Modern WisdomMimetic Desire: Why Do We Want? - Luke Burgis | Modern Wisdom Podcast 344
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:37
Memetic desire in the Instagram age: “eyebrows all the way down”
Luke unpacks a provocative quote about Instagram and cosmetic trends to illustrate mimetic desire: we want things because other people want them. Social media becomes a high-powered desire-generating machine, multiplying comparisons and making it harder to tell meaningful wants from noise.
- 1:37 – 3:12
Is mimetic desire adaptive—or just human nature?
Luke explains René Girard’s view that mimetic desire is a built-in part of being human, likely tied to imitation’s role in culture and learning. Imitation supports language, social bonding, and coordination, even if it can also misfire.
- 3:12 – 5:40
Needs vs desires: do we want anything non-mimetically?
They explore whether any desires are non-memetic, distinguishing biological needs from higher-order wants. Luke argues that abstract desires—careers, lifestyles, status goods—virtually always depend on models and social valuation.
- 5:40 – 7:53
Maslow gets messy above the basics: the “universe of desire” has no hierarchy
Chris connects mimetic desire to Maslow’s hierarchy, and Luke argues that once basic survival and security are met, the pyramid breaks down. Beyond needs, desire becomes pinball-like—bouncing between models—unless you step back and impose structure.
- 7:53 – 12:21
How Girard discovered mimetic desire through literature (and why it’s like gravity)
Luke tells the story of how Girard—trained in history—found mimetic desire by reading great novels as anthropological data. Like Schliemann using The Iliad to find Troy, Girard took texts seriously and found that characters’ desires always have a model.
- 12:21 – 15:11
Why adults hide imitation: toddlers, role models, and the “innovation” myth
They discuss how mimetic desire is obvious in children but becomes socially denied in adulthood. Modern culture prizes originality, so imitation goes underground—despite social media making us more mimetic than ever.
- 15:11 – 16:57
External vs internal mediators: when models turn into rivals
Luke introduces Girard’s distinction between external mediators (distant, untouchable models) and internal mediators (peers and near-equals). Imitation of close models is more volatile because it can trigger reciprocal awareness, rivalry, and conflict.
- 16:57 – 20:04
Mimesis as alchemy: Bernays, marketing, and manufactured legitimacy
Chris frames mimesis as a kind of alchemy that can create value from nothing; Luke agrees and gives the Edward Bernays example. By staging “torches of freedom,” Bernays used models to legitimize taboo-breaking and generate mass desire—an early blueprint for modern persuasion.
- 20:04 – 23:07
Signaling, first movers, and the spectrum of mimesis
They connect mimetic desire to signaling: models tell us what’s ‘wantable,’ reducing uncertainty. They also examine ‘first mover’ behavior and conclude mimesis is best understood as a spectrum—mixing instinct, prior exposures, and social copying.
- 23:07 – 33:01
When desires converge, rivalry follows: universities, social media, and cargo cult copying
Luke explains Girard’s next step: mimetic desire naturally produces conflict because shared wants create competition. Social media intensifies convergence while everyone tries to appear differentiated, leading to anxiety and superficial “cargo cult” imitation in startups and online behavior.
- 33:01 – 36:57
Memetic crisis and the scapegoat mechanism: how groups ‘solve’ runaway conflict
Luke describes what happens when mimesis spreads through groups without shared, stabilizing models: a memetic crisis. Historically, Girard argues, societies relieve this pressure through scapegoating—redirecting internal conflict toward a single target to restore cohesion.
- 36:57 – 39:15
Politics as negative cohesion: enemies, fractured narratives, and missing shared models
Chris and Luke apply scapegoating to contemporary polarization, where identity can be defined more by enemies than ideals. They note how hard it is to find shared cultural models today, reinforcing the need for out-groups to create in-group unity.
- 39:15 – 45:33
A rivalry that ends well: Ferrari vs Lamborghini and choosing when to exit the game
Luke tells the Lamborghini origin story as an example of mimetic rivalry producing innovation rather than destruction. The rivalry begins with resentment and imitation, but ends with Ferruccio Lamborghini consciously refusing an endless escalation—choosing a fulfilling life over perpetual competition.
- 45:33 – 53:54
Regaining agency: naming models, desire audits, and retreats for perspective
They shift from diagnosis to practice: you can’t eliminate mimetic desire, but you can become intentional about it. Luke recommends identifying your models (including rivals), tracing the history of your goals, and creating regular distance—retreats and reviews—to see the system you’re inside.
- 53:54 – 57:31
Transcendent models and perennial truths: anchoring outside the quicksand
In closing, Luke argues that without models that transcend your immediate environment—people from history, ideals, or perennial philosophical truths—you remain captive to the ‘tyranny of the age.’ A stable external reference helps resist runaway, metric-driven, status-chasing desires.
