If You Got Your Heart Broken, You Need To Hear This! | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Mel Robbins 0:00 (ticking sound) Pull up a seat and listen in as I give some advice and coaching to a woman named Katrina, who wrote in because in the wake of a breakup, she has a very big decision to make. Isn't it true, the decision that you know is right, the one that deep down in your heart you know is the best and truest decision for you, it's also the one that scares the hell out of you? This coaching session is going to give me the opportunity to teach you two just critical truths about life. Number one... (instrumental music plays) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast. Okay, I'm really looking forward to the conversation today. If you're brand new to The Mel Robbins Podcast, I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times best-selling author, I am also one of the world's leading experts on habits and motivation and behavior change. And I invite you today to pull up a seat and listen in as I give some advice and coaching to a woman named Katrina, who wrote in because in the wake of a breakup, she has a very big decision to make. You're gonna love her, by the way. She's smart and she is a go-getter, but she's really stuck right now. She's got a big decision to make, and she feels overwhelmed by the decision. And this coaching session is going to give me the opportunity to teach you two just critical truths about life. So the two critical truths that you have to accept about life is, number one, you have to know the difference between the right decision and being afraid of the right decision. And the second truth about life is that how you feel about somebody is very different than how they make you feel. And how they make you feel is where you have to put all the weight when you're making really hard decisions. And by the very end of this coaching session with Katrina, you are going to learn an absolutely incredible tool. This is a tool that will help you make courageous decisions. Because isn't it true that so often, the decision that you know is right, the one that deep down in your heart you know is the best and truest decision for you, it's also the one that scares the hell out of you? All right. Do we have Katrina here? Oh, great. Hi, Katrina.

Katrina 2:41 Hi, Mel. How are you doing?

Mel Robbins 2:43 Hi. I'm good. Why don't you go ahead and start by reading, uh, I think they're gonna have you read your question and then we can kind of talk through it.

Katrina 2:49 Yes, absolutely. All right. Hi, Mel. My name is Katrina. Thank you for all your podcasts. They have saved me in the past year. Let me explain. In July 2022, just days before my 25th birthday and last year of law school, my boyfriend of five years dumped me. To say that this was out of nowhere would be an understatement, but looking back, I am sure there were signs that the end was coming. My future crumbled right before my eyes. I was numb for the first three to four months. I've done a lot of work since then.

Katrina 3:23 I've fostered many relationships and started a bunch of new hobbies, each requiring patience and confidence, two skills I really needed to work on. I need your help on what to do next. The state I live in has been my home all my life, and as far as I know, it's where my ex still resides. I'm unsure if it's the breakup, the last year of law school ending, or the fact that I truly have nothing tying me down here anymore, but this place no longer feels warm to me. Most of my friends are engaged and beginning to start their lives in a chapter I can no longer relate to. I'm thinking of moving to a state that has everything I love. However, a part of me knows that if I leave, the chances of me getting back together with my ex becomes slimmer. A brilliant and well-experienced woman once said, "One decision can change the trajectory of your life forever." So I hope you can help me figure out what decision to make, or at least ways to make this grueling decision. Thanks, Mel.

Mel Robbins 4:25 Okay. So, I think that this is a very short coaching session.

Katrina 4:31 (laughs) Okay.

Mel Robbins 4:33 Because I think you know the decision.

Katrina 4:35 Uh, yeah, I think I do too.

Mel Robbins 4:39 So, when you just kind of went, "Uh, yeah, I think I do too," I want to tell you something about decisions. It's interesting because, especially since you've just graduated from law school, and you've been using that big, amazing, powerful brain of yours, uh, to get through law school, and you now think like a lawyer, you're very analytical. But the kind of decisions that change your life are not made upstairs in that lawyer analytical brain.

Mel Robbins 5:20 Do you know where in your body you can feel what the decision is?

Katrina 5:26 Yeah, I think it's my heart. I think, um... I mean, there's definitely a part of me. I left out a few things. There... His parents have a love story that they ended up back together after they broke up and after they had separate lives. So I think subconsciously I'm hoping that that's the case, but I know my time here, I live in Indianapolis, I, I think my time here has come to an end just because I, I don't want to be living in a place where I'm worried I'm gonna bump into him or worried I'd see him on a date with someone else. Like, that's not a life I want to live and that's not something I want to have in the back of my mind everywhere I go.

Mel Robbins 6:13 Yeah. Um, I think there's a bigger reason.... that has nothing to do with him. So, I want you to tell me why you want to move. I mean, fuck him for a minute. Like, what-

Katrina 6:31 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 6:31 Why do you want to go somewhere else?

Katrina 6:35 Yeah. Um, there are many reasons. Uh, I've lived in Indiana my entire life, and-

Mel Robbins 6:41 Mm-hmm.

Katrina 6:41 ... and I think this breakup has shown me, if it's shown me, I mean, it's shown me so many things, but one thing is that you have one life to live.

Mel Robbins 6:49 (exhales)

Katrina 6:49 And I just don't think I'm supposed to live here for my entire life. And it's, it's something that's deep in me, and it was deep in me before we broke up. I thought about moving. I wanted to move. And I, so it's just, it's only accelerated it. But I have parent guilt because they both, they live here, and I think that they'll, they, they don't intend on moving anywhere. But maybe if I can show them that it's possible, you can do it, you can start over somewhere new, that maybe it'll give them the confidence to do so. So I, I agree with you. I, I, there is, there are reasons that are more personal than just him. And that, and that I know from my own self-growth, it's a necessary next step.

Mel Robbins 7:35 Yeah. I think you want to make the decision not only from your heart, and I'll coach you through how to make the decision and how to read the energy of your heart.

Katrina 7:44 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 7:45 But you can make this decision either because you want to move away from something or because you feel called to something. Do those two places feel different to you?

Katrina 8:06 I think it's, it's, well, 60% being called somewhere else, 40% of me feeling that I need to move away, because it's... I mean, we, we spent five years here. We were very active people everywhere, and I, I like to go on hikes. And now every time I go on hikes, I think about where we've been, and he's not that big of a city to escape from all the memories.

Mel Robbins 8:30 Mm-hmm.

Katrina 8:31 And it's just, it's been really hard to, to think that I can create new memories with someone else or myself without those things coming in the foreground.

Mel Robbins 8:43 Yep. It's possible, for sure.

Katrina 8:46 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 8:46 Um, but it's easier if you're feeling called. And so you said a couple of things to me. One is, "I felt called deep down, even before we broke up."

Katrina 8:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 8:58 "And that this is something that I've wanted to do."

Katrina 9:01 Yes.

Mel Robbins 9:01 And I will tell you, you will always regret not doing it. And the other thing I'm going to tell you is, you can always come back.

Katrina 9:10 Yeah. That's, yeah, that's been my main thing, is that I know I can always come back. I've made enough of a network here, and I know there are plenty of people in my corner that are here that would, I could rely on it, God forbid something was to go awry in the state that I have, I have chosen. So I, I, yeah, I do want to bet on myself. It's just-

Mel Robbins 9:35 Yes.

Katrina 9:35 ... that, like me, that feels a little guilty towards my parents and...

Mel Robbins 9:39 Well, hold on a second. Your parents are grown-ass adults.

Katrina 9:43 Yes, they are. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 9:44 And they can move.

Katrina 9:46 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 9:47 They can get on an airplane.

Katrina 9:48 Yes.

Mel Robbins 9:49 They can FaceTime you. They want you

Mel Robbins 9:53 to be happy. They want you to pursue your dreams. There is nothing I would hate more than to have my kids tell me that they gave up on something they wanted to do because they felt guilty about me.

Katrina 10:08 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 10:09 After all the shit I've done to support them, they're now going to saddle their coward-ass chicken-shit decisions on me?

Katrina 10:19 Yeah. No, that resonates deeply. I know you're right. I know. I don't, I don't know what part of my smil- the inner child of me that somewhat believes that I can't go somewhere without disappointing them. But I know that you're right, that deep down, that they want the best for me, they want me to be happy, and that that will

Mel Robbins 10:39 And here's what, here's what you can do. You can actually go to your parents and say: I need to do this for myself, and the only thing holding me back is f- my fear about you guys being upset with me. So, can I ask for your support in doing something that I, I desperately need to do for my own growth? And I promise, I can always come back.

Katrina 11:07 Yeah. Yeah, I think I need that reassurance, for sure.

Mel Robbins 11:11 Well, you can ask for it. Whether they give it to you or not is a whole nother thing. I don't know your parents. I don't know if they're going to be emotionally immature about it. But I suspect they've seen you suffer.

Katrina 11:21 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:21 And they've seen you sad. And they want you to be happy. And if you tell them, "This is what you think you need, to take this risk, to do this thing," then you need to do it. Living with regret is the worst thing in the world. And so, you know, I- I'm, I'm focusing us here because I need you to accept that he broke up with you. And you haven't.

Katrina 11:54 Yeah. Feel like I haven't had time to-

Mel Robbins 11:58 That's bullshit.

Katrina 11:59 (laughs) I know.

Mel Robbins 12:01 'Cause all you do is think about this.

Katrina 12:05 Every... It's gotten a lot better. I mean, I've been able to... I told myself I'd be on a hiatus until I take the bar in July, from men, like talking to men. And I've gotten over that.

Mel Robbins 12:16 Mm-hmm.

Katrina 12:16 I've allowed myself-

Mel Robbins 12:17 Okay.

Katrina 12:17 ... to live and like freely talk to adult males who I find interesting or attractive, and I've been using the five second rule. And it's worked wonders, and it's given me bountiful connections. It's just...I don't know, there is a part of me that is hanging on to this little piece of hope that-

Mel Robbins 12:37 Hmm.

Katrina 12:37 ... because he was the person that... I mean, everything I wanted in a person (laughs) was that... Was him, except the fact that he didn't want me, so. Maybe that should be enough.

Mel Robbins 12:47 Well, that's, that's the single biggest-

Katrina 12:49 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:50 ... thing that you need.

Katrina 12:51 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:52 Why would you want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with you?

Katrina 12:56 Yeah, you don't.

Mel Robbins 12:58 But you do, because you think if you can win him back, it means something.

Katrina 13:06 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:07 What does it mean if he comes back?

Katrina 13:12 That he regret... He s- he regrets the decision that he rudely messed things up.

Mel Robbins 13:18 What does it mean about you?

Katrina 13:20 Oh.

Mel Robbins 13:20 What does it mean about you?

Katrina 13:25 Probably not anything commendable. I mean, you take in someone that second guessed your worth, and their... and their perception of you as what you meant to them in, in your life, and how I wasn't enough. I mean-

Mel Robbins 13:46 See, there's a part of your value and worth that you have handed to him.

Katrina 13:53 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:58 And him coming back and wanting to be with you is what you think is going to give you that piece of self-worth back. That's why you're holding onto it, because you think there's something wrong with you or missing from you, or deficient, and only he can give it back to you.

Katrina 14:29 Yeah, we haven't even spoken since, so... (laughs)

Mel Robbins 14:32 Good.

Katrina 14:32 Since July. (laughs) We... I haven't seen him.

Mel Robbins 14:35 Good.

Katrina 14:35 It's been...

Mel Robbins 14:36 There's nothing to say.

Katrina 14:37 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 14:37 He said everything when he broke up with you without warning.

Katrina 14:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 14:43 And I also think you need to look back at the relationship, if you're going to, with a much more critical eye, because there were signs. There are always signs.

Katrina 14:52 Yeah, there were absolutely signs, especially-

Mel Robbins 14:55 What were the signs?

Katrina 14:56 Well, uh, one, uh, two years into our relationship, he cheated on me.

Mel Robbins 15:03 Okay, there's a sign.

Katrina 15:04 That's a sign. (laughs) Uh, two, about three weeks before he broke up with me, um, he's Mormon, and I'm, I'm just... I'm Christian of general.

Mel Robbins 15:19 Uh-huh.

Katrina 15:20 And, um, he had some Mormon people over, and it was on a... We got in a big fight, essentially, and I saw him look at me differently in that time.

Mel Robbins 15:35 Mm-hmm.

Katrina 15:35 And then on our 4th of July weekend, when he broke up with me, he was very distant. Also, all of our mutual friends broke up with their girlfriends two weeks prior, so every guy in our group that I also-

Mel Robbins 15:49 Are they all Mormon?

Katrina 15:50 No, no, they're not.

Mel Robbins 15:51 Okay.

Katrina 15:53 They're not, but they all broke up with their girlfriends two weeks prior, and then I was next. I was the next target to be hit, um, yeah.

Mel Robbins 16:03 Or a captive to be released.

Katrina 16:07 Yeah, that too. Yeah. Yeah, he was definitely-

Mel Robbins 16:13 You need to change your story. You need to change your story. He was not everything you thought you wanted. He was not. He was somebody that cheated on you that you forgave, who then started to ice you out because he felt the pressure from, uh, LDS leaders, which he's allowed to do.

Katrina 16:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 16:32 And he did it in a really chicken shit, mean, disrespectful way. Had he sat down with you and explained from his heart the pressure he feels, how much he cares about you, how much this time has meant to you, but he just can't get past the religion, blah-bi-dee-blah. If he had done that, we wouldn't be here.

Katrina 16:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 16:55 But see, why you feel pissed, and I'd like you to get into the anger instead of the sappy doopy opa-doopie-day, oh, should I move, should I not? Fuck him.

Katrina 17:06 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 17:08 You got to get into that mode of, "I was fucking disrespected by this son of a bitch. How fucking dare he? What a chicken shit, piece of shit, traumatized... What the... I- I was dating a boy."

Katrina 17:23 Yeah. No, absolutely, 100%. Not emotionally intelligent, uh, definitely-

Mel Robbins 17:29 Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Come on, what else?

Katrina 17:33 Oh, man, it's so hard. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 17:35 No, it ain't. It's only hard because you've been telling yourself a different story.

Katrina 17:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 17:40 And the story that you need to tell yourself is this one, "When it's not love, it's a lesson, and the lesson that he taught me is I want an actual man. I want somebody who talks about his feelings. I want somebody who is upfront with me when something's not working. I want somebody

Mel Robbins 17:57 who, uh, respects me, to have the hard... Enough to have the hard conversations."

Katrina 18:03 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:03 "And I also learned that I am a fucking lawyer, and if I can get my ass through law school, I am an adult who wants an adult relationship with an equal, and I was dating a child, and I was making excuses for him, and I'm not fucking doing that again."

Katrina 18:23 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:23 How about that story?

Katrina 18:25 I like that story, that story-

Mel Robbins 18:26 I say it with love. (laughs)

Katrina 18:28 (laughs) That story I, I think I'm gonna keep in my back pocket. Yeah. No, I think-

Mel Robbins 18:32 Now-

Katrina 18:32 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:33 Here's one other thing I want to say to you. We got to come up with your plan B when you bump into him, because I have a feeling that literally within the next 48 hours, you are going to bump into him.

Katrina 18:44 I do too. I know, I've had this feeling for a while.

Mel Robbins 18:48 Okay, so what are you going to do?

Katrina 18:51 I don't know. Uh, I've just thought about saying hi and, I mean, I'm in a much better head space now. Like I, I, I... This is, uh... The breakup has been one of the biggest blessings, truly. Like, it has been... I, the amount of relationships that I've fostered and the amount of people that I've met since then that I never would have met, and there are stories I never would have heard, like it, it's given me a new light. It's given me a new reason to, to live and a new pursuit. I've learned so much about myself. I've, I've learned how loyal I am as a friend and how many people I have in my corner. It's just... So I, I want to exert that kind of energy when I see him-

Mel Robbins 19:39 Okay, great.

Katrina 19:39 ... if I was to. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:40 Great. Okay. Um-

Katrina 19:42 Like I'm n- If he asked me how I'm doing, I want to say, "I'm, I'm doing great," because I am.

Mel Robbins 19:47 Okay, great. But there's still that little piece.

Katrina 19:50 Yes. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 19:53 And I want to turn that piece into something powerful for you, and it's the truth. And the reason why you can't let this go is because of how he handled it.

Katrina 20:11 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:12 Because you are a person of principle, and you deserved to be treated differently. This is not about the breakup. This is not about what happened. It's about the how.

Katrina 20:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:25 And so, the way that we're gonna do this, 'cause we're gonna role play, is I want you to put on your lawyer hat.

Katrina 20:32 Okay.

Mel Robbins 20:33 Okay?

Katrina 20:34 Okay.

Mel Robbins 20:34 And I want you to say... Like, I want... You're just gonna try this on like you and I are shopping together, because having this rehearsed will help you not get triggered. Because when you see the person, it

Mel Robbins 20:48 will be a little bit like, "Oh, my god." So expect a little bit of the wave, like, "Oh, shit, shit, shit." And then you're gonna take a deep breath, and you're gonna walk right up to him. Do not look away. Do not worry if he's with somebody even better.

Katrina 21:03 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 21:03 You're gonna walk right up and you're gonna say, "Hey, I had a feeling I was gonna bump into you. It's, it's actually really great to see you because I'm moving, something I've always wanted to do, and I wanted to thank you. Thank you for ending it, because I probably would be making different decisions if I were still putting you first. But I do want to tell you, the way you handled it was really awful, and I deserve better, and now I feel better that I told you."

Katrina 21:38 Yeah, that's, that's tough. That's how you... I don't know how-

Mel Robbins 21:43 All right. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Katrina 21:45 Okay.

Mel Robbins 21:45 I, I'm, I'm him. I'm like walking and I see you and I'm like... (gasps)

Katrina 21:50 Okay. Hey, Nick.

Mel Robbins 21:54 Hi.

Katrina 21:55 It's great to see you. I had a feeling-

Mel Robbins 21:57 Yeah, it's good to see you.

Katrina 21:58 ... I was gonna bump into you recently. I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen you. And-

Mel Robbins 22:04 Yeah, you look great. You look really great. How you doing?

Katrina 22:06 Thanks. Thank you. I appreciate it. I just wanted to let you know I'm actually... I'm moving soon, and I truly wanted to thank you for ev- for allowing me and giving me this time to...

Mel Robbins 22:20 Nope.

Katrina 22:21 No?

Mel Robbins 22:21 Nah. Okay, we're gonna start over. No. I want to thank you for ending it.

Katrina 22:26 For ending it, okay.

Mel Robbins 22:27 'Cause I wouldn't have.

Katrina 22:29 Yeah, I would not have.

Mel Robbins 22:29 And I needed you, and, and it needed to end.

Katrina 22:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 22:33 And I'm happy it ended, but I do have to tell you, the way you handled it, not cool. Not cool at all. I deserve better, and I hope you treat women better in the future. See you later. (laughs) All right, here we go again. I'm Nick.

Katrina 22:55 All right, rock and roll.

Mel Robbins 22:57 Okay, here we go.

Katrina 22:59 Hey, Nick.

Mel Robbins 23:00 Oh, hi. Hey.

Katrina 23:02 How's it going?

Mel Robbins 23:04 Uh, everything's great. Everything's really great.

Katrina 23:07 I, I had a feeling I'd bump into you. That's, that's really odd, but I just wanted to let you know, um, I wanted to thank you actually for, for ending what we had.

Mel Robbins 23:18 Really?

Katrina 23:19 I, yes, I, uh, um, recently made the decision to move and-

Mel Robbins 23:24 Wow.

Katrina 23:24 ... I would not have made this decision had we stayed together, and it's... After great reflection, it's been truly the biggest blessing. The way in which it was done was not acceptable, and I hope that you can do better for the women that are in your life and your future. (clapping) Bye-bye. Have a good life.

Mel Robbins 23:47 Case dem- dismissed, man. He's convicted. You're the winner. That was incredible. How do you feel?

Katrina 23:54 It feels empowering, and it feels honest.

Mel Robbins 24:00 Yeah. Yeah, that, that last word is it, because like a lot of that gotcha, and I'm just gonna say that thing where I pretend to look, dah, dah, dah, that doesn't work. But you're being honest, because I, I really feel that it's the justice piece of this that hooked you.

Katrina 24:22 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 24:22 That that's what has kept you attached to this, that it wasn't right. And when you distinguish the relationship ending, the what from the how it ended, it gives you your power back to go, "Wait a minute. I was mistreated here."I need to say something. This fucking coward did this and then slinked off into the sunset? I don't think so.

Katrina 24:43 Right. Right.

Mel Robbins 24:44 And I also love that you can see the difference between making a decision because you're weak and you don't want to bump into this loser on a hiking trail. Give me a fucking break.

Katrina 24:55 Yeah, I know. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 24:56 He should be, he should be where, or he's probably not hiking anywhere 'cause he's scared to bump into you.

Katrina 25:00 Possibly. Definitely.

Mel Robbins 25:02 Definitely.

Katrina 25:02 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 25:03 Definitely. Even if he has somebody new, he's going to be scared to bump into you, because he also knows he was a coward and he disrespected you the way he did this. And so, you know that you are now making a decision to move toward your power and toward your growth, and you also know that you can always come back. You can always move home. Like, that's there for you forever. But I think you are going to find something in this move that you didn't even know you were seeking, and I am so excited for you. And I want to leave you with a tool. So you already located it in your heart, but the way that you, um, make a decision in

Mel Robbins 25:51 the future that, you know, is kind of one of these big weighty ones is you just kind of close your eyes, and I want you to think about the two options: Do I stay in Indianapolis, or do I move to this new place that I've always wanted to live? The decision that aligns and is true for you is the one that is gonna feel more expansive, like that something inside you opens up. It doesn't mean it's an easy decision, doesn't mean that there aren't things you're concerned about, but that it's gonna create growth, that there's something exciting, even if it's scary, about that decision, that there's some expansive energy to it. And that's how you can feel in your heart and in your gut that that is a decision that's aligned with who you are and where you're meant to go. If you are making a decision and you feel yourself shrink a little-

Katrina 26:52 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:52 ... you feel the energy go down-

Katrina 26:54 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:55 ... you feel kind of instead of the expansion, like this kind of contraction of energy, that's a no. It's a no. And that's why I opened up our conversation by saying, "I think this is gonna be a short conversation," because you already know. And one other piece of advice I'm gonna give you is this: When making decisions in life, always use your heart to know what the truth is for you, and that's why I knew immediately, "Oh, she knows. She's moving. This is, like, not even a question. She's already knows what." You'll use your brain, and you've got this beautiful, analytical lawyer brain that's gonna help you figure out that, "Okay, when am I doing it? How's it gonna happen?" Like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, okay? Awesome.

Katrina 27:49 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:49 I'm so proud of you. I wish I could give you a big fucking hug, or we could go out and have drinks or whatever.

Katrina 27:52 I know. Now, I wish this was in person. I would gi- give you the biggest hug too. I just... I'm, I'm so... This feels honestly so surreal. I have been meaning to email you for approximately six months, and it wasn't until I finished the Audible book of The 5 Second Rule this weekend-

Mel Robbins 28:09 Yeah.

Katrina 28:10 ... and then I said, "Five, four, three, two, one," and I fucking sent it, so.

Mel Robbins 28:13 Boom. See? You did it when you were ready.

Katrina 28:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 28:16 And, uh, I'm really proud of you. You're going to do really big things in life. I know it. I know it. And you are going to be shocked about the relationships that are coming in the future, because you are stepping into your power. So you're in a totally different place, which means the person that steps into your life, friends or romantic whatever, are gonna amplify you.

Katrina 28:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 28:40 Which is incredible. I'm really proud of you. Go get 'em.

Katrina 28:43 Thank you so much. I, I-

Mel Robbins 28:45 You're welcome, Darlin'.

Katrina 28:45 I'm so appreciative for your time.

Mel Robbins 28:47 And this is also gonna help so many people, so I appreciate your honesty.

Katrina 28:51 Yeah, absolutely. I, I... That's all I want to do, is I truly want to help anyone who's in my s- in my space and is going through what I'm going through.

Mel Robbins 29:00 (claps) Whoo! I love it. Go get 'em.

Katrina 29:03 Thank you so much, Mel. I can't wait to run into you.

Mel Robbins 29:04 You're welcome. You're the best. I can't wait to run into you too. You better run up to me and give me a big old hug, woman.

Katrina 29:10 I will, absolutely.

Mel Robbins 29:12 Hey, it's Mel, and if you've ever thought, "Gosh, I just wish I could get Mel to coach me," well, now you can. Once a year, I offer a live coaching program called Launch, and it is open for registration right now. If you're interested, I invite you, no, I urge you to check it out. Last year it sold out. It has a 7,000-person wait list, but being a fan of the podcast, I know you're not just the listening type, you're the doing type. You're gonna love this. It's 42 lectures. That's the curriculum. It's all new. It is a private, premium, app-driven community. I am the professor. It lasts for six months. There are 11 live coaching calls. You're going to love this. The information is in the link above, and I would love, love, love to coach you. I'd love to empower you to launch a new chapter in your personal or professional life. If you've ever wanted me to coach you, this is your chance. Do not wait. Five, four, three, two, one, let's go. I just love her. Didn't you get so much out of that? Isn't she the kind of person that you're rooting for? And I cannot wait to get an update, and believe me, when I get one, I will let you know how she's doing. But you know who else I'm rooting for? I'm rooting for you. And there was a tremendous amount of takeaway and truths about life and lessons about life that were jammed into that 20-minute coaching session, and so I want to make sure that you leave here not just being inspired by, uh, what Katrina got out of this, but I wanna make sure that you leave with the 10-Very clear takeaways from that coaching conversation, so let's unpack them one by one. So the first truth, the lesson that I want you to remember from this episode, is that in life, you always want to be running toward

Mel Robbins 31:14 something, not away from it, okay? And it's way more powerful when you think about changes that you're making as moving toward something new, toward something powerful, because then you're taking control. Then you are owning the narrative, and you are going to feel more empowered. And sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference. For example, when I was asking Katrina about this, "Are you running toward a new life, or are you running away from the boyfriend?" And she was really honest. Remember, she said this?

Katrina 31:50 I think it's, it's, well, 60% being called somewhere else, 40% of me feeling that I need to move away.

Mel Robbins 32:02 60%, "I'm called somewhere else. I'm moving toward something that is powerful," and 40%, she was really honest, that, "I got to move away from this guy." So, in the moment of a big change, make sure the narrative you're telling yourself and the inspiration for the change is framed as you moving towards something powerful, okay? Now, takeaway number two. Let's talk about closure. Because as long as your hand is still on the doorknob, you have not fully closed the door.

Mel Robbins 32:34 And whether you're closing a door on a relationship or a chapter in your life, you have got to let go at some point. And one of the things I want to point out is that it was very clear at the beginning of the conversation that Katrina had not closed that chapter, because she was still holding onto the handle.

Katrina 32:52 A part of me knows that if I leave, the chances of me getting back together with my ex becomes slimmer.

Mel Robbins 32:58 To truly close the door, or to close this chapter, you have to let go. And what does that mean? It means that you have got to stop holding on to whatever you're holding on to. Whether it's this slim sliver of hope that things could be different, whether it's beating yourself up, whether it's rumination, you have to let go. And you also need to move away from that door and start walking toward something

Mel Robbins 33:30 new. That is what it means to truly have closure. Takeaway number three. If you're gonna hold yourself back

Mel Robbins 33:39 and play a really small game in life, you give up the right to blame other people for that. Let me unpack this for you. Remember when Katrina said this about her parents?

Katrina 33:48 I do want to bet on myself. It's just that part of me that feels a little guilty towards my parents, and...

Mel Robbins 33:55 And I was like, "Woo, wait a minute. You don't get to bet on yourself and then be like, 'But my parents, I feel guilty.'" That is so wrong. If you're going to hold yourself back, own it. "I'm too scared to move." Do not saddle your parents or your friends or anybody else with this guilt stuff. It's complete baloney, all right? So be very clear when you're holding yourself back that you're the one doing it to yourself. The fourth takeaway, don't even get me started on this, 'cause it makes me so frustrated. How many

Mel Robbins 34:27 times have you been afraid to disappoint somebody? "Oh, I'd like to do this, but what if I'm going to disappoint them?" 99% of the time, you haven't even fricking asked them. So stop saying you're afraid to disappoint someone. You don't get to say that. Be an adult. Just ask them. Tell them what you want to do, and then you'll find out if there's a reason to be afraid. But I guarantee you, if you explain to somebody what you want to do and why, you're going to get the support that you need. You know, I'll give you an example. Uh, my parents, I hate that I live so far away from them. Uh, they can't stand that I moved from the Midwest and I live out in the East, but you know what? They're still my biggest supporters. People can be two things at once. They can be disappointed that you don't live closer, and they can still support you in pursuing your dreams. So stop saying that you're afraid of disappointing people. Go have the conversation, 'cause I think you're going to be shocked. Here's the fifth takeaway. If someone doesn't want you anymore, you shouldn't want them. The second they break up with you, the second they're not in love with you anymore, the second they treat you as though they don't want you, take that as the truth and flip the switch and tell yourself, "You deserve better." I'm sure you remember this moment when Katrina confessed this.

Katrina 35:53 Everything I wanted in a person was that... (laughs) was him, except the fact that he didn't want me, so.

Mel Robbins 36:00 I almost fell out of my chair when she said that. That's not your person. That's your insecurity and your trauma from childhood playing out. That's your attachment issues. (laughs) See, one of the reasons why we cling to people that don't want us is that we play this crazy game that if we could only

Mel Robbins 36:20 convince them to like us again, it proves that somehow we're worthy, okay? The only person that you need to be worthy of is yourself, and so that means you should not want to be with somebody who does not want to be with you, period. Another really big takeaway here, there are always signs. Your intuition is always right. Your issue is that you're not listening to it. So the next time a chapter or a job or a relationship is over, please stop romancing what it was and please look back with an astute.... honest, critical eye, and look for the signs, because you need to claim those signs, and you need to own the fact that you ignored them. And that's a major mistake that I see so many of you making, that you're embarrassed. "Oh, I was such an idiot. I, I, there were signs that they were cheating. Oh, I was such an idiot. He's been treating me or she's been treating me like garbage for a year. There were signs." But you don't want to tell anybody, because you think it makes you look weak. It's actually the opposite. If you can claim all the signs that you saw and chose to ignore, you know what it does? It strengthens your intuition, because you're honoring the fact that it's true. And if you make that part of the narrative, it will be more likely that you will see any signs in the future, and that you will trust it, because you've now owned the mistake that you made in the past. And that brings me to takeaway number seven. If it's not love, it is a lesson,

Mel Robbins 37:57 full stop. You see, not everybody is meant to be in your life for your lifetime. But the things that they teach you and the experiences that you have with them will stay with you for a lifetime. And so, one other thing I want you to remember is that when something ends, it ends because it was supposed to end, okay? There's something better coming. And so, when you feel ready, change your story from heartache and heartbreak and insecurity and drama, to the lesson that you learned, because remember, if it's not love, it's a lesson. Another big takeaway here was the coaching that I gave her about rehearsing what you're going to say if there's somebody in your life that you're worried about bumping into. There used to be somebody like that

Mel Robbins 38:48 for me, and I think everybody has someone in the back of their mind that they're like, "Oh, my God. Dear God, please do not let me bump into them. Please do not let me see them." And for me, it used to be my college roommate. We had a huge falling out after we graduated, partially, I'd say, mostly my doing. We went back and forth with letters. This would have been 33 years ago. And I think she's complete, but I certainly was not complete. And I have thought a lot about what I would do if I bumped into her, and I used to be really scared of it, until I did this. You just need to figure out how you're going to handle the situation. That way, you're not caught off guard. You've prepared for it. It's something researchers call AB planning. Plan A is, "I'm not going to see the person. I'm not (laughs) going to bump into the person," right? Well, what do you do if you do? You have plan B in your back pocket, because you've rehearsed it, you've thought about it, you know exactly how you're going to react, because you've already rehearsed it. And that means it removes the concern from the back of your subconscious mind, and it also empowers you because you've taken control, and you now aren't going to have an awkward moment, because you will know what you're going to do. Now, number nine. We're getting near the end here. I told

Mel Robbins 40:03 you there was a lot packed into that coaching session. You don't need another person in order to get complete. I don't need to bump into my friend to feel complete. I was the villain in our friendship ending, and so I accept that. I will welcome her with a huge hug if I ever see her. I don't even know if I would be greeted that way, but that is how I am going to respond. I have learned from my behavior. I have forgiven myself, and so I've moved on. But another person's behavior is all you need. You see, when the person ended it, when they lied to you, when they did what they end, that's all the data point that you need in order to be complete. And the other thing that you need to do is claim and identify the signs that you ignored, or in my case, own and take responsibility for the toxic behavior that you engaged in, and then, the best form of apology is honestly changing yourself for the better. A change in behavior is the best apology that you could give yourself and the best apology you could give anybody else. And finally, in life, there will be many things that you do that you regret. I just named a bunch. You know, I- I don't

Mel Robbins 41:22 like the person that I was in high school, college, or law school, because I didn't know I was dealing with childhood trauma. I hadn't ever gotten any kind of professional, uh, counseling. I didn't even know that's what the issue was. I'm not proud of the fact that I cheated on former boyfriends. I'm not proud of the way that I showed up in friendships, and I definitely regret squandering opportunities that I had in college and law school, 'cause I just didn't take full advantage of everything that was in front of me, because I couldn't. I hadn't dealt with the deeper issues yet. But here's the thing about regret. What you'll actually regret are the things you didn't do. So if you've been thinking about moving away finally from your hometown, you will regret it if you don't. You will regret it if you don't go back to school. You'll regret it if you don't start dating again. You'll regret it if you don't take your health more seriously. You'll regret it if you don't start saving for that incredible trip that you've always wanted to take, even though you know it might take you five or six years to save for it. Don't let your fears hold you back from doing the things that you know in your heart you want to do. And that brings me all the way, full circle, to the very beginning of our conversation and the two major truths I told you that we were going to talk about. The first one is how you feel about someone or something is very different than how that person or place makes you feel. I'm going to say that again. How you feel about someone else is very different than how that person makes you feel.Put the weight of your decision in how the person makes you feel. Katrina's ex made her feel angry, rejected, disrespected. That's where she needs to put the weight when she's making a decision about what she's going to move toward next. And the same thing's true about where she lives. How does Indiana make her feel right now? Well, it makes her feel small and stuck, and like she's shrinking and no longer growing. Pay attention to that and put the weight of your decision in how that place is making you feel. Now you know what to move toward. And the second, and this is the biggest truth of them all, you must know the difference between what the right decision is in your heart, versus your fear of making that decision. Always find the courage to make the decision that is in your heart, because you will never ever regret it. Now, one thing that I would regret if I didn't do it right now is, I would deeply regret not telling you that I love you. So, in case no one else tells you today, I want to tell you that I love you, I believe in you. I'm so grateful to talk to you twice a week, and I believe in your ability to take these 10 takeaways and two truths about life, and apply them to go create a better life for yourself. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. (instrumental music)