Finding Your Why - Diren Kartal | Modern Wisdom Podcast 260

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Listen, if you don't…

   1. DKDiren Kartal0:00

      Listen, if you don't travel, if you don't meet different people, if you don't see different cultures, your knowledge isn't gonna be great about what the f-- is happening in the world, or what other people are like. So, then what happens? You have a kid. What the f-- are you gonna teach that kid? What are you gonna teach that kid? You- what have you seen? You know, like, you live in England, you got a British passport. You've got the luxury to travel the world, and you're telling me you're not gonna take advantage of that? It's crazy. I know people, yeah, (laughs) in Turkey that would kill for a British passport just so they can travel. (wind blowing sound)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:33

      Diran Bloody Kartel, how are you, my friend?

   3. DKDiren Kartal0:38

      I'm excited to be here, man. I'm not gonna lie. I was disappointed you didn't have a studio lined up for me in Dubai, but I don't wanna talk about that. (laughs)

   4. CWChris Williamson0:44

      (laughs) A little bit of a different environment to the last time that we were together on a boat outside the Burj al-Arab.

   5. DKDiren Kartal0:52

      Bro, how good was that day? I was hanging. I was hanging, but it was such a good day, man. It's just like vitamin D, man. It's good for everything. It- it- it- it solves all problems.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:05

      That's one hell of a wake-up call. You get up at, finally sort of surface, half past 10 in the morning, and you've got a couple of WhatsApps saying, "You have 45 minutes to get ready. I need to see you down at the marina because we're getting on a boat for the next five hours."

   7. DKDiren Kartal1:18

      Bruv, I- yeah, I got the same effect. I didn't- I didn't know. I was like, "Yeah, we're going here, we're meeting." "With who?" "With the boys, with the guys you know." And those guys are crazy, man. They- those guys can drink for days, and I- I'm just- I'm just such a lightweight that, like... Which I'm proud of, by the way. Everyone's like, "Oh, you're a lightweight." I'm like, I'm proud of it. I'm like, "Oh, you're a lightweight." I'm like, "Yeah, bro, so what have you achieved by saying that? I don't care."

   8. CWChris Williamson1:41

      (laughs)

   9. DKDiren Kartal1:41

      But it was- it was a great time. It was a great time. Those lads are funny people.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:45

       Yeah, they are, man. It's- when you get that group of people together, it's a- it's a recipe for chaos. But today, I wanted to talk about motivation. See, we're approaching a new year. People are gonna be making resolutions, wanting to change their routines. This is a lot of what you do with your work. Might- people might even be looking to change their lives, you know, create the foundations upon which their new life is going to be built. What are the principles that you give your clients when they want to make big changes in their lives?

   11. DKDiren Kartal2:11

       So I think one thing is, um, a lot of people come to me for fitness and nutrition, right? 'Cause in- in essence, I'm a personal trainer. But what I've realized is the program that I do and the way I train people and do things with my clients, I've actually realized it affects their, uh, normal life as well as their health, 'cause in essence, when you look after your health, uh, other things around your life actually become a lot better. And I think one of the key things about trying to keep my clients motivated is trying to get them to do something that they really enjoy, which I think is one of the biggest issues. People feel like you need to be consistently struggling to be- to achieve, whether it's a fitness goal, whether it's whatever you want to do in life, you know? And I- and I try to make what they see a big problem, a small one, 'cause I feel like when we look at problems as a small issue, and look at solving them, the stress about being motivated or whatever it is you're trying to solve kind of goes away. Does that- does that make sense? Do you get what I'm trying to say there?

   12. CWChris Williamson3:14

       Yeah, man. So talk me through. Someone comes to you and they say, "Hey coach, I'm wanting to do X. I really want to get a black belt in jujitsu. I really want to lose 50 pounds or 20 pounds or get in shape for whatever it might be, but I don't really feel that motivated to do it." Should they just drop it?

   13. DKDiren Kartal3:35

       Yeah. No, of course not. They should, I think they should- they need to ask theirself like why they're doing it, you know, why they're doing it, what they wanna achieve from it, and what they need to understand is to achieve- s- to achieve whatever it is they want to achieve, there's certain steps that you need to go through. So if it's fitness, for example, you're coming to me for fitness, I'm gonna teach you the basic fundamentals. I'm gonna simplify it in such a way to you that you're not gonna see it as a problem, 'cause I think, at the moment, with coaches, with personal training, I feel like the delivery of the coach, chatting to someone is really important. So if I'm chatting to you, I need to be talking to you in a language that you're going to understand, you know? I need to make sure whatever I'm saying to you or how I'm delivering it to you, you need to be paying attention, you know? It's, um, it's one of those things where, 'cause I do like group coaching at the minute, um, each individual is very different, but if you look at it as a group, we all have very similar problems. It's just you kind of have to word things differently talking to different individuals.

   14. CWChris Williamson4:45

       What are the most common problems that you see coming up?

   15. DKDiren Kartal4:48

       Bro, at the minute, mental health, man. Like, at the minute, it's like a lot of mental health, and obviously with the pandemic, not being able to travel as freely as we want to, I see a lot of people worrying about tomorrow, worrying about what's going to happen instead of worrying about today. And I think one thing that we all need to do, is what I do, is I'm not worrying about tomorrow. I worried about this podcast today. What's the point of me worrying about it for a week, you know? Not that I was worrying about it, but like, what am I gonna over plan? What am I gonna- why should I worry about what I'm gonna talk about? I'm gonna talk about whatever feels good. I'm gonna deal with it however I'm feeling today, and I'm gonna take the challenge or whatever it is in a way that I feel, 'cause to be honest, I love doing podcasts, man. I love these conversations. I feel like it's one of the best ways I learn. You're probably the same. You're probably similar, right?

   16. CWChris Williamson5:46

       Absolutely, man. One of the things I learned from a guy called Andrew Tate, who is a son of a chess grandmaster, he's a kickboxing world champion, he lives in a basically a fortress in Romania, and he's a millionaire. He's like just a very, very eccentric fellow, and, um...... he has this concept where he says he has faith that future Andrew will s- will save more money. So, he'll go out and he'll buy a Bugatti because he knows that future Andrew will earn the money to pay for it. And this kind of unrelenting faith in the future version of you is something that I r- I've tried to cultivate a lot this year. And when you can fully lean into it and actually believe it, not just say it, but, you know, genuinely in the source code, it's written into your being, when you realize or when you hopefully, uh, take that in, it makes a very big difference. But I think if you don't have sufficient situations during which you have proven to yourself that you can actually perform, that you can make a promise and then deliver it to you, understandably you have low confidence. And if you have low confidence, you're going to be concerned about tomorrow because, well, uh, uh, yesterday I was concerned about today, and today I didn't do what I said I was going to do yesterday.

   17. DKDiren Kartal6:58

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson6:58

       So tomorrow, what if I say that... don't do the thing that I say I'm going to do today? And this is how we get into that cycle, right?

   19. DKDiren Kartal7:04

       But you know what it is? It's- it's that thing you're talking about is, um, the people that can't do that are too worried about being safe, right? The safety element. So for example, bruv, I was buying business class tickets with James Smith when I couldn't afford it. You know? Thinking, "Bruv, don't worry about it, Derren. Just buy this. Your money's gonna be... you're gonna have barely anything in your bank account, but future Derren is going to make that. Don't worry. Just get on that flight, get in that environment, get with those people. Don't worry about tomorrow. Worry about today, and then we'll deal with, uh, tomorrow then and we'll tackle that then." And it's... people need to take their mind... d- depending on what they want to achieve, like if you're happy with where you are, of course, like do what you need to do. But if you're not and if you want to achieve certain things, I feel like you need to take some risks. And the only time you perform is when you have no other fucking option. You know? If- if you have one chance, if you said you're gonna deliver something, right? And you have... the only opportunity for y- for you to have a good outcome of this is delivering whatever you're delivering well, you're gonna turn up, especially if you need the money, especially if you don't want to disappoint people, and especially if you, if you don't want to fail. I mean, the fear of failing kind of... like, it... you shouldn't be scared of failing, but it also gets you doing what you're supposed to do as well. Right?

   20. CWChris Williamson8:30

       Perfect example of that, I think James would admit when he started writing his first book, like he's not an author. I'm- I'm aware that he's a two-time Sunday Times bestseller now, but when he began writing his first book, he wasn't an author and he wasn't getting it ghostwritten, he was doing it himself. And as soon as you sign on the dotted line with HarperCollins, it's like, "Okay, they expect a book and holy shit, this needs to be done in the next nine months. I need to... I need to put some words to paper," and you will find a way to do it. I would say, in my experience, most people underestimate their capacities moving forward. Fewer people are overconfident than under-confident, in my experience.

   21. DKDiren Kartal9:15

       Bro, I think a lot of people, um, uh, i-... mate, your environment and who you're around is so important. Like it's so important. And the people that tend to, say, not make the leap with whatever it is that they want to do, it's kind of around people that says, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe don't risk it. No, no, no, no. Play it safe. Play it safe." Or they say it because they don't want you to be better than them, essentially. You know? I like to be around people that want the best for me, want me to win, you know? And I like to keep people around me that are like that, and I'm only around those sort of people because I feel like that's the only way to kind of push each other, uh, in a, in a... with the right pressure, as well as with the right people around you when... if you need something, you can ask and you know they're there to, um, either give you advice, either push you more or tell you that, "Oi, Derren, that content was shit, bruv. What are you doing?"

   22. CWChris Williamson10:13

       (laughs)

   23. DKDiren Kartal10:13

       You know? And I get that. Like, we have a group chat with the boys and we'll message in there and we'll be like, "Yo bro, oh yeah, I'm not gonna lie to you man, that was probably the worst thing I've ever seen in my life." You know? And then next thing you know, you've got four of your mates grilling you so hard about it, a bit of tough love. The next day, bang. 50,000 views on a video or whatever it is, you know? And I feel like it's just so important to have the right people around you, which I think most people don't have, if I'm being honest.

   24. CWChris Williamson10:40

       Do you think that's a byproduct of British culture?

   25. DKDiren Kartal10:43

       (sighs) Uh, you know what? I... it's hard for me to answer that because although I am in British culture, I'm very much like my dad who's a Kurd in Turkey, and I've always been around very, um... I've always been around Africans, um, uh, Jamaicans, Turks, Kurds, like I've been around British culture, but I've also been in the heart of London where it's so mixed that I- I'm not even sure what the answer to that question is, if that makes sense.

   26. CWChris Williamson11:15

       No, I know what you mean. I have a theory that I've been working on this, (laughs) this year that is... because geographically the UK is waterlogged, right?

   27. DKDiren Kartal11:24

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson11:24

       It gives people a very kind of insulated sense of life. I don't know... I- I can't speak for what it's like in France or in Germany or in America or anywhere else, but I know for a fact that there are tons and tons and tons of people that I went to state primary, state secondary, state college with who are-

   29. DKDiren Kartal11:41

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson11:41

       ... going to l- be born, live and die in the town that they came up in.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   No, I'm not. This…

   1. DKDiren Kartal15:00

      really important that you take advantage of traveling. And it's fun, man. It's, it's so much fun. W- w- you like, you like it, right? I mean, you're in Dubai.

   2. No, I'm not. This is me back home. I'm back home now, but, um, yeah, last-

   3. Oh, you're back home?

   4. Yeah, last year was-

   5. Oh.

   6. Last year was 12 countries. This year, even with the pandemic, did Athens for my birthday, Ibiza when you were there, and then, um, Dubai.

   7. Oh, yeah.

   8. Dubai when you were there as well. You know, this is- Yeah.

   9. ... something that I thought that was really funny. I was like, "Yeah, I'm trailblazing, you know, even during the pandemic, I'm being antifragile. I'm finding myself places that I can go to. I'm like, I'm so unique." Like this is, and then in each one of those places, you were there.

   10. (laughs)

   11. (laughs)

   12. And then, (laughs) and then Mike Thurston was there as well. And I was like, "Oh, maybe, maybe I'm a little bit less unique than I thought."

   13. But you know what, yeah? It's, um, isn't it amazing like, when you like, you get on a plane, there's something about, there's something about airports that really are just buzz. Are buzzing. I'm in the airport, I'm excited, I can't wait to open up my laptop, write an email, do a bit of work, maybe have a beer, like I'll, I'll buzz off it. Get on a flight, and then you get off, whether it's a hot country or not, you're somewhere different. It sparks so many different ideas that you can do for content, business, meeting new people, whatever it is. So many new opportunities. And initially doing that, I think it's... 'Cause I've, at 16, I went away and, uh, played football in Turkey, so I think from a young age I was very used to kind of traveling on my own. So, maybe I got rid of that fear early on. And I think some people might be worried because, "Oh shit, I'm 30 years old, I'm too late to travel, I'm too late to do this," when you're not, man. It's never too late to do-

   14. That's bullshit.

   15. ... whatever you want to do.

   16. Dave, Dave Driscoll is 42 and that man's still getting naked every morning and then going and running Wanderlust, uh, CrossFit.

   17. Bruv, he's in ridiculous shape for his age. You know, he's in ridiculous shape, mate. Such a good-looking guy as well, man. So much charisma, mate.

   18. He's a good human.

   19. So much charisma.

   20. Here's one thing that I-

   21. Yeah, yeah. He's a good man.

   22. ... that I realized after Dubai, I put it in my email that went out today. Um, you know Ollie Ollison, right? You're part of our little cabal of, of, of guys that Luke knows.

   23. Yeah, yeah.

   24. And he taught me about break point, which is in the SAS, they'll land somewhere and they'll either fight or sneak their way to an objective. Let's say that they're going to breach a room. And before they breach the room, they'll stack up outside of the door. So you can imagine like proper Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six shit. And they're stacked up outside-

   25. Yeah.

   26. ... of the door and they take a moment while they're there and they just breathe, reset, recalibrate. They take themselves through the plan that's gonna come up, and then they breach the room. And it's this interlude between two periods of chaos, right? So you've got two periods of intense-

   27. Yeah.

   28. ... action and you have this one period (breathes deeply) that just gives you a chance where you can move between the two. And I was in Dubai for three and a half weeks, which is the longest I've been anywhere, uh, in quite a while. Last year I did a road trip across America, which was a similar amount of time. Um, but I was still working while I was out in Dubai, I was still recording the show, still doing all of this stuff. And I came back and honestly last week was the best that my mindset's been in the UK in pretty much as long as I can remember. And obv- obviously I was curious as to why that was the case. I'm thinking like, "What have I done?" Was it that I got some sunshine? Was it just like-

   29. CWChris Williamson18:21

       ... defeating a little bit of seasonal affective disorder because it's so dark and cold and gray here. Uh-

   30. DKDiren Kartal18:26

       Yeah.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      did that, and I was like, "Hang on, I've lived my life for 31 years-"

   2. DKDiren Kartal30:03

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson30:04

      "... without knowing what the basis values that I live on, uh, are."

   4. DKDiren Kartal30:10

      (laughs) Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson30:10

      And then as soon as that happened, as soon as I realized what they are, curiosity, adventure, selfless development, excellence, and self-care-

   6. DKDiren Kartal30:16

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson30:16

      ... I'm like, "Okay, everything that I do in my life serves these five things, one of these five things or multiple within it." It made everything else easier, but because I was so caught up with the important tasks, sorry, with the urgent tasks, I never got to the important ones.... answering emails-

   8. DKDiren Kartal30:34

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson30:34

      ... spending too much time on my phone, just being busy responding to people, whatever it might be, just dicking about wasting time on stuff that doesn't properly move the needle.

   10. DKDiren Kartal30:42

       (clears throat) Yeah, that's right.

   11. CWChris Williamson30:43

       As soon as I did, the difference downstream from that is night and day.

   12. DKDiren Kartal30:49

       Mate, it's like, sm- small example is (slaps table) this. I've got three, four, I've got four fucking, not three, four, five, five notifications already, right, like, on my phone. I'm not gonna fucking reply to them until tomorrow, you know, 'cause I've got shit to do. And I feel like so many people feel the pressure of, "Oh, shit, I need to reply right now. I need to reply right now," and they lose valuable time, you know? Which is w- it's so important to really focus on yourself and what you're trying to do instead of, again, worrying about other people's problems, because a lot of the time people are just bitching (laughs) instead of getting things done, you know? I don't know. May-

   13. CWChris Williamson31:31

       I think, I think as well, if you, if you've got such a weak why, if your goal, your end goal that you want to achieve is so poorly defined and doesn't have any affinity to who you truly are, you're going to answer the text.

   14. DKDiren Kartal31:44

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson31:44

       Because why wouldn't you? You've got nothing better to do.

   16. DKDiren Kartal31:46

       True.

   17. CWChris Williamson31:47

       Whereas if you spend that time, "I'm going to explore before I exploit, I'm going to try new things, I'm going to work out something that I love, and then I'm going to really, really get into it, I'm going to-

   18. DKDiren Kartal31:56

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson31:56

       ... find out who I am, and then I'm going to-

   20. DKDiren Kartal31:59

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson31:59

       ... commit myself to being the best version of that person that I can be," if you do that-

   22. DKDiren Kartal32:03

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson32:03

       ... you're not even going to notice the messages.

   24. DKDiren Kartal32:06

       That's true.

   25. CWChris Williamson32:06

       You're not even, you're not even going to realize that the notifications have come. People are going to ask you to come to the shit that's important, but not the other stuff, because they know that you're on your path. And as well-

   26. DKDiren Kartal32:15

       Agreed.

   27. CWChris Williamson32:15

       ... as a final thing, you, I think that you're right that some people are nervous about, uh, not compromising what they do to keep other people happy, but think yourself, who is it that you're most gravitated towards? Who is it that has that real social gravitas, that renown? It's people who are on a journey, who have a mission. That's who compels you. Why do people listen to James? It's because-

   28. DKDiren Kartal32:40

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson32:40

       ... he is a guy who has his very, very, very clearly defined values, bright lines in the sand about what he will and won't accept, and he's-

   30. DKDiren Kartal32:47

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Running from your engagement?…

   1. DKDiren Kartal45:00

      It was... I was crying, I was upset. I couldn't even... I couldn't even say the words because I was talking to someone that was my best friend at the time, and I was talking to someone trying to tell them that their problem is not you... literally isn't you. It's just that I need to do certain things in my life to be happy in the long run, because I don't want to be that 40-year-old that's hiring prostitutes and then coming home and kissing my wife, bruv. I didn't want to be that guy, (laughs) you know? And the truth is, I would have been that guy. And... (laughs) I would have been that guy, you know? And I didn't want to be that. So when that conversation went down, it was kind of a conversation where she knew she kind of said it. And I was like, "I just need time to think. I need time to think. I need to go off." And I, I kind of ran away from my problems for a bit. That's where the me up 24/7 came up. I was doing like 30, for- 30,000, 40,000 steps a day not to go home. It was crazy.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:54

      Running from your engagement?

   3. DKDiren Kartal45:56

      Mate, running from my problems instead of tackling them, you know? And I was younger. I was o- I was younger, obviously, so I wasn't as... I was, I was, I wasn't as mature as I am now, so I would have had that conversation very differently now, but it doesn't matter. But, um, I went to Perth, saw some friends. I didn't have anyone around me that was close to me that could actually understand. The closest person was her and her family, y-

   4. CWChris Williamson46:20

      I want to go back just a little bit. So you're very insulated-

   5. DKDiren Kartal46:24

      If that's fine.

   6. CWChris Williamson46:24

      ... in this situation. You're in a relationship that you've decided is wrong. You don't necessarily have anyone or many people to support you in that decision. What got you over that inertia of getting to say the words? Because I think that is an element that a lot of people get stuck on. Maybe more guys to girls. They just see them as so fragile, even though they're not. They would be much... They would be absolutely fine dealing with it. They'd be upset, but they would get over it.

   7. DKDiren Kartal46:55

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson46:55

      But I think guys, speaking from personal experience, a lot of the time, I- I'll obsess over this, the breakup conversation because I'm so terrified that it's going to destroy them. First off, it's like incredibly egotistic to believe that you, (laughs) you leaving their life is going to absolutely destroy them for the rest of their lives. It's like they, they, they will get over you. It might take a little while, but they will get over you.

   9. DKDiren Kartal47:14

      (laughs) Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson47:15

       Um, a- a- and secondly, I just think it, it, it kind of... it stops us... it stopped me for a long time from having a conversation that I knew that I needed to have. So I'm fascinated as to you... how you, as someone who didn't have that support structure, found the courage to say it.

   11. DKDiren Kartal47:32

       Bro, it was like... Honestly, I was like crying. I couldn't breathe. Like (laughs) I couldn't breathe, bro. I was like... The words weren't coming out my mouth, (laughs) you know? It was mad. And like, she was sitting next to me and she was like, "It's okay, you can... It's okay, you can tell me." And I was like... And I told her. The worst bit is that, uh, that she's a good person, and I knew it would fucking hit her hard, and I knew... And, and I know a lot of people have anxiety and all that shit, and I knew what sort of outcome it would have for a certain amount of time, and I know how much it would affect her more so than me, you know? Don't get me wrong. And I'll say this loud and clear, I didn't get a boner for like three weeks, mate. I was so depressed about... (laughs) You know, my head was... my head was gone. My head was gone, you know? I couldn't function. I got to the stage where I was coming into PT and I couldn't even... I'm like... I've realized at one session, I was like, "I'm talking about my fucking problems to my client." I said, "I need a week off. I can't be doing this." I said, "This is bad service." (laughs) This is... Although my clients loved me and they, they kept asking me if you're... I'm okay, I just didn't want to be that guy. So when I had that conversation, going back to that-I told her, I said, "I d- I don't wanna get married. I don't wanna get married." She said, "Why?" I'm like, "Because it doesn't feel right. It just doesn't feel right." I'm like, "I'm sorry but, I, I wanna... There's a lot of things that I wanna accomplish in my life and the truth is, I can't act freely with having the pressure of paying a mortgage, worrying about someone being home alone, worrying about how, um, what they might think, what their family might think, you know? Worrying about, 'Ooh, let's all go on a family holiday, all the family. Oh, let's kids, let's go in a family...' I don't wanna fucking do that. I don't wanna do that, man. I don't wanna come and listen to... I don't wanna do that, you know?" I'm just telling everyone that's listening what a- most of the guys that wanna achieve something, that's what, that's what it is. They don't wanna go. So don't force people to do what they don't wanna do because it ends up in shambles (laughs) , you know? And I've said it like that and obviously... Listen, and any couple, any person that's listening to this, no matter how much you think that person loves you, no matter how much you think their decision, everything they do is for you, it's a fucking lie. Everything that most people do and what they should do is for their self, right? Me being there and being there for that person is gonna make them happy, so that's why they want me there, right? And you have to calculate that in your head. And yeah, it's maybe a bit egotistic but the truth is, you have a value which is why they like you so much. And if you're not getting that back, then it's a shit contract to be in. (laughs) You know what I mean? It's not-

   12. CWChris Williamson50:33

       I always think about it, I always think about it like getting on a roller coaster. So before you get into a relationship with someone, you're kind of watching from the outside, you obviously only know a little bit. It's like you're stood in the line, and then you watch-

   13. DKDiren Kartal50:44

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson50:45

       ... a little bit of the roller coaster go by and you're like, "Holy fucking shit, that looks so exciting. Look at all the turns, everyone's having a great time, it looks so exciting and new and different." And then if you wait in line for ages and finally get yourself into a relationship to find out that it's like the little ladybird ride that the three-year-olds-

   15. DKDiren Kartal51:03

       Yeah, yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson51:03

       ... get to go on, and it's just a loop that does the same thing all the time, it does exactly what you want, that's not why you waited in line. And if it is what you wanted, if you waited in line to get on that particular roller coaster looking at it being exciting in an effort to wrangle it down and turn it into the ladybird ride, then that's not really a very successful foundation to build a relationship on.

   17. DKDiren Kartal51:23

       It's not, man. And the problem is, your happiness, uh, uh, my happiness shouldn't be relied on someone else making me happy, which is the biggest problem, right? And it puts pressure on both parties. It puts pressure on, uh, the person that, um, has to kinda keep him happy, that's what happened. "You make me so happy, you complete me." That's fucking bullshit, bro. It's bullshit! But it annoys me so much when I see this online, I'm like, "You're lying. Stop commenting under that picture because you're sitting next to her. Say it to her face, bro. Don't say I love you on the picture, say it to her face, man. We see it already, you know?" And I'm so, like, passionate about this because I see through bullshit, right? And I just can't help call it out, and my friends are like, "Dude, nah, nah. You're just, it's from your experience." I'm like, "It's not from my experience," well, yeah, obviously from my experience I've learned, but I can see it. I can see it. If the part, if you, whoever you're seeing is not happy with what they're doing and their whole happiness is relied on yourself, then, um, at some point, it's gonna crash. I think you need to find a, a best friend that loves what they're doing, you love what you're doing, you can have fun together, there's no pressure between each other, you know? And you bring it together like that. If one party or the other party relies on you for happiness, I just think it ends up... I, I think it ends up in shambles. And I'm not, uh... Listen, I'm not a relationship expert, I'm not, but I, I think I'm quite smart with reading into, not reading into people, but seeing things and after experiencing things, I have a better idea of things, you know? I don't wanna come across as this, "Ooh, who the fuck is this relationship guru?" I'm not. I'm not that.

   18. CWChris Williamson53:11

       Not a relationship coach. Um-

   19. DKDiren Kartal53:13

       (laughs) I'm not, yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson53:15

       Think about what that sentence says, "You complete me." The converse of that is, "I am incomplete without you." That's not right.

   21. DKDiren Kartal53:24

       Nah, that's not right.

   22. CWChris Williamson53:24

       That's not the way that it should be. So I-

   23. DKDiren Kartal53:26

       It's not right.

   24. CWChris Williamson53:27

       ... I, I, I had Daniel Sloss, Netflix comedian who did Jigsaw-

   25. DKDiren Kartal53:30

       Oh, yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson53:30

       ... he has a tally of how many breakups and divorces his, his specials caused on his, uh, Twitter bio. And, um-

   27. DKDiren Kartal53:38

       Good.

   28. CWChris Williamson53:38

       ... in that he says people will prefer to choose a partner who is a terrible fit than be alone. He also says that you need to learn to love yourself before you can let somebody else love you. And he also says that the vast majority of people don't choose someone who's right, they choose someone who's there. And when you combine all of those things together, all of which I think are perfectly true-

   29. DKDiren Kartal54:00

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson54:00

       ... that with pressures from mum, dad, their side, your side, "My mates got married," or, "Why don't we move in? We should get engaged," it doesn't surprise me. I think the divorce rate's like 65% at the moment. So more than half of the marriages that begin end in separation. Why?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:06:05

   Bro, I'm not gonna…

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      and divorce rate that we're seeing in, in relationships.

   2. DKDiren Kartal1:00:03

      Bro, I'm not gonna lie, th- when I sold my story, when I told my story first on, like, my podcast, um, I had so many messages saying, "Diran, I just broke up with my partner." (laughs) I was like-

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:17

      Fucking hell.

   4. DKDiren Kartal1:00:17

      ... "Oh shit." I was like, "Oh shit." I was like, "Why?" Because what you said is exactly how I'm feeling. And I was like, "Well, good for you then." You know what I mean? You got to do what's best for you, you know? And that's, and that's the truth, you got to do what's best for you and you got to be selfish. And even if you have a family, kids, got to make sure you're happy before you make the kids happy, you know? I mean, there's a reason when you're on a flight they give you, you get the oxygen first, right? So I think that's how you should look at it, if I'm being honest.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:00:44

      I agree.

   6. DKDiren Kartal1:00:45

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:45

      Uh, have you changed your mind on anything this year?

   8. DKDiren Kartal1:00:50

      Have I changed my mind on anything? Uh, that's a good question, you know. I like that, bruv. That's a sick question. Have I changed my mind on anything?I think I've stopped biting back at trolls as much (laughs) .

   9. CWChris Williamson1:01:06

      Why?

   10. DKDiren Kartal1:01:07

       Uh, 'cause it's a waste of fucking time. It's a waste of time, man. And I've realized, like, what's the point of wasting my energy to that when I can use it for more useful things. You know? When the- when- when the time is right, I- I s- I still bite back when I need to for a message, but I- I don't bite back as much as I used to. And, um, my manager had a conversation with me once after I saw something that really frustrated me, and I wanted to fight back, and I wanted to, like, I wanted to go hard on this troll, but he was like, "No, what's the point?" And he- he kind of dropped me a few words, and I was like, "You know what? You're right. There was no point of me even wasting my energy to this when I could use it for good, you know?" So, I think that's one thing I've changed my mind on this year. I'm a lot more chilled with, um, trolls that come at me, which isn't that- that many actually, but when they come, they come pretty solid.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:01:59

       There's a- a point that you get to in terms of exposure where you start to attract a little bit of criticism online, and then obviously that goes right up to the- the full, deep trolling.

   12. DKDiren Kartal1:02:13

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:02:13

       And, um, there's no training course on that.

   14. DKDiren Kartal1:02:16

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:02:16

       Like, you know, you just kind of get dropped into it. Yeah, maybe that's part of the price that you have to pay if you want to have a platform and you want to build up a- a brand or whatever.

   16. DKDiren Kartal1:02:25

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:02:26

       But it's not like- it's not like someone, a- as soon as you get blue-ticked or as soon as you get to 100,000 subs on YouTube or whatever it is, it's not like someone just arrives with a media pack that helps you to deal with the inevitable increased criticism that you're going to get.

   18. DKDiren Kartal1:02:42

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:02:42

       And I think, um, I- I definitely think that letting it go is a good one, man. So, if that's something that you've learned from this year, I think that's a- a pretty good lesson to take away, and it's gonna make your life much easier. So, what about next year? Is there anything that you're going to improve on, anything that you're gonna work on yourself personally?

   20. DKDiren Kartal1:02:58

       Uh, next year, um, I want to make, uh, my Project X product. I wanna- I wanna be the best- I wanna be the best accountability platform as a coach on that, and I'm gonna make it- it's gonna happen. Like, there's no other way about it. It's gonna happen. I'm gonna make sure people... I wanna make sure I can get my message across to as many people as possible to help them with not only their- not only their health, but their mindset as well. And I think if you have... Okay, like I- I- I don't like- I don't like the word influencer, but like, who gives a fuck? We influence people, right? We've got the power to influence people. I feel like if I don't do that as much as I can, I feel like it's a bit of a waste. So, that's my goal. My goal for next year is to get my message across to as many people as possible, uh, whether it's my podcast, whether it's my, um, program, whether it's, uh, live events. Uh, I wanna be able to talk and get myself out there as much as possible, and travel more.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:03:57

       We gotta get COVID-

   22. DKDiren Kartal1:03:58

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:03:58

       Gotta get COVID out the way first. Man, I- I really like it.

   24. DKDiren Kartal1:04:00

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:04:00

       You know, it's a- it's a pleasure watching you and James and- and Paul and the rest of the guys kind of go on this little journey. I think it's a cool- it's a cool little community we've got, although we're spread across the world, you know. Like, Sonny and James are over there, me, you, and-

   26. DKDiren Kartal1:04:13

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:04:13

       ... everybody else is stuck in the UK at the moment, but um-

   28. DKDiren Kartal1:04:15

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:04:16

       Yeah, I think it's- I think it's nice, and, uh, like again, one of the best things that I think's happened within the last two to three years has been this movement toward... How would you say? Realistic, effective training and diet.

   30. DKDiren Kartal1:04:34

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:06:05