The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Read Body Language to Get What You Want | The Mel Robbins Podcast
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,328 words- 0:00 – 3:40
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
(ticking sound) (instrumental music plays) I am really excited to introduce you to a woman that I met over a decade ago. She has spent over two decades decoding body language, trained by the FBI and the CIA. She has studied the biggest murderers on the planet in history. This is also an episode about empowerment. There are simple things that you can learn to do to gain more influence, to be more persuasive, and to exude confidence. We're gonna go true crime, murderers, and job interviews all in one episode. I can't wait for this. (instrumental music plays) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today, I am really excited to introduce you to a woman that I met over a decade ago who is one of the world's leading experts in decoding body language. So, for all you true crime junkies out there, you better buckle up, because you're about to get a master class from a woman who's not only hilarious, she's also so incredibly smart. She has spent over two decades decoding body language, trained by the FBI and the CIA. She has studied the biggest murderers on the planet in history. She can tell you what a shoulder shrug, or a lip lock, or a chin grab means. She can tell you how to decode the body language of somebody that you're dating, of the person you're working for. She can even help you understand the signaling that your kids are giving you, that they don't mean to give you when they're hiding information. But this goes way beyond decoding lies and deception. This is also an episode about empowerment, because there are simple things that you can learn to do in meetings, in interviews, on dates, with your family, to gain more influence, to be more persuasive, and to exude confidence. According to Janeen, you have untapped potential that is hiding right in plain sight, and today, she is going to pull back the curtain and she's gonna show you the secrets to increase your influence and spot deception when it rises around you. Are you ready? We're gonna go true crime, murderers, and job interviews all in one episode. I can't wait for this. Let's get Janeen on. (gasps) Ah!
- JDJanine Driver
Hi, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
I am so proud of you. You look so fabulous in yellow, and-
- JDJanine Driver
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... I can't wait to just shout you and your wisdom from the rooftops.
- JDJanine Driver
Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
And so we're gonna start at the beginning, since most people don't have the- Most people have seen you on TV. People are fans of true crime, um, these captivating, mind-blowing murder cases that really just capture our attention, and you are the expert that is on speed dial-
- JDJanine Driver
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... for every major network, to analyze body language. And so while people know you based on your expertise and wisdom that you've shared on some of these landmark cases, they don't really know your background. So, can you explain how on earth did you get into the work that you do? You've been- you've been analyzing murderers for the FBI, the CIA for decades. How did you get into this work?
- JDJanine Driver
When I was at six years old... No. If we really do go back to six, quite frankly, at six, I was molested by a next
- 3:40 – 11:16
Janine’s early childhood trauma saved her life as a teen.
- JDJanine Driver
door neighbor, and there are three types of people that are good at reading people. Kids who are abused physically, emotionally, verbally, um, they need to know when dad comes home and he puts his hat on a weird way, or cracks open the beer, or mom gets the vodka, whatever it is, that tonight's not gonna be a good night. So for me, it happened to be a next door neighbor. And by the grace of God, my mother believed me. Now, I believe today, as a swearing Christian, I believe that everything happens for my greater good. So at 16, a guy tried to kidnap me. I was going to Mister Donuts, I worked at a Mister Donut place, now a Dunkin' Donuts. I'm from Boston, like you, right? And, um, I picked up my check, I was on my bike, it was a rainy morning, it was 5:30 in the morning, 1986. E.T. came out that year. You may remember, um, little Adam Walsh went missing that year. And in my little 16-year-old brain, I just turned 16, I was thinking when this guy tried to kidnap me with his car, "He's gonna get me." I became like Liam Neeson in like a future movie, right, like, "He will get you," (laughs) you know? And, um, I swear, having that trauma when I was six saved me at 16. Um, and my little brain immediately was raining. He said, "Hey, kid, why don't we put your bike in the trunk of my car, and, uh, I'll give you a ride home." And that, you know, Malcolm, you know, um, Gavin de Becker will call it the gift of fear. The gift of fear just was like pssh. And I knew I couldn't drive 2.8 miles home 'cause he's just gonna hit me with his car. He doesn't care if I'm dead. He's gonna, he's gonna put my broken bones in the car and do whatever he's gonna do to me. But I saw BayBank one block away, and I'm like, "If I can get to BayBank, maybe my parents will have the closure," unlike Adam Walsh's family, who were looking for him. They didn't know who took him outside of a Sears parking lot. And I was like, because I, in my little 16-year-old brain, because of all the trauma at 6:06, was- it- it just began to change how I thought of the world. And I said, "If I can get to BayBank, maybe there'll be a camera," and I got there, and by what I call the grace of God, the fence behind BayBank had been ripped open, like cut open. It was a metal fence. It looked 20 feet, but it was probably only like eight feet. And I rode my- he followed me, lo and behold, right to the bank, Mel, and you at home listening, and I drove through the hole, down a- a six-foot embankment into a- a shopping, another shopping plaza, called 911. My parents are sound asleep. It's 5:30 in the morning. A police officer drives me home. My parents have no idea I've left the house.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh...My God.
- JDJanine Driver
That's where it began. Because when I went into college, I majored in English Communications, 'cause I'm fascinated about what makes human beings tick. And then I ended up getting a job with ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. I never heard of them. There originally... Elliot Ness, from the tax days, we used to be part of Treasury, now with the Justice Department, loved human behavior, how to spot if someone's lying. And I worked for ATF for 17 years, retired at 38, when I got a half a million dollar book deal with Random House to write a book, You Say When You Think. And the reason I got that is I watched a can, ca, uh, Dan Kennedy marketing video one night-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
... and he was talking to restaurant people, and he goes, "Hey, you need to say you make the best meatballs, you have the best Italian food." And if someone says, "No, I make the best meatball, Mel Robbins," now we got a cook-off and we've got media there. You and I love our media and inspiring people to look at their world in a different way with what we know. And, and I was like, "Oh, what am I an expert at?" And today they call it manifesting. And so I was like, "What am I an expert at? What do... I need to claim it." You know, "What is it?" And I went to work the next day at ATF in DC. I'm from Boston originally, and lived all over the country, Seattle, Georgia, West Virginia, and worked at the World Trade Center in New York City. And I went to work. Ben Peters always gets a be, bagel with me. He comes in, I go, "Ben, shut the door."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
"What's going on? I gotta know how to tell you this, but I'm leaving ATF. I'm a New York Times best-selling author. I go on TV shows all the time. I go, I, I'm qu-quoted in magazines and books. I'm the go-to body language detecting deception expert for the media." He goes, "When did this happen?" I go, "9:35 PM last night."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
Two weeks later, I was on Fox News with Tony Snow, who later became the press secretary for George W. Bush. And then I put that on a website, Lyon Tamer, L-Y-O-N, 'cause I could tell if you're a lyin', LyonTamer.com. Four months later, the Today Show sees it. There were three body language experts that had site, websites then. They dug my vibe or whatever, my Boston moxie, I call it, Mel. And, uh, I've been on the Today Show, I don't know, over 100 times. Dr. Oz, Rachel Ray, the rest of these, Ra- Rachel Ray, sidebar really quick. I'm like, "What show do I wanna get on next?" I'm like, "Oh, this Rachel Ray chick," you know, she's kind of taking off. This is back in the day, you know-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- JDJanine Driver
... 20 years ago. And I wrote to every single story they had coming up, like, "Hey, are you meeting your future in-laws? We'd like to talk to you. Do you think your kids smoke?" And I'm like, "I'm the human lie detector. They call me the Lyon Tamer 'cause I can tell if you're lying." And I pitched them. Z, I, my, my degree in college was English Communications, and I had a concentration in public relations, and they taught me how to write press release. People say, "Who's your press agent?" I go, "North Adams State College in the Berkshires, now called Massachusetts-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
... College of Liberal Arts." They are my PR agent.
- MRMel Robbins
(gasps)
- JDJanine Driver
And I wrote to 12, my, my son, who's now 17 and six-foot-one, was a baby, and I wrote to every single pitch, like ev- every single upcoming show. And then, that was a Wednesday, Mel, and you went home. On Friday, my phone rang, "Janine Driver, this is Maggie Barnes, the Rachel Ray show." And I said, swear to God, "Maggie, I've been expecting your phone call." Went on that show, a flirting show, a woman who was very successful, educated, smart, wealthy, had her own place, couldn't get a second date. They sent me in like Ashton Kutcher. I, like, spied on her body language.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
Th- um, Mel Robinson was gonna say, Rachel Ray surprises the girl, her name's Nicole, now married and still friend of mine, surprises Nicole and brings out her favorite date. But the producers messed up. They didn't have a seat for him. So, Rachel Ray gave her seat to him. She sat on my lap. I had red spiky hair, like the Heat Miser, and a guy is turning the channel who is a literary agent, Dan Lazar, says, "Why is Rachel Ray sitting on that redheaded lady's lap? What is this all about?" I got a book deal. They went into a bidding war, and ultimately, Random House bought my first book, You Say When You Think. So, um, that's how I got to where I am, and the rest is history. And now my job is to inspire people, that you're listening to your podcast, to look at their world in a different way, break any limited beliefs. I believe in manifesting, 'cause I've, I'm living proof that it works. You plant... Hey, Mel, you plant pumpkin seeds, what does it grow?
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, pumpkins?
- JDJanine Driver
You plant tomato seeds. What does it grow?
- MRMel Robbins
Tomatoes?
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah. People get what they grow. They get what they plant. You grow what you plant. So, I'm very positive. I teach something called statement analysis. I don't, I never say, "Don't run in the street. Don't touch that." I say what I want, not what I don't want. I say, "Hey, hey, hey, out of the kitchen. Everyone stay in the living room. Don't touch that. Don't touch that." I say, "Hands off." We need to, I believe, flip the script and plant positive seeds if you want to manifest goodness. So that's who I am. That's my background.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, Janine, couple, uh, that was a, I'm s- my mi- my mind is still processing. So, I wanna go back and ask you, you said there are three types of people who learn to read body language. What are they?
- JDJanine Driver
People who are abused.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- JDJanine Driver
By the way, that's, that was called an open
- 11:16 – 12:30
Which three groups of people can read body language really well?
- JDJanine Driver
loop. An open loop is when you give a little bit of information and not the rest, and it makes people riveted and it creates an open loop in their head. We still wonder if, you know, Chandler and Monica are still married, you know, in this pretend world of Friends. You know? Did Rachel and Ross ever get married, right? These open loops. So I love that you brought me back to close this loop for people. One is kids who are abused in some type of way. Two, people like the Secret Service, who are trained every single day to look for the anomalies, to look for what doesn't fit. You would think school teachers and therapists and judges would be good at detecting deception, and they are not. They are not.
- MRMel Robbins
Why?
- JDJanine Driver
They're not trained every day to, to what to look for. They don't know. I'll, I'll give you a s- quick sidebar here. There's a hand gesture that turns agreement to disagreement, and no one's ever told us what it is, Mel. And it's the-
- MRMel Robbins
What is it?
- JDJanine Driver
... easiest thing. So I say to you, you go, "Hey, Janine, next time I'm in DC, I'd love to... Let's go to dinner."... right? "I don't drink," but maybe you say, "Let's get iced tea." And I go, "Okay, Mel, that sounds great," and I nod my head yes. I'm saying yes, but I take my hand and I touch the back of my head at the same time, and I go, "Yeah, that sounds great, Mel. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, let's get together." Or, that's what men tend to do, women will go to the nape of
- 12:30 – 19:45
Listen for the word “left” when you hear it from someone else.
- JDJanine Driver
our neck and we lift our hair up, for those of you who are listening and maybe not seeing this right now. And when someone says yes and they shake their head yes, but they touch their head at the same time, that's called a high-level pacifier. That's indicating there's something they're uncertain about. So, maybe when you say, "Hey, when you come to town... When I come to town, Janine, let's go out for steak." And I go, "Okay, yeah, that sounds good, but I just became a vegan," or, "I doing intermittent fasting and I don't eat three days a week now."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- JDJanine Driver
It's just telling you my definite yes actually has a non-verbal maybe. There's a problem. So, I say it's like you opened a file cabinet and a file of something I'm not telling you, this, like, top secret file, and all we need to do is say, "Maybe I'm wrong here. It seems to me there's something you're uncertain about." "Well, I just became vegan, Mel. Can we get something vegan?"
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. What a-
- JDJanine Driver
But no one taught us this. This is why judges and teachers and therapists don't know, because no one's teaching us... You know, we're not teaching this emotional intelligence aspect in schools, sadly. And so, one of my big things is, I speak to schools for free. I do Zoom calls for schools, middle schools and high schools and colleges for free, because I want human beings to know what I know so we can... You know, I'm all about kindness and love, and, and positivity. So, so the third group, people are abused, kids are abused, people are trained what to look for, like, like the Secret Service, all day long, what's the anomaly? And the third group is people who have had a left brain stroke and the right brain takes over. So, people who have a left brain stroke, the right brain takes over, which is the non-verbals and spotting these little teeny movements that people make.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- JDJanine Driver
But you can train yourself to be better at it. You can't-
- MRMel Robbins
Well, but-
- JDJanine Driver
I say you can't unsee it, unhear it, unexperience it. So, when, uh, we're talking, Mel and I, and I... and if I share something with you, I want you to try it on. If you're watching, you just saw Mel did it. So, everyone, e- wherever you are, in your car, at the gym, just say, "Yeah, that sounds really good, Janine. I'd love to get together," and pat your s- head, pat the back of your head. Say, "Mel, come here. I'm having fun."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, you're literally, like, going, "I'm lying to you 'cause I really don't want to," as I'm petting my hair or I'm touching my neck. And I, I, I bet you see this a lot on first dates where somebody's trying to get it to a second date, and they're like, "I think we should do this again." And you probably see people nodding, going, "Yeah, that'd be great," and then they go and touch their neck, and that means, "Yeah, not really."
- JDJanine Driver
Well, here's the deal. I'm recently single, got divorced a couple years ago, by the grace of God.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
But we get along great. And, um, when I see a guy doing that on a date, I immediately think to myself, "Janine Driver, stop talking." I talk non-stop, and my goal for 2023, going beyond, is to be interesting... I mean, to be interested more than being interesting. And I find myself often sharing this cool stuff that I know and not being interested. So, for the talkers or the extro... I'm an extrovert introvert, but, i- if you're listening, you know, how... Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for you," right? So, uh, I wanna be interested more than interesting. So, when I see pacifying gestures like this, high level, the higher the pacifier, the more stress and anxiety. Britney Spears lied. Britney Spears said that, uh, you know, Matt Lauer... Uh, that... He's a real peach, but Matt Lauer said, "You're pregnant and divorcing." That's what the rag mags say. She said, "None of that's true," and rubbed her leg. Two weeks later, she filed for divorce from her husband at the time, Kevin Federline. So, this pacifying happens at all parts of our body, but the higher the pacifier, the more stress and anxiety. Why? Our brain is in here. These high-level face pacifiers are indicating stress. Think about people rubbing their eyes. So, right now, if everyone just touches your eye and, and the p- your boss says to you, or your boyfriend, "Hey, let's go to Aruba instead of going skiing this year," and you go, "Okay, not a problem," or your boss says, "Hey, um, can you get this done by Monday," and it's Friday at 5:00, right? And you go, "Okay, boss, not a problem," and you touch the part of your eye. Babies, when they're crying, Mel... You're a mom, I'm a mom. Maybe you at home are a mom, or you were once a kid, for sure. Babies, just before they fall asleep, they rub their eyes.
- MRMel Robbins
(gasps) That's right. They do.
- JDJanine Driver
When we touch our eyes, there is a nerve behind our eye. You could Google it. I show it in my class. An fMRI study was done. When you touch your eye, it then affects this nerve that tickles our brain and dumps dopamine in our body, and dopamine has us fall asleep. So, when you wake up in the morning, the last thing you should do is rub your eyes, because I know you're not a snooze person, Mel. You don't hit that snooze button, go, go, go, right? And you talk about what happens when you go back into... You are even more tired and grumpy, and all your amazing information you share with us and the world. So, don't rub your eye. The better thing is to rub... Um, throw cold water on your face. You could literally dunk your face in cold water. It's called the scuba diving effect, and it will stimulate you. If you're in a meeting or on a date and someone starts touching their eye, it's likely stress has increased. By the way, Putin even does this. So, Putin, this master manipulator, people sing his praises about this, th- how great he is at not being spotted when he's deceptive or stressed. He'll touch his eyes as well under high stress. So, in a meeting, it says to me, subconsciously, right? It connects to us as a baby. We don't realize we're touching our eye, but your brain is getting so stressed in your body that you're dumping dopamine to say, "It's okay. It's okay." President Obama, uh, you know, if you're on the other side and you like, um, Trump, right? Uh, uh, you see world leaders, you see corporate titans, when they do this... I show a video of, um, the president of Mexico when Obama was president here. The president of Mexico said, "Obama, President Obama and the United States can help us ker- I believe they can help us curb the cartel problem in our country." And when he says it, he does a bunch of body language that indicates uncertainty and then touches his inner eye.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- JDJanine Driver
And I show that to my keynote presentations, and I say, "How confident is he that Obama and the United States can help?" And they burst out laughing.
- MRMel Robbins
So, you've spent decades studying murderers, liars, world leaders, becoming an expert at decoding this hidden language.
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What do we need to know, like in our everyday lives? What are the basics that you want everybody to be equipped with so that we can spot when people are lying, so that we can spot these signals that somebody is giving to us and be more empowered in life? Where do we even begin, Janeen?
- JDJanine Driver
Uh, this is a great question, Mel. I- at first, I would start with us before decoding others, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
So emotional intelligence is self-awareness, social awareness, self-adaptation, motivating others to be the best version of themselves. So let's start with self-awareness, okay?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
When it comes to ourselves, what is- a lot's happening. I call it a behavioral fingerprint. What's your behavioral fingerprint? You know, what's your movement DNA look like?
- MRMel Robbins
I have no idea. (laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
Well, you're- you're so dynamite. Are you kidding? You- you've been- you've- you've- you've- listen, you're like making a bagel in your kitchen or whatever, like, and then you say some soundbite and it goes, you know, millions of people are watching it and lives are being changed because of it. Your body language is great. You're very authentic. And here's why. If we can im- I love trees, and if you at home can imagine a
- 19:45 – 20:12
What’s your behavioral fingerprint? Here’s how to figure it out.
- JDJanine Driver
tree, there's the four stages of how we communicate. And if you think of a tree, Mel, and you at home, is, uh, that we're gonna start with the roots of the tree. The roots of the tree is what we believe. I spoke at, uh, Georgetown University, and someone said, a woman, at the end of my presentation, uh, "Excuse me, I have a group interview tomorrow. Five people are interviewing me. Janeen, is there a question you would ask at the end of the interview?" And I said, "Yes, I would ask, to each of them,
- 20:12 – 22:35
What is the best question to ask at the end of an interview?
- JDJanine Driver
'What do you consider the ideal candidate to look like and how do I measure up to your expectation of the ideal candidate?'"
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- JDJanine Driver
And the woman, had you all been there, you would have seen her and heard her say, "Oh, I could never ask that. I would look desperate." And you would have heard me respond, "You're right. You would look desperate. I would look confident."
- MRMel Robbins
Is that because of the roots?
- JDJanine Driver
It's because of the roots of the tree. It's what I believe, because I really wanna know that question. A lot of us, and for the women who are listening, a lot of us women, we really do ourselves a huge disservice. Men go in, and men say, "Uh, excuse me, Mel, I just found out my mother's coming to town Fourth of July. I'm taking four days off." Confident. Solid body language. Women, we ask the same question that same day. We will often, many of us, come in shoulder-shrugging. And we put our shoulders up to our ears. "Hey boss, I just found out," shoulder shrug, "that my mother's coming to town," shoulder shrug. "Uh, I didn't know she was coming. Could I take the Fourth of July off?" And your boss says, "Yes" to Bob and "No" to Jane. "Jane, ask me again in June." And we walk away and say, "This is- this is what happens. See, it's a double standard." Now, I'm not saying there's not a double standard with men and women, 'cause there is. But there are some areas where we have to take responsibility for the results we're getting, and here's the why- reason. When we shoulder-shrug, we're gonna talk about this hopefully in a bit, but a shoulder shrug means uncertainty, and it's also connected to deception, which we'll talk about hopefully in a- in a minute. But a shoulder shrug means uncertainty, and we have mirror neurons. You yawn, Mel, or Donna, or Jessie, or Amy, or Andrea, whoever's listening, you yawn, I yawn. Science. Mel, I know you love science. I know you love what's happening in the brain and how the brain and the body are talking to one an- one another, 'cause they are. So, when I come in uncertain, how am I making my boss feel, Mel?
- MRMel Robbins
Uncertain.
- JDJanine Driver
Uncertain.
- MRMel Robbins
And they probably don't even realize it. Like, e- like, you, I s- I've- I've been watching a bunch of your TED Talks, and you did this exercise with the audience, and we can do it with everybody listening, where simply take a second and say the words, "Can I have the Fourth of July off?" while your shoulders are hiked up towards your ears, and you'll realize your entire body and energy is questioning the words that are coming out of your mouth. It's impossible, Janeen. You're absolutely right. I've never even thought about it. Impossible to even feel confident
- 22:35 – 32:43
How men state what they need versus how women do.
- MRMel Robbins
if you're talking with your shoulders up at your ears.
- JDJanine Driver
Right. Right.
- MRMel Robbins
You're shrugging them up, and-
- JDJanine Driver
Well, you're planting pumpkin seeds and expecting tomatoes to grow.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) It's true. I mean, come on.
- JDJanine Driver
And it- it begins with the roots, though.
- MRMel Robbins
It's not our fault.
- JDJanine Driver
It's not your fault, because no one is teaching us this, okay? We just wanna be liked. We don't wanna be inconveniencing people. We don't know if we're bothering. But if you look at the- the- many of the men in Confident Alpha Women, they just come in unapologetically. That's the roots of the tree. What is it that you're planting? Because what you're planting is going to grow whatever the seed is connected to. So get to those roots of the tree. It's what do you believe. What's the trunk of the-
- MRMel Robbins
The second part, the trunk.
- JDJanine Driver
Wha- huh? Yeah. Okay, what's the second part? Yeah, the trunk of the tree is body language. And now, this is interesting, because after body language comes the branches. The branches, Mel, and you at home, are- i- the branches are thought. So this means body language comes before thought. And here's the deal. It comes up to five seconds before thought. D- Mel, do you think five seconds is a- is a good advantage for the military? Would five seconds matter?
- MRMel Robbins
I- i- it's life or death, I would think.
- JDJanine Driver
Do you think five seconds hap- matter with an athlete?
- MRMel Robbins
If it's winning or losing.
- JDJanine Driver
Can five seconds with you, with your 10-second rule, can five seconds make a difference?
- MRMel Robbins
Of course.
- JDJanine Driver
Can I jump out of bed-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- JDJanine Driver
... at five seconds?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- JDJanine Driver
With- understanding what I'm talking about now, first is the intention, the roots of the tree, then bod- uh, then body language, and then thought. This means you get a five-second advantage to know how someone else feels before their brain knows how they feel. This is why when I say, "Hey, Mel, I can't come and join you for Thanksgiving this year," and you go, "Not a problem, Janeen," and your lips disappear. Everyone pull your lips in and just say, "Not a problem. I don't mind."
- MRMel Robbins
Not a problem.
- JDJanine Driver
... and pull your lips in. Okay?
- MRMel Robbins
Make them disappear.
- JDJanine Driver
Make them disappear. And so, uh, Mel goes, "Not a problem, Janine." I say, "When we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear." Or a lip roll is em- emotional control.
- MRMel Robbins
What's a lip roll look like?
- JDJanine Driver
So... Uh, that's this.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh. So-
- JDJanine Driver
Lips disappearing. Rolling those lips in.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
Okay? So Mel says, "Not a problem." I now have a five-second advantage. I know that there is a problem, because Mel's lips disappeared, and when we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear, so I know there is a problem. I know my dad's a hothead. When I see my dad's lips disappear, I've got five seconds to get my kids in the truck and get the heck out of Maine and my dad's cottage before my kids see the angry dad that I grew up with 'cause they don't believe he exists. Right?
- 32:43 – 36:18
The power of eye contact unpacked.
- JDJanine Driver
"Richard, my office now. Marjorie." She'd walk into this pool of people at desks, and they became cartoon figures. Their eyes popped out of their head, and they looked full of fear. And I called my mother, I was 25, I was in th- World Trade Center in New York, and I go, "Mom, my boss does this aggressive thing. If she does it to me, I'm mouthy. You know, I'm gonna lose my cool job with ATF." My mother was a nurse for elderly homeless people, ME-L, in Boston, Committee to Eld- E- End Elderly Homelessness, and at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge. I went home, five foot two, I'm five nine, she's a peanut. She goes, "I want you to do this." This is before I knew what was called steepling and fingertips to fingertips. And I go, "What's that called?" She goes, "I have no idea. (laughs) I just know when a doctor says," my mom was Lorraine, "Lorraine, can I talk to you about the last patient?" She goes, "I always feel like I'm in trouble." So lo and behold, Colleen, my boss at the World Trade Center, did it to me two months later. "Janine, my office." She pointed at me, was aggressive. I pulled out mom's move, which I now know is called steepling. Oprah Winfrey does it all the time. I walked casually behind Colleen with my steeple. When I went into her office, had you been there, you would have heard her say, "Do you know why I called you in my office?" And with my steeple in hand, I s- responded the way Mom told me. I said, "I have a pretty good idea, Colleen." She goes, "Why?" I go, "I'm exceeding all your expectations."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
As you might imagine, she's like, "What? I'll do that at the end of the year in an evaluation." I gotta spread it out. I love attention from my boss, still steepling. Every now and then, call me in, and I'll come skipping in. I come in early, I stay late. I know I'm exceeding your expectations. Isn't that why you call me in? She didn't know what to do. I worked for her for three and a half years. She never called me in her office again. The reason she had called me in that day was to bully me. And when I said, "Why did you call me in?" she said, "Oh, I just wanted to see how you're enjoying living in New York City." She was a bully boss. So if you have bully bosses and bully people in your life, pull out that steeple, 'cause when you steeple people, you have power over people.
- MRMel Robbins
Does it work with a spouse or somebody you're dating
- JDJanine Driver
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... steepling?
- JDJanine Driver
And kids. Yeah, yeah, they, they feel like they're in trouble. Yeah, so if you wanna make them feel like they're in trouble and that you're not gonna be pushed around easily, 100% steeple.
- MRMel Robbins
Steeple. I love it. It's almost like a little shield that you're creating. It's like you can become your own superhero, superpower when you steeple. It's like Wonder Twins unite and they used to hit-
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... their fists. Like, you're now-
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... creating a force field. You, you are in charge when you put the steeple up. I absolutely love that.
- JDJanine Driver
I love it too.
- MRMel Robbins
Thank you.
- JDJanine Driver
You know, I don't, do you know Desiree Gruber? Have you ever met her?
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- JDJanine Driver
So she's in New York City. Um, she came up with the idea, marketing company, of the, uh, Victoria's Secret Fashion Show back in the day. And by the way, Victoria's Secret initially didn't want it, and then when they had it, it blew out the internet. It was the first time the internet crashed, was the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. And Victoria's Secret wasn't happy at first, and then the publicity exploded. Victoria's Secret Fashion Show with the wings and the lingerie. Well, she once sent me a picture, she's a client, and she sent me a picture of her steepling in the Oval Office in the White House because she said she was nervous with all those heavy hitters, so she brought her steeple out in the Oval Office. Nancy Pelosi, all these people were there.
- MRMel Robbins
That's pretty cool.
- JDJanine Driver
And so when you're nervous, steeple, you can fake it there. So, and the other move I wanted to show you is a chin grab. Uh, Indra Nooyi is the former CEO of PepsiCo. I love Indra Nooyi. Google her if everyone doesn't know who she is. Um, Indian, she was raised in India. She has a sister. Her mother used to, every night at the dinner table, have her and her sister debate. "You're running for president of the United States." "You're running for prime minister of Australia." And they would debate. She grows up, becomes a female CEO of PepsiCo.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- JDJanine Driver
When she does interviews-
- MRMel Robbins
Maybe that's what I did wrong. I've just been going, "Get your elbows off the table." (laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
(laughs) To your kids. So when
- 36:18 – 38:37
Do this to get your kids to tell you the truth.
- JDJanine Driver
she does an interview, look at Indra Nooyi, she grabs her chin, and I say, "When we grab our chin, we're about to win." Take a picture of yourself. How do you normally sit? And now-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-
- JDJanine Driver
... take a picture of yourself while holding your chin. Look how much more intelligent we look. We look like we have a master's degree. We look like we have it all figured out.
- MRMel Robbins
I literally look like I just won the Pulitzer Prize.
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah, look how confident you look.
- MRMel Robbins
And see, here, I figured I was joining, I was holding my chin 'cause it's very pointy. I don't really like it, so I'm kind of hiding it, but it-
- JDJanine Driver
Oh.
- MRMel Robbins
... uh, it does look very-
- JDJanine Driver
Well, can I tell you about your pointy chin means?
- MRMel Robbins
... astute.Yeah, what is my pointy chin?
- JDJanine Driver
Like a shovel and a pointy chin-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
... you can take it h- you can take something on the chin. And a pointy chin is like a shovel, in that you will fight for people. You, you will fight. You'll have that determination, is that, that, that chin right there. And so, that's all.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. So, c-can you wa- I, I have to, I have to just tell you a quick story.
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
When my husband was in the restaurant business, we couldn't go out to another restaurant and actually have a nice date, because the man would be so preoccupied, "Oh, there's 40 seats. There's this many wait-" Like, he was just in the, the, the language of running a restaurant, so he was-
- JDJanine Driver
I can reverse engineer what he does with his body language based on you telling me that. Would you want me to tell you what he does with his body language?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. But what I was gonna say is, can you actually be with other people and not be decoding them?
- JDJanine Driver
(laughs) Like that, that, uh, movie where Jim Carrey becomes God, right? And he turns it into sticky notes and then he turns it into an email system. Um, some things I can't unsee, but I have ADD, so sometimes I'm daydreaming and not paying attention. So if you prime me in advance to decode whoever you're with, um, then I'll see it all. Otherwise, I'm kind of not really payi- I can't unsee what we're about to talk about, detecting deception. I can't unsee the detecting deception hotspots I'm gonna share with you.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
I can't un-notice them. So we'll go over those in a second, but I will, I'm gonna reverse engineer what your husband does, and I've never met him. I don't know him. I know about, you know, h- one business was doing well. He opened up another one and didn't do so well, and another one, didn't do so well.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- JDJanine Driver
And then I know your story about the, the, the, this rocket ship. So I wanted you to do a test, and you at home, anyone who pays attention to all the details like Mel's husband, right? All these little teeny details. I want you to watch how they drink their water tonight at dinner or tomorrow at breakfast or today at lunch, whatever time you're listening to this
- 38:37 – 43:10
Here’s how detail-oriented people drink their water.
- JDJanine Driver
amazing Mel Robbins podcast, and I'm, I'm gonna tell you what they're gonna do with their water, these detail-oriented people. And by the way, I am not one of them-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
... is when they drink their water... Mel, I want you to know this with your hus- What's his first name?
- MRMel Robbins
Chris.
- JDJanine Driver
Chris. All right. He's gonna drink his water. When he puts the glass or the bottle on the table, he's gonna watch it until it hits the table. When he goes to pick up the bottle, he's gonna look at the bottle, keep looking at it as he grasps the bottle. He's gonna keep looking at it, grasp the bottle. People like me who are not detail oriented, what I do is I l- see, I see the table. I look down where the table is. I grab my bottle of water, but I'm still looking at you. So I look just to see, oh yeah, my water's still there. I look at the water and then I look back at you, and I pick it up without looking at the water. And now I'm looking at you and I put it down without looking at the table. I figure gravity and the thing I just picked it up from are still there. Detail-oriented people, they have a magnet glass that's like Inspector Creusse- Crusoe or Sherlock Holmes. And so when they talk to you, Jimmy Fallon, Amy Schumer, Jennifer Lawrence, their, their humor, all three of those people, are about the details. They remember words from movies and words from songs. Watch them in interviews, right? They will talk... They're like smart bombs. So it's not just the water, it's all their energy is directed in one area. So Jimmy Fallon will talk and his hand points up and his eyes point up. You see Jennifer Lawrence, "Hi, nice to meet you," with a handshake in her head. They're almost... I feel like I can't get away from their energy. If you're talking to me and all of a sudden, if Chris, your husband was doing this, I'd be like, "Whoa, detail-oriented, aren't you? You like to research the research and then recommend more research?" And watch how they put the drinks down. Um, I'm speaking today at a company called Paylocity, and two of their big executives, I watched them last night at their little cocktail hour and I secretly videotaped them.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh my God. Are you gonna-
- JDJanine Driver
I-
- MRMel Robbins
... play it during your keynote?
- JDJanine Driver
Oh, yeah. I went up and asked for permission today.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
But as they drank their water, they watched it till it hit the table as if like, "Hi, I'll be right back. You made it." And I said, "Are you detail oriented? Do you love to research the research?" Two executives, they go, "Yes. How do you know that?" I go, "Simply by how I watched you drink your water." I said, "If I put a coaster on the table would... and it was crooked, would you adjust the coaster?" Both said, "100%." So in meetings, if you're listening and you're a business person, especially sales, make sure you have coasters crooked on the table. Now, some people who aren't detail oriented may just fix it 'cause it's irritating. But watch if they watch their glass when they put it d- all the way till it hits the table. Someone like me, I, when it hits the table, my eyes are back on you. It's not even looking at where it's from.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that tell you about how to sell to them?
- JDJanine Driver
It says you, they want lots of deta- two things. One, they're gonna want lots and lots of details. That's number one. Number two, in your emails, if you are detail oriented and your emails are probably too long, and someone like me, I'm never gonna read your emails. I'm gonna pick up the phone and call and say, "Okay, what do I need to know about this event? What's the dress code? Where is it?" What you need to do if you're detail oriented and your emails or text messages at the top, think like Twitter. Here's the, what you must know.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-Hmm.
- JDJanine Driver
Here's the three things you must know. Additional information is below. Someone like me who's not motivated by details, I don't look at the water when I put it down or pick it up. I need to do the opposite. Here's what you need to know. Boom, boom, boom. Here's a link to additional information if you'd like to explore on your own. Fun things to do while you're in Orlando. Here's a link. Hotels you can stay in Orlando. Here's the link. Broadway, you know, shows you can see in New York. So if you understand people's m- behavioral fingerprints and there's a bunch of things, maybe I'll come back and play again and answer questions. You can sell to them differently. You can raise the kids differently. You can understand them. There's seven billion people, seven or eight billion in the plan- in the world. A- 26 billion different behavioral fingerprints.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh my God. Now I'm overwhelmed. You know which ones I wanna focus on?
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Deception.
- JDJanine Driver
Deception. Here we go. Shoulder shrug. A shoulder shrug we talked about earlier is uncertainty. When I say, "Hey Mel, uh, what do you want for lunch? A salad? A BLT?" "I don't know. What do you want?" A shoulder shrug makes sense there. Your verbal says, "I don't know."... and your non-verbal says, "I don't know." It's congruent. But when I say, "Hey, Mel, um, your favorite TED Talk of mine is blank," and I shoulder shrug, it does not mean I don't like that talk, but it does indicate
- 43:10 – 51:52
What if you don’t FEEL confident when you use these “non-verbals?”
- JDJanine Driver
there's something I'm uncertain about. Ask me if I've ever cheated on my husband when I was married to him.
- MRMel Robbins
Did you ever cheat on your husband when you were married to him?
- JDJanine Driver
No.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
Now, I said no, and for people who are listening, I shrugged at the same time, and that's why Mel's laughing. But it doesn't mean I cheated. See, that shrug means, Mel, you opened a file in a cabinet that says top secret of something I don't wanna share with you.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- JDJanine Driver
And maybe what I don't wanna share is that he cheated on me, and I'm called the human lie detector. Hypothetically, he cheated on me. Hypothetically, he went on Tinder two days before Christmas, and my friend told me 'cause he showed up in her account, hypoth- hypothetically. So, uh, the shoulder shrug doesn't mean I'm canceling what I'm saying, but it does mean there's something I'm uncertain about. And, and I may not even realize it yet. Why? 'Cause you have a five-second advantage over my brain. I don't even realize I'm uncertain about something right now. But if you can spot it, you can simply say, I call it MIW formula. Maybe I'm wrong. You know, maybe I'm wrong here, Mel, but it seems to me or it feels to me that you're uncertain about something. And then, let the person say, "Well, yeah, I just was in the bathroom and I overheard a woman saying her significant other is stepping out on her, and she's devastated." It's not my story to tell. But when you asked if I cheated on my husband, you kinda opened a file to just cheating in general. So that's why I was uncertain.
- MRMel Robbins
I noticed in a lot of your commentary, in some of the major murder cases that you have been an expert on, that shoulder shrugging, while husbands, in particular, who went on to be found guilty or confessing to murdering pregnant wives or members of their family, that during press conferences, you were picking up on shoulder shrugging.
- JDJanine Driver
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
So in our lives, if you have somebody in your life that you think is lying to you, whether it's a kid that you think is lying about what they were doing last night, or a significant other that you think might be cheating or might not be telling you the truth, is paying attention to whether or not they just sort of inadvertently, subconsciously raise their shoulders as they're talking, that is one clue that something's not right?
- JDJanine Driver
Yes. Not only shoulders though, Mel, it's also hands. So sometimes a hand shrug, it's also uncertainty. Or a mouth shrug, like, "Mm, I don't know what to tell you." So, a hand shrug, a shoulder shrug or this like mouth shrug where you can feel that someone's uncertain, it's hard to describe it here, um, is indicating there's a hot spot here. We don't know what the catalyst is, but there's certainly something I'd wanna ask more questions on with regard to this. If you're confronting the people in your life, stop saying, "Whatever you do, don't lie to me." Our brain doesn't understand the word don't, and so you're giving them an embedded command to lie to you, and it's 30%, uh, approximately hypnotic, more hypnotic than you just saying, "Hey, during this interview, please lie to me." So, what you wanna say instead is, what hostage negotiators say, and I have mentors. I'm not a hostage negotiator. I have a mentor, Jim Kavanaugh, who is. Uh, y- what they say is, what you want instead is, "Whatever you do today, I want you to tell me the truth. Whether you tell me the truth or you don't," 'cause we don't hear don't, "'don't' tell me the truth, I know more than you think I know." So I'm gonna use that embedded command after the don't to say, "tell me the truth." So, Mel, I'm gonna ask you some questions-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
... about where you were last night."
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
"And whether you tell me the truth or you don't," pause, "tell me the truth, I know more than you think I do." Now, last night when you said you went out with your girlfriends, did anyone else show up and talk to you guys?
- MRMel Robbins
I'm scared.
- JDJanine Driver
And I'm just doing
- NANarrator
(laughs) .
- MRMel Robbins
I'm like, I'm literally scared.
- JDJanine Driver
Hypothetically. Hypothetically.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm like shoulders down, lips out now.
- JDJanine Driver
Like, where was I last night?
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know what I did. I think I was here.
- JDJanine Driver
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I think I was here.
- JDJanine Driver
So-
- MRMel Robbins
So, so hold on. I wanna make sure that we get... So you now are gonna watch shoulder shrugs?
- JDJanine Driver
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
If you are feeling like something's off. If you are then going to open up the file and explore more, you're counseling us, number one, to either start with, "I could be wrong."
- JDJanine Driver
Yes.
- 51:52 – 55:07
Use this hack to look more confident.
- JDJanine Driver
then your shoulders are gonna be up and you're gonna look like this like character, you know, out of a Harry Potter movie. So, you've gotta believe it. You gotta believe it.
- MRMel Robbins
But how do you believe it if all you see is evidence that you failed or that you haven't believed in yourself or that you've put everybody else first? Like, how do you create new roots?
- JDJanine Driver
Okay. I call this a reset, and I took a class with a woman, and we'll get back to detecting deception hopefully, but I took a class, have her on your podcast. Her name is A- Andrea Quinn. Now, I'm from Boston. We say Andrea. (American East Coast accent) She's from California. She says Andrea. (American West Coast accent) She has a new book out. Don't ask me the name. I don't know. Have your team look it up and, and we can shout it out maybe. So, Andrea Quinn. I took this class. She was out in LA. And she calls these moments when we fail or people knock us down good to knows. And if we can do a reset ... And she just calls 'em good to know. "Hey, Mel, I did not appreciate you, um, getting me back focused on detecting deception when I wanted to talk about leadership." Good to know.
- MRMel Robbins
Good to know.
- JDJanine Driver
Good to know. They're just a bunch of good to knows. I, I spoke at an event called Campowerment. It's a, um, uh, a woman's-based event, and you all s- everyone sleeps in tents and um, I mean, in, um, little cabins and stuff. And I spoke there. It's for women wanting to like do a reset. And I spoke there, and at the end, sometimes people come up and they're hugging me or crying. I, you know, I'm, I key- I make money as a motivational keynote speaker on body language and leadership and all that sales and stuff. And, and there's like 42 women in line. I'm hugging them all. I spoke for 45 minutes, but I think I hugged people for two hours. The last woman, she had big circle glasses, black gras- glasses, circle, right? Um, short, spiky hair. Sh- she had a cool vibe, I thought. She came up to me and she said, "Hey, um, Janeen, you were my roommate in your last class here, um, last year with Sarah." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I love Sarah." She goes, "Yeah, Sarah loves you too." And I, she goes, "I wanted to stay here and to talk to you because I just don't get it. I don't ... I saw twi- you speak twice today. I don't get what you're talking about, how it's interesting to people. I don't like your personality. I just don't get what my best friend who I've had for years likes about you." Old Janeen would have received that, taken it in, influenced my body language, how I held myself, my limited beliefs. My roots would have been destroyed because thanks to Andrea Quinn, I said to that woman, had you been there, "Good to know. Anything else you wanna share with me?" And I walked and wiped it off. I spoke at an event called Know Your Value. Mika Burzinski puts it together. It's a woman's-based event. Before me was Sarah Jessica Parker. I'm not saying this in a braggy way. Sarah Jessica Parker, um, uh, Martha Stewart, and Bobby Brown, the m- the, um, the makeup artist. They're, they're before me, and then I'm the like fat girl, size 22, in the back of the room.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
Right? Coming up next.
- MRMel Robbins
Gosh, wow.
- JDJanine Driver
And I have 25 minutes. And I got my stinking thinking coming in. "Boy, they didn't get a standing ovation. They d- You know, people barely applauded. Like, if they don't like them, like they're never gonna like me. No one even knows who I am. I'm not even famous to that level yet." And, and I go, "Janeen-"... pull your shoulders back. The difference between Superman and Clark Kent is a two-inch posture difference. Clark Kent, his shoulders are pulled forward.
- 55:07 – 1:02:58
Know the difference between Clark Kent and Superman, and you’re all set.
- JDJanine Driver
If you pull y- not, we always say pull your shoulders back. That's actually wrong. You're never gonna pull your shoulders back. You actually look weird, like some type of a T, uh, like a-
- MRMel Robbins
I just, I just pulled my shoulders back. The second you said there's a two, two-inch difference, I'm like, "Okay, shoulders back. I'm about to get-"
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"... interrogated. Here we go."
- JDJanine Driver
We've been taught wrong, okay?
- MRMel Robbins
All right, what do we do?
- JDJanine Driver
If you pull your shoulders back, it's actually uncomfortable and you're not gon- you look weird. Instead, I want you to think like, um, like, um, Tony Stark, right? So Tony Stark has a- an- and he has this circle thing on his chest.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, yeah, for Iron Man.
- JDJanine Driver
Iron Man. He's got this circle orb that keeps him alive on his chest.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- JDJanine Driver
I want you to imagine you have that in the, in the center of your chest.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
And a laser beam shoots out of it. If that laser beam, based on your posture, is gonna hit the ground, then you're being Clark Kent. If you wanna be Superman, where the wall meets the ceiling is a confident feeling. So you just wanna take that laser beam and lift your chest to where the wall meets the ceiling.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
Relax your shoulders. Relax those, those... Yeah, much better. And as you're walking, you change how you were perceived. So I'm backstage. I'm in the back of the room. I always come in from the back. And I'm after Martha Stewart and Sarah Jessica Parker, and I have my stinkin' thinkin'. And it can't be negative more than 17 seconds. After 17 seconds, I get my positivity. "I'm amazing. I know cool stuff. I'm gonna change their life. People in here are hurting. At least one woman needs to know this, that she's amazing." And I, and I do that. And I go, "Where the wall meets the ceiling is a confident feeling," and I fire a laser beam right there where that wall meets the ceiling.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
And I come up from my 25 minutes, and I got the only standing ovation for that conference. This girl that no one knew coming in, size 22, 24, in the back of the room, hitting the stage. Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough talk about me the next day on their show, Morning Joe. I sold a ton of online courses because of it. And all I did was cha- notice self-awareness, notice my stinkin' thinkin', no more than 17 seconds of negativity, say five things about me that I love. I changed my posture, and I've changed, "I know things. I'm not here to teach you to be healthy and strong and fit. I'm here to teach you about body language and the power of influencing people and emotional intelligence and loving ourselves." And then I, I just killed it. I just, I just had a mad love affair with the audience. I made it less about me and more about them. And I'm like, "They need what I know." My mother always said, "Your power's what you give to others." So-
- MRMel Robbins
It's true.
- JDJanine Driver
... so you-
- MRMel Robbins
One of the things that you taught me that I never forgot was this concept called eye blocking.
- JDJanine Driver
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And the example that you gave about it being like our own personal passcode, could you explain that to everybody and why this is such an important thing to pay attention to, whether it's in your kids or friendships or in, you know, a relationship with somebody?
- JDJanine Driver
Okay, yes, and... Um, I just touched my eye when you started talking about eye blocking, so for people-
- MRMel Robbins
I didn't even know that. I didn't notice it.
- JDJanine Driver
... people who may be watching it, I touched the... You missed it. I touched the corner of my left eye. And, and for people who did notice it, so this is your visual information channel. I want you to go back and watch this, Mel. We have to turn up our, our, our... Or I, my challenge to you is to turn up your visual information channel. So I touched my eye.
- MRMel Robbins
Didn't even see it.
- JDJanine Driver
And I wanna tell you why.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughing) Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
So for me, I'm in Orlando, Florida. I'm speaking today-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- 1:02:58 – 1:05:27
Why belly buttons matter more than the eyes when reading someone.
- JDJanine Driver
person. You're pulling us along with your journey.
- MRMel Robbins
What are the top five things, or doesn't matter what the number is, what are the top things that we can practice that help boost our influence and our likability when it comes to body language?
- JDJanine Driver
Okay. Hmm. All right. Confident and likable. Um, we have three power zones, um, our neck dimple... I was gonna back up and show you a little bit. So our neck dimple, it's our throat right here. Our belly button-
- MRMel Robbins
Our neck dimple, is that the neck dimple like the little dip, the, the dip in there?
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah, the superstitial notch or whatever you-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
... whatever you say.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- JDJanine Driver
Where, you know, your necklace lies right there, so your neck dimple, your, your neck, your belly button, and then your lower extremity. I call it your naughty bits. It's from the Holy Grail. So, uh, your groin. I was on the Today Show, and I was gonna, I was with a guy in the, uh, sitting next to me, Ted from Queer Eye, from the straight guy, the original Ted, the original guy. And he goes, "What are you talking about with Al Roker?" I said, "Your neck dimple, your belly button, and your groin, you keep it open when you're confident and likable." He goes, "Please never say the word groin on a morning show." He said, "Say the holy... Uh, say, um, naughty bits. It's from the Holy Grail." I loved it, Mel, as you might imagine, and I went on there, I loved it, and I said, "Neck dimple, belly button, and groin." Why? But I love naughty bits, because we need to practice. We need to practice, practice, practice. What you're learning today, you gotta practice. Say, "Today, I'm gonna pay attention to belly buttons." So keep our neck dimple, our belly button, and our naughty bits open. Now let's talk about the belly button. I call this naval intelligence. We face our belly button towards people we like, admire, and trust. So if I'm flirting with Brad Pitt, but my belly button is facing George Clooney, everyone thinks I'm flirting with Brad, I wanna hook up with Brad, but really, my belly button wants to go home with good old George. In a meeting, count up how many belly buttons are facing you. If you have 50% of the belly buttons facing someone else-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) That's so funny.
- JDJanine Driver
... then that person is probably your arch-nemesis, and if I were to give you a tip, emotional intelligence is being smarter, I would make sure I'd have meetings with that person first to get them on my side before going into that other meeting. Because 50% of the ears are listening to that person. On a date, pay attention if the date is over. I'm a talker, right? So a- are you, like, talking past the sale even in a, in an intimate thing like on a date, right? Pay attention, that belly button is angled towards the door to the car. They want out. I call it naval
- 1:05:27 – 1:06:24
This is the BEST dating advice I’ve heard in a long time.
- JDJanine Driver
intelligence, and it's our first connection to another human being. Our belly button was connected to-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, that's true.
- JDJanine Driver
... the umbilical cord. So the belly button rule, I call it. So keep those three power zones open. Watch your pacifiers, those high-lateral pacifiers. If you're nervous, and it happens, first of all, give yourself a positive trait, right? Plant that seed, that belief. And then if you need to pacify, do toe push-ups inside your shoe. So you're up there, never tell us you're nervous. Never say, "Oh, I'm not good at public speaking, I'm really nervous, I'm not good." Never do that. Because when you're nervous, we see it, and mirror neurons make us nervous and love you even more. As soon as you s- disclaim it and like, "Oh, I'm nervous, I've never done this before," we're like, "Ah, she figured it out." Don't let us in, like, "We're already seeing your body language, we're cheering you on, we love you so much." So instead, right here, do toe push-ups, one and two and three, inside your shoes. We're not seeing them.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that do?
- JDJanine Driver
It's getting out that stress and anxiety.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- JDJanine Driver
Instead
- 1:06:24 – 1:17:35
Nervous on a date or an interview? This hack releases nervous energy.
- JDJanine Driver
of doing this, instead of b- benching your foot, instead of doing this, just get that stress and anxiety. When you move your body, you move your mind. That's why exercise decreases stress. In law enforcement, we get more in- confessions walking from the jail cell back to the interrogation room or the interrogation room to the police car than we do in the interrogation room. When you move your body, you move your mind. So sometimes we just gotta get people moving. I like to say, "If you're stressed..." Some people are anxious, right? So y- you have anxiety. By the way, if you are the type of person that you have anxiety and you say, "But what if this happens? But what if that happens? We need a plan A, B, C, D, E, F, G."... right? You're kind of gloom and doomy, and everyone lets you know it. Would you like to know what your superpower is?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. You can see around corners.
- JDJanine Driver
Their superpower is they can lean back into the past, bring the past mistakes and past wins into the future, into now, and lean into the future and use that future now. They're trend spotters. They set goals, they measure progress, they update plans.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- JDJanine Driver
These are the people. Every weakness that we have, you're lazy, you don't finish projects. 80% you finish, it's connected to body language. You don't finish projects, like my ex-husband, that was his cute nickname I called him, Lazy. Right?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- JDJanine Driver
He would... I call him the 80% man. He'd paint a room and leave it 20% undone. And then I just ...
- MRMel Robbins
How long were you married?
- JDJanine Driver
20 years I was with him. But we get along great. He's one of my best friends, uh, by the grace of God. 20 long years. It's like SpongeBob, "20 years later." But his... Know what his superpower was?
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- JDJanine Driver
A lazy person who doesn't finish work? Flexibility. When's the last time you thanked people for their flexibility? We spend every Christmas in Boston, he's from California. Every Halloween, every Easter, every Thanksgiving. When we go to movies, I pick the movie. When we're making dinner, I pick the dinner. I never thanked him for his flexibility, but I made fun of his laziness until I discovered, this is my next TED Talks, you're getting a sneak peek, that all of our decision-making weaknesses have corresponding superpowers. So if you have people that don't finish projects in your life, I bet you they're the most flexible people in your life and you may want to thank them and say, "I didn't realize you have a superpower of flexibility and I wanna honor that and thank you for being so flexible." So-
- MRMel Robbins
What do you think is the biggest thing that you've learned after decades of studying human beings and this hidden second language that we all have, that's helped you in your everyday life?
- JDJanine Driver
The biggest thing that I've learned? I would say that I believe in comebacks because I've ha- experienced them. And I believe in comebacks, and I believe there's a story behind the story. Susan Smith was the most hated mother in the world at the time when she killed her two young sons because she was dating a guy that didn't want to date a woman that had kids. Later became Casey Anthony. And then now, there's others. But Susan Smith drowned her two kids and, and she was the most hated mother. And what most people don't know is she started being raped and molested by her father at like three and four years old. So it makes me emotional. As a mother, just imagining my kids at the age of three, and I'm not saying what Susan Smith did was justified, but I'm saying there's a story behind a story. And, you know, there's that expression and they, they quoted it in that, uh, what's that soccer movie? Uh-huh. That talk- soccer TV series? Um, Ted Lasso. In one of their episodes, they quoted it, um, "Stop being so judgmental and start being curious, asking questions." And I think that there's a story behind a story. And, um, Susan Smith was raped by her dad her whole childhood. Um, even as a young woman, um, continued to happen. And then in her young teens, would go back to the dad's house and have, you know, sex with her dad. And so, um, I'm always interested in, you know, what's the story behind the story here? Can I find a little bit of compassion or empathy? And, um, I believe in comebacks 'cause I've experienced them, and I'm a work in progress all the time. I'm an eternal student. I was, uh, at this event this morning, I sat in there for five hours 'cause I wanted to learn. I took about five pages of notes just listening to two CEOs who this company, Paylocity, just hit the billion dollar mark for the first time. I wanted to hear every word they had to say. They were asked, what's the biggest thing that they learned on, at, at working together in their life? And I'm taking notes, right? So, I think that, um, I don't know. I believe in comebacks. That's it. You had a comeback. You believe in comebacks?
- MRMel Robbins
I've had multiple. Of course, I do.
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And I also believe in what you were talking about, which is when you seek to understand something-
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... it doesn't condone what somebody did, but it can explain-
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... why it happened.
- JDJanine Driver
Listen, I was molested as a kid.
- MRMel Robbins
Me too.
- JDJanine Driver
I could have became a Susan Smith. I happened to have a mother that loves me so much that, that she took this pain and believed me and, and she's just say, "Janeen, I could drop you in a room with 100 friend- 100 strangers and you'd leave with 100 friends." Now, first of all, that's not true. I would leave with 50 friends and 50 people who never wanna see me again 'cause I talk too fast and I'm just a little too much for some people. And I, you know what that is? That's a good to know. And-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) I like... That's kind of my favorite thing that I learned today.
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah, I love a good to know.
- MRMel Robbins
That it's a good to know. That's good to know.
- JDJanine Driver
Andrea Quinn. Andrea Quinn. Buy her book. I don't know what it's called but buy her book and it's like eight... It's qu- uh, Andrea Quinn, she calls them the eight Quinn-essentials for women to have their dreams come true. Something like that. I may be misquoting it, but good to know saved my life all the time and... Um, I love teaching what I'm teaching. If I can help anyone, like please, I, I love... I... You know, my mother always said, "Your power's what you give to others." So...
- MRMel Robbins
Can you, uh, can you explain a couple examples of eye-blocking?
- JDJanine Driver
Yeah. So, uh, a guy, a murderer named, um, Chris Watts killed his pregnant wife, Shanann, and his two young daughters, Celeste and Bella, little ones, like under the age of six. And when he's being interviewed, um, he... And not only him, we have Ted Bundy, we have Susan Smith who I brought up earlier, drowned her two kids. So these are criminals. Of course, I weigh in on criminal. I say if you can decode the body language of murderers, I did a TED Talk, decode the body, decode the body language of mur- decode the body language of murderers to have a life you love. Because they have everything on the line, right? If they're gonna be good at detect- uh, lying, uh, it's now, because they are gonna lose their life potentially or their freedom at the very least.... so if you look at all those people, I think Ted Bundy blo- uh, and then there was, uh, um, the other guy that killed his pregnant wife.
Episode duration: 1:28:02
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