Controlling The World's Social Media | Dominic McGregor

1. 0:00 – 1:18

   Inside Social Chain’s “meme factory”: what the company actually does

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      (wind blowing) So Dominic McGregor, welcome to Modern Wisdom. How are you?

   2. DMDominic McGregor0:09

      Good, thank you. How are you?

   3. CWChris Williamson0:10

      Very good, thank you.

   4. DMDominic McGregor0:10

      Good drive?

   5. CWChris Williamson0:11

      Yeah, yeah (laughs) , good drive down from Newcastle to Manchester in the rain. Just typical British weather.

   6. DMDominic McGregor0:16

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson0:16

      Um, so, (sighs) it's c- it's crazy to come into this office, which is several thousand square feet and looks like a labyrinth, um, with sleeping pods and a bar and a fully functioning kitchen-

   8. DMDominic McGregor0:30

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:30

      ... with a chef in, and all the rest of it. And this is where memes are made-

   10. DMDominic McGregor0:34

       (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson0:35

       ... that, that run around the UK, right?

   12. DMDominic McGregor0:37

       It's, it's the meme factory, yeah. We, uh, I don't, I don't, I didn't like that title, um, but-

   13. CWChris Williamson0:41

       I saw in that article, like-

   14. DMDominic McGregor0:42

       (laughs) .

   15. CWChris Williamson0:43

       Was it on the, was it on The Guardian?

   16. DMDominic McGregor0:44

       It was The Guardian, yeah. Um, and it just called us the meme factory, which we are. You know, we, uh, we make a lot of, a lot of content here. But, um, yeah, a little bit about us. So we started, um, in the room next door with, like, a white table. It's like the same one that we're on here.

   17. CWChris Williamson0:59

       Mm-hmm.

   18. DMDominic McGregor0:59

       There was, the only thing is there was four of them, one for every single person. And we were sat, and I think these are, like, very similar to the white tables we had.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:06

       Mm-hmm.

   20. DMDominic McGregor1:07

       We, we got them as a li- little bit of a memory. Um, and we, um, were working in the room, starting Social Chain, which is a marketing agency.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:18

       Mm-hmm.

2. 1:18 – 2:40

   Owning the audience: 400 million reach and why communities matter

   1. DMDominic McGregor1:18

      And it took us, you know, three or four months to really find out that we were actually in, on to something. And what was different between us and any other marketing agency, is we own big communities.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:29

      Mm-hmm.

   3. DMDominic McGregor1:29

      So we own big social media pages from Student Problems, SPARF, Love Food, uh, BFIT Motivation, uh, and we went and worked with brands on them communities.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:38

      So I'm right in saying that you guys have got access to about 400 million people, is that right?

   5. DMDominic McGregor1:43

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:44

      The total combined reach-

   7. DMDominic McGregor1:45

      Across Facebook and-

   8. CWChris Williamson1:46

      ... is about 400 million people?

   9. DMDominic McGregor1:47

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Across the world.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:49

       Which is-

   11. DMDominic McGregor1:50

       We have followers in, like, Taiwan-

   12. CWChris Williamson1:52

       Fucking stupid.

   13. DMDominic McGregor1:52

       ... everywhere.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:53

       Like, what? Like, who's got 400 million of anything?

   15. DMDominic McGregor1:56

       I know.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:56

       Like (laughs) it's just crazy.

   17. DMDominic McGregor1:57

       When you put it into a graphic, it's, like, ridiculous. Like-

   18. CWChris Williamson2:00

       It's terrifying.

   19. DMDominic McGregor2:01

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson2:02

       But f- so, uh, I found out about you guys about two years ago from one of my best mates who actually works for you.

   21. DMDominic McGregor2:07

       Yep.

   22. CWChris Williamson2:07

       And what he explained to me about Social Chain at the time, felt absolutely ground-breaking, that you guys have access to the network.

   23. DMDominic McGregor2:17

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CWChris Williamson2:17

       You understand the platform.

   25. DMDominic McGregor2:18

       Yep.

   26. CWChris Williamson2:18

       And then you do the creative?

   27. DMDominic McGregor2:20

       Yep.

   28. CWChris Williamson2:20

       And for me, I was like, "How has no one come up with this before?" Because influencers have been around for, what, like, five, ten years? Or-

   29. DMDominic McGregor2:28

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson2:28

       ... I guess five years kind of really prevalently.
3. 2:40 – 3:38

   How Student Problems started (toilet paper, Twitter, and rapid traction)

   1. CWChris Williamson2:40

      What was the first page that you started off with?

   2. DMDominic McGregor2:42

      Student Problems.

   3. CWChris Williamson2:43

      Was it really?

   4. DMDominic McGregor2:44

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson2:44

      And who started that?

   6. DMDominic McGregor2:45

      Me.

   7. CWChris Williamson2:45

      You started-

   8. DMDominic McGregor2:46

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson2:46

      ... Student Problems?

   10. DMDominic McGregor2:47

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson2:47

       No way.

   12. DMDominic McGregor2:48

       So I was, I was at university in Edinburgh.

   13. CWChris Williamson2:50

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DMDominic McGregor2:50

       Um, and I went out one night. I don't know why. I honestly, it was like a really heavy night. It was like half-past five. Actually, do you know what? I think it's exactly five years ago today.

   15. CWChris Williamson3:01

       No way.

   16. DMDominic McGregor3:01

       I think, I think. I'll double check, but I think it was the 7th of February.

   17. CWChris Williamson3:04

       That's fantastic.

   18. DMDominic McGregor3:05

       So I think it is. Um, went out. And woke up the next day, and had no toilet paper in my toilet.

   19. CWChris Williamson3:14

       (laughs)

   20. DMDominic McGregor3:15

       So instead of, you know, and literally the, the shop was down the bottom of the s- the street. I coulda walked and bought it. So instead of going and getting it, I decided to start a Twitter page and tweet about my life.

   21. CWChris Williamson3:25

       'Cause you didn't have any toilet paper?

   22. DMDominic McGregor3:26

       The fact I had no toilet paper.

   23. CWChris Williamson3:27

       Yeah.

   24. DMDominic McGregor3:27

       And then for the next couple of weeks, just tweeting everything that I was doing.

   25. CWChris Williamson3:31

       Uh-huh.

   26. DMDominic McGregor3:31

       Literally the, my life through my eyes.

   27. CWChris Williamson3:33

       Yeah, yeah.

   28. DMDominic McGregor3:33

       So, like, realizing how expensive cheese was, for example.

   29. CWChris Williamson3:37

       (laughs)

   30. DMDominic McGregor3:37

       Which is very expensive when you s-
4. 3:38 – 7:15

   From WallPark to Social Chain: cutting out the website middleman

   1. DMDominic McGregor3:38

      ... when you've, when you move out. Um, I love cheese. And then just little things like that, and then it got to, like, 20,000 followers in the space of two weeks. And then, um, Steve got in touch with me 'cause he was running a website which was like Coventry for Students.

   2. CWChris Williamson3:52

      Okay.

   3. DMDominic McGregor3:52

      It was called WallPark.

   4. CWChris Williamson3:53

      Right.

   5. DMDominic McGregor3:54

      And, um, he was kind of just doing the traditional mark- traditional marketing methods by leaflets and nightclubs and, uh-

   6. CWChris Williamson4:00

      Yeah.

   7. DMDominic McGregor4:01

      ... everything else people do to try and reach students. And, um, took a step back of it and actually realized that so- that social is where students were spending their attention.

   8. CWChris Williamson4:09

      Absolutely.

   9. DMDominic McGregor4:10

      Looked on Twitter for students. Student Problems came up, emailed me. We met in Vodka Revs in York for about an hour, had a chat. And then after that conversation, I'd, I dropped out university, moved to Manchester, started working at WallPark with him. And then we just built, built more and more social media pages till the point where we got about 10 million driving, traffic to WallPark. Realized that, you know what? One day we're gonna have to get money from advertisers.

   10. CWChris Williamson4:35

       Mm-hmm.

   11. DMDominic McGregor4:36

       We could drive a million people to WallPark, but we've got 10 million people on social. Why would advertisers wanna be on a website when they can just be on the social media pages?

   12. CWChris Williamson4:43

       You can build a directing cut out the middle man.

   13. DMDominic McGregor4:45

       Exactly. So we started putting brands on social, got rid of the website, traveled the world, found more people who ran big social pages, like Hannah who ran Hogwarts Logic, which is the biggest Harry Potter page.

   14. CWChris Williamson4:56

       Yeah.

   15. DMDominic McGregor4:56

       Got them all together, put them in the warehouse here, um, and just, we've just tried to see if this was something, and it was.

   16. CWChris Williamson5:05

       It definitely feels like it is, doesn't it?

   17. DMDominic McGregor5:07

       Mm-hmm.

   18. CWChris Williamson5:07

       It's, it's cra- it's absolutely mad that you guys are at the forefront of a wave of s- social media, not in terms of adoption but more in terms of how it's, how the use from marketing is being delivered to people.

   19. DMDominic McGregor5:21

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson5:22

       Um, I think that, that organic, genuinely creative adding value kind of content.

   21. DMDominic McGregor5:29

       Yeah, yeah. I think, I think it's, um, meaningful.

   22. CWChris Williamson5:32

       Yes.

   23. DMDominic McGregor5:32

       People, people we, us generation, I'm pretty sure everyone's got ad, ad blockers-

   24. CWChris Williamson5:37

       Yeah.

   25. DMDominic McGregor5:37

       ... on their laptop, they're, they're sick of telling, being told what to do by brands. Um, you know, our, our whole f- thing is now about how brands can actually form a connection-

   26. CWChris Williamson5:46

       Mm-hmm.

   27. DMDominic McGregor5:46

       ... and care about their consumers. And, and we know as people, individuals ourselves, what we purchase now actually depends much more on what the brand says about us-

   28. CWChris Williamson5:56

       Mm-hmm.

   29. DMDominic McGregor5:56

       ... rather than anything, rather than quality, rather than, um, cost in some instances.

   30. CWChris Williamson6:00

       We self-brand with everything.
5. 7:15 – 8:57

   Naming and launching Social Chain: travel, consulting, and the first investment

   1. CWChris Williamson7:15

      And, is that, where do you, when did you begin the actual, um, brand of Social Chain? When did that start?

   2. DMDominic McGregor7:22

      Yeah. So we were at Wall Park for about, Steve was, Steve started it when he was, um, 18, so he was doing it for about three years, I was there for about a year.

   3. CWChris Williamson7:29

      Mm-hmm.

   4. DMDominic McGregor7:30

      Um, and then when we sold that back to the investors, we had a bit of time out, where we went traveling the world.

   5. CWChris Williamson7:35

      Mm-hmm.

   6. DMDominic McGregor7:35

      Um, we had, there was this kind of talk of Social Chain, we came up with the name pretty early on when we still at Wall Park, but-

   7. CWChris Williamson7:42

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DMDominic McGregor7:42

      ... it didn't mean anything.

   9. CWChris Williamson7:43

      Yeah.

   10. DMDominic McGregor7:44

       Um, we were like, this is like Social Chain, so there's a chain of pages, you know, this, this is what it is, it's our social chain, it's what's driving people to Wall Park. And then we went to Thailand, uh, went to Brazil, New York, did a, you know, a bit of living.

   11. CWChris Williamson7:57

       Not bad fact-finding, that.

   12. DMDominic McGregor7:58

       No, not bad, no, we were, we were doing up our market research. (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson8:02

       (laughs)

   14. DMDominic McGregor8:02

       21, 20, we did actually spend some time in Silicon Valley doing some consulting-

   15. CWChris Williamson8:05

       Actually did do some work.

   16. DMDominic McGregor8:06

       Yeah, we did do some work, yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson8:07

       (laughs)

   18. DMDominic McGregor8:07

       Uh, we went to the World Cup in Brazil, which was cool.

   19. CWChris Williamson8:10

       That's sick.

   20. DMDominic McGregor8:10

       That was really good, yeah. Um, but I thought it was gonna be full of girls, but it was the World Cup and it was just men-

   21. CWChris Williamson8:16

       Full of blokes.

   22. DMDominic McGregor8:17

       ... full of blokes everywhere.

   23. CWChris Williamson8:17

       Yeah.

   24. DMDominic McGregor8:17

       Argentinians everywhere.

   25. CWChris Williamson8:19

       (laughs)

   26. DMDominic McGregor8:19

       Which was cool, but-

   27. CWChris Williamson8:20

       Yeah. Nice for a while, but-

   28. DMDominic McGregor8:21

       ... was when you're 20, when you're 21 and you go to Brazil for the first time, you're expecting like-

   29. CWChris Williamson8:25

       Something different.

   30. DMDominic McGregor8:26

       Yeah.
6. 8:57 – 11:09

   Signature campaigns and engineered virality (billboards, stunts, Facebook Live)

   1. CWChris Williamson8:57

      That's crazy. And to get from there to now, accessing 400 million people, um, can you think of a top three favorite campaigns that you guys have done?

   2. DMDominic McGregor9:09

      Hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson9:09

      Anything that springs to mind that people might not...

   4. DMDominic McGregor9:11

      Yeah. We did, um, the one, the one most people know is we did a campaign, um, where we hijacked a billboard in Manchester and put Welcome to Zlatan when Zlatan Ibrahimović signed for Man United.

   5. CWChris Williamson9:24

      Yeah.

   6. DMDominic McGregor9:24

      That was pretty well known. Uh, but we've done some really cool things in, um, the stuff I like that we've done is a little bit more underground.

   7. CWChris Williamson9:31

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DMDominic McGregor9:31

      So we've done some really cool campaigns with Sky Bet, um, where we filmed two grands doing, taking part in Super 6, which was pretty cool.

   9. CWChris Williamson9:41

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DMDominic McGregor9:41

       And it's kind of shown the e- use case of the app. Um, and then I think, you know, go back to the crazy side of things, we blew up a VW Beetle, super dry, on Halloween.

   11. CWChris Williamson9:51

       Right.

   12. DMDominic McGregor9:51

       Which was pretty fun.

   13. CWChris Williamson9:51

       Was that on Facebook Live or something?

   14. DMDominic McGregor9:53

       Yeah, Facebook Live, yeah, yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson9:54

       Was that one of the ones where press fire to do it?

   16. DMDominic McGregor9:56

       Yeah, yeah, press fire.

   17. CWChris Williamson9:57

       Okay.

   18. DMDominic McGregor9:57

       Yeah. Did you see it?

   19. CWChris Williamson9:58

       Um, I saw, I th- did you guys do the one, was it Pretty Little Thing?

   20. DMDominic McGregor10:02

       Yep.

   21. CWChris Williamson10:02

       Yeah. Which was like a, was that maybe a balloon?

   22. DMDominic McGregor10:04

       Yeah, yeah, we did a balloon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson10:05

       Um-

   24. DMDominic McGregor10:06

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson10:06

       ... so I've seen, I saw the one for that.

   26. DMDominic McGregor10:08

       Yeah, we blew, we've blown a couple of things up.

   27. CWChris Williamson10:09

       And that's like one of the most highly engaged-

   28. DMDominic McGregor10:11

       Engaged live streams, yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson10:13

       ... ever.

   30. DMDominic McGregor10:13

       Yeah, 2.5 million views, about a million comments.
7. 11:09 – 13:09

   Personal branding and “audit your social”: using platforms intentionally

   1. CWChris Williamson11:09

      So everyone that's listening will use social media to some extent.

   2. DMDominic McGregor11:12

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson11:12

      And a lot of people will use it by, in one form or another, to either raise their profile, which is, uh, brings them some sort of equity back.

   4. DMDominic McGregor11:19

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson11:19

      Um, or, like myself, it becomes kind of a little bit more of a brand and is directly associated with what your company's doing.

   6. DMDominic McGregor11:25

      Yep.

   7. CWChris Williamson11:26

      Are there any, are there any principles that you think that you've found out that people should be using on social media? Because it's very easy to get caught up-

   8. DMDominic McGregor11:34

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson11:34

      ... and we'll go into this in a second, it's very easy to get caught up and distracted on social media 'cause that's the purpose of it.

   10. DMDominic McGregor11:39

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson11:39

       But in terms of trying to use it effectively, I mean, I'm gonna guess adding, uh, producing content that adds value, whether it's personally or commercially?

   12. DMDominic McGregor11:48

       Yeah. I think, I think, um, what you touched on there in terms of like personal branding.

   13. CWChris Williamson11:51

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DMDominic McGregor11:52

       Everyone's really got to understand where social fits into their life. Um, it's like a shop window for who you are as a person, so you really need to, um, if you want to, some people don't want to do this, but if you want to, like, use it to your advantage-

   15. CWChris Williamson12:03

       Mm-hmm.

   16. DMDominic McGregor12:04

       ... um, and really like showcase you as an individual or, you know, what you're trying to achieve in your life and your journey, you've got to just think about what you want it to, how you want it to come across.

   17. CWChris Williamson12:12

       Mm-hmm.

   18. DMDominic McGregor12:12

       And I think, uh, some people are on the other side of the coin, they just wanna use it to-

   19. CWChris Williamson12:16

       ... in touch with our friends and stuff like that.

   20. DMDominic McGregor12:18

       Keeping, keeping friends, yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson12:18

       But yeah, my, my, my mum does it. She's got one friend on Facebook and it's me.

   22. DMDominic McGregor12:21

       Is it? Oh.

   23. CWChris Williamson12:22

       And she, she, like, um, will message backwards and forwards and send videos.

   24. DMDominic McGregor12:26

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson12:26

       And the usage of it'll be really heavy-

   26. DMDominic McGregor12:28

       But it's-

   27. CWChris Williamson12:28

       ... but incredibly narrow. (laughs)

   28. DMDominic McGregor12:30

       Yeah. My gran's the same, she's got 30, like, 30 friends and it's just all her family.

   29. CWChris Williamson12:33

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DMDominic McGregor12:34

       But every time I post anything, I get like 10 likes because I've got my mum, my dad, my gran, my grandad, my aunt. It's like...
8. 13:09 – 16:47

   The ethics of attention: dopamine design, addiction, and youth vulnerability

   1. CWChris Williamson13:09

      No, I, I, I agree. Um, so I think one of the things that I wanna talk about today is the ethical use of time on social media.

   2. DMDominic McGregor13:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson13:18

      Um, it's, as far as I'm concerned, an emerging topic at the moment.

   4. DMDominic McGregor13:22

      Yep.

   5. CWChris Williamson13:22

      I wouldn't say that it's been tremendously widespread yet. Um, but Sam Harris and a guy called Tristan Harris who was product philosopher at Google did a really famous podcast about three months ago. You can find it on Sam Harris's podcast, Waking Up, on iTunes, if you wanna have a listen yourself, and timewellspent.com is Tristan Harris's website. And on that, what he discusses is the cognitive biases that are being leveraged by apps and-

   6. DMDominic McGregor13:50

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson13:50

      ... by, um, developers in order to keep people's time on site.

   8. DMDominic McGregor13:55

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson13:55

      And they say that there's only so many hours in the day and that YouTube is competing with Facebook, is competing with Netflix, is competing with everything-

   10. DMDominic McGregor14:03

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson14:04

       ... to try and maximize the time on site. So, I wanted to ask yourself, as someone who is driving engaging content online, which means that people's time on site and time on screen will be increased, do you... have you got any concerns about this?

   12. DMDominic McGregor14:18

       Yeah, I think taking a step back also is we are, um, very, as, is it humans or animals? So we are very influenced by, like, social and you can see it on games like Candy Crush, the way they reward the kind of dopamine levels with their hits and their, like, re- you know. All that is designed towards keeping people addicted. Um, I am under the strong belief that, um, from two sides of the coin really. As a publisher, people always consume content. It's always been the same. We've had the same issues with, with TV to an extent. Not more of the, um, addiction side of things but with the kind of, um... I guess you have got small population with TV, you know, you do find people who are very sedimentary because they're always on watching TV.

   13. CWChris Williamson15:08

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DMDominic McGregor15:08

       Um, but I think with what is the important thing about social is, um, it's the age of people again. The younger generation, these people are a lot more highly influenced. They're not as developed, they're not as, um, assured of themselves let alone th- their surroundings. So yes, I do feel kind of, um, responsible in that instance and I think more can be done to educate young people. But again, it's very difficult because they're in... they're young.

   15. CWChris Williamson15:35

       Mm-hmm.

   16. DMDominic McGregor15:36

       They've got a lot of things on the plate already.

   17. CWChris Williamson15:37

       It's interesting because you guys have got, you've got the access.

   18. DMDominic McGregor15:40

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson15:40

       Which is, from knowing what the company is about, I'd definitely say that everybody here, as far as I'm aware, in the company culture is an altruistic one.

   20. DMDominic McGregor15:49

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson15:49

       Now, if that, um, sense of genuinely caring about people's wellbeing is to the contrary of what advertisers want, I guess therein may lie a little bit more of a difficulty. But certainly for me, it doesn't feel like coming into... the guys who make global trends and social media's office, it doesn't feel like I'm stepping into some underworld cabal-

   22. DMDominic McGregor16:12

       Yeah. Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson16:12

       ... of like people trying to desperately claw at young kids' time-

   24. DMDominic McGregor16:16

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson16:16

       ... and make them feel incredibly self-conscious online and, like, desperate for likes and things like that. There's definitely an argument to be made I think that, you know, Student Problems was born of a genuine care or a genuine interest in the topic.

   26. DMDominic McGregor16:33

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson16:33

       Could you argue now that that's been monetized and is being used as a commercial vehicle? But the argument is that you're still making content that's even better and is still providing the same, the same end result for users.

   28. DMDominic McGregor16:46

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson16:46

       Do you know what I mean?

9. 16:47 – 19:38

   Mental health responsibility and the damage of highlight-reel culture

   1. DMDominic McGregor16:47

      Completely. And I think, um, with that comes massive responsibilities on the other side for us to be able to educate people. So we've recently done a, um, documentary around mental health on Student Problems where we've been... gone to Bristol University-

   2. CWChris Williamson17:01

      Mm-hmm.

   3. DMDominic McGregor17:01

      ... where last year there was eight suicides.

   4. CWChris Williamson17:04

      Wow.

   5. DMDominic McGregor17:04

      Like an ap-... yeah, like, a very high number of suicides.

   6. CWChris Williamson17:08

      It's the number one, number one killer of men under 40.

   7. DMDominic McGregor17:11

      Yep. It's-

   8. CWChris Williamson17:12

      Which is an, an absolutely terrifying topic.

   9. DMDominic McGregor17:15

      Yep.

   10. CWChris Williamson17:15

       But yeah.

   11. DMDominic McGregor17:16

       So, and you go to university, it's meant to be the best four years of your life and, you know, a lot of people, a lot of, you know, students are wanting to commit suicide. So we, we have a responsibility from that side of the fence to, yes, provide content which is entertaining and relevant but also to act as the voice of that generation, where we educate them on life, on the topics that they really need to know about as well.

   12. CWChris Williamson17:40

       Mm-hmm.

   13. DMDominic McGregor17:40

       So, um, yeah, we feel like we've... I've, I've started to feel that responsibility a lot more. Um-

   14. CWChris Williamson17:46

       I think the, the fact is that it's emerging, right?

   15. DMDominic McGregor17:48

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson17:49

       You don't know... it's like when a new drug comes out onto the market, we don't know the side effects of it until it's been in circulation for a while.

   17. DMDominic McGregor17:54

       Sure, yep.

   18. CWChris Williamson17:55

       And the same thing with social media that we only realized what it was and we st- it's still emerging is what actually social media is and how all of the different platforms work, before you then move on to tech addictions.

   19. DMDominic McGregor18:07

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson18:08

       And...

   21. DMDominic McGregor18:09

       And everyone's different though as well, everyone has a different relationship with it.

   22. CWChris Williamson18:12

       Absolutely.

   23. DMDominic McGregor18:12

       So it's very difficult to, um, diagnose anyone.

   24. CWChris Williamson18:16

       For sure.

   25. DMDominic McGregor18:16

       So it's like-... and I guess if you ask someone what their relationship is, then they're always gonna tell you it's healthy. They're not gonna really, like... Because the thing is, you know, Instagram is a highlight reel. You know, you go on Instagram and you've got all your friends posting about being on holidays, so you get the feeling that you're, um, sat there at work not doing anything, so that, that... Yes, it's social media, but it has a bigger impact on your life than just the actual addiction to the phone or to the, the, you know, that side of things. It has a longer lasting effect, so.

   26. CWChris Williamson18:46

       It's interesting because especially with Instagram, I read this quote online which I thought was really timely, and it basically said that Instagram specifically, you compare the best of everyone else's life with the worst of yours.

   27. DMDominic McGregor18:57

       Yeah. Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson18:58

       Because you view your own life through a lens of, uh, complete understanding of all of your failings.

   29. DMDominic McGregor19:05

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson19:05

       You see, you see the blooper reel and that's what sticks.
10. 19:38 – 22:56

    Influencer ethics: livelihoods vs accountability and unrealistic expectations

    1. DMDominic McGregor19:38

       And it is funny, in, in this space, I think that influencers need to be more accountable because they're creating an unrealistic expectation of life.

    2. CWChris Williamson19:45

       Mm-hmm.

    3. DMDominic McGregor19:45

       Which is more detrimental than us posting videos of cheese-

    4. CWChris Williamson19:51

       No. I agree.

    5. DMDominic McGregor19:51

       ... on our page. So I think that's, that's where I think a bigger issue lies, is the responsibility of ad- of influencers to, to really, like, you know ... They're the, they're the ones that are damaging it because they're, they're showing an unrealistic lifestyle.

    6. CWChris Williamson20:04

       Well, theirs is more, if you're an influencer, it's a lot more of a surreptitious delivery of the brand message.

    7. DMDominic McGregor20:10

       Yep.

    8. CWChris Williamson20:11

       Because it, it comes about irrelevant of whether which brand is tagged in your outfits, or what supplement's at the front of your training session, or who it is that's paid for the video production or the photo to be taken.

    9. DMDominic McGregor20:22

       Yep.

    10. CWChris Williamson20:22

        People don't see that. They see, "Look at the condition of this particular guy, look at the arse on this particular girl, look at how exciting the holiday is," or, "She's on a boat again," or ...

    11. DMDominic McGregor20:31

        Yeah. And they, and they always all say, um, through their experiences and that they've had hard times when a lot of them probably haven't. They may, I'm maybe doing an injustice but some of them probably have, but they're ... I think working influencers have got quite an easy life.

    12. CWChris Williamson20:43

        Mm-hmm.

    13. DMDominic McGregor20:44

        They don't know what stress is, they don't know what strain is, and they, they're painting an unrealistic expectation to young people.

    14. CWChris Williamson20:48

        So there's maybe ... there needs to be a code of ethics that influencers should be thinking about using when they're putting stuff online?

    15. DMDominic McGregor20:57

        Yeah. I think, I think so, yeah. I think, um, it would be interesting to see the difference between someone who does follow influencers and someone who doesn't follow any influencers.

    16. CWChris Williamson21:06

        Absolutely.

    17. DMDominic McGregor21:06

        And let them judge things like a meal out, or a holiday, or like an outfit. Because if a girl ... I know it's a lot more in the female space because they are the ones that, um ... Not to sound sexist or anything, but they are, uh, more of users of social media for certain types of things.

    18. CWChris Williamson21:25

        I'm gonna guess you're, you're exactly in the position to know what the stats are on that as well.

    19. DMDominic McGregor21:29

        Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I don't have them to hand but they're much more avid users and then, uh, if you compared a girl who doesn't follow any influencers versus someone who does follow influencers, and you ask them their 10 favorite brands, you'd probably get very different answers.

    20. CWChris Williamson21:42

        I agree. And then probably satisfaction and, um, like you say, you're going out for a meal.

    21. DMDominic McGregor21:46

        Yep.

    22. CWChris Williamson21:47

        And if you've previously in the day seen that someone was at Blue Marlin Dubai-

    23. DMDominic McGregor21:51

        Yeah.

    24. CWChris Williamson21:51

        ... one of your favorite influencers at Blue Marlin Dubai having teriyaki salmon and black cod and surrounded by million pound yachts, and then you've gone out f- on Valentine's Day to somewhere that doesn't fulfill that expectation, you're right, it's, um-

    25. DMDominic McGregor22:06

        Yeah.

    26. CWChris Williamson22:06

        ... it's not, not a tremendously positive environment at times, is it?

    27. DMDominic McGregor22:09

        Yeah. And these are people you will never meet. You'll never meet.

    28. CWChris Williamson22:12

        Mm-hmm.

    29. DMDominic McGregor22:13

        And that's th- what they're making you feel. It's ruining relationships, it's ruining friendships, it's ruining everything.

    30. CWChris Williamson22:20

        Mm-hmm.
11. 22:56 – 27:57

    Dominic’s substance spiral: success, stress, masking, and losing control

    1. CWChris Williamson22:56

       So moving on to another topic that both of us are really passionate about.

    2. DMDominic McGregor23:00

       (clears throat)

    3. CWChris Williamson23:00

       Um, I want to talk about your problem with substances that you've had over the years.

    4. DMDominic McGregor23:04

       Yep.

    5. CWChris Williamson23:05

       Could you give us a bit of background on that please?

    6. DMDominic McGregor23:06

       Yeah. It's always a fun story to remember. (laughs)

    7. CWChris Williamson23:10

       (laughs)

    8. DMDominic McGregor23:11

       Um, yeah. I, I guess, I guess my life started like, same as anyone elses. You know, you go to university, you spend three nights a week drunk, it's life. Um-

    9. CWChris Williamson23:18

       Edinburgh's a good night, aren't they? Why, why, why not to really, really-

    10. DMDominic McGregor23:20

        It's really a good night. Why Not Monday. That was my mon-

    11. CWChris Williamson23:22

        (laughs)

    12. DMDominic McGregor23:22

        I used to finish football training at 10:00 and go straight to Why Not.

    13. CWChris Williamson23:24

        Shout out Jay Glass.

    14. DMDominic McGregor23:25

        (laughs) And, um, the Mack twins.

    15. CWChris Williamson23:29

        Yep.

    16. DMDominic McGregor23:29

        Yeah.

    17. CWChris Williamson23:29

        Never mind.

    18. DMDominic McGregor23:30

        They'll, they'll be watching.

    19. CWChris Williamson23:31

        They're still, they're still doing it, still killing it. Like, uh, Why Not. If anyone's going to Edinburgh, Why Not Nightclub. What, eight years in a row I think it's won like Best Pub in Edinburgh.

    20. DMDominic McGregor23:38

        Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    21. CWChris Williamson23:38

        It kills it.

    22. DMDominic McGregor23:38

        Monday nights.

    23. CWChris Williamson23:39

        It's the one.

    24. DMDominic McGregor23:40

        It's got, um, they were telling me it's a complete redesign.

    25. CWChris Williamson23:43

        Yeah. It's got an LED, th- room two's LED-

    26. DMDominic McGregor23:46

        Yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson23:46

        ... ceiling, LED walls, it's fantastic.

    28. DMDominic McGregor23:47

        (laughs)

    29. CWChris Williamson23:47

        (laughs) Anyway, so.

    30. DMDominic McGregor23:48

        Um, so yeah, I, I lived a normal life. Um, and I would describe myself, the reason I think Student Problems was successful is because I was just your average student. I was completely straight middle of the line, you know, I've not got a privileged background, I'm not, I'm not from ... I've got a very middle, middle of the road, you know, I can relate.
12. 27:57 – 41:19

    Rock bottom moments and the decision to quit drinking for good

    1. DMDominic McGregor27:57

       my reward for a hard day. I'd have a glass of wine and it got to a point where the minute alcohol passed my lips, it would be a bottle, it'd be two bottles, it wouldn't stop. Yep. And that would be on a weekday. And I'd get up and I'd go... And a couple of things happened that really hit me hard. Um, so it was Thursday night, we went to a neighborhood opening here. Mm-hmm. It was a good night. Yeah. Um, I got absolutely off my head. Um, and it was a Thursday. And I go home and I fall down the hill at my house and break my ankle. And so Wednesday, Wednes- then it's a Friday morning and I'm in hospital, sat, sat there in A&E, shit's going on at work, I'm like, "What the hell am I doing this?" Yep. "What the fuck am I doing this for?" Um, that's, that was like strike one. Strike... And then, like, strike two, um, well, it was my birthday. Right. So I'm 23. Mm-hmm. My birthday, I go out, uh, with everyone, it's great. It's gonna be a heavy one. Heavy one, obviously. Yep. But the day afterwards, which is my actual birthday, that's when I out. I spent my, my 23rd birthday locked in a dark room watching a movie. Hating life. Hating life. Everyone was like, "Let's go for a meal, it's your birthday. Come on, let's go." I'm just, "No, I'm gonna stay here." I spent a whole day in a dark room on my birthday. Yep. And I'm thinking about everything, thinking about my life. And that's when I gave up substances. I was like, "Okay, it's drugs. It has to be drugs, you know. I'm... I can't, I can't be like this on weekends. This is ruining my... This is ru-" So I think, "You know, I'll be fine." So I do, I do six month- six weeks without any, any drugs. And then, uh- But still drinking? Still drinking, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I go to the races and have a great day, honestly, a really good day. I'm a little bit more happy, um, but I come back home at like 6:00 PM, you know, o- off my head. Yep. I'd been invited there by a friend in a sponsor's box, so I've got limited alcohol. All day. All day. (laughs) And it's a nice day, and I've still got the problem where if I, I touch alcohol, I won't stop drinking. I'll always- Yep. I'll always have one in my hand. And, um, I... My behavior that day was, um, I got thrown out of Piccolinos in Old Village for stealing a bottle of wine from someone's table and shouting abuse at people. Wow. It was... It was a, a different person. Yeah. And, um, I said some mean things to, some ha- some bad things to a good friend of mine. Yep. And it was the first time I'd ever hurt somebody else. Yep. And the minute I hurt somebody else, I knew I needed to stop because I'm... That's not me. Yep. I could deal with hurting myself. I was beating myself up- Mm-hmm. ... and that I enjoyed that a little bit because it was punishing myself. A catharsis almost? Yeah. But I couldn't deal with that hurting somebody else.... I would, I would, I only got run over by a car once, you know, a couple of other things, and I really, really jumped when I was drunk. But I could deal with that because it was me.

    2. CWChris Williamson30:42

       It's you.

    3. DMDominic McGregor30:42

       It was me. But the minute it moved into me doing damage to someone I cared about, um, I knew I had to stop. And then I woke up that day, had a very, very frank conversation with Steve, who wasn't there that day, but heard about it, and I said that "I'm gonna stop. I'm not gonna drink again."

    4. CWChris Williamson31:01

       Mm-hmm.

    5. DMDominic McGregor31:02

       "Never gonna drink again."

    6. CWChris Williamson31:03

       So how long sober are you now?

    7. DMDominic McGregor31:07

       Um, 20 months.

    8. CWChris Williamson31:08

       20 months?

    9. DMDominic McGregor31:09

       20 months, yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson31:10

        From that day?

    11. DMDominic McGregor31:11

        From that day. Never gone back.

    12. CWChris Williamson31:12

        Cold turkey?

    13. DMDominic McGregor31:13

        Cold turkey.

    14. CWChris Williamson31:14

        And what was it like the first couple of weeks?

    15. DMDominic McGregor31:18

        It's tough, because you change your life. It's not, it's not because of the alcohol. The first ... I always think this is funny, the first weekend I woke up hungover.

    16. CWChris Williamson31:26

        (laughs)

    17. DMDominic McGregor31:26

        I didn't go out ... My body, my body would take, needs to recover is ... So it was, it's the problem with binge drinking, your body gets used to this shock in its system every five days.

    18. CWChris Williamson31:37

        Yup.

    19. DMDominic McGregor31:37

        You know, it's, um, it's a functioning organism. It's used to repetitiveness.

    20. CWChris Williamson31:41

        Yeah.

    21. DMDominic McGregor31:42

        It, I woke up, I woke up hungover because my body was, it goes dehydrated because it was probably producing more, um, things in the liver, pancreas, to break down the alcohol, and it-

    22. CWChris Williamson31:51

        It wasn't there.

    23. DMDominic McGregor31:52

        ... it wasn't there.

    24. CWChris Williamson31:53

        (laughs)

    25. DMDominic McGregor31:53

        It's just like, "What? You all right, Dom?"

    26. CWChris Williamson31:54

        "What's going on?"

    27. DMDominic McGregor31:55

        "What's going on?"

    28. CWChris Williamson31:55

        "Yeah, we need some wine."

    29. DMDominic McGregor31:56

        "Yeah, we need some wine." Um, so that was weird. So the first weekend I felt hungover. So you don't, I didn't feel the benefits. It wasn't until ... And this is my problem with dry, dry January, you don't feel the benefits until like Week 6.

    30. CWChris Williamson32:07

        Yup.
13. 41:19 – 1:00:44

    What sobriety changed: time, weight loss, running, and rebuilding identity

    1. DMDominic McGregor41:19

       God, what hasn't it done? Um, lot, I've lost about three and a half stone.

    2. CWChris Williamson41:25

       Oh (laughs) .

    3. DMDominic McGregor41:25

       Have you seen a picture? Have you seen a picture?

    4. CWChris Williamson41:26

       No (laughs) .

    5. DMDominic McGregor41:27

       I'll show you one. I got up.

    6. CWChris Williamson41:28

       I'll put it up on the screen.

    7. DMDominic McGregor41:29

       I'll put it up on the screen but this is, this is old.

    8. CWChris Williamson41:32

       Three and a half stone, so that's like, what, like, 18 kilos? 15 kilos? Something like that.

    9. DMDominic McGregor41:36

       21.

    10. CWChris Williamson41:37

        21 kilos?

    11. DMDominic McGregor41:38

        Yeah. I was, uh, so that, that's me.

    12. CWChris Williamson41:43

        Uh-huh.

    13. DMDominic McGregor41:43

        That's me.

    14. CWChris Williamson41:44

        Oh wow, that photo looks like it's been stretched.

    15. DMDominic McGregor41:48

        Yeah.

    16. CWChris Williamson41:48

        That photo looks like it's been stretched in widescreen.

    17. DMDominic McGregor41:50

        And then-

    18. CWChris Williamson41:50

        But it's not, you're just massive.

    19. DMDominic McGregor41:52

        Just massive.

    20. CWChris Williamson41:52

        (laughs)

    21. DMDominic McGregor41:52

        And I'll show you, I'll show you from side profile.

    22. CWChris Williamson41:54

        (laughs)

    23. DMDominic McGregor41:56

        So this was me.

    24. CWChris Williamson41:57

        You're completely spherical.

    25. DMDominic McGregor41:58

        I know. I know. Bad, isn't it?

    26. CWChris Williamson42:02

        It's crazy. Absolutely crazy.

    27. DMDominic McGregor42:07

        And that one there.

    28. CWChris Williamson42:09

        Oh, wow. Yeah, that's, um, that's a different guy to the one that I'm looking at at the moment. Yeah. (laughs) That's a different shaped face.

    29. DMDominic McGregor42:17

        Different shaped face.

    30. CWChris Williamson42:17

        You've got a completely round face.
14. 1:00:44 – 1:04:49

    Long-term thinking: values, social norms, and why alcohol doesn’t fit anymore

    1. CWChris Williamson1:00:44

       That's a calling bell. So here's the- here's the next point, um, we did this discussion once I completed the six months sober-

    2. DMDominic McGregor1:00:50

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:00:51

       ... um, with a guy called James Bailey who is from Basel.And he brought up this really, really interesting point, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

    4. DMDominic McGregor1:00:58

       Yep.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:00:58

       He said that curing an addiction doesn't involve going cold turkey, it involves the reintroduction of the substance on your terms.

    6. DMDominic McGregor1:01:05

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:01:06

       So, can you ever see yourself in the either short, medium or long-term, reintroducing or attempting to reintroduce alcohol?

    8. DMDominic McGregor1:01:17

       If you can tell me one reason- reason why. If anyone can tell me the one reason why-

    9. CWChris Williamson1:01:22

       Be-

    10. DMDominic McGregor1:01:22

        ... I should have it in my body.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:01:23

        Okay. So, because alcohol and other substances-

    12. DMDominic McGregor1:01:27

        Yep.

    13. CWChris Williamson1:01:27

        ... are as much of a part of the experience of life as anything else is.

    14. DMDominic McGregor1:01:31

        Yep.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:01:32

        Now, you could say, as I do to people when they ask about why am I not drinking as much, "M- my main reason is, I've served my time."

    16. DMDominic McGregor1:01:39

        Yeah.

    17. CWChris Williamson1:01:39

        Like, the same way you do-

    18. DMDominic McGregor1:01:41

        Yep.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:01:41

        ... you- you- you, um, military service.

    20. DMDominic McGregor1:01:43

        Yep.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:01:43

        I'm like, "I've served my time partying, I did a decade of partying-

    22. DMDominic McGregor1:01:46

        Yep.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:01:46

        ... and right now I don't need to." But you could argue that by not reintroducing alcohol, or by not using alcohol, that again, you're now living in limit- a limited "limited" life.

    24. DMDominic McGregor1:01:59

        Yep.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:01:59

        On one side, 'cause, don't get it wrong, like, I've had some fucking wicked nights absolutely out of my tree. Like, I have had some really, really fun times.

    26. DMDominic McGregor1:02:06

        Yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:02:06

        And that's not to, i- i- I absolutely would not have been able to achieve those nights out sober.

    28. DMDominic McGregor1:02:12

        Yeah, yeah.

    29. CWChris Williamson1:02:12

        There's an element of the night, like we can sing the praises of sobriety all we want, but there's some nights out that just get going because everyone's blitzed.

    30. DMDominic McGregor1:02:22

        Yeah, yeah, com- completely. And I think, um, definitely, definitely not for the very foreseeable future.

Episode duration: 1:04:49