Leon Scott | How To Use Your Influence

Chris Williamson 0:00 (wind blowing) Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Leon Scott has joined me.

Leon Scott 0:10 Thank you for having me, mate. Thank you for having me.

Chris Williamson 0:12 Thank you for coming up. I- it's making me feel incredibly pale.

Leon Scott 0:15 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 0:16 And I'm not used to ... Uh, the co-hosts to the show, Johnny and Yusuf, one's a power lifter and one's a gymnast. So I'm not used to being the not- not the leanest person-

Leon Scott 0:24 (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 0:24 ... on the couch either, but I think we're competing with each other today, which is, which is totally fine. How are you? Are you good?

Leon Scott 0:29 Yeah, I'm good, mate. Very good. Very good, thank you.

Chris Williamson 0:31 Brilliant. You recently moved football teams, right? You're at a new team.

Leon Scott 0:34 I did, mate, yeah. Um, I'm at Whippy Town at the minute. Um, enjoying it. Uh, there's a few lads who I know that have played there. I've played there before, so, um, it's a returning club. Very friendly, family-run club. Um, so yeah, I'm enjoying it, mate, and, uh, it's good to be back enjoying the football.

Chris Williamson 0:51 Fantastic. So, for the viewers and the listeners that don't know you-

Leon Scott 0:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 0:57 ... can you give us a little bit of background about what it is that you do? You got a- an interesting eclectic mix of, uh, elements of your life and I want to try and-

Leon Scott 1:05 Yes.

Chris Williamson 1:06 ... give a nice background.

Leon Scott 1:07 Um, a bit about my background. Well, in terms of social media wise, uh, how that sort of all kicked off was, I think it must've been about seven, eight year ago now. Um, I was quite lucky and fortunate. It was actually, funny enough as you've mentioned, I was playing for Whippy Town-

Chris Williamson 1:24 (laughs) .

Leon Scott 1:24 ... how it all started. Um, I was playing for Whippy Town, just normal football, going about my normal thing and, uh, there was a young guy with an idea of a clothing brand back then, seven/eight, seven, eight years ago. It wasn't really a big thing back then. Well, not many people had done it. It was, uh, now you see every other person's making a clothing brand, but back then, it was more like only your Nikes, your Adidas, and so on and so on. Um, so yeah, he had an i- he had an idea. He asked me would I model his brand. Um, back then, I'd never done no modeling. I probably wasn't as confident in front of a camera, um, so I said, "Yeah, yeah, let's give it a go." Um, he was from Scarborough. Met up at Scarborough, um, and we just did a few shoots. And funny enough, the brand now is probably one of the biggest brands within the industry that I've worked in, which that being SickSilk.

Chris Williamson 2:15 Mm.

Leon Scott 2:15 Uh-

Chris Williamson 2:15 I think they are, they were like the first mover-

Leon Scott 2:18 They were the- Yeah, they were the-

Chris Williamson 2:19 Right?

Leon Scott 2:19 Back then, they were the first people to do it. Um, I believe they were the first people to do it. It was a big thing to get it on a reality TV star back then.

Chris Williamson 2:27 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 2:28 Um, you know, if you could get it on someone from Geordie Shore, from TOWIE, et cetera, et cetera, it was a big thing. Um, now it's just the norm. Um, so he managed to do that back then and that-

Chris Williamson 2:38 That's all they wore.

Leon Scott 2:39 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 2:39 I remember, you know, anyone who remembers like the proper heyday.

Leon Scott 2:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:42 Scotty T and-

Leon Scott 2:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:43 ... and, and Gaz and those guys.

Leon Scott 2:45 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:45 That was the-

Leon Scott 2:46 Yeah. So that, that was it, and that, that was his big break, um, because back then they wanted to wear it. Um, it was, it was okay to wear it. Now it's, it's I'll only wear it if-

Chris Williamson 2:58 Yeah.

Leon Scott 2:59 ... it's endorsements, et cetera, et cetera.

Chris Williamson 3:00 Yeah.

Leon Scott 3:00 So it's a lot harder now. Um, so yeah, so that, that's how it all started for me. Um, I modeled for him, um, and then more brands approached me, um, Jim King, B Inspired, a lot of other big brands. Um, I think my big break came from Footasylum. They approached me and asked me to do a campaign out in Ibiza. Um, and for me, it was somewhere I've always went on holiday, so to go there-

Chris Williamson 3:26 (laughs)

Leon Scott 3:26 ... and actually be paid, uh-

Chris Williamson 3:29 And be able to see.

Leon Scott 3:29 Yeah. It was a-

Chris Williamson 3:31 (laughs)

Leon Scott 3:31 It was a bit of an eye-opener because I do remember we were doing a shoot in, uh, in Ocean Beach and it was holiday season, so (laughs) we'd been sectioned off in one corner trying to do a photo shoot and everyone else is in Ocean Beach partying, dancing, and raving.

Chris Williamson 3:46 Brits, Brits abroad.

Leon Scott 3:46 Exactly. Giving it this and all that while-

Chris Williamson 3:49 (laughs) Yeah.

Leon Scott 3:49 ... while I'm trying to keep a straight face.

Chris Williamson 3:51 (laughs)

Leon Scott 3:52 Um, so yeah, that was a bit of an experience. But, uh, from then, it's just been a, a complete snowball effect for me. But, um, on top of that, right at the start, I've always worked full time, so it was quite hard to interlink it all together because my full time job for six year was working with, uh, people with autism and Down syndrome.

Chris Williamson 4:09 Okay.

Leon Scott 4:10 Um, so although that was intense, that was very rewarding as well. So when I did get a chance to do the photo shoots, for me, it was more of a, not, not so much of a day off, but more of a like, wow, can I, is this ... I'm getting paid to do ... It wasn't, didn't feel like work.

Chris Williamson 4:26 Yeah.

Leon Scott 4:26 Um, so obviously, when I went back to my normal day work, it, I w- I was full of energy and very grateful of, of, of me being able to do that when these guys potentially maybe never experienced what I was experiencing.

Chris Williamson 4:38 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 4:39 Um, so I did find a lot about myself in between all that, um, and I just, it was just, like I say, a complete snowball effect.

Chris Williamson 4:45 You got a big contrast there, right?

Leon Scott 4:47 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 4:47 So you, you know, you're going to go and work with people who've got learning difficulties-

Leon Scott 4:51 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 4:51 ... and, and real behavioral problems, and then you're going out to some of the best party destinations on the planet.

Leon Scott 4:58 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 4:58 So it is a, I mean, that will be, must feel like a real contrast.

Leon Scott 5:01 It was. It wa- it was, like I say, that, that, I think that right at the early stages is where I did learn a lot about myself 'cause there was some jobs I had been on and, you know, and every job I went on, I am still to this day like blown away by me, I'm getting paid for doing this. Um, you know, and, and I think that's when it all started for me in terms of, um, like, appreciating and all that type of stuff, because when I went back to my day job, you know, it, it, it was just a complete, it was just two completely different fields of, of area of work. Um, so when I was on the modeling type thing, um, it, it, there was some people that I did do jobs with and, and like they didn't really fully appreciate what they were doing or what they were given or the opportunities of where they are and what was going on.

Chris Williamson 5:49 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 5:49 It was still a bit of a sometimes a snotty attitude. "I'm the model. I'm this." And I was just, sometimes that really confused me with people. Um, and to this day, seven, eight, nine years down the line, I still try not to give that type attitude, you know-

Chris Williamson 6:03 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 6:04 ... 'cause some people when they are on shoots, they'll believe or they still think that-... model is the, model, the model is the main person of the day. It's not.

Chris Williamson 6:11 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 6:11 It's like, it's, it's, it's a collection of everything, you know.

Chris Williamson 6:13 You're there, you're there at the, at the behest of the show.

Leon Scott 6:16 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 6:17 Do you know what I mean? You're there to give whatever clothes it is. It's the guy that designed the clothes-

Leon Scott 6:21 Exactly. Exactly, yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:21 ... who put 100, 150 different samples through.

Leon Scott 6:25 It's, uh, it's not about the model, exactly.

Chris Williamson 6:26 Yeah.

Leon Scott 6:26 It, it's, it's, it's the brand that you're working with.

Chris Williamson 6:29 Yeah.

Leon Scott 6:29 And again, and I, I believe that's what got me a lot of work back. Not always my looks, I don't think. It wa- it was, it was the impression I given on the day, and, and, and what I give back, and my appreciation. Um, and I don't only just think that, a lot of people said that.

Chris Williamson 6:46 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 6:46 "You know, we, we loved working with you. It was easygoing. It was... We had a laugh. It didn't feel like work with us. Um, so we'd like you to come back and do another shoot." Uh, it's-

Chris Williamson 6:55 I mean, uh, you know, it's nice, it's nice to hear that someone who goes into an industry that is quite, um, (clears throat) shallow by its very nature-

Leon Scott 7:04 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 7:04 ... like you, you are there for your looks-

Leon Scott 7:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 7:06 ... um, (coughs) that if you do go th- go there for that, that people are still taking notice of the way that you conduct yourself and things like that.

Leon Scott 7:11 Oh, massively, massively. I've, uh... Don't get me wrong, I think looks is a big thing. You see something and you're attracted to it straightaway by the eye. But if there's no... if there's nothing past that, then it doesn't keep you there.

Chris Williamson 7:25 I agree.

Leon Scott 7:25 Uh-

Chris Williamson 7:25 So what was the actual role that you were doing with, uh, people with learning difficulties and people with autism

Leon Scott 7:30 It was basically managing them to live their everyday life. Uh-

Chris Williamson 7:34 What was the, what's the job role, title?

Leon Scott 7:36 Um, support worker.

Chris Williamson 7:37 Support worker.

Leon Scott 7:37 So I was a support worker. So it's basically their, their struggle to, to living everyday life as we do. Um, things like get up, brush teeth, get the bus, go to college, go to work, um, go to doctor's, go to hospital, see family, et cetera, et cetera. So we'd, we'd help them and support them within that day. Um, so I'd go to work. I'd get delegated with one, one individual. Um, and I'd support him throughout his day, made sure that he lived a life as normal as he could, uh, within his means as everyone else. Uh, you know, 'cause, 'cause they do struggle, like they wanted to go and visit parents. "What bus do I get? Where do I go?" We'd support them with that, and we'd make sure their, like I say, living life to the fullest as much as they can.

Chris Williamson 8:17 Were you employed by the NHS for that?

Leon Scott 8:19 Um, it was... No, it was a company by UBU. Um, the b- I believe they're based in Harrogate.

Chris Williamson 8:23 Right.

Leon Scott 8:24 But they have, like, they had about seven houses within the Northeast, so.

Chris Williamson 8:28 So people lived on site?

Leon Scott 8:29 Yes. So it was, uh, it was like a tenants of... Say, it was a big house with five tenants in, and we had a staff team of, say, 10, 15 people. And obviously, w- that's... But there was different houses around the area. But the house I was based and worked was, they were all young and very outgoing because that's what I liked. And not that... I did go to the other houses, but they were more so the older age who like to sit and watch telly and play board games.

Chris Williamson 8:54 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 8:54 Um, and I think to get my full attention and my, to be able for me to deliver the best I could, I'd like to be more hands-on and like, you know, like pass on my fitness type of thing-

Chris Williamson 9:05 Yeah.

Leon Scott 9:05 ... like going to football. I brought some of them to my football games, took them to the gym. You know what I mean? Try, tried to push them. Like, a lot of them were young lads and wanted to live like young lads-

Chris Williamson 9:14 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 9:14 ... but maybe didn't have the confidence, maybe didn't have the support. And, and that's what we were there for.

Chris Williamson 9:19 That's awesome.

Leon Scott 9:19 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 9:19 So you've touched on it there that you also play football. So we've gone through one part of your life, which is the, uh, the modeling and Instagram. Gone to another, which is the support worker.

Leon Scott 9:28 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 9:28 And you're also semi-professional?

Leon Scott 9:29 Yes, semi-professional. Back then, I was at Darlington. So, uh, that was quite intense. I was, uh-

Chris Williamson 9:34 Darlington's a very high-level football team.

Leon Scott 9:35 It was, yeah. We were, uh, f- I was there for six year and we won four promotions in that year. I was captain for three years. So that was a very successful, uh, time at Darlington, uh, with- won a lot of promotions. The club got, um, (clicks tongue) the, the, they went down five leagues. There's a big story behind it. I don't know if you're not aware of it. Back then, back then, they were, I think it was bankrupt, so they were in a big stadium. They dropped down five leagues and-

Chris Williamson 10:00 That would have been at Feethoven's, right?

Leon Scott 10:01 Yeah, that's right. So they drop down. Um, it's always been run like a professional club. There's, I haven't got a bad, bad word to say about the club. Uh, you know, the, the big fan base. For a non-league team, still getting like 1,500 through the gate, which some League Two clubs don't even get that. Um, so yeah, it was a very good time there. We won, like I say, four promotions. And so it was a little bit, a lot (sighs) I say hard. It was, it was hard, but it wasn't hard because everything I was doing didn't feel like it was hard, if you get me. Like, it wasn't like I do-

Chris Williamson 10:34 (laughs)

Leon Scott 10:34 ... like these guys that go to work and, you know, a, a brickie or whatever you wanna call it. Like, I feel they graft. I feel like that is hard work.

Chris Williamson 10:42 Agreed.

Leon Scott 10:42 And, you know, and so for everything I was doing, I was obviously modeling, flying around the world, going to work, uh, in, in terms of support, support work, helping the young lads, and then I was going to football. None of that felt like I was really grafting, apart from the only time is when I was going in the gym. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 10:58 Yeah.

Leon Scott 10:58 And I was, that was the only time where I was coming to work, I was thinking, "God, I feel knackered here."

Chris Williamson 11:02 Yeah.

Leon Scott 11:03 But yeah, it was just trying to keep all the three together and keep them all tight, because if one fell, I felt like it linked into the other, and so on and so on. So I needed to keep in shape because of the modeling, and I wasn't allowed to get too big because of the football, you know, and it wasn't allowed to get too tired because then I'd underperform at my job. So it-

Chris Williamson 11:22 It's a delicate balancing act.

Leon Scott 11:23 Yeah. It w- it w- it was hard. And people say, "How, how do you fit it all in?" But (coughs) there's that old cliche, there's 24 hours in a day. And you know, there's, there's some days where I've traveled to, to London and arrived at 8:00, uh, 11:00 at night. I've got to be up at 7:00. And there's a 24-hour gym or something in the hotel. I'll go down, show a quick 45 minutes, half an hour, get to bed. So I would always make sure I, I'd done something to keep within a feelgood factor, because if I didn't, I felt... it, it affected my attitude and the way I felt. So it was like...

Chris Williamson 11:51 What's your natural personality? What's your natural kind of mindset like, you know, without you, um... If you've just got a normal day and you're-

Leon Scott 12:00 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 12:00 ... going about your business, what's your mindset like? And then what's it like if you don't train, and then what's it like if you get it really good? Do you have swings in mood swings?

Leon Scott 12:06 I wouldn't say mood swings in terms of... Uh, I'd, I'd feel, um...The more I tend to do, the more energy I've got. The less I do, the less energy I've got. So I like to stay busy in terms of going to the gym, being productive. Um, if, if I find myself sat around doing nothing, I feel... I always feel guilty on myself as if it's time wasted. Um, I find it hard to sh- to shut off, um, which my g- my girlfriend always says, "Just relax. You're allowed to watch telly, you're allowed to do nothing."

Chris Williamson 12:37 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 12:37 And I'm like, "Well, no, it's time wasted." I can be reading, I can be listening to podcasts. I can be working on something. I can be at the gym. I always feel like I've got to be doing something and if I don't... I have learned to accept, which my mindfulness h- has allowed me to do that, I have learned to accept that it is okay to do nothing.

Chris Williamson 12:56 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 12:57 Uh, whereas in the past I did struggle with it and there's still times when I do struggle with it 'cause like I say, I like being very active-

Chris Williamson 13:03 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 13:03 ... in, in, in learning and progressing. Like, what have I done today that's made me feel better or what have I done today to improve or... These are the type of questions that I ask myself before I go to sleep each night and if, and if I ain't got an answer for any, nine times out of ten I have a bad sleep 'cause I can't wait to get up the next day to-

Chris Williamson 13:20 Get after it again.

Leon Scott 13:21 ... yeah, to change these an- these answers that I've given myself.

Chris Williamson 13:24 Uh, uh, it's interesting that there's a lot of parallels that I can draw between your experience and mine. You know, some of the, some of the listeners at home may be surprised to hear that someone who is a pro- semi-professional footballer and-

Leon Scott 13:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 13:36 ... an Instagram model and, you know, flying around the world modeling for brands that are worn by party boys and party girls-

Leon Scott 13:41 Yep.

Chris Williamson 13:42 ... is also one of... Your main concerns is, "What sort of value am I adding to my life and the life of, lives of others?"

Leon Scott 13:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 13:48 It sounds quite contrary, right?

Leon Scott 13:50 Yes. Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 13:51 It's a different sort of mindset.

Leon Scott 13:53 It, it... Yeah. You can see why people think that and look at that but, you know, I, I want... (sighs) Which is the reason I did release my two books. It, it was to give some people back of what I've, like, done myself and learned myself, test, trial and error. You know what I mean? I always get... Which goes back to my job of supported living. Um, I always get a kick out of helping someone maybe progress or, you know, just, just chatting to someone in terms of, "What can I help with?" If I can't, maybe we can just have a chat and listen. You don't have to take it in, you know. But I- I'm always open to help and I want to help.

Chris Williamson 14:27 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 14:27 'Cause I, I get like a, a little buzz off that, that that person has, has maybe learned something off me or maybe I've passed something on I've learned off someone else. 'Cause I always feel like, although I like to give advice, I'm always wanting to learn as well. I'm not... I'm n- I'm never gonna be a master. I will alwa-... That, that... The old saying, "I'm never gonna be a master, I'll always be a t- uh, a learner." You know, I'm always wanting-

Chris Williamson 14:48 Yeah.

Leon Scott 14:48 ... to learn.

Chris Williamson 14:49 Yeah.

Leon Scott 14:49 Um, so yeah, it, it... You can see in obviously that type, type of lifestyle, but it's-

Chris Williamson 14:54 If you t- if you take the headlines, if you take the headlines, semi-professional footballer-

Leon Scott 14:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 14:58 ... Instagram wanker, all the rest of the stuff, you know-

Leon Scott 15:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 15:00 ... flying around the world, got a good-looking girlfriend and going on holidays and blah, blah, blah. But it's the same for me. Like, people say, "Ex-reality TV star, club promoter, does the Instagram thing, like, cunt." Like... (laughs) Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not-

Leon Scott 15:13 No, you can say it and that's-

Chris Williamson 15:14 ... it's not-

Leon Scott 15:14 ... that's just, that's just painted on us by society. But them, them things like... It, it sounds crazy because I, I still to this day don't bel-... I'm, I'm not a model and I, I, I ge-

Chris Williamson 15:25 You just model. (laughs)

Leon Scott 15:26 Yeah. A- a- exactly. But I genuinely believe that because I've never... For... In my eyes, models are the guys that, you know, do, do big fashion shows, they're signed to agencies, they're working with the- these big billboards, the aftershave, the watches. To me, them guys are the models. We've just, me personally and potentially, like, yourself and potentially the other guys that, who do out, out there model, we've just gained a little bit of a following through social media and now we're used to model because of our following.

Chris Williamson 15:55 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 15:56 Um, because these brands know that we've got an all right following that's seen by a lot of younger kids. Whereas the, the real models with the agencies who I see, they're like... They're not really used by the clothing brands.

Chris Williamson 16:08 But the, the... One of the main things as well with my experience in, especially in commercial modeling, is that the... (sighs) I'd love... If someone knows the statistics, please comment below.

Leon Scott 16:17 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 16:18 But I think that probably 80% to 90% of what would be classed as modeling work will be e-comm.

Leon Scott 16:25 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:25 So it'll just be some guy and a photographer and maybe a stylist, if you're lucky, on a infinity board in a studio just shooting clothing shots.

Leon Scott 16:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 16:36 And you're like... Because that's the highest volume. Anyone who's listening, you've gone on a JD Sports to have a look at the new top, the Nike top that's just gone up or whatever it might be. Like, that photo needs to be constructed and it looks like it's maybe, you know, a two-second job. It's actually quite an arduous process to go through. And I think that that... And, you know, that's where the real... That... I always make the joke, that's the only time that for me modeling never feels like work.

Leon Scott 16:59 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 16:59 That it doesn't really feel like work when you're on location, it doesn't feel like work when you-

Leon Scott 17:02 No, yeah, it, it's always e-comm, yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:03 Like, that's rapped. That's-

Leon Scott 17:04 Particularly... Yeah, that... Then, there's wha- uh... Well, not hard work. Again, I was still a- up... Whenever I turned up, I'm always grateful. But them were the days where I did turn up, say I had to get the train 6:00 in the morning to get to Manchester sh- to shoot for Footasylum, and I'd look up the rail and it'd have like about 40, 50 T-shirts on.

Chris Williamson 17:21 (laughs)

Leon Scott 17:21 I'd have this... The T- When it's T-shirts as well, it just feels like it's not going down.

Chris Williamson 17:25 Yeah.

Leon Scott 17:25 And you take one off and you're looking again.

Chris Williamson 17:26 It's such a... Any, any models that are listening will know the feeling when you're looking at a rail on the other side of a, a, a photographer.

Leon Scott 17:32 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:32 And you're just like, "We've been going..." And then what you start to do is you look at how much time you've been in there for-

Leon Scott 17:37 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:37 ... work out how many garments you've shot, extrapolate that forward and then you're like, "Right, so I'm doing one T-shirt around about every four-

Leon Scott 17:44 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:44 ... four minutes and 15 seconds." So if I really speed up... Video guy Dean's pissing himself behind the camera-

Leon Scott 17:49 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:50 ... 'cause he knows exactly the pain that we're talking about.

Leon Scott 17:52 Yeah. But it was one of them was back then. I, I had really long hair, so I guess I would, like, whipped back.

Chris Williamson 17:59 Yeah.

Leon Scott 17:59 So it was like, I had to really, like, slowly get my T-shirt over.

Chris Williamson 18:02 Oh, you've got to be delicate with the movement as well.

Leon Scott 18:02 Yeah. Otherwise, if I just whacked it on quick, then I'd have to go to the makeup and hairstylist who'd redo my hair.

Chris Williamson 18:08 Oh.

Leon Scott 18:08 So it was like a long process.

Chris Williamson 18:10 It's like the, it's like the fucking Crystal Maze.

Leon Scott 18:11 Yeah, (laughs) literally. But yet then I'd, I'd look up the rail as, as you were saying there, and I'd... Although there was 50 T-shirts, I'm like, "Right, let's try and nail through all. I'll be done by 1:00." And from experience, I'd do that and then all of a sudden they'll bring another 50 and I'd be like, "Fuck." (laughs)

Chris Williamson 18:25 Yeah. That's what, that's it. It's-

Leon Scott 18:26 So from... Yeah, from then on, I'd be like, "Right, I'm just gonna time it until it gets to four-"

Chris Williamson 18:30 (laughs)

Leon Scott 18:30 "... so they can't bring another 40 out."

Chris Williamson 18:33 Oh, we might as well not go on.

Leon Scott 18:34 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 18:35 I mean, an- another thing as well. Was it at the Sharp Project where you went for Footasylum?

Leon Scott 18:39 Eh.

Chris Williamson 18:40 Where JD Sports shoot, the Sharp project in Manchester? Or is it MediaCity?

Leon Scott 18:44 Uh, no, it might have been the Sharp. It was out in, in industrial estate 4 Asylum.

Chris Williamson 18:47 Huge, big, huge, big thing-

Leon Scott 18:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:48 ... and you check in at the front.

Leon Scott 18:49 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:49 It's all gated.

Leon Scott 18:49 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:50 So (clears throat) for anyone who doesn't know, JD Sports own, uh, pretty much all of the... They own Blacks, which make, uh, outdoor g- or retail outdoor gear, like Trespass and North Face and stuff like that. They've got Foot Asylum, they've got themselves, et cetera, et cetera. And you have never ever seen a facility like this. So you'll have infinity wall, uh, shooting studios. You'll have models facing models, so you'll have two photographers-

Leon Scott 19:16 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 19:16 ... working away from each other. If you can imagine like a- an alleyway, and at the end of each alleyway is a model that's facing each other, and in the middle of the alleyway is two photographers facing away from each other. And then you've got another alleyway next to it, and it's like four of these alleyways, each with a stylist, each with a photographer.

Leon Scott 19:32 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 19:32 And then as the rail gets completed, the photographer will crop the photos to the, um, particular aspect that's required (claps hands) to go up online. And then there's a mezzanine level, like a balcony that overlooks where the digital team is. And something that you photographed 20 minutes ago will be up online ready to sell.

Leon Scott 19:51 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 19:51 It is-

Leon Scott 19:52 Literally.

Chris Williamson 19:52 ... it's a fucking force of nature, that place.

Leon Scott 19:54 Yeah, it was worth it. It was like, it was like a circle literally, yeah? And they just fi- uh, just fire around and shoot. As soon as, as soon as you shot it, it would be back on the website. You know, and it just-

Chris Williamson 20:00 When you, when you see something like that happen, that's when you realize just how sophisticated the e- e-commerce industry is now.

Leon Scott 20:07 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 20:07 Like, they're not fucking about.

Leon Scott 20:08 No. The, uh, literally it arrives and it's on the online, so that, that was like f- just, it just works so quick. But like I say, I, I used to always do every Thursdays. They'd have a certain model for a certain look, but they had these shoots nearly every day. You know, like, "This model suits this look, so we've got him for that day."

Chris Williamson 20:26 Yeah.

Leon Scott 20:26 "This model suits that. We've got him for that day."

Chris Williamson 20:28 They've got, um, they've got a set of analytics on the backend as well, where they track the sales of garments based on the model.

Leon Scott 20:34 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 20:35 And then they're like, "Oh, th- this particular guy's selling at, uh, 5% better than this person."

Leon Scott 20:40 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 20:40 And like, th- this is maybe for yourself as well as someone who's kind of got a bit of a, a hunger for learning shit.

Leon Scott 20:47 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 20:47 Like, I had to distract myself from wanting to understand the operation that was going on-

Leon Scott 20:55 Yeah. Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 20:55 ... to actually focus on my job, which was getting the fucking photos taken.

Leon Scott 20:57 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 20:58 'Cause I just, I just wanted it to be like, "Oh, right. So where does this go? Oh my god. And it's up, it goes straight up there. And they can put it online-"

Leon Scott 21:03 Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 21:03 "... straight away. So how many do you do a day?"

Leon Scott 21:05 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:05 "How many models is there?" They're like, "Chris, can you just-"

Leon Scott 21:07 So I-

Chris Williamson 21:07 "... stand on the fucking march for me, please?"

Leon Scott 21:09 Yeah. (laughs) So Mum was the other side of that, as you were really interested in that, I was always really interested in the photographer side.

Chris Williamson 21:14 Yeah.

Leon Scott 21:14 So I would always walk over and say, "Oh, how do you set that up? How did you learn that?" Blah, blah. And there are so many... "Just, just go back."

Chris Williamson 21:21 "Leon, can you try to take a picture on the camera for us?"

Leon Scott 21:23 "We need to try to take a picture," which is where later in life I progressed and I've done photography courses now.

Chris Williamson 21:26 Okay.

Leon Scott 21:26 So now I know how to add like ISO and all those type of things. But I'm not massively known on it all, but it was always something like, "Oh, how's he got that shadow there?"

Chris Williamson 21:34 Yeah, yeah.

Leon Scott 21:35 "How's he got that light there?" It's something I've always wanted to learn and progress in. So yeah, like you were saying, you were into it on that side.

Chris Williamson 21:41 My background, my background was on the ops and you were sort of into photography.

Leon Scott 21:43 Yeah, mine was on the photography side, yeah.

Chris Williamson 21:44 So you've touched on the mindfulness before.

Leon Scott 21:46 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:46 And I think this is where me and you probably have a l- quite a lot in common.

Leon Scott 21:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 21:50 Um, would you be able to explain the journey that you've had with regards to mindfulness and, and where you started and what sort of learnings you've been exposed to and stuff like that?

Leon Scott 21:58 Yeah. Well, it all started with a... (sighs) I wasn't very well-behaved at school in terms of I had a very short attention span. I couldn't really sit in class and listen too much. Uh, wasn't very good at reading and writing. Um, so it's, it was like I used to always see people on holiday reading books and I used to think, "Why the fuck they're reading a book?" You know? And, and, and I'd be like, now I get it, you know?

Chris Williamson 22:20 Was that as a, was that as a kid maybe?

Leon Scott 22:21 As a kid, yeah, of course. That was a kid and I, I, I just didn't get it. I used to think, "I'd rather be bombing in the pool."

Chris Williamson 22:27 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 22:27 "I'd rather be at the bar." Like-

Chris Williamson 22:28 Yeah.

Leon Scott 22:28 ... "You're wasting your time," but they're not now. Like, I get it, you know what I mean? So it comes into where my first book was, uh, Motivation Manifesto by Brendan, uh, Butcher. And, uh, it was like, I read that and I, and I... everything just started being so clear and making sense. And then I downloaded an app called Calm, which was free for seven days for anyone listening, maybe give it a go. Um, and I, I done 15, it's like 15 minutes of meditation. And the reason I enjoyed it is because I put it into practice and it worked actually, bro. (instrumental music plays) And it worked, you know. It was like, "Wow, this shit really works." Like, I'd do it, and what I was getting told, I'd be like, "All right, okay, I'm gonna try that." And then I'd try it, and I'd get a good feeling or a good reaction back. So it was just like... it, it just, it just progressed. And then from the app, I started googling courses. There's a course, uh, not far from me, um, the main Buddhist monk center in Darlington. And there's a guy that comes round our area every Monday, and I all meet up with him. We've got very friendly with him. I've learnt a lot off him. Um, and, and just even- just when I walked into the room my first... I just remember my first day when I went into the room, um, I ju- I ju- it was... I just looked at him and just without him even speaking, I was just like, "You look so happy."

Chris Williamson 23:45 (laughs)

Leon Scott 23:45 Like, like, you know, like... and, and he sits telling us stuff at the front and, uh, and, and the way he's telling his stories and he's just chuckling at himself and the... And he's saying like, he's explaining like a pro- is a problem really a problem? Like, going into detail and I'm like, "It's not. No, like, what you are saying is fucking powerful and it's real. It's, you're like... I've never heard this before. I've never experienced this before." And he used to always say himself, like, "I ain't just saying this because I want to say it. I'm saying it because it really works, you know. This, this is... this, this type of stuff actually works. Um, so try it."

Chris Williamson 24:19 Yeah.

Leon Scott 24:19 So, like, it was one of them where I, I, I did try it, I put things into practice and it, and it just progressed. And every time, like, I do more, I want to do more and more and more and more. So yeah, that, that's what all started. It was, it's... And I'm still on that journey now. Uh, I want, you know, I wanna learn more, I want to go deeper. I want to maybe travel and do more meditation and learn more about it.Um, I try to stick to 15 minutes a day. There are some guys out there that do two hours a day. You know, maybe I'm not... I know I... Well, I don't think, I know I'm not at that stage yet-

Chris Williamson 24:49 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 24:49 ... because it, it's hard, but-

Chris Williamson 24:50 It's very, very difficult.

Leon Scott 24:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 24:52 Yeah.

Leon Scott 24:52 But, you know, I, I did at the start... Don't get me wrong. At the start we, um, we went to the class and one of my... Me and my best mate, when we first went the ex- the... When I told you about. And some parts we did look at each other and chuckle and think, "What the fuck is this?"

Chris Williamson 25:06 (laughs)

Leon Scott 25:07 And... But back then, we're looking a- and it... You know, and maybe that's why people don't do it, 'cause they think, "Whoa, whoa, close your eyes. Hmm." They think it's all this type of stuff, but-

Chris Williamson 25:15 Yeah.

Leon Scott 25:15 ... it's actually not. It's, it, it's working on becoming a better person from within, you know. And a lot of people want to work on what looks good-

Chris Williamson 25:24 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 25:24 ... but a lot of people are blinding on working on what feels good.

Chris Williamson 25:29 Fantastic. Fantastic point.

Leon Scott 25:30 You know what I mean?

Chris Williamson 25:30 I think one of the things that's super interesting is that doing... When you work in an industry like modeling, very transactional, very surface deep, and the whole Instagram thing, it is awash with people that have got undiagnosed, um, mental health problems, or charisma issues, or, uh, in- insecurities that they're then projecting on social media.

Leon Scott 25:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 25:54 And (clears throat) something that I always thought would be hilarious would be if, in some different iteration of the world, we were able to have an Instagram that instead of showing someone's outward condition was able to represent someone's inward condition.

Leon Scott 26:07 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:08 And if you were able to compare the person who's got a lot of followers and looks happy and is-

Leon Scott 26:13 (sighs)

Chris Williamson 26:13 ... always, you know, i- in a fantastic place with... On holiday taking photos in the sunshine and smiling and laughing, and you think, okay, if we were actually able to flip that and show your internal state-

Leon Scott 26:26 Be very different.

Chris Williamson 26:26 ... what sort of photos would we see from that?

Leon Scott 26:28 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 26:28 And I think, (clears throat) you're totally right, the Calm, uh, apps, apps like Headspace and Calm are... They were a great introduction.

Leon Scott 26:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:36 Um, guided meditation is fantastic for people who need to make an entry into-

Leon Scott 26:42 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 26:42 ... into meditation.

Leon Scott 26:43 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:43 Um, to hear that you said that doing two hours a day is difficult... And people think, "Oh, you're just sitting, sitting alone with your thoughts. How hard can it be?"

Leon Scott 26:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:50 Let me tell you, I went and did a, uh, meditation retreat in between Christmas and New Year.

Leon Scott 26:55 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:55 So, there's a place at Belse up here, Tibetan temple, that we went to go and do that, and myself and Youssef, who's done a 10-day, 10-hours-a-day retreat previously-

Leon Scott 27:05 10 hours a day? Sheesh.

Chris Williamson 27:05 Yeah. So he was, he was, uh, already quite well-conditioned towards this, but for me it was gonna be new ground.

Leon Scott 27:11 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:11 And, um, the plan was to do... To total 10 hours of cumulative practice throughout the day. And we got to six and I just had nothing left in the tank.

Leon Scott 27:20 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 27:20 And it's, it's difficult for me to describe what it feels like to have nothing left in the tank with regards to meditation because-

Leon Scott 27:25 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:25 ... inherently it's quite a relaxed environment to be in. But when your day is spent silencing your mind, noticing thoughts as they rise into consciousness, labeling them and getting rid of them, and then starting again and focusing on your breath, like it's like doing-

Leon Scott 27:42 It's tiring.

Chris Williamson 27:43 ... it's the same as doing a marathon.

Leon Scott 27:44 It's tiring. I know, yeah. It's tiring.

Chris Williamson 27:45 It really is.

Leon Scott 27:46 Yeah. But that, that's what, that's, that's what I mean by a lot of people... You worked at that and you kept going on that. And that's obviously sort of the stage that I'm at. Like, my girlfriend, she does it sometimes with me, but sometimes she struggles with these thoughts that come and whatever comes.

Chris Williamson 28:01 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 28:02 So... But she only thinks of these thoughts when she tries to meditate.

Chris Williamson 28:05 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 28:05 So she tries to keep herself busy other ways so she doesn't think of these thoughts.

Chris Williamson 28:09 Yes.

Leon Scott 28:09 Um, so she, she, uh, she's learning, she's getting better. But what I try to pass to her, that's, that's normal, that's okay, you know?

Chris Williamson 28:17 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 28:18 Th- these thoughts will come, you know, it, it's learned to accept. Uh, and, and, and like we say, brushing them aside, they'll come again, accept, brush them aside. And it's like anything, you know, you go to the gym, you train your bicep, you do it twice, you do three times, it gets bigger, it gets a little stronger, gets wider, and it's exactly the same as the mind. Like I said, where you're doing 30 seconds today. Right? Okay, we'll do 40 seconds tomorrow.

Chris Williamson 28:39 Progressive overload is key, man.

Leon Scott 28:40 Yeah, exactly, man. Yeah, and that, and that's, that's key. And then it's just, it's every day you just, you know, just that little more, that little more, and the, and these thoughts become less, you know, and, and them thoughts that you used to think of in the first 10 seconds, you might not even think about for the first four minutes.

Chris Williamson 28:55 Totally right.

Leon Scott 28:56 Um-

Chris Williamson 28:56 I think, you know, uh, w- what, what I've found, especially as my practice has deepened... And, uh, Brian, my meditation coach, who will be listening now from America, um, what I've realized as my meditation practice has deepened recently is not necessarily that the thoughts don't arise, it's that your capacity to be able to deal with them is just so much-

Leon Scott 29:16 Let go.

Chris Williamson 29:16 ... so much more, um, so much stronger. And the ability to let go, you know?

Leon Scott 29:22 Yeah. That's my main one, the let go.

Chris Williamson 29:22 If something arises and you can just let go.

Leon Scott 29:25 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 29:25 Um-

Leon Scott 29:25 That, that, I think that, that's the, that's the main point for me, learning, you know, sometimes these thoughts... Uh, regardless, these thoughts will always come, they will, uh, uh, I believe, until I get deeper or further, who knows? But the thoughts will always come, but the connections with the thoughts for me has got weaker.

Chris Williamson 29:42 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 29:43 Um, it's-

Chris Williamson 29:43 You don't identify as much anymore, right?

Leon Scott 29:45 No, exactly. So it, it's not like... Uh, uh, they come, they're there, you go. They'll come, you know, whereas before they'd come and I'd be like, "Oh, ugh." Like get-

Chris Williamson 29:54 You're attached and you-

Leon Scott 29:54 Yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting really annoyed with it and, and couldn't fully understand why I was getting them thought, so I fully understand like why that was happening and that... But now I'm less like, "So."

Chris Williamson 30:03 Well, you either... There's only two ways to... Uh, based on the Shinzen Young book that I'm reading at the moment, there's two things that happen. You either identify with them or you suppress them.

Leon Scott 30:10 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 30:10 So it's an attachment or it's a suppression.

Leon Scott 30:12 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:13 And you're like, "Right, okay, I don't want to do either of those things." Because if you try and suppress thoughts, that's still not dealing with it.

Leon Scott 30:18 No.

Chris Williamson 30:18 That's putting a, uh, uh, cloth over the top of the tail of the bird.

Leon Scott 30:21 Spiding over it, innit? Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:22 Yeah, exactly. It's not working, you're not actually dealing with it. And the, the same thing is when you begin to identify with them, you're like, "Right, okay, well now I'm like... I've jumped into it."

Leon Scott 30:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:29 Like I don't need to do that either.

Leon Scott 30:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:30 I just need to accept it for what it is and let it go.

Leon Scott 30:32 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:32 So-But something else that I really, (coughs) I really wanted to talk about was your training.

Leon Scott 30:38 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 30:38 I think that, you know, a lot of people know you online from the fact that you do online courses a- and you are in, in good condition, and stuff like that.

Leon Scott 30:46 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 30:46 How do you think that marrying the, the mindfulness and, and the training stuff, and your sport as well, has, has working on your mind helped you with regards to your performance-

Leon Scott 30:56 Oh, massively.

Chris Williamson 30:56 ... in the gym and your performance at football?

Leon Scott 30:57 Massively. Um, in terms of football, I used to be a r- a, still sort of am because it's sort of my game, um, a really aggressive player. Um, I'm a center mid, the aggressive, the ball tackler, the break it up, pass it on-

Chris Williamson 31:10 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 31:10 ... move it on, the not so talented one. Um-

Chris Williamson 31:13 Modern-day Vinnie Jones?

Leon Scott 31:14 Exactly. Um, so yeah, so but it's allowed me, as I've got older, the mindfulness is to control these. You know, I, I've got a lot of sending offs back in my day, but now I'm a bit more, a bit more clever about the way I go about things. Because like I said, the mindfulness has helped me with that to deal with like, you will always get the odd player winding each other up or ... I always feel like I can win that mental battle when we're winding each other up now, you know? So, so the, the mindfulness has definitely helped me on the football pitch. Um, and also like learning to control situations in the heat of the moment. Um, 'cause everything that arises for me, not just in a football but in life, in the gym, my first thought is practice. It's training. It's training. You know, so if I become, if a, if a difficult challenge comes ahead, perfect opportunity for my mind to get trained now.

Chris Williamson 32:01 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 32:02 Um, instead of, "Oh, shit. I can't deal with this," for me, it's like, "Oh, brilliant. This, this problem's come up, so this is a perfect opportunity for my mind to, to tackle this problem and overcome this problem. And without this problem, my mind wouldn't get stronger." Um, so things like that on the pitch in my mi- like the mindfulness has definitely helped me. Within the gym, it's made things a lot more clear and a lot more, um, acceptable for me. You know, like, like I said, back in the day where I got really big and it wasn't acceptable for modeling, and then I'd have to trim down for football, you know? So there was a bit of a like, a b- I was always battling with things. So now I feel like I've found that like, that, you know, that, that fight club, lean type look that everyone types like, you know? I'm, I wouldn't say everyone, but majority of people do like that lean look. Um, all each to their own. I know some have got to do competitions, et cetera, et cetera, so. But yeah, I think overall, the, the mindfulness I think has massively helped me in, in, in all, everything I do, in my work, my football, my gym. Um, which is why I, like I said, which is why put it into practice. Like anyone watching, give it a go and put it into practice, and you will see. It's not, it's not just me saying it because I want you to do it or, you know, I'm saying-

Chris Williamson 33:15 We're not on a commission scheme here for meditation-

Leon Scott 33:17 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 33:17 ... Worldwide Meditation Minute.

Leon Scott 33:17 I'm just saying it because it, it, it's worked. Like the, the, the shit's like, it's, it's happen- I wouldn't do s- I won't ... Put it this way, you wouldn't continue to do summat that's not working, that's not giving you-

Chris Williamson 33:29 Sure.

Leon Scott 33:29 ... good feelings.

Chris Williamson 33:29 Well, you know, you look at, you know, as a good example as well for yourself, you are a, a guy that wants to try and continue to refine different elements of his life, right?

Leon Scott 33:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 33:38 So you're looking at, "I didn't read, now I read, and I didn't approach football in this way, and now I do. And I used to train in this particular fashion, but I found that this worked better for me."

Leon Scott 33:47 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 33:47 You're totally right. Like-

Leon Scott 33:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 33:49 ... do you think it, that if mindfulness wasn't working for you, that you'd just continue to smash your head against the wall for 15 minutes every single day?

Leon Scott 33:55 T- uh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 33:55 No, you wouldn't. You would, you would-

Leon Scott 33:56 But, that's what I'm saying.

Chris Williamson 33:56 ... you're doing it because you get this thing out of it. I, I think, I don't ... What do you think is the UK's or the, the normal UK, um, young person's approach towards when you s- when you mention mindfulness? Because sometimes when I say it to people, I just get this look and it's like, uh, I, I, I don't know.

Leon Scott 34:15 Uh, I think, I think-

Chris Williamson 34:16 It's like I, it's like I've spoken about being a fucking stamp collector or something.

Leon Scott 34:18 Yeah. Well, uh, going back to my younger days, how, how I would have thought, if you told me when I was a bit younger, uh, and probably the rebel that I was and a little bit of that background, but if you told me it now, I'd be like, "Oh, god." You know, my first picture-

Chris Williamson 34:32 Sit alone with my thoughts for 15 minutes.

Leon Scott 34:33 Yeah. My f- well, my first thought is these guys in these dresses and you know, and it's like, "Who the fuck wants to do that?" And that, that's pr- probably majority of what a lot of lads or younger lads would do or, or the mayor to be like, "What? You sit there with a monk who meditates? Oh, that's not cool." You know? But it's like, but you go to the gym and you're working on your outer look. How about try and work on your inner look and see the difference in how you feel? So it's just becoming, you know, more aware and showing people that it works and, and, and letting people accept it, you know, and, and, and doing it. So, so yeah, i- it's one of them. It's, I think it's a bit m- not daunting, but maybe a bit ... it's not a bit manly for a man to sit and do a-

Chris Williamson 35:13 Very, very much so.

Leon Scott 35:14 ... do a meditation thing.

Chris Williamson 35:15 And I think, man, I, I think that's, that's a good point that as, you know, when both northern lads, like we're both from Teesside, like it's not the sort of place that I heard meditation talked about an awful lot as I grew up.

Leon Scott 35:27 No.

Chris Williamson 35:28 Like, and you know, maybe if we were in LA-

Leon Scott 35:30 Yeah. Oh. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 35:30 ... and there was like a fucking juice bar on every corner-

Leon Scott 35:33 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 35:33 ... and you know, everyone's vegan and they're, you know, wearing no, not wearing any shoes. Everyone's-

Leon Scott 35:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:38 ... walking around fucking barefoot.

Leon Scott 35:38 Then it becomes type cool

Narrator 35:40 (inaudible 00:04:55) .

Chris Williamson 35:40 It's just, it's more, I think that kind of more progressive side of things i- is there. And obviously, America's got a lot of different influences on it, it's quite fast-moving. Um, there's something inherent as well I think in the British people that everything's just a bit shit.

Leon Scott 35:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:53 Do you know what I mean? Like everyone's like, "The weather's crap."

Leon Scott 35:55 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:55 "And oh, then craps fucking ruined."

Leon Scott 35:57 It, it's just that type of mood thing, innit? Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:57 "There's traffic and there's this and there's that."

Leon Scott 35:59 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:59 And I think everyone tends to be a little bit more critical about it. But what I think-

Leon Scott 36:03 But that, that, but that, that's what I mean. That is the r- for me, that is the reason why you need to do it.

Chris Williamson 36:07 Yes.

Leon Scott 36:08 You know? It's a-

Chris Williamson 36:08 I mean, you gotta deal with the shit traffic-

Leon Scott 36:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:09 ... and the shit weather, right?

Leon Scott 36:10 Exactly. So, so obviously-

Chris Williamson 36:11 (laughs)

Leon Scott 36:12 ... by, by constantly like you've got shit weather, you can't change the weather. The weather's shit, you've got shit traffic.

Chris Williamson 36:19 Yeah. (laughs)

Leon Scott 36:19 You can't change that. But what you can change is your feeling and your attitude towards that, you know? And, and that's where people think, "Oh, fucking traffic. Oh, fucking weather."

Chris Williamson 36:28 Yeah.

Leon Scott 36:28 You're gonna, are you gonna continue to do that and moan about that all your life?... are you gonna try and deal with it in another way so you can sit in the traffic and accept the traffic-

Chris Williamson 36:36 Oh, that's it.

Leon Scott 36:36 ... so you can walk out in the rain and enjoy the rain.

Chris Williamson 36:39 I 100% agree.

Leon Scott 36:39 You know, uh, uh, and it's not always, don't get me wrong, it's not always going to be like, "Ah."

Chris Williamson 36:43 Yeah.

Leon Scott 36:43 We all love the sun. Um, so but, i- i- it's working towards that and making them feelings a little bit better, you know. When- when we go to work and we're sat in traffic and we're beeping our horn, well, maybe just sit there and chill out and just accept it and smile at it.

Chris Williamson 36:56 Well, I think... I- I wrote a, wrote a, a article that right now will be out in Muscle & Fitness for this, uh, this particular month, the month of February, and it was on Mindful Muscle, I called it.

Leon Scott 37:07 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 37:07 And it was two and a half thousand word, um, testimonial to mindfulness training and then a couple of prescriptive meditations that you can do yourself. And, um, in that, one of the parting thoughts that I had was that your mind is all that you have and it's all that you've ever had.

Leon Scott 37:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 37:22 And your life shouldn't be spent at the mercy of the next action or thought that comes careening into your conf- consciousness.

Leon Scott 37:31 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:31 Like if you spend your entire life at the mercy of things that are outside of your control, you're literally handing your life over to everything else. If you-

Leon Scott 37:39 It's painful, innit?

Chris Williamson 37:40 If you know that traffic will set you off, and the weather will set you off, and your missus having an argument will set you off, and this, that, and the other, you're literally handing control of your life over to something or someone else that isn't you.

Leon Scott 37:52 It's out of your control, innit?

Chris Williamson 37:54 It is.

Leon Scott 37:54 There was a, there was a da- on that, there was some type of diagram a few year ago that I seen in terms of like you're saying the traffic, you know, all these little things that annoy you, is, is that... it's, it's like a bucket type thing. And, you know, if you get up on the morning and, and you stand on summat and like, "Fuck."

Chris Williamson 38:12 Like an upturned plug.

Leon Scott 38:12 So the bucket goes up, yeah, exactly, and it goes up. Then you go and look for your toothbrush, you can't find it, you're getting more annoyed, the bucket goes higher. You know, then you can't find your car keys, it goes higher. Then the smallest thing like the light changes from amber to red just before you get there, and it's like, "Fuck!"

Chris Williamson 38:26 (laughs)

Leon Scott 38:26 It's like now the bucket overflows. So it's instead of like, oh, instead of standing on that plug of like, right, okay, I've let, like, let go, it's gone.

Chris Williamson 38:33 Yeah.

Leon Scott 38:33 And then bring it back down. But like that's what, that's what you were on about there is like little things annoy you, annoy you, and then you'll have this real big outburst maybe when you get to her and you think... two minutes after you think, "Oh, fuck, I shouldn't have done that."

Chris Williamson 38:45 I shouldn't have done that. Yeah.

Leon Scott 38:46 And because it's all come from these little buildups that you've not let go of and you're still holding onto and getting really aggressive and really annoyed at, you know. But-

Chris Williamson 38:54 It's the straw that broke the camel's back, right?

Leon Scott 38:56 Yeah. But you can't... but we can't see that or... because it's within the mind. It's... and there's that old saying of, you know, if, if I give you a hot coal in your hand, what would be the first thing you do? You'd leave go of it.

Chris Williamson 39:07 Yeah.

Leon Scott 39:07 You know? So if- if- if a thought's hurting you and bringing you pain, why are you still walking around with it like, "Oh, Chris, you're doing my head in yeah, so I'm gonna walk around all day ........................."

Chris Williamson 39:18 Yeah.

Leon Scott 39:18 And like that to... that's, that's just painful, you know. It's all like, "All right, Chris, it's me and it's over. Let go."

Chris Williamson 39:23 Yeah.

Leon Scott 39:23 Gone. And it's like if people can visually see that, which is what I've learned and what I've learned, if you can visually see that, you'd let go of it straight away.

Chris Williamson 39:31 Well, they say anger is holding onto a hot coal-

Leon Scott 39:34 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:34 ... in the hopes of throwing it at somebody else.

Leon Scott 39:36 Exactly, yeah. So you're just walking around trying to look for someone else to, to let it out on.

Chris Williamson 39:40 Unload- unload your-

Leon Scott 39:40 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:41 ... your anger on.

Leon Scott 39:41 Yeah. And then, and then after that, become regret and everything else.

Chris Williamson 39:45 Yeah. Um, one of the things that I wanted to move on to was talking about the platform that you've got-

Leon Scott 39:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 39:50 ... and that other people have online and what they're using that for.

Leon Scott 39:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 39:54 So I mean, if you were to try and... wha- wha- how would you define the message that you want to try and get across to people?

Leon Scott 40:02 Um, the message I try to get across to people li... is there are a lot of opportunities out there to keep learning and progressing, um, whatever field you're working in, whatever area you're wanting to improve. Um, you know, there's, there's a lot of stuff out there and that I'm still learning that, uh, and that's why I'm still progressing into that. Um, I'm just trying to give off not this luxury life that... don't get me wrong, a lot of people like it, it's good to have, but you've got to try... the, the journey I'm on is trying to find happiness from within, you know, and, and, and putting that back to people, what I'm learning, I'm wanting to put back to people. So yeah, i- i- it's a, it's a big journey, but that's one of the main reasons that I want to use my social or my platform from. I do get, I do understand, uh, there's a lot of big people out there that you do have to use it for some type of income, you know, some work, you've got to do sponsored posts, I do get that, and there will be times where I may have to do that.

Chris Williamson 40:58 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 40:58 But the, the main reasons is obviously I want to push out there that there is also faults, there's not always, you know... it's not always luxuries ..........................

Chris Williamson 41:07 What does, what does happiness mean to you then?

Leon Scott 41:09 Happiness means to me, um, helping others progress within their life, um, and finding more about themself, I'd like to say. So I'm... like I say, I'm still learning that about myself so I can't... you know, if- if- if my loved ones are happy around me, the people who I love, um, are comfortable, happy and pain-free, um, I think, I think that, that is my overall aim. I- it's amazing to have all these luxuries and attachments that go with it, but I think that become... that comes because of society and what people are pushing on you, and he's got the latest trainers, so I've got the... but would you really get them if it wasn't a trend, if it wasn't a fashion, et cetera, you know. It's, it's, it's finding something else that makes you happy and not something that's an attachment.

Chris Williamson 42:02 Yeah. I mean, the hedonic treadmill, there's a, a really interesting study that Yusuf cites all the time where he talks about people who become disabled and lose the use of their legs and people who win the lottery and have like an un- essentially an unlimited amount of money, their self-rated happiness after six months is the same.

Leon Scott 42:18 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 42:18 So they have this particular baseline of happiness at month zero, then this incident occurs and they split off, and then by the time you get back to six months, both of them have adapted.

Leon Scott 42:28 Right.

Chris Williamson 42:29 So I think people that presume that material goods will bring them happiness...... are chasing down-

Leon Scott 42:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 42:36 ... a, a, a, an endless treadmill that's not really actually got anything at the end of it.

Leon Scott 42:41 Yeah, exactly. E- but like, um, I recently learned that in one of my courses on, uh, meditation that, you know, attachments will eventually cause suffering and pain. You know, if you're relying on attachment for your happiness, you know, "Oh, I want the next big car. Okay, I've got a car. Oh, now I want another car." So you're of- like you're saying there, you're forever chasing something for your happiness that's only giving you temporary happiness. And again, this is something I've learned and- and wanted to progress in terms of trying to find happiness from within, so I'm just happy just sitting with you chatting.

Chris Williamson 43:12 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 43:12 You know? And like, all I do... Don't get me wrong, I'm, I'm not saying I don't like a nice car, I don't like nice clothes, 'cause that's the industry that I'm in.

Chris Williamson 43:21 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 43:22 You know, and that's the industry that sometimes I feel like I've got to be in, um, t- to, to still have the connection to be able to still speak and pass a message. You still got to come across cool and not crazy. You know?

Chris Williamson 43:34 If you were gi- if you were given the choice, would you just be in a pair of elephant pants and barefoot?

Leon Scott 43:37 Yeah, I really would. If that, if that, if that was acceptable. But again, that's me, um... How can I say it? If that was acceptable in terms of... 'Cause if, if, if I just done that now, people would go, "Leon's lost the plot."

Chris Williamson 43:53 (laughs)

Leon Scott 43:53 (laughs) Literally. And no one would listen to me and what I'm trying to pass out and what I'm trying to say.

Chris Williamson 43:58 Yeah.

Leon Scott 43:59 Um, you know, so there's a lot of celebrities that's done it where people think, "Oh, he's gone crazy." But when you look at like-

Chris Williamson 44:06 Jim Carrey.

Leon Scott 44:07 J- there you go. Perfect example. I was always ... I was gonna say Keanu Reeves, but yeah-

Chris Williamson 44:10 (laughs) Keanu, Keanu Reeves is just, just as mental though.

Leon Scott 44:12 Yeah. Um, so yeah, so these type of people where people go, "Oh, he's lost the plot." And actually if you look into what they're trying to say and what they're trying to deliver-

Chris Williamson 44:19 No, he's fucking enlightened.

Leon Scott 44:20 Yeah, they've not lost the plot. They're... But a lot of these people, they go, "Oh, he's gone crazy." They've not, but that's what I'm saying if, if me and you all of a sudden just-

Chris Williamson 44:29 Barefoot, elephant pants-

Leon Scott 44:30 Yeah. They'd just think two lads have gone fucking daft.

Chris Williamson 44:32 Yeah.

Leon Scott 44:33 You know, and then-

Chris Williamson 44:33 So I think you, you've touched on something that's really interesting there which is that, uh, an easy criticism of what you've put across and what I, what I put across as well is, "Yeah, like, good one, mate. You talk about all of this mindfulness bollocks."

Leon Scott 44:49 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 44:49 "But like, you know, you still drive around in a nice car and you still, like, wear nice clothes and y- you know, you still upload topless photos and stuff."

Leon Scott 44:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 44:57 "You're not uploading a pho- a nice photo of a piece of tree bark or something like that."

Leon Scott 45:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:01 "And I think the point that is... the dual edged sword of this is that you still need to play the game."

Leon Scott 45:10 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:10 "We have to play the game."

Leon Scott 45:11 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 45:11 "And y- as you've said, these particular rules-"

Leon Scott 45:14 It's, it's, it's that play the role that you're given type thing, in that you know, you, you need to... You can't just jump from one thing to another when people aren't ready type of thing.

Chris Williamson 45:24 Well, the... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you need to capitalize on the effective strategies within the particular platform that you're trying to do.

Leon Scott 45:32 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 45:32 Like it's, it's all well and good you being a fantastic footballer, but if you turn up to practice-

Leon Scott 45:37 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 45:37 ... with a tennis racquet, it doesn't matter. You're not p- you're no longer playing the game.

Leon Scott 45:40 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:40 And Instagram has, uh, the social media platform in general, it has a, a set of rules. But I, I think that one thing that is very positive is the fact that you're able to try and put across an image which is still within that, but on the other side a message which is maybe trying to progress people's minds a little bit more.

Leon Scott 46:00 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 46:00 You know, in, in 10 years time if you go full Jim Carrey and you've got a beard-

Leon Scott 46:03 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 46:03 ... and you've got the string vest on.

Leon Scott 46:05 So you know, then you know why.

Chris Williamson 46:06 Exactly. There you go.

Leon Scott 46:06 I- it's been a journey. It hasn't just-

Chris Williamson 46:08 It's just a fucking long game.

Leon Scott 46:08 Yeah, yeah. (laughs) I just needed to bring you with me. (laughs) Yeah, exactly. It hasn't just been like, boom. You know, it, it... It's like a progression thing where you can see maybe, yeah, he's getting, he's getting more crazy and crazier. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 46:18 Yeah, he's getting more and more-

Leon Scott 46:19 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 46:19 ... and more ridiculous. Yeah, but I'll go with him.

Leon Scott 46:20 You know, and that, and that-

Chris Williamson 46:20 I'll see what he does. Yeah, yeah.

Leon Scott 46:21 And that is why I'm... No, it's, uh, perfect what you were saying, you've got to play the game until, you know... You've, you've gotta slowly give the, give people what I'm learning, which obviously the people who I'm learning off, that's what I'm feeling off them. 'Cause if I just turned up with a Buddhist monk one day, my mate, it'd be like, "Are you taking the piss?"

Chris Williamson 46:37 (laughs) Yeah. Yeah.

Leon Scott 46:37 You know? 'Cause at the end of the day, I'm still a lad, I'm still, uh, I still have a laugh, I still piss about, I still have a drink. I still do all the lad things, but in my spare time I'm still wanting to learn about myself, you know, with inside myself.

Chris Williamson 46:49 Yeah. I think... It's something that I often get conflicted about which is that there's certain elements of the game that needs to be played with... Whether it be to do with club promo or, you know... For me particularly one of them is the fact that I need to use my phone and I need to continue to use the Instagram platform and, and, and my other socials to grow my exposure which enables me to put things that I genuinely value like this podcast and other projects-

Leon Scott 47:17 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 47:17 ... that I've got coming up across. Uh, having to do that whilst not actually believing in the platform itself, like I... You know, if I was able to do it in another way, like if I was able to... If I was able to grow my exposure through meditation hours-

Leon Scott 47:33 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:33 ... fuck. Like-

Leon Scott 47:34 Yeah. Exactly, yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:34 ... meet me on the cushion.

Leon Scott 47:35 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 47:35 Do you know what I mean? So... But i- i- it's, it's difficult. Do you ever get conflicted with that, with having to do the Instagram thing whilst you, you know-

Leon Scott 47:44 Yeah. Well, like, like, like, you just touched upon there, I'd love to, you know, go to a meditation class and, and, and, you know, video or take pictures of the meditation. Which I do-

Chris Williamson 47:54 And that, that be the content. Yeah.

Leon Scott 47:55 Yeah. Which, which is what I... The way I try to break it up is my stories for that and my main page is for... More of a, of a message, more of a, you know, like, like, my projects in terms of, like, my books, uh, my, my six weeks that I've just put on. That's what I'm wanting to do to help people. So everything that I'm learning I'm wanting to help in that way, so I still need to, I need to prac- I need to, you know, practice what I preach type thing. There's no point in me saying, "A lean 365" and me being fat 365.

Chris Williamson 48:25 (laughs)

Leon Scott 48:25 You know? These type of things. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 48:27 Fat 1-365.

Leon Scott 48:27 Yeah, exactly. So I need to... And it, it's n- that's the message I'm trying to put across on my page. But with that, with me working on my physique, I'm also trying to show within the captions that the mind type of things 'cause I can't exactly show my mind on a picture.

Chris Williamson 48:41 Yeah.

Leon Scott 48:41 But I try to show what my mind's saying or what my mind's learnt.

Chris Williamson 48:44 Yeah.

Leon Scott 48:44 But the image of the picture is, is the physique what people want to see-

Chris Williamson 48:48 Yeah.

Leon Scott 48:48 ... or what they wanna...... well, what I should, I assume they wanna see. Maybe they wanna see it differently.

Chris Williamson 48:52 Yeah, maybe Dad bod's coming back on.

Leon Scott 48:53 Yeah, maybe-

Chris Williamson 48:54 Maybe we'll be-

Leon Scott 48:55 Maybe... well, I think we'll, we'll do a Balkan season.

Chris Williamson 48:57 If we come back in, if we come back in 12 months' time and dad bod's around.

Leon Scott 48:59 We'll do a dad bod on the set, eh? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 49:01 Fine. That would, that would be great. We can just loll around like, uh-

Leon Scott 49:02 Summer dad bod, yeah? Oh, we could just, yeah. A few burgers there, like. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 49:07 Yeah. I mean, that would be great. I, I hate having to be in a fucking deficit.

Leon Scott 49:10 (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 49:10 Um, but yeah, like, I, I think you, you're right and for people out there who are maybe thinking that, um ... it's quite easy to see the lifestyles and stuff that get put across on Instagram and take them at face value. But we've got somebody here, you've got two people sat on the same couch who are both saying that the images that we put across are us playing a game.

Leon Scott 49:35 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 49:35 And still something that we're proud about, you know, there's photo shoots that I'm sure that you love and there's ones that I love as well. And, you know, I think, "Fuck, I really, really like that photo of me."

Leon Scott 49:43 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 49:43 "I think that photo's awesome." But it's not me. That's not, that's not the essence of who I am and I don't think it's necessarily the essence of who you are either.

Leon Scott 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 49:52 It's like, look, like, i- if there is someone that you really, really idolize, think about the message they're putting across and be maybe a little bit more critical about how high of a pedestal should I put this person on?

Leon Scott 50:04 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:05 Like, is it just the fact that they're good-looking or have they actually got values that I care about?

Leon Scott 50:08 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:08 Have they actually got a level of integrity that I would want for myself?

Leon Scott 50:12 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:12 And an, an easy litmus test, the canary in the coal mine for this is, do you genuinely, genuinely think that that person's happy?

Leon Scott 50:19 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:19 Like, because for the most... Like, I know, you know, both you and me-

Leon Scott 50:23 So.

Chris Williamson 50:23 ... will know shitloads of people that work a lot on Instagram and have a big following and this, that, and the other, and they're fucking miserable.

Leon Scott 50:29 Yeah. And that's why I'm certain, that's why I preach you put the meditation, put the learn, and put the reading, put it into practice. 'Cause there has been times and there still is times when I'm un- I'm unhappy. I still get thoughts and feelings where I'm, I'm sad and I'm, I'm, I'm up- I'm upset and, you know. But these thoughts, these feelings, these moments have become easier for me, become less of a problem for me. You know, I still get them and I will always get them until I get further, maybe. Maybe they might go, maybe they won't. But, you know, as people who are constantly still going on about... maybe not going on, but still having these problems and still suffering these thoughts and feelings, but they're doing nothing about it.

Chris Williamson 51:10 Yeah.

Leon Scott 51:11 Um, so which is what-

Chris Williamson 51:12 Or even doubling down and covering them up.

Leon Scott 51:14 Yeah. Or, yeah, or trying to hide them, trying to run from, trying to pretend that they're happy with their latest car, their latest clothing. Like-

Chris Williamson 51:21 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 51:22 Yes, that does make you happy, it makes me happy, it would make you happy if you went and bought, like, brand new pair of trainers. It does us all, but maybe for a short space of time. There's nowt wrong with still doing that-

Chris Williamson 51:31 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 51:31 ... but also working on yourself from within. You know? But is it like the measures I try to put across, if you try to combine them both or even all three, you know, your lifestyle you live, um, your mindfulness from within, and the look on the outside in terms of your fitness, whatever that, if you can combine all them three, then you will start to find some, like, mid- some middle ground of happiness.

Chris Williamson 51:53 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 51:53 And then that's something that I'm searching for and still looking at every day.

Chris Williamson 51:56 Yeah. That's awesome, man.

Leon Scott 51:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:58 So before we finish up, are there any resources or books that you would recommend to people? Any websites or blogs that you often visit?

Leon Scott 52:06 Yeah. Um, there's, there's an app, obviously the Calm app that we spoke about.

Chris Williamson 52:10 Mm-hmm.

Leon Scott 52:10 I've got a, uh, there's a reading app that I always use called Medium, if you've heard of that.

Chris Williamson 52:14 Medium's fantastic. Yeah.

Leon Scott 52:16 Yeah. Um, so again, any, any topic that you're interested in, just download the app Medium, search the topic, brings anything up. Um, and just have a read on it, you know. Uh, and they're only, like, 10, five minutes, 15 minutes little ar- articles that you can read and find some really useful information. There's Calm, you get seven days, um, trial, so you can do it for seven days if you don't feel anything from it. If you don't. If you do, you can get the app for a bit longer. Um, Motivation Manifesto is one of the best books I've read. Uh, maybe try and find in one of your local Buddhist centers, um, give it a go, see how you feel. Again, it's putting these things into practice. Like, I'll be the first to say I wasn't the best reader at school and I'm still not now, you know, like, which is why I'll only read for 15, 20 minutes, max half an hour. I'm not one of these who can sit and read for two, three hours 'cause it's-

Chris Williamson 53:07 Crack a book out in a day, yeah.

Leon Scott 53:08 Yeah. 'Cause I, I... my head just goes all over and I'm thinking of this, thinking of that. But it's getting better, you know. And, and a lot of my mates and even my family are like, "What? You read now?"

Chris Williamson 53:18 (laughs)

Leon Scott 53:18 Like, it was, it probably the last thing I'd ever think of, you know, when I was back at school, even in college when I played football for Middlesbrough, 'cause I just didn't get it, but now I get it. I get what they're doing, they're working on... It doesn't even have to be working, might be just a really nice story that you've like-

Chris Williamson 53:32 Good fiction that you enjoy, yeah.

Leon Scott 53:33 Yeah, you, you're, you're just getting lost, like it's just sometimes in a book you just like, you know, it's like, "Wow, wow." You, you just get lost of what's actually out there, you know, and, and disengage from everything else and it, it's relaxing and it's peaceful. So yeah, read- the reading is, um ... Highly Performance Habits, is it? Brendan Butcher's?

Chris Williamson 53:55 High Perform-

Leon Scott 53:55 High, High Performance Habits, that's the one.

Chris Williamson 53:56 High Performance Habits, yeah.

Leon Scott 53:57 That's a really good book in terms of business and applying maybe what goals you've got, maybe what ambitions you've got, um, getting the best out of yourself, getting the best out of your team, what's around you, the resources. Um, so that book was good for that. Um, so yeah, that, that's a few things that I would recommend.

Chris Williamson 54:13 I'm a m- massive fan of Medium, um, we spoke about it on a life hack, previous life hacks episode, but it's just like the best curated news site that you've ever heard of. So imagine the top filtering of every blog on the planet, um, and it's submitted... The app's beautiful, it remembers your place. You can, um, you get suggestions sent to you. It's like if Facebook was meant for learning shit.

Leon Scott 54:36 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 54:37 Like, and every... it's like, oh, you recently read something about, um, cryptocurrency, so here's something else that kind of is associated with that-

Leon Scott 54:45 Yeah. No.

Chris Williamson 54:45 ... and it learns over time. I, I absolutely love it. I'm a massive, massive fan.

Leon Scott 54:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 54:49 Um, so, Leon, where can the listeners find you online?

Leon Scott 54:52 Um, you can find me on my Instagram, leonfreescott, or you can find me on my website, it's just leon-scott.com.

Chris Williamson 55:00 Fantastic.

Leon Scott 55:01 Um, and if there's anything you want to ask me, uh, just drop it in my comments on the latest, uh, latest picture or DM me. If there's anything I can help with, I'll find the time, I'll get back to you.

Chris Williamson 55:11 Man, it's been a pleasure.

Leon Scott 55:12 Thank you very much for having me, man. Thank you.

Chris Williamson 55:14 Thank you.

Leon Scott 55:14 Till next time.

Chris Williamson 55:15 Catch you later on.

Leon Scott 55:15 (laughs) Brilliant.

Narrator 55:18 (ambiance music)