, I'm this and that. I'm, like, I am all of these things and I thought that because I was this one thing, I had no permission to be anything else. So yeah, the truth is, yeah, I'm a teen mom, yes, I've gone through divorce. I've got a laundry list of things that I never wanted to be that I've had to step boldly in, and in addition to that, I'm on the Mel Robbins podcast. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 14:42 (laughs) And in addition to that-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 14:43 You know what I mean?

Mel Robbins 14:44 ... millions of people tune into you every single week for cryala.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 14:47 That ha- All of those things are true. All of these things are true, and I don't want to be all of my achievements. Gosh, can you imagine what that would be? The pressure and the arrogance connected to that? I want to be this beautiful mixture, this beautiful tapestry of a girl on a journey and a woman owning her power, and I can live in all of that. (laughs) I can do all of that.

Mel Robbins 15:11 A girl on her journey and a woman owning her power?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 15:14 And a woman owning her power, period. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 15:14 Somebody needs to write a song. Holy cow.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 15:18 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:19 D- D- Do you, when you're speaking, have this experience of just things flowing through you? Like, I've, I don't even feel like it's a conversation.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 15:32 Mm.

Mel Robbins 15:33 I feel this energy-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 15:35 Mm.

Mel Robbins 15:35 ... and this truth that comes through you. Like, it just gets me so choked up to be in the presence of somebody that has such a gift.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 15:44 Mm. Aw. It's, um, I believe that I'm anointed for this. I believe that anything that I've done in the Earth is not a reflection of my skills or my talents or something you pick up in a book. This is a full submission to my belief that I am made in the image of God and that I have this incredible opportunity to reflect God's glory everywhere I go, and if I can get past my nerves, if I can-

Mel Robbins 16:17 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 16:17 ... get past my insecurity, if I can get past my second guessing and rest in that truth, there is a flow that just happens. And it doesn't just happen, like, in this. Like, I'm in this flow when I'm raising my children.

Mel Robbins 16:31 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 16:31 They're opening up to me and I'm like, "God, you know, don't let me be worried." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 16:37 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 16:37 "Don't let me overreact." (laughs) You know what I mean? "Let me reflect your glory in their vulnerability. Let me reflect your glory when I go into this meeting." I, I really do want to be a light in this world, and after experiencing as much darkness as I have gone through, to offer just a flicker to another person... Like, maybe I can't be this big brilliant light for everyone, but if today, in this moment, you're listening and I get to be a flicker on your journey, just know that there are other flames connected that are going to build this inferno of who-

Mel Robbins 17:13 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 17:13 ... you're gonna be, but we gotta gather every flicker, right?

Mel Robbins 17:17 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 17:17 And I think that's the part of life that many of us miss, is that we're waiting for these big moments that are gonna shine a huge light on us, and when I have that huge light, then I'm gonna feel better, I'm gonna be confident, I'm gonna be powerful, but I am beginning to believe that it's all about us gathering those little moments, those little, like, Christmas light-sized moments-

Mel Robbins 17:38 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 17:38 ... where things are just a little bit better, and then we look up and things have become brilliant.

Mel Robbins 17:44 You know, millions of people do tune in to your every word, and having watched and listened to your sermons and experienced what a force you are, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what you believe most of us need to hear and be reminded of.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 18:11 Mm. Most people underestimate how necessary their existence is in the world.And as a result, assume a posture of resignation that leaves the world less than what it could be.

Mel Robbins 18:30 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 18:31 Our lives are not random. They are not coincidences. There is nothing more special about me than there is about you. We were all given these lives to make the world better, and I feel like most people underestimate how necessary they are, and as a result, they don't take their healing seriously, they don't take their thoughts seriously. We put ourselves on discount and give ourselves away to, like, the lowest bidder because we have these achings inside of us. But if we truly ever tapped into the high value of our breath, it would change what we speak, it would change what we think, it would change how we show up in the world, and it would quite literally make the world a better place. Like, if you can just make your world, your friends, your family, your sisters, your coworkers, if you can take seriously the impact you have in your corner of the world, and then I take seriously the impact that I have with my influence in my corner of the world, those incremental commitments are how we begin to change the narrative of what it means to be humans surviving together.

Mel Robbins 19:43 That's beautiful.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 19:44 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:44 And I think you're right.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 19:45 I do too.

Mel Robbins 19:46 I get struck by the number of people that write in every single day that are seeking purpose.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 19:53 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:54 And I think to myself, "Well, your purpose is to heal, and to share yourself, and to make yourself better, and then make everybody that comes in contact with you feel a little better-"

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:07 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:07 "... to spread the light that you're talking about." But it starts with you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:10 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:11 You said something that just, holy cow, I'd never heard this. It's this concept of discounting yourself-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:20 Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 20:20 ... to the lowest bidder?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:21 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:22 Can you explain that?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:23 Yeah. So when I look at the 10 years of my life where I struggle-

Mel Robbins 20:28 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:28 First of all, I grew up in church-

Mel Robbins 20:30 Yep.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:31 ... during the height of purity culture. Okay? So the highest prize was to be this, like, untouched virgin when you get married. They didn't care if you went to school. They didn't care. Like, "Girl, just don't give it up," over and over again. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 20:44 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 20:44 Just like, "Girl, don't do it." Okay? Well, I did it. I was like, "Okay."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 24:29 So, I thought that the only way I could recover from my pregnancy was to create a new life, a new existence. And so my goal was to do something completely new. I'm going to be an accountant. I'm going to be a CFO. I am going to put something on top of this teen pregnancy-

Mel Robbins 24:47 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 24:49 (laughs)

Narrator 24:49 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 24:49 ... that's going to make things better. And I think that the reason why... I know that the reason why I failed over and over again in trying to create something new is that I wasn't using what I had left over. Instead of saying, "Okay, this is, this is what's in my cabinet. I'm a teen mom. I'm a smart girl. I have a writing gift," I kept trying to reinvent who I was.

Mel Robbins 25:12 Oh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 25:13 And you can't reinvent who you are using ingredients that don't exist. (laughs) You got to use all of the ingredients. So yes, I have all of these gifts and talents, but I also have a child. I'm still struggling with, you know, my insecurities. I've gone through this divorce. I have to take all of this in order to create something that is really going to be authentic to who I am, because what I don't want to do is reinvent a version of myself that requires me to pretend that I'm not who I was. This is who I am. You know? Like, this is my truth. And when you fight to really accept the truth of who you are, you don't allow it to be snatched easily out of your hands. And because it's not snatched easily out of your hands, whatever you build with those things aren't snatched either. When I started blogging, because this is how all of this became a thing where I had, like, a following, I started-

Mel Robbins 26:13 Got it. So, so just to put it in a timeline-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:16 Yes.

Mel Robbins 26:16 ... are you, like, in your early 20s at this point?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:18 I'm in my early 20s.

Mel Robbins 26:19 Okay, so you open up the cupboard. And I love that visual, because I think most of us when we say, "Let's just look at what you got-"

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:26 Yeah. Right.

Mel Robbins 26:26 ... "let's just take the raw ingredients. Let's take all..." Like, for me, it's, like, being molested.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:32 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:32 It's all the cheating that I did.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:34 It's the anxiety that-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:36 ... I struggled with. It's the what a bitch I used to be.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:39 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:39 It is all of... Like, just all of it.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:42 It's all here.

Mel Robbins 26:42 I open... I... You know, Sara, when I open up that cupboard, I'm like, "Whoa!"

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:46 (laughs) You know what?

Mel Robbins 26:46 Oh, my God, no!

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:47 I'll just go, I'll just go grocery shopping. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 26:50 No, I'm not going shopping. I'm not going grocery shopping. I'm not cooking this stuff. No, no, no.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:52 I'll order in. I'll Doordash. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:53 Yeah, exactly. No, no, no, no.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:54 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 26:54 I'm opening the cupboard. Let's do something with it. Let's paint the cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:58 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:58 In fact, let's nail it shut.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 26:59 Yes, for sure. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 26:59 Let's do something. Let's distract everybody over here. But it makes so much sense.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:05 Because until you get comfortable with the ingredients that you have and you see it as something to use-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:13 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:14 ... not to be ashamed of-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:15 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:16 ... not to hide-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:16 ... because the, the stuff that you hide, people and the world then has power over.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:22 For sure. For sure.

Mel Robbins 27:23 But the second that you open up the cupboard and you are willing to look at what you're working with-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:29 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:30 ... now you have power.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 27:32 Yeah. Uh, I love it. That, that to me is, like, the greatest message that any of us need to understand, is that, like, us closing the cabinet means that I have to live in existence that pretends that I don't have what I have, and that is stressful, and that is inauthentic. And then we start people pleasing, because if I'm not going to embrace who I am, then I'll just be whoever you need me to be. But when you say, "You know what? This is who I am, and you're going to have to meet me. You're going to have to meet me here. I'm still growing. I'm still talented, but this is what I have to offer. This is what I bring to the table. And I have found value in it. I can show you the value that I have found in it, but until I see it as valuable, I can't expect anyone else to see it." So yeah, in my early 20s I'm like, "Okay, I want to start blogging." I was in a toxic relationship, and I'm just like, "I don't know how I got here." So writing for me is how I process my thoughts, and I'm dumping it onto the internet not thinking it's going to mean anything. Then people start connecting to this blog, and now they're being inspired, and I'm like, "Oh, Lord." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 28:32 Uh-oh. (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 28:34 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 28:34 I didn't mean to open the cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 28:35 Not ins- not inspired by me. And so I was like, "You know what? I'm going to slow this train down by telling them, like, 'I got pregnant at 13 years old.' Like, 'I'm going through a divorce. I dropped out of college. I am not your inspiration.'" And then I still was. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 28:52 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 28:52 They were like, "Oh, my gosh, me too. Oh, my gosh, I'm no longer alone in this. I didn't know that someone else felt this way." And now all of a sudden, those things that I thought disqualified me, those things that I thought I could never use are the things that people actually had a taste for.

Mel Robbins 29:10 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 29:11 This authenticity, this truth, this uncertainty, and this willingness to own it, there was an appetite for that, that at the time it felt like very few people were willing to say, "This is who I am. This is what I've gone through." And that appetite wasn't just for you to say, "This is who I am," but also, "I really wish that I could also be this." And so in my early 20s, I started this journey of, like, "This is where I am. This is what I hope to be true. I'm going to live like it's true." And these women who have been on this journey with me have seen my life evolve literally as a result of us saying, like, "Hey, maybe we are the misfits. Maybe we aren't the ones that anyone wanted, but girl, I'll claim you." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 29:59 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 29:59 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 29:59 But first you got to claim your cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:00 For sure. Got to claim your cupboard. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:02 That is such a phenomenal metaphor-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:05 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:06 ... because all the people pleasing results in you not wanting people to see what's in there.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:10 For sure.

Mel Robbins 30:11 And until you learn how to go into those places where you're punishing yourself-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:17 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:17 ... and you said when we first started talking allowing the love and compassion-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:21 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:21 ... and acceptance to flow into those places that have been really dark.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:24 Well, they've been dark 'cause the cabinet doors are closed.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 30:26 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure, and I mean, it's really liberating. It sounds scary. I can feel the fear that you're probably experiencing right now-... at the very idea of going into that space, that maybe your mom didn't have the courage to go in, your father never talked about. Because a lot of this is generational, right? It's how our families' paradigms have shaped the way we see ourselves and the way we see what we're working with. And I am just here to let you know, this is what I love about the book that I wrote, is that I am not going to make you drastically change your life overnight. Just between you and you, can you open that cupboard? Just between you and you, can you say, "Thi- this is all that I'm working with and some of it's real spicy and some of it's bland and some of it's bitter and some of it's very, very sweet"? Just if you could create intimacy within yourself where you say, "This is all of who I am," if you can hear your own story, that's the beginning.

Mel Robbins 31:30 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 31:30 If you can hear it and not cringe, if you can hear it and accept it, that's the beginning. And from that space, you whisper it to another person. There's a friend who's going through something and because you've gone through your cupboard, you say, "Hey, I got some of that too. I just want you to know that that doesn't have to be the end." And from community and connection, we begin to spread our story, and that spreading is why I'm here, and that spreading is the light that we get to offer to the world. It's our testimony.

Mel Robbins 31:58 Which again, going back to the cupboard, it's dark when it's closed.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:01 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:02 So opening it up is the beginning of that little Christmas light that you're talking about-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:06 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:06 ... that starts to sparkle and that we spread. And every time you open your mouth and you tell your story, that makes the light a little bit bigger.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:15 And you were saying that we make a mistake in waiting for these big bonfires in life.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:22 Oh, yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:22 When every single day there's the opportunity to open the cupboard door and open your mouth-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:28 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:28 ... and tell your story, and that's where the light and the magic is.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:33 For sure.

Mel Robbins 32:34 For somebody who's in the place where... 'Cause for a long time when I started looking, I guess I used to say back, but since... until you actually sit with what's in your cupboard-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:47 Yeah. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 32:48 (laughs) It's in the present, baby.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:51 It's right here.

Mel Robbins 32:52 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:52 It's right here. You don't have to look very far. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 32:53 Well, that's the other thing is that we talk a lot about regret-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:57 ... but because you won't sit with it-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 32:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:00 ... it's actually not in the past.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 33:02 No. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:03 And so for someone who is entertaining that liberating and courageous moment of even faith in yourself to face it, right?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 33:17 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:17 And you do cringe, like I... there are some things-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 33:22 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:22 ... that the Mel Robbins, when I was Mel Schneeberger-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 33:26 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 33:27 ... there's stuff that I don't know that I still cringe, but I'm like, "Oh God, woman." You know?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 33:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:34 Like, what were you... Like, a- and I have compassion.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 33:36 Sure, sure, sure.

Mel Robbins 33:37 But for somebody that hasn't ever sat with it and the cringe is there and you want to turn

Mel Robbins 33:46 from it, do you have any tools or advice for how to sit through the cringe and what is actually coming when you allow all of that grief and that judgment to rise up inside you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 34:05 I love that you use the word grief. I'm an analogy girl, if you haven't. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 34:09 Oh God, I love that. Bring it.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 34:11 Okay, so here we go. So I think that part of the reason why we feel regret when we look at those moments in our lives that make us cringe is because we are constantly turning on a movie right in the middle and looking at one particular scene of our life over and over again and judging our life based on that scene. If you are in a moment right now where you're flirting with the idea of learning to sit with yourself and experience compassion for what you've gone through, I would dare you to look at your whole movie in totality. When I had thought about the idea of me getting pregnant at 13, I would, I would cringe like, "Girl," like, "How could you?" Over and over again. Now when I think about it, I feel sorry for who I was at 13. Not sorry like because of who I am, but I feel compassion. I feel her lostness, I feel her isolation, I feel her loneliness, I feel her anger. I understand why I made that choice. I know what I was looking for, I know what I didn't have because I sat with myself. And when you're in a family... Like my parents had... their lives exploded overnight. People talk about like mega churches, mega pastors, like no one sets out for it to be mega. People keep coming and it's like- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 35:35 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 35:36 ... "I guess we need a bigger building." You know what I mean? And so you make these big buildings and, you know, "I guess we're supposed to do stuff in the communities n-" Like, you respond to the need.

Mel Robbins 35:46 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 35:46 And while they were so busy dealing with whatever it meant to be thrust into the spotlight, they thought we were okay. They really did. They thought we were okay, but we were lost in a sea of people. And overnight our lives went from having this family church where we knew everyone to all of a sudden people sending death threats and, "We need security." And we weren't okay. No one was helping us process what was happening. They couldn't process it.

Mel Robbins 36:13 Right.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 36:14 And so I was lonely. I was angry. I didn't fit. So when I think about who I was when I got pregnant, if I just look at me rubbing my belly at 13, I could say, "Ugh, so cringy," or I could say, "Man, that girl was really heartbroken. That girl really needed someone who could see her. That girl really needed someone who would tell her where she fit in this world or to take her out of that world and to help dive into her own world." I didn't have those things. And as a result of that, I tried to self-sooth and I made some choices that I wish I could have done differently, mainly for the sake of my son not having to grow up with me at the same time I was growing up.

Mel Robbins 36:54 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 36:55 But I don't feel bad about that anymore, because I see the whole movie. And so if you're watching this or listening to it, I want you to know that you do not have to look at your life a- at one scene at a time, that the greatest gift you can give yourself is to look at it from the opening credits to where you are now, and understand that anyone who had what you had in the cabinet would've probably made the same choice. They would've likely ended up addicted too. Maybe they would've been heartbroken as well. Maybe they would've been promi- whatever your thing is that makes you cringe. If you look at the whole movie, given what you had to work with, I want you to know that you did the best that you could.

Mel Robbins 37:40 I love that you are reminding us to go back to the beginning.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 37:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 37:50 Because we not only freeze the frame-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 37:52 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 37:53 ... and we cut us off from the rest of the story-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 37:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 37:59 ... but we also freeze the frame and we don't even consider the plot line-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:06 Oh, yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:06 ... that led up to this.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:07 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:08 And so we judge it from a frozen moment in time when you do have the full story.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:15 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:16 And as I listen to you over and over and over again and just really to each word, the thing that keeps coming up for me is this ability to look at the whole movie of your life.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:37 The fact that it's so easy to forget, isn't it, that this is also your parents' first time being-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:41 Oh.

Mel Robbins 38:41 ... human beings.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:42 Yeah, yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:44 That they're doing the best that they can with what they had in the cupboard-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:48 ... based on what your grandparents had in their cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:51 Yup. Hello. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:52 That doesn't mean that any of it is justifi-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:55 No.

Mel Robbins 38:55 It just means like-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 38:56 This is what they had.

Mel Robbins 38:56 This is what they had. There is this level of kind of, my daughter has this term open arms. There's kind of-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 39:02 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 39:02 ... open arms kind of people-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 39:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 39:05 ... which is the physical version of an open heart.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 39:08 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 39:08 And you have this ability to make us want to look at our own movie and story with an open heart and compassion for self.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 39:21 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 39:22 How important is that sort of y- l- loving understanding, I guess, is how I would describe what compassion is.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 39:30 Yeah, for sure. I would, yeah, looking at your life through a lens of love, not judgment, is an incredible definition of what it means to have compassion. And I think it's responsible to do that when you're going to engage in relationship with other people. Because if you can't look at your life through the lens of love, but you can look at other people's life through the lens of love and feel compassion for them, then you cannot even receive the love that you're pouring out into the world. Or worse, we are harsh with other people because we're harsh with ourselves.

Mel Robbins 40:03 Mm-hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 40:04 Because I can't see my life through a lens of love, I'm definitely not going to see yours. And if I went through this and you went through that, baby girl- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 40:12 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 40:12 ... grab them bootstraps and that ain't nothing. Like now we're in the struggle Olympics like who- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 40:17 Like who, who's got it worse? (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 40:18 Who's got it worse? You know what I mean? Or we're jealous or we're envious and like we just are not the best people to be in relationship with when we haven't figured out what compassion looks like for our own journey, and especially if we're doing the work of raising children, loving partners. Like there is an obligation, I feel, that we have to bring more love into the world. And love isn't gonna come from pursuit. It's gonna come from us digging a well within ourselves. And when we dig that well and we hit that spring of love, not just for ourselves, it overflows into how we care for other people. Uh, we were at Starbucks the other day and my daughter, she's 14.

Mel Robbins 40:59 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 40:59 She's not aware of anything except for herself. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 41:02 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:02 And she slings the door open and she hits the car of the person beside us.

Mel Robbins 41:07 Oh, gosh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:07 And he's coming out of Starbucks at the same time and he doesn't... He calls her like a dumb... He just called her something ignorant and crazy. So I heard him say it and I go, "Now that wasn't kind." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 41:19 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:19 And that response, instead of like matching his anger, like because I- I've been frustrated before someone's hit my door, they weren't paying attention-

Mel Robbins 41:27 Of course. Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:27 ... so like I'm not gonna act like, "Oh my gosh, how could you be frustrated that someone hit your car and probably dinged your door?"

Mel Robbins 41:32 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:33 But I think I caught him so off guard by not responding with fire, I was just like, "Now that wasn't kind," that he felt c- conviction about how he was showing up in the world. But I think that when we are able to really master that, it literally changes all of the ways that we interact with people. Now that doesn't mean I won't cuss somebody out though, so like don't catch me... (laughs)

Mel Robbins 41:52 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:52 That was a good moment. I was full of love. I must have just been-

Mel Robbins 41:55 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 41:55 ... worshiping, but like if you catch me on a low moment, you know, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna do all the things, but... (laughs)

Mel Robbins 42:00 (laughs) What are all the things that-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 42:02 Uh.

Mel Robbins 42:02 ... you do in order to stay in a grounded place where you are present to that power and light inside you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 42:12 I have to rest. When I am not resting, I am running on fumes, and when I'm running on fumes, I don't always make the best choices.

Mel Robbins 42:20 Ugh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 42:20 I'm tired, I'm weary, I'm irritated. Um, from the place of rest, even if for me it's just like spiritual rest, right? Letting my brain rest, gratitude, appreciation, prayer, meditation, really reflecting on my life and this is what I do. I let

Sarah Jakes Roberts 42:38 the 13-year-old girl who experienced shame, rejection, and loneliness, like take in where life is now.

Mel Robbins 42:45 Oh.Oh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 42:47 Yeah. The grown woman version of me grabbing this little girl's hand and saying, "Look, girl, like, look, you made it. Your son's 21 now and he loves you and he's an incredible human. And, oh my gosh, this man that you married, like, look at w- how he talks about you and..."

Mel Robbins 43:06 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 43:06 You know? And my children and my life and, like, "Look what they're saying about you." Because she heard, she heard, "You're nasty." She heard, "You're a slut." She heard, "You're..." Like, she heard all of those things. And if I'm not careful, I won't allow her to hear what people are saying now.

Mel Robbins 43:23 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 43:24 Um, I won't allow her to experience the affirmation of God that exists in her life now. And sometimes I'm so busy doing and checking the boxes and going through the calendar that I don't let her in for, like, this listening session where, like, "Look at this world."

Mel Robbins 43:41 I think no matter where you are in your movie, the scene that you're in is still worthy of reaching backward and taking a younger version of yourself and just taking a moment and going, "We made it this far."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 43:56 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 43:57 Like, "Look at all this."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 43:58 Yeah. Oh my gosh, because this thing, this adulting thing, they keep moving the marker. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 44:05 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 44:05 They just keep moving it. It's like, "Chile, I just got here." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 44:09 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 44:09 "And now you're telling me that here doesn't exist. It's actually there. And then I get there and that's not here either," you know? Um, but where I am now was a place that I once wanted to be. And I think reconciliation is being able to say, like, "Look at where we are now." Like, okay, you have all these things you wanna do and all these plans, all that stuff. Like, okay, maybe we get there, maybe we don't, but right now, if we didn't get any further than this... Man, if I did not get any further than this... It feels greedy for me when people are like, "What are you gonna do next? What's next? What's next? What are you gonna do?" That feels like greed 'cause I am in the overflow right now. If I never write another book, if this is the last podcast I record and I disappear from people's brains and minds, what God has done in my life up until this point was not something I could have ever asked for. I didn't even know this was possible. I did not know that God saw this for me. Oh, can I tell you a story?

Mel Robbins 45:11 You can, you can. I am in a trance.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 45:13 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 45:13 You can tell me whatever the heck you wanna tell me.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 45:16 It just gives me chills. I love it. Um, but when I first got pregnant-

Mel Robbins 45:20 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 45:21 ... someone very close to me looked at me and said, "I always knew to expect something like this from you." And that made me question so much. Now, I'm 13, with a 13-year-old mind. And it just made me feel like there's really something wrong with you. The church stuff didn't make sense and now someone's saying they knew to expect this from you. And I ate that for breakfast, like, for 10 years. Like, "There's something wrong with you." The, the dirty, the nasty, the all of that. Like, I just ate that, I believed it. And when my life started changing, I think... I probably did experience imposter syndrome, which, it was weird 'cause I told people who I was, but they were still there and so now I'm just questioning myself. And I was at church and I was just kind of, like, praying and worshiping and I was about to go on tour. And, you know Mel, I just be doing stuff. I'm just like, "Let's see what'll happen if we do a tour." And then the tour sells out, I'm like, "Oh Lord." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 46:23 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 46:24 I'm usually prepared for things to fail, not for things to succeed. I'm like, "Oh, they coming to tour," and I'm praying and I really just felt, like, the presence of God saying, "I always knew to expect something like this from you."

Mel Robbins 46:38 Oh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 46:39 And sometimes I'm standing in moments and I start to feel doubt and I start to feel worry and I start to wonder if I have what it takes to stand up in the moment and I feel God say, "I always knew to expect something like this from you." And trusting what God knows, what God knew, what God saw, even when I didn't see it myself. There's... Nothing else could be added to this. And I will not allow other people's idea of who I could be to rob me of the assurance I have received from what God's a- always known about me. Like, I can't let you keep moving the marker 'cause I, I already know. Like, I won already. I won.

Mel Robbins 47:30 How would you frame the way that you're talking about your relationship with God-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 47:34 Okay.

Mel Robbins 47:35 ... to a person that's listening-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 47:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 47:37 ... that either has lost their faith or doesn't believe in God? Like, how do they kinda tap into what you're saying-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 47:47 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 47:47 ... if they're not in a place where they have the same level of faith that you do?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 47:53 For me, I will say that I believe in the intentionality of our existence. Like, the whole world has been created with i- this intention, the way that everything is working together. The solar system, the mosquitoes, like, everything is playing a part. Like, I hate mosquitoes, but for some reason they do serve this atmosphere.

Mel Robbins 48:18 Mm-hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 48:19 I just don't believe that it got to humanity and there was no intention for humanity. And so that belief undergirds the way that I show up in the world. That I am just as essential as the sun for my time here. I am just as essential as the ocean for my time here. I believe that. And so from that space of intentionality, I am always seeking out, how do I make sure that I am in an optimal state?... to be sensitive to the role that I can play in this moment.

Mel Robbins 48:52 What I love about what you just said-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 48:54 Yes.

Mel Robbins 48:55 ... is that you are raising the stakes-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 48:58 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 48:58 ... on yourself-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 48:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:00 ... for why you are here.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 49:03 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:04 And so many of us are looking around for somebody else to go, "Okay, I pick you."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 49:10 Right.

Mel Robbins 49:10 "Okay, you're now the one. Okay, I'm gonna give you permission." And when you look at yourself as being here for a reason, and the reason is simply to spread light, simply to make the people around you, your community, your family, yourself feel better-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 49:29 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:30 ... to do good, like, that in and of itself gives your life meaning. And then when you add into it, "Okay, so let me work with the ingredients that I got."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 49:40 Right.

Mel Robbins 49:40 "Let me do something with this."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 49:42 That's why I said to make sure I'm in my optimal state, which means I've got to make sure that I am as well, as aware, as whole, as reconciled as possible in order for me to be most effective. That's a constant reconciliation, like, in accounting. Like, I gotta go back to the books. Hold on, you done got on my nerves today. Let me-

Mel Robbins 50:01 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:02 (laughs) I must need a nap. I need to go reconcile.

Mel Robbins 50:05 I think rest is something I need.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:07 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 50:07 Like, I become so... I hate myself when I'm tired.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:11 She's not a good girl. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 50:12 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:13 She is, she's not, mm-mm.

Mel Robbins 50:15 I wanna throw her in the cabinet, obviously.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:16 She needs a nap. She needs, like... And not just, like, "I need to go to sleep." Like, "I need you all to stop asking me for stuff."

Mel Robbins 50:23 Yes.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:23 Like, I- I can always tell when I'm overexerted when, like, my family, my community, my team are asking me for things that I set a precedent for, and I am annoyed.

Mel Robbins 50:35 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:36 (laughs) Why would an eight-

Mel Robbins 50:37 Did they call you and tell you to come today-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:39 No, they did not. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 50:39 ... to give me this talk?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:40 Let me tell you-

Mel Robbins 50:41 No?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:41 ... when my eight-year-old asks me what for dinner, I'm like, "Feed yourself." Like, "When are you gonna grow up?"

Mel Robbins 50:46 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 50:46 "When are you gonna... Why are you asking me for dinner? What do I look like, the chef for?" I'm like, "You need a nap because now you set this precedent and you don't want to live up to it anymore." And so maybe you do need to change the precedent, but you probably don't want to communicate it that way. So, you need to take a minute, recollect, regroup, figure out what do you need, what is still true for you right now, what is no longer true, and who needs to be aware of this so that they can make space for who you are now.

Mel Robbins 51:11 You know what I'm gonna do when we're done talking?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:12 What?

Mel Robbins 51:13 I am going to ask the team to take that particular segment-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:16 Okay.

Mel Robbins 51:17 ... and text it to me.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:18 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 51:19 So that I can listen to it on repeat until I have taken my nap and I can just change the precedent and stop being, like, angry-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:31 For sure.

Mel Robbins 51:31 ... about being overworked, 'cause i- you're right. It- it's everywhere, and I think what you just said is genius.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:36 Because especially as women.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:38 Yeah. Sign me up.

Mel Robbins 51:40 Sign me up. Okay.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:41 I'll do it.

Mel Robbins 51:41 I'll do it.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:41 I got it.

Mel Robbins 51:41 I'll do it. No, I got it, CeeCee.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:42 No, sure.

Mel Robbins 51:42 I'll do it myself. Okay, no problem.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:44 No problem. And then the thing that you said about your eight-year-old.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:48 Like, I'm literally like, "Who the hell do you think? You think I'm a bank?"

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:50 Wha- Who do you think I am? (laughs) Like, I-

Mel Robbins 51:52 And then all of a sudden, you're like, "Oh, wait a minute."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:54 They think you are who you said you are. They think

Sarah Jakes Roberts 51:57 you are who you used to be. Like, they have a reason to expect this from you. And maybe, maybe they can still expect it. Maybe you can take an nap and they can still expect it, but maybe you have to change the expectation. And this, I feel, is why we end up robbed of power in our world, is that we set a precedent, we set an expectation, whether it's from our people pleasing or whether it's from something that was authentic for us years ago, and now I can no longer live up to that standard. And so I feel like I'm being held hostage in my life.

Mel Robbins 52:26 Yes, and I think you know that this is true in any moment where you start resenting-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 52:31 For sure.

Mel Robbins 52:32 ... people that you care about-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 52:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:34 ... or something that you used to love.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 52:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:36 And this framework is so helpful because I always say it's like, "Okay, the process is broken," or, "This has happened," but I realize that there are ways in which I've behaved in the past-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 52:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:48 ... that just don't work.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 52:49 They just don't work.

Mel Robbins 52:50 And I was laughing to myself when you s- were kind of talking about how they keep moving the- the mark for adulthood.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 52:56 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:57 And I- I'm thinking about the fact that our youngest of three just graduated from high school and everyone's like, "Oh, how do you feel about being an empty nester?" I'm like, "You mean the birds leaving the nest?" As- as far as I'm aware, they haven't l- like, they fly back.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:10 They- they still here. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 53:10 They call more.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:11 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:11 The problems are just more expensive.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:13 It's still here. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:13 And, you know, they're still here.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:14 The problems are more expensive, yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:16 Like, it's- nobody's leaving anyway.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:17 Yeah. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 53:19 (laughs) It's just-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:19 Yes. But when I was growing up, it's like, oh my gosh, you turn 18, and now... You know what I mean? 18, 18, 18. But honey, we hit 18, and it's just not... it's not giving what it was supposed to give.

Mel Robbins 53:30 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:31 Well, we gotta change the precedent-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:34 Yeah, we do.

Mel Robbins 53:34 ... in terms of how we're gonna be-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:36 ... in the next chapter. Ooh, I got so much out of that. Thank you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:40 My pleasure.

Mel Robbins 53:40 Thank you. You know, you talked about how you just started writing about what was in your cupboard-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:46 Oh, yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:46 ... and sharing everything, and then all of a sudden, you're like, "You know, maybe I'll just try going on little tours."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:51 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:51 "Talking to some of the people that I..." Next thing you know, you're writing a book.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 53:54 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:55 And I read that when this all started happening, you had to dare to believe in yourself.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 54:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 54:04 Why is it a dare?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 54:05 Mm-hmm. Well, when you have spent more time doubting yourself than believing in yourself, it's not an easy transition. And I c- I, I cringe when I see people are like, "Just take the leap. Take the jump." It's hard. It is really, really hard because I've only known one way of being, one na- one way of seeing myself.

Mel Robbins 54:27 Mm-hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 54:28 And now you're telling me, like, I'm this big, bad, bold person, and I just need to step into it and run with it. And, like, I can't do it. It is a dare. It is not something that comes easily. But it is something that gradually picks up momentum. And so I try to challenge people, like, one, like, "Let's start... Let's create this vision." Like, "Who is this person who you believe is within your reach to become? You opened the cupboard. You know what you're working with. Who do it... Is it that you believe you can become from here? And how do we begin to gradually introduce that person into your life?" It is a dare, but you don't have to go from where you are right now to...... that person overnight. It is an introduction. Um, for those who you're in intimate relationship with, it's the ability to say, "You know what? That precedent that I set, the way that I have been showing up, it doesn't necessarily feel honest anymore and I want you to know the most honest version of myself," and maybe things will change a little bit. You know, I'm married. I, I don't wanna write a book that empowers someone to be like, "You know what? I'm gonna change," and whether they can get with it or not, when it's someone who-

Mel Robbins 55:37 Yeah, exactly.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 55:38 Right? (laughs) You know what I mean? Like, that's, y- you might wanna keep that person around. Maybe they haven't done anything-

Mel Robbins 55:43 Yes.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 55:43 ... to you, but you still wanna be authentic. You get to introduce who you are to that person. Like, "Actually, I kinda wanna go back to school," or, "I wanna start a business," or, "I kinda think I might be an artist and so I bought a few things and I'd appreciate bringing you along on this journey with me." It is an introduction. And then you look up and you realize, "Wow, I have transformed," but transformation is a process. And so, I would say to take a little dare, a baby dare, recognizing that with each little dare, we look up and we have been transformed.

Mel Robbins 56:16 In the work that you're doing, have you noticed that there's, uh, a particular dare, or a particular-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 56:24 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 56:25 ... change? You know what I mean?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 56:25 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 56:25 Like, even if it's just getting up earlier and creating some ritual to start your day.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 56:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 56:31 Or if it's moving your body, or if it's time for yourself, or... Like, is there one thing that you-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 56:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 56:38 ... could offer based on all of the work that you've done that you see, this really does help start the ball rolling toward the light?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 56:49 I think the one thing that we can do is to speak who we are seeking to become in our world and atmosphere, to give it language. When we give it language, whether it's to ourselves, but I think e- especially to other people, that we begin to stretch our environment out to make room for who we're gonna become. So, if I can give you a practical example-

Mel Robbins 57:14 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:14 ... everyone who knows me knows, like, I'm introverted. I like to be at home. I love to be at home. It is my favorite thing to do.

Mel Robbins 57:20 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:21 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 57:21 I wanna see your home, though.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:22 Oh-

Mel Robbins 57:22 I'm like, "This might be..."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:23 I love it.

Mel Robbins 57:24 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:24 The... What you really wanna see are my blankets and pillows-

Mel Robbins 57:26 Okay.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:26 ... 'cause that's where I do my best work. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 57:28 Awesome. (laughs) 'Cause we're gonna nap together. I gotta come over-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:31 We're going-

Mel Robbins 57:31 ... to your house and we're taking a nap.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:33 ... to bed. (laughs) Um, so when I started speaking and touring and stuff, someone sent me an invitation to do something globally and someone turned it down on my behalf. They're like, "She's never gonna do it. She likes to be at home." And I had to own this fact that, like, yes, I do like being at home, but I am really intrigued by exploring what God's doing in my life.

Mel Robbins 57:54 Mm-hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 57:54 And I do not want to deflect opportunities because I have allowed people to believe something about me that is no longer true. And so, we laughed about that. Like, "Oh, ha, I'm so glad you turned down. Yeah, you know I love being at home." I started going back to that person. I'm like, "Actually, I just want you to know that it would actually be a dream to travel the world and to be able to do what I do with other people, and so if something like that comes up again, I just want you to know that I'm open for

Sarah Jakes Roberts 58:19 it." I think that we have to create openings for who we are becoming.

Mel Robbins 58:22 Mm-hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 58:23 And sometimes that's with our language. Sometimes that's with us having communication with other people, but I think the most powerful thing you can do is to back it up, to start putting a down payment on who you are becoming by using your words, using your language, to create space for that person to be, uh, rooted in your life.

Mel Robbins 58:42 It makes so much sense. It's, again, another tactical example of what it means to spread the light.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 58:50 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 58:51 Because you're now giving yourself not only permission-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 58:54 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 58:54 ... but you're giving voice to the scenes in the movie-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 58:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 59:00 ... that you are now directing-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 59:02 ... that are gonna come.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:03 Yeah. Let it live outside of you.

Mel Robbins 59:05 Let it live outside of you. I love that-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:07 Like-

Mel Robbins 59:07 ... because we, we, we... Oh, my God.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:09 Yes. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 59:10 Oh, my God.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:11 Let it live outside of you. If you let me talk, I'll get it. I'll get it. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 59:15 Go, go. Oh, my God.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:16 No.

Mel Robbins 59:16 I guess, yes.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:17 Let it live out... Because, okay, you listened to the podcast. You read the books and it's all living inside of you. You got the tools. You got the, you got the inspiration. You've gotta let this live outside of you. Part of the reason that you have to let it live outside of you is that when it lives outside of you, it empties you out and makes room for more, but also, it creates space outside of you for who you are becoming. That's it. Let it live-

Mel Robbins 59:40 Oh-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:40 ... outside of you.

Mel Robbins 59:40 ... my God. I have to make sure that you got that, and I am gonna break this down-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 59:48 Yes.

Mel Robbins 59:48 ... so that you understand the importance of this because this is everything. All of that stuff that you stuffed down inside you, waiting for some day, waiting for permission, waiting to feel ready, waiting to get rid of the shame, waiting for inspiration, waiting for motivation. You just heard Sarah tell you, you have to open your mouth and let it live outside of you. And when you do that, oh, my God, you create space inside of you-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:24 ... for new amazing things to flow in and you also create expansion in space-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:32 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:32 ... for that thing that you want and who you're becoming to take up space.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:38 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:00:38 You are a genius.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:41 Yay. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:00:41 (laughs) Wow.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:44 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:46 It's so true.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:48 You know, I hadn't thought about it in the context of space.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:00:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:00:54 Because it is so painful to live your life with so many hopes and dreams for yourself-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:01:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:05 ... and to know that there is a bigger possibility for your life...And when you trap it inside of you-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:01:15 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:15 ... like it- it just, I know how s- how awful that feels.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:01:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:21 And it is so beautiful to think that just starting to say it out loud-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:01:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:25 ... daring to believe-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:01:27 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:27 ... that little act of bravery opens up the space inside and creates expansion and room for you to grow into that.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:01:36 Yeah. And it, I mean, it lets you exhale. It just, 'cause you drown trying to keep all of that inside of you. It's hard to breathe, it's hard to believe, it's hard to show up in your world. But when you let it live outside of you, you get to exhale that. And I just want people to understand that nine times out of 10, right, it's not universal, but nine times out of 10 there is more flexibility in your environment than you are aware of. Part of the reason why we can't let it live outside of us is that we think it's gonna break our circle, it's gonna break our relationships, it's gonna break... "So I gotta keep it all inside of me." I've had some people that I've lost along the way, but for the most part, people were excited to go on this journey with me. "Okay, you going back to school? Okay, I'm excited for you. Okay, what are you gonna study? Okay, well, I'm gonna be praying for you. Or let me know if you want me to quiz you," you know? Like, "Oh, I need a break." "Okay, what can I do to help you with the kids?" You know what I mean? I'm stepping into something. Most people have more flexibility than we give them credit for. But because we let things live inside of us, we never get to experience the richness of the relationships that are connected to us as well.

Mel Robbins 1:02:47 You know, I just, um, had this visual, I don't know why, of you know h- you know when you go to a concert and you're, like got the standing floor seats?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:02:57 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:02:57 Like you know, kinda flood into the standing room only kinda they can be the cheaper tickets, right?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:01 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:03:02 How the crowd's there and you think you're in your spot, but you can always-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:09 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:03:10 ... make a little room, get a little further. People are a little bit more flexible.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:13 They are.

Mel Robbins 1:03:13 There's a little bit more space.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:15 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:03:15 You think all the space is taken, it is not true.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:17 It's not taken. And they move and they say, "Excuse me." You're like-

Mel Robbins 1:03:21 (laughs) .

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:21 ... "Oh my gosh, I didn't think that there was any room here."

Mel Robbins 1:03:25 Right.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:03:26 Right. And there is, there always is.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:27 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:03:28 You also talk about this idea of versions of you. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:33 I don't want to say my husband's in the room, otherwise I'd spill it, but he's here so I gotta tell you. That he-

Mel Robbins 1:03:37 (laughs) .

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:37 ... talks about this unfolding-

Mel Robbins 1:03:39 'Kay.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:03:39 ... that happens in our lives and our identity. And I think it's a very similar analogy, uh, to this versions of you. And I think we have to recognize that just like there's that version of yourself in the past that did something that makes you cringe, like you're no longer that person. Like the reason why you feel the way that you feel about what you went through in your past is because w- based off of what you know now, you would've made a different choice. And so that's one version of you, and now you're in this version of you. But also, there are other versions of you waiting to be unfolded.

Mel Robbins 1:04:13 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:04:14 And you just could've never told me when I was writing that blog that I would also be good at communicating. Like I don't consider myself a good public speaker.

Mel Robbins 1:04:23 Still?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:04:24 I think I have a gift now. But it's not like-

Mel Robbins 1:04:26 Thank you for owning it.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:04:27 (laughs) I do, I think I have a gift, but it's not like, I don't feel it's natural or organic to me to just gravitate to speaking. But th- it's obviously in me. So there are versions of you waiting to be revealed to you, introduced to you, and released into the world. And you just have to dare to not get caught up in an old version or this present version, and recognize that the unfolding of that is not like this deep, hard work. It is owning fully where you are now, letting those things that are inside of you live outside of you so that more expression can come to you. And I just look at my life and I feel like I've lived 1,000 lives in, you know, my 35 years, because I've just had all of these different versions.

Mel Robbins 1:05:12 And there's a thousand more coming.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:05:14 I can't wait them either. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:05:15 (laughs) But first we need a nap. (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:05:17 Yes, we must rest first. That's how the unfolding happens. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:05:21 You know, I think when you hear the word power, right?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:05:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:05:25 You tend to think of something that's unbreakable or in charge. What does power mean to you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:05:32 Mm. Power is authenticity, resiliency, humility combined.

Mel Robbins 1:05:42 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:05:43 It is a combination. If there were like a nutritional fact that breaks down what power is, it is 100% authenticity, 100% resiliency, and 100% humility. And I think many times we think power is just about that resiliency side.

Mel Robbins 1:06:03 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:06:03 "And I get back up and I don't get knocked down and that's what makes me powerful." But humility is owning what we do wrong, it's learning our lessons, it's taking ownership of the way that our resiliency can have negative impacts on our friendships and family. Authenticity is recognizing that sometimes I am the beast that's on stage and I'm like tearing things up, and then there are other moments where I literally do need to go home. I need to be nurtured, I need to be cared for. We're a blended family with six kids, I do a lot of nurturing, and that is authentic to me. And then there are other moments where authenticity is I need someone to take care of me-

Mel Robbins 1:06:40 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:06:40 ... and I have to use my words to be the strong friend. This cocktail of authenticity, humility, and resiliency is a flow of power. Power is not a destination. It is a flow in which all three of those things have come together for the confluence of who you are, and that confluence will take you anywhere. It works anywhere you place it.

Mel Robbins 1:07:04 I just got this image because, you know, when you h- see the word power or you think about it, you tend to think about authority.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:12 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:07:13 Right? But the way you described it-I actually started to think about it as energy.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:19 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:07:20 That it is all these things flowing through you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:23 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:07:24 So it's what's fueling-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:07:26 ... the way that you show up.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:27 Yeah. So the book is called Power Moves-

Mel Robbins 1:07:29 Uh-huh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:29 And many times people hear... First of all, it's Power Moves: Ignite Your Confidence and Become a Force. There's not a more intimidating title anywhere-

Mel Robbins 1:07:36 Let's go.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:36 ... right? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:07:37 And now let's take a nap.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:37 Right. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:07:38 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:07:38 And then go to bed. And I think my greatest, like, you know, lesson in sharing the message of the book is, like, power is not a doing, it is a being. And Power Moves is not like, "How do I make a power moves?" It is a realization that power is fluid, that power moves.

Mel Robbins 1:07:59 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:08:00 And from that place of flowing in power, from that place of being powerful and allowing power to flow through you, sure, you do some, you do some things, but what's most important is the being, the powerful being that you are.

Mel Robbins 1:08:15 I freaking love that. I love thinking about how you can, no matter where you are in your life, begin to allow this power-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:08:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:08:25 ... to move through you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:08:27 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:08:29 Since you have confidence as a subtitle in the book-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:08:34 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:08:34 ... what does, what, what does confidence mean to you? And how does somebody who does not feel confident tap into it?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:08:42 Mm. Esther Perel has the definition of confidence that I love the most, and I'm gonna paraphrase it 'cause I could never do her words justice, but basically, it's like having knowledge of both your gifts and strengths and also your flaws, and not being moved in either direction. Confidence is the intentional owning of your existence and identity, and the acceptance of it, the, um, contentment of all of who you are, and not allowing it to be easily moved or swayed by success nor failure, and having the courage to be okay with that. Like to, to... Not just okay like, "I settled for okay," but like to really embrace that. And I think a lot of times confidence comes down to, "Okay, well, I need a haircut or I need..." You know, "What does the makeup look like? I need..." Like I, (laughs) I was preaching one time, my wig started slipping, I took my wig off.

Mel Robbins 1:09:47 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:09:47 Um, which is worthy of doing a whole nother podcast about, but people were like, "Oh my gosh, how did you do that?" I'm like, "I mean, the hair is nice, but it's not who I am." Like it doesn't define me. I don't wish that it happened, but I'm not gonna be afraid to be up here with a wig cap on, 'cause like most people know this isn't my hair anyway. It's long one day, it's short the next week. Like I am so okay with who I am that I can step into any moment no matter how, you know, humiliating it may feel on the surface, and say, "You know what? This is my truth and I gotta step into it." Confidence is not about how I look. Confidence is, is about who I am on the inside and being able to hold onto that.

Mel Robbins 1:10:27 Amazing. And

Mel Robbins 1:10:29 what I got as you were telling the wig story-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:10:32 ... is that power was moving through you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:35 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:10:36 So you took the authenticity, the resilience, and the humility.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:39 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:10:40 And you just let that flow through you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:41 For sure. First of all, I had some-

Mel Robbins 1:10:43 So what happened?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:44 Oh, child. Okay, listen. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:10:47 (laughs) I gotta know now.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:48 Child, listen. Okay, so-

Mel Robbins 1:10:49 I'll tell you my most embarrassing story-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:50 Really?

Mel Robbins 1:10:51 ... up at stage, yeah, and then you tell me yours.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:52 Okay.

Mel Robbins 1:10:52 Well, I've got two kind of things.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:54 So first of all, we're gonna have a lesson in wigs, right?

Mel Robbins 1:10:56 Okay.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:56 Okay? So not my hair, right? So-

Mel Robbins 1:10:58 Yep.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:10:58 ... not, it's not attached to anything, right? And so when it's on like this, it's fine, right? But when you start doing ponytails, there's a certain level of anchoring that you wanna have.

Mel Robbins 1:11:07 Yes.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:07 You wanna sew it into some braids, you wanna glue it down real good. And she had sewed it on, but she didn't sew deep enough-

Mel Robbins 1:11:14 (gasps) .

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:14 ... into the braids. It was just sewed onto the wig cap. So the weight-

Mel Robbins 1:11:18 Oh.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:18 ... of the ponytail-

Mel Robbins 1:11:19 Hold the wig cap. Oh... (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:23 And girl... (laughs) you know, I don't sit through an hour and a half of hair and makeup for my wig to come off. So you know, I'm sitting there and someone's like... You know, I... W- this is Black church, right? So we're talking to one another, they're clapping. Like you know, I've gone to some spaces, it's pretty quiet.

Mel Robbins 1:11:43 Yep.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:43 People are just receiving, you know, the... We're having a conversation. It's not uncommon for people to be like waving their hands-

Mel Robbins 1:11:48 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:48 ... and stuff in the air, but then I saw this one, she was like pulling, she was like pulling- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:11:52 Trying to signal to you?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:11:53 (laughs) I was like, "I've never seen that one before, but get it, girl." And then I went to the other side and someone else was like, "Uh." I was like, "Is my wig..." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:12:02 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:12:03 'Cause I'm sweating, I'm hot, you know, and the glue in the wig, and so I started sweating and I said... Listen, I knew, I did math real fast. I'm like, "The weight of this ponytail, like I could yank it, but it's gonna fall back again because it's not secured to anything."

Mel Robbins 1:12:15 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:12:16 And so I was in the middle of my message. I'm not gonna stop preaching to go run off stage 'cause my wig is falling off. And so I took it off. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:12:27 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:12:27 And then I'm sitting there with a wig cap and I was like, "This is actually happening." On any given Sunday, there's like 50,000 people streaming online and my, my father wasn't there, my husband was out of town, and now I'm sitting on stage at this traditional church where I was pregnant as a teenager. Now I'm like this grownup who's like overcome with a wig cap on. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:12:48 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:12:48 I take the wig off, I throw it to my sister, and I go back to preaching. And I really was just prepared to be like the laughingstock of the internet. People got some jokes, but for the most part, women were like, "I felt so much liberation when you did that. It felt like you can just show up in any given moment with the truth of who you are and it'll be okay. Like I felt confidence." I felt like, I don't know, it helped a lot of people. Like I spent weeks studying for this message and me taking my wig off was like the most powerful moment of the whole sermon because it gave people permission to be authentic, whatever that authenticity look like, and to stand flat-footed in it. So yeah, I took it off.

Mel Robbins 1:13:31 Well, the message is always bigger than the mess.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:13:34 Always. And it taught me a valuable lesson. So on the back end, we had just recently relocated to Dallas. My husband and I, we were living in Los Angeles.

Mel Robbins 1:13:42 Mm-hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:13:42 And while we were in LA, my husband has this incredible community. It's vibrant. It's y- it's the kind of place where a girl who got pregnant at 13, had her baby at 14 could go and be like, "Girl, please. We got you. We love you. Show us what you know about God." And that's where I got a lot of my confidence as a speaker and as someone who preaches. And so when we went back to Dallas to kind of help my father in leadership, I'm like, "I don't know if who I was there works here," right?

Mel Robbins 1:14:07 Hmm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:14:07 So now I'm questioning, does power move? Does that same power that exists here, will it flow into where I am now? And so internally, I'm dealing with these insecurities, this uncertainty. That Sunday, when I took my wig off, it really was a message for me from God that, like, the most authentic version of who you are has been anointed to help from w- from Dallas, from this church, from this platform. If you will just be who you are, I will take care of the rest. And this moment that would've been something that most people laugh at, became this thing that helped so many people feel comfortable in their own skin to own who they were. (laughs) I was, I looked and there was this lady, she had thrown her wig off and it was on the stage. I'm like, "Now mine was slipping, that's why I took mine off." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:14:51 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:14:52 Why is yours on all the time? But she's like, solidarity, tired of pretending, tired of pretending to have it all together. It's like this moment where people are like, "This is who I am, accept it." And so it really was a blessing in disguise. It really was.

Mel Robbins 1:15:07 Uh, i- it was a direct message to you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:09 For sure.

Mel Robbins 1:15:10 For sure. There are no accidents.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:11 He can text me next time.

Mel Robbins 1:15:12 Yeah. (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:14 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:15:14 Well, and, you know, on the theme of power...

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:15:18 H- why would you even question? Of course power moves. Because if you try to block a power surge-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:15:24 ... it will blow everything up in its wake.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:26 Hmm. Okay. Th- me and you, we could talk for a long time. Uh, because when we are doing something new, no matter how much we have mastered in the past, there is an opportunity for insecurity, doubt, and failure to convince us that we are not equipped to step into something new.

Mel Robbins 1:15:45 Mm.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:15:45 And I wrote this book coming off the heels of that moment, because if we can really grasp this concept that power is fluid, then the power that we experience in whatever stage of our life that has passed, it flows into where we are now. It may have a different expression, it may be in a different city. You may have been divorced and now you're married again. You may have been t- hands-on with the kids and now you're learning who you are now that you no longer have children. And it can feel, you can feel fragile in the process. But power flows. And so to be able to ask ourselves, "I know what power looked like then, but what does power look like for me now?" is one of the greatest questions we can ask ourselves, because it honors the fact that there is power in this moment. I just have to figure out how to tap into it and to flow with what power looks like now.

Mel Robbins 1:16:40 Well, I gotta tell you something. I got-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:16:42 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:16:42 I g- I feel I have to tell you this.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:16:45 Please.

Mel Robbins 1:16:45 Okay. I, I think you know this, and I feel permission to say this to you, this bluntly-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:16:51 Okay.

Mel Robbins 1:16:52 ... because you are a woman of deep faith-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:16:55 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:16:55 ... who has a direct connection to God. But when you talked about getting pregnant at 13 in the middle of the kind of purity culture, I just had this unbelievable sentence in my head.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:17:14 Hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:17:15 That was like, "Well, that was on purpose."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:17:18 Hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:17:19 Because that was meant to happen for you to disrupt that culture.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:17:26 Wow.

Mel Robbins 1:17:26 And for you to be the embodiment of a entirely different definition-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:17:37 Wow.

Mel Robbins 1:17:37 ... of a godly woman.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:17:46 Thank you. That's, yeah. I think we needed another definition. Thank you.

Mel Robbins 1:17:59 You had to have thought that before.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:18:00 No. No.

Mel Robbins 1:18:02 Well, 'cause you continue to do it as, as everything unfolds.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:18:06 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:18:06 Like, you continue to open the door for your entire community to envision what it means to be a woman-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:18:19 Hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:18:20 ... in an entirely different way. And it's not about one version.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:18:25 Yeah. Right.

Mel Robbins 1:18:26 It's about the freedom and the power that flows through you when you just are you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:18:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:18:34 That you're not defined by what you do. You're not defined by the mistakes that you made. You're certainly not defined by whether or not you have your virginity or not.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:18:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:18:44 That you can literally be who you want to be beyond gender, beyond the wig, beyond any mistakes that you've made, and you are the embodiment of that. As somebody that's just meeting you and that has watched your life from afar, and is inspired by your work, like, there's no doubt in my mind that that is 1,000% the work that is getting done through your life.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:19:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:19:13 You're not aware of it, but it's very clear in the context of your entire life story and your mission and the work that you have just been called to put out into the world, that that is actually what's happening.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:19:26 It makes so much make sense to me. It does. It makes so much make sense to me 'cause I just... I-

Mel Robbins 1:19:32 There is no other explanation.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:19:34 Hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:19:35 Like when you think about how much faith you have-... and you talk about being the embodiment of something and the intentionality of something. Like, let's just stay with the word intentionality.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:19:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:19:47 Like, what if you did believe, because I know you and I both believe this, that even those things that were so cringey in the moment, we know when we get to the end of the movie and we look back at the entire thing that happened, everything had an order to it.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:20:03 Wow.

Mel Robbins 1:20:04 And I think one of the most incredible skills in life that you have, that I know that I have, that I am trying to help other people have, is the ability to both stand in this moment in this frame of your movie and look back-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:20:22 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:20:23 ... and say, "Oh, of course all of those things led here."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:20:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:20:30 "And of course I would never be here holding the hand of the little me saying, 'Take this all in. Look at how far we've come,' without that thing that I once hated."

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:20:42 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:20:43 "And now I have created room to love and be compassionate for. But I can also stand in this frame and look ahead-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:20:50 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:20:51 "... and know that this is leading somewhere extraordinary." And that is what I felt compelled to tell you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:21:02 I think the idea of we needed another version of what it means to be a woman of God in a culture where there's literally one road, one path, and for, like, the undeniable grace. Like, there's just no reason for the swell of influence. Like, there's no reason. And I think I've, like-

Mel Robbins 1:21:30 Actually, there is a reason.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:21:31 Well, there is, yeah. I know. That's what I'm saying. Like, I think I've... the intentionality of God to, in the midst of while one thing is rampant, to be like, "You know what? I am gonna allow this to happen. It's not gonna make sense to anyone, but in 20 years, it's gonna make sense because I'm gonna use all of these things to create this version of Sara that is relatable and touchable for a generation that's been lost."

Mel Robbins 1:21:59 And you can't actually be relatable and untouchable-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:02 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:22:02 ... without that.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:03 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:22:04 And the other piece of this that really struck me is the word undeniable.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:08 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:22:10 And when you said there's only one path, that's actually not true.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:16 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:22:16 We've just put-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:17 Right.

Mel Robbins 1:22:17 ... the infinite other paths in a cupboard.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:19 Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And that is why I love doing what I do, and I love what Woman Evolved is, because there are all of these women with all of these different paths that have been stuffed in a cupboard, and now they're beginning to believe that, like, maybe there's another pa- like, maybe there's not just one path.

Mel Robbins 1:22:42 Yeah.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:22:42 Maybe based off of where I come from in Chicago and South Africa, like, maybe we all have a unique path, and I don't have to try and fit myself into this one way of being or disqualify myself because I don't fit in this. Like, that is what makes Woman Evolved what it is.

Mel Robbins 1:22:57 And, you know, I, I see that because you just also said, "There's just no other explanation," and I often think about that in my own story.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:05 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:23:06 Facing bankruptcy, struggling with anxiety.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:09 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:23:09 I have some dumb idea when I am drunk on bourbon to launch myself out of bed like a rocket so I can move fast enough to beat the anxiety.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:19 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:23:19 And the series of unexplainable events and coincidences, and there's no other explanation than this divine order.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:23:31 And so I am so proud of myself for saying it to you-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:23:37 ... and actually, uh, letting it live outside of me-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:42 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:23:42 ... so that it could create space for you.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:44 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:23:46 If the person listening-

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:23:49 ... takes just one thing...

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:23:52 (sighs)

Mel Robbins 1:23:53 ... from the extraordinary amount of wisdom that you have poured into us today, and they focus on one action, what do you want them to do?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:24:09 (Sighs) I would say to open that cabinet. Open that cabinet and look at every single ingredient of you, and to trust that every ingredient is going to be used in the full edit of your story. And for those of you who know a little bit about cooking, you know that there are some ingredients that we buy thinking that we're going to use them and then it gets dusty-

Mel Robbins 1:24:46 (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:24:48 ... (laughs) 'cause we never actually used it. Um, there are probably some things that you have allowed to get dusty, some dreams, some gifts, some memories that you like, um, that they have dust on them because it makes it harder for you to see them. And I would tell you to dust those ingredients off, to put them out on the counter, and to start dreaming.

Mel Robbins 1:25:17 What are your parting words?

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:25:18 Mm. Secure your wig. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:25:23 (laughs) Woo. And thank you for being with Sara Jakes Roberts and me today. Uh, I wanted to be sure to tell you, in case no one else does, that I love you. And I know Sara loves you too. (laughs)

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:25:39 For sure. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:25:41 And we believe in you. And, um, open up the cabinet and go cook up a fricking five-star meal.

Sarah Jakes Roberts 1:25:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:25:49 And I'll talk to you in a few days. And for you sitting here watching with me on YouTube, I just wanna say please share this with somebody. Don't just sit and watch. Please do something. And take a minute and subscribe to this channel, because it's really a way that you can support me in bringing you new videos every single day. And I'm sure you're looking for something really inspiring to watch, to really move you. So, I want you to check out this video next.