How To Breathe Like A Yogi - Dylan Werner | Modern Wisdom Podcast 282

1. 0:00 – 1:16

   Intro

   1. DWDylan Werner0:00

      Breathing is one of those things, we're always doing it. How you do it matters. All right. What's the famous saying? "How you do one thing is how you do everything." Well, how do you breathe? 'Cause that's what you're doing the most of. You're not doing any one activity more than that. (wind blows)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:15

      Where are you practicing your yoga in Canggu?

   3. DWDylan Werner0:19

      Where am I?

   4. CWChris Williamson0:20

      Where are you practicing it in Canggu? Are you going to a studio?

   5. DWDylan Werner0:23

      Oh, look right behind me, like right there, that, that little space behind me on that floor. That's, uh, that's where I practice yoga. (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson0:33

      So you're not going to... Obviously there's a lot of different yoga studios out there, nice places with bamboo leaves and everyone in Lululemon, and you're not bothering to venture?

   7. DWDylan Werner0:42

      There's, there are some beautiful studios here. On Saturdays I go to Kirtan, which is like, um, yoga music. So basically people get together and someone plays harmonium and someone plays, uh, a, a drum or something and you sing mantras and kirtans. Yeah. It's, uh, I don't know, it's, it's kind of a, uh, it's called Bhakti yoga. Bhakti means the yoga of devotion. And so it's a, it's a different, different sector, different aspect. It's, uh, it's good though. Yeah. So that's,

2. 1:16 – 5:46

   Yoga Philosophy

   1. DWDylan Werner1:16

      that's...

   2. CWChris Williamson1:16

      I, I didn't... I didn't realize until reading your book that there was a philosophy behind yoga. I knew that it was to do with embodied practice and different levels of awakening and stuff like that. But I didn't realize that there was a full philosophy behind it. Can you tell us a bit about that?

   3. DWDylan Werner1:32

      (laughs) The full philosophy about, of yoga? There's, there's a lot of philosophy in yoga, and it, it really depends on what, what you're talking about. I think, uh, I think what most people are familiar with as far as, like, the fundamental philosophy of yoga would be padat- um, the Yoga Sutras and Patanjali's Eight Limbs, which is essentially like the path of yoga towards enlightenment. Uh, yeah. There, there's, there's a lot of different ways you could look at it or in- interpret it. And I think, just like religion, people take the text and they kind of interpret it to make sense of their lives. And, and yoga philosophy is really, really kind of the same way. But it's, it's a guide just basically to understand your life and how to live a more harmonious life, like any philosophy is. And I think that's really one of the big differences with, with yoga compared to other kinds of fitness. I mean, yoga's, yoga's an interesting word in and of itself, because like all words, we give words meaning and we define them to be what it is. And so, uh, like, I know when I came into yoga, my definition for the word yoga was very different than what it is now. It, it was, it was like what I think the, the vast majority of people think of yoga. It's stretching and sun salutations or maybe Ashtanga, or some sort of like physical calisthenics-type movement. And, and that is, that is definitely what yoga is, but it's, it's also, it's also like the way that you interact, the way that you think, the way that you breathe. And there's... The, the way that you conduct yourself. Um, I don't know. For, for me, like, it's this, it's the word that encompasses understanding your fundamental truth, which I'm, I'm not gonna tell you what your fundamental truth is. Everyone's is, is like... That's, that's the journey. It's like understanding that in and of itself. You know, we're all living a subjective experience. We all see the world through our eyes. And I know for a long time I thought, I thought the world like kind of, uh, revolved around me, right? It's like you, you become self-centered. And, and not even in a negative way. It's just, you are the center of yourself, and, and, and that's how you see things. Uh, uh, and I think as you become more mindful and more aware of, of reality or the truth of reality, you see that your perspective is, is simply that it's your perspective and no one else shares your perspective. And therefore you can't understand anyone else's perspective because you can only understand their perspective from your space. Yeah. A- and, and yoga shows you kind of where you fit into that whole, not being separate, but more of being a part of it. Right? And I, I think, uh, I have a, one of my, my favorite teachers, his name is Shiva Das. He talks about what, what the true meaning of yoga is, and it's, um, you know, it's not about trying to be happy or be fit or anything or, or even like, uh, the, or freedom from suffering, but it's returning back to the truth. And the truth is that we are whole. And so, uh, that, that's kind of like, when I think of yoga, that's, that's what I think of. And when I practice yoga, like I, I, I use the common vernacular that everyone uses. Like, yeah, "Are you gonna go do yoga?" And I know what they mean is, "Are you gonna go do asana?" And which is fine, right? Yeah. 'Cause yes, I'm, that is a part of it. That is definitely a part of it. So I'm gonna go practice asana. But, uh, yeah. It's definitely the definition for it has changed, and, and that's kind of just like the start of the philosophy. I mean, we could spend the whole time talking about different aspects of philosophy of yoga. We could talk about maya, how we see everything as illusion. We could talk about the yamas and the niyamas and, and conducts with yourself, and we could talk about what enlightenment is and spirituality and all that. But I think, uh, I think at the end of the day, everybody is going to find what those words mean to them and define those words and give those, those things significance. And, and essentially that's what all philosophy is. It's finding the significance.

3. 5:46 – 12:58

   Connecting To The Breath

   1. CWChris Williamson5:47

      Do you think that a lot of people who are practicing yoga are missing out on that side? I've been to a number of yoga practices, some where you are, in Canggu, and also local ones in the UK. And although there is a talk of something broader than the movements themselves-... kind of on the surface, connect to the breath, connect to yourself, like, you know, the, the meditative practice sort of words, doesn't ever really seem to leave the mat.

   2. DWDylan Werner6:19

      Yeah. (laughs) I mean, that's... I, I don't wanna really make that judgment towards anyone else, uh, for their journey, 'cause there are definitely some people that it... What's important is that whatever you're doing, you're getting something from it and you're gonna take what you need at that time. For me, I ended up taking a lot more of the, the philosophical part or the, the, quote-unquote, "spiritual part" from yoga because that's what I needed. I was, I was so lost in my life. I was, um... I, I am and always have been kind of, uh, a- an adrenaline junkie or whatever. Like, I... if there... (laughs) I, I love to surf, rock climb. I was into skydiving. I'd- I've, uh... You know, snowboarding. Whatever was, like, fun and fast, I enjoyed, but I did it not... I did it because I loved it, but there's also, like, there's something that I realized was missing in my life, or I didn't know was missing in my life, but I was getting it through those things. And it was- it was something that was as simple as being present, and we talk about this all the time in yoga. And even, like, as yoga is now... The, the philosophy of yoga is seeping out into, into other... You know, I know you, you do a lot of the biohacking stuff and you're into that, and this mindfulness and meditation. And that, that really has strong roots in yoga, but not only in yoga. So we see these, these things all starting to interconnect and seep into each other. Uh... But I needed, I needed to figure out what it was to be here, and I didn't know I needed that. All I knew is that I thought my life would be better in the future or the past. And, and for me, it was generally the future. There's kind of... There's, there's not... Like, to kind of put people into, like, a general place, like, there's some people, especially older people, they, they reminisce of the past and so they tend to live in the past. And if they're older, there's more past for them than there is future, right? So they tend to be there. If you're a little bit younger, you might live more in the future because you- your aspects and your goals and the, the prospect of, of your life being better lives in the future, and so you miss out what it is to actually live. A- and doing those extreme things, I was, for the first time, living, and I was first time being. Like, the ev- the... In yoga... I, I talk about this almost every podcast 'cause I think it's such, such an important thing, but the word sat, the, the truth, um, which means, like, unchanging. Right? Everything in the world is changing. Everything in the universe is continuously changing. There's actually a epic YouTube video that shows the, the history of the universe and it goes into trillions and trillions and trillions of years and it's, and it's done to this, like, cool thing, but it, it shows basically the end of all things when all the finals- the final star burns out. 'Cause th- that, that, that's a crazy thing to think about. At one point in the future, the last sun will use up all of its energy and there'll be no light in existence. And, and so if we could... You know, like, the, the whole universe will cease, and then, and then there'll be the cooling and everything will come to absolute zero, and then there'll be no movement, and then time becomes completely irrelevant. Right? There's, there's going to be a point where time no longer exists because there's nothing moving for time. There's nothing to experience it. So (laughs) , uh, I know we're getting, w- kind of way off into a tangent here, but there, there's one thing that at least we could experience now 'cause, 'cause to live is to experience, and that's what life is. Death is non-experience. Th- th- it's the only thing that separates those two. We know, we know what experience is, so we, so we, uh, we tend to try to hold onto that and we, we are afraid of the non-experience because we don't understand that, even though you can't experience non-experience. It's just, it's just there. But the truth, the unchanging truth is this present moment. It's the window that, that looks out into the changing world that never changes itself. It's like sitting on a train and you... and y- that... and you're just going down and you look and you see everything pass while everything passes through that window, and that's essentially what your life is. And if you, uh, you know, if you, if you turn your head, then, then you miss actually what's going on. So I don't know. Yeah. That's... (laughs) As far as people getting there, I didn't think I would get there. I got there because I needed to get there. And I think the more people that practice it, practice yoga... 'Cause yoga's really... I think that whole, like, focusing on the breath and the body and the thoughts, that's... All that is is connecting those things together. We- we're, we're used to living in this world where, where the mind and the body are two different things and we think that they're separate. And we think because I'm the one looking, because I'm, I'm... from my point of view, that everything else is not me. And, and that's just the perspective of things. It's like the tree... the, the leaves on a tree thinking that they're not the tree. Uh, and so... Yeah, I don't even know where I'm going with this. But, um... Yeah. So, so we're in yoga, we come into that class and we s- and we start to move into our body and we start to actually move into our breath a little bit deeper and to sp- and we're... when we start to understand a little bit more of what being means, because all that, all that meaning comes from intention. And that was the real difference from coming into yoga and doing extreme sports-... like, in extreme sports I wa- I was brought to the present moment, but without intention. And because I didn't have any intention, I didn't last there very long. With yoga, it was- it wasn't the fact that I was practing- practicing yoga, but it was the fact that there was an intention placed upon that. And that could be a definition of yoga, if you do anything with i- intention, that could be yoga. I don't know. I, I think it's more helpful to find the things that yoga is than to try to find the things that yoga isn't. Uh, there's- I've spent too much time trying to defend what yoga is when it needs no defense. And, and if y- if people listening, if you're out there trying to find out what yoga isn't, it's not gonna help you in your journey towards anything. Yeah. My thoughts. I

4. 12:58 – 14:48

   Dominatrix

   1. DWDylan Werner12:58

      don't know.

   2. CWChris Williamson12:58

      I had this, uh, conversation with Paul Bloom, who is a, a psychologist and philosopher from Yale, I think. And, uh, he quoted this dominatrix talking about why people are into BDSM and hardcore sex. And he, uh, arrived at it in the same way as why people do extreme sports and why people do scary things. And this quote from this dominatrix is, "Nothing captures attention like a whip." And the point is that if someone slaps you in the face really, really hard, for one to five seconds after that you're not thinking of anything. The mind is completely blank, but you are there, you are in the moment.

   3. DWDylan Werner13:41

      Mm-hmm.

   4. CWChris Williamson13:42

      And I think that the people that chase extreme sports are looking for that same presence. You can't- if you're base jumping or snowboarding or rock climbing and you do allow the mind to drift, the implications are incredibly grave. You might die.

   5. DWDylan Werner13:59

      Th- yeah, they can be. And I c- I could take that to kind of play a little to maybe devil's advocate or, or I, I completely agree with that. Uh, but if that person continues to slap you in the face for the next, like, 12 hours-

   6. CWChris Williamson14:13

      (laughs)

   7. DWDylan Werner14:14

      ... at some point in time, you're gonna start thinking about something else or you're going to try to disassociate with that experience, you know? So it's- you can only- i- out- outside, outside stimula- stimuli, whatever they are, the- it's eventually- And that's what I noticed with, with, uh, with skydiving, that after, after a certain number of jumps, that I was thinking about the next jump rather than enjoying the jump that I was on, you know? And so

5. 14:48 – 15:30

   Intentionality

   1. DWDylan Werner14:49

      ... yeah.

   2. CWChris Williamson14:49

      Is that part of the usefulness of yoga, that you are always in control, that you do have to have this intentionality, that you are going into it and that whatever happens is down to you, whatever doesn't happen is down to you? There aren't any, other than gravity, there aren't really very many external stimulus that are acting on you. Is that wwhy it's forcing you to connect that mind, body, breath?

   3. DWDylan Werner15:17

      I want to say I don't know. (laughs) I mean, that, that's a, that's a really good question to kind of explore into. Um, I th- I just, I think it's kinda different for everybody.

6. 15:30 – 20:25

   Breathing

   1. DWDylan Werner15:30

   2. CWChris Williamson15:30

      You've been working on the breath a lot recently, though. How come you decided to focus so much on that and a little bit less on yoga when writing a, a book?

   3. DWDylan Werner15:40

      It's not that it's something that was, uh, recent. I think, I think people, when they, when they see me or the people that follow me and, and my practice, they really just see the physical side of it because that's the easiest thing to show. And if, uh ... I don't know. I, I do like to write a lot and I- and since I started my social media, the big part of, of what goes into my post is, is writing about philosophy or writing about the thoughts, even if it's just, like, a simple line or something, trying to provoke some sort of thought into someone else so that it maybe a start conversation or start a con- that person starts a conversation with themselves or someone else. But alway- always in my practice, since I started yoga, was a breathing aspect. I, I learned pranayama from it. And, um, I talk about this i- in my book, in the beginning of the book, of, like, of coming into, uh, pranayama and really not understanding what it was for other than I was supposed to do it. All right? And I, I think a lot of people that practice breath work, they just know that they're supposed to do it. I mean, we know that we're supposed to breathe. We, we have to. We have no choice. And people that start, like, people that are more into, like, the biohacking stuff, people that are taping their mouth at night 'cause they know, "I'm supposed to breathe through my nose and, and I'm supposed to breathe less," they c- they, they get that part of it. But there is a, um, a much greater aspect to the practice other than just breathing right or breathing less, and that is that everything, uh, energetically, physically, emotionally is linked to the breath. And because it's linked to the breath, the breath has some control over it. And so essentially, the- you could control almost every aspect of your life by learning how to control the breath, how the breath works. And you could, uh ... What, what I do mostly in my breath practice, and this is something that I think, um, maybe for just the past six or seven months or so, um, my, my breath practice is focused almost entirely on increasing athletic performance. Uh, and th- though you could do it for everything. And sometimes I do other practices and stuff, but, but it's, it's a tool. It's a tool. So you, you pick the tool that you need and you, you figure out what that tool does and how to use it and how to benefit, benefit your life with it. Uh, yeah. So I've been, I've, I've been doing breathing and, uh, studying breathing, and I've been teaching it, I've been teaching workshops and seminars on breath work, um-... I want to say for, like, seven or eight years, I've been doing, doing those where I actually get quite deep into the philosophy and all that. Uh, I... (laughs) Yeah, so it's always been a part of my practice and I'd- I, I had no intention, really, of writing a book on -my first book, anyways- to be about breathing. I was in, I was here in Bali last year, right before I, I flew to London. And m- my publisher reached out to me, and it was really kind of like a, a serendipitous kind of thing, because, uh, it was actually his wife that contacted me first. The- him- or her and the, the owner of, um, of the publishing house, Victory Belt Publishing. They had been practicing with me online for a good period of time, and, uh, the, the owner of, uh, Victory Belt said that he started yoga through my classes. And I just talked to him, and it kind of felt right, and I, I felt like he understood me a little bit, like knew me a little bit. And... 'Cause I honestly didn't think I could write a book. I was like, "There's, there's no way that I, that I can do this," and if I did, I thought my first book would be solely on, like, philosophy. Like, I was thinking about, "I'm gonna do a book on..." I wanted to call it, uh, like something like Unveil the Maya, like, um, basically, like, uh, removing the, the, the veil of illusion. And, uh, when I talked to him, we, we talked about, like, five or six different books, and we arrived at doing this book on breathing. And one of the things I- I thought was like, "Well, this is gonna be the easiest book," because I've done so much work with it. And when you've, when you've spent a lot of time with something and you've taught something for a really long time... And I think that's an- a- another thing that I f- feel really grateful about before writing the book, is that I spent so much time teaching it, that it, um, that I knew exactly how the whole thing was gonna come together before I even put pen to paper.

7. 20:25 – 24:29

   Pranayama

   1. DWDylan Werner20:25

      Yeah. So-

   2. CWChris Williamson20:26

      What do most people have wrong about the breath? What do they think it can or can't do, that it can't or can?

   3. DWDylan Werner20:34

      Well, uh, I mean, that depends on who you're talking to or who you're asking. Like, if you're asking a yogi, m- almost all yogis know pranayama. Like, if you're, if you've been practicing yoga for more than six months, you've at least heard of pranayama or done some sort of breath work. Uh, I think what they mostly get wrong is they don't know why that they're doing that. It's like, um, it's like... I mean, I, I could also say that it's probably true of a lot of people that practice the physical asana stuff, they don't understand what's the purpose of triangle pose. They just do it 'cause the teacher says to do it. So if you go down and you start doing a practice, like one of the classic ones is called Nadi Shodhana, which is, uh, alternate nostril breathing. And it's really to balance... You know, and, and they'll, and they'll explain this, it's to balance your Ida and your Pingala energies. But, but, like, what does that mean? Right? So I, I remember the first time I did it was in, in my, my 200-hour teacher training. And I'm a very, like, kind of scientific, kind of very literal. I want facts and evidence and I want things to be cited. That's why there's citations in my book, you know, like referen- uh, I wa- I wa- I want to understand where this is coming from, why we're doing it, what's the benefit, and then... And this practice of alternate nostril breathing, you know, like, you inhale through the left nostril, then you exhale through the right, inhale through the right, exhale through the left. So you're switching back and forth. But I know when- once you go past the septum, uh, it just goes right into the paranasal sin- the paranasal cavity and the sinuses and, and then, uh, down the trachea into the lungs. Like it's, it's, it just goes together and then it's one. And so I didn't understand how there was benefit of, or the physiological benefits. And there actually is. There is, there is, there is a lot that has to do with right and left, uh, hemispheres, with actually balancing those energies, but now I understand what those energies represent. There's, uh, there's... It has to do with, um, decreasing the amount of breaths, so breath regulation. So you actually are breathing less, and what that breathing less does as far as, uh, stimulating the parasympathetic nervous system and i- increasing dorsal vagal complex tone and, and slowing the heart rate and just bringing you down into, like, a, a deeper state. And so... And I also know how I could take that practice and change it now. A- and that's the other thing, it's like you're kind of given, with, with traditional yoga, you're given these practices and it's like, "Here's this practice in the box and you gotta keep it in the box and you can't really mess with it and you just gotta do it exactly like this. And then here's this other practice, and these don't really go together. And then do this." And it, it's like, okay, now we do Bhastrika which is like a fast breathing practice, and I don't think I have, was ever taught why I would want to do Bhastrika or, or a lot of them. And even if you go and you start studying, like the older, the older texts that talk about pranayama, they... The information that you're gonna get seems pretty, pretty like, f- out there. And, and for me as, as a spiritual yoga- yogi to say that like, "Out there," it's like if you practice this in the way of the master exactly as taught, which is n- not referenced in there, uh, 'cause you're supposed to learn everything directly from your guru, "People that are old will be young," you're like, "Oh, well that sounds pretty good." Right? And, and it's just like, um... Or, or the other thing that you get is this, this breathing practice, if I, if I look online and I go, "What does this breathing practice do?" And I find somebody's website that wrote up about it, I'm gonna see like a hundred different things that this one breath practice does. And it's like, "Does it really do all those things? What does it do the most effective and, and why does it do those things?" And so when I, when, um-... I think as far as what people get wrong with the breath is not understanding the potential and then not understanding what the breath that they're doing actually does.

8. 24:29 – 25:29

   Principles of good breathing

   1. CWChris Williamson24:29

      What are the principles of good breathing, then? What-

   2. DWDylan Werner24:33

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson24:34

      ... the foundational principles of it?

   4. DWDylan Werner24:36

      Like if you want to talk about just, like, daily breathing, like how, how should I breathe normally? Uh, well, I think, I think at this point most people know always breathe through your nose. Always, uh, you know, the nose is a filtration system. It humidifies and it down regulates the amount of air that we breathe. Uh, it, it's funny because, like, now in, in COVID time and talking about everyone wearing masks and watching, uh, specially in, um, my, my once home country... I haven't, I haven't lived there in a really long time, but my, my home country of the States, the good old America where people are like, "It's my God-given right to breathe, and I can't breathe if I wear a mask." And I'll, and I don't know, I did a racist country accent there. (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson25:25

      (laughs)

   6. DWDylan Werner25:25

      But I don't have, I don't have any, anything against people that are from the country or

9. 25:29 – 27:29

   Benefits of breathing less

   1. DWDylan Werner25:29

      the Midwest. But yeah, like, uh, the fact that you can't breathe with a mask or that wearing a mask is, is bad, it's actually one of the things that we, we... The benefits or the reasons why we want to breathe less is to increase carbon dioxide, to increase our, our CO₂.

   2. CWChris Williamson25:44

      Why would you want that?

   3. DWDylan Werner25:47

      Uh, w- well, the effects that, that CO₂ has on the body, first of all, we... So if I breathe, right, the, the, one of the common misconceptions that people have is like if, if I breathe a lot, if I breathe really fast, I get more oxygen. Right? Have you, have you heard that before? Breathe more, you get more oxygen. Have you ever put your finger on like, uh, an SpO₂ monitor? Uh, so SpO₂ monitors, you, you probably have at some point, they, they just put it like little thing on your finger. It measures your, your blood oxygen saturation and it says, oh, it's like 97 to 99% generally. Most people aren't below 95%. And, and the majority of the air that you breathe out or the majority of the oxygen that you take in, you breathe the majority of it out. So you're not even utilizing most of the oxygen that you take in. And it's not at 100% usually because there is some sort of, uh, there's, there's a chemical or there's an, there's an exchange between the oxygen and the carbon dioxide on the cellular level. So that's always happening. If I breathe more, what happens is I ch- I start to change my pH. So I, I have... By, by breathing more, I'm not actually getting more oxygen. I'm breathing off more carbon dioxide. So that's, that breathing more is gonna affect my sympathetic nervous system. And we see this in HRV, heart, heart rate variability. So we know as I inhale, I stimulate the sympathetic nervous system and the heart speeds up and it becomes more regular. As I exhale, I stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system, the heart slows down, and it becomes more varied or irregular, which is, which is a good thing. The more... You, you've, I'm sure,

10. 27:29 – 28:29

    Benefits of breathing more

    1. DWDylan Werner27:29

       studied a bit into HRV. So, so we know that, we know just through that as, as one of the many things that the breath affects the nervous system. So if I breathe more or breathe faster, I get more sympathetic. Uh, the other thing is I breathe off more carbon dioxide and so that changes my blood chemistry. So I actually become more alkalinic, which we like, "Oh, I want to be alkalinic." And I mean, we could talk about that. I do, I do discuss that why you actually don't want to be alkalinic through breathing, but sometimes you do. I lose the carbon dioxide, and the other thing that happens is the oxygen bond to the hemoglobin becomes, uh, becomes much stronger. So when I breathe in, we have the par- the atmospheric pressure that's in the lungs, and that kind of helps push it onto the hemoglobin. Also, also the hemoglobin, it, it, it's a different shape when it lets go. So then it attaches, the oxygen molecules attach to the red blood cells and

11. 28:29 – 29:49

    The Bore Effect

    1. DWDylan Werner28:29

       kind of like locks on there, and then it goes. Well, there's a system that tells it to release, and that system is, is described through the Bohr effect, which, uh, is... Uh, you've heard of the Bohr effect before.

    2. CWChris Williamson28:41

       In, in your book.

    3. DWDylan Werner28:41

       So Bohr... (laughs) In my book, yeah. Okay, so the Bohr effect basically, basically states that, that, um, by increasing carbon dioxide and, and, um, decreasing pH, which is, makes it more acidic, that you, uh, decrease the affinity or the attraction of oxygen to hemoglobin. And so that allows the oxygen... And this is on, on the, in the, in the tissues, in the cellular, in the cells, this allows the oxygen to be released from the red blood cells and go into the cells. And so then you have that exchange between, between oxygen and carbon dioxide. All right? So with- without that, we don't really get the oxygen into the body. So we need that carbon dioxide. We also breathe... Uh, we take our breaths based on how much, how much carbon dioxide that we have in, in our body. So this is, um... There, there's, there's several different breathing ways, but one of the ways is, is in the, in the aortic arch, it kind of measures that, and we have also in the brain too, which that measures oxygen. But we have it measuring like how much carbon dioxide. So if,

12. 29:49 – 31:59

    Low Carbon Dioxide

    1. DWDylan Werner29:49

       um, my levels get, of carbon dioxide get high, then my body says, "Breathe." If they're low, it says, "Don't breathe." It's one of the reasons why Wim Hof method works how it does. You breathe really fast. You become... You don't, you don't increase your oxygen levels. In fact, you're, you're doing the opposite. By breathing fast, you don't get the exchange of oxygen on, onto the, into the cells. A- and one of the ways that you could just test that real quick is to hyperventilate and then feel lightheaded and dizzy. Well, the reason why you feel lightheaded and dizzy is, one, that you change the pH. It's not that you have more oxygen because you know if you put on like 100% oxygen, you actually think clearer, not less. You don't go, "Ooh," dizzy. But then also you continue to do that, then you... Because you're not getting the oxygen to the tissues at the extremities, you start to have what's called carl- uh, carpalpedal spasms, carpal hands, pedal feet, where you start to do this, this posturing stuff. If you rea- you see it, like I was a paramedic for eight years, and people that have panic attacks and hyperventilate, they're like this. And then...... if you do long, long breathing, like more controlled, you'll feel your face get numb, your belly get numb. Well, all these are, are effects of having low carbon dioxide. You become hypocapnic, or car- deficient in carbon dioxide. W- well, so when you do Wim Hof breathing, you do this rapid fast breathing. You become, um, hypocapnic, and, and so then you're able to hold the breath for a really long time because those CO2 levels have to rise back up to get to the point where you want to take a breath again. And that's why you're able to do this. And, and you hold on the exhale, which gives you the advantage of, of, um, using up more oxygen. So then once you start using up the oxygen, you're holding the breath, your CO2 levels come back up, the oxygen levels go down, and, and now you ... This is where you start getting into increasing, like athletic performance and all the other benefits that come from breathing less. Uh, and, and so then your body's, uh ... We, we make about two million to two-and-a-half million red blood cells every second. And also, we lose about two to two-and-a-half million red blood cells every second. And those red blood cells live for about three

13. 31:59 – 33:29

    The Body

    1. DWDylan Werner31:59

       to four months each. And it's a demand system, so the body's always trying to main- s- it's always trying to do what it needs to do to do what it needs to do. Right? This is, this is like we want to, we want to give the bo- the body wants to give you what you need. But if you sit on the couch and you over-breathe all the time, when you get up and you try to run, what your body did was when those red blood cells died, it said, "Well, you know, be- because we're over-breathing, um, the, the oxygen is staying on the red- blood cells and it's coming back to the lungs. And so they're coming back with oxygen, so we don't really need that. We have too many red blood cells. Those take energy to make, and we're making 2 million of them every second. So let's make less." And then, and then you go to run and you let the b- and you're like, "Shit, I'm so winded." Uh, but if you breathe less, even if you just ... Like, so if you do cardio, that- you are working towards the upper end of your cardiorespiratory limit. Your heart is beating fast, your metabolism increase. Even though you're breathing faster, you're using more oxygen than what you have. And so the body goes, "Oh, we need t- we need to m- we need to make more red blood cells so that we can carry more." The analogy that I, I, I use ... There's a lot of really good analogies, but it's like, uh, if you, if you go ... You've been on the Tube before? So people that aren't, aren't, uh, aren't Londoners or whatever aren't, aren't familiar with the Tube or the Subway or the

14. 33:29 – 35:19

    Train Cars

    1. DWDylan Werner33:29

       Underground or, or whatever, uh, some sort of, uh, underground system. Or like in China, you see all these people ... Or Japan, I think it's Japan. All these people, like pressing in, trying to get as many people into one train car as possible. Well, this i- this is, this is what th- we're trying to do when we don't have a lot of red blood cells. Right? We pack those. They can only be packed full, and so if you, if, if you try to breathe more to pack those more, it's not, it's not gonna do anything. And we already know that breathing more is, uh ... And in fact, actually when we breathe more, we're not allowing those, those passengers to get off. So it's like they do the whole circuit and they come back and there's still people on there. Right? Uh, uh, but what we need to do is we need to add more train cars, and we need to be more efficient about getting those people off of the cars. And so that's what adding more red blood cells does. It adds more train cars to the system so that they're able to get more oxygen on there. And then by breathing less and getting carbon dioxide levels up and, and being more, uh, uh, acidic in the blood, we're able to get the oxygen off quicker and more efficient. And so this helps with the efficiency of, of breathing. One, um, I think a really good analogy with, with breath is understanding kind of the same thing with diet. So we think, "Oh, this is how much I need to breathe. I'm breathing on demand." Right? And if you're someone that over-breathes, right, that's what you need to breathe. You're just ... Or especially if you're breathing through the mouth. (exhales) And, and mouth-breathers, I mean, other than it just, it's, um, you know, it's a sign of, of, of, uh, unintelligence, but also halitosis and, and all kinds of other things that come up. But if you're, if you're breathing through the mouth, you're breathing more than what you need to immediately

15. 35:19 – 38:59

    Air Hunger

    1. DWDylan Werner35:19

       already, so you're breathing too much. So it's, um, it's like if you are ... If you eat too much. If you eat 12,000 calories a day, and th- and that's what you're used to eating, you're gonna put on a lot of weight, and your body is going to need those calories because of the excess weight and all those things. And so you think that you need to eat more and it becomes this cycle. And then as soon as you go on a diet, then your body goes, "Oh," i- uh, first part when you go on a diet, you go, "Oh, I'm starving. I'm hungry." And, and this is what air hunger is. This is what holding the breath does. We, we, we are ... We're basically pushing our CO2 tolerance, right? Our, our tolerance to how much carbon dioxide can we have into the system. Well, if our tolerance is really low, we're gonna breathe really fast. If we're able to build that tolerance up, we start to breathe slower. So it's like sn- you know? So I go on a diet, I start to eat less, I lose weight, then my body adjusts to that new weight, it adjusts to the new cal- caloric intake, and then I'm healthier and I have a new normal. So when it comes to, like, breathing, like first off is just to be conscious of how much you're breathing. Like breathe less. I know, this is a long way to get to like one question, but breathe less. Breathe through your nose is the first one. It's, uh, it's already, it's already gonna t- down-regulate how much you're breathing. Breathe slower when you can think about it. A- and, and if you can, like periodically hold a breath or do practices where you have breath-holding. If you're like someone like me that you want to increase your athletic performance-... really working into doing long breath holds, will- will help to increase your- I mean, there's- there's a whole, there's a whole, like, formula of all the things you need to do to increase your athletic performance through breathing. But, you know, you increase your vital capacity, how much oxygen the- the lungs could hold. You increase your respiratory strength. Just like any muscle, when a muscle is stronger, it has to work less hard. So if you increase the- the strength of your respiratory muscles through doing things, uh, and I think we'll- we'll do, like, a practice of how to increase respiratory strength. So you increase the strength of your diaphragm, your- your- your corset muscles, like all- all your core muscles, your intercostal muscles, uh, they're stronger, so that means they work less. They- they don't have to use as much energy to do the- to do the job. So when you go out running, those are, uh, muscles that aren't having to work as hard, so that means they're not using as mus- much oxygen. Uh, you decrease your- you- you increase your CO₂ tolerance. That means you can get carbon dioxide levels up higher, so when you are running, you don't feel, or whatever you're doing, you don't feel the need to breathe as heavy. Um, and then you're also, because you're increasing that, you're also, through like the Bohr effect, you're getting more oxygen into the cells. So that's like c- like, the real quick- quick, like, uh, quick and dirty way to do that. So it's a breathing less whenever you can, whenever you can think about it, doing a breath practice that focuses around breathing less. That doesn't mean the whole breath practice is about breathing less. Like, my- my athletic performance breath practice, there's a- a heat building part of it where I do a lot of fast breathing when I... Or I do, like, something like Wim Hof, where I do some rapid breath where I'm really working my respiratory muscles really strong. And then, um, and then I hold on an exhale, then hold on an inhale. Or there's different advantages to holding on exhales compared to holding on inhales, and they're both good, so I do both. You know, one works more towards CO₂ tolerance. One, um, works more towards lowering, um, lowering SpO₂, right? So you- you kind of need both

16. 38:59 – 41:59

    Deep Breathing

    1. DWDylan Werner38:59

       of those. You want both of those. Uh, the oth- the other thing is breathing efficiently. So if- uh, if I were to ask you right now, take a deep breath. Take a deep, deep inhale. Inhale deeper. Inhale deeper. Inhale deeper. All right, so no- notice that thing, what just happened when you really started. Do it again. Breathe, and fill your lungs as full as they get. As full as they do. And- and if you're listening, do this also at home. So d- y- if you noticed, did you see your shoulders went up like this? All right, so that is- that is essentially inefficient breathing. When we are filling the lungs, we're looking for space. Well, as the lungs go out, the- the lungs, there's- there's a little space. So the way the diaphragm works, it's kind of like a, it's, it, like an M, you know? It's not so much like a- an upside-down U, but it's more like an M. The- the top of the diaphragm is connected and the way that this, the central tendon is- is connected to the mediastinum, which is at the bottom of the heart. So this does move a little bit, but if it were to move, uh, down as- as much as the rest of the diaphragm did, it would cause some trauma to the heart. The heart would be going like this every time you- you started running or taking a deep breath. So it doesn't want to do that. It's- the side of the diaphragm pulls down. And then the lungs, as they fill up, well, they can only go out so much, and then where they want to go is actually down. And they don't d- go down into the core. As we expand the belly, what expanding the belly does is it allows the- the rib cage, the bottom ribs, to open up outwards like this, and then the intercostals open this way. So we want the intercostals to open downward like this, so that we can get into this place where the lungs go into, which is called this- the sub- subcostal recess. Little space. If you look at it, uh, at an X-ray of the lungs, y- w- when, um, you see like a little black area in the pleural cavity, right between the- the diaphragm and the ribs. So this, the upper cavity. So you see that. You want the lungs to be able to move down into that. And as you move the lungs out, or the ribs out and down, you open up that space, which opens up your vital capacity, uh, which is how much air you can put into your lungs. So you basically, with breathing, with deep breaths, you're trying to open up as much as you can. Well, so that happens by breathing down. If I breathe up like this, there's not so much space. And now I start moving into this platysmas area, these muscles here. And I'm like, coming up this, and I'm lifting my shoulders up. Well, as I lift up my shoulders, this makes the, this pulls everything else up and it also deflates the chest. So I'm not able to move. And it also takes a- a whole lot longer. And when you- when you breathe, when you take a deep breath, you wanna imagine like you have a rubber band right around the center of your ribs. So the middle part of your ribs. So as you inhale, instead of inhaling up or down, you want to think of expanding it out in- in like 360 degrees. So try that same breath really deep, but this time try to expand just in the middle.

17. 41:59 – 43:39

    Heavy Breathing

    1. DWDylan Werner41:59

       So you just inhale and keep the shoulders where they are and feel how fast and full you can feel the breath. You- you feel that? Like immediately your lungs are so much fuller and there was way less effort, right? Did you feel that? Way less effort. You're completely full. You couldn't expand it. And you- you might actually feel like you could go even more. So this is like, this is how we should be breathing all the time. And when we're- when we're doing something heavy where we have heavy breathing, we need to be aware of, like if I'm running or something like this, I don't want to be, I don't want to be breathing... Or if I'm doing something that's, you know, uh, if you do like jujitsu or- or anything that really makes you breathe super heavy and super hard, uh, w- uh, when I- when I watch, I mean, this is something I could go to the, just the UFC and- and train UFC fighters and immediately improve their performance just by when they're- when they're working when you see them (inhales sharply) breathing (inhales sharply) up into their chest like this, or, you know, they're breathing through their mouth because they're trying to get more oxygen. Well, if- if they had more red blood cells, they wouldn't need to breathe through the mouth. Another thing is, when you're doing physical activity, always breathe through your nose.... right? And, and, and let that ... So if you can't do what you're doing, if you can't run faster breathing through your nose, run slower. Right? Get that part up first, and then, and then you'll be able to increase your performance so much more. And there's a lot of studies with runners and Olympians that changed their, their training practice to breathing through the nose and they increased their time. I mean, by, by a small amount but, if, when you're at an Olympic level, to increase your time by anything is huge. Like, you think, like, between first place and fifth place is less than a second. Right? It's, uh, it's between being on the platform or, or not. Or the podium.

18. 43:39 – 48:59

    Breathing Through The Nose

    1. DWDylan Werner43:39

       Yeah.

    2. CWChris Williamson43:40

       How much can doing a practice of between 10 and 20 minutes a day, how much can that affect something, a habit that we're going to do for the rest of the 23 hours and 40 minutes every day? I can't ... One thing that I'm interested in is looking at something that is, is it habituated? Is it necessary? Do we have conscious control over it? How much of it is part of the ... is it autonomous system, and how much of it is part of-

    3. DWDylan Werner44:10

       Right.

    4. CWChris Williamson44:10

       ... like, what I'm trying to work out is can we undo the good work during a breath practice of 10 or 20 minutes by not being conscious of it throughout the day? And obviously, we're doing stuff.

    5. DWDylan Werner44:21

       Right.

    6. CWChris Williamson44:21

       I can't spend my whole day thinking about breathing.

    7. DWDylan Werner44:24

       Well, the one part you should think about is breathing through the nose. Right? You should spend the ... If you notice you're breathing through the mouth throughout the day, you should be like, "Oh, I'm a-" Or if you take ... If you yawn (yawns) like this. If I yawn, for whatever reason, I hold my breath. The, the-

    8. CWChris Williamson44:38

       Why?

    9. DWDylan Werner44:38

       Coming into this it ... Because if I, I yawn, I took, I took a deep breath, uh, it's a, it's a minor over-breathing, m- a minor little bit of over-breathing, and, and now I have ... I just inflated my, my lungs. A, a normal breath is, is, on average, is about a half liter. A full breath is, on average, about, for, for, like, a man, is about five and a half to six and a half liters. So, you know, you just, you, the, you have residual volume and stuff that you ... So you're, uh, you're actually probably breathing about three liters with a deep breath, uh, compared to the half of liter. So you're breathing, like, six to seven times more than what you need to. And so already, like, that one deep breath, I'm like, "Okay, so I just, I just took, like, my breath, all the breaths I need for this entire minute."

    10. CWChris Williamson45:28

        (laughs)

    11. DWDylan Werner45:28

        "So I'm gonna hold my breath right now." (laughs) Like, that's how I think about it. The, the, uh, as far as, like, doing the practice in the morning, this really gets down to why you're doing the practice or what are you doing the practice for. Because you're gonna change ... Like, for athletic performance, if you want to increase athletic performance, 15 minutes to 20 minutes a day is not gonna do it. It's the same thing, like, if you want to increase long distance running, running for five, 10 minutes a day is not gonna increase your long distance running or, or any sports. When it comes to athleticism, you need to move more or do more. Uh, with, um ... And then also, there's something called a, like, splenic contraction. So when you are in a place of, of oxygen deficiency for so- for a certain period of time, which is, it cha- it's different for everybody, but roughly about 15 minutes. So, like, when you're working out or you're running, you get that second wind about after, like, 15 minutes, or why people warm up, uh, um, when you do, like, these, like, crazy warm-ups, it's to get that splenic contraction so the spleen, which holds red blood cells, contracts like this and it squirts out a bunch more red blood cells into your system, so then you have more red blood cells so you can do more ath- uh, the, the body is pretty smart like this, so it al- it's already thinking ahead. So it's another way to become more polycythemic. But you need, you need to be able ... If you're doing this regularly and you're constantly working the spleen, the spleen is gonna get used to contracting more, 'cause it's, it doesn't necessarily empty itself. It gives maybe a little bit. You know, it, it doesn't want to give everything all at once. But if you work into, to lots of retentions like that, into breath practice, you're gonna get more of that and it's gonna ... It's why, if you do a breath practice, you're ... Like how I, how I do my practice, I, I normally start with, um, two minutes outer retention, two minutes inner retention, and then two minutes, 2:30 outer retention, 2:30 inner retention. So it's just, like, exhale, hold the breath, take an inhale, hold the breath. And the last one, three minutes outer retention, three, exhale, hold for three minutes, inhale, hold for three minutes. And the third one that I do is easier than usually the first one, and that's because your, your body is, is getting those extra r- blood cells through that splenic contraction. So if you're looking like that, 15 to 20 minutes isn't going to really increase it. But doing this kind of practice every day, just like any, any kind of, uh, workout, is going to increase everything else. And as far as, like, the other aspects of, like, um, you know, if, if I wanted to do something to be more calm or relaxed, I'm gonna feel the, the effects immediately afterwards. I'm not gonna feel it necessarily all the way throughout the day, because as soon as something else comes into, to change my nervous system, right, I'm gonna feel those effects of the nervous system. Or if I do a practice that, that ... Like, in the morning, let's say I do, like, an energizing practice, like a wake-up practice, and I'm doing a lot of, a lot of things that really work into the sympathetic nervous system, I'm gonna feel really energized for a bit, but as soon as ... That, that's gonna wear off. It's like having a coffee, right? Coffee only lasts so long. The go- You could essentially get the same effects with that. So it's not really gonna change this- the, uh, the autonomy of your life, but it's, it's a tool for what you need, depending on what you're doing. Like I said, if you're doing, like, an, uh, 30 or 40 minutes of, uh, of something to in- increase your VO2 max, like that kind of stuff, you will see those effects any time that you need to do anything that increases your demand for,

19. 48:59 – 53:04

    Breathing Triggers

    1. DWDylan Werner48:59

       uh, cardio. Yeah.

    2. CWChris Williamson49:01

       Do you have any other triggers that you use throughout the day?

    3. DWDylan Werner49:04

       Y-

    4. CWChris Williamson49:04

       So you mentioned there that if you yawn, you hold your breath. Are there any other triggers that people can use to ensure that they're breathing correctly through their normal day-to-day existence?

    5. DWDylan Werner49:13

       Uh, (sighs) other, other kind of-... not- not- not so much. Like, when I- when I think about it, I just try to breathe slower. Doing a breath practice where you- where you're- even if you're doing 15 or 20 minutes a day, like, you don't have to be a- a psycho like me and- and do 45 minutes to an hour every single day. But ju- but just doing something like that is g- especially if you do it in the morning, is gonna start your day with at least that mindfulness around the breath, so that awareness around the breath. A- a- and the way that I talk about the breath, like, um, there- there's a lot of people out there with- with, you know, their- their kind of biohacking thing and saying, "This fixes all that." And the breath doesn't fix anything. It- it's- that's- i- it's like anything- it's like anything else. Like, uh, we have these- these different aspects of health, right? Diet, fitness, sleep, stress, good stress or bad stress, and breathing. And so if we don't have, uh, if we don't, um, have proper diet or we eat bad, we feel it through everything else. And if we don't sleep well, we wake up, we feel no... Same- same thing with the breath. So we gotta- the breath is gonna affect everything on- on how we use it, but it's more of- more of a tool. So it's like a- if I breathe and I'm doing a practice that's maybe really about balancing and centering my mind, balancing my nervous system, good practice for this is box breathing or square breathing, where you inhale, hold, exhale, hold for, like, the same amount of time. There's been research around HRV with this, how it shows to balance the nervous system. So a practice like this is good to put you in a mindset where you are more rational and more clear or more- more balanced, less, um, less reactive. But if y- like, you know, breathing could fix your relationships if you're in the right place to fix your relationships, but breathing can't fix your relationship. You know what I'm- you know what I'm saying? It's like, so it could kind of act as a tool to put you in a more conscious mindset, or to bring you out of- out of the sympathetic tone that's triggering w- whatever it is, or if you are just feeling super lazy and lethargic. Sometimes, like, if I'm just- if, uh, I'm wanting to do something and I'm- I'm on the couch and I don't feel like getting off the couch, I- I'll do a breath practice that'll increase the tone. I'll do some- some Kapalbhati or Bhastrika, where I'm like (breathing rapidly) just really fast, in and out through the nose, pumping my breath, and then maybe I'll hold at the end, 'cause any time I do fast breathing, I usually add in some breath hold after that. But that brought me into my sympathetic nervous system. I'm in a safe place. So I talk about this, the polyvagal theory, in the book. You know, a sympathetic serv- nervous system doesn't always mean fight or flight. It's also, like, mobility. So I'm- and I'm in a- I feel- I'm in a safe place, sympathetic nervous system, and now it's like, "All right, let's go." And all r- I just motivated myself to do whatever that is. But, yeah. So it's like the breath acts as a tool to help fix the areas of your life. Like, uh, breathing is amazing for sleep. It's amazing to do, like I'll- I'll do breath practices if I'm going to sleep, but if I drank coffee after, like, 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon, if I'm stressed, one of the things that breathing can do is it could help- help with my mind, with my thoughts and letting go of all those things. Uh, so if I- my mind is- is really busy, the breathing could help with that. But if- but if I'm- yeah, if I've just done a lot of coffee or I'm on f- on my computer till late at night and I- I have all this blue light and stuff, like these different- these different things are gonna affect my sleep. Yeah, breathing is gonna help, but it's not gonna solve the problem. I have to go in and- and fix those other aspects to help improve my- help improve that. It's one- it's one thing. So

20. 53:04 – 55:29

    Will Exercise Make Me Fit

    1. DWDylan Werner53:04

       breath is a tool. It's not- it's not a cure-all.

    2. CWChris Williamson53:07

       Mm. I suppose it's the same as talking about will exercise make me fit outside of exercise? And you go, well, there is a component of that. You need to train in the gym, but also you should try and get a little bit of movement in throughout your day. It's like, do I need to eat well all the time? It's like, well, the more that you can eat well, the better. You need to have your square meals being good, but if you keep snacking in between those, i.e. good diet, bad diet, the- that's also gonna have an effect on you. If you sleep well once a week and then for the other nights of the week you don't sleep so good. So yeah, it makes sense that you have a focus period on the breath, which is your practice, and then you're cognizant of it throughout the day and you're trying to instantiate those good habits as best you can. That does- that does make sense.

    3. DWDylan Werner53:53

       Yeah. Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson53:53

       One of the things that I found interesting was energetic locks. Can you explain how that works?

    5. DWDylan Werner53:59

       Oh, the... So the energetic locks, in yoga we call these Bandhas, and this is a- a- what I- what I really... Like, I ho- I hope as being a non-yogi is like the stuff made sense to you, 'cause I- I really try to write it for non-yogis but still also appeal to- 'cause I am a yogi, uh, in every sense of the term. So still- still a- appeal to what those things do. Uh, so a Bandha is an energetic lock. It's kind of th- from this old ancient school of yoga. I d- I do talk quite a bit into it. There's- there's essentially there's locks. Like, you could say there's locks everywhere, but I talk about the three major locks, which is Mulabandha, the root lock, Uddiyana Bandha, which is the n- the navel lock, and then Jalandhar- Jalandhar Bandha, which is the throat lock. Uh, in, like, practices, like physical practice like Ashtanga, you hear a lot of Mu- uh, Mulabandha and stuff. Essentially, it's like- it's a contraction. Each one of them is a contraction of a different muscle, and they- they do different things. And the idea is to regulate the energetic flow. And I- I think with, like, one- one thing that people get really confused on or- or don't understand is, like, what is energy? That's- that's like a, you know, you could talk to- if you- if you talk to a structural engineer...... about what energy is, or you talk to a, an electrician about what energy is, or if you t- talk to like a spiritual

21. 55:29 – 58:39

    What Does Energy Mean

    1. DWDylan Werner55:29

       guru about what, what energy is, they- they'll give you different answers. I mean, um, as I- I have a-

    2. CWChris Williamson55:35

       What does it mean to you then? What does it mean in your ...

    3. DWDylan Werner55:37

       It's not that what it means to me, it's- it has a lot of different definitions. So you have ther- thermal energy, you have- you have electrical energy, you have kinetic energy. Uh, you have ... So like the- the nervous system, as we move, like this- this movement that we have is- is energy. What tells my- my muscles to fire is- is an electrical impulse that happens through a sodium-potassium pump on the cellular level that sends a signal up or down from the brain depending on efferent or a- afferent nerves, and then we have movement. Uh, so this is very much the Western sense of what we feel energy is in our body. Right? We have thermal energy, obviously, like as- as ... We- we produce heat. Uh, I'm- I'm in Bali. It's quite hot right now. I'm- I'm talking to you with my AC off, and I'm feeling (laughs) my body heat as I- I s- I sweat up my shirt. Uh, th- yeah. So there's a ... You know, that's- that's another type of energy. And then when we get into yoga, we- we don't really know what we're saying when we say energy and we talk about like how the energy moves through the body. And so this was like the- the yoga ... The- we have ... The- the yoga ... Yoga's quite old, you know. It's thousands of years old, and they didn't have the tools to see how myelinated and unmyelinated nerves work, or- or how the signal transponds or any- anything like that. Uh, but they- they mapped out, before they even knew what nerves were, they mapped out these things called nadis, which is how energy flows through the body. And if you- if you, uh ... You'll feel it. Like if you hit your funny bone or if you get a kink. You ever had like a kink in your back and you feel it in your hand? Right? So the like- the yogis maybe understood that as, "Oh, here's like an energetic thing," or- or just your level of energy. How much- how much, um, energy ... Y- you know what I'm saying. Like b- your l- your energetic levels of like to get out and do stuff, or if you're low on energy, you don't want to do something. So this is all things that we refer to as energy, and- and on a scienti- on the Western side, I see this as sympathetic/parasympathetic. Right? What- what is producing this level of energy? Well, the yogis had a- a different map or a different system of energy, uh, but it's the same thing. They just- they just describe it different. And- and one of the things that I- I love and- and I really tried to do in this book was to show how these two s- the actually, it's four or five systems depending on how you- you're looking at it, but how these systems intertwine. 'Cause if we're talking about energy and it's all the same thing and we realize it's- it's all the same thing, it's- it's my ... Energy is essentially y- your inter- ... Like as far as you're concerned as a subjective experiencer, it's your interaction with the world and how you move through it. That's- that's your energy. Or how outer things affect you. Right? So cold affects you. That's an energetic thing. Heat affects you. That's an energetic thing. Emotions affect you.

22. 58:39 – 1:18:42

    How We Feel Energy

    1. DWDylan Werner58:39

       Right? That's an energetic thing. If someone- if someone you don't know just comes by and gives you the bird, or- or- or in London, the- the reverse peace fingers. (laughs) They- I'm- I'm- I'm used like California to be like, "Yeah, peace," right? And then like, like, oh, I'm always like, "Peace."

    2. CWChris Williamson58:54

       (laughs)

    3. DWDylan Werner58:54

       "Peace out." In London, they're like, "Oh, why- why do you sh- why are you doing that to me?" I'm like, "Oh, peace, brother." Like, no, no. No, nothing like that. (laughs) Yeah. But y- you know, that's- that's felt with energy. We actually feel that. Or if you go into a room and somebody ... Y- you immediately feel someone's like good energy or dark energy. And this is something that we are- been programmed from- from an evolutionary standpoint and to keep us safe. Is that person dangerous or not dangerous? Well, we use that word energy to say that this person has bad energy, meaning this person is dangerous, or this person has good energy, meaning this person's not dangerous. Maybe I want to mate with this person. Maybe I want to fight this person. Right? So we- we feel that. Uh, well, the yogis did a great job of- of mapping these types of energies out and how they- they manifest in us and how they ... On maybe an emotional level. So when I start thinking about the energetics of- of yoga, I think of like more, how are these affecting the ener- the emotional energetics of my life, and how do I bring balance about this? And because I- I know and I understand that how through the Western system of energy and how, you know, emotions are essentially just hormones and neurotransmitters, and they're affected through the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Right? So our feelings, our imbalances, like if I have relation- relationship problems ... Well, you ever had a relationship problem with someone you don't really care about?

    4. CWChris Williamson1:00:23

       Yes.

    5. DWDylan Werner1:00:24

       Yeah. You don't ... It doesn't really affect you s- so much, right? You don't have those- those emotional imbalance even though you have a relationship problem. You're like, "Well, I guess this relationship's over," you know? (laughs) Right? Oh, but if you have a relationship problem with someone that you care a lot about, they affect you really deeply, even though they're both relationship problems. So it's ... But we're- we're trying to ... It's the- the hormones that are- that are released and the neurotransmitters that release them make us feel that way, which is ... So I know ... Well, I know that through the breath if I inhale, then that's gonna affect my parasympathetic nervous system. I know if I exhale, it's gonna be ... Or sorry, inhale's gonna be my sympathetic, exhale's gonna be my parasympathetic. Well, also, if I inhale, this is going to- like, I talk about the- the yoga side of it, my- my rajasic energy.So rajasic energy is the energy that goes out and expands and dissipates, right? It's, it's, uh ... We think of this energy as the doing energy, right? This is, this is the energy that we have. And we think about the sympathetic nervous system, this is the moving energy. Well, what are the imbalances of, of always needing to do, always going after goals or whatever. Like, we burn out, we get exhausted, we need balance in that. And so now I'm looking at something on an energetic level of, okay, well, I don't just want more, uh, energy to get going, but, but where ... The imbalance here, where I'm burning myself out, right? And I see that, and it's like, okay, well, I want to bring balance into this, so maybe I need more tamasic energy. And tamas is things coming down and contracting together, consolidating, right? But if I have too much of it, then I ju- I'm just, like, stuck. I'm stuck in my system or I'm wilting away. You know, if you don't move, you atrophy. This is, this is the ... If we stop moving, it's not that we stop doing anything, we start dying. And this is the, the energy of tamas, and so we don't want to be there. But if we're always moving, then we burn out. So somewhere in there, there's a balance, and this is ... That, that balance is called sattva in yoga. And sattva is the energy of being. So rajas is doing, tamas is having. It's ... 'Cause there's good parts of it. You know, feeling warm, safe, comfortable, right? These, these things. Like, but if too much of that, then you're like ... You know, the, the saying, like, uh, you never want to be too comfortable, 'cause then you don't do anything. Uh, that's not really a saying, but it's based off of a saying that I don't remember what the saying is. But yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's, like, we don't want to be too comfortable, because then we lose our rajas, of doing. So when we find the balance of that, we get into being. And, and being only lasts so long. Like, and y- and we ... Like, why don't we always just want to be in sattva? Well, we do, but is that a possibility that's realistic for people? Usually not. Usually not. Usually we need to move or we need to rest. And so we're, we're tiptoeing, like, around this. Um, we're always looking for homeostasis until we find homeostasis, and then we're looking for something else, right? When ... You know what I'm saying? Like, th- that's how the body works. We're trying to get balanced. As soon as you're balanced, the body goes, "Okay, we're, let's ... There's no growth in balance. We need to unbalance ourselves so we could grow again." A- and this is just the ... The yogis saw this and they kind of ... So this is where that system comes together. And so sattva, to be, the energy is actually upward. And I understand that, but when you talk about upward, it's ... The upward flow of energy is growth. And in sattva, really, it's our spiritual growth, our enlightenment. Uh, enlightened means to shine light upon something that's dark so that you understand it. You know, so illuminated. The, the, the name of my book is called The Illuminated Breath, and it's to basically remove the darkness around the breath so that we understand it. And that, that's, that's ... When you understand it, it's useful. It becomes a tool, and you could, you could work with it. So this is like ... We see these energy systems as the same thing. And when we see them as the same thing and we just realize that it's ... You know, I, I use the, the illustration of looking at a map. If you draw a map, well, the map is nothing. It only represents something that's real. Right? If I, if I have a map of England, well, that's a representation of England. If I want to go ... You're in Manchester?

    6. CWChris Williamson1:04:33

       Newcastle.

    7. DWDylan Werner1:04:34

       Or Newcastle?

    8. CWChris Williamson1:04:34

       Newcastle.

    9. DWDylan Werner1:04:35

       Newcastle. So if I want to go up to Newcastle from London-

    10. CWChris Williamson1:04:38

        Mm-hmm.

    11. DWDylan Werner1:04:38

        ... yeah, I would follow, what, the M1 or something. I don't know the roads there. (laughs) Is that right?

    12. CWChris Williamson1:04:44

        Correct. Yeah, the A1, what it turns into, is about a mile away here.

    13. DWDylan Werner1:04:48

        Oh, cool. All right. So, so I would follow the road system. But if I was to, to build something, I would look at, like, city planning or if, you know, or plumbing or something like that. Or if I wanted to go hiking, I might look at a topography map. Well, they all just represent the same thing. They're just different aspects of that thing. And so when I, when I know that, what the map is representing, and I ... If I know I move north, I move north across all maps, right? But it's ... But what do, what do I need from that map t- for it to be useful to me? And that's why the different systems are important. That's why understanding is important. Moving is the breath. So I need to, I need to move north. The breath is gonna take me north. How do I, why do I need to m- move n- north? Am I going north to come see you? Am I going on a hike? You know, it's like, what, what do I want to see? Uh, and so, like, we understand that. I know how the breath affects these different things, and this is something that I, I laid out in the book to kind of make it ... It's, it's really simple. There's, there's one Venn diagram in there called the Systems of Balance that shows the autonomic nervous system, the polyvagal theory, the nadis, the vayus, and the gunas, and how that's affected through the inhale or the exhale. And then, um, learn ... And then there's a chapter on, on each of those that tells you what that map actually represents. So you could be like, "Okay, well, you know, I'm, I'm feeling like my head's lost in the clouds. I'm just a dreamer." Well, this is like vyana vayu, right? That's what that map represents. So it takes something that's really, like, kind of foofoo and gives you something that, that, uh, allows you to take a little bit m- more control of your life so that you could find balance, if you need balance. Or if you're like, "I'm too stuck in the center, how do I move out of the center," right? 'Cause that might be something that you need as well.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:06:44

        The final paragraph in your book is really, really beautiful. I just wanted to read it here. "Learning to breathe is like learning to live. The smallest details hold the most significance. A single step in an epic adventure carries with it all the subtleties of experience that we have gained along the way. The destination is just one more step in the perpetual cycle of inhalations and exhalations. Each breath contains all the potential of life, and we can't hold either one forever. Maybe by learning to breathe, we can discover living. We're guaranteed only two breaths in this life, our first and our last. We can waste every breath merely existing, or we can use every breath to create meaning and experience the true miracle of living."Sick way to finish a book, man.

    15. DWDylan Werner1:07:26

        Thanks. (laughs)

    16. CWChris Williamson1:07:27

        Really good.

    17. DWDylan Werner1:07:27

        Yeah. Uh, spoiler alert. No. (laughs)

    18. CWChris Williamson1:07:30

        (laughs) Yeah, exactly. That's it. That, and then, and he dies at the end.

    19. DWDylan Werner1:07:33

        That's it.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:07:33

        He dies at the end.

    21. DWDylan Werner1:07:34

        Yeah, and then he dies at the end.

    22. CWChris Williamson1:07:35

        Um-

    23. DWDylan Werner1:07:36

        Yeah.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:07:36

        ... you were gonna show us a breath practice, and maybe people who aren't-

    25. DWDylan Werner1:07:40

        Oh, yeah, um-

    26. CWChris Williamson1:07:40

        ... aren't driving or operating heavy machinery could follow along at home.

    27. DWDylan Werner1:07:43

        Right. You could do, you could do part of this operating heavy machinery. In fact, that's, that's the thing about the, the breath practice, you could pretty much do it anywhere, right? Where, like, um, I... This, this sounds pretty bad, but I don't... Like, when I do my breath practice in the morning, I'm not, like... Uh, I do a meditation practice. I get up, I get out of my bed, I have, I have this beautiful view of the jungle. I o- I open up my curtains, I have a, I have a seat at the foot of my bed where it's elevated up, and I sit there and I do my 30 minutes of meditation. Then I go downstairs and I prop myself up on the couch, which is right here, and then I look at the TV, which is right there, and I do my, my 45 minutes to an hour athletic performance while I'm watching the news (laughs) or catching up, like, as... You know, being in Bali, I want to see what's going on in the rest of the world. Less now that Trump's out of office, but it's still pretty interesting, but also because of COVID.

    28. CWChris Williamson1:08:46

        Ameri- Americas season three is gonna be so boring now that he's gone. He was the only good character in it.

    29. DWDylan Werner1:08:52

        Yeah, for sure. I'm, like, the... I kinda got addicted to the crazy drama. But yeah, so I do-

    30. CWChris Williamson1:08:58

        Did you see... Sorry, did you see that the, the news anchors had done a little campaign, Make News Boring Again?

Episode duration: 1:31:47