Modern WisdomWhat Do BDSM & Meditation Have In Common? | Professor Paul Bloom | Modern Wisdom Podcast 120
CHAPTERS
Why “us vs. them” thinking comes naturally
Bloom opens by arguing that dividing the world into in-groups and out-groups is a deep, default human tendency. He illustrates how even arbitrary group assignments can trigger favoritism and hostility, setting the stage for later discussions about empathy, bias, and morality.
Paul Bloom’s research focus: pleasure, morality, and the self
Chris introduces Bloom and asks him to define his work. Bloom describes his wide-ranging interests in human nature, including pleasure, moral judgment, concepts of self, religion, and how we relate to non-humans and technology.
Asking ‘obvious’ questions: what morality is really made of
Bloom explains why scholars ask questions that seem self-evident to most people. Using moral examples (like witnessing child abuse), he highlights the importance of unpacking what exactly motivates our outrage and action.
Defining empathy vs. compassion (and why the word causes confusion)
Bloom distinguishes empathy-as-kindness from empathy-as-feeling-what-others-feel. His critique targets emotional mirroring/absorption, which he argues can impair helping and distort moral reasoning.
Why the best helpers often have lower emotional empathy
Bloom observes that frontline helpers (ER staff, therapists, first responders) tend not to emotionally “catch” others’ distress. They can remain calm in intense situations, enabling sustained care without burnout.
Empathy’s moral problem: bias toward the near, familiar, and similar
Bloom argues empathy is structurally biased: it flows most easily to people like us, nearby, or vivid to us. Compassion paired with rationality can extend care more fairly across distance and difference.
When empathy helps: bonding, shared emotions, and some social situations
Bloom softens a strict anti-empathy stance by noting empathy can be valuable in relationships and shared experiences. He contrasts empathy’s usefulness for connection with its unreliability as a guide for large-scale moral decisions.
Stories, villains, and the empathy trap in fiction
They explore empathy’s role in storytelling: it immerses us and makes narratives powerful. But it can also make us root for immoral characters, revealing how perspective-taking can warp judgment.
Empathy vs fairness: why vivid stories can corrupt just decisions
Bloom describes experiments showing that perspective-taking can override fairness rules. A single identifiable victim’s story can dominate attention and resources, sidelining equally deserving others.
Evolutionary roots: compassion makes sense; empathy is less clear
Bloom explains evolutionary accounts for caring—kin selection and reciprocal altruism—while noting empathy’s origins are less understood. He discusses a theory linking empathy to parenting and related hormonal systems.
Brain and hormone evidence: empathy and compassion can diverge
Bloom cites work suggesting empathy and compassion rely on different neural profiles and hormonal influences. He notes counterintuitive findings where increasing empathy can increase racism by strengthening in-group attachment.
Natural instincts aren’t moral guides: transcending tribalism and revenge
They discuss the danger of confusing “natural” with “good,” especially regarding racism and tribal psychology. Bloom argues progress often comes from using intelligence and institutions to restrain harmful impulses.
A better world through norms: consent, anti-bullying, and moral progress
Bloom references Pinker-style optimism: despite many failures, some moral conditions have improved. They discuss evolving norms around bullying, harassment, and consent as examples of societies working through first-principles conflicts.
Signaling, social media, and why nuance thrives in podcasts
The conversation turns to signaling and identity performance online, and how social media pressures flatten people into caricatures. They argue long-form podcasts create safer conditions for nuance, iteration, and context.
New book: why we seek pain—and the BDSM/meditation connection
Bloom previews The Pleasures of Suffering: why people enjoy spicy food, saunas, horror, extreme exercise, and BDSM, and how suffering relates to meaning. He links BDSM to an escape from self-conscious rumination—sometimes achieving what meditation aims for via intense sensation and focus.
