How to Read Body Language to Get What You Want | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Mel Robbins 0:00 (ticking sound) (instrumental music plays) I am really excited to introduce you to a woman that I met over a decade ago. She has spent over two decades decoding body language, trained by the FBI and the CIA. She has studied the biggest murderers on the planet in history. This is also an episode about empowerment. There are simple things that you can learn to do to gain more influence, to be more persuasive, and to exude confidence. We're gonna go true crime, murderers, and job interviews all in one episode. I can't wait for this. (instrumental music plays) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today, I am really excited to introduce you to a woman that I met over a decade ago who is one of the world's leading experts in decoding body language. So, for all you true crime junkies out there, you better buckle up, because you're about to get a master class from a woman who's not only hilarious, she's also so incredibly smart. She has spent over two decades decoding body language, trained by the FBI and the CIA. She has studied the biggest murderers on the planet in history. She can tell you what a shoulder shrug, or a lip lock, or a chin grab means. She can tell you how to decode the body language of somebody that you're dating, of the person you're working for. She can even help you understand the signaling that your kids are giving you, that they don't mean to give you when they're hiding information. But this goes way beyond decoding lies and deception. This is also an episode about empowerment, because there are simple things that you can learn to do in meetings, in interviews, on dates, with your family, to gain more influence, to be more persuasive, and to exude confidence. According to Janeen, you have untapped potential that is hiding right in plain sight, and today, she is going to pull back the curtain and she's gonna show you the secrets to increase your influence and spot deception when it rises around you. Are you ready? We're gonna go true crime, murderers, and job interviews all in one episode. I can't wait for this. Let's get Janeen on. (gasps) Ah!

Janine Driver 2:31 Hi, Mel.

Mel Robbins 2:32 I am so proud of you. You look so fabulous in yellow, and-

Janine Driver 2:36 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 2:36 ... I can't wait to just shout you and your wisdom from the rooftops.

Janine Driver 2:43 Thank you.

Mel Robbins 2:44 And so we're gonna start at the beginning, since most people don't have the- Most people have seen you on TV. People are fans of true crime, um, these captivating, mind-blowing murder cases that really just capture our attention, and you are the expert that is on speed dial-

Janine Driver 3:03 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 3:04 ... for every major network, to analyze body language. And so while people know you based on your expertise and wisdom that you've shared on some of these landmark cases, they don't really know your background. So, can you explain how on earth did you get into the work that you do? You've been- you've been analyzing murderers for the FBI, the CIA for decades. How did you get into this work?

Janine Driver 3:34 When I was at six years old... No. If we really do go back to six, quite frankly, at six, I was molested by a next

Janine Driver 3:40 door neighbor, and there are three types of people that are good at reading people. Kids who are abused physically, emotionally, verbally, um, they need to know when dad comes home and he puts his hat on a weird way, or cracks open the beer, or mom gets the vodka, whatever it is, that tonight's not gonna be a good night. So for me, it happened to be a next door neighbor. And by the grace of God, my mother believed me. Now, I believe today, as a swearing Christian, I believe that everything happens for my greater good. So at 16, a guy tried to kidnap me. I was going to Mister Donuts, I worked at a Mister Donut place, now a Dunkin' Donuts. I'm from Boston, like you, right? And, um, I picked up my check, I was on my bike, it was a rainy morning, it was 5:30 in the morning, 1986. E.T. came out that year. You may remember, um, little Adam Walsh went missing that year. And in my little 16-year-old brain, I just turned 16, I was thinking when this guy tried to kidnap me with his car, "He's gonna get me." I became like Liam Neeson in like a future movie, right, like, "He will get you," (laughs) you know? And, um, I swear, having that trauma when I was six saved me at 16. Um, and my little brain immediately was raining. He said, "Hey, kid, why don't we put your bike in the trunk of my car, and, uh, I'll give you a ride home." And that, you know, Malcolm, you know, um, Gavin de Becker will call it the gift of fear. The gift of fear just was like pssh. And I knew I couldn't drive 2.8 miles home 'cause he's just gonna hit me with his car. He doesn't care if I'm dead. He's gonna, he's gonna put my broken bones in the car and do whatever he's gonna do to me. But I saw BayBank one block away, and I'm like, "If I can get to BayBank, maybe my parents will have the closure," unlike Adam Walsh's family, who were looking for him. They didn't know who took him outside of a Sears parking lot. And I was like, because I, in my little 16-year-old brain, because of all the trauma at 6:06, was- it- it just began to change how I thought of the world. And I said, "If I can get to BayBank, maybe there'll be a camera," and I got there, and by what I call the grace of God, the fence behind BayBank had been ripped open, like cut open. It was a metal fence. It looked 20 feet, but it was probably only like eight feet. And I rode my- he followed me, lo and behold, right to the bank, Mel, and you at home listening, and I drove through the hole, down a- a six-foot embankment into a- a shopping, another shopping plaza, called 911. My parents are sound asleep. It's 5:30 in the morning. A police officer drives me home. My parents have no idea I've left the house.

Mel Robbins 5:59 Oh...My God.

Janine Driver 6:02 That's where it began. Because when I went into college, I majored in English Communications, 'cause I'm fascinated about what makes human beings tick. And then I ended up getting a job with ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. I never heard of them. There originally... Elliot Ness, from the tax days, we used to be part of Treasury, now with the Justice Department, loved human behavior, how to spot if someone's lying. And I worked for ATF for 17 years, retired at 38, when I got a half a million dollar book deal with Random House to write a book, You Say When You Think. And the reason I got that is I watched a can, ca, uh, Dan Kennedy marketing video one night-

Mel Robbins 6:41 (laughs)

Janine Driver 6:41 ... and he was talking to restaurant people, and he goes, "Hey, you need to say you make the best meatballs, you have the best Italian food." And if someone says, "No, I make the best meatball, Mel Robbins," now we got a cook-off and we've got media there. You and I love our media and inspiring people to look at their world in a different way with what we know. And, and I was like, "Oh, what am I an expert at?" And today they call it manifesting. And so I was like, "What am I an expert at? What do... I need to claim it." You know, "What is it?" And I went to work the next day at ATF in DC. I'm from Boston originally, and lived all over the country, Seattle, Georgia, West Virginia, and worked at the World Trade Center in New York City. And I went to work. Ben Peters always gets a be, bagel with me. He comes in, I go, "Ben, shut the door."

Mel Robbins 7:21 (laughs)

Janine Driver 7:22 "What's going on? I gotta know how to tell you this, but I'm leaving ATF. I'm a New York Times best-selling author. I go on TV shows all the time. I go, I, I'm qu-quoted in magazines and books. I'm the go-to body language detecting deception expert for the media." He goes, "When did this happen?" I go, "9:35 PM last night."

Mel Robbins 7:38 (laughs)

Janine Driver 7:39 Two weeks later, I was on Fox News with Tony Snow, who later became the press secretary for George W. Bush. And then I put that on a website, Lyon Tamer, L-Y-O-N, 'cause I could tell if you're a lyin', LyonTamer.com. Four months later, the Today Show sees it. There were three body language experts that had site, websites then. They dug my vibe or whatever, my Boston moxie, I call it, Mel. And, uh, I've been on the Today Show, I don't know, over 100 times. Dr. Oz, Rachel Ray, the rest of these, Ra- Rachel Ray, sidebar really quick. I'm like, "What show do I wanna get on next?" I'm like, "Oh, this Rachel Ray chick," you know, she's kind of taking off. This is back in the day, you know-

Mel Robbins 8:18 Yeah.

Janine Driver 8:18 ... 20 years ago. And I wrote to every single story they had coming up, like, "Hey, are you meeting your future in-laws? We'd like to talk to you. Do you think your kids smoke?" And I'm like, "I'm the human lie detector. They call me the Lyon Tamer 'cause I can tell if you're lying." And I pitched them. Z, I, my, my degree in college was English Communications, and I had a concentration in public relations, and they taught me how to write press release. People say, "Who's your press agent?" I go, "North Adams State College in the Berkshires, now called Massachusetts-

Mel Robbins 8:48 (laughs)

Janine Driver 8:49 ... College of Liberal Arts." They are my PR agent.

Mel Robbins 8:51 (gasps)

Janine Driver 8:52 And I wrote to 12, my, my son, who's now 17 and six-foot-one, was a baby, and I wrote to every single pitch, like ev- every single upcoming show. And then, that was a Wednesday, Mel, and you went home. On Friday, my phone rang, "Janine Driver, this is Maggie Barnes, the Rachel Ray show." And I said, swear to God, "Maggie, I've been expecting your phone call." Went on that show, a flirting show, a woman who was very successful, educated, smart, wealthy, had her own place, couldn't get a second date. They sent me in like Ashton Kutcher. I, like, spied on her body language.

Mel Robbins 9:27 (laughs)

Janine Driver 9:27 Th- um, Mel Robinson was gonna say, Rachel Ray surprises the girl, her name's Nicole, now married and still friend of mine, surprises Nicole and brings out her favorite date. But the producers messed up. They didn't have a seat for him. So, Rachel Ray gave her seat to him. She sat on my lap. I had red spiky hair, like the Heat Miser, and a guy is turning the channel who is a literary agent, Dan Lazar, says, "Why is Rachel Ray sitting on that redheaded lady's lap? What is this all about?" I got a book deal. They went into a bidding war, and ultimately, Random House bought my first book, You Say When You Think. So, um, that's how I got to where I am, and the rest is history. And now my job is to inspire people, that you're listening to your podcast, to look at their world in a different way, break any limited beliefs. I believe in manifesting, 'cause I've, I'm living proof that it works. You plant... Hey, Mel, you plant pumpkin seeds, what does it grow?

Mel Robbins 10:23 Uh, pumpkins?

Janine Driver 10:24 You plant tomato seeds. What does it grow?

Mel Robbins 10:26 Tomatoes?

Janine Driver 10:28 Yeah. People get what they grow. They get what they plant. You grow what you plant. So, I'm very positive. I teach something called statement analysis. I don't, I never say, "Don't run in the street. Don't touch that." I say what I want, not what I don't want. I say, "Hey, hey, hey, out of the kitchen. Everyone stay in the living room. Don't touch that. Don't touch that." I say, "Hands off." We need to, I believe, flip the script and plant positive seeds if you want to manifest goodness. So that's who I am. That's my background.

Mel Robbins 10:56 Well, Janine, couple, uh, that was a, I'm s- my mi- my mind is still processing. So, I wanna go back and ask you, you said there are three types of people who learn to read body language. What are they?

Janine Driver 11:13 People who are abused.

Mel Robbins 11:14 Mm-hmm.

Janine Driver 11:14 By the way, that's, that was called an open

Janine Driver 11:16 loop. An open loop is when you give a little bit of information and not the rest, and it makes people riveted and it creates an open loop in their head. We still wonder if, you know, Chandler and Monica are still married, you know, in this pretend world of Friends. You know? Did Rachel and Ross ever get married, right? These open loops. So I love that you brought me back to close this loop for people. One is kids who are abused in some type of way. Two, people like the Secret Service, who are trained every single day to look for the anomalies, to look for what doesn't fit. You would think school teachers and therapists and judges would be good at detecting deception, and they are not. They are not.

Mel Robbins 11:52 Why?

Janine Driver 11:54 They're not trained every day to, to what to look for. They don't know. I'll, I'll give you a s- quick sidebar here. There's a hand gesture that turns agreement to disagreement, and no one's ever told us what it is, Mel. And it's the-

Mel Robbins 12:03 What is it?

Janine Driver 12:04 ... easiest thing. So I say to you, you go, "Hey, Janine, next time I'm in DC, I'd love to... Let's go to dinner."... right? "I don't drink," but maybe you say, "Let's get iced tea." And I go, "Okay, Mel, that sounds great," and I nod my head yes. I'm saying yes, but I take my hand and I touch the back of my head at the same time, and I go, "Yeah, that sounds great, Mel. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, let's get together." Or, that's what men tend to do, women will go to the nape of

Janine Driver 12:30 our neck and we lift our hair up, for those of you who are listening and maybe not seeing this right now. And when someone says yes and they shake their head yes, but they touch their head at the same time, that's called a high-level pacifier. That's indicating there's something they're uncertain about. So, maybe when you say, "Hey, when you come to town... When I come to town, Janine, let's go out for steak." And I go, "Okay, yeah, that sounds good, but I just became a vegan," or, "I doing intermittent fasting and I don't eat three days a week now."

Mel Robbins 12:58 Hmm.

Janine Driver 12:59 It's just telling you my definite yes actually has a non-verbal maybe. There's a problem. So, I say it's like you opened a file cabinet and a file of something I'm not telling you, this, like, top secret file, and all we need to do is say, "Maybe I'm wrong here. It seems to me there's something you're uncertain about." "Well, I just became vegan, Mel. Can we get something vegan?"

Mel Robbins 13:20 Wow. What a-

Janine Driver 13:22 But no one taught us this. This is why judges and teachers and therapists don't know, because no one's teaching us... You know, we're not teaching this emotional intelligence aspect in schools, sadly. And so, one of my big things is, I speak to schools for free. I do Zoom calls for schools, middle schools and high schools and colleges for free, because I want human beings to know what I know so we can... You know, I'm all about kindness and love, and, and positivity. So, so the third group, people are abused, kids are abused, people are trained what to look for, like, like the Secret Service, all day long, what's the anomaly? And the third group is people who have had a left brain stroke and the right brain takes over. So, people who have a left brain stroke, the right brain takes over, which is the non-verbals and spotting these little teeny movements that people make.

Mel Robbins 14:10 Wow.

Janine Driver 14:11 But you can train yourself to be better at it. You can't-

Mel Robbins 14:13 Well, but-

Janine Driver 14:13 I say you can't unsee it, unhear it, unexperience it. So, when, uh, we're talking, Mel and I, and I... and if I share something with you, I want you to try it on. If you're watching, you just saw Mel did it. So, everyone, e- wherever you are, in your car, at the gym, just say, "Yeah, that sounds really good, Janine. I'd love to get together," and pat your s- head, pat the back of your head. Say, "Mel, come here. I'm having fun."

Mel Robbins 14:31 Yeah, you're literally, like, going, "I'm lying to you 'cause I really don't want to," as I'm petting my hair or I'm touching my neck. And I, I, I bet you see this a lot on first dates where somebody's trying to get it to a second date, and they're like, "I think we should do this again." And you probably see people nodding, going, "Yeah, that'd be great," and then they go and touch their neck, and that means, "Yeah, not really."

Janine Driver 14:50 Well, here's the deal. I'm recently single, got divorced a couple years ago, by the grace of God.

Mel Robbins 14:55 (laughs)

Janine Driver 14:55 But we get along great. And, um, when I see a guy doing that on a date, I immediately think to myself, "Janine Driver, stop talking." I talk non-stop, and my goal for 2023, going beyond, is to be interesting... I mean, to be interested more than being interesting. And I find myself often sharing this cool stuff that I know and not being interested. So, for the talkers or the extro... I'm an extrovert introvert, but, i- if you're listening, you know, how... Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for you," right? So, uh, I wanna be interested more than interesting. So, when I see pacifying gestures like this, high level, the higher the pacifier, the more stress and anxiety. Britney Spears lied. Britney Spears said that, uh, you know, Matt Lauer... Uh, that... He's a real peach, but Matt Lauer said, "You're pregnant and divorcing." That's what the rag mags say. She said, "None of that's true," and rubbed her leg. Two weeks later, she filed for divorce from her husband at the time, Kevin Federline. So, this pacifying happens at all parts of our body, but the higher the pacifier, the more stress and anxiety. Why? Our brain is in here. These high-level face pacifiers are indicating stress. Think about people rubbing their eyes. So, right now, if everyone just touches your eye and, and the p- your boss says to you, or your boyfriend, "Hey, let's go to Aruba instead of going skiing this year," and you go, "Okay, not a problem," or your boss says, "Hey, um, can you get this done by Monday," and it's Friday at 5:00, right? And you go, "Okay, boss, not a problem," and you touch the part of your eye. Babies, when they're crying, Mel... You're a mom, I'm a mom. Maybe you at home are a mom, or you were once a kid, for sure. Babies, just before they fall asleep, they rub their eyes.

Mel Robbins 16:36 (gasps) That's right. They do.

Janine Driver 16:38 When we touch our eyes, there is a nerve behind our eye. You could Google it. I show it in my class. An fMRI study was done. When you touch your eye, it then affects this nerve that tickles our brain and dumps dopamine in our body, and dopamine has us fall asleep. So, when you wake up in the morning, the last thing you should do is rub your eyes, because I know you're not a snooze person, Mel. You don't hit that snooze button, go, go, go, right? And you talk about what happens when you go back into... You are even more tired and grumpy, and all your amazing information you share with us and the world. So, don't rub your eye. The better thing is to rub... Um, throw cold water on your face. You could literally dunk your face in cold water. It's called the scuba diving effect, and it will stimulate you. If you're in a meeting or on a date and someone starts touching their eye, it's likely stress has increased. By the way, Putin even does this. So, Putin, this master manipulator, people sing his praises about this, th- how great he is at not being spotted when he's deceptive or stressed. He'll touch his eyes as well under high stress. So, in a meeting, it says to me, subconsciously, right? It connects to us as a baby. We don't realize we're touching our eye, but your brain is getting so stressed in your body that you're dumping dopamine to say, "It's okay. It's okay." President Obama, uh, you know, if you're on the other side and you like, um, Trump, right? Uh, uh, you see world leaders, you see corporate titans, when they do this... I show a video of, um, the president of Mexico when Obama was president here. The president of Mexico said, "Obama, President Obama and the United States can help us ker- I believe they can help us curb the cartel problem in our country." And when he says it, he does a bunch of body language that indicates uncertainty and then touches his inner eye.

Mel Robbins 18:20 Wow.

Janine Driver 18:21 And I show that to my keynote presentations, and I say, "How confident is he that Obama and the United States can help?" And they burst out laughing.

Mel Robbins 18:28 So, you've spent decades studying murderers, liars, world leaders, becoming an expert at decoding this hidden language.

Janine Driver 18:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:40 What do we need to know, like in our everyday lives? What are the basics that you want everybody to be equipped with so that we can spot when people are lying, so that we can spot these signals that somebody is giving to us and be more empowered in life? Where do we even begin, Janeen?

Janine Driver 19:00 Uh, this is a great question, Mel. I- at first, I would start with us before decoding others, right?

Mel Robbins 19:04 Okay.

Janine Driver 19:05 So emotional intelligence is self-awareness, social awareness, self-adaptation, motivating others to be the best version of themselves. So let's start with self-awareness, okay?

Mel Robbins 19:15 Okay.

Janine Driver 19:15 When it comes to ourselves, what is- a lot's happening. I call it a behavioral fingerprint. What's your behavioral fingerprint? You know, what's your movement DNA look like?

Mel Robbins 19:24 I have no idea. (laughs)

Janine Driver 19:26 Well, you're- you're so dynamite. Are you kidding? You- you've been- you've- you've- you've- listen, you're like making a bagel in your kitchen or whatever, like, and then you say some soundbite and it goes, you know, millions of people are watching it and lives are being changed because of it. Your body language is great. You're very authentic. And here's why. If we can im- I love trees, and if you at home can imagine a

Janine Driver 19:45 tree, there's the four stages of how we communicate. And if you think of a tree, Mel, and you at home, is, uh, that we're gonna start with the roots of the tree. The roots of the tree is what we believe. I spoke at, uh, Georgetown University, and someone said, a woman, at the end of my presentation, uh, "Excuse me, I have a group interview tomorrow. Five people are interviewing me. Janeen, is there a question you would ask at the end of the interview?" And I said, "Yes, I would ask, to each of them,

Janine Driver 20:12 'What do you consider the ideal candidate to look like and how do I measure up to your expectation of the ideal candidate?'"

Mel Robbins 20:18 Oh.

Janine Driver 20:18 And the woman, had you all been there, you would have seen her and heard her say, "Oh, I could never ask that. I would look desperate." And you would have heard me respond, "You're right. You would look desperate. I would look confident."

Mel Robbins 20:32 Is that because of the roots?

Janine Driver 20:34 It's because of the roots of the tree. It's what I believe, because I really wanna know that question. A lot of us, and for the women who are listening, a lot of us women, we really do ourselves a huge disservice. Men go in, and men say, "Uh, excuse me, Mel, I just found out my mother's coming to town Fourth of July. I'm taking four days off." Confident. Solid body language. Women, we ask the same question that same day. We will often, many of us, come in shoulder-shrugging. And we put our shoulders up to our ears. "Hey boss, I just found out," shoulder shrug, "that my mother's coming to town," shoulder shrug. "Uh, I didn't know she was coming. Could I take the Fourth of July off?" And your boss says, "Yes" to Bob and "No" to Jane. "Jane, ask me again in June." And we walk away and say, "This is- this is what happens. See, it's a double standard." Now, I'm not saying there's not a double standard with men and women, 'cause there is. But there are some areas where we have to take responsibility for the results we're getting, and here's the why- reason. When we shoulder-shrug, we're gonna talk about this hopefully in a bit, but a shoulder shrug means uncertainty, and it's also connected to deception, which we'll talk about hopefully in a- in a minute. But a shoulder shrug means uncertainty, and we have mirror neurons. You yawn, Mel, or Donna, or Jessie, or Amy, or Andrea, whoever's listening, you yawn, I yawn. Science. Mel, I know you love science. I know you love what's happening in the brain and how the brain and the body are talking to one an- one another, 'cause they are. So, when I come in uncertain, how am I making my boss feel, Mel?

Mel Robbins 22:03 Uncertain.

Janine Driver 22:03 Uncertain.

Mel Robbins 22:04 And they probably don't even realize it. Like, e- like, you, I s- I've- I've been watching a bunch of your TED Talks, and you did this exercise with the audience, and we can do it with everybody listening, where simply take a second and say the words, "Can I have the Fourth of July off?" while your shoulders are hiked up towards your ears, and you'll realize your entire body and energy is questioning the words that are coming out of your mouth. It's impossible, Janeen. You're absolutely right. I've never even thought about it. Impossible to even feel confident

Mel Robbins 22:35 if you're talking with your shoulders up at your ears.

Janine Driver 22:39 Right. Right.

Mel Robbins 22:39 You're shrugging them up, and-

Janine Driver 22:41 Well, you're planting pumpkin seeds and expecting tomatoes to grow.

Mel Robbins 22:44 (laughs) It's true. I mean, come on.

Janine Driver 22:47 And it- it begins with the roots, though.

Mel Robbins 22:49 It's not our fault.

Janine Driver 22:50 It's not your fault, because no one is teaching us this, okay? We just wanna be liked. We don't wanna be inconveniencing people. We don't know if we're bothering. But if you look at the- the- many of the men in Confident Alpha Women, they just come in unapologetically. That's the roots of the tree. What is it that you're planting? Because what you're planting is going to grow whatever the seed is connected to. So get to those roots of the tree. It's what do you believe. What's the trunk of the-

Mel Robbins 23:12 The second part, the trunk.

Janine Driver 23:13 Wha- huh? Yeah. Okay, what's the second part? Yeah, the trunk of the tree is body language. And now, this is interesting, because after body language comes the branches. The branches, Mel, and you at home, are- i- the branches are thought. So this means body language comes before thought. And here's the deal. It comes up to five seconds before thought. D- Mel, do you think five seconds is a- is a good advantage for the military? Would five seconds matter?

Mel Robbins 23:41 I- i- it's life or death, I would think.

Janine Driver 23:43 Do you think five seconds hap- matter with an athlete?

Mel Robbins 23:46 If it's winning or losing.

Janine Driver 23:48 Can five seconds with you, with your 10-second rule, can five seconds make a difference?

Mel Robbins 23:52 Of course.

Janine Driver 23:53 Can I jump out of bed-

Mel Robbins 23:54 Yes.

Janine Driver 23:54 ... at five seconds?

Mel Robbins 23:55 Yes.

Janine Driver 23:57 With- understanding what I'm talking about now, first is the intention, the roots of the tree, then bod- uh, then body language, and then thought. This means you get a five-second advantage to know how someone else feels before their brain knows how they feel. This is why when I say, "Hey, Mel, I can't come and join you for Thanksgiving this year," and you go, "Not a problem, Janeen," and your lips disappear. Everyone pull your lips in and just say, "Not a problem. I don't mind."

Mel Robbins 24:24 Not a problem.

Janine Driver 24:25 ... and pull your lips in. Okay?

Mel Robbins 24:28 Make them disappear.

Janine Driver 24:29 Make them disappear. And so, uh, Mel goes, "Not a problem, Janine." I say, "When we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear." Or a lip roll is em- emotional control.

Mel Robbins 24:39 What's a lip roll look like?

Janine Driver 24:40 So... Uh, that's this.

Mel Robbins 24:42 Oh. So-

Janine Driver 24:42 Lips disappearing. Rolling those lips in.

Mel Robbins 24:45 Okay.

Janine Driver 24:45 Okay? So Mel says, "Not a problem." I now have a five-second advantage. I know that there is a problem, because Mel's lips disappeared, and when we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear, so I know there is a problem. I know my dad's a hothead. When I see my dad's lips disappear, I've got five seconds to get my kids in the truck and get the heck out of Maine and my dad's cottage before my kids see the angry dad that I grew up with 'cause they don't believe he exists. Right?

Mel Robbins 25:12 Yeah.

Janine Driver 25:12 So I have a five-second of your dad's lips to go, "We gotta go, go, go," you know? "Move on out." You know? It's like the Indy 500, fixing the tires, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, really quick. So I might stick around and say, "Mel, you know, maybe I'm wrong here. It seems that you're disappointed," or there's, you know, there's something you're not saying. Five seconds later, I'm gonna tell you what that person's gonna say. "Yeah, I am mad 'cause last year you were supposed to come and you backed out three days before then." You have a five-second head start if you can decode body language, because the body language people are showing you, their brain doesn't realize how they feel just yet. Body language shows up before the branches, before that thought. And the last one are the leaves. The leaves of the tree, Mel, are the words, and words matter because words plant the next seed.

Mel Robbins 25:59 Hmm.

Janine Driver 25:59 The words matter. What falls off the tree is planting that next seed. I recently heard on TikTok, and by the way, my friend said, "You don't say you saw it on TikTok. You say you read it in the New York Times recently."

Mel Robbins 26:12 (laughs)

Janine Driver 26:12 So, I told my sons, my three sons, I go, "I recently read in the New York Times," and Jackie, he's my wise guy, the little one, he- he goes, "Yeah? I heard Terry Moore tell you when you see something on TikTok to say you read it in the New York Times, so what you're about to tell us, did you really see it on TikTok, Mom?" I'm like, "Damn you, Jackie, and your wiseness," you know? So here's what I heard on TikTok, and maybe your listeners have heard it and maybe you've said it too. Did, have you heard, have you talked about the bees and the flies?

Mel Robbins 26:38 No.

Janine Driver 26:40 So the bees are not flying around trying to convince the flies that honey tastes better than shit.

Mel Robbins 26:49 (laughs)

Janine Driver 26:50 So I'm gonna repeat that. The bees are not wasting time convincing flies that honey tastes better than shit. I want a tribe of bees. I still wanna inspire and- and- and- and influence the world, but only for the flies who are interested in tasting the honey. I recently broke up with a guy that I was dating named Jimmy. He's a m- and he's amazing. I'm 5'9", I'm thick. He's 6'6". He's an animal, right? He's like this giant, it's the first time I ever smelt- smelt- felt small. I finally started eating carbs again dating Jimmy. I'm like, "I can date carbs, I'm dating this giant." And I had to break up with him because of what my mother would call his stinkin' thinkin'. He is planting these seeds of negativity, he's like, "People are gonna take advantage of your weak, you're, they're gonna mistake your kindness for weakness." He's planting the wrong seeds for me. I want a bee, I don't want a fly. So he's a fly. So someone said to me last night, "So you've been single for two years and you're on these dating apps. What's going on? How come you're still single?" I said, "Because I'm looking for bees. I'm looking for bees or flies that wanna hang out with bees. That's what I'm looking for." So, it goes back to the power of our words is creating what's coming next, right? It's- it's what are you planting? What are you planting? Get out of your stinkin' thinkin'. You have 17 seconds to stop complaining, and research says you have to, after 17 seconds, you have to bring your self-esteem back up, you have to say at least five positive things about yourself. And if you, after 17 seconds, if you add on a negative thing, another negative thing, you create momentum. And when you create momentum, then it's hard to stop the negativity, and you may talk about this, so excuse me if you do.

Mel Robbins 28:33 Uh, d- no, I'm- I'm just fascinated listening to everything that you're saying. I want though to focus on how we can become better at spotting when somebody's lying to us, at spotting-

Janine Driver 28:47 Okay.

Mel Robbins 28:47 ... 'cause I think that there's a lot of, you know, y- in the work that you and I do, you often find somebody after the heartbreak, after the cheating, after somebody has lied to you, and what I would love for you to help us understand is how can we get better at spotting the signs that, based on decades of research, based on your expertise, the signs aren't lying. Like, we can lie to ourselves and we can make excuses for the way people are treating us, and we do all the time, and you always say, "Stop listening to what people are saying and start looking at how they're treating you, because that's the truth about how they feel about you," but the signs don't lie.

Janine Driver 29:30 Right.

Mel Robbins 29:30 And half the time, people shrugging their shoulders or folding in their lips or m- kinda sending these body language signals, they don't even realize they're doing it, because the signs don't lie.

Janine Driver 29:41 Yes.

Mel Robbins 29:41 And so what are the big ones that we-

Janine Driver 29:44 Right.

Mel Robbins 29:44 ... have to be aware of? Yeah.

Janine Driver 29:46 So the big one... So, so if I can just put a cap on that last part of-

Mel Robbins 29:49 Yep.

Janine Driver 29:49 ... understanding yourself, there are body language moves you can do to be, uh, seen as confident and powerful. One is, I'm doing it now if you're seeing me, it's called steepling, and you would see Mr. Burns do this, it's fingertips to fingertips, making like a church steeple. When we steeple people, we intimidate people. The higher the steeple, the more intimidation. So it's a sign of confidence, so a nice low steeple, especially if you're a woman in a meeting and men are like over-talking you, instead of saying, "Let me finish," with the palm down gesture like you're the police on a raid and telling people to get on the ground, if you just lean back and steeple, uh, someone else at the table will quiet down the people who are interrupting you. So, that when we steeple people, we intimidate people. It's a sign of confidence. Another is to-

Mel Robbins 30:29 Let me ask you a question about that.

Janine Driver 30:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:31 So, just so everybody listening gets this, 'cause I think this is critical, you're in a meeting at work or you're at a family dinner or you're out with a bunch of girlfriends or whatever, and people are talking over you.... you're saying that instead of raising your hand or, "Stop talking over me," or continuing to talk, if you lean back, you put your fingertips together and make kind of like a church steeple or a triangle, and you lean back in your chair-

Janine Driver 31:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 31:00 ... and then you stare at the person who is talking over you, or what do you do?

Janine Driver 31:05 Well, you can do, you could either stop looking at them or look at their forehead, and you would think that they don't feel it, but when someone's being disrespectful, if you look at their forehead, it can change it. Um, I don't want to get into some advanced stuff, but w- I'll tell you this. When we talk to people, I talk out of my right eye into your left eye, 'cause you're opposite me, right? So our, I'm talking primarily out of my right eye. All human beings, doesn't matter if you're righty or lefty, we talk out of our right eye into your left eye. If I want to intimidate you 'cause I don't like your behavior or the inappropriate things you're saying, my right eye will go diagonal to your right eye. And when I, I, you can do this to a waitress and, and they come to take your order, and you just focus your right eye to their right eye, so you're gonna go diagonal, and they'll, they'll start to pacify. You'll see them fix their hair, touch their throat, because it's this little hidden power that we have. So you can look at someone's forehead. You can look out of your predominant right eye here as you're talking to someone's left eye, diagonal, crossing, and then that steeple, or just stop looking th- at them altogether and stop giving them your attention. And the steepling, someone else at the table, whether it's professional or personal, will say, "Hey, Mike," "Hey, Jeff," "Hey, Susan, stop interrupting her. Let her finish." You know, I like to say, "Do you wanna be right or do you wanna be effective?" In the old days-

Mel Robbins 32:25 Effective.

Janine Driver 32:26 ... I would be like mouthy, you know? And I'd be like, you know, attitudy. But n- I would always leave, I was always the bad guy walking out of the meeting, and I got sick of being the bad guy. And I'm like, "Okay, I need to be more effective here." My mother taught me steepling. She was a nurse. She's since passed, and, and I had a boss that used to point, and she'd be like,

Janine Driver 32:43 "Richard, my office now. Marjorie." She'd walk into this pool of people at desks, and they became cartoon figures. Their eyes popped out of their head, and they looked full of fear. And I called my mother, I was 25, I was in th- World Trade Center in New York, and I go, "Mom, my boss does this aggressive thing. If she does it to me, I'm mouthy. You know, I'm gonna lose my cool job with ATF." My mother was a nurse for elderly homeless people, ME-L, in Boston, Committee to Eld- E- End Elderly Homelessness, and at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge. I went home, five foot two, I'm five nine, she's a peanut. She goes, "I want you to do this." This is before I knew what was called steepling and fingertips to fingertips. And I go, "What's that called?" She goes, "I have no idea. (laughs) I just know when a doctor says," my mom was Lorraine, "Lorraine, can I talk to you about the last patient?" She goes, "I always feel like I'm in trouble." So lo and behold, Colleen, my boss at the World Trade Center, did it to me two months later. "Janine, my office." She pointed at me, was aggressive. I pulled out mom's move, which I now know is called steepling. Oprah Winfrey does it all the time. I walked casually behind Colleen with my steeple. When I went into her office, had you been there, you would have heard her say, "Do you know why I called you in my office?" And with my steeple in hand, I s- responded the way Mom told me. I said, "I have a pretty good idea, Colleen." She goes, "Why?" I go, "I'm exceeding all your expectations."

Mel Robbins 33:57 (laughs)

Janine Driver 33:58 As you might imagine, she's like, "What? I'll do that at the end of the year in an evaluation." I gotta spread it out. I love attention from my boss, still steepling. Every now and then, call me in, and I'll come skipping in. I come in early, I stay late. I know I'm exceeding your expectations. Isn't that why you call me in? She didn't know what to do. I worked for her for three and a half years. She never called me in her office again. The reason she had called me in that day was to bully me. And when I said, "Why did you call me in?" she said, "Oh, I just wanted to see how you're enjoying living in New York City." She was a bully boss. So if you have bully bosses and bully people in your life, pull out that steeple, 'cause when you steeple people, you have power over people.

Mel Robbins 34:34 Does it work with a spouse or somebody you're dating

Janine Driver 34:37 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:37 ... steepling?

Janine Driver 34:37 And kids. Yeah, yeah, they, they feel like they're in trouble. Yeah, so if you wanna make them feel like they're in trouble and that you're not gonna be pushed around easily, 100% steeple.

Mel Robbins 34:45 Steeple. I love it. It's almost like a little shield that you're creating. It's like you can become your own superhero, superpower when you steeple. It's like Wonder Twins unite and they used to hit-

Janine Driver 34:56 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 34:56 ... their fists. Like, you're now-

Janine Driver 34:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 34:57 ... creating a force field. You, you are in charge when you put the steeple up. I absolutely love that.

Janine Driver 35:04 I love it too.

Mel Robbins 35:05 Thank you.

Janine Driver 35:05 You know, I don't, do you know Desiree Gruber? Have you ever met her?

Mel Robbins 35:08 No.

Janine Driver 35:08 So she's in New York City. Um, she came up with the idea, marketing company, of the, uh, Victoria's Secret Fashion Show back in the day. And by the way, Victoria's Secret initially didn't want it, and then when they had it, it blew out the internet. It was the first time the internet crashed, was the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. And Victoria's Secret wasn't happy at first, and then the publicity exploded. Victoria's Secret Fashion Show with the wings and the lingerie. Well, she once sent me a picture, she's a client, and she sent me a picture of her steepling in the Oval Office in the White House because she said she was nervous with all those heavy hitters, so she brought her steeple out in the Oval Office. Nancy Pelosi, all these people were there.

Mel Robbins 35:46 That's pretty cool.

Janine Driver 35:47 And so when you're nervous, steeple, you can fake it there. So, and the other move I wanted to show you is a chin grab. Uh, Indra Nooyi is the former CEO of PepsiCo. I love Indra Nooyi. Google her if everyone doesn't know who she is. Um, Indian, she was raised in India. She has a sister. Her mother used to, every night at the dinner table, have her and her sister debate. "You're running for president of the United States." "You're running for prime minister of Australia." And they would debate. She grows up, becomes a female CEO of PepsiCo.

Mel Robbins 36:11 Wow.

Janine Driver 36:12 When she does interviews-

Mel Robbins 36:12 Maybe that's what I did wrong. I've just been going, "Get your elbows off the table." (laughs)

Janine Driver 36:16 (laughs) To your kids. So when

Janine Driver 36:18 she does an interview, look at Indra Nooyi, she grabs her chin, and I say, "When we grab our chin, we're about to win." Take a picture of yourself. How do you normally sit? And now-

Mel Robbins 36:26 Uh-

Janine Driver 36:26 ... take a picture of yourself while holding your chin. Look how much more intelligent we look. We look like we have a master's degree. We look like we have it all figured out.

Mel Robbins 36:32 I literally look like I just won the Pulitzer Prize.

Janine Driver 36:35 Yeah, look how confident you look.

Mel Robbins 36:35 And see, here, I figured I was joining, I was holding my chin 'cause it's very pointy. I don't really like it, so I'm kind of hiding it, but it-

Janine Driver 36:41 Oh.

Mel Robbins 36:42 ... uh, it does look very-

Janine Driver 36:43 Well, can I tell you about your pointy chin means?

Mel Robbins 36:45 ... astute.Yeah, what is my pointy chin?

Janine Driver 36:47 Like a shovel and a pointy chin-

Mel Robbins 36:50 (laughs)

Janine Driver 36:50 ... you can take it h- you can take something on the chin. And a pointy chin is like a shovel, in that you will fight for people. You, you will fight. You'll have that determination, is that, that, that chin right there. And so, that's all.

Mel Robbins 37:02 Wow. So, c-can you wa- I, I have to, I have to just tell you a quick story.

Janine Driver 37:07 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 37:07 When my husband was in the restaurant business, we couldn't go out to another restaurant and actually have a nice date, because the man would be so preoccupied, "Oh, there's 40 seats. There's this many wait-" Like, he was just in the, the, the language of running a restaurant, so he was-

Janine Driver 37:26 I can reverse engineer what he does with his body language based on you telling me that. Would you want me to tell you what he does with his body language?

Mel Robbins 37:32 Yeah. But what I was gonna say is, can you actually be with other people and not be decoding them?

Janine Driver 37:38 (laughs) Like that, that, uh, movie where Jim Carrey becomes God, right? And he turns it into sticky notes and then he turns it into an email system. Um, some things I can't unsee, but I have ADD, so sometimes I'm daydreaming and not paying attention. So if you prime me in advance to decode whoever you're with, um, then I'll see it all. Otherwise, I'm kind of not really payi- I can't unsee what we're about to talk about, detecting deception. I can't unsee the detecting deception hotspots I'm gonna share with you.

Mel Robbins 38:06 Okay.

Janine Driver 38:07 I can't un-notice them. So we'll go over those in a second, but I will, I'm gonna reverse engineer what your husband does, and I've never met him. I don't know him. I know about, you know, h- one business was doing well. He opened up another one and didn't do so well, and another one, didn't do so well.

Mel Robbins 38:19 Yes.

Janine Driver 38:19 And then I know your story about the, the, the, this rocket ship. So I wanted you to do a test, and you at home, anyone who pays attention to all the details like Mel's husband, right? All these little teeny details. I want you to watch how they drink their water tonight at dinner or tomorrow at breakfast or today at lunch, whatever time you're listening to this

Janine Driver 38:37 amazing Mel Robbins podcast, and I'm, I'm gonna tell you what they're gonna do with their water, these detail-oriented people. And by the way, I am not one of them-

Mel Robbins 38:45 (laughs)

Janine Driver 38:45 ... is when they drink their water... Mel, I want you to know this with your hus- What's his first name?

Mel Robbins 38:50 Chris.

Janine Driver 38:51 Chris. All right. He's gonna drink his water. When he puts the glass or the bottle on the table, he's gonna watch it until it hits the table. When he goes to pick up the bottle, he's gonna look at the bottle, keep looking at it as he grasps the bottle. He's gonna keep looking at it, grasp the bottle. People like me who are not detail oriented, what I do is I l- see, I see the table. I look down where the table is. I grab my bottle of water, but I'm still looking at you. So I look just to see, oh yeah, my water's still there. I look at the water and then I look back at you, and I pick it up without looking at the water. And now I'm looking at you and I put it down without looking at the table. I figure gravity and the thing I just picked it up from are still there. Detail-oriented people, they have a magnet glass that's like Inspector Creusse- Crusoe or Sherlock Holmes. And so when they talk to you, Jimmy Fallon, Amy Schumer, Jennifer Lawrence, their, their humor, all three of those people, are about the details. They remember words from movies and words from songs. Watch them in interviews, right? They will talk... They're like smart bombs. So it's not just the water, it's all their energy is directed in one area. So Jimmy Fallon will talk and his hand points up and his eyes point up. You see Jennifer Lawrence, "Hi, nice to meet you," with a handshake in her head. They're almost... I feel like I can't get away from their energy. If you're talking to me and all of a sudden, if Chris, your husband was doing this, I'd be like, "Whoa, detail-oriented, aren't you? You like to research the research and then recommend more research?" And watch how they put the drinks down. Um, I'm speaking today at a company called Paylocity, and two of their big executives, I watched them last night at their little cocktail hour and I secretly videotaped them.

Mel Robbins 40:31 Oh my God. Are you gonna-

Janine Driver 40:32 I-

Mel Robbins 40:32 ... play it during your keynote?

Janine Driver 40:33 Oh, yeah. I went up and asked for permission today.

Mel Robbins 40:36 (laughs)

Janine Driver 40:36 But as they drank their water, they watched it till it hit the table as if like, "Hi, I'll be right back. You made it." And I said, "Are you detail oriented? Do you love to research the research?" Two executives, they go, "Yes. How do you know that?" I go, "Simply by how I watched you drink your water." I said, "If I put a coaster on the table would... and it was crooked, would you adjust the coaster?" Both said, "100%." So in meetings, if you're listening and you're a business person, especially sales, make sure you have coasters crooked on the table. Now, some people who aren't detail oriented may just fix it 'cause it's irritating. But watch if they watch their glass when they put it d- all the way till it hits the table. Someone like me, I, when it hits the table, my eyes are back on you. It's not even looking at where it's from.

Mel Robbins 41:17 What does that tell you about how to sell to them?

Janine Driver 41:20 It says you, they want lots of deta- two things. One, they're gonna want lots and lots of details. That's number one. Number two, in your emails, if you are detail oriented and your emails are probably too long, and someone like me, I'm never gonna read your emails. I'm gonna pick up the phone and call and say, "Okay, what do I need to know about this event? What's the dress code? Where is it?" What you need to do if you're detail oriented and your emails or text messages at the top, think like Twitter. Here's the, what you must know.

Mel Robbins 41:45 Mm-Hmm.

Janine Driver 41:45 Here's the three things you must know. Additional information is below. Someone like me who's not motivated by details, I don't look at the water when I put it down or pick it up. I need to do the opposite. Here's what you need to know. Boom, boom, boom. Here's a link to additional information if you'd like to explore on your own. Fun things to do while you're in Orlando. Here's a link. Hotels you can stay in Orlando. Here's the link. Broadway, you know, shows you can see in New York. So if you understand people's m- behavioral fingerprints and there's a bunch of things, maybe I'll come back and play again and answer questions. You can sell to them differently. You can raise the kids differently. You can understand them. There's seven billion people, seven or eight billion in the plan- in the world. A- 26 billion different behavioral fingerprints.

Mel Robbins 42:31 Oh my God. Now I'm overwhelmed. You know which ones I wanna focus on?

Janine Driver 42:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:35 Deception.

Janine Driver 42:35 Deception. Here we go. Shoulder shrug. A shoulder shrug we talked about earlier is uncertainty. When I say, "Hey Mel, uh, what do you want for lunch? A salad? A BLT?" "I don't know. What do you want?" A shoulder shrug makes sense there. Your verbal says, "I don't know."... and your non-verbal says, "I don't know." It's congruent. But when I say, "Hey, Mel, um, your favorite TED Talk of mine is blank," and I shoulder shrug, it does not mean I don't like that talk, but it does indicate

Janine Driver 43:10 there's something I'm uncertain about. Ask me if I've ever cheated on my husband when I was married to him.

Mel Robbins 43:14 Did you ever cheat on your husband when you were married to him?

Janine Driver 43:16 No.

Mel Robbins 43:18 (laughs)

Janine Driver 43:18 Now, I said no, and for people who are listening, I shrugged at the same time, and that's why Mel's laughing. But it doesn't mean I cheated. See, that shrug means, Mel, you opened a file in a cabinet that says top secret of something I don't wanna share with you.

Mel Robbins 43:33 Oh.

Janine Driver 43:33 And maybe what I don't wanna share is that he cheated on me, and I'm called the human lie detector. Hypothetically, he cheated on me. Hypothetically, he went on Tinder two days before Christmas, and my friend told me 'cause he showed up in her account, hypoth- hypothetically. So, uh, the shoulder shrug doesn't mean I'm canceling what I'm saying, but it does mean there's something I'm uncertain about. And, and I may not even realize it yet. Why? 'Cause you have a five-second advantage over my brain. I don't even realize I'm uncertain about something right now. But if you can spot it, you can simply say, I call it MIW formula. Maybe I'm wrong. You know, maybe I'm wrong here, Mel, but it seems to me or it feels to me that you're uncertain about something. And then, let the person say, "Well, yeah, I just was in the bathroom and I overheard a woman saying her significant other is stepping out on her, and she's devastated." It's not my story to tell. But when you asked if I cheated on my husband, you kinda opened a file to just cheating in general. So that's why I was uncertain.

Mel Robbins 44:32 I noticed in a lot of your commentary, in some of the major murder cases that you have been an expert on, that shoulder shrugging, while husbands, in particular, who went on to be found guilty or confessing to murdering pregnant wives or members of their family, that during press conferences, you were picking up on shoulder shrugging.

Janine Driver 44:57 Yes.

Mel Robbins 44:57 So in our lives, if you have somebody in your life that you think is lying to you, whether it's a kid that you think is lying about what they were doing last night, or a significant other that you think might be cheating or might not be telling you the truth, is paying attention to whether or not they just sort of inadvertently, subconsciously raise their shoulders as they're talking, that is one clue that something's not right?

Janine Driver 45:25 Yes. Not only shoulders though, Mel, it's also hands. So sometimes a hand shrug, it's also uncertainty. Or a mouth shrug, like, "Mm, I don't know what to tell you." So, a hand shrug, a shoulder shrug or this like mouth shrug where you can feel that someone's uncertain, it's hard to describe it here, um, is indicating there's a hot spot here. We don't know what the catalyst is, but there's certainly something I'd wanna ask more questions on with regard to this. If you're confronting the people in your life, stop saying, "Whatever you do, don't lie to me." Our brain doesn't understand the word don't, and so you're giving them an embedded command to lie to you, and it's 30%, uh, approximately hypnotic, more hypnotic than you just saying, "Hey, during this interview, please lie to me." So, what you wanna say instead is, what hostage negotiators say, and I have mentors. I'm not a hostage negotiator. I have a mentor, Jim Kavanaugh, who is. Uh, y- what they say is, what you want instead is, "Whatever you do today, I want you to tell me the truth. Whether you tell me the truth or you don't," 'cause we don't hear don't, "'don't' tell me the truth, I know more than you think I know." So I'm gonna use that embedded command after the don't to say, "tell me the truth." So, Mel, I'm gonna ask you some questions-

Mel Robbins 46:35 Okay.

Janine Driver 46:35 ... about where you were last night."

Mel Robbins 46:37 Okay.

Janine Driver 46:37 "And whether you tell me the truth or you don't," pause, "tell me the truth, I know more than you think I do." Now, last night when you said you went out with your girlfriends, did anyone else show up and talk to you guys?

Mel Robbins 46:48 I'm scared.

Janine Driver 46:49 And I'm just doing

Narrator 46:49 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 46:50 I'm like, I'm literally scared.

Janine Driver 46:50 Hypothetically. Hypothetically.

Mel Robbins 46:50 I'm like shoulders down, lips out now.

Janine Driver 46:53 Like, where was I last night?

Mel Robbins 46:53 I don't know what I did. I think I was here.

Janine Driver 46:55 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 46:55 I think I was here.

Janine Driver 46:58 So-

Mel Robbins 46:58 So, so hold on. I wanna make sure that we get... So you now are gonna watch shoulder shrugs?

Janine Driver 47:06 Yes.

Mel Robbins 47:06 If you are feeling like something's off. If you are then going to open up the file and explore more, you're counseling us, number one, to either start with, "I could be wrong."

Janine Driver 47:19 Yes.

Mel Robbins 47:20 Or to say, "I'm gonna ask you a question, and you're either gonna tell me the truth or don't. Tell me the truth." It's the pause, right?

Janine Driver 47:33 That's it.

Mel Robbins 47:33 Because when they-

Janine Driver 47:34 The pause is everything.

Mel Robbins 47:34 ... hear the, "Tell me the truth," as the... 'Cause I heard you say, "Tell me the truth" twice.

Janine Driver 47:40 Yes.

Mel Robbins 47:41 The don't sort of got swept under the rug, which is why I all of a sudden got nervous.

Janine Driver 47:45 Yes. Yeah. Well, kids, kids, um, between the ages of 8 and 13, the, the likelihood... If you do this, the likelihood you'll get the kids to tell you the truth goes up to over 80%.

Mel Robbins 47:55 Really?

Janine Driver 47:56 Yeah. Yeah. It's called priming. So I'm like, I say I'm hijacking your brain, you know? And I... and then if I wanna take it to the next level, I'm gonna assign you a trait that I want you to have. You know, Mel, everyone out here tells me you're a truthful person. Is this true?

Mel Robbins 48:11 Yes.

Janine Driver 48:12 So-

Mel Robbins 48:12 Although I'm now thinking, am I truthful?

Janine Driver 48:14 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:14 I don't know if I'm truthful. Am I truthful? (laughs) I'm sit- sitting here. Th- I mean, I, I literally... When you do this 'cause I think you're looking right eye to right eye too.

Janine Driver 48:23 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:23 You're like commanding me.

Janine Driver 48:24 You're welcome.

Mel Robbins 48:26 So you can say to your kid or your spouse or somebody that works for you, "Everybody says that you're a very truthful person. Are you a truthful person?"

Janine Driver 48:32 You need to get them to say yes, because what you're creating is cognitive dissonance, because if you know that you're not a truthful person, but I just said yes, that I am, now we've created this, this fancy term called cognitive dissonance, which is confusing to the brain, and that's what we want. So, hostage negotiator, uh, my hostage negotiator mentor, Jim Kavanaugh, said to David Koresh, if you know, if you're in the younger side and you don't know about this, it was these Branch Davidian compound, um, this cult out in Texas years ago, the '90s. And he said to David Koresh, David Koresh was inside the compound on a payphone, my hostage negotiator mentor said, "Everyone out here says you're a man of your word. Is this true?"... Koresh said yes. Y- y- it, later, when, when Jim Kavanaugh said, "Will you let women and children go if we get your words read on the National Christian Radio Network?" Koresh said yes. Guess what? Because he had accepted the trait that he does what he says he's going to do, that he has integrity, he let women and children go, two by two, he said, like Noah's Ark. When the other hostage negotiator came on from the FBI ... No, no knock against the FBI, but not one other person walked out of that building alive. And it's not the FBI's fault. It was Jim Kavanaugh built such great rapport with David Koresh that he didn't want to work with anybody else. But we had ATF agents die, and so the FBI takes over. Now, by the way, I'm not saying ATF ... I used to work for ATF. I'm not saying ... They were in the wrong, 100%. They lost the element of surprise. They lied all the way up to Janet Reno. So I'm not, I'm not saying that. You know, they were ... They ... I don't wanna get into that political battle. But assigning people the traits you want them to have. Uh, my son, Angus, I went in and I said, "You're addicted to video games. You're addicted to video games. How many times have you told your kids you're addicted to video games?" And then we wonder when they're 20 and 30, they're addicted to porn, gambling, cheating, lying, alcohol. Well, th- the most important person in their life, us, told them over and over and over again they're an addict. So, how can we right now assign ourselves the trait, "I'm the world's greatest mom, honey, and I just found out how to be even better"? We gotta start with us. We gotta plant the seeds for us first, "We're great," and then reframe and, and reset how we talk to our kids. Say what we want, not what we don't want. 'Cause it's, here's why it comes back to body language. How we are talking to our kids and to ourselves is then going to influence the, the, the circle again, what we believe about ourselves and then the body language and our actions. So-

Mel Robbins 50:54 So, what do we say to them instead of, "You're addicted. You're playing too much." (babbles)

Janine Driver 50:58 I said to my son, Angus, "Hey, what game are you playing?" "Some zombie ac- apocalypse." I go, "How do you play? Do you have to kill the zombies or catch 'em?" He said, "Both." I go, "So you understand the importance of balance. Is that true? Do you understand the importance of balance, Angus?" He said, "Yeah." I go, "Hey, buddy. I thought so." I go, "Even your teachers tell me you're so good at balance, you know? You're always on time and stuff 'cause you're balancing your schedule throughout the day. Is that true too, at school?" "Yeah." "Oh, good. I don't know if you know, baby, but you've been playing video games for like four hours and your two brothers are swimming in the pool." He goes, "It's been four hours?" I go, "Yeah. How about we go swimming?" And he goes, "All right, all right," and goes ... I mean, legit goes swimming. So, we're making our lives so much harder, you know? And I think body language is great, and I can teach you to steeple, but if you steeple but you believe, you have this limited belief about yourself that you're not powerful and that you're a loser, and they're gonna know you're trying to scam them with your confidence, and it's fake confidence,

Janine Driver 51:52 then your shoulders are gonna be up and you're gonna look like this like character, you know, out of a Harry Potter movie. So, you've gotta believe it. You gotta believe it.

Mel Robbins 52:00 But how do you believe it if all you see is evidence that you failed or that you haven't believed in yourself or that you've put everybody else first? Like, how do you create new roots?

Janine Driver 52:16 Okay. I call this a reset, and I took a class with a woman, and we'll get back to detecting deception hopefully, but I took a class, have her on your podcast. Her name is A- Andrea Quinn. Now, I'm from Boston. We say Andrea. (American East Coast accent) She's from California. She says Andrea. (American West Coast accent) She has a new book out. Don't ask me the name. I don't know. Have your team look it up and, and we can shout it out maybe. So, Andrea Quinn. I took this class. She was out in LA. And she calls these moments when we fail or people knock us down good to knows. And if we can do a reset ... And she just calls 'em good to know. "Hey, Mel, I did not appreciate you, um, getting me back focused on detecting deception when I wanted to talk about leadership." Good to know.

Mel Robbins 52:55 Good to know.

Janine Driver 52:56 Good to know. They're just a bunch of good to knows. I, I spoke at an event called Campowerment. It's a, um, uh, a woman's-based event, and you all s- everyone sleeps in tents and um, I mean, in, um, little cabins and stuff. And I spoke there. It's for women wanting to like do a reset. And I spoke there, and at the end, sometimes people come up and they're hugging me or crying. I, you know, I'm, I key- I make money as a motivational keynote speaker on body language and leadership and all that sales and stuff. And, and there's like 42 women in line. I'm hugging them all. I spoke for 45 minutes, but I think I hugged people for two hours. The last woman, she had big circle glasses, black gras- glasses, circle, right? Um, short, spiky hair. Sh- she had a cool vibe, I thought. She came up to me and she said, "Hey, um, Janeen, you were my roommate in your last class here, um, last year with Sarah." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I love Sarah." She goes, "Yeah, Sarah loves you too." And I, she goes, "I wanted to stay here and to talk to you because I just don't get it. I don't ... I saw twi- you speak twice today. I don't get what you're talking about, how it's interesting to people. I don't like your personality. I just don't get what my best friend who I've had for years likes about you." Old Janeen would have received that, taken it in, influenced my body language, how I held myself, my limited beliefs. My roots would have been destroyed because thanks to Andrea Quinn, I said to that woman, had you been there, "Good to know. Anything else you wanna share with me?" And I walked and wiped it off. I spoke at an event called Know Your Value. Mika Burzinski puts it together. It's a woman's-based event. Before me was Sarah Jessica Parker. I'm not saying this in a braggy way. Sarah Jessica Parker, um, uh, Martha Stewart, and Bobby Brown, the m- the, um, the makeup artist. They're, they're before me, and then I'm the like fat girl, size 22, in the back of the room.

Mel Robbins 54:43 (laughs)

Janine Driver 54:43 Right? Coming up next.

Mel Robbins 54:45 Gosh, wow.

Janine Driver 54:45 And I have 25 minutes. And I got my stinking thinking coming in. "Boy, they didn't get a standing ovation. They d- You know, people barely applauded. Like, if they don't like them, like they're never gonna like me. No one even knows who I am. I'm not even famous to that level yet." And, and I go, "Janeen-"... pull your shoulders back. The difference between Superman and Clark Kent is a two-inch posture difference. Clark Kent, his shoulders are pulled forward.

Janine Driver 55:07 If you pull y- not, we always say pull your shoulders back. That's actually wrong. You're never gonna pull your shoulders back. You actually look weird, like some type of a T, uh, like a-

Mel Robbins 55:15 I just, I just pulled my shoulders back. The second you said there's a two, two-inch difference, I'm like, "Okay, shoulders back. I'm about to get-"

Janine Driver 55:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 55:20 "... interrogated. Here we go."

Janine Driver 55:21 We've been taught wrong, okay?

Mel Robbins 55:22 All right, what do we do?

Janine Driver 55:23 If you pull your shoulders back, it's actually uncomfortable and you're not gon- you look weird. Instead, I want you to think like, um, like, um, Tony Stark, right? So Tony Stark has a- an- and he has this circle thing on his chest.

Mel Robbins 55:34 Oh, yeah, for Iron Man.

Janine Driver 55:36 Iron Man. He's got this circle orb that keeps him alive on his chest.

Mel Robbins 55:39 Right.

Janine Driver 55:39 I want you to imagine you have that in the, in the center of your chest.

Mel Robbins 55:42 Okay.

Janine Driver 55:42 And a laser beam shoots out of it. If that laser beam, based on your posture, is gonna hit the ground, then you're being Clark Kent. If you wanna be Superman, where the wall meets the ceiling is a confident feeling. So you just wanna take that laser beam and lift your chest to where the wall meets the ceiling.

Mel Robbins 56:02 Okay.

Janine Driver 56:02 Relax your shoulders. Relax those, those... Yeah, much better. And as you're walking, you change how you were perceived. So I'm backstage. I'm in the back of the room. I always come in from the back. And I'm after Martha Stewart and Sarah Jessica Parker, and I have my stinkin' thinkin'. And it can't be negative more than 17 seconds. After 17 seconds, I get my positivity. "I'm amazing. I know cool stuff. I'm gonna change their life. People in here are hurting. At least one woman needs to know this, that she's amazing." And I, and I do that. And I go, "Where the wall meets the ceiling is a confident feeling," and I fire a laser beam right there where that wall meets the ceiling.

Mel Robbins 56:37 (laughs)

Janine Driver 56:37 And I come up from my 25 minutes, and I got the only standing ovation for that conference. This girl that no one knew coming in, size 22, 24, in the back of the room, hitting the stage. Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough talk about me the next day on their show, Morning Joe. I sold a ton of online courses because of it. And all I did was cha- notice self-awareness, notice my stinkin' thinkin', no more than 17 seconds of negativity, say five things about me that I love. I changed my posture, and I've changed, "I know things. I'm not here to teach you to be healthy and strong and fit. I'm here to teach you about body language and the power of influencing people and emotional intelligence and loving ourselves." And then I, I just killed it. I just, I just had a mad love affair with the audience. I made it less about me and more about them. And I'm like, "They need what I know." My mother always said, "Your power's what you give to others." So-

Mel Robbins 57:30 It's true.

Janine Driver 57:30 ... so you-

Mel Robbins 57:31 One of the things that you taught me that I never forgot was this concept called eye blocking.

Janine Driver 57:37 Yes.

Mel Robbins 57:38 And the example that you gave about it being like our own personal passcode, could you explain that to everybody and why this is such an important thing to pay attention to, whether it's in your kids or friendships or in, you know, a relationship with somebody?

Janine Driver 57:53 Okay, yes, and... Um, I just touched my eye when you started talking about eye blocking, so for people-

Mel Robbins 57:59 I didn't even know that. I didn't notice it.

Janine Driver 58:00 ... people who may be watching it, I touched the... You missed it. I touched the corner of my left eye. And, and for people who did notice it, so this is your visual information channel. I want you to go back and watch this, Mel. We have to turn up our, our, our... Or I, my challenge to you is to turn up your visual information channel. So I touched my eye.

Mel Robbins 58:16 Didn't even see it.

Janine Driver 58:16 And I wanna tell you why.

Mel Robbins 58:17 (laughing) Okay.

Janine Driver 58:18 So for me, I'm in Orlando, Florida. I'm speaking today-

Mel Robbins 58:21 Yeah.

Janine Driver 58:22 ... um, for this company. And it's 1:03, and I can share with you till 1:30. And I hit the stage at 2:20, 2:15. I have to get mic'd at 2:00. So as you were asking me the next question, in my brain, I thought, "Ooh, I better s- check the time to make sure I'm on time for this paid event." And so you asked me the new question, when you did, I touched my eye without realizing it. And as soon as I did it, I go, "People are gonna see me touch my eye, and they're gonna be writing to Mel, 'Hey, hey, Miss Body Language Expert touched her own eye. You stressed her out. She got nervous with you, Mel.'" I, I touched my eye not out of nervousness with Mel or her question. But this is the story behind the story, and I wanted to share this with you because be careful of having a little information and saying, "Aha, I got ya" it's, it's about noticing the behavior, and then if you can, ask those powerful questions. There's always that another story that you might not know. And so for me, that's what happened when I touched my eye.

Mel Robbins 59:13 Got it.

Janine Driver 59:14 I love So here's eye blocking.

Mel Robbins 59:17 (laughs)

Janine Driver 59:18 (laughs) Eye blocking... I have an iPhone right here, right? So-

Mel Robbins 59:21 Yeah.

Janine Driver 59:22 ... right now, um, you can see there's a code that's popping up, right? So I have numbers one to, one to nine, and then zero at the bottom. I have to enter my code to get access to my phone.

Mel Robbins 59:31 Yes.

Janine Driver 59:32 Eye blocking is you are putting up the code to inside your brain, that you don't want people to have access to information that's inside your brain. So eye blocking can be I put my hand over my eyes. I could be adjusting my hat. I could be breaking the eye contact. I'm, I'm looking away. So eye blocking is there's something I don't want you to see right now, and I'm putting up my screensaver. And unless you have the code, which I'm gonna give to you again, the MIW formula, maybe I'm wrong here, MIW, it seems to me there's something you're thinking about or something you're concerned about. And so eye blocking happens under high stress and high anxiety. People will block. Uh, sidebar, I just w- weighed in on, um, Gwyneth Paltrow was sued for this like crazy thing that happened way back in, I think, 2016. I was on Court TV about it. And, um, Gwyneth Paltrow, um, gave eye contact very nicely, but pulled her lips in throughout the interview. And to the new person who's listening to my content here with Mel, you might see, if you had seen that lawsuit, you might have seen, "Aha, she's lying. When we don't like what we see or hear, our lips disappear. We see Gwyneth Paltrow's lips disappearing." I went back and looked at interviews with Gwyneth Paltrow with Johnny Depp, on Ellen, and a whole bunch of stuff, ABC, and that's part of her baseline. We always wanna get someone's baseline behavior. So because it's part of Gwyneth Paltrow's baseline, these lips disappearing, I throw it away.... did she do eye blocking? No eye blocking with Gwyneth Paltrow. As a matter of fact, if you want to know if you're a powerful person, which I know you are, Mel, high-status versus low-status. High-status people give eye contact and look at you when they're listening to you. High-status people also look at you when they're talking to you. Low-status people look at you when they're listening, but when they talk, they break eye contact a lot.

Mel Robbins 1:01:30 I do that.

Janine Driver 1:01:31 They ... eye blocking when they're talking to-

Mel Robbins 1:01:33 I do that, Ginny.

Janine Driver 1:01:34 Yeah?

Mel Robbins 1:01:34 I do that. But I think it's my ADHD.

Janine Driver 1:01:37 Yeah, maybe.

Mel Robbins 1:01:37 Like, I notice that I have a really hard time staying in locked eye contact with somebody when I'm talking. I can do it laser beam focus when I'm listening to somebody, but there's something about searching for words or capturing my thought or something. I don't ever close my eyes, but I definitely look up, or I look down, and then I look back.

Janine Driver 1:02:03 Okay. So I'm gonna tell you, and I have ADHD as well, clearly, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, today, ping-ball machine I say. It makes you even more likable, because it is a low-status thing to break eye contact when talking. And so what comes across is when we do that or if someone's doing that, it comes across as you're not a know-it-all. You don't think you're, you're still a work in progress. You don't think you're better than everyone else. As a matter of fact, Gwyneth Paltrow, by doing this, came across as not very likable.

Mel Robbins 1:02:34 Hmm.

Janine Driver 1:02:34 Everyone was saying it, not just me. Like, I went on court TV, I go, "Listen, I believe she's telling the truth, but man, she is not likable in that courtroom." It's almost, like, intimidating to not break the eye contact. So you... But you will be seen as someone as, that has a lower status, like that you're not, like, the alpha dog saying, "Hey, I'm the boss here. This is... You've got to do what I want to do." You're, you're... And that's not who you are. You're that team

Janine Driver 1:02:58 person. You're pulling us along with your journey.

Mel Robbins 1:03:01 What are the top five things, or doesn't matter what the number is, what are the top things that we can practice that help boost our influence and our likability when it comes to body language?

Janine Driver 1:03:16 Okay. Hmm. All right. Confident and likable. Um, we have three power zones, um, our neck dimple... I was gonna back up and show you a little bit. So our neck dimple, it's our throat right here. Our belly button-

Mel Robbins 1:03:31 Our neck dimple, is that the neck dimple like the little dip, the, the dip in there?

Janine Driver 1:03:34 Yeah, the superstitial notch or whatever you-

Mel Robbins 1:03:36 Okay.

Janine Driver 1:03:36 ... whatever you say.

Mel Robbins 1:03:37 Okay.

Janine Driver 1:03:38 Where, you know, your necklace lies right there, so your neck dimple, your, your neck, your belly button, and then your lower extremity. I call it your naughty bits. It's from the Holy Grail. So, uh, your groin. I was on the Today Show, and I was gonna, I was with a guy in the, uh, sitting next to me, Ted from Queer Eye, from the straight guy, the original Ted, the original guy. And he goes, "What are you talking about with Al Roker?" I said, "Your neck dimple, your belly button, and your groin, you keep it open when you're confident and likable." He goes, "Please never say the word groin on a morning show." He said, "Say the holy... Uh, say, um, naughty bits. It's from the Holy Grail." I loved it, Mel, as you might imagine, and I went on there, I loved it, and I said, "Neck dimple, belly button, and groin." Why? But I love naughty bits, because we need to practice. We need to practice, practice, practice. What you're learning today, you gotta practice. Say, "Today, I'm gonna pay attention to belly buttons." So keep our neck dimple, our belly button, and our naughty bits open. Now let's talk about the belly button. I call this naval intelligence. We face our belly button towards people we like, admire, and trust. So if I'm flirting with Brad Pitt, but my belly button is facing George Clooney, everyone thinks I'm flirting with Brad, I wanna hook up with Brad, but really, my belly button wants to go home with good old George. In a meeting, count up how many belly buttons are facing you. If you have 50% of the belly buttons facing someone else-

Mel Robbins 1:04:58 (laughs) That's so funny.

Janine Driver 1:04:59 ... then that person is probably your arch-nemesis, and if I were to give you a tip, emotional intelligence is being smarter, I would make sure I'd have meetings with that person first to get them on my side before going into that other meeting. Because 50% of the ears are listening to that person. On a date, pay attention if the date is over. I'm a talker, right? So a- are you, like, talking past the sale even in a, in an intimate thing like on a date, right? Pay attention, that belly button is angled towards the door to the car. They want out. I call it naval

Janine Driver 1:05:27 intelligence, and it's our first connection to another human being. Our belly button was connected to-

Mel Robbins 1:05:33 Oh, that's true.

Janine Driver 1:05:33 ... the umbilical cord. So the belly button rule, I call it. So keep those three power zones open. Watch your pacifiers, those high-lateral pacifiers. If you're nervous, and it happens, first of all, give yourself a positive trait, right? Plant that seed, that belief. And then if you need to pacify, do toe push-ups inside your shoe. So you're up there, never tell us you're nervous. Never say, "Oh, I'm not good at public speaking, I'm really nervous, I'm not good." Never do that. Because when you're nervous, we see it, and mirror neurons make us nervous and love you even more. As soon as you s- disclaim it and like, "Oh, I'm nervous, I've never done this before," we're like, "Ah, she figured it out." Don't let us in, like, "We're already seeing your body language, we're cheering you on, we love you so much." So instead, right here, do toe push-ups, one and two and three, inside your shoes. We're not seeing them.

Mel Robbins 1:06:18 What does that do?

Janine Driver 1:06:20 It's getting out that stress and anxiety.

Mel Robbins 1:06:23 Wow.

Janine Driver 1:06:23 Instead

Janine Driver 1:06:24 of doing this, instead of b- benching your foot, instead of doing this, just get that stress and anxiety. When you move your body, you move your mind. That's why exercise decreases stress. In law enforcement, we get more in- confessions walking from the jail cell back to the interrogation room or the interrogation room to the police car than we do in the interrogation room. When you move your body, you move your mind. So sometimes we just gotta get people moving. I like to say, "If you're stressed..." Some people are anxious, right? So y- you have anxiety. By the way, if you are the type of person that you have anxiety and you say, "But what if this happens? But what if that happens? We need a plan A, B, C, D, E, F, G."... right? You're kind of gloom and doomy, and everyone lets you know it. Would you like to know what your superpower is?

Mel Robbins 1:07:06 Yes. You can see around corners.

Janine Driver 1:07:09 Their superpower is they can lean back into the past, bring the past mistakes and past wins into the future, into now, and lean into the future and use that future now. They're trend spotters. They set goals, they measure progress, they update plans.

Mel Robbins 1:07:25 Wow.

Janine Driver 1:07:25 These are the people. Every weakness that we have, you're lazy, you don't finish projects. 80% you finish, it's connected to body language. You don't finish projects, like my ex-husband, that was his cute nickname I called him, Lazy. Right?

Mel Robbins 1:07:37 (laughs)

Janine Driver 1:07:37 He would... I call him the 80% man. He'd paint a room and leave it 20% undone. And then I just ...

Mel Robbins 1:07:41 How long were you married?

Janine Driver 1:07:43 20 years I was with him. But we get along great. He's one of my best friends, uh, by the grace of God. 20 long years. It's like SpongeBob, "20 years later." But his... Know what his superpower was?

Mel Robbins 1:07:57 No.

Janine Driver 1:07:57 A lazy person who doesn't finish work? Flexibility. When's the last time you thanked people for their flexibility? We spend every Christmas in Boston, he's from California. Every Halloween, every Easter, every Thanksgiving. When we go to movies, I pick the movie. When we're making dinner, I pick the dinner. I never thanked him for his flexibility, but I made fun of his laziness until I discovered, this is my next TED Talks, you're getting a sneak peek, that all of our decision-making weaknesses have corresponding superpowers. So if you have people that don't finish projects in your life, I bet you they're the most flexible people in your life and you may want to thank them and say, "I didn't realize you have a superpower of flexibility and I wanna honor that and thank you for being so flexible." So-

Mel Robbins 1:08:38 What do you think is the biggest thing that you've learned after decades of studying human beings and this hidden second language that we all have, that's helped you in your everyday life?

Janine Driver 1:08:53 The biggest thing that I've learned? I would say that I believe in comebacks because I've ha- experienced them. And I believe in comebacks, and I believe there's a story behind the story. Susan Smith was the most hated mother in the world at the time when she killed her two young sons because she was dating a guy that didn't want to date a woman that had kids. Later became Casey Anthony. And then now, there's others. But Susan Smith drowned her two kids and, and she was the most hated mother. And what most people don't know is she started being raped and molested by her father at like three and four years old. So it makes me emotional. As a mother, just imagining my kids at the age of three, and I'm not saying what Susan Smith did was justified, but I'm saying there's a story behind a story. And, you know, there's that expression and they, they quoted it in that, uh, what's that soccer movie? Uh-huh. That talk- soccer TV series? Um, Ted Lasso. In one of their episodes, they quoted it, um, "Stop being so judgmental and start being curious, asking questions." And I think that there's a story behind a story. And, um, Susan Smith was raped by her dad her whole childhood. Um, even as a young woman, um, continued to happen. And then in her young teens, would go back to the dad's house and have, you know, sex with her dad. And so, um, I'm always interested in, you know, what's the story behind the story here? Can I find a little bit of compassion or empathy? And, um, I believe in comebacks 'cause I've experienced them, and I'm a work in progress all the time. I'm an eternal student. I was, uh, at this event this morning, I sat in there for five hours 'cause I wanted to learn. I took about five pages of notes just listening to two CEOs who this company, Paylocity, just hit the billion dollar mark for the first time. I wanted to hear every word they had to say. They were asked, what's the biggest thing that they learned on, at, at working together in their life? And I'm taking notes, right? So, I think that, um, I don't know. I believe in comebacks. That's it. You had a comeback. You believe in comebacks?

Mel Robbins 1:11:06 I've had multiple. Of course, I do.

Janine Driver 1:11:08 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:11:08 And I also believe in what you were talking about, which is when you seek to understand something-

Janine Driver 1:11:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:11:14 ... it doesn't condone what somebody did, but it can explain-

Janine Driver 1:11:22 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:11:22 ... why it happened.

Janine Driver 1:11:22 Listen, I was molested as a kid.

Mel Robbins 1:11:24 Me too.

Janine Driver 1:11:24 I could have became a Susan Smith. I happened to have a mother that loves me so much that, that she took this pain and believed me and, and she's just say, "Janeen, I could drop you in a room with 100 friend- 100 strangers and you'd leave with 100 friends." Now, first of all, that's not true. I would leave with 50 friends and 50 people who never wanna see me again 'cause I talk too fast and I'm just a little too much for some people. And I, you know what that is? That's a good to know. And-

Mel Robbins 1:11:50 (laughs) I like... That's kind of my favorite thing that I learned today.

Janine Driver 1:11:53 Yeah, I love a good to know.

Mel Robbins 1:11:54 That it's a good to know. That's good to know.

Janine Driver 1:11:55 Andrea Quinn. Andrea Quinn. Buy her book. I don't know what it's called but buy her book and it's like eight... It's qu- uh, Andrea Quinn, she calls them the eight Quinn-essentials for women to have their dreams come true. Something like that. I may be misquoting it, but good to know saved my life all the time and... Um, I love teaching what I'm teaching. If I can help anyone, like please, I, I love... I... You know, my mother always said, "Your power's what you give to others." So...

Mel Robbins 1:12:18 Can you, uh, can you explain a couple examples of eye-blocking?

Janine Driver 1:12:22 Yeah. So, uh, a guy, a murderer