Modern WisdomMimetic Desire: Why Do We Want? - Luke Burgis | Modern Wisdom Podcast 344
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:37
Memetic desire in the Instagram age: “eyebrows all the way down”
Luke unpacks a provocative quote about Instagram and cosmetic trends to illustrate mimetic desire: we want things because other people want them. Social media becomes a high-powered desire-generating machine, multiplying comparisons and making it harder to tell meaningful wants from noise.
- •Dana Tortorici’s quote as a modern description of mimetic desire
- •Instagram as an engine for manufacturing and spreading wants
- •“Turtles all the way down”: desire loops with no clear endpoint
- •Why constant exposure to others’ wants can fuel misery and depression
- 1:37 – 3:12
Is mimetic desire adaptive—or just human nature?
Luke explains René Girard’s view that mimetic desire is a built-in part of being human, likely tied to imitation’s role in culture and learning. Imitation supports language, social bonding, and coordination, even if it can also misfire.
- •Girard’s claim: mimetic desire is foundational to human nature
- •Imitation’s evolutionary/cultural benefits (language, culture, social learning)
- •Imitation as social lubricant (reducing awkwardness, enabling cohesion)
- •Modern individualism hides how socially-shaped our wanting really is
- 3:12 – 5:40
Needs vs desires: do we want anything non-mimetically?
They explore whether any desires are non-memetic, distinguishing biological needs from higher-order wants. Luke argues that abstract desires—careers, lifestyles, status goods—virtually always depend on models and social valuation.
- •Debate among Girard readers: is all desire mimetic?
- •Biological drives (food, water, sex) vs socially-constructed desires
- •Abstract goals (career/lifestyle/fashion) require models—nothing ex nihilo
- •Even basics like water get memetically marketed and differentiated
- 5:40 – 7:53
Maslow gets messy above the basics: the “universe of desire” has no hierarchy
Chris connects mimetic desire to Maslow’s hierarchy, and Luke argues that once basic survival and security are met, the pyramid breaks down. Beyond needs, desire becomes pinball-like—bouncing between models—unless you step back and impose structure.
- •Past the first levels, Maslow’s hierarchy stops functioning as a hierarchy
- •Desire is less objective and more model-driven than we assume
- •Life as “pinballs” ricocheting between models and borrowed goals
- •Importance of stepping outside the mimetic game to evaluate ‘objective goods’
- 7:53 – 12:21
How Girard discovered mimetic desire through literature (and why it’s like gravity)
Luke tells the story of how Girard—trained in history—found mimetic desire by reading great novels as anthropological data. Like Schliemann using The Iliad to find Troy, Girard took texts seriously and found that characters’ desires always have a model.
- •“Mimetic desire is to psychology what gravity is to physics” framing
- •Girard’s interdisciplinary method: literature as a map of human motivation
- •Schliemann/Troy analogy: outsiders can spot what experts miss
- •Mirror neurons and neuroscience later corroborate imitation’s centrality
- 12:21 – 15:11
Why adults hide imitation: toddlers, role models, and the “innovation” myth
They discuss how mimetic desire is obvious in children but becomes socially denied in adulthood. Modern culture prizes originality, so imitation goes underground—despite social media making us more mimetic than ever.
- •Toddler toy example: desire intensifies when others want the same object
- •Adults suppress awareness of imitation; “imitator” becomes an insult
- •Entrepreneurship culture overvalues innovation and downplays copying
- •Social media increases imitation while disguising its influence
- 15:11 – 16:57
External vs internal mediators: when models turn into rivals
Luke introduces Girard’s distinction between external mediators (distant, untouchable models) and internal mediators (peers and near-equals). Imitation of close models is more volatile because it can trigger reciprocal awareness, rivalry, and conflict.
- •“Breaking the fourth wall” is easier with celebrities than with peers
- •External mediators: little risk of rivalry because the model doesn’t ‘imitate back’
- •Internal mediators: colleagues/partners become sensitive mirrors and obstacles
- •Why imitation among near-equals is socially risky and often denied
- 16:57 – 20:04
Mimesis as alchemy: Bernays, marketing, and manufactured legitimacy
Chris frames mimesis as a kind of alchemy that can create value from nothing; Luke agrees and gives the Edward Bernays example. By staging “torches of freedom,” Bernays used models to legitimize taboo-breaking and generate mass desire—an early blueprint for modern persuasion.
- •Alchemy idea: perceived desirability can be created by visible wanting
- •Edward Bernays’ Lucky Strike stunt and the “torches of freedom” framing
- •Models provide legitimacy and permission, not just information
- •Parallels to dating tactics and modern marketing playbooks
- 20:04 – 23:07
Signaling, first movers, and the spectrum of mimesis
They connect mimetic desire to signaling: models tell us what’s ‘wantable,’ reducing uncertainty. They also examine ‘first mover’ behavior and conclude mimesis is best understood as a spectrum—mixing instinct, prior exposures, and social copying.
- •Models signal legitimacy: ‘If others want it, it must be valuable’
- •Doubt and self-correction when no community validates a desire
- •First movers exist, but their motivations can be instinctual or pre-modeled
- •Mimesis varies by degree rather than being all-or-nothing
- 23:07 – 33:01
When desires converge, rivalry follows: universities, social media, and cargo cult copying
Luke explains Girard’s next step: mimetic desire naturally produces conflict because shared wants create competition. Social media intensifies convergence while everyone tries to appear differentiated, leading to anxiety and superficial “cargo cult” imitation in startups and online behavior.
- •Girard’s sequence: mimetic desire → rivalry/conflict due to shared pursuit
- •University example: diverse goals converge into hypercompetitive funnels
- •Social media homogenizes expression while pressuring differentiation
- •Cargo cult mimicry: copying surface tactics (emails/tweets/style) vs substance
- 33:01 – 36:57
Memetic crisis and the scapegoat mechanism: how groups ‘solve’ runaway conflict
Luke describes what happens when mimesis spreads through groups without shared, stabilizing models: a memetic crisis. Historically, Girard argues, societies relieve this pressure through scapegoating—redirecting internal conflict toward a single target to restore cohesion.
- •Memetic contagion can make groups increasingly homogenous and reactive
- •Absence of shared models fuels instability and faction formation
- •Scapegoating as a release valve: from ‘all against all’ to ‘all against one’
- •Yom Kippur scapegoat ritual as an archetype of blame transfer and cohesion
- 36:57 – 39:15
Politics as negative cohesion: enemies, fractured narratives, and missing shared models
Chris and Luke apply scapegoating to contemporary polarization, where identity can be defined more by enemies than ideals. They note how hard it is to find shared cultural models today, reinforcing the need for out-groups to create in-group unity.
- •Modern partisanship increasingly defined by opposition rather than aspiration
- •Evidence shift: disliking the other party outweighs liking one’s own (2008→2012)
- •Collapse of grand narratives reduces shared reference points
- •‘Who do we all agree is admirable?’ becomes surprisingly hard to answer
- 39:15 – 45:33
A rivalry that ends well: Ferrari vs Lamborghini and choosing when to exit the game
Luke tells the Lamborghini origin story as an example of mimetic rivalry producing innovation rather than destruction. The rivalry begins with resentment and imitation, but ends with Ferruccio Lamborghini consciously refusing an endless escalation—choosing a fulfilling life over perpetual competition.
- •Rivalry sparked by a practical failure (Ferrari clutch) and a humiliating remark
- •Imitation as strategy: Lamborghini combines best practices across manufacturers
- •Innovation can be an outcome of rivalry—if it doesn’t metastasize
- •Wisdom of opting out: refusing racing to avoid a lifelong war; bull symbolism
- 45:33 – 53:54
Regaining agency: naming models, desire audits, and retreats for perspective
They shift from diagnosis to practice: you can’t eliminate mimetic desire, but you can become intentional about it. Luke recommends identifying your models (including rivals), tracing the history of your goals, and creating regular distance—retreats and reviews—to see the system you’re inside.
- •You can’t transcend mimesis entirely; freedom is something you ‘win or lose’
- •Name your models (positive/negative) across domains to regain control
- •Do a ‘history of desire’ to find forgotten influences (e.g., movie-driven identity)
- •Annual retreats and periodic reviews create the distance needed for clarity
- 53:54 – 57:31
Transcendent models and perennial truths: anchoring outside the quicksand
In closing, Luke argues that without models that transcend your immediate environment—people from history, ideals, or perennial philosophical truths—you remain captive to the ‘tyranny of the age.’ A stable external reference helps resist runaway, metric-driven, status-chasing desires.
- •Goodhart’s law lens: measures can become corrupted goals
- •Runaway escalation in modern status markers (bigger/faster/more)
- •Need for transcendent models or ideals beyond the local mimetic ecosystem
- •Perennial philosophy and ‘the good life’ as stabilizing reference points
