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The Mel Robbins PodcastThe Mel Robbins Podcast

Stop Being Available: How to Set Better Boundaries and Take Your Power Back

Are you the person everyone depends on? Do you remember the appointments, make the plans, solve the problems, keep track of what everyone needs, and step in whenever something falls through the cracks?

Mel RobbinshostDr. Eric Thomasguest
Nov 7, 202649mWatch on YouTube ↗

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 5:56

    Meet the Guest

    1. MR

      Today on The Mel Robbins Podcast, the one, the only, Dr. Eric Thomas

    2. ET

      There's one person in our family, and that's the person that's been helping all of us. Your dreams are put on the back burner. Your health is put on the back burner. You have everybody else's list, but you don't have your own list. Where are you on that list? I've watched the women in my life make everybody a priority but themselves, and I've seen them do it at the cost of their dreams and their goals, starting with my mom.

    3. MR

      If you feel like everything falls to you and you've lost yourself along the way, today is a life-changing reminder that you matter, too.

    4. ET

      It's not healthy to pour from an empty cup. You can try, but it's not. The same people you pour into every day, at some point they gotta grow up and be able to pour back into you. You are uniquely you. You are special. You are gifted. You are talented. Love on you. [instrumental music plays]

    5. MR

      Dr. Eric Thomas, welcome back-

    6. ET

      Thank you

    7. MR

      ... to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

    8. ET

      Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    9. MR

      [laughs] You're so good, we're doing a double.

    10. ET

      Ah.

    11. MR

      [laughs]

    12. ET

      I- that's a- that's amazing. [laughs]

    13. MR

      Well, our first conversation we talked about taking control of your life-

    14. ET

      Yes, yes

    15. MR

      ... and personal responsibility.

    16. ET

      Yes.

    17. MR

      And this conversation I'm so excited for because it's really about how we take on responsibilities that are not ours to own, and how women in particular carry so much burden-

    18. ET

      Yeah

    19. MR

      ... that weighs us down, and how we can start to become a priority in our own lives again. Uh, you know, as a preacher, as an educator, as a world-renowned coach, I would love to have you speak to the person that's with us right now who is doing everything for everyone else.

    20. ET

      It's not healthy for you to feel like you have to do everything for everybody, and I want to, by the end of this episode, I want you to get to a place where you get help, right? I want you to know there's a season. There's a time and season for everything. There is a time to be helpful. There is a time to be a blessing, but there's also a time to receive help and to be taken care of.

    21. MR

      You know, Dr. Thomas, when did you realize that this was happening in your family and this message to women in particular about putting down the weight that you're carrying for everybody else? It became really personal.

    22. ET

      Yeah, it became personal to me when I looked at my career and how Dede's support elevated me from homelessness to being, like, PhD, New York Times bestseller, one of the best speakers in the world. I looked at my son graduating from college, working for a Hall of Famer like Coach Izzo. I looked at my daughter graduating from Michigan State, getting her master's degree, and now being a COO of a company, and I said, "Everybody's wish list has been taken care of but one person, and that's the person that's been helping all of us." That person hasn't gotten the help that they need to make all their dreams and goals become a reality. As a matter of fact, there's one person in our family that is not as healthy as we are, and that's the person that's been helping everybody else. And so it became clear to me that, um, one person was checking the list and checking it twice to make sure that everybody's life was nice, but that person that was checking on us, that person wasn't making themselves a priority, and that person wasn't demanding that the people that she blessed were taking care of her to the extent that she was taking care of us. And that's when I knew something has to change. The focus has to change. The attention has to change. The energy has to change. Like, you guys owe it to Dede to be the blessing to her that she was to you.

    23. MR

      And Dede, of course, is your wife.

    24. ET

      Yes.

    25. MR

      And what I also know about you and your story is that as a pastor, as a son-

    26. ET

      Mm

    27. MR

      ... as a grandson, you have seen this in women all over the place.

    28. ET

      Yeah.

    29. MR

      And so it's even deeper than what you experienced in your marriage.

    30. ET

      Absolutely, because I've watched the women in my life make everybody a priority but themselves, and I've seen them do it at the cost of their dreams and their goals, starting with my mom. My mom was brilliant, and my mom decided not to go to college. My mom decided to raise me because that's what she thought she needed to do for me.

  2. 5:56 – 14:29

    The Invisible Mental Load: Why You Feel Mentally Exhausted

    1. ET

      but herself to the extent that she took care of everybody. I'd never really seen her do it for herself like that. I watch my mom, who's now a caregiver for my father, who has multiple sclerosis. I'm watching my mom make sure that he's going to therapy when he doesn't wanna go to therapy, that she's making sure he's motivated and making sure that he has everything he need, and I'm watching her not happy sometimes because in the midst of making sure my dad is phenomenal, which is great, but she's not taking care of herself. I'm telling you from somebody who I wouldn't be where I am without my wife, without my mother, without my grandmother, without my aunts. No disrespect to my uncles-

    2. MR

      [laughs]

    3. ET

      ... but it was my aunts that raised me. It was my grandmother. It was women that raised me. And so I'm not saying don't be the phenomenal caretaker you are, but where are you on that list? Where are you on that list?

    4. MR

      And this is what I would say as I w- was listening to you, is that even making a list of all of the things that you're doing and all of the weight that you carry and the load energetically and physically and mentally and spiritually that you hold, simply making the list actually is you seeing that there is value in the list. And until you make the list, you can't ask yourself, "Am I the best person for this job? Do I even want this job?"

    5. ET

      Absolutely.

    6. MR

      "Can I train somebody else to this job?"

    7. ET

      Absolutely.

    8. MR

      Uh, can we, uh, use a little money and have somebody else-

    9. ET

      Yeah, us do this job

    10. MR

      ... do this job?

    11. ET

      Yeah.

    12. MR

      And you get into these modes where you're still doing things the way you did 20 years ago, wondering why you feel taken advantage of, and you haven't stopped to say, "Wait a minute. What are all the things that I'm doing around here? What are the things that weigh me down? What are the things that make me feel alone in carrying this?" And making just the list, and I'm gonna read you some of the things that are on the list from the team that's producing this episode. Uh, here's what's weighing me down. "I keep the list of all the things we have to do around the house. I'm the one that manages the kids' schedule. I make sure the bills are paid. I make sure the home is safe. I make sure that my demeanor is calm and understanding so my fiance can heal. You know, I put my bad day on hold so that you can vent to me about yours. I make the grocery list. I plan and cook the dinners. I'm the one that makes sure the dogs are fed. I remember the family members' birthdays, both mine and your family's. I make sure pictures are taken on big holidays," and I would add, and I'm never in them. I-- is why I'm always complaining that I don't ever have a family photo. "I feel obligated to be the fixer, the handy person. I help my spouse write all important messages. Basically, I'm his ghostwriter."

    13. ET

      Yes.

    14. MR

      "I make sure the fridge is stocked when your ass gets home from college." Ooh, talking about-

    15. ET

      Yeah. [laughs]

    16. MR

      ... the adult kids. I hear that one.

    17. ET

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      "I'm obligated to be the glass half full person so my partner can vent, but I bring it back to the positive. I do the jobs no one wants to. Christmas happens because of me. I say yes to helping everyone. I, quote, 'Make it work.'" In fact, you write about the impact of carrying the weight that, and, and what it had on your wife.

    19. ET

      Yeah, Dede.

    20. MR

      I would love to have you talk a little bit about how while you're chasing your dream, Dede is also carrying a weight.

    21. ET

      I remember, you know, coming to this realization when I finally grew up because for so long I was so immature. And so financially, I, I'm, I'm taking money and I'm buying stuff and Dede's like, "Hey, the electricity got cut off. That's not possible. How did that happen?" I was like, "What do you mean by that?" She's like, "I gave you the money to take to the electric company. Like, what happened?" And I'm like, "Oh, about that. I went to the mall first." And so not only did Dede graduate first, not only did Dede pass her NCLEX first and become a registered nurse, not only did she get a job first, right? She's got the be- health benefits first. Um, I couldn't even get on our first home because my credit was so bad that-- then my credit is great. I'm like, "How is my credit great?" She literally puts me on her Discover card without telling me she's putting me on a Discover card, so every time she's paying and handling her business, it's looking like I'm be- And so she's just been pulling all this time. So let's fast-forward, right? That's the first part of you're, you're not financially mature. You're making mistakes, right? Dede's mature. The part that really blew my mind is now I'm traveling the world, getting an opportunity to make my dreams and goals become a reality, and some months I might make some money, and some months I might not make money. And I got this GED program that I'm doing for free and spending hours there and, and, and I never knew she was carrying the load, meaning, "I'm gonna make sure that the bills are paid. I'm gonna make sure we have health benefits. And I believe in your dreams, and I believe in your goals, but I believe in them in a way that is different than you. I believe in it as I gotta get up and I gotta go handle my business. You're chasing something. I'm building a foundation." And I never knew how that was weighing on her. Fast-forward now, Dede's traveling the world with me, and Dede's like, "Just in case you didn't know, I only wanted to be a nurse. I just wanted to retire after 30 years. I never had any dreams or goals of ch- Like, I wanted to help you make your dreams. I never knew that I was going to be your partner. I'm the person that has to make sure that everything is done right so that we don't lose the house that you bought. I-- You, you got the dream. You, you attract it. I have to maintain it. So I've got three kids." [laughs] I said, "I thought we had two." She said, "I have three. I have Jalen, Jada, and Eric." Right? I got three kids. I got-

    22. MR

      You're the big kid

    23. ET

      ... I got-- The big kid. And, and so Mel, the greatest mistake I made was not chasing my dream, but I dragged Dede into it. There was never any buy-in. We never sat down. I never asked her, "How far do you wanna go? How much do you wanna do?" You know what? I do, I do believe, uh, so I do believe when Dede was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, for me it was like, how did this happen? Like, how did we get here? And what stress is Dede bearing because of you? And so there was a point when we were in the hospital and they were talking about stress that I had to say to myself, "What part of stress can you own?" After I got the diagnosis, we came home. I'm like, "You're not gonna do this. You're not gonna do this. You're not gonna do this. You're not gonna do that." And Dede was like, "Yo, you're doing a phenomenal job of protecting me from everybody, but you also have to protect me from you." And that's the one person that I don't see that got-- Like, I don't see you on the list, and so you have to protect me as well. You have to protect me from what you bring in. You have to protect me from the new roles and responsibilities that you take on. You have to protect me from the traveling. Like, Mel, you can only imagine the traveling schedule. Dede was like, "I can't keep doing these red-eyes with multiple sclerosis." And guess what? I'm saying to every woman out there that's strong, Dede was strong. And Dede was like, "Yo, if you need me to do it and this is gonna help our family, I got you. I got your back." Sh- Dede was willing to do whatever it took for, for the dream we had when we were 16 years old on the porch on Cruz in Detroit. Like, Dede was like, "This is what we dreamed of, so whatever I need to do, and I don't want to feel like I'm holding us back." And so I'm saying to the woman that's out there, just give yourself permission. Tell yourself who you are, what you're capable of, what you've done for the family, but speak up. And I had to tell Dede, "You got a voice in this, Dede. Now, I haven't done a good job of listening to your voice. I haven't done a great job of giving you space for your voice. But from this day forward, let's communicate." And we just got to a place where we started to communicate, and Dede started to say, like, "I wanna communicate. Like, I wanna talk every day. Like, I wanna go shopping. I want you not to just physically be in the room with me, but I, I want you to pay attention. Like, I want you to be at the fitting room when I come out. I want to see-- [laughs] I want you to see if you really like this or not. Like, I, I wanna go out to eat, and I don't want, you know, you on the phone or taking phone calls. Like, I want your undivided attention, and we're together as a family. I just want us to be together as a family." And we talk, Mel, every morning, 7:30 to 8:30. We just talk, and I just listen. And that's hard. I'm still bec- I'm more of a talker than I am a listener, but I'm listening to Dede.

  3. 14:29 – 17:52

    Sharing Household Responsibilities With Your Partner and Family

    1. MR

      You know, I know m- a lot of women say, "But if I stop, who's gonna take care of them? If I stop, they're gonna be disappointed. If I don't go, who's g- who's gonna handle that?"

    2. ET

      You, you need to understand that you are more than a role. You're more than a role. And, and I know you found so much joy in being a mother. You so- you found so much joy in being a wife. You know? You so- you found so much joy in being a partner. I get it, and that role is important, but you are bigger than a role. You're more than a role. So before you became a mother, you were somebody. Before you became a wife, you were somebody. That's why they chose you. That's why you're a mother. That's why you brought children into this world, because of who you are, not because of what you do. And, and I can't say that enough. You are bigger than your role. W-with-- If you weren't a wife, you would still be special. If you weren't a partner in a business, you'd still be special. If you weren't a speaker or a counselor or a coach, you are-- You, you are why they love you, not what you do. That-- They don't love you for what you do. They love you because of who you are, and I can't ex-e-express that enough. And I also wanna say this. You have a voice. You really do have a voice. You as the human, you're gifted. You as the human, you're unique. You as the human, you are important, and you matter, and your voice matters. And I'm telling you, you have more power than you know. Your voice is stronger than what you believe it is. And I'm saying speak.

    3. MR

      For the woman who is, though, because I think a lot of women feel that if I suddenly stop doing everything for everyone, then they're gonna be disappointed in me.

    4. ET

      They are. But you-

    5. MR

      S- Tell her that. Tell her

    6. ET

      ... Yeah. No, I'm, I'm gonna be very disappointed when Dede stops doing some of the things that she does. But guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna be empowered. My son's gonna be empowered. My daughter's gonna be empowered, and we're gonna learn. So Dede was always the person that took care of all the bills. Guess what happened when she stopped? I had to start doing them, and I didn't die. And so I'm saying it's okay to stop idolizing the role. It's okay to pull back. I promise you. I promise you we can step up. I promise you we can step in. I promise you I'm doing way more for Dede now than I've ever done for Dede before because Dede spoke up and said, "I can't keep doing this anymore." So don't s-so, so don't be afraid that if you step up that somebody's gonna leave, or don't be afraid that if you don't step up, it's not gonna be as good as it is if you do it. So I'm just saying for all the women that are listening to me today, don't, don't idolize the role anymore. You don't have to do the role to be special. You are special outside of the role, and I guarantee you if you give your family an opportunity to love on you, if you give your family an opportunity to support you, I'm telling you, you're gonna be shocked if you get out the way. You'll be shocked when they step in and step up. But they cannot take the role when you're still dominating the role. They cannot take the role when you're still present in the role. So get out of the role and give them an opportunity to take the role, and I guarantee you you're gonna be grateful for the way you spoil them or the way you bless them because they're gonna be a bigger blessing to you than you ever were to

  4. 17:52 – 26:04

    How to Identify Your Priorities and Focus on What Matters Most

    1. ET

      them.

    2. MR

      If somebody came to you and they were seeking your counsel because they're incredibly stressed out by the demands of their job and the demands of their marriage and the demands of raising kids and the demands of aging parents, the stress of finances, how would you coach them, Dr. Thomas, to identify what are the things that they're carrying too much of, and what are the places where you're just in a season of life that sucks and you have to shoulder it?

    3. ET

      Well, this was my mom just recently, and it was tough, 'cause this was my mom about my grandmother, her mother.

    4. MR

      Mm.

    5. ET

      And I told my mom, "You can't give a life for a life. Like, Ma, you can't give your life for Grandma's life. Like, it-- you, you're not a doctor. You're not a nurse. Like, Grandma needs to be in a facility that- ... is trained to help her. You can't, you can't, you can't bring her to the house, Ma. You- or, or you can't let Grandma stay in her home, and every time she picks up the phone and call you, you gotta stop what you're doing. Ma, you can't give a life for a life. And that was tough, 'cause my grandmother raised me, but I had to say to my mom, "Mom, you have a capacity, and you have to know what your capacity is. Like, you need to do a audit, Ma. You need to do an inventory. Yes, you retired, but just because you can doesn't mean you should." Now, my sister is also a registered nurse. "Ma, we can ask our, we can ask Jenico to do it. She, she can help because she is a registered nurse." So I would just say, first of all, you have to get out of your feelings and you gotta get into principles.

    6. MR

      Oh, well, explain this.

    7. ET

      Yeah, so-

    8. MR

      Because I do think, like, the first thing that came up for me as I was listening to that is, oh my God, I would feel so guilty.

    9. ET

      Feel, right? Which is not a healthy way to make decisions. It's principle. Principle of the matter is, are you the best person for the job? Listen to me. If you're not training somebody else to do it, that's a problem. If you're, if you're that good at it and you can't train somebody else to do it, and you're gonna have to do it for the rest of your life, that's why it's overwhelming. So you have to understand that everything you do well, you have to teach somebody because as a mother, you can't be a mother for the rest of your life the same way you were when they were toddlers or when they were in high school. At some point, you need a reprieve. At some point, they need to grow up and it needs to be reciprocity. You cannot continue to give. Or I should say this, it's not healthy to pour from an empty cup. You can try, but it's not. That cup should continue to be filled by who? The people you bless. So if you're helping people and it's not helping, then guess what you're doing? You're hurting. So the same people you pour into every day, at some point they gotta grow up and be able to pour back into you.

    10. MR

      Teach me about that.

    11. ET

      Yeah, so-

    12. MR

      What do you mean feeling versus principle?

    13. ET

      So, so by feeling, I mean you're making an emotional decision, right? You're making a decision, again, you know, I feel-

    14. MR

      When it comes to family and kids though, that's all I do, Eric.

    15. ET

      Yeah, yeah, but-

    16. MR

      I feel guilty.

    17. ET

      Yeah, so-

    18. MR

      I feel like you're irritating me, so I'm just gonna pay that bill that you keep calling about-

    19. ET

      Yeah

    20. MR

      ... 'cause you're upset.

    21. ET

      And that's-

    22. MR

      You know what I mean?

    23. ET

      Yeah, and that's great.

    24. MR

      Like, I just feel like that's all I'm driven by-

    25. ET

      Yeah

    26. MR

      ... as a mom.

    27. ET

      Yeah, and that's, and that's great, but, but-

    28. MR

      It's not great

    29. ET

      ... but the outcomes are not great from that.

    30. MR

      Yes.

  5. 26:04 – 29:05

    Stop Putting Your Dreams and Goals Last

    1. ET

      Like, maybe you don't go to every game. [laughs] Maybe you don't go to every game. Maybe you don't help with all the homework. Maybe you don't do all the chores. Maybe, maybe you don't have all the responsibilities. And if you could just give yourself 10 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day in the tub. Just 10, 15 minutes a day. Lock the door. Nobody comes in. I just need peace. I just need to be by myself. If you can get up 30 minutes early and go walk in your neighborhood, right? No phone, right? Whatever. I'm just saying I, I just want you to, step one, get back to you. Get back to spending time with you. Get back to dreaming, the dreamer you. Get back to the things you wanted to accomplish or the things that brought you joy. Just get back to you for a minute, and every day do a little bit more you, right? And then I'd say after wha- after that, talk to your family and tell your family, "I love y'all. I'm not going nowhere. I wanna continue to support you guys. I wanna continue to make you guys a priority. I wanna continue to help elevate you, and develop you, and take you to another level, but Mom needs some mom time. Mom needs some development time. Like, Mom doesn't want to pour, pour, pour where Mom doesn't have anything left, but Mom wants to enjoy her life. Mom wants to live her life. Mom wants to die on E and tra- and get my bucket list done." So what's your bucket list? And let's spend some time every day just marking it off. And for those that love you, let them hear this part. Bless Mom like Mom blessed you, right? Pour into Mom like Mom poured in. Love on Mom like Mom loved on you. Sacrifice like Mom sacrificed for you. Like, give Mom some of her time back. Give her some of her energy and capacity back. Give her some of her love and joy back. Everything she gave to you, it's time for you to give it back. But do me a huge favor. Just think about a time when it was just you and what life meant when it was just you, and let's get back to loving on ourselves is what I would say.

    2. MR

      Uh, Dr. Thomas, brilliant, necessary. But if you're very overwhelmed and you feel like you have no time, which becomes the biggest excuse for why a lot of women in particular don't make time for themselves, the research shows that if you add in something-

    3. ET

      Hmm

    4. MR

      ... that you love doing, that's meaningful to you, you feel as though you have more time.

    5. ET

      Hmm.

    6. MR

      Because you are elbowing out room in the week for something that really brings you back to life, whether it's a painting class, or a book club, or, you know, taking a dance class, or could be anything. Could be singing in the church choir again. Anything that's important to you that makes you feel like you again. And so not only is that instruction to really think back before this role that you have-

    7. ET

      Right

    8. MR

      ... before this chapter, who were you?

    9. ET

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      What did you love? And then if you were to insert that now-

    11. ET

      Hmm

    12. MR

      ... you would start to immediately feel parts of yourself and who you are that you have long forgotten in this

  6. 29:05 – 32:16

    Why You Need to Stop Doing Everything for Everyone

    1. MR

      chapter. And so what your family can do is kick your mom out of the house on Wednesday. Just kick her out. Like, maybe what needs to happen is maybe the ball needs to be dropped.

    2. ET

      Absolutely.

    3. MR

      Because I think most people don't realize that the ball needs to be carried because somebody else has been doing such a great job that they've gotten very used to it getting handled. And to your point, it, it's, it's painful to hear, but until you drop the ball and you say, "Somebody else has gotta pick it up," I don't know that anybody else is gonna magically do it. You know, what do you do... I'd love to have you-

    4. ET

      Which, but I wanna say this, though. This is... You'll never know if you don't drop it. Like, you'll never know if they can pick it up or not, and some of this stuff doesn't need to get done because if it gets done, you don't. Your dreams are put on the back burner. Like, your goals are put on, your health is put on the back burner.

    5. MR

      Well, you know what's interesting about this is that I do think this idea, we start to gaslight ourselves. Well, if I don't do it, nobody's gonna do it.

    6. ET

      Absolutely.

    7. MR

      And here's, here's, here's the thing I would say to challenge yourself. And? So the laundry's not gonna do- get done. So they come home, and there's no groceries in the fridge.

    8. ET

      They'll figure it out.

    9. MR

      Like, maybe what needs to happen is maybe the ball needs to be dropped.

    10. ET

      Absolutely.

    11. MR

      Because I think most people don't realize that the ball needs to be carried because somebody else has been doing such a great job that they've gotten very used to it getting handled. And to your point, it, it's, it's painful to hear, but until you drop the ball and you say, "Somebody else has gotta pick it up I don't know that anybody else is gonna magically do it

    12. ET

      You'll never know if you don't drop it. Like, you'll never know if they can pick it up or not. And so funny story, as you were saying that, all the kids at church love... Man, they like, "Man, Eric, y'all clothes smell so good. What do you use?" Everything Dede did. When she stopped washing, I, I learned how to do the unst- uh, Unstoppables. I learned how to, um, put the fabric softener in first. I learned how to do the, um, the, the liquid bleach, the col- I learned how to do everything. But I couldn't do it when Dede was doing it and saying it was overwhelming her. But once she stopped doing it, guess what happened? I still needed my clothes done well. So I would go to Dede and say, "Hey, Dede, I just need... Can you give me two sessions? You do the first one, I watch you, and then I'll try it, and then we'll do the second session." Everybody talks about how good my clothes smell, right? The neighbors are like, "Yo, your clothes." But Dede had to stop. Dede had to stop cooking, and guess what? My son is the best cook in the house now, 'cause his mom stopped cooking. Matter of fact, his sister don't know how to cook because he cooks so well for everybody. So I'm saying, to Dede's point, if it, if I don't do it, it won't get done. And if you don't do it, nobody's gonna die. And if it's that important to them, they're gonna have to figure it out the way you figured it out, and they're gonna have to take ownership of it. And once they take ownership of it, guess what? Mom gets to chill because you've work-

  7. 32:16 – 39:18

    The Pressure to Be Perfect and Why It's Time to Let Go

    1. ET

      Is motherhood or women being strong the only profession that you don't retire from? It's like you, you retire as a basketball player, you retire as a boxer, you retire as a... At what point does Mom get to say, "I'm retiring from being that mom I used to be or that wife I used to be"? So I'm gonna just say, look, you, you gotta s- you gotta be the first one and say, "It stops," and you gotta bring the family together and say, "Hey, guys, we gotta put a plan together. Supermom was great for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, but it's time for Supermom to retire, and it's time for Supermom to get spoiled and get loved on."

    2. MR

      Uh, you know, there's a couple things that you just said that I wanna make sure I highlight. One is that you can tell you're caring too much when you start resenting the people you love, and you start-

    3. ET

      Yeah

    4. MR

      ... feeling unappreciated.

    5. ET

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      I also love this idea of make a list of all the things you hate doing, and that you resent doing, and that you are telling yourself, "Well, if I don't do it, nobody's gonna do it."

    7. ET

      It's not gonna get done, yeah.

    8. MR

      And the third thing is you're not retiring until you tell people you're retiring.

    9. ET

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      And one thing that's made a huge difference in our family is the, [laughs] is having these conversations-

    11. ET

      Yes

    12. MR

      ... and identifying-

    13. ET

      Wow

    14. MR

      ... the things that everybody hates, 'cause most people hate doing the same things. Most people hate dealing with dishes, with groceries, cooking, uh, remembering to feed the dog, picking up the dog poop outside, moving the laundry along. And when I have started to identify those as a household item versus a Chris Robbins or a Mel Robbins item-

    15. ET

      Absolutely

    16. MR

      ... no, these are shared. They're not assigned [laughs] by gender. It's amazing what a family group chat can do. "Hey, it's 5:00. I'm on a call. Can somebody feed the dog?"

    17. ET

      Come on.

    18. MR

      "Hey, I can't run to the grocery store tomorrow. Who can pick up this list of things on the way home?" And starting to, as you said, instead of being feelings, "If I don't do it, nobody's gonna eat, and what are we gonna eat?" No, principles. Household chores-

    19. ET

      Absolutely

    20. MR

      ... are shared among the household. And if people are living here, people are helping out. And every text that you send, you're asking yourself first, "Are you the best person for the job right now? Or are you on a phone call and out for your girlfriends? You're not the best person for the job."

    21. ET

      Absolutely.

    22. MR

      "Can I ask somebody else to do it? Why, why, why am I self-assigning?" And just because you did it for the last two decades does not mean you're gonna do it for the next decade.

    23. ET

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      Like, you can change anytime you want.

    25. ET

      Yeah, you can. And I, I wanna say, and this may not be everybody, but there's some validation in certain roles where, whereas, you know, I had to say to Dede, "You know, we can actually have somebody else do that." But, but Dede and I both, in different roles, we had to say, "I'm, I'm used to making the turkey." For Thanksgiving, for years, I made the turkey. And I'll be honest, it wasn't just making the turkey, it was, it was, like, that's my... You know, nobody else makes the turkey. I make the turkey. And it got to a point where it's like, "Eric, the turkey is good. The experience is good. But you're in a season where you could give it up and give it to somebody else." And I don't know what that thing is, but, like, your identity-

    26. MR

      Everybody has that

    27. ET

      ... yeah, your identity. My... You know, a little bit of my ego was in there.

    28. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. ET

      And I, and I had to not let the turkey go. I had to let go of, "I'm gonna be the per- I'm gonna be that guy."

    30. MR

      Well, you know what's interesting about that? Is that we all have a version of being the person that at family gatherings was the one who made the pie or was the one who made the turkey.

  8. 39:18 – 49:46

    How to Ask for Help Without Feeling Guilty

    1. MR

      it. You know, could you talk to the person listening and just give them a little coaching, Dr. Thomas, about asking for help? Like, why is it so hard to ask for help, and why do you need to ask for help when you feel like you're carrying the load?

    2. ET

      I think one of the deeper realizations is that nobody's gonna do it the way you do it. Like, a- a- a- and, and, and you, you, you have to come to a place of peace with that. Like, the level of care that you give, the level of support that you give, the level of attention and detail you give, nobody in this house is gonna be able to do it the way you do it, and you gotta be okay with that. And you also have to be okay with knowing that they're not, but allowing people to be as good as they possibly can be. So, so the reason why I think it's so difficult for you to ask for help is because you actually don't think you're getting it. Like, the reason why it's difficult for you to ask for help is because you don't feel like people will ever be able to reach your standard or do it to the level that you want them to do it. But I, I say this. You... I told my mother, "You cannot give a life for a life." Cleaning a house can't be deeper than your own emotional wellness.

    3. MR

      Hmm.

    4. ET

      Right? Washing clothes can't be as deep as your mental health, and so you've gotta learn that, no, it probably won't look the way it would look if I did it. No, it will not be as clean. No, it won't be as thorough. No, they won't be able to do it to the level that I'm able to do it, but I promise you this: you'll be able to have a life.

    5. MR

      I also love that you can help yourself-

    6. ET

      Yes

    7. MR

      ... by just making this list and asking yourself, like, "Does this even matter to me? Can I lower my standards a little so I can-

    8. ET

      Yeah

    9. MR

      ... raise my standard of living?"

    10. ET

      Yeah. Yeah.

    11. MR

      You know what I'm saying?

    12. ET

      Yeah. And, and does this matter to them?

    13. MR

      Okay, let's repeat that because I feel like we do that.

    14. ET

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      We make sure all the laundry's done, and your kids don't care. We make sure the mudroom is picked up, and the stuff's in the cubbies. Nobody cares 'cause they throw their stuff right back on the floor.

    16. ET

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      We make sure the dishes are always done, and the da, da, da, da, da, and the da, da, da, and the counters are clean. Nobody cares 'cause they keep-

    18. ET

      Nobody

    19. MR

      ... putting their stuff on the counter.

    20. ET

      Yeah. You care more than they care. And Dede said, "Some of the stuff that you're doing for our family, you made that up."

    21. MR

      Mm.

    22. ET

      "We never sat down and talked about that. You never asked us if that's what we wanted. That's what you thought we wanted, or that's what you wanted to impose on us, but we didn't ask for that." Dede said, "I'd rather have you than a trip. Like, I'd rather just spend time with my husband." And so I'm saying we have to be careful that the things that we're doing for our family are really things that we're doing for our family and not just things we're saying we're doing for our family that we really wanna do for ourselves, that make us happy, and that fulfill us. It's not about me anymore, it's about we. And so to myself, I had to say that, and to Dede I had to just say, "Dede, make sure the stuff that you're doing that you feel like is a blessing to us is really a blessing to us and not just something that was a blessing to us 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Let's live in today. What's best for us today?" And you said it. There's no way to do it without communicating. There's no way... We, we don't serve our families or ourselves when we keep it to ourselves. Let's just have the daily conversation. Let's just communicate. Let's just do an audit of what's really important, and let's do that because honestly, I assume that I'm going to live to maybe 90. I assume that I'm gonna live a long life, but I don't know that I have until next week, so we can't spend it just on chores, or we can't spend it just on whatever. Like, we didn't get married to do chores. We didn't get married to d- we, we got married to be with each other, and be blissful, and to make our lives better by being together.

    23. MR

      Dr. Thomas- What is the most important thing of everything we talked about today for the person listening to do after hearing this?

    24. ET

      Yeah, making yourself a priority. And, and you say, "How?" By thinking about the people that are a priority and what are you doing for them, and just flip it. You have everybody else's list, but you don't have your own list. And so I would just say, I'm not saying don't be a blessing to others, but do for you. Take care of you. You only get one life.

    25. MR

      One of the great things about this conversation is we're inviting you-

    26. ET

      Yes

    27. MR

      ... to stop.

    28. ET

      And ask.

    29. MR

      Put down the dishes.

    30. ET

      Yeah.

Episode duration: 49:46

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