Modern WisdomJames Sexton, Matt McCusker & Rick Glassman - Mostly Wise #4
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,023 words- 0:00 – 8:16
The Problem With Blowjobs and Granola
- CWChris Williamson
People of the UK and Ireland, I'm coming to you live. Imagine that, me on stage in your city. Dublin is completely sold out, but everywhere else has got limited tickets left, and you can get yours now at chriswilliamson.live. This is a custom-built live show. I absolutely adore it. I've spent over a year working on it. So if you're a fan of everything Modern Wisdom, come and see me on stage this October around the UK and Ireland, chriswilliamson.live.
- SPSpeaker
You're like a regular here now.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah, man.
- SPSpeaker
Congratulations on the gig, man.
- RGRick Glassman
Thank you, bro. Appreciate it.
- SPSpeaker
Is he paying you?
- RGRick Glassman
No. Why don't we figure it out then? Don't worry about it, man.
- SPSpeaker
He only comes with council presence.
- RGRick Glassman
I'm a half owner in Neutonic now.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, that's it.
- CWChris Williamson
Wow. What's your problem with blowjobs and granola? I keep on hearing you-
- SPSpeaker
My problem with blowjobs and-
- CWChris Williamson
... with blowjobs and granola
- SPSpeaker
... It's no problem at all. No. It's bl- it's, it's, so blow- bl- this is like, this story blew up. So I, I was representing a woman, and she... I'd been a lot of miles with her. It was an ugly divorce. She was like a successful, you know, finance person in New York City, very put together, two kids, husband who was in finance. Husband was kind of a train wreck. We didn't realize it. He was getting like a big bonus check every year, and he, unbeknownst to her, was just putting it in his secret bank account that she didn't know about and then going to Vegas and just blowing it up, couple hundred thou- This guy, like I... If I could like go back in time, I would love to have seen this guy's nights out in Vegas. 'Cause when I finally got the receipts and stuff of it, he was blowing like a buck 50, 200,000 in one night at like Tao, like just shirt off on the, you know, with bottles like crazy.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- SPSpeaker
She had no idea. And, um, so ugly divorce 'cause we had to prove wasteful dissipation of marital assets, try to get one half of that back.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, sorry, sl- wasteful-
- SPSpeaker
Wasteful dissipation of marital assets
- RGRick Glassman
Unwasteful dissipation of party assets. Yeah, balling out basically.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Balling, balling without license.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, it's burning, burning money that was supposed to be marital money-
- RGRick Glassman
Right, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... and you get it half back.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
That's your understanding of it.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Wait, wait, what do you mean, when, when you say marital money, like what's that mean?
- SPSpeaker
I- I, uh, I didn't know you wore a, a vest.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, it's hot.
- 8:16 – 13:39
Why Being a Divorce Lawyer Is Surprisingly Sexy
- SPSpeaker
blew up. Now, what is the sexual tension like in these meetings when you're sitting with a woman who's probably scorned in some capacity?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Is thinking about, like, telling you all of her husband's weaknesses-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... and shortcomings.
- SPSpeaker
And you're like the knight in shining armor-
- SPSpeaker
Exactly
- SPSpeaker
... who is gonna, like, save her from it
- SPSpeaker
... yeah, you're, you're a lawyer standing in front of her being like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... "Yeah, what a fucking jerk."
- SPSpeaker
Um, they, they definitely get, like, a crush on you.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But you would never find a woman attractive when you're her divorce lawyer, 'cause you just see the absolute worst parts of, like-
- SPSpeaker
Don't you wanna see that now? I would love if a first date was showing up-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... as like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... "Hey, this is what, this is what it's like when it's bad."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And like, "Oh, I could handle that."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah, it'd be gr- I mean, it would probably be really healthy to see upfront, like, okay, what's this gonna look like on the really, like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, when we get divorced. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
That's why I'm really rude on first dates.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. No, there is some-
- CWChris Williamson
I would say start as you, start at the end and work backward from there.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So begin with divorce level-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I think when you first-
- SPSpeaker
That's why I'm really rude on first dates.
- 13:39 – 17:07
Who is Fred Rogers?
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah. I watched the, the, the ... Somebody put up on, like, a clip of, like, Mister Rogers at the, like, the Emmys. Yeah, that's been going around. It's been going around. Oh, I saw the one at, in the court. Oh, okay. No, this was, like, him, like, like, giving an acceptance speech at the Emmys, and it was, like, this beautiful clip of him. Like, he just had this ability to say the simplest thing and make everyone in the room cry from how beautiful it was. Yeah. 'Cause it was just, like, the most basic sentiment where he was like, "I, I just ... Everyone who's here, if you could just take a minute and think about a person who helped you get here today, how proud that person must be that you're thinking of them." Mm. And you're listening to it, and you're all like [gasps] , you know. But it, it ... I just ... I, I don't know. Like, I don't think there could be another Fred Rogers. Like, he- I don't know who Mister Rogers is. That explains a lot about you. I think that- You don't know Mister Rogers' Neighborhood? He's the most, like, British American person we've ever had. Instead of shaming him, why don't you just tell him? Mm. Then he does know. How do you tell someone who Mister Rogers is? For a long time, I thought Mister Rogers was the guy that narrated his own painting tutorials. No. Bob Ross. Close. Bob Ross. Yes. That's Bob Ross. Similar energy though. Similar. Yeah, similar calm vibe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He's like ... The way I can describe him, he is, like, a very ... He's not a pedophile. Yeah. That's always a great disclaimer up front. He's not, but he, like ... I, some of them, it's weird. Like, he, like, comes in every day, takes his- He says that because he loves children, and I think that's why he like needed to say that. That's the, this is the worst description I have ever heard of who Fred Rogers is. He's not a ... I'm saying he's not a pedophile. Yes. The guy is not a pedophile. Okay. But pedophile-adjacent in image At all. But if you would- No. No. No. This is a terrible description. Why is ... Okay. This side of the table- This is a terrible ... He's also not Chinese ... academic here. If you found out- I mean. If you found out he was- Can't say that. Can't say that ... if you had f- Okay ... apparently he's like the best guy in the world. So he, he believed that, that, uh, life, uh, comes with pain and sadness and anger. And instead of pretending it doesn't or trying to coddle children into thinking like, "Hey, you'll be safe," it's to ... It's basically teaching them, uh, about self-regulation, and your feelings are important and valid. And if you're hurt, you're allowed to be hurt. You're supposed to be hurt. What do we do with that hurt? And in- Like the anti-David Goggins. Yes. He was kind of- Yeah ... he was, he was teaching children to have a basic emotional vocabulary- Yeah ... in a way that no one else was. In, in, in a very beautiful way to where though it was directed for children, uh, depending on where you are in your, in your life's journey, you'll probably still discover tools if you don't adopt them exactly, but questions to ask of like, "Oh, that's interesting. I, I am projecting this. I am, I am ... I don't know where to put this feeling." And instead of, like, swallowing it and, like, just not needing it, just, like, acknowledge it. And it, it really ... Like, he's, he's beautiful. He's wonderful. Yeah. But he starts the show by taking his shoes off every single time. Which is, which is where I got the name of my podcast, Take Your Shoes Off. Really? So you're a, you're a big Mister Rogers head. That's the cardigan. True. It's an homage. I didn't know anything. I just- It's not really a reference ... I remember his show. He was a guy who would come sit down and take his shoes off, and I'd be like, "Ugh," and I would change the channel as a little boy. A lot of people judge it. A lot of people thought he was just some, like, this little, uh, sappy kids show. I think some people, although the Muppets now get a little bit more respect, but- Muppets are, Muppets are better than Mister Rogers for sure, 100%. Jim Henson- Also not a pedophile ... loved that. Not a pedophile at all. Yeah. Just wanted to just- Just to [laughs] ... you know, lead. I just feel like we now need to identify everyone- Well, everyone's, everyone's getting- Yeah. [laughs] Yeah ... you did need to lead with that for Mister Rogers. Yeah, yeah. And I'm wondering why. No, he did. He said that for Jim Henson. O- okay. Mis- ... Yeah. He's ... Well, I'm just saying he's just, he's not either. It's just- Let's just f- f- moving forward- Everyone's getting called ... if someone's a pedophile- Yeah [laughs] ... we'll identify that first. The null hypothesis is- Everyone else, just assume they're not a pedophile. 'Cause I feel like the stories are gonna get, they're gonna start so weird for
- 17:07 – 20:29
Do People Hide Their Friendship With James?
- RGRick Glassman
the rest of this. Yeah. I have a question. I have a question. So we went for dinner the other night, and I wonder whether people who are friends with you or become friends with you, whether they need to hide their friendship from, from being friends with you. Yeah. Because I went for dinner with Luke the other night, and he wasn't sure whether or not he should tell his wife. Yeah. Because you're away for a couple of days in New York on a business trip, and when she says, "Oh, did you ... Where did you go for dinner? Who did you go out with?" And you say, "I went out with one of the biggest divorce attorneys in New York City," the optics- Yeah ... about being your friend- Yeah ... publicly when married- Yeah ... I think has bad optics. Do you- Yeah ... is this something that you have to navigate? You know, I don't have a lot of friendships, so that's, like, I, that's makes it easy. Cool. Like, it kinda makes it easy. No, I don't, I don't really have a lot of- That's why you're on that side of the table ... yeah, I don't, I have, like, a lot of, um- It's a setup ... I don't have a lot of room for, for, for, like, socializing. I think that was, like, the first time I've gone out to dinner with someone in, in a while. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think what- Who paid? What's that? Who paid the bill? I think you did. Yeah. Yeah, you did. Never stop working. [laughs] But it was one of those things, like, we grabbed the check- Yeah. Gotta negotiate it ... and it was kind of a- Yeah ... I don't know. It was a speed shooter- It was ... situation. Yeah. I've, I've- You pay for the bill- Would we do those, like- ... he gets the house ... things like that? I, I like to try, yeah. Yeah. I always try to, like, like, get, go to the restroom and then give it to the- She won't even, she won't even finish her dinner ... waiter or- That's the s- that's the, uh, like, Irish goodbye equivalent- Huberman did that ... of paying the bill. Huberman did that the other night
- SPSpeaker
We're out to dinner and he-
- RGRick Glassman
You snake it from the-
- SPSpeaker
He, he, they brought the thing over with his card. And I was like, "What the fuck was that?"
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And he was like, "Oh, I got it while I was down there."
- RGRick Glassman
That's clever. That's, that's a, that's a great idea.
- SPSpeaker
He knew. He knew it was gonna be a thing.
- RGRick Glassman
You know what I do? I have a move now where I go to the, to the server, uh, at the beginning and I say, "Will you go to..." And I give the order of like, "Talk to you first, and then maybe you, then you," and say, uh, "Ask if they wanna secretly pay the bill." And like, a lot of times they say yes, and then they pay the bill. And when it comes I'm like, "What the... I mean, you could've let me... What are we doing here?"
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
They really get-
- RGRick Glassman
I, I do it, I t- I do it often.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
That's a solid move.
- RGRick Glassman
And then I go, and I go, "If I knew you were gonna split the bill, I would've gotten the filet." [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- RGRick Glassman
And everyone laughs and...
- SPSpeaker
It's a good move.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You've got bits at dinner now. You've got like entire sl- small structured segments.
- RGRick Glassman
I have a fake ear in my pocket, buddy. What do you think? And no friends.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
I got bits.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And he's not a pedophile.
- RGRick Glassman
I-
- CWChris Williamson
Not, not-
- 20:29 – 26:28
Why James Tailors Every Case to the Judge
- RGRick Glassman
Do you, do you, do you face, like, the, the divorces, this might be a dumb question-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- RGRick Glassman
... but do they ever go to jury? A divorce?
- SPSpeaker
There's no such thing as jury work. It's all bench trials.
- RGRick Glassman
What's that?
- SPSpeaker
So you don't-
- RGRick Glassman
What is that?
- SPSpeaker
It's just the judge decides.
- RGRick Glassman
You and the judge.
- SPSpeaker
You're persuading the judge, yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
There's one member of the audience and they're wearing a black robe and that's it. And it's, that's the only person you're going for.
- RGRick Glassman
Gotcha.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, theoretically, like, I feel like I'm trying to manipulate everybody in the room-
- RGRick Glassman
For sure
- SPSpeaker
... because I feel like the court reporter, the court officer, like, each of those people, they're gonna, when we leave the courtroom, they're gonna go with the judge.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And I feel like they're gonna say like, "Yeah, Sexton was like kind of a dick," or-
- RGRick Glassman
Do you, do you have a-
- SPSpeaker
You know? So I want them to, to f- all feel good about me
- RGRick Glassman
... do you have, like, an alternate playbook for like, you know, if you have, like, a lady judge or just like a normal judge?
- SPSpeaker
Totally. Totally. And, and I think there's an old-
- RGRick Glassman
A little stubble for a lady judge
- SPSpeaker
... joke that a good lawyer knows the law, a great lawyer knows the judge.
- RGRick Glassman
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
But what I think they really mean by that is like you know, like there's some judges that, like, I know they're really into sports.
- RGRick Glassman
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
So I'll infuse my arguments with like, "Yeah, the, your Honor, counsel's throwing a Hail Mary pass on that one," or, "Your Honor, he's trying to do an end run around the rules of evidence." Like, and you try to, like, play with... Some judges, like, you know, okay, they like the show.
- RGRick Glassman
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Like they like the performance, so they want me to go in and be snide and cross-examine someone and do the like, you know, "You can't handle the truth" kind of a thing. And some of them, they're like, they don't like that at all, and you need to go in and be very like, "Yes, Your Honor."
- 26:28 – 30:06
Does James Ever Feel Guilty About Winning?
- SPSpeaker
Do you ever feel guilty? Like if you've absolutely torn someone a new one, like just totally decimated? No. No. No guilt? Never. No emotion? No. No, it's, I mean, I don't always believe in the client. Like, I represent the client and I represent the system. I don't always believe in the client, but I believe in the system. Like, I believe in the idea of zeal- I don't know what that means, but it seems like it gets you off the hook. No, I think that, I think that we, our system is designed, our legal system is designed with the presumption of innocence, and it's the burden of proof, the concept of the burden of proof, and the right to zealous advocacy within the bounds of the law. So, like there's a rule set. There's a rules of how evidence gets brought in. You can't go into court and say, "I talked to someone who mentioned to me that he saw this guy do this thing." Mm. Like there, there's, you have to be able to confront your accuser on cross-examination. You get to, like only certain types of evidence are competent, credible evidence, so we have rules, and I, I like those rules. The truth has a way of coming out, sometimes despite my best efforts. Like, people pay me a lot of money to go in sometimes and just throw up smoke and mirrors and red herrings, and there's only so much I can do, 'cause the facts have a way of coming out. Like a mediocre at best lawyer armed with real facts is gonna kick my ass, because the facts just have a way of coming out sometimes. There's not mu- you can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. Playing on the margins a little. Yeah, so. Natural. But, but to do a, like a very so- like all that facts are in a trial is, is like ingredients, and a good chef can take, you know, great ingredients and make something incredible out of, but you can't like make something amazing out of garbage ingredients. So I don't feel guilty about it 'cause I, I think that I believe in the way we do it. I think we have... You know, it's like our, our legal system's like our democracy. It's the worst one except for all the other ones. Like, I think it's, we, we have a good model and it works. Mm.
- RGRick Glassman
You put lipstick on a pig, it's a lady.
- SPSpeaker
It's a lady judge maybe. [laughs] Oh.
- RGRick Glassman
I don't, I don't condone that.
- SPSpeaker
That's gonna cost him a drink. Ooh.
- RGRick Glassman
I don't condone that. So you said y- you're playing the game, and you know, you're not, you don't feel guilty because these are the rules that we all have to abide by. Do you think there's any tr- any significance in the analogy of like some games, like a sport, some people come in with a, a stronger advantage than another?
- SPSpeaker
Sure.
- RGRick Glassman
And like when you're playing a game of basketball and you're up 25 points with one minute left, you don't go and just keep scoring. You kinda hold the ball out of respect.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Is there anything to that?
- SPSpeaker
I try to be a respectful adversary. I mean, I, the, I've had times where I could humiliate opposing counsel and I choose not to 'cause I just do-
- RGRick Glassman
Opposing counsel
- SPSpeaker
... as much as I need to do.
- RGRick Glassman
Is, is counsel the other lawyer?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, the other lawyer. Yeah, the other lawyer.
- RGRick Glassman
Oh, interesting.
- SPSpeaker
That's my adversary.
- RGRick Glassman
Right, you're playing the lawyer.
- SPSpeaker
I'm, yeah, that's, that's my competition. That's who I'm fighting. Like they're-
- RGRick Glassman
That's where the darkness is.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Well, I feel like that, that's like saying you're not allowed to punch too hard if you're in the MMA cage. That person stepped into this.
- RGRick Glassman
No, you're not allowed to punch too hard once they're already knocked out.
- SPSpeaker
Well, you wanna pun- yeah, you wanna stop punching once they're down. But there is no down.
- RGRick Glassman
Yes, there is. The judge calls it.
- SPSpeaker
Right, but it's down-
- RGRick Glassman
For the ref
- SPSpeaker
... at least where the empathy or the sympathy that I thought you were talking about is that for the cl- the other person's client, like being too mean in cross-examination- Yeah ... like doing stuff to them, 'cause they're a real person. Well, you have to- As opposed to you ... you f- first of all, what I'll, what I'll tell you is- And your competitors ... you have to earn the right to beat up a witness. I tell young lawyers who work for me that all the time. Like, you cannot go in and just start cross-examining someone to death. Like, you have to start soft and get them to commit to principles, and then you have to just, once-
- RGRick Glassman
That's-
- SPSpeaker
You just snap their neck with it. Like you have to-
- RGRick Glassman
Damn
- 30:06 – 42:13
Does Rick Need to Have More Casual Sex?
- SPSpeaker
Really?
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You would shrink. I've heard you say, I've heard you say that you can't be intimate unless you're in love with someone.
- RGRick Glassman
Not true, but I have a different-
- SPSpeaker
Hang on. So did you not say that?
- RGRick Glassman
I never said that. I said I don't ha- I have to, I have to l- I have to like somebody. I don't have, I said I, I don't have to... So if I, I, I, I don't have sex with people that I sometimes would want to from a superficial s- place. Like, oh, we're, maybe we're making out and this person, I'm very attracted to them, but if I don't feel a connection with the person, I'm literally not able to maintain an erection.
- SPSpeaker
Did your therapist or did they not suggest that you try and have more- ... casual sex with people?
- RGRick Glassman
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
How is that working out?
- RGRick Glassman
This was like 10, tw- this was 2016. I tried it for a couple of years. Um-
- SPSpeaker
Why did they say that to you?
- RGRick Glassman
I mean, I could tell you the answer to this. It'll probably take a few minutes, so you guys could interrupt, or I could not say it.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- RGRick Glassman
But I, I, I mean, I feel like that's not what people tune in-
- SPSpeaker
Was it psy- was it like psychoanalysis, or?
- SPSpeaker
I'm in. I, I actually find it very interesting.
- RGRick Glassman
Sure. So, so at the time I was, I was going through a breakup where the, m- my partner, my ex-partner had slept with a lot more people than me. I don't think the feeling was jealousy. I'm sure there was something there. I, I... Th- but it wasn't, like, I didn't think anything was wrong. What I felt was from a, like, a, a kid-like feeling. I noticed that, like, I felt like, "Oh, she's cooler than me." I don't... Logically, I don't think that's what makes somebody cool. But at that point in my life, I had not had casual sex, and my partner had. And I'm like, "Man, that's cool." And I had been in positions where I was too scared to sleep with somebody. Whether it's performance anxiety or I don't like this person, whatever it is, I wasn't in touch with at the time. So in therapy, we had this conversation of, like, well, maybe if I slept with more people, I would think I was cooler, or I would notice that's not what makes somebody cooler. I had questions, and I didn't have answers. "So why don't you try sleeping with people?" And it's like, I, I genuinely was, like, doing that for the data. Does that make sense? Like, I was like, "How will I feel after sleeping with somebody?" And what I... So then I went through a few years where I was, like, trying to do this, and I noticed sometimes I enjoyed it, and sometimes I felt like I had erectile dysfunction. And like, there's... And also, like, you're wearing condoms, and that's tougher in there, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then that kind of fed itself where I was kind of sc- I, I was starting to get performance anxiety. I never had that before.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- RGRick Glassman
And I was starting to get performance anxiety. And then I, I remember I... This is a longer story, but, like, somebody, like, convinced me to sleep with them. Like, I didn't want to. She was in the neighborhood. I'm like, "I don't, I don't think I... I'm just, please let me just come..." It's like what you would fantasize about if you were, like, somebody else. Like, "Let me just come do this." And I'm like-
- SPSpeaker
She's like a strong negotiator.
- RGRick Glassman
Sh- yeah.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Amazing.
- RGRick Glassman
She's a strong negotiator.
- SPSpeaker
Like the Chris Voss of pussy.
- SPSpeaker
You should recruit her.
- SPSpeaker
You know what I mean?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Like, that's amazing.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah.
- 42:13 – 54:31
Why Funny and Attractive Is So Hard to Find
- CWChris Williamson
Aw, that's cute.
- SPSpeaker
That's nice.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, another thing that I've heard you say.
- RGRick Glassman
Rick.
- CWChris Williamson
Yes, Rick.
- RGRick Glassman
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Another thing that I've heard you say. Do you think it's weird, like, when you drop someone's name that you know during a conversation that you're in the middle of?
- SPSpeaker
Yes. Feels strange.
- CWChris Williamson
You're like, "Rick, let me tell you something that I've noticed about you."
- SPSpeaker
It feels like you're a salesman or a psychologist.
- RGRick Glassman
True. Close friends would never do that.
- CWChris Williamson
You read way too much, like, how to win friends and influence people.
- RGRick Glassman
It's funny that you said that, Matt.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
I mean that.
- SPSpeaker
It feels like a sales technique.
- RGRick Glassman
I like you.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Uh, you've said it's hard, so you found it hard sometimes to find someone who is both funny and you're attracted to.
- RGRick Glassman
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Is... Before you fucking accuse me of misquoting you, is that one correct?
- RGRick Glassman
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Why? What do you think? What do you think is happening there?
- RGRick Glassman
Uh, well, in a similar, in a similar thing to the you could afford to be stupider-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- RGRick Glassman
The better l- this is a blanketed statement, but the better looking somebody is in their developmental years, the less need, not that it's impossible, but the less needed it is for them to learn how to connect with people in a way where they offer value. So if you're beautiful, you offer value. If you're not, what's your value? Now, that's not necessarily the case, but, like, when you see a really, really funny, really, really good-looking guy, chances are he was fat when he was younger. Is that fair to say?
- SPSpeaker
Very fair.
- RGRick Glassman
Or was a magician.
- SPSpeaker
Unpopular.
- RGRick Glassman
Whatever it might be. I don't think you're funny. In fact, you couldn't even get me hard.
- SPSpeaker
Oh.
- 54:31 – 58:50
Are Modern Dating Standards Getting Ridiculous?
- CWChris Williamson
Did you see that tech exec lady who shared her non-negotiable dating, uh, uh, req- requirements on Twitter? Did you see this? It trended like fuck the other day.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So this Brooke LeBlanc girl tweeted, "Who wants to co-found the rest of my life with me?" She wrote out a list of what she's looking for and then said, "X work your magic." Oh, here it is. Uh, "Non-negotiables 35 to 42 years old, healthy masculine, smart, funny, light-hearted, provider/protector mentality, post-economic, brackets still hardworking."
- SPSpeaker
What the hell does that mean?
- SPSpeaker
That means you have enough money that you don't have to be working, but you're working.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, you can live off your... Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, must be kind, generous, thoughtful. No kids yet. Decidedly wants kids. On the healing path. History of serious commitment. Ex-therapist, books, retreats. Can meet anywhere, but will not date unless live in the same city. Fit and sober because you care about your health. Strongly preferred, no previous marriages or engagements. Works in tech, brackets comfortable with risk and career is blended into personal life.
- SPSpeaker
Well, in five years I'll match all of those things, so.
- SPSpeaker
Is she pretty and funny?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, she deleted her Twitter after the response this got.
- SPSpeaker
Really?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. I mean, this went-
- SPSpeaker
People, were people mad about it or were they like, "This is great"?
- CWChris Williamson
Mixed, mixed reviews. I do wanna try and work out how many men on the planet that is.
- SPSpeaker
It'd be an unbelievably small number.
- SPSpeaker
How old is she?
- CWChris Williamson
29.
- SPSpeaker
Just the post economic-
- CWChris Williamson
She's 29
- SPSpeaker
... the post economic, still hardworking would be it.
- SPSpeaker
What makes post economic? How much money do I have to have? Because that's, that one, and depending on what city she lives in, and me only being 30.
- SPSpeaker
I think you get 50,000 per million dollars you have invested. Is that true?
- SPSpeaker
Well, if you were 35 to 42-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... and you no longer had to work, then let's say-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, but it depends on your lifestyle. Like I could do that now if I, you know, just flew economy plus.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, but if you want to marry, have children-
- SPSpeaker
Which I would never do
- SPSpeaker
... do all those things. Like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, dude. I invested really well when I was young.
- 58:50 – 1:04:31
The Craziest Prenup Clause James Has Ever Seen
- SPSpeaker
you know?
- SPSpeaker
What, this is a question I've had and I've never had it answered. In terms of like, so say you have like a, a, you know, super successful, super rich man.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Like, it's easy to figure out what they see for themselves, how they would enjoy their money and wealth alone as a bachelor.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
How do you think a super successful rich woman on say like 40s, 40, 50s side of life, how do they tend to like display and enjoy their wealth if they-
- CWChris Williamson
A Nancy Meyers kitchen.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Like a, like a Lacanche oven, or they travel, a lot of travel.
- SPSpeaker
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
Beautiful home, big yard.
- SPSpeaker
A lot of luxury goods. W- women, women, um, success- like when we do prenups for very successful wealthy women in New York, the amount of like luxury goods that they have is usually through the roof, like Birkin bags, you know, things that are 20, $30,000 a pop.
- CWChris Williamson
Is it more watches, cars, houses maybe for guys?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah. Women are not as into the watches. It's like we do, you know, we've had clients-
- SPSpeaker
Men also like collectibles
- SPSpeaker
... million-dollar wine collections, million dollar, couple million dollar watch collections.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Like men, men collect stuff like that. There's a, there's a, this, I think that tweet is emblematic of a, there's, there's a lot of like w- the internet is spending a lot of time gassing women up about the like you're a queen, you're a boss, you're a boss babe, like you deserve like you deserve the best out there, you deserve... Whereas men are, I don't think as many men are being told like you deserve a queen. Like it's sort of a, you know, like just shut up, dude. You deserve, like have a woman. Like you can have a woman.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I think there's a lot, I, I see it in prenups. Like I'm doing, you know, a lot of prenups right now, and the list of like demands that women are coming in with of like oh, this is what... 'Cause women tend to, and this is fact, like women tend to marry even or up.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Like economically. Men usually down. Like they don't, men, like if you say to most men, "Tell me the three things you're looking for in a woman that you want to be serious with," she's a good provider is never cracks even the top 10. Whereas-
- SPSpeaker
Provider means economics, not family?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Provider meaning economically. Like, like I want a good earner. Like most-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... most men would not say in the top five things. They'd say, "Oh, I want someone pretty. I want someone who's thoughtful. I want someone who'd be good with kids. I want someone who's gonna be supportive of me. You know, I want somebody who's good in bed."
- SPSpeaker
My grandpa used to say, uh, he didn't give me advice on relationships ever. The only thing that came close is he used to say marry someone wealthy. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I mean, listen, I think that, you know, the, the, the-
- SPSpeaker
My dad said, he used to say that
- 1:04:31 – 1:13:42
What Are Women Demanding in Prenups?
- SPSpeaker
apologize.
- CWChris Williamson
There's a, there's a guy who is being dragged online at the moment. His wife was carrying kids-
- RGRick Glassman
I saw that today
- CWChris Williamson
... food, drink. We have to watch this. It's the funniest thing I've seen. So you're talking about, like, women, you deserve it all. Well, this is, in some ways, a woman who got it all, uh, but she's stuck in the stands at a sports game. Uh, here it is.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, she, oh, wow, okay. She got the diaper bag. She's got the kid.
- SPSpeaker
Have a multitasking mother. That is the-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, look. Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... that is the deal right there
- CWChris Williamson
... his phone's plugged in. That makes a quite a big difference, 'cause he's out of charge
- SPSpeaker
I think she's a, an Olympic champion. Did I just hear that guy say-
- SPSpeaker
She's got three plates
- SPSpeaker
... she forget something?
- CWChris Williamson
She forget something. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
God.
- SPSpeaker
You know those little packets you-
- SPSpeaker
So he's getting, he's getting kinda-
- SPSpeaker
... stuff it in your pocket and shake it
- CWChris Williamson
So he's like modern Kevin Federline.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, well, like, I mean, look.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, these mu- they went back to him? Ah.
- CWChris Williamson
Went back to him, buddy.
- SPSpeaker
Oh.
- SPSpeaker
My goodness. Are you kidding me? Camber babes. She'll be the last one to eat, too.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, he's complaining about his meal. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Did you forget something?
- SPSpeaker
Let's try again.
- SPSpeaker
He's getting the king treatment. Oh, man.
- SPSpeaker
She said, "How long did it take you?"
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, that's, uh... I'll see that every now and again, though. When I fly, you'll see the women carrying all the gear sometimes.
- RGRick Glassman
I offer to, I offer to help. I'm, uh, often, almost every time.
- 1:13:42 – 1:17:06
Can You Tell Your Partner They’ve Gained Weight?
- CWChris Williamson
On the your partner gains 50 pounds thing, if your partner gains 50 pounds and you're no longer attracted to them, do you think that you're allowed to say it? Like, how do you broach that subject?
- SPSpeaker
I think you have an obligation to say it.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I think you have an obligation to say it.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah, I think you have an obligation to say... There, there's tact, I agree.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
And it's not, uh, just about the weight. I mean, that's a very-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- RGRick Glassman
... pointed way of doing it. But, like, I would want a partner to keep me accountable with certain things. Not that that's their job, but that is a value add. I, and I've had that in, in relationships where it's like, "Do you really need to eat that?" I'm serious. Like, they're not saying don't eat that or can't, and there's no shame involved. It is looking out for my best interest.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- RGRick Glassman
And I think there's something very superficial about the looks department, but there's health involved to it and an attraction involved to it. And, uh, hey, you know, I, I, I'm, I'm noticing I'm not... Like, if a, if my partner said, "I, I, you're, I, you're very good-looking. I'm still attracted to you. I love you so much. I just, like, you haven't been taking care of yourself in a certain way and I just gotta be honest with you."
- CWChris Williamson
That's a lie because you, they've gained 50 pounds. You're no longer attracted.
- RGRick Glassman
But before they gained 50 pounds, they gained 10.
- CWChris Williamson
I get it in there early.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, see, I think what people need to do in relationship and the, the, the mistake that most of the people who end up sitting across from me, what they didn't do, is when things change, because they will change-
- SPSpeaker
No more deal
- SPSpeaker
... like, you, you have to say like, "You know, hey, let's notice that this changed." Like, and just point it out. Like, I think it's the difference between a relationship that's designed and a relationship that's on default. Like, like, w- okay, we're not having sex as much as we used to. Let's just point that out. Maybe it's that our sex drives have changed. Maybe we got kids now and it's like, you know, we're both a little all over the place. Or maybe it's... What, like, it could be any number of things. Maybe you're not feeling great about your body, I'm not feeling great about... Whatever it might be. But, like, let's just say it out loud because maybe we're both okay with it. Like, like, maybe you're putting on weight and you're like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm just, like, not stressed about exercise anymore and I just feel like I want to take a break from that and I want to just like, you know, put on some..." Okay. Like, maybe it's just something that we're just gonna both be cool with and we'll talk about it that way.
- CWChris Williamson
You already have identified based on my example that you're not cool with it.
- SPSpeaker
Well, and, and-
- CWChris Williamson
Like, A
- SPSpeaker
... but I think before it's 50 pounds. I think it would be like-
- CWChris Williamson
You don't know
- SPSpeaker
... hey, what's going on? Like, things are changing and I just want to point out that they're changing. And is there, is that something that's gonna have an impact on us long term?
- CWChris Williamson
Can guys-
- RGRick Glassman
Also, is the change coming from a medical thing? Is it coming from-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- RGRick Glassman
... a lack of effort?
- SPSpeaker
Like, what's happening?
- SPSpeaker
Also, can guys pay you to do that for them?
- SPSpeaker
I mean, people have paid me to almost anything.
- 1:17:06 – 1:28:19
Are Personal Politics Ruining Relationships?
- SPSpeaker
feelings in relationship.
- CWChris Williamson
I, I wonder how many, uh, how many marriages have dissolved due to a Love Island argument. Because there was some marriages that didn't happen because of the Lindsey Clancy case.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
There were some people that got divorced.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah. It's a tough one.
- CWChris Williamson
And then there were some people that were like, "I thought that this was my person. We were about to go down the aisle, and we couldn't agree on the Lindsey Clancy thing." And that was, you know, that was the deal breaker.
- SPSpeaker
Dude, the Tr- the Trump thing. Once, 2016.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
2016, like, we got a lot of people in, like, 2017, 2018 getting divorced because it was like somebody went very far right. And, like, the MAGA thing, and it was like the, the wife was very progressive liberal. A lot of women's spaces are very progressive liberal in their leanings, and the guys were feeling very seen and understood by, like, a right-wing movement, and it created this tremendous tension where it was like it couldn't just be we have different poli-... My dad was a Reagan conservative Naval Academy graduate. My mom was, like, so far left she was, like, a Marxist practically. And they were married for, like, 50 plus years. And I had no choice but to see both sides of every argument and become a lawyer, I think. Because they were just... They didn't agree on any political issues, but they absolutely cared about each other, loved each other, were committed to having, like, the same f- concept of a family. Like, but I, I really think that, that we've now created this thing where it's not enough that I disagree with your politics. You're Hitler, you know? Or you're, like, the worst per-... And I just think that that's, that's very, very bad in a relationship.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you think about people that are making politics, like, a central reason to-
- SPSpeaker
It's so sad. I think it's, like, the saddest thing ever when they're just like, like, the v- like, the families that don't talk to each other now.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It's, it's, it's terrible.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Also, I don't, even though I, I don't, I just, I've ignored it my whole life. Like, I don't, politics I don't really care at all.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And it hasn't affected me. Like, there's, I can't think of a thing that I'd be like, "Oh man, if I'd only voted." It's like, I, it doesn't affect me.
- SPSpeaker
Well-
- SPSpeaker
And if it affects you, get involved. I don't care.
- SPSpeaker
I, I think being a m-
- SPSpeaker
I never did. My dad never cared. He's always like, "Fuck that shit. Just go to work." And, and he's right. I think he's right.
- RGRick Glassman
Put some, put some fucking dirt on it.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. He's like, "Just go to work."
- CWChris Williamson
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- RGRick Glassman
What are the divorce rates? Um, 'cause you know every statistic. Of, like, did that even happen? Was it, uh, powerful enough with, like, the, the gold blue dress or whatever thing? Do you think that affected people's relationships?
- CWChris Williamson
The gold and blue dress thing?
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I have no idea. I mean, the law of large numbers means that if there's a big enough cohort of people that see anything, you get weird tail risk. Like, million-to-one odds happen eight times a day in New York City, right? 'Cause there's just so many people that random shit happens. So maybe someone did, but I, I mean, the Lindsey Clancy thing was publicized, that people fell out publicly.
- RGRick Glassman
And they asked a sample of how many people-
- CWChris Williamson
Well, they put it-
- 1:28:19 – 1:32:15
Did Donald Trump Really Miss His Son’s Wedding?
- SPSpeaker
know, he wore the exact thing. Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Did you see Don Jr.'s wedding? You did, 'cause this is maybe one of the most extravagant thi- I didn't even know that it had happened.
- SPSpeaker
No.
- RGRick Glassman
But it's been embroiled in a bunch of Russian billionaire people giving them money and stuff like that. So Russian oligarch with ties to Putin, Umar Kremlev, apparently covered hundreds of thousands of dollars of the expenses. Don Jr. and his wife said it was a gift from a friend and denied that it was a political move. The wedding cakes required five types of transport. Two cakes traveled by van, private plane, helicopter, golf cart, and boat. The three-day wedding and party were held across two private islands, costing over $100,000 per night to rent. The bride's reception outfit required 150 hours of embroidery. Donald Trump did not attend, saying, "This is not good timing for me. I have a thing called Iran and other things on."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- RGRick Glassman
He actually spent the day spamming Truth Social with AI memes.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- RGRick Glassman
Not, not very asset light.
- SPSpeaker
Asset heavy.
- RGRick Glassman
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Asset, big he- a- asset, big titty goth bitch.
- RGRick Glassman
I feel like you just did the impossible for me, which is I actually feel bad for Don Jr. right now. Like, I feel bad that his dad didn't fucking show up. Like, that's... I don't know. Doesn't that make you feel like, I, gosh. Like, you get married and you have, like, this ridiculous wedding and-
- SPSpeaker
I have a feeling that-
- RGRick Glassman
... he doesn't show up
- SPSpeaker
... he's used to his dad not showing up for things.
- RGRick Glassman
Sad, that's true. I know, but that-
- SPSpeaker
He's been conditioned from the-
- RGRick Glassman
That's a sad-
- SPSpeaker
That's what dads are to him
- RGRick Glassman
... oh, that's a sad image to me.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
You know? Like, it's like the kid waiting with the baseball glove. Like, it just feels like, dude, like-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- RGRick Glassman
... like maybe if I bring, like, a billionaire and I make it so cool, like, Dad will show up.
- SPSpeaker
Just have to put the cake on.
- RGRick Glassman
And meanwhile Dad's like, "Nah, I'm on Truth Social today." You know? Like-
- SPSpeaker
If I put the cake on five types of transport, then maybe Dad will come. I don't get it. I'm stupid.
- RGRick Glassman
They had, they had, the cake was what? Like, spread across five different things?
- SPSpeaker
It was just so big. I think that they needed-
- RGRick Glassman
Like, it was a massive-
- 1:32:15 – 1:42:09
Why Keeping Score Kills Relationships
- SPSpeaker
your soulmate.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you think about navigating that in a marriage? 'Cause you are living with this person all the time. You know, you're gonna see them a lot of the time stressed-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... stuff's going wrong. Like, how do you not have those flare-ups sort of, I don't know, seep into resentment and bitterness and stuff like that?
- SPSpeaker
It's, dude, it's literally that. It's like the resentment's the biggest one. Like, when I would catch myself, it took me years to figure this out, but I would catch myself when I'm not around that, I'm not around my wife being like, "Yeah, fucking she thinks..." And if I'm doing that cycle of like, "Yeah-
- CWChris Williamson
"She's about to..."
- SPSpeaker
"... oh yeah, I hope she, she fucking says..." And I'm like-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] Right
- SPSpeaker
... "Stop. Whatever this is, just stop." And then I just like... It's you can get really caught in this weird-
- CWChris Williamson
Story writing
- SPSpeaker
... once you start keeping score of like-
- CWChris Williamson
It's like a fantasy. It's like fantasist almost
- SPSpeaker
... dude, and, and it makes you feel horrible and angry all the time-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... where you have to just be like, you start to kind of accept the person and be like, "That's just a thing they have," like a t- Like, I, I would get nagged all the time, and I would be like, "Stop fucking nagging," and it would make me mad, and then it was just like, wait. 'Cause we went to marriage counseling and he was like, "Why, why do you get so mad about that?" And it was like-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... "'Cause she points out I did something wrong, I feel fucking horrible." And then he's like, "Yeah, but like, why do you feel that bad about it? Like, you don't care if the garage is up or down. Like, why if she says it do you all of a sudden care?" And I was like, "Damn, good call." So, like, now I c- I can, like, finally-
- CWChris Williamson
Great call
- SPSpeaker
... it's great, yeah, it was a great move. I can finally field a criticism and just if I, if I don't care about it, I'm like, "Okay."
- CWChris Williamson
It's hard to not take-
- SPSpeaker
Cool
- CWChris Williamson
... stuff like that personally, I guess.
- SPSpeaker
Dude, it... But the thing is, it would floor me. It would be like, "Did you open the mail?" I d- I didn't, I'd be, "Why the fuck do you care if I opened the mail?"
- CWChris Williamson
As opposed to just saying yes and letting it be.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, and being, "Yeah, I opened, I actually did open the mail. I don't care."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, but see, I think underneath that is something I think is incredibly romantic, and that is that you're like, you're... See, like, for, for me-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... as a man, most of the time when I'm angry, it's that I'm really sad.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- 1:42:09 – 1:46:35
Do Women Hold the Power in Sex?
- SPSpeaker
really all it is.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Have you ever seen that Futurama episode-
- SPSpeaker
It's true
- SPSpeaker
... where, uh, sex robots are invented, and all of society just grinds to a halt?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And they're like, "Oh, it does turn out that everything that guys were doing was just to get laid."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
- SPSpeaker
And if they can get laid on demand-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... like, everything's just stopped.
- SPSpeaker
It's over. Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It's game over.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. There's no five, there's no way to game the-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, and women, women have always been the gatekeepers of sex, like 100% of the time. And the example I've always given to this is that, like, like, women don't like shaving their legs. If all the women tomorrow said, "We're not shaving our legs anymore," are you telling me guys would be like, "Well, then we're not having sex with you"?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, definitely.
- SPSpeaker
Like, fuck that.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, can you-
- SPSpeaker
But there'd just be that one bitch. There'd just be that one who was like, "Wait, none of them are shaving their leg? Yeah, I'd shave my, I just like it. I do it for me. It's not even, I don't..."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And, and then all of a sudden they're hyper competitive with you.
- SPSpeaker
This is the same problem with UBI. It's the same problem.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
If everybody gets the same income, immediately-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SPSpeaker
... you want to separate yourself out from the thing that everybody's got.
- SPSpeaker
Right. Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Can you tell Matt that, uh, story of how you, uh, were convinced to shave on weekends by-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... ex-girlfriends?
- 1:46:35 – 1:50:55
Does Rick Always Call Out Unspoken Subtext?
- SPSpeaker
them back to that place.
- CWChris Williamson
I have, I have, I have a question. Rick, you seem to be the sort of person who in social situations sort of calls out the subtext, like the under- un- unspoken thing that's kind of in the air. How do you feel if you're at dinner with a couple and there's obviously an, an awful lot of tension between the two of them? Is that the sort of thing that's palpable to you? Does that make you uncomfortable? I say, what makes me-
- SPSpeaker
Are you talking to me?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. W- when I said your name at the very start, unless you've changed name.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, I was just being playful. I'm sorry for whatever I triggered, and I'm curious what it was.
- CWChris Williamson
Here we go.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
The... See, that's the fourth wall breaking thing-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... that I'm talking about. This is the skill set that's precisely why you need to be a mediator for marriages.
- SPSpeaker
Do you want to do a two-man act? Uh, mediation, there's no money in mediation.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, sorry.
- SPSpeaker
Realize.
- CWChris Williamson
I forgot there's a difference.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Litigation.
- CWChris Williamson
You do it for money.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, litigation. Yeah. Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
I do it, I do it-
- SPSpeaker
Why do you, you do your job
- CWChris Williamson
... I do it out of service.
- SPSpeaker
Do you?
- CWChris Williamson
Just like my buddy.
- SPSpeaker
Just like... Yeah. I do it for the justice.
- SPSpeaker
Would you, would you point out when the people are fighting?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, I think that if it were to the point where I felt that I want to acknow- like, if I don't want to... Like, if they're doing their thing and I just have to be there and like they need to do their thing, I'm no part of this, then I wouldn't acknowledge it. If like we're here for something and/or I felt the projected want to service the other people who I'm assuming are having the same discomfort that I'm having, I might s- I, I would probably say something, and it depends on my relationship. If you guys were fighting and you guys are buddies, I would like, I would be like, "Hey, you know, sometime, you know." Maybe be a little bit lighter. "Just let's, let's-
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
"It's fine. Let's not do this now." But if like, if this was something about something that has val- like importance to it, like you, uh, you, not only did you take too long to pick up your son, but also it was way too long and in a dangerous part of town and I believed that point of view, I would instead, I wouldn't say, "Break it up." I would be like, "I think you're missing what he's trying to say."
- CWChris Williamson
So you take sides?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Or translate.
- 1:50:55 – 1:55:34
Why Being Funny on Set Is Harder Than It Looks
- RGRick Glassman
so knob. You, you guys have done, like, TV comedy stuff. When you're doing the improv thing, ad hocking, surely, yes, hooray, we couldn't have even written this, it only was able to happen in the moment, but then you have the difficulty of everyone on set trying to keep a straight face to something they weren't expecting. Like, I- You just do a pickup. Oh, right, okay. So we've come up with it. All right, now that everyone's dissipating the- Yeah, you try it again and/or you re- ... the originality You keep the delivery, but you cut to a different reaction shot. Especially for television, it's, it's, it's all in the edit, baby. It's hard, yeah. If you, if you get to the- We'll fix it in post. Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah, it, it's like, I, I think what you're saying, like, it's, it's so funny people are laughing, but there's also the flip side where you're trying to, like-
- RGRick Glassman
Mm-hmm
- MMMatt McCusker
... ad lib and the, everyone's just staring at you like, "Why are you wasting our time?" And you're like, "Shit."
- RGRick Glassman
I'm so- So you bombed on set.
- MMMatt McCusker
You can, yeah. I was just-
- RGRick Glassman
Oh, that's gotta hurt
- MMMatt McCusker
... if you go off script and it doesn't kill, you're kinda like, "God, I'm the biggest loser in the world."
- RGRick Glassman
You literally gave me a gimme straight down the middle of the plate.
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs]
- RGRick Glassman
And I decided to try and do something sexy.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Um-
- MMMatt McCusker
It's a bad feeling
- RGRick Glassman
... I'm filming a, a, a show at the moment. It's a single camera show, 'cause this is different m- specifically for multi-camera. And for people at home that don't know, multi-camera is like a play. There's one of the walls is cameras and you're, you're performing to a live audience and gauging their reaction. And he was talking to me about the, uh, about... which is a great observation that I don't think I, I, I ever articulated myself, but, like, joking a joke oftentimes by default isn't great. Do, do you know that term joking? It, like, here's a joke, and now you make another joke. Is this joke a tag that adds to this, or does it cannibalize this? Because it, you lose the reality of what this might be, or now we didn't have time to process whatever it is. But in multi-cams you go out and you do, let's say, three takes. And you go out there and you do the way it's scripted, and it's funny, and it gets a laugh. The second take you do it again, it doesn't get as big of a laugh because they heard it already. So then you, like, you try and perform as if the home audience, the people watching the show, heard all three versions. But they don't. So now when you heighten option three, it's really funny to the people there, and you feel it because we were all part of something that isn't gonna translate. So there's kinda like this if you follow the laughs, just keep in mind what they're laughing at. And I think this is true outside of even performance. But, like, sometimes we do something 'cause of our past experiences led us to believe that it would be funny to be- say something shocking about somebody's sexuality. Because of course I have no hate for this, but they don't know that yet. And, like, judging by people's reactions, uh, could be very dangerous, and I thought that was an interesting way of saying it. Like, if you've heard it once, now you think the next thing's funnier than that, only because it's different. Well, also, if you've been friends with someone for ages and you know that they're very nice, that they've got gay friends, that they don't have any hate in their heart, and then you're on a podcast, or maybe you're with a new group of friends or whatever that don't have that same level of context. You make the joke, one or a few people get it, and everyone else is like, "Fucking whoa."
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah, that's the danger though of the-
- RGRick Glassman
Hey
- MMMatt McCusker
... that's the danger of the internet because, like, it, you, you do... You either have to be very careful in your curation of the things you say and how they can be so easily taken out of context, or you just have to, like, just assume everybody knows where your heart is at.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah, you can have- Yeah ... massive context. That's one solution. But basically everyone is seeing you for the first time. I think assuming that everyone is seeing you for the first time is probably, like, the safer way to go about it, but it makes everything really bland. It's so sterile. Because you've gotta play-
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
One of the example that I think of is when we're doing vlogs sometimes, if we do a training vlog and someone comes through, uh, sometimes we're training in a gym and the music's really loud, and we can use, uh, software that gets rid of the music, so it's just us talking, but we're still shouting. Mm-hmm. We're still yelling at each other- Mm-hmm ... because what we heard was music that the audience now doesn't hear, and that's- Have you seen the Friends, uh, where they took the, the, the audience laughter out? Have you seen any of those?
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
And they're just, "Hey, I really like your shirt. Do they not have it in large?" Yeah, it's like it, it's really weird.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yes.
- RGRick Glassman
'Cause, because I think-
- MMMatt McCusker
It seems so strange. Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
And the jokes actually aren't funny.
- MMMatt McCusker
Well-
- 1:55:34 – 2:00:16
What Happened to Multi-Cam Sitcoms?
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- RGRick Glassman
What happened to that style of, like, production? 'Cause that seemed to be a lot of- People started-
- MMMatt McCusker
Sitcom?
- RGRick Glassman
Sitcoms are by design joke machines, not for better or worse. Um, people, and kind of like what you're saying, want more real. I think that's very true with, with the arts as well. And if you didn't grow up watching that kind of stuff, and that's not part of what your palate is, you, you don't believe... 'Cause it's not. A lot of people look at that as that's not how people really talk. Of course not. This is a silly play. It's a comic book strip. And I think people either don't appreciate that or just don't want that Um, otherwise they would be doing more. It's the cheapest kind of show to make. It's the easiest kind of show to make
- CWChris Williamson
It's just one set largely. Yeah
- RGRick Glassman
Sometimes you make swing sets. But yeah, not only that, but w- with scheduling it's all... Not only is it all indoors, so you don't have to worry about lighting, it's all at the same place and everybody shows up there, and then you kinda get it the m- Uh, so my first job was a multi-cam, and you read the script, and then the next three, four days is literally, it's all about camera blocking and just how you deliver the joke. The, the most work is which way are we facing for this? That's a science that isn't specific to one show, so people already have it down. So it's t- it's hard for the writers 'cause it's joke, joke, joke, joke, joke.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- RGRick Glassman
But, like, there are shows when they have it in, they're in season three, season four, where they do four-day weeks. They rehearse for three days. They film the show on a half day, and then that's it. People say it's like the cushiest gig you could get as a director is, like, you wanna get into multi-cam. And there's only, like, I'm making this number up, so I won't, a few amount of multi-cam directors that they know how to do it, they know how to pace it, they know how to talk to actors, they know how to turn a joke, and that's like the gig.
- CWChris Williamson
It's super, super efficient to make.
- RGRick Glassman
Yeah, you could, you could work 25 hours a week instead of 70.
- SPSpeaker
I think it's also about developing a palate. I think like a... You develop, like, a, almost a comedic palate. Like, I think that-
- CWChris Williamson
I need to move you that way.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You are-
- SPSpeaker
Sorry. I need-
- CWChris Williamson
... gravitating to what-
- SPSpeaker
I know
- CWChris Williamson
... understandably, frankly.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, he's got that aura
- CWChris Williamson
... yeah
- SPSpeaker
... going.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I feel crazy when I watch sitcoms now. If I try to watch, like, Big Bang Theory, I'm like, "This is-"
- RGRick Glassman
What about the ones you grew up with?
- SPSpeaker
I haven't seen them in a while. I used to love them. Like, I, like-
- SPSpeaker
But see, that w- when that was what was on the menu-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... that was what you were consuming.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Episode duration: 3:01:50
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Transcript of episode mNGaK9SCOlE
