The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Read Body Language to Get What You Want | The Mel Robbins Podcast
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 3:34
Body language as empowerment: influence, persuasion, and spotting deception
Mel sets up the episode as a practical masterclass in decoding nonverbal cues—grounded in Janine Driver’s experience with federal training and high-stakes cases. The promise: use simple, learnable behaviors to project confidence and read what’s really happening in meetings, dating, parenting, and interviews.
- •Janine’s credentials: decades decoding behavior; FBI/CIA-trained; true-crime case analysis
- •Body language isn’t just about catching lies—it’s about empowerment and influence
- •Preview of practical applications: interviews, dates, family dynamics, kids hiding information
- 3:34 – 6:02
Janine’s origin story: childhood abuse, a kidnapping attempt, and the birth of hyper-awareness
Janine shares how early trauma shaped her ability to read people and threats. She describes an attempted abduction at 16 and how prior experiences helped her detect danger and survive, framing it as a turning point in how she understands human behavior.
- •Molestation at age 6 and the lifelong impact on reading signals
- •Attempted kidnapping at 16 and rapid threat assessment in the moment
- •‘Gift of fear’ intuition as a survival tool
- •Trauma influencing worldview and sensitivity to anomalies
- 6:02 – 10:56
From ATF to media expert: claiming an identity and ‘planting seeds’ with words
Janine explains her path through college, 17 years at ATF, and a leap into media and authorship by boldly ‘claiming’ expertise. She connects personal branding to mindset: what you repeatedly say and plant becomes what grows in your life.
- •ATF career, fascination with deception and human behavior
- •Bold self-positioning and rapid media traction (web presence, TV)
- •Marketing/PR habits: pitching shows, creating visibility
- •Manifesting framed as ‘you grow what you plant’
- •Statement analysis: say what you want (not what you don’t want)
- 10:56 – 11:54
Who reads body language best—and why most professionals miss it
Mel returns to Janine’s earlier ‘three groups’ claim, and Janine explains the categories and how attention is trained. She argues that many roles (teachers, therapists, judges) aren’t reliably good at deception detection because they aren’t trained to spot specific anomalies daily.
- •Three groups: abused kids; daily-trained protectors (e.g., Secret Service); left-brain stroke survivors (right-brain nonverbal dominance)
- •Why judges/teachers/therapists often aren’t good at detecting deception
- •The concept of ‘open loops’ to keep people engaged
- •Body language literacy as a trainable skill
- 11:54 – 19:00
Pacifiers and uncertainty: head/neck touches, eye rubs, and what stress looks like
Janine introduces ‘high-level pacifiers’—self-soothing gestures that often appear when someone is uncertain or stressed, even if their words say yes. She explains why eye touching can signal stress (and even sleepiness), and emphasizes context rather than snap judgments.
- •Head/neck touching while agreeing = uncertainty (‘nonverbal maybe’)
- •Higher pacifier = higher stress/anxiety (face/eyes especially)
- •Eye rubbing linked to dopamine and sleepiness; cold water as a reset
- •Examples from public figures; reading stress without assuming guilt
- •Practical move: notice cue, then gently probe with a question
- 19:00 – 19:56
Start with yourself: the ‘behavioral fingerprint’ and the communication tree
Janine argues that self-awareness is the foundation: your beliefs shape your posture and signals before you even think. Using a tree metaphor, she links roots (beliefs), trunk (body language), branches (thoughts), and leaves (words), emphasizing that body language can precede conscious thought by seconds.
- •Emotional intelligence begins with self-awareness before decoding others
- •‘Behavioral fingerprint’ / ‘movement DNA’ as your baseline style
- •Tree model: beliefs → body language → thoughts → words
- •Body language can show up before conscious thought (a ‘head start’)
- •Lip disappearance/lip roll as emotional control when you dislike something
- 19:56 – 29:46
Interview power move + gendered signaling: asking confidently and avoiding the ‘shrug’
Janine gives a standout interview closer: ask interviewers to define the ideal candidate and how you compare—then contrasts how belief-driven confidence changes how the same question lands. She connects women’s tendency to soften requests (shoulder shrugging) to perceived uncertainty and the mirror-neuron effect.
- •Best end-of-interview question: ‘What is the ideal candidate and how do I measure up?’
- •Same words can read as desperate vs confident depending on belief and delivery
- •Men often state needs directly; women often hedge with shoulder shrugs
- •Shoulder shrug = uncertainty; can also correlate with deception hotspots
- •Mirror neurons: your uncertainty can transmit to the listener
- 29:46 – 37:07
Nonverbal power tools for meetings: steepling, eye focus, and handling bullies
Janine teaches confidence displays that change the room without confrontation. She explains steepling (and intensity differences), how to use attention and gaze to interrupt interrupters, and shares a story of using steepling to neutralize a bullying boss.
- •Steepling (fingertips together) as a confidence/intimidation cue; higher steeple = stronger signal
- •Use in meetings when talked over: lean back, steeple, reduce attention to interrupter
- •Gaze tactics: forehead focus or shifting right-eye dominance to intensify pressure
- •Story: steepling reframed a boss’s attempt to bully; stopped future bullying
- •Works with bosses, spouses, and kids when you need authority
- 37:07 – 42:35
Behavioral fingerprint in action: detail-oriented people and the ‘water glass’ tell
Janine demonstrates how small behaviors reveal cognitive style—especially detail orientation—using how someone picks up and sets down a drink. She translates that insight into practical communication and sales tips: match your message structure to the person’s detail appetite.
- •Detail-oriented people visually track the glass/bottle until it lands; less detail-oriented don’t
- •How this connects to humor/memory for specifics (examples: Fallon, Schumer, Lawrence)
- •Selling/communicating: detail-oriented want more specifics and structure
- •Email strategy: ‘must-know’ summary first, extra details/links below
- •Using small environmental tests (e.g., crooked coaster) to spot detail orientation
- 42:35 – 45:25
Deception hotspots: shoulder/hand/mouth shrugs and the MIW probing formula
Janine clarifies that certain gestures don’t ‘prove’ lying but flag uncertainty worth exploring. She introduces the MIW approach—‘Maybe I’m wrong…’—as a non-accusatory way to open the file cabinet and invite the hidden context to surface.
- •Shrugs (shoulder/hand/mouth) = uncertainty and potential deception ‘hotspot’
- •A cue opens a ‘top secret file’—could be related context, not the direct question
- •MIW formula: ‘Maybe I’m wrong… it seems/feels like you’re uncertain about something’
- •Avoid accusations; use curiosity to locate the real issue
- •Reminder: body signals appear before conscious awareness (the ‘advantage’)
- 45:25 – 52:00
Getting kids (and adults) to tell the truth: priming, embedded commands, and traits
Janine explains a priming script that increases truth-telling likelihood, especially with kids, by using phrasing and a strategic pause. She adds a second layer: assign a trait (truthful, balanced, integrity) to create cognitive dissonance that nudges behavior to match the identity they’ve agreed to.
- •Don’t say ‘don’t lie’—the brain often drops ‘don’t’; use ‘tell me the truth’ framing
- •Script: ‘Whether you tell me the truth or you don’t… [pause] …tell me the truth, I know more than you think’
- •Trait assignment: ‘People say you’re truthful—are you?’ to create cognitive dissonance
- •Hostage negotiator example: identity/trait leverage builds compliance and rapport
- •Parenting reframes: focus on desired traits (balance) instead of labeling addiction
- 52:00 – 57:31
Confidence when you don’t feel it: ‘good to knows,’ Superman posture, and nervous-energy hacks
Janine introduces ‘good to knows’ as a reset tool for criticism and setbacks, and shares how she interrupts negative momentum (the 17-second rule). She teaches a posture visualization (chest ‘laser’ to where wall meets ceiling) and a discreet stress-release hack (toe push-ups) to look composed even when anxious.
- •‘Good to know’ as a boundary/reset response to criticism
- •Limit negative spirals: stop after ~17 seconds; replace with positives
- •Posture hack: Superman vs Clark Kent is a small chest/shoulder shift; aim chest ‘laser’ upward
- •Toe push-ups inside shoes to discharge nervous energy without visible fidgeting
- •Reframing weaknesses as superpowers (anxiety as trend-spotting; ‘lazy’ as flexibility)
- 57:31 – 1:03:01
Eye blocking, baselines, and the danger of ‘aha’ conclusions
Mel brings up eye blocking, and Janine explains it as a mental ‘passcode’—a barrier when someone doesn’t want access to what they’re thinking. She emphasizes baseline behavior (what’s normal for that person) and demonstrates how closed-eye talking feels unnatural, illustrating why prolonged eye blocking stands out in high-stakes interviews.
- •Eye blocking = screensaver/passcode behavior (hand over eyes, breaking contact, eyes closed)
- •Context matters: a cue may reflect logistics/stress, not deception (Janine’s own eye touch)
- •Baseline is essential (example: Gwyneth Paltrow lip behavior across interviews)
- •High-status vs low-status eye contact patterns while talking/listening
- •True-crime examples: prolonged eye blocking in suspects/interviews
- 1:03:01 – 1:28:02
Dating and interview ‘pick me’ signals: bookend endings, sit 30% off-center, and belly-button truth
Janine closes with practical positioning and rapport techniques for dates and interviews. She highlights the recency effect (ending matters), recommends bookending greetings (handshake/hug), and explains ‘navel intelligence’—belly-button orientation as a strong indicator of trust, attention, and whether someone wants to leave.
- •Recency effect: end the way you started (handshake/hug) to ‘bookend’ rapport
- •Seating: avoid directly opposite (confrontation); sit ~30% off-center to lower stress
- •‘Three power zones’ to keep open: neck dimple, belly button, and groin (‘naughty bits’)
- •Navel intelligence: belly button points toward who you like/trust; points to exits when done
- •Mel’s wrap-up: steepling, ‘good to know,’ and ‘I might be wrong…’ as core takeaways
