Sobriety And The Future Of Social Media Marketing | Dominic McGregor

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   I'm joined by Dominic…

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      I'm joined by Dominic McGregor of Social Chain.

   2. DMDominic McGregor0:03

      The way I think you can only really know someone is what they consume on the internet between the hours of 11:30 and 12:30-

   3. CWChris Williamson0:10

      (laughs)

   4. DMDominic McGregor0:10

      ... when no one else is around.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:12

      (laughs) So you're another year sober now. How long is it now, two and a half years?

   6. DMDominic McGregor0:15

      Two years and nine months. I've gone from 23 to 26, so when you mention that you don't drink to a 26-year-old, they get it.

   7. CWChris Williamson0:21

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DMDominic McGregor0:22

      So-

   9. CWChris Williamson0:22

      When you do it to 23-year-olds, they get it a bit less.

   10. DMDominic McGregor0:24

       They don't get it. There's no situation where-

   11. CWChris Williamson0:26

       (laughs)

   12. DMDominic McGregor0:26

       ... I'd feel like I'd ever need to drink. It's the same way if, if I, if, if we were sat here talking about cocaine and I said, "I'm never gonna do cocaine again," you wouldn't question me.

   13. CWChris Williamson0:32

       If you're drinking, especially heavily, you'll be less picky about your social engagements-

   14. DMDominic McGregor0:36

       Yep.

   15. CWChris Williamson0:36

       ... because you know that if you've got shit or boring friends, or you've got to go to some party that you probably don't wanna go to anyway, kinda doesn't really matter 'cause you can just sedate the boredom by getting lashed. Like, if you want to go out and drink, that is fine, but you have to concede that that drink is either, at the best, keeping your life the same length or making it shorter. Every night out and every drink that you have is bringing you closer to death, and that's a fact.

   16. DMDominic McGregor1:01

       Mm-hmm. (wind blowing)

   17. CWChris Williamson1:02

       Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I'm joined by Dominic McGregor of Social Chain fame. How are you, man?

   18. DMDominic McGregor1:08

       Good, thank you. How are you?

   19. CWChris Williamson1:09

       Very good. Welcome to my studio.

   20. DMDominic McGregor1:11

       Yeah, it's nice, yeah. Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:12

       It's really lovely here, isn't it?

   22. DMDominic McGregor1:14

       Or better than the last episode. (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson1:16

       (laughs) Um, it's been almost exactly a year since we sat down.

   24. DMDominic McGregor1:19

       Yeah, a year. Yeah, about a year and two weeks.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:22

       Yeah.

   26. DMDominic McGregor1:22

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:22

       Almost exactly bang on. How have you been last year?

   28. DMDominic McGregor1:25

       Yeah, been, been, been really good. Um, I was, I s- messaged you the oth- the other week because I was in the gym, and a lovely woman called, um, Tracy said to me, "Oh, heard you, heard you on a podcast." I went, "Oh, uh, uh, hi." She's like the PT there. I've never seen her, she must be new or something.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:42

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DMDominic McGregor1:42

       And she's like, "Oh, um, wh- well, which one?" And s- uh, um, Mo- uh, Modern Wisdom. I was like, "Oh, okay."
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm. …

   1. CWChris Williamson15:00

      and on-

   2. DMDominic McGregor15:00

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson15:00

      ... on the feelings that come from that. Um, and that there's a, I think there's an argument to be made that going completely sober still allows the substance to have some degree of control over you.

   4. DMDominic McGregor15:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson15:15

      But the, a reintroduction of it on your terms is the ultimate completion.

   6. DMDominic McGregor15:20

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson15:20

      Um, and you said at the time that your feelings were you weren't going to drink for the foreseeable future-

   8. DMDominic McGregor15:28

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson15:28

      ... for as long as you could see.

   10. DMDominic McGregor15:30

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson15:30

       One of the reasons being a fear about potential relapse-

   12. DMDominic McGregor15:34

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson15:34

       ... and also just that you didn't want the downstream effect of drinking full stop.

   14. DMDominic McGregor15:38

       Yep.

   15. CWChris Williamson15:39

       Where are you at now with that?

   16. DMDominic McGregor15:40

       So the way I, the way I think about it now is that my problem never was the drinking. That, my, the problem with the... The drinking was a side effect of what was, like, inherently wrong with me, so it was an escape mechanism. So I would turn to that when I needed, um, to funnel my energy and anxieties and situation and escape it. So I can now deal with that feeling elsewhere. Um, so I can deal with it, um, through going for a walk, or I can deal with it with just, you know, having 20 minutes of silence to myself and kind of going, processing it and getting it out of my system. So I don't need the, uh, to turn to alcohol to solve that problem anymore, um, also because it's detrimental when you turn to alcohol and use it to solve them problems. So, um, I don't, I don't need it, wh- for, I would use it before.

   17. CWChris Williamson16:31

       Mm-hmm.

   18. DMDominic McGregor16:31

       So then it becomes a com-, uh, then it becomes a complete question of health and lifestyle choices, because it's, you're not dependent on it anymore. You're not s-, you're not, you're not a s- a substance abuser. But you make a choice that, "Why do I need to bring that back into my life?" And if you c-, if I can, I think I said it last time, if I can ever find a, a reason why I need to bring it back into my life, I will.

   19. CWChris Williamson16:50

       Mm-hmm.

   20. DMDominic McGregor16:51

       But I can't.

   21. CWChris Williamson16:52

       Right now.

   22. DMDominic McGregor16:52

       Right now. I, I, and I don't, I can't foresee a situation where I never needed to bring it back into my life.

   23. CWChris Williamson16:59

       Mm.

   24. DMDominic McGregor16:59

       I just don't, I just d- I can't. There's n-, there's no, there's n- there's no... I, I, I could do every-, like I said, I do everything I, I want. I can go out. I can spend time with friends. I can go to the pub. Like, there's noth-, there's no situation-

   25. CWChris Williamson17:12

       Mm.

   26. DMDominic McGregor17:12

       ... where I'd feel like I'd ever need to drink. Um, and it's the, like I said, it's the same way if, if a-, if, if we were sat here talking about cocaine.

   27. CWChris Williamson17:19

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DMDominic McGregor17:20

       And I said, "I'm never gonna do cocaine again."

   29. CWChris Williamson17:21

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DMDominic McGregor17:22

       You wouldn't question me.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   I do now. Yeah.…

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      to drink.

   2. DMDominic McGregor30:00

      I do now. Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson30:00

      I'm not a big drinker naturally. But that one time ... And I was like, "Right, I want to see ..." First off, I completed six months. I was like, "12 seems like a figure, but 18 seems like a motherfucker."

   4. DMDominic McGregor30:12

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson30:12

      "So I'm gonna do 18." And by doing it, I knew that I'd go through two winters that would be a little bit less difficult, but one summer which would be pretty tough.

   6. DMDominic McGregor30:21

      The, the, the, the re- I feel like there is a replacement for everything, and like for Kopparberg's, kombucha.

   7. CWChris Williamson30:27

      (laughs)

   8. DMDominic McGregor30:28

      Like, honestly.

   9. CWChris Williamson30:29

      Come on, you can't go into a British pub, like, as the s- the black bull or something in-

   10. DMDominic McGregor30:35

       (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson30:35

       ... in, in Over the Hedge and be like, "Uh, excuse me. Uh, I see that you've got Kopparberg on the menu. I wondered if you have any, uh, kombucha because, uh, m- my microbiome in my gut is saying to me... By the way, have you heard that Lord of the Rings are coming out on Warhammer?" Like... (laughs)

   12. DMDominic McGregor30:53

       You're just so weird.

   13. CWChris Williamson30:54

       I know. I've completely rumbled you.

   14. DMDominic McGregor30:56

       So weird, being... (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson30:59

       (laughs)

   16. DMDominic McGregor30:59

       That's what I sound like as well.

   17. CWChris Williamson31:00

       Uh, no. No.

   18. DMDominic McGregor31:01

       But-

   19. CWChris Williamson31:01

       It's, it's not. Um-

   20. DMDominic McGregor31:02

       But that, that, it gives you that f- that feeling. Like, I was like... And do you know what? That like, h- like combucha has, it's fermented tea.

   21. CWChris Williamson31:11

       Mm-hmm.

   22. DMDominic McGregor31:11

       So it has, like, a little bit of... It's not alcoholic in any sense of the imagine.

   23. CWChris Williamson31:15

       Mm-hmm.

   24. DMDominic McGregor31:15

       But it's got, it's got fermented tea in it, so it does-

   25. CWChris Williamson31:18

       Mm-hmm.

   26. DMDominic McGregor31:18

       It is-

   27. CWChris Williamson31:19

       Triggers on some form of similar pathway.

   28. DMDominic McGregor31:21

       Yeah. Yeah. So it, it, it does, it does feel very refreshing. It gets that-

   29. CWChris Williamson31:27

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DMDominic McGregor31:27

       Like, my thing was a, always a pint after football.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. DMDominic McGregor45:00

      on here, I'm like, "I'm pretty sure we've pitched that similar idea before about-"

   2. CWChris Williamson45:03

      Yeah.

   3. DMDominic McGregor45:03

      ... about that to, to clients because it w- it won't work on social." But I dig a little deeper and, you know, I'm probably, um, in s- the top, uh, percentile of people who will skepticize around it.

   4. CWChris Williamson45:14

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   5. DMDominic McGregor45:14

      Uh, because I understand social better than most people, I understand brands. So, um, when I start hearing people thinking, "Is this real or is it fake?" That's when I'll probably be a bit concerned.

   6. CWChris Williamson45:24

      Mm-hmm.

   7. DMDominic McGregor45:24

      Um, but, eh, it's the most important thing now is, the two think, most important things are authenticity as a brand. Are you authentically who you say you are? And if you're not, people aren't gonna buy into you. We did a piece of research which said for the first time ever, um, brand values and brand, um, causes which they supported, like social causes, were more important than price point.

   8. CWChris Williamson45:47

      Wow.

   9. DMDominic McGregor45:47

      So literally what the b- what the brand says about you is more important than price. People will pay more money if it means they're buying or seen to be buying from somewhere which has a positive social impact. And then personalization. So personalization, talking to people where they want to be spoken to, talking to people how they want to be spoken to. So I'm, I'm at an age now where as a consumer I shop on my terms, you don't determine the terms that we shop on. I'm not gonna follow the full, funnel approach. I don't want that. People don't want that anymore. They don't, they, they have so many abilities to purchase here, purchase there, they'll sh- decide where they want to be purchased. And as a brand, you don't have to s- you have to not think of you're in control and driving people down the funnel, you have to be able to speak to them where they want to be spoken to.

   10. CWChris Williamson46:27

       Mm-hmm.

   11. DMDominic McGregor46:28

       So that's why you're seeing the rise of loads of social commerce and o- over other areas, uh, personal, it's take like taking, taking personal shoppers online, because everyone had a different way they want to experience things.

   12. CWChris Williamson46:39

       Mm-hmm.

   13. DMDominic McGregor46:39

       Uh, and that's what br- the brands that will win will be the ones that can cater wide rather than narrow. Think about if you at one point purchased a shop, you're never gonna be able to cater for everyone, because not everyone will pass that shop, and people will not go out of their way to go to that shop. The whole days of when we, when we were kids and we were like, "Oh, I really wanna go to the Trafford Centre."

   14. CWChris Williamson47:00

       Mm-hmm.

   15. DMDominic McGregor47:00

       Doesn't happen anymore. Kids are not like waking up saying, "I wanna go to some Trafford Centre."

   16. CWChris Williamson47:04

       I don't know, is the-

   17. DMDominic McGregor47:04

       At 16, 17, and spending the day walking around there.

   18. CWChris Williamson47:07

       True. Do you think that, um, at a younger age bracket, like the five or the, I guess, the four to kind of 11 age, do you think that it's gonna be difficult to replicate that magic of walking around somewhere like Toys"R"Us or a large toy store? There must be something inherent that triggers on kids.

   19. DMDominic McGregor47:28

       Oh, okay. So this, this is what, this is, this is my, one of my biggest eye... Oh God. Toys"R"Us missed the opportunity to be the home of toys.

   20. CWChris Williamson47:38

       Okay.

   21. DMDominic McGregor47:38

       They should have pivoted.

   22. CWChris Williamson47:39

       They could have gone, they stayed as Blockbuster but could have been Netflix?

   23. DMDominic McGregor47:42

       Yeah. They could have turned it into an experience.

   24. CWChris Williamson47:44

       Yeah.

   25. DMDominic McGregor47:44

       You go there, you play with the toys, you have games, you have PlayStations, everything. Ha-

   26. CWChris Williamson47:48

       Like IKEA.

   27. DMDominic McGregor47:49

       Like IKEA. If they did that, they'd still be here.

   28. CWChris Williamson47:53

       IKEA is basically Toys"R"Us for married couples, isn't it? (laughs)

   29. DMDominic McGregor47:56

       Yeah. Take, take, yeah, take, you know, you could, you, you know, to- if to- if I, you know, you see it now in, uh, M&S, M&S are putting cafes and stuff into all their shops because they know their demographic wants to come and have a coffee.

   30. CWChris Williamson48:06

       Mm-hmm.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:07:50

   The best there? …

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      alcohol was a sport, you'd have probably been like at least national-

   2. DMDominic McGregor1:00:03

      The best there?

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:03

      ... national champion.

   4. DMDominic McGregor1:00:04

      Oh, 100% I'd be, yeah. I'd be regional, definitely the best there.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:00:06

      Yeah.

   6. DMDominic McGregor1:00:07

      I'd be, I was the best-

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:07

      So you'd even taken alcohol to the extreme.

   8. DMDominic McGregor1:00:09

      I was the best at drinking.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:00:11

      Number one drinker. So yeah, like, you know-

   10. DMDominic McGregor1:00:13

       It's a stream, yeah, you do. You do have this-

   11. CWChris Williamson1:00:15

       That absolute extremist approach to things-

   12. DMDominic McGregor1:00:17

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:00:18

       ... is a, is characteristic.

   14. DMDominic McGregor1:00:19

       It is, yeah, and it is, and it is the reason why, again, going back to I don't think I can go back to alcohol.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:00:23

       Mm.

   16. DMDominic McGregor1:00:24

       Because I, I'm extreme.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:00:26

       Yeah.

   18. DMDominic McGregor1:00:26

       I will, like, that's why I'm so fortunate that I could just give up.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:00:30

       Yeah.

   20. DMDominic McGregor1:00:30

       Like, I am so fortunate. Like, my body says, I said to myself, "All right, you're not gonna drink anymore," and it was done.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:00:36

       Yeah.

   22. DMDominic McGregor1:00:36

       I- i- i- you know, in, you know, the fine print there was a bit more, but-

   23. CWChris Williamson1:00:40

       Yeah.

   24. DMDominic McGregor1:00:40

       ... it was a case of, "All right, I'm gonna challenge myself now. I'm gonna do it."

   25. CWChris Williamson1:00:43

       Mm-hmm. I spoke, uh, to Mike Kaju about this and I said that, um, one of the things that I think about people who hit rock bottom or some degree close to rock bottom, i.e. they have a sufficiently traumatic experience that springboards them back out of it-

   26. DMDominic McGregor1:00:58

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:00:58

       ... is that you are given a-... a degree of motivation due to the pain that you've gone through that does enable you to move forward. What I think is particularly malicious and nefarious and subversive is for people who are maybe a, a bottle of wine every couple of nights-

   28. DMDominic McGregor1:01:18

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:01:18

       ... during the week, and maybe a bottle one night on a weekend kind of person, because that is the silent killer-

   30. DMDominic McGregor1:01:26

       Yep.

Episode duration: 1:07:51