The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Have Better Sex: Your Guide to Romance, Intimacy, & Love From the #1 Sex Professor
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
80 min read · 16,020 words- 0:00 – 5:49
Meet the Guest
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
We tend to think of sex as something that's just a treat, right? If you even look at the language that we use around it, it's, "You get lucky," or, you know-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... "Save room for dessert." And, you know, the reality is that sex is something that needs to be prioritized. We understand the effects of exercise or the benefits of nutrition, but most of us don't really have an awareness of the basic benefits of sex.
- MRMel Robbins
Today, you're getting the guide to better sex, intimacy, and love from the number one sex professor in the world. Dr. McNichols is a professor at the University of Washington, who teaches the single most popular course, and today, you're getting a front row seat in her class. What is one adult sex ed fact about women's pleasure?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Only 18% of women can have an orgasm from penetrative sex alone.
- MRMel Robbins
Only 18%?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Let that sink in.
- MRMel Robbins
18?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
18%. And it leads to a huge epidemic of people faking orgasms, especially women faking orgasms. Over 50% of women say they have faked an orgasm at some point.
- MRMel Robbins
What is the average size of a penis?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It is about... The most popular sexual fantasy in America is- I am going to give you a roadmap to having amazing, incredible sex.
- MRMel Robbins
Hey, it's Mel, and before we get into this episode, my team was showing me 57% of you who watch The Mel Robbins Podcast here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Just hit subscribe so that you don't miss any of the episodes that we post here on YouTube. It lets me know you're enjoying the guests and the content that we're bringing you, because I wanna make sure you don't miss a thing, and I'm so glad you're here for this episode, 'cause this is a really good one. All right, let's dive in. Dr. Nicole McNichols, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Thank you, Mel. I'm so excited to be here.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm really excited that you're here, too, because I know I personally, uh, would like to be having better sex-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[chuckles]
- MRMel Robbins
... and I'm sure as you're listening, you would like to be having better sex. And so let's start with this. Dr. McNichols, what could change about my life-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... if I take everything to heart that you're about to share with us today, and I apply it to my life?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Mel, if you take all of my advice today to heart, I am going to give you a roadmap to having amazing, incredible sex. And it's not gonna be the kind of sex that you see in porn or the kind of sex that you see on shows, on TV, or that makes you feel like, "Oh, my God, that's just an unattainable goal." It's going to be the kind of sex that feels not only pleasurable, but authentically connected to who you are as a person. And I just wanna tell anyone who's listening to this podcast, this podcast episode is for you if you're in a 20-year marriage, if you are finding your way back to each other but don't quite know how, if you are newly single and trying to figure out what sex and dating are like now that you're in this new phase of your life, if you are having okay sex, but you just have this sense that it could be a bit better. I wanna really be able to speak to all of those people and tell them that I can give you the science-backed tools and roadmap toward cultivating a truly pleasurable sex life.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow!
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[chuckles]
- MRMel Robbins
Is that also true if I'm tired? [chuckles]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes!
- MRMel Robbins
[chuckles] Or I feel-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It is
- MRMel Robbins
... self-conscious about my body-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Absolutely
- MRMel Robbins
... or I haven't been with somebody in a number of years, you know?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It is. It truly is, and there- this is actually such an incredibly burgeoning area of research, because it's become so clear just how exhausted people are-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- 5:49 – 13:12
The Science-Backed Health Benefits of Great Sex
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
use around it, it's, "You get lucky," or, you know-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... "Save room for dessert." And, you know, the reality is that sex is something that needs to be prioritized. We understand the effects of exercise or the benefits of nutrition, but most of us don't really have an awareness of the basic benefits of sex. For example, we know that sex, when it's, you know, is satisfying, and consensual, and connected, it leads to increased physical health, right? It leads to increased cardiovascular health. It protects the brain against degenerative diseases. There are even some studies that it predicts longevity. So sex is something that truly is important, but even more than that, it builds ego resilience. And what I mean by that is when you prioritize pleasure, when it becomes something that you spend time cultivating in your life, you experience this upward cycle where you gain this ego resilience.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It, it fills your bucket, so to speak. It causes you to have a broadening effect. You turn outwards. You seek more sources of social support. It allows you to think more creatively, even at a basic cognitive level. The data shows that when we experience pleasure, we're able to think more creatively and abstractly. And so we tend to think that pleasure is superfluous, but the reality is, we need pleasure in our lives to be able to even just accomplish all of these things that we want to, to live the lives that we want to live. And beyond that, at a more concrete level, if we're looking at relationships specifically, we also have long-term studies looking at couples, and what we find is that, yes, you know, as most people know, sexual satisfaction and relationship satisfaction are highly correlated. But it's not the case that just improving your relationship or having high levels of relationship satisfaction are gonna naturally lead to a better sex life. What we know is that when people's sex lives improve, when they experience an uptick in sexual satisfaction, later on, they experience more relationship satisfaction. In other words, working on your sex life will improve your relationship in an important, very authentic, powerful way that really deserves attention.
- MRMel Robbins
What I love about this conversation already, I can't wait to trap my husband in a car. [laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
Be like, "Hey, let's listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast," and put this on.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
Because I think this conversation, listening to it with the person that you are in a relationship with, if you are in a relationship right now-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... could really open some things up. So I just wanna give a couple takeaways that I've gotten so far, just at the very beginning.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Great.
- MRMel Robbins
Number one, it is transformative just to switch your mindset from thinking about sex as a, "I should," "I need to," "I have to," to just it being a conversation about pleasure, and allowing pleasure in your life, and prioritizing pleasure in your life.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly, 100%.
- MRMel Robbins
The second takeaway that I got already is, you talked all about... What was it called? Ego something.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Ego resilience. [chuckles]
- MRMel Robbins
Ego resilience. And what, what does that mean, exactly?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It's, it's essentially an academic term for what we think of as resiliency, meaning you're going to be faced with life's inevitable challenges. There's going to be problems that are thrown your way, but what we don't realize is that pleasure actually fuels you to be able to meet those head-on.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
When we're given sources of pleasure, it's those negative challenges can be right there, but we're just more creative and more likely to find the people and the ideas that are gonna help us to solve those very problems. So sex is important, yes, for your health, for your well-being, for your relationship, but it's also going to play a transformative part in your life-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... that is not superfluous, but is actually absolutely essential to your well-being.
- MRMel Robbins
I've never actually looked at sex this way. Like, I'm having this huge aha moment about the role that pleasure plays in your life. Because if you really just stop and consider what Dr. McNichols is saying, if your whole life is one giant to-do list, if it's work, if it's taking care of other people, you start to feel like that's your only value.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
When you create intentionally the space to allow yourself to feel pleasure, that you deserve that as part of your life, it makes you feel like a whole person, and it also almost feels like this little space where you get to be you, and you get to experience something other than all of the demands of your life.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, exactly, and I'm here to tell you that all of us deserve that.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow! And then the final takeaway that I had, and I'd never really seen this before, is the connection between allowing pleasure into your life, creating the space for it, being intentional about it, and how that must boost your sense of self-worth.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I think all people recognize that this is an area of their lives that they would like to improve-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- 13:12 – 21:48
You Can Get Better in Bed: Simple Habits That Improve Your Sex Life
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
know instantly what turns each other on. But the reality, and this may not sound sexy, [laughing] is that sex is a skill, right? And it's, it's like any other skill that we have in our life, right? Trial and error, making mistakes. You know, I mean, this is why if you want to improve your sex life, and I think that for many women who are feeling like there's nothing that you can do to change it, that sex is just kind of the way it is, that married sex never changes, there's so much research coming out now showing the power of a sexual growth mindset. And what that is, is the ability to lean into this idea that you need to try different things, that there needs to be communication, that it's okay if you try something that just simply epically fails, and you learn to [chuckles] just laugh at it, right? And so when I talk about this idea with people, and, you know, especially my students, you know, they're, they're quick to be like, "Well, wait a minute, what about that guy that I met when I was back in spring break, Eduardo? And, you know, he did that thing with his tongue. Like, he, he really instantly knew what he was doing." I'm not saying, Mel, that sexual unicorns don't exist, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Everybody wants now Eduardo's tongue-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
-skill, tongue, you know?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And I'm telling you-
- MRMel Robbins
Like, what was Eduardo doing with his tongue on spring break?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing] So we, we need to get there.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. [laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
But I'm telling you, we can teach each other to have Eduardo's tongue.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It just is trial and error. It is accessible. I want to give you Eduardo's tongue, and I know that I can do that. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
How do you start to live with a sexual growth mindset?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
You start to lean into this idea of experimentation and failure and learning to communicate through that, right? And so when we look at couples, for example-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... and we ask them about, "You know, well, what, what do you believe about sex? What are your attitudes?"" People who have a sexual growth mindset, they say, "I do believe that sex, over time, can change, that it can improve, that if I communicate with my partner, and we learn about what turns us on, and if we engage in things like masturbation," which gets completely shamed in our culture but is a totally necessary tool to understand your body, you can learn. And you can bring those conversations, no matter how awkward or scary they may seem, to your partner, and your sex life can improve. And it won't improve overnight, and it may take some time, and there will be things that, you know, "Uh, no, actually, honey, that wasn't quite Eduardo's tongue, but let's try this instead." [laughing] But you can get there. You know, whereas people with sexual destiny beliefs, which are the opposite of sexual growth beliefs-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... they tend to think sex is what it is, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Married sex just kinda never changes. A person has a certain level of skill. It never gets better, and those are the people that really start to struggle. And it really is that mindset that is just way more predictive of sexual satisfaction than any kind of innate skill set that we think that we're simply born with.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I love that because then the first step is just literally adjusting your mindset to say, "We can make this better."
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
"We can learn how to have more pleasure together. We can experiment and have fun." You know, for the person who's listening, who really just wants more sex or better sex, what is the biggest misconception that is keeping them stuck from having more or better sex?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I think in the context of relationships, it's that an amazing sexual experience begins with feeling wildly turned on and excited the minute your partner walks in the door. But for the vast majority of us, you know, especially women who are in long-term relationships and who have a lot of things on their plate, desire might be something that kicks in only after you've started touching-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... your partner. Sometimes we need to get out there and actually be trying an action, and then we realize, "Oh, this is actually really fun. This feels really good. My mind and my body do want this." And so in learning tools to sort of allow yourself to get into the mindset where you can be physically intimate with your partner and be touching your partner and be connected to your partner-... I think people don't realize that sex can be incredible even when it comes from that place. And if you think about it-
- MRMel Robbins
That place of like, "I don't really feel like it, but I know I want better sex-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes!
- MRMel Robbins
-so I'm gonna reach over and touch you even though-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... I'm not turned on." I think a lot of times- okay, this is probably about to turn into my own personal-
- 21:48 – 23:46
Foreplay Tips
- MRMel Robbins
average woman, like, to turn on, so to speak?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I mean, one of the most common refrains is, "I need more foreplay." [laughs] Right? And so yes, you know, a- a- and that revolves around this idea that we tend to treat sex according to this very heteronormative scri- script, where you start kissing, you start touching, maybe there's a little bit of oral, you go to penetration, he has an orgasm, and it's over, right? Very sad script.
- MRMel Robbins
Everyone's thinking-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right?
- MRMel Robbins
... "Were you in my bedroom last night-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... Dr. McNichols?"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
"What?"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right, we need to, we need to throw that out, right? This is one of the reasons that we find a huge orgasm gap, is that we rely so heavily on, you know, that idea of penetrative sex being put on a, on a pedestal. Um, it's also why when we look at queer couples, they tend to have more equal and higher levels of orgasm rate because they're not just starting from the position of, oh, you know, sex equals penetration, and then he comes, and it's over. But if we're regularly setting, you know, apart time with our partner to allow us to transition mentally and calm our nervous systems, right, allow our nervous systems to sync up, connect with each other, not just about our days but about larger things happening in our lives that we're excited or anxious or worried about, and really feeling seen and heard in that moment, if we're setting, again, this time for intimacy, that's going to lead to much better and more frequent sex. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, it makes sense.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What, what is one adult sex ed fact, Dr. McNichols, about women's pleasure that most people were never taught but can, like, change your sex life immediately?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
The reality that most people are not taught
- 23:46 – 26:57
The Orgasm Gap
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
is that only 18% of women can have an orgasm from penetrative sex alone.
- MRMel Robbins
Only 18%?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Let that sink in.
- MRMel Robbins
18?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
18%. The rest-... needs some kind of clitoral stimulation, either in conjunction while you're having penetrative sex or on its own. So w- when I teach this and show this data in my class, I have so many people on the edge of their seats, right? Women feeling normalized, right? My female students feeling like, "God, I thought I was broken, that I couldn't have, you know, sex just from normal," you know, as we call it in the literature, penis-in-vagina sex. Um, and also men who feel like, "Oh, my God, this explains it. I thought it was a failure on my part, that I wasn't, you know, doing sex right," right?
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
"That I was failing," you know? But unfortunately, we don't teach people that, and it leads to a huge epidemic of people faking orgasms, especially women faking orgasms, which does not lead to anyone's pleasure at all.
- MRMel Robbins
Is it true... I, I read in your book that the human clitoris was only mapped out in 2015. That's just a decade ago.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It, it was, it was actually 2005-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... but it took about 10 years for it to come into mainstream literature. Isn't that wild, Mel? I mean, if you think about it, right? I mean, and the reason why, of course, is that the clitoris' only purpose is sexual pleasure. It plays zero role in reproduction, and so historically, you know, because female sexual pleasure has been placed in this framework of not important, right, if anything, threatening, it was just ignored. It was viewed as inconsequential. But luckily, in 2005, a very famous scientist, Dr. Helen O'Connell, through MRI studies, was able to map its full structure, and it completely turned on, on its head everything we know about female pleasure and everything we know about female anatomy.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow!
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, it's shocking, but not. Dr. McNichols, in all of your research and your teaching and writing your best-selling book, you have identified that there are myths that people believe about sex that keep you alone every night. I wanna go through them. Myth number one, Dr. McNichols, is believing that your genitals are supposed to look a certain way, and that there's a normal way for them to look.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. That is a huge myth that causes so much insecurity, right? People think that their labia are supposed to have a certain perfect ratio of the outer labia and the inner labia, which usually hang a little bit below or come peek outside the outer labia. So vulvas come in all beautiful shapes and sizes, but penises also come in all different lengths and widths.
- MRMel Robbins
What is the
- 26:57 – 28:06
Does Penis Size Matter?
- MRMel Robbins
average size of a penis?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It is about five and a half inches.
- MRMel Robbins
Erect?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Erect, yes, exactly, which is not nearly as big as what we're used to seeing in porn or on the internet.
- MRMel Robbins
So for somebody who's listening that has, for their entire lifetime-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... shamed themselves because they believe they are too small-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... Dr. McNichols, what do you want them to know?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I want you to know that the size of your penis does not matter at all in terms of h- its ability to pleasure another person-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... that you are experi- capable of experiencing just as much pleasure as any other person with a penis, and that it is not a measure of your manhood in any kind of way or form. You don't need an enormous, ridiculously huge penis to be having great sex. If you do, great! Congratulations. High five. That's awesome, but it is not a prerequisite to incredible orgasms and sex.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, another myth, Dr. McNichols, that people believe
- 28:06 – 30:35
How Long Does It Take to Orgasm?
- MRMel Robbins
is that if you don't orgasm fast or you take too long, that there's something wrong with you.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, and so this is particularly true, I think, among women.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
First of all, if you're looking at, you know, a sexual experience, on average, a woman has an orgasm about 10 to 15 minutes in, right? For a male, it's five minutes within the beginning of penetration, right, or the beginning of stimulation. So most women, right, in the context of partnered sex, at least in the context of, of straight sex, if they're having any kind of an orgasm from penetrative sex, it's having a lot later in than it is for a man. That is normal. Just because it takes a little bit longer does not mean at all that it is less intense or less pleasurable, right? We tend to be so incredibly focused on numbers, right? If you even look at the language around sex, achieving orgasms, right, finishing, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
We're, we're so numbers and goal-oriented. It's okay if it takes a little bit longer. In fact, that's better, right? It means that it's more exploratory, that... right, it's a longer experience. But the other thing is just coming back to the importance of the clitoris. Although we find that women in having partnered sex, right, with- in the context of straight sex, will have, you know, an orgasm later in than men, when you look at the speed with which an orgasm occurs for men and women when they're masturbating, it's exactly the same. It's about four to five minutes.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, I just wanna make sure I heard that-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... and that as you're listening or watching on YouTube, you got that.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
That the average length of time that it's takes a woman to have an orgasm is about 15 minutes if you're-... full-on intercourse.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
But if you're masturbating-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... men and women achieve orgasm within four to five minutes.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Just 'cause we know what we're doing.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly, 'cause we know what we're doing. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
[laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And we tend to be stimulating the clitoris, right? Again, penetrative sex is incredible, but it's not the most efficient path towards orgasm, right? It's wonderful for things to take longer, but you're not weird if you're taking longer having a type of sex
- 30:35 – 36:47
How to Stop Faking Orgasms: What to Say to Your Partner
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
that just naturally isn't designed to be stimulating the parts of you that are most important when it comes to pleasure.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, and what's interesting is that since we began with you basically saying, "Let's flip our mindset, and let's really think about your sex life as allowing pleasure in"-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... the second you focus on whether or not you're going to orgasm, now you're in the burden zone-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... versus just being in the moment and allowing whatever it is to feel good.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And it's that kind of pressure that leads to so many women faking orgasms, right? Over 50% of women say they have faked an orgasm at some point. And when you interview them and ask for the reasons, it's because often they felt like they had to protect their partner's feelings, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
That if they didn't orgasm, that they'd be making their partner feel like it- they just weren't a man, right? Or that they just weren't, you know, a good sexual partner, and that it would lead to sort of this dynamic where y- one person felt insecure and rejected, and it just leads to more and more pressure. And again, the more pressure you're putting on the sexual experience, the less likely you are to enjoy it, right? The less likely it is to be pleasurable.
- MRMel Robbins
I think 50 percent's probably a low number.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, you know, if you're being honest with yourself-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... you've faked an orgasm to either finish things-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and be done with it, or because it's taking too long, and now up- you're up in your head, and you're not enjoying it, and now you don't want them to feel bad, so it's like an out.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
The trick to pleasurable sex isn't this innate ability to have an orgasm that is just somebody's permanent skill set, right? It's through communication. It's through being able to use phrases like, "Guide me," or, "Show me what you want," or, "Is this feeling good?" or, "Should I do more of this?" or, "Show me what you like." It's using, you know, s- slight shifts in position or slight shifts in, you know, initiating something that feels really good to you. It's using sighs and moans to, again, communicate what's working, right? And so it's shutting down honest communication if you're just shutting y- yourself off from your partner by faking an orgasm-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... and essentially using deception, right? And if you think about the couple that's been together maybe for 20, 30 years, and there's been a repeated pattern of faking orgasms, it can be a really hard place to all of a sudden, you know, 20 years in, say, "Honey, I've actually been faking orgasms all this time," right? And all of a sudden, it's, it's sort of this monumental time when you're like, "Oh, my gosh, our sex life just hasn't been what I thought it was." Right now, there is a path back from that.
- MRMel Robbins
What is it?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It's first you need to figure out what does turn you on. You need to masturbate. You need to, whether it's on your own, in the shower with one of the amazingly creative, technologically advanced sex toys we now [laughing] have available to us, you need to learn what the types of touch and sensation are that make you feel at home and connected to your body.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
You need to give yourself permission to maybe take longer, like we talked about, than what the whole world has taught you is necessary and expected, right? And it's through communication, right? And this might look like having a conversation with your partner, right, where you say, "Look, I know this topic is really awkward, but it's important to us, and I want sex to be as pleasurable as it is, and so let's have an actual conversation," right? And this is why in my book, I give all sorts of questions that couples can ask each other to try to improve the sex that's in their relationship.
- MRMel Robbins
I, th- I have so many thoughts. I am so happy you're here because I do believe that if you listen to this conversation with your partner, it will open the door. And I applaud anybody that is willing to say out loud to somebody, "I really wanna work with you to improve this." My husband did that in our relationship four years ago. Now, we're gonna be married 30 years this year, and I remember when he came to me and said, "You know, one of my goals this year is that we really lean in and improve our sex life." And when he first said that, Dr. McNichols, I was like, "What do you mean? What's wrong with it? Th- th- what am I not doing? And now I have to do more?" Like, it just was this... And the poor guy is just trying to connect-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
... around something so important, and I remember feeling very much like I'm doing something wrong.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right, and I think so many couples struggle with that.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It can immediately feel like a rejection or, "Wait. Oh, my God, you mean you're- are you not happy in our sex life? I- is something missing? Is it, is it not as good as I thought it was?" And so, yeah, learning to have those larger conversations where you ask each other really important questions, but you have to frame it as-... I love you, right? This is important to us, to me, to you, right? Sexual intimacy is something I would really love to focus on, and I'm attracted to you, and I love you so much, and this is an area of our life that I feel like we should work on because it's fun-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- 36:47 – 41:00
How to Improve Sex in a Long-Term Relationship
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
if you are stressing what's working, stressing what's positive, right, talking about, "Well, what's the best sex we've ever had," right? Or, "What helps you to feel the most turned on? What are different types of micro novelty that we could introduce?"
- MRMel Robbins
What's a micro novelty?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Oh, micro novelty is... So we've all heard that novelty is critical in with, you know, keeping sex alive, um, but we tend to be scared of it, right? We think that novelty means, you know, going to the sex shop, buying the whip, getting the, the, the paddle, right? Or that we have to become almost a completely different person in order to have novelty and experience the sex life we want. But the reality is that, you know, yes, novelty is important, and the research shows that couples who introduce some form of novelty once a month or more, right, so a total of 12 times a year we're talking, experience greater levels of sexual satisfaction than couples who engage in less novelty. So it is important. It doesn't need to look like swinging from the chandeliers.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause I was gonna say, the, the paddles and the whips and stuff sound like macro-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... novelty for me. [laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
They're macro. You- And, and if that's what you're into, go for it, right? By all means. I have a whole chapter in my book if you [laughing] are, are interested in exploring that. But it could be trying a different technique, right, a different type of touch that I go deeply into, right? Read chapters two and three, where I talk about all these different types of touch and technique that can be really pleasurable. It could be setting the mood in a slightly different way, right? We have research showing that couples in long-term relationships who set the mood and-
- MRMel Robbins
Sure
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... and, you know, this is sort of, you know, sweet, and you can take with this w- with a grain of salt, but couples who say, "I love you," during sex report higher levels of sexual satisfaction. Kissing, kissing more during sex increases the chances of orgasm among women and increases sexual satisfaction, right? So it might be having sex at a slightly different time of day, right? Maybe instead of saving it until the end of the day when you're exhausted or after a huge meal, you schedule it for before you go out to dinner or before you go out at night or earlier in the day, right? It could be that you've noticed that the best sex of your life happens when you're on vacation. Maybe it's, you know, making an effort to schedule more time to go away, just the two of you, or get a hotel in the city you live. Why do you have to be traveling to, you know, do that, even just for a single night? Or it could be introducing, you know, a blindfold or one of these types of, you know, sensation play that doesn't involve any kind of pain. Maybe a little pinwheel. Maybe it's ice cubes, right? Maybe the blindfold, you know, which increases your attention to-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... your body, the sensations you're, you're experiencing. All of these things, you know, you don't have to be, again, you know, whipping out the paddle. You can, but it's not necessary.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I mean, the sleep mask is right there next to the bed.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It's right there!
- MRMel Robbins
I could probably be using it. [laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Just put the sleep mask on. [laughing] When you-
- MRMel Robbins
Normally, that signals something else-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right, exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... but, you know, you could introduce micro novelty-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... where you're like, "Let's go."
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Maybe, okay, I think on your sleep mask, w- it could be double-sided, so, like, one side means sleep, but the other side is your clue. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
Sex-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Your partner sex
- MRMel Robbins
... is what it means.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Sleep versus sex.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. And, you know, the beauty of things like a, a mask or, you know, any kind of when you're cutting off one sensation, you're automatically, your body is compensating by tuning in to other sensations. So you are immediately going to be more sensitive to touch, and you're also going to be sort of more in the present because you're going to be so focused on that type of touch because your body's relying on it.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. McNichols, another myth that people believe about sex is that if you fantasize about something, it
- 41:00 – 48:07
Sexual Fantasies Explained: Does a Fantasy Mean You Really Want It?
- MRMel Robbins
must mean you really want it, and you feel guilty for even thinking about it.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I really wish I could free people from the shame that they experience around their sexual fantasies. There's wonderful research on it that exists now, and one of the major takeaways is that people fantasize about really wild, diverse things and that what you fantasize about is not necessarily what you want in real life.
- MRMel Robbins
So, Dr. McNichols, how do you want us to think about our sexual fantasies?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I want you to, first of all, normalize whatever fantasy you're having.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right? So for those of you who are wondering, the most popular sexual fantasy in America is threesomes. So let's take that as an example, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Multi-partnered sex. Not everyone that is having a fantasy about threesomes actually wants to have-... a threesome, right? In other words, a lot of people might kind of have that fantasy. It gets them turned on. Maybe they even think about it when they're masturbating, but the reality of a threesome feels overwhelming, unappealing. Do you... You know, how would that even work? I mean, personally, I know with my ADHD, I don't think it would- uh, it's too much. It's [laughing] -
- MRMel Robbins
I fall in that category.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah, um, but it doesn't mean that it's not natural to fantasize about it. Same thing with taboo activities, right? Having sex in a public place, right? Public sex is a very common sexual fantasy. Having sex in the airplane bathroom-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right? Having sex in a situation where you might get caught, right? Very, very common. They're tied to certain interesting personality correlates, but they don't necessarily predict what we want to have happen in real life. It's not just that we're having fantasies about wild, kinky things. The reality is that all of us really want to be desired, right? Feeling like somebody else really wants you is a huge aphrodisiac, which I don't know if you've seen the show Heated Rivalry.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, for anybody who has not seen this show-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
... this show, right now, as we're taping this conversation, everybody's talking about it. It's about two male pro hockey players-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... who are arch rivals-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... who fall crazy, madly, obsessively in love with each other.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
I binge-watched it with my husband.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Love that.
- MRMel Robbins
Never in a million years did I think a television series about two male hockey players falling in love and having sex would be one of the biggest turn-ons ever. Like, it's helped my sex life so much to watch-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, me, too! [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
... Heated Rivalry. I'm like, why? And I was really thinking about this, 'cause I think it was observing the just desire-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... on your knees, take your pants off, and after 30 years of marriage, watching this show, I'm like, " [gasps] Oh, my God, I remember that-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
-Chris."
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. [laughing]
- 48:07 – 50:53
Is Sexuality Fluid? Exploring Attraction, Identity, and Sexual Orientation
- MRMel Robbins
that if you're still kind of figuring out your sexual identity, that there's something wrong with you.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes. So we now know from so much research, um, Siri Van Anders, Lisa Diamond, so many incredible researchers in this field, that show how fluid sexuality can be and how multidimensional, right? Meaning that sometimes the, you know, sexual orientation that you start out having stays consistent throughout your life, but a lot of times it evolves, right? A lot of times you may not be totally sure who you're attracted to, and you kind of discover it later on in, you know, adulthood or through college years. You know, there's, you know, especially so much stigma, particularly towards people who identify as bisexual, right? Bec- the bisexual community in general, you know, is faced with this idea of, "Oh, you're just weird. You haven't decided yet what you are. You're just on a pathway to being gay." But the reality is that a lot of people are attracted to more than one gender, and that's okay. And in fact, when you look at, you know, women who identify as bisexual, they tend to have that not as, like, just this phase that they go through-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... and then later on become gay or straight, but it actually tends to be more often the case that they transition towards being bisexual.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
You know, and that's important to point out because 23% of Gen Z nowadays identifies under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella, and of that group, 80% identify as bisexual. So I think that, you know, it's time that we celebrate that fluidity, that multidimensionality. That doesn't mean that you're secretly hiding your real sexual orientation. It just means that we're complex, and sometimes what we enjoy in our imagination is just what makes us uniquely human, and sometimes it doesn't translate into what we want in real life. So it's multidimensional, and it just also depends on the particular domain, fantasy, imagination, you know, what you actually want in real life. It can vary ac- across those contexts as well.
- MRMel Robbins
I love- [chuckles] ... that answer and that context and framing-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Thank you
- MRMel Robbins
... 'cause it just makes you feel normal.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
And it helps you put the fantasies or the things that turn you on into context of just the importance of desire and pleasure in general in your life.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
So helpful. Um, a final myth that you talk about related to sex is that if you are into non-traditional sexual activities or kink or whatever else, that it's weird or it's unhealthy,
- 50:53 – 53:40
Kink 101: How to Add Kink Into Your Sex Life
- MRMel Robbins
or there's something wrong with you.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, so there is, unfortunately, this long history of shame towards people who are kinky, right? And the idea is that if you are kinky, you must have experienced childhood abuse.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right? That's a major myth, and that you are just trying to relive this abuse over and over and over again. And this myth is so per- so pervasive that there's actual s- actual studies showing that this is not the case, right? There have been studies looking at people who are kinksters and looking at their-- you know, interviewing them about their childhoods. No, actually, the majority were not abused [chuckles] as children. Um, what it is is, you know, a need for novelty, right? And excitement. And, you know, this is, again, almost something that is being thought of as almost, you know, part of the sexual orientation research, which is that some people want connection and slowness and reassuredness and stability and security and prediction and control in their sexual experiences, and some people are just oriented to want excitement, thrill, maybe le- maybe entering into a headspace that is absolutely, completely opposed to the headspace and identity that you have in the rest of your life, and that can actually be a healing thing. I want to normalize people having all different forms of sexual expressions and interests. And look, kink is something that more and more people are getting into, but again, because of the media that they see, they don't understand that it involves consent. It involves having conversations ahead of time about what you're into, what you're not into, what you want to feel, what your safe word is. And so I want to be able to normalize that because, I mean, here's the reality, Mel, is that those lessons that we often learn from the k- community in terms of consent and communication throughout the whole experience, they're not just relevant to people who are practicing kink. They actually can help all of us. Really, it really models how consent and that ongoing checking in with a partner throughout the whole experience can make sex better. It can make it hotter. It can add that excitement and that, and desire and that thrill. So I feel like by showing them, you know, I'm normalizing something that somebody in the audience, many are probably thinking, "Okay, wow, I've always fantasized about that, and I thought I was weird or broken or wrong," and we're talking about this in a really open way.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. McNichols, can you talk to us about the clitoris?
- 53:40 – 1:01:14
How to Find the Clitoris: A Simple, Accurate Guide
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I actually brought some friends with me that could illustrate what we know now.
- MRMel Robbins
Absolutely.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Let's go there-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Okay
- MRMel Robbins
... Dr. McNichols. Here we go.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Let's do it.
- MRMel Robbins
And if you're listening, um, and you're not watching on YouTube-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[chuckles]
- MRMel Robbins
... you, you have picked up, it is- this is like a stuffed toy. What is that?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... This is my lovely stuffed plushie clitoris and vulva that shows the external structures as well as the internal structure.
- MRMel Robbins
It looks like a purpley-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
-clam almost.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughs] It does.
- MRMel Robbins
With, like, a little baby in the middle of the clam-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... wearing, like, a hooded towel.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It's cute. Exactly. Oh, my gosh. So I'm holding my stuffed clitoris. What I'm going to point to first is what you, Mel, pointed out as what looks like [laughs] -
- MRMel Robbins
A little baby head
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... a little baby head. [laughs] And this is at the top of the vulva. And just to orient you, on the outside it has what are known as the outer lips of the vagina, which are the labia majora.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And then we have inside, we have the inner labia, which are the labia minora.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Before we go any further, the inner labia are really critically important, because they have tons of nerve endings in them.
- MRMel Robbins
They do?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
They do. Tons of nerve endings that are really related to sexual pleasure.
- MRMel Robbins
Huh.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And so people do what I call gun it for the clit in the beginning of sexual pleasure. You do not want to gun it for the clit, because the clit starting out is going to be very sensitive.
- MRMel Robbins
Sensitive, yeah.
- 1:01:14 – 1:08:48
A Guide to Clitoral Orgasms: How to Give and Receive Pleasure
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
you know, fact that this is only two to three inches inside, it's showing you that you don't need some enormous porn-size- sized tool to get in there. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
That literally, for a woman, right after you enter the vagina, it's just a short amount of space-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It is
- MRMel Robbins
... right inside that is swelling-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... where all of those nerve endings are.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. And so again, so this is the vagina, where this clitoris is wrapping around internally. If you are, you know, again, sticking your two fingers, anything inside-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... this, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Where, you know, man, woman, whoever you are, and you're stimulating the top part-
- MRMel Robbins
And Dr. McNichols is-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... literally sticking her two fingers out.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And you're now, like, lifting up.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. The way I describe it to my students, it's kind of like the Spider-Man technique, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, you're gonna spray.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
You're gonna-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, I got it.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
You're- right, like this, and then you're kinda going like that, like a waving motion.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, oh, okay, and she's making like a come hither.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Come hither. A come hither motion.
- MRMel Robbins
Ooh, we both said come hither-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing] I love that
- MRMel Robbins
... 'cause that's kind of sexy. It's not like, "Come over here." It's come hither.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
We're in tune. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, you're, like, stroking it like Spider-Man.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- 1:08:48 – 1:17:11
Painful Sex During Menopause: Causes, Solutions, and What Helps
- MRMel Robbins
years old, and she writes in, "Dr. McNichols, I want to have sex, but it hurts now. I'm dry, it burns, and I'm starting to dread intimacy because I'm scared it's going to be painful. Is this just menopause? Is there anything I can do?"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
It absolutely can be menopause. That sounds like menopause to me, and we are in a fabulous time right now, where there has been so much more awareness brought to the impact of perimenopause and menopause. You know, it's a time when, look, levels of progesterone and estrogen are rapidly declining, and that's going to have the effect on the vagina of making lubrication harder. There can be atrophy of the vaginal walls, and yes, that can lead to sexual pain. But sex should not be painful, right? It should absolutely never be something that you're just suffering through. And so I think it's amazing that we now have, you know, the black box warning from HRT therapy removed, that people, you know, are taking, you know, different types of hormones. You know, I, I personally will say that I take it. It has been transformative in my own life, taking estrogen and progesterone. Testosterone therapy has also been really revolutionary for women. W- we don't know that we have testosterone in our bodies, and actually, we lose it dramatically during menopause. And by introducing just small amounts of it to get it back to where it was in our 30s and 40s, can have a huge effect on our sex drive. So I, you know, want to be careful because I'm not, uh... I'm not a do- I'm not a doctor, I'm not a medical provider. I can just speak from my experience and from what I've read, you know, myself, which is that it can absolutely be hugely helpful, as can things like estrogen creams, which can simply be applied directly to the vagina.
- MRMel Robbins
So if you're in menopause-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... and you're going through hormonal changes, or perimenopause-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... and you're experiencing dryness, other than HRT, what-- is there anything else? Like, use lube-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Lube
- MRMel Robbins
... this is your body. Okay.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, exactly. So there are so many beautiful types of organic, flavored, name your, your, what you like kind of lube, that we should all be having and displaying beautifully on our nightstands, right? [laughing] And it's, you know, it's uh, just... We've come so far in the types of lube that are available, um, that can be wonderful, right? And aren't- don't have to be messy, and can be fun to use, and can really just make sex, you know... In general, I tell people, the wetter, the better. So the more lubrication you can have down there, the better off you're going to be. Um, and estrogen creams, too, right? That can really help to rebuild the tissue, you know, around the vulva, can be helpful. When we talk about menopause, and we talk about perimenopause, I want to also just bring up that obviously, as thrilled as I am for those conversations, I don't want women to lose sight of the fact that there are other very real things happening in your sex life that-... could be influencing your desire, right? So for example, if you are feeling, you know, stressed out and exhausted and overwhelmed and taking care of everybody else's needs, right, when we look at all the variables impacting women, that can have just as much of an effect on lowering your level of desire as can the hormones, and equally needs to be addressed, right? Whether it is through having conversations with your partner about perhaps how to rearrange different divisions of labor in the household, right? The more you have a partner that can lean in and help you to, you know, feel like you are y- achieving your dreams and that you are able to have support where you need it. And, you know, even-- you know, I tell people, I don't think mystery is the secret to keeping passion alive. I think it's gratitude. I think it's really being able to appreciate all that our partners do to, you know, help us, help our families, that the ways that they lean in, right? Because so often it can be sort of these hidden culprits in your relationship, these tiny resentments that can start to grow if you feel like you're not appreciated, or if you feel like you're just simply not seen or not heard in your relationship. And we need to understand everything and be interested in everything about our partner. You know, not just what they did that day, but what they want, what they're interested in, what they're worried about, what their insecurities are, what the details are of the hobby that they're really into, what the details are of the work that they're working on. Because the more that we can see in relationships, the more we feel connected and see each other, the more we feel heard, the more gratitude we express, that is going to be a pathway, I think, into that desire that we all crave, that really sets the tone for a healthy sex life.
- MRMel Robbins
So when you say gratitude-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... are you talking to our spouse? That they need to be more grateful for us because I-- you know, like, when you hear it, and you're also the mom and the wife, and you're taking care of everything, and you're exhausted, and your hormones are all over the place, and, and, and, and, and, and, and you're last on your list, feeling grateful for your partner d- is like: Are you kidding me? Don't they need to be grateful for me so that I-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... want to have sex with you?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
So talk to me about this gratitude piece.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I hope that you are listening to this with your partner, because I want you to both experience gratitude. But yes, I think especially for women who are in relationships where you are working to manage everybody else's needs, maybe you have a career as well on top of that. You are, you know, thinking about the kids' parent-teacher conference that's coming up, or the dog that ate the crayon set last night, and it's your-- you know, now you've got to call the vet and figure out exactly what's going on. [chuckles] There's so many responsibilities. You're doing so much, and to the extent that your partner, right, your husband or whoever you are with, can lean in and recognize that, right? Really understand just the enormous amounts of emotional and invisible labor that you are undertaking, that is a huge aphrodisiac. That is going to help you feel needed, feel seen, feel appreciated, right? Distance does not make the heart grow fonder; gratitude does. We need to be appreciating all that our partners are doing. And yes, of course, this goes in the other direction, right? Understanding that the men in our lives or our partners are also doing so much, are under a lot of stress, are-- maybe don't have the ways to find the support that they need because of this culture we live in, that underprioritizes being able to take, you know... give proper attention to men's feelings and insecurities, right? He might be feeling a sense of anxiety about things that would really help him to feel more connected to you, too, if he could talk about it. But the most important thing is to feel like your needs are being recognized, that the amount you are doing is appreciated, because when we feel appreciated, we feel seen, and when we feel seen, that turns on our desire.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, our next question is from Maya, 41,
- 1:17:11 – 1:24:11
Navigating Hookup Culture: How to Explore Casual Sex Without Forcing It
- MRMel Robbins
Chicago: "I've been single for years, and it's like my sex life just disappeared. I miss intimacy, but dating feels exhausting. I feel rusty and insecure. How do I rebuild desire and confidence when it's been so long, without forcing myself into hookups I don't want?"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
So being newly single, I just want to really normalize that. It can be a scary time, right? Whether you are young and still navigating sex and dating culture in your 20s, or if you're in your 40s or 50s and newly single after being divorced, or, you know, it can feel scary being with a new sexual partner, right? Whether it's been many, many years, or if it's just an ongoing part of your life. And so understanding that when you s- show up sexually, first of all, with a person, again, it's having this growth mindset. You shouldn't just be assuming that the sex you're going to be having is gonna have to instantly, out of the gate, be absolutely perfect. It's letting go of these ideas of perfection and normalizing, you know, maybe you feel a little bit different in your body. It's going to take a little bit of time to get back, but-... in terms of this anxiety around casual sex and dating culture, I wanna speak to that specifically because we are in now, you know, I describe it to my students as a culture of chill. It's literally a time when it is very cool to not have- you don't want to catch feelings, quote, unquote, right? We don't wanna come across as being needy or as codependent, right? We have all of this language around what is a very basic human need, which is to simply be made to feel like our needs matter. And so when you're looking at casual sex and hookup culture in general, right, it helps to first know that it is possible to have wonderful casual sex experiences, right? It is possible. You know, when we look at the literature, you know, we, we do see that absolutely... In fact, if you're even just looking at, you know, younger people, where m- the majority of casual sex research has been performed on, that, you know, there are about a third of people who report having great casual sex, about a third who report that it's meh, kind of good, kind of bad, meaning they felt it was exciting, it was pleasurable, but they just kind of felt maybe a little disappointed in themselves, or they felt a little bit, you know, not great about the whole experience. It felt maybe a little empty and disconnected. And then there's a whole third of people who felt like it just was a really crummy experience. Look, I think like a quarter of 40-year-olds, I just read, are now single, and, you know, if we look at, you know, the average age of marriage, it's 31. We have a lot of people in the population who are trying to navigate singlehood and casual sex and may not be ready for a long-term relationship. And so the question becomes, can we look to the data and try to understand what predicts a really positive, pleasurable, exciting sexual experience versus one that leaves you feeling empty and maybe a little bit shook, right? And what we find is, you know, a couple of interesting things. First of all, it really largely boils down to motivation. You know, in other words, if you are looking at the sexual experience and coming from a place where you want excitement, and it's adventure, and it would feel good and to be pleasurable, and it's sort of the thrill of the chase, and it seems exciting, you are probably more likely to have a positive experience. We tend to have more negative casual sex experiences when you're doing it because you're secretly hoping it's gonna lead to more, but you don't quite know how to ask for that, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And again, because we live in this culture that makes you feel like you're needy if you ask ahead of time, "You know, I'm not quite sure where things stand, you know. Can you let me know?" Or, "I can't quite tell what you want. You know, I'm really into you. This is really exciting. I love spending time with you. I'm really attracted to you, but I'm not that into casual sex, so is it any... You know, can we have a conversation about kind of where we are?" Right? Versus, you know, also normalizing phrases like, "Are you okay if this is just for fun," right? "Are you okay if this is just about a night of excitement," right? It- in other words, part of the problem is that because we put so much shame on casual sex experiences, we need to feel like we need to hide our motivation if that's really what we're looking for. And by acknowledging that sex can be satisfying in a variety of contexts, what we're really doing is empowering people to say, "Know what you want," right? "Go after what you want." Are you the kind of person that feels like casual sex could be fun, that maybe, you know, while you're single and exploring your sexuality again, and maybe looking for excitement, that it could be something that's pleasurable? Great, right! Don't feel shy about having it, right? Make sure that you find a partner who is, you know, emotionally there and mature, and that who you really connect with. You know, or is casual sex just something that you know in the back of your head is not right for you, right? Some of us are just not wired to be having unattached, casual sex, and that is also very okay, right? You're not, you're not not sex-positive if you don't like hooking up. You're not not empowered if you don't like hooking up. You're not not confident if you don't like hooking up. You just aren't wired- it's okay, right? So it's just about normalizing this and giving people the tools to know what they want, so that you can go out and choose and only agree to the sexual experiences that truly make you happy.
- MRMel Robbins
What I love about the question you just gave us, "Are you okay if this is just for fun tonight?"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... is that before you ask it of the other person, you should ask it of yourself.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Because I do think we gaslight ourselves, women in particular, into believing that if I go along with the casual sex, if I drink, and I'm down to you know what, that somehow that's gonna lead to something meaningful and long-term.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Now, in the research, is there any breakdown in terms of-... men versus women?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
There are some gender differences, but they're not nearly as extreme as what the media portrays
- 1:24:11 – 1:25:51
Do Only Men Want Casual Sex? The Truth About Desire (Men vs. Women)
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
them to be.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And we see this in the literature, but we also- I mean, I could even just tell you, when I poll the thousands and thousands of students that come through my class, and I look, for example, at that group that says the casual sex experience was amazing, there are slightly more men than women who report that, but the difference is not nearly as big as you might think.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Right? And one group, the data does show, is particularly good at having positive sexual- casual sex experiences are older women who might be newly single and maybe don't feel like they have the pressure to settle down, and they, you know, feel a bit more confident, and they, they feel like they're better able to speak up, right? And that does a couple of things, because if you're in that position, you'll feel better asking for what it is that brings you pleasure. So in other words, if you are having an orgasm, if it's truly pleasurable, it's more likely to be a positive experience for you. I don't want to underemphasize or dismiss the fact that, yes, a sexual double standard still exists. Women are going to be judged more harshly. It's also more dangerous because they're physically smaller on average-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... for sure. Casual sex does, for that reason, carry more risks. But I think that, you know, I mean, in terms of emotional intimacy, yes, there is data showing that for women, especially when there is emotional intimacy, they tend to be more likely to enjoy sex and to have orgasms.
- MRMel Robbins
Here's another listener question:
- 1:25:51 – 1:29:50
How Busy Parents Can Rebuild Intimacy With No Time or Privacy
- MRMel Robbins
"We have two kids. We're exhausted, and our house has zero privacy. By the time we get to bed, we're done. How do you rebuild a sex life when life is chaos and you can't just, quote, 'schedule a date night every week?'"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
I mean, isn't that the fundamental challenge? And I, I can really relate to this. You know, I've got two teenagers, an 11-year-old, and I remember, especially when they were a lot younger, it's exhausting. It's hard to carve out time where it's just the two of you, and yeah, the scheduling sex and the date night, it just feels like such tired advice, right? The first thing I want to say, though, is that your kids deserve to have parents that have a healthy sex life, because like we talked about in the beginning of this podcast, sex and pleasure are critical for your well-being. The more that you can prioritize pleasure in your lives, the more sense of joy-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... and connection that you can model towards each other, the better parents you're going to be, right? I think a big struggle parents have is that they just don't understand how important this aspect of their life is, not just to the relationship, but to their own well-being.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
And so, yeah, it does mean figuring out not just a date night, but again, this intimacy date where you're finding, what is the emotional state that I need to get into in order to feel turned on for sex? How do I like you to initiate? How do I like you to talk to me before we have sex? Are there ways that we can set the mood ahead of time? Should we be experimenting? Because if we're looking forward to a different type of novelty, then it could be something that kind of piques our interest and gets us excited and makes us pay attention to the moment more, right? So if you're having these conversations and engaging in the non-sexual physical touch and setting aside a apart time when you can connect, it will happen, right? It will absolutely be something that you can just simply close the door at night and know that you're actually doing a service to your kids by showing them that Mom and Dad have an area in their life that is just about each other, that's just about their own relationship, their own connection. That the kids are, yes, critically important, but they don't always have to be the absolute center of your life 24 hours a day, 60 minutes out of every hour. You can take 30 minutes for just the two of you and close the door, and they will be okay. They will be better off for it, and you'll be a happier person and better parent.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that. You know, one of the things that changed my sex life with Chris was when we started having sex before-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes! [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
... we went out, because I always felt bloated or a little drunk or whatever-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yep
- MRMel Robbins
... when we, you know, came back from a date night. Um, and then I didn't want to, but if you have a babysitter or a sister or friend coming over anyway to watch the kids-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Have them come an hour early.
- MRMel Robbins
Have them come an hour early! [laughing]
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
And be like, "Okay, great, we're gonna go get ready."
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And then you're having secret sex-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... which is pretty hot, and-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Very hot
- MRMel Robbins
... then you have it before you feel bloated after the meal, and-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes, and if you're a parent and have a million responsibilities, not only are you full and bloated and a little bit drunk when you get home, [chuckles] and not as able to experience pleasure, you're also exhausted. I mean, you started out tired. After that night, you're gonna be really tired. So yes, have the babysitter come an hour earlier, and enjoy it then. [laughing]
- MRMel Robbins
I love that, but I love the larger context that you deserve pleasure in your life-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... and it makes your whole life better. Um, this
- 1:29:50 – 1:37:46
Overcoming Body Image Anxiety During Sex
- MRMel Robbins
question is so relatable because it's about sex, pleasure, and how you feel about your body. And this listener writes, "After menopause and weight changes, I don't feel sexy anymore. I'm so in my head during sex that I can't relax. I avoid intimacy because I'm embarrassed. How do I get out of that spiral and feel desire again when I don't like my body?"
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
... This is so incredibly common, and there's so much research coming out just about, first of all, how much body image can get in the way of our ability to enjoy sex. It really can, as this listener is describing, bring you out of your head. Start judging yourself from a third-party perspective during sex, where you're thinking about, "Oh, my God, you know, my stomach, my thighs. Oh, God, what do I look like from this angle?" And this is not being helped by the media, which is showing us, again, totally unrealistic, airbrushed, AI-generated images of bodies that are not attainable for 99.99% of us. Um, and it's just creating a level of insecurity and anxiety that is literally activating the exact parts of your brain that need to quiet in order to enjoy sex.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
So the question is: What's the antidote? The most effective tool that you can develop to treat body image issues and their a- impact on your sex life is to develop a sense of sexual mindfulness. It is a practice that is similar to other types of mindfulness that you might practice in the rest of your life, but it literally means, during sex, bringing attention back to your breath, bringing attention back to the sensations that are in your body, looking and focusing on exactly the sexual cues that are emanating from your partner, and allowing those to guide the sexual experience. Now, just like when somebody tries to meditate, it's going to be natural while you're trying to do that for these ideas of, "Oh, my God, what does my stomach look like?" Or, "What do I look like from this angle?" That's natural. Just notice those thoughts and allow them to pass out of your brain, right? Because the reality is that the person you're having sex with, they're psyched to be there, right? They're not sitting there judging what you look like. And the reality is that you don't need to have a perfect body. You do not need to be hairless to [chuckles] or have perfectly sized genitals to have incredible sex. I think it's, it's hard to tell people, you know-- And this is where I think the body positivity movement has been both helpful, but also led us astray a little bit, in that sometimes it's not gonna feel realistic to think, "I love my body," right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
"I, I love my body. I love how I look." Like, I think for some women, that's just sort of not really realistic expectation. But if you look in front of the mirror, right, and you're standing there naked, you can probably find a part of yourself that you do love. Maybe it's your collarbone, maybe it's your lips, maybe it's your eyes, maybe it's your hair, your legs, right, your butt, and just focus on that, right? You know, I remember after each of my pregnancies, right, I gained, like, 70 pounds for each one, and your body is just fundamentally different after having kids. But for me, I know what was really helpful was instead of focusing on, "Oh, my gosh, my belly, I have a pooch now, and I'm heavier," my body had just done something incredible. It had just produced a life, right? If we can start appreciating our bodies for what they do for us, they get us to the places we want to go, they allow us to live the lives that we do, like, you start to have more of an appreciation for your body beyond just how it looks. You are desirable exactly the way you are. Your body, your genitals don't need to be perfect. It is just a question of practicing mindfulness, being at home in your body, noticing those things when they get in your way, and just bringing your sensations back home where they belong.
- MRMel Robbins
Maybe this is too pragmatic of a way to look at this, but one of the things that you've really also taught us, Dr. McNichols, is that the parts of your body that give you pleasure, they work no matter what you weigh.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yes!
- MRMel Robbins
They work regardless of what's hanging or shaking-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[chuckles]
- MRMel Robbins
-or that you don't like, and that those parts deserve to get some attention.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly. Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, so there's also this, like, focusing on 99% of your body that you hate. You got 1% that's still gonna give you an orgasm-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Yep
- MRMel Robbins
... so give that part of your body-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... a little bit of attention-
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Give it a little love
- MRMel Robbins
... for crying out loud.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
[laughing] Yes. Amen.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. McNichols, what are your parting words?
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Own your pleasure, and own your fundamental right as a human being to enjoy a healthy sex life and the physical connection and psychological well-being that that brings with it.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. McNichols, thank you, thank you, thank you for hopping on a plane and flying across country and really teaching us and empowering us about this fundamental aspect of improving our lives, which is really seeing the critical role that pleasure plays in your life and teaching us ways that we can be in control of having more pleasure. The book is You Could Be Having Better Sex. Thank you, thank you, thank you for teaching us how to have better sex.
- NMDr. Nicole McNichols
Thank you, Mel. This was such an enjoyable time. I really appreciate it.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I can't wait to hear what you do with this conversation, and so I just want to thank you for spending time listening to or watching here on YouTube and learning about sex, learning about your body, learning about having a growth mindset related to sex. I am so excited. I cannot wait to listen to this with my husband, Chris. I can't wait for you to share this with people in your life, but mostly, I'm just excited for you to experience more pleasure in your life because you deserve it, and now you understand the critical benefits of it. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And what I'm convinced of because of Dr. McNichols is that pleasure is a very important part of your life getting better, and now you got the roadmap for experiencing more of it. All righty, I will see you in the very next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play. [upbeat music] And thank you. Thank you for watching all the way to the end. Didn't you love Dr. McNichols? Oh, my gosh, they did not teach a class like this when I was in college. I'm so glad that you watched all the way to the end. Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. Thank you for sharing this with women in your life. Every one of us deserves this information, and I love how the conversation was all about pleasure and how it makes your life better. And one more thing, I know you're thinking, "Okay, Mel, shut up. What video should I watch next?" First of all, I gotta say, if that subscribe button is lit up, hit it, okay? Hit it, because that's one way that you can show me and my team that you really appreciate us bringing you these world-renowned experts for free. It's free to subscribe. It's the best way to support us, and that way, you're not gonna miss a thing. All right, next video, right here, and I will welcome you in the moment you hit play.
Episode duration: 1:37:47
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