What I Would Tell My 18 Year Old Self | Modern Wisdom Podcast 131

Chris Williamson 0:00 Seth, what were you 10 years ago?

Yusef 0:02 Religious. Spent a lot of time in the mosque, was celibate, didn't drink.

Chris Williamson 0:05 Would you tell 19-year-old Johnny to, um, not dye his hair? This is the question that the internet has tuned in to hear.

Jonny 0:12 Buy Bitcoin, buy Facebook, buy Netflix-

Yusef 0:15 Ugh.

Jonny 0:15 Buy Amazon. And don't bother with uni.

Chris Williamson 0:17 You need to stop drinking and focus on personal development. You need to focus on yourself first and not on other people. You don't know as much as you think you do. Stop getting into relationships with girls that are bad for you. No, I really mean it, stop getting into relationships with girls that are bad for you.

Jonny 0:30 You think you know it all, don't you, when you're 19? You think you've got it figured out. You haven't got a (censored) clue-

Chris Williamson 0:35 (laughs)

Jonny 0:35 ... until you're, like, at least 28. And I would say probably 39-year-old me-

Chris Williamson 0:40 Exactly.

Jonny 0:40 ... would be saying the same thing.

Chris Williamson 0:42 I can tell you the equivalent of, "Mate, you're going to get hit by a car in 10 years time," and you won't believe it until you get hit by the car.

Jonny 0:48 Wherever you are giving people the most advice is probably where you need the advice the most. All this stuff that we've just said is all advice that we all need right now.

Chris Williamson 1:01 Podcast time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.

Jonny 1:04 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:04 I'm joined by Johnny and Yousaf from propanefitness.com.

Jonny 1:07 Johnny and Yousaf.

Chris Williamson 1:08 Yousaf from Johnny.

Yusef 1:10 And Johnny.

Chris Williamson 1:10 And Johnny from Yousaf.

Jonny 1:12 From Yousaf.

Chris Williamson 1:12 Uh, Yousaf's got rid of mustache. He's back now with a beard.

Yusef 1:15 (sighs)

Chris Williamson 1:16 It's better, though.

Yusef 1:16 Thank goodness.

Chris Williamson 1:16 It is better.

Yusef 1:17 So much better.

Chris Williamson 1:17 Less pedo-y. What?

Jonny 1:19 Just you didn't mention that in the last one.

Chris Williamson 1:21 Doesn't matter.

Yusef 1:22 Ah, yeah, we'll have to play the, the podcast game-

Jonny 1:24 (humming)

Yusef 1:25 ... of time.

Chris Williamson 1:25 Yeah. Anyway.

Jonny 1:26 (humming)

Chris Williamson 1:27 Today we are talking about advice that we would give ourselves 10 years ago. Pretty good opportunity for us to just unload all of the shit that we've learned over the last 10 years. But we're going to try and keep it to within an hour, so hopefully be nice and condensed. Maybe you can take some wisdom away that we've gleaned, hard-earned wisdom over the last few years through blood and sweat and tears and feces.

Jonny 1:51 "Our loss is your gain."

Chris Williamson 1:53 That's a really good tagline for a product.

Yusef 1:55 Hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:56 Of some kind.

Jonny 1:57 Like a hair loss product or something?

Chris Williamson 1:59 (laughs)

Yusef 1:59 (laughs)

Jonny 2:00 No, that'd be, "Your loss is our gain."

Yusef 2:02 Well, yeah, which is a bit insidious.

Jonny 2:04 'Cause if you lose your hair, then-

Chris Williamson 2:05 I'll be the same.

Jonny 2:06 ... we're a profitable business. Actually, no, because in that instance, we're getting too much into it.

Chris Williamson 2:10 Anyway.

Yusef 2:11 (laughs)

Jonny 2:11 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 2:11 So, let's, let's do some framing. Johnny, what sort of a person were you? How old were you and what sort of a person were you 10 years ago?

Jonny 2:18 I was ... maths time. I was 19.

Chris Williamson 2:21 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 2:22 Um ...

Yusef 2:23 Very blond.

Jonny 2:24 Yeah, dyed my hair blond at the time.

Chris Williamson 2:26 Was it highlights or was it fully dyed?

Jonny 2:28 Full head-o, head-o, head-o blond.

Yusef 2:29 I think it's the only Facebook status I remember you posting as just as, like, a, a status. It was quoting your dad.

Jonny 2:36 Oh yeah. He said that, uh, I mean ...

Chris Williamson 2:40 (laughs)

Jonny 2:40 I'm not gonna do it.

Chris Williamson 2:41 Say it. (laughs)

Jonny 2:41 No, no, because ... No.

Yusef 2:43 You'll have to start the podcast again if-

Jonny 2:44 Oh. Yeah, okay.

Yusef 2:45 (laughs) But it was, it was a derogatory-

Jonny 2:47 About my hair.

Yusef 2:47 ... remark made about Johnny's hair.

Jonny 2:49 I was probably quite ... So I think the thing that I would tell 19-year-old Johnny and probably 20-year-old, 21-year-old, 22, probably up to, like-

Chris Williamson 2:58 Are we getting into it already?

Jonny 2:59 ... 27. But it's just, because this is the theme, like, you think you know it all, don't you, when you're 19? You think you've got it figured out. You're like, "Yeah, I've been through my teens now. I know the crack, I know the score, I know the scene." You haven't got a fucking clue-

Chris Williamson 3:14 (laughs)

Jonny 3:14 ... until you're, like, at least 28, 27. And I would say probably 39-year-old me-

Chris Williamson 3:22 Is gonna think exactly the same.

Jonny 3:22 ... would be saying the same thing. And that probably, like, yeah, I just think your entire 20s are just this one big realization that nothing's unbelievable if you don't know what you're doing.

Chris Williamson 3:34 Don't know what you're doing. You're just fumbling around in a dark room.

Jonny 3:36 Yeah, picking things up.

Chris Williamson 3:37 Trying, trying to find the light switch.

Jonny 3:38 Looking, like, "Uh, what's that? Uh, can't use that. What's this?"

Yusef 3:42 (laughs)

Jonny 3:42 "Can't use that." "Oh, that's out of date." Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 3:44 (laughs)

Jonny 3:44 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 3:44 Fucking shit. Would you ... Okay, so let's take it from the top. Would you tell 19-year-old Johnny to, um, not dye his hair?

Jonny 3:54 This is a-

Chris Williamson 3:54 That's a question, this is the question that the internet has tuned in to hear.

Jonny 3:59 Hmm. That's why everyone's here.

Chris Williamson 4:00 Yes.

Jonny 4:01 All these people here.

Chris Williamson 4:02 Thousands of people.

Jonny 4:04 (laughs) That's why they're in today.

Chris Williamson 4:05 Listening in. (laughs)

Jonny 4:06 Um, I think, I think you have to do things to learn why. So, like, I'd have told myself not to, and I wouldn't have listened to me. Maybe I would listen to me, I don't know.

Yusef 4:20 You also don't want to be one of those people who, at the age of 40, never dyed their hair when they were 18.

Chris Williamson 4:25 Midlife crisis.

Yusef 4:26 And it's like, oh.

Jonny 4:26 So what-

Chris Williamson 4:27 Worst guy.

Jonny 4:27 What happened was I finished school. I went on a holiday, like, the, the holiday a lot of people go on when they finish school. Um, broke up with the girlfriend I was with at the time. I was just about to go to uni. I had all this, like, really long summer ahead of me. And I was like, "You know what? Bollocks, I'm gonna dye my hair."

Chris Williamson 4:45 I'm gonna become the guy that has blond hair.

Jonny 4:46 Yeah, and I was like, "I'm just gonna become this, like, different person." And I think going into uni, it did a lot for my confidence.

Chris Williamson 4:52 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 4:52 And I can't place why. But at the time, like, now it would be really weird, like, I think no one does that, but at the time, loads of people were. Um, so yeah, I probably would do it again.

Chris Williamson 5:01 Cool. So what else? What else were you? What was, what, what was your, um, identity sort of wrapped around?

Jonny 5:06 I was about, I was about 77 kilos.

Chris Williamson 5:09 Okay.

Jonny 5:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 5:10 That's, that's a lot of weight gain in 10 years, man.

Jonny 5:13 So I, I'd gone from (laughs) , yeah, I'd gone from, um-

Chris Williamson 5:14 That's two kilos a year over 10 years.

Jonny 5:16 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 5:19 Fuck me. (laughs)

Jonny 5:19 Yeah. Is that right actually? Yeah, yeah, probably around 80 kilos. Is that right? Yeah.

Yusef 5:26 I remember end of school you went up to, was it ... You was in stone at the time, so I think you kissed 100 post-holiday.

Jonny 5:36 No, no.

Yusef 5:37 And then dropped down.

Jonny 5:37 That-

Yusef 5:38 And then ...

Jonny 5:38 Y- Almost right, but I'd been at uni for a bit.

Yusef 5:40 Oh, okay.

Chris Williamson 5:41 Anyway.

Jonny 5:42 So, yeah, we're get (laughs) in the weeds. Um, so yeah, just come out of, like, doing a lot of running. So I did a lot of running-

Chris Williamson 5:51 Okay.

Jonny 5:51 ... when I was that age.

Chris Williamson 5:52 Legs.

Jonny 5:53 Legs.

Chris Williamson 5:54 Lovely.

Jonny 5:54 I was good at running actually. Um, probably thought I was gonna follow a traditional-... past, so Propane didn't exist then.

Yusef 6:05 2008-

Jonny 6:06 Yeah.

Yusef 6:06 ... was the-

Jonny 6:07 Ah, so it did. The, the, the outline of it existed. But I thought it was like, "There's no way I'll ever do that," as a, more than a, more than a joke. Um, I was studying economics, probably pretty boring. Bursting to get to uni and just blow it all up. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 6:25 Let loose.

Jonny 6:26 Just give the tubes a good-

Yusef 6:28 (laughs)

Jonny 6:28 ... just give them a good-

Chris Williamson 6:30 Give the pipes a cleaning?

Jonny 6:31 ... cleaning, yeah.

Yusef 6:31 Just all pipes.

Chris Williamson 6:32 Okay.

Jonny 6:32 Yeah, just give it, have a good-

Chris Williamson 6:34 Have a good draw.

Jonny 6:35 Really get in it, and-

Chris Williamson 6:36 All right, so that's where you were 10 years ago.

Jonny 6:37 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:38 Seth, what were you 10 years ago?

Jonny 6:40 So-

Yusef 6:40 I'm looking forward to this. (laughs) Yeah, there's a lot of differences there, I think. (laughs)

Jonny 6:44 (laughs)

Yusef 6:45 Um, so I, I think just going back one year more, so-

Jonny 6:49 Yep.

Yusef 6:50 ... just before 18th birthday was 59 kilos. Uh-

Jonny 6:55 What do you weigh now?

Yusef 6:56 Went up, so over three months, I gained 30 kilos.

Chris Williamson 6:59 (laughs)

Yusef 7:01 Went up to 90, thinking it was all muscle.

Jonny 7:03 Over three months?

Yusef 7:05 It was th- three, uh, probably three to six months. I, it was when I was doing like pie-

Jonny 7:09 DOMA.

Yusef 7:09 Pint of double cream before bed, shots of olive oil throughout the day. Um, Mutant Mass, had consumed eight kilos of that-

Jonny 7:16 Rich Piana.

Yusef 7:17 ... which is a, a 1,000 calorie drink that you have ... well, it's a 2,000 calorie drink that you have twice a day. Um, just like plowed the food. (clears throat) Otherwise, was very religious. Um-

Chris Williamson 7:33 How did that manifest?

Yusef 7:34 Spent a lot of time in the mosque, was celibate, didn't drink. Um, all of the kind of-

Jonny 7:40 I, I have a memory of Youssef from this period of time, one of the only memories I have. We were on an art trip. It would've been like 18, 17.

Yusef 7:47 Oh, Ramadan.

Jonny 7:48 Yeah.

Yusef 7:48 Yeah.

Jonny 7:48 And I was walking-

Chris Williamson 7:49 Ramadan. (laughs)

Jonny 7:50 We were in, uh, Amble, Ambleside on an art trip. I went for a piss at like four in the morning. And there was, there was a light on, someone in a room. Put, put my head in, Youssef sat by himself eating a green pepper like an apple.

Yusef 8:06 So this is the difference between, like the, the flipping between extremes of, at the time, probably weighed, uh, weighed under 60 kilos. Um-

Jonny 8:14 Shreddy though.

Yusef 8:15 ... shreddy but-

Jonny 8:15 Shreddy breck.

Yusef 8:16 ... thinking that a green pepper is the thing to eat when you've got a window of time to-

Jonny 8:21 (laughs)

Yusef 8:22 ... to eat in Ramadan and you're supposed, trying to retain your, your body weight.

Jonny 8:25 And you're having super low volume, super high volume, super low calorie food.

Yusef 8:28 Like, couldn't have found a vegetable with lower calories really, so and then s-

Chris Williamson 8:32 (laughs)

Jonny 8:32 It's mostly air, isn't it?

Yusef 8:33 Mostly air.

Jonny 8:33 You open it up and it's just a hole inside of it.

Yusef 8:35 Yeah, true, true. And then switched from that to the other extreme. So yeah, very quiet, reli- uh, religious, um, not, didn't really know why I was at uni or what I was doing. Like, went in to do maths just because I thought, "Oh, I like maths and it's-"

Jonny 8:51 (laughs)

Yusef 8:51 "... um," and then ended up kind of on the wrong track and not ... So there are some lessons to be learned from that. But the, I was also very reckless with my body (clears throat) in that obviously gaining mad amounts of weight, but also just training on and through pain quite a lot. So there's a few training mistakes to get into as well, but I'm sure we'll, we'll get into that in a second, so.

Jonny 9:17 Mm-hmm. Did you do, you were doing squat, squatting three times a week or something?

Yusef 9:20 For a while, yeah. I mean, d-

Jonny 9:22 Breathing squads.

Yusef 9:22 We, yeah, breathing squads. We, I mean, we rotated through all kinds of, uh-

Jonny 9:26 Bloodiness, you know?

Yusef 9:27 ... like every, every stupid diet and training program.

Chris Williamson 9:29 It seems like sort of, so hearing some of the common themes between both of your guys' things, what you've brought come back which is fitness.

Jonny 9:35 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 9:35 So in one form or another, fitness was still a really big bit of your life when you-

Jonny 9:39 Well-

Chris Williamson 9:39 ... 10 years ago or sort of late teens.

Yusef 9:41 We were, we were pre-menopausal, so it was-

Jonny 9:43 I think probably both of us, pre-fitness were, um, probably, I don't, well I don't, maybe not for you. I was, I was fat, lacking in confidence, like 16, 17-year-old me. Like, no female attention, no like, didn't really think very much of myself.

Chris Williamson 9:59 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 10:00 And then fitness was my like access into gaining self-belief, I think.

Chris Williamson 10:05 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 10:06 Was that the same for you, or less so?

Yusef 10:09 It was something that I just kind of ... I, I, yeah, I've, I don't think I've got as, um, as much of like a, a kind of-

Jonny 10:17 Rocky story.

Yusef 10:18 ... story, yeah, rocky kind of story for that. But, um, yeah, there was the, it was the, it's definitely the common thread that like went between extremes of just trying mental stuff and then (laughs) ten, twenty years later-

Chris Williamson 10:33 Which, which I mean, you know, 10 years later going, joining a cult, um, f- forced submersion for two hours a day, getting banned from Jesmond Pool.

Jonny 10:41 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 10:42 Uh, yeah. Um-

Chris Williamson 10:44 E- but reminders to set yourself to just eat a big bowl of spinach. Like, nothing's changed.

Yusef 10:48 The ... It's a-

Jonny 10:50 (laughs)

Yusef 10:50 That, that is a, that is good for a few years ago and now it's, now it's very much just on maintenance mode. Like it's, I think having shaken all that stuff out, cleared out the pipes.

Chris Williamson 10:59 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 10:59 It's, it's just on background.

Chris Williamson 11:01 The mechanism has been-

Jonny 11:02 It, it's how we all met though, isn't it, fitness, in one way or another.

Yusef 11:04 (coughs) That's true.

Jonny 11:05 So we met 'cause of, in the school gym. We met Chris because of Propane Fitness. We met Ben because of Harrison.

Yusef 11:13 Yeah, so all, all four of us-

Chris Williamson 11:14 Lifton.

Jonny 11:15 Yeah, Lifton.

Yusef 11:15 All four of us.

Jonny 11:15 Comes back to Babil. Well, I mean, where were you 10 years ago, Chris?

Chris Williamson 11:20 So I would've been 21. So-

Jonny 11:21 So you were in the central reservation in Spain. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 11:24 Central re- no, that was '25.

Jonny 11:26 Right.

Chris Williamson 11:26 It was a little while before I went on TV.

Jonny 11:27 So you'd have been finishing uni?

Chris Williamson 11:29 No, so I did a placement year, um-

Jonny 11:31 Okay.

Chris Williamson 11:31 ... and then also did a master's, so I was at uni five years.

Jonny 11:36 Right. So you were on-

Chris Williamson 11:37 So I only left uni at 23.

Jonny 11:39 We meet, we'd have met you-

Chris Williamson 11:41 25, the year it's c- so one year, no sorry, '24. Um-

Jonny 11:45 Right.

Chris Williamson 11:45 So 21 I would've been still running Carnage, which is a big bar crawl in Newcastle.

Jonny 11:51 You are still saved in my phone as Chris Carnage.

Chris Williamson 11:52 Chris Carnage Williamson.

Yusef 11:54 (laughs)

Jonny 11:54 Wow.

Chris Williamson 11:54 I can tell the people that know me from that era because they just call me Carnage, and it's the most bizarre thing to hear someone say that now. The same as people that don't know that I used to have a massive afro, the same as people that don't know that I was on Take Me Out or Love Island. Like, you have these epochs of your life-

Jonny 12:10 Yeah, yeah, phases.

Chris Williamson 12:11 ... and people are right in it. And especially if you do kind of what we've done and you're in the world of online-... marketing, or-

Jonny 12:18 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 12:18 ... you know, like content creation or whatever. There's, there are people that inevitably come back. There'll be people that you will have listened to 10 years ago that you don't listen to now.

Jonny 12:26 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 12:26 You know, like, the guys from like, um, T Nation or whatever.

Jonny 12:29 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 12:29 Like, you'll be able to quote their stuff inside out.

Yusef 12:31 So is AFRO like a line in the sand for you? That like-

Chris Williamson 12:33 Y-

Yusef 12:33 ... is that a time that, that-

Chris Williamson 12:35 I think so, yeah.

Yusef 12:36 Have you, have you had ... I don't know if you've had anyone who you haven't seen since pre-AFRO, and then they approach you and speak to you as if f- like, as the Chris that they knew, and it's, and it's almost like a-

Jonny 12:48 As AFRO Carnage.

Chris Williamson 12:50 Yeah, maybe a little bit.

Yusef 12:51 Yeah, sort of. Like there- there's this, there's a phenomenon where like people put you in a role that they remember you in.

Jonny 12:56 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 12:56 Yeah.

Yusef 12:56 And-

Chris Williamson 12:57 Well, until they update the programming, why should they consider anything?

Yusef 12:59 Well, yeah. Of course.

Chris Williamson 12:59 They've got to extrapolate forward, you know what I mean? Unless, unless you come and you've now got like long hair and dreads, and you're covered in tattoos and you're wearing elephant pants. Like, why would they presume that anything's changed here?

Jonny 13:09 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 13:11 So, um, so yeah, 21 I would've been fully drinking the club promoter Kool-Aid. Um, I would've just completed ... So right now, considering that we're in December, um, I would've just been kicked out of Scotland by Scottish Parliament, um, for, uh, having our personal licenses threatened for both me and Darren, uh, through our BBC Radio Parliament Scotland, uh, because they didn't want Carnage doing multi-site, uh, bar crawl events in their cities.

Jonny 13:35 (clears throat)

Chris Williamson 13:35 Uh, so we ran out. Uh, I would have also just been hit head-on at 60 miles an hour by a snowplow on the A1 going up to Scotland, um, which-

Yusef 13:44 Hit by a snowplow. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 13:44 Hit by a snowplow at 60 miles an hour, so 120 mile an hour impact. Um, that was fun.

Jonny 13:50 (clears throat)

Yusef 13:50 (laughs)

Jonny 13:51 It's amazing that you were all right.

Chris Williamson 13:53 Yeah, well, it only clipped us, but the damage was intense. Every airbag deployed and all the rest of it. Um, so anyway, that was, that was fun. But this was when I was-

Jonny 14:00 Shout, "Intermate." (laughs)

Yusef 14:03 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 14:03 (laughs) Uh, I was hosting in Tuk Tuk Palace with my top off, um, three nights a week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Uh-

Yusef 14:10 Glitter, stencil.

Chris Williamson 14:10 Yeah, yeah, sp- stenciled spray paint.

Jonny 14:13 This is where I put you in like the Scott Timland and sort of Mateswood, all that.

Chris Williamson 14:17 Gary Beadle.

Jonny 14:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 14:18 S- uh, Scott Disneyland.

Jonny 14:20 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 14:21 All that. Joss Mooney.

Jonny 14:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 14:22 Like that, that whole crew. That was it. So that was, I think, probably, um, the height of, or close to the height of like hyper-partying for me. Um, but yeah, again, with that, like I'd started to attach a lot of my sense of self-worth to my success within business, to my notoriety, um, socially around town. I think going through school, um, I'd been, mm, less central, uh, socially with like big groups of people and stuff. And then you get to uni and it's the ultimate chance to kind of reinvent yourself-

Jonny 14:56 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 14:56 ... and become someone and have a m- m- tighter social circle. (inhales deeply) And, um, yeah, I, I just had sort of found my feet with that. And then it becomes like this self-perpetuating cycle of like party more, l- know more people, become more popular. Party more, b- know more people, become more pop- da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And then you can always justify it because it's like, "Well, it's my job."

Jonny 15:19 (laughs)

Yusef 15:20 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 15:20 Like, my job is to know people.

Jonny 15:21 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 15:21 The more people that know me, the more come to my events, the more money we make. Um, so yeah, that would've been that, and then rolling it forward for me, there was quite an important period between 21 and 24, which was when I started to properly become a businessman with regards to events, run, started running weekly Saturdays. And anyway, I think a lot of my time, again, there was fitness.

Jonny 15:39 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 15:39 Was quite bothered about, um, my training. Uh, was about to go, so in six months time I would've been going to go and do a season in Ibiza. I fell in love with a girl out in Ibiza and went and had this like crazy holiday romance thing out there, which was like a really interesting, like beautiful experience actually. Like even 10 years on, still like a lovely, a lovely thing to look back on. Um, but yeah, I think that was, that's kind of probably a pretty good landscape to do that. So to give it a headline, right? We can get into some nuance and stuff in

Chris Williamson 16:10 a second, but you've got 30 seconds. You can phone yourself 10 years ago from now and you've got 30 seconds-

Yusef 16:16 (laughs) Oh, like that?

Chris Williamson 16:17 ... to speak to them and I'm gonna time it on here. Um, so you can-

Jonny 16:21 Oh.

Chris Williamson 16:22 ... have, you can have a minute to prep. Um, I actually got asked this, um ... Oh no, it was in, it's in the Six Minute Diary. It's in the Six Minute Diary and it's like, "You've got 30 seconds." So I just wrote it out. Um, so I think I can probably afford to go first if you want. Okay. Right.

Jonny 16:39 Do you want me to time you?

Chris Williamson 16:40 It's, I can watch it on here. I can see it.

Jonny 16:42 All right.

Chris Williamson 16:42 Okay, so ring-ring, ring-ring.

Jonny 16:46 Hello?

Chris Williamson 16:47 Hi, mate. It's Chris. Don't ask.

Jonny 16:48 (laughs)

Yusef 16:48 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 16:48 Right. Um, you need to stop drinking and focus on personal development. You need to learn to, um, eh, focus on yourself first and not on other people. Confidence comes from within. You don't know as much as you think you do. Stop getting into relationships with girls that are bad for you. No, I really mean it. Stop getting into relationships with girls that are bad for you. Um, you need to spend time around other people. You need to travel more, and you need to let go of the feeling that you are not good enough. (fist slaps) There you go.

Jonny 17:17 Nice.

Chris Williamson 17:17 That's 20 seconds.

Jonny 17:19 Oh, but I- I ... Mm.

Chris Williamson 17:22 Cut the hair.

Jonny 17:22 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:23 Cut that hair.

Yusef 17:24 If, if you got that phone call, you'd just be like ... (fist slaps)

Jonny 17:28 Be like Kelly Serhat in the plane.

Yusef 17:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:30 So the big thing, the big things for me or like the, the big things to take out of that headline were, um, I kept on getting in and out of relationships with girls. And the longer term reason for that was, because I hadn't had a lot of relationships when I was younger, I, I had a difficulty saying, "No, this isn't right." Because I, deep down, I don't think I felt like I was worthy. So it's like, who am I to say to this girl that like I'm not suppos- like I shouldn't hurt her? And I think that that stemmed from me being like, "Well, I'm not supposed to have relationships. That wasn't what I've grown up with."

Jonny 18:00 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 18:00 "This is all new to me. This is a blessing that I should be like really happy for," or whatever, whatever. Um, and then other things were I was focusing very much so on what other people thought of me. I was bothered about like how I was regarded by everybody else as opposed to indulging in my own...... like, genuinely in my own interests, which is what I do now with this podcast. It's like, I get to speak to whoever I want and if people like it, great, and if they don't, then fantastic also.

Yusef 18:26 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 18:27 Like, I'm just bothered about what I do. Pursuing all the passions that I do now, again, is ex- mostly the same. I'm, like, beholden to very few people and I, I don't care. Um, so that was, that was headlines for me. So, who, who wants to go up next? Johnny, Yusuf?

Jonny 18:41 Yeah, I'll go.

Chris Williamson 18:42 Okay, right. Ring-ring, ring-ring.

Yusef 18:45 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 18:47 Answer.

Jonny 18:49 Hi, uh, it's me.

Chris Williamson 18:52 (laughs)

Jonny 18:52 Um, um ...

Yusef 18:56 (laughs)

Jonny 18:56 (laughs) Hold on. I need, I need to stop.

Chris Williamson 18:58 Right.

Jonny 18:58 'Cause I had, I had it so clearly in my head a minute ago.

Chris Williamson 19:00 It's gone?

Jonny 19:01 And it's gone.

Chris Williamson 19:01 All right.

Yusef 19:02 It's gone.

Jonny 19:03 It's gone.

Chris Williamson 19:03 It's gone. Okay.

Jonny 19:04 Well.

Chris Williamson 19:05 I mean, this is, there're, there's, there's no more high-pressure phone call that you've ever got to make, isn't it? (laughing)

Yusef 19:09 If you got a call from your future self and it was like, "Uh-"

Jonny 19:13 Yeah, have you heard the, have you heard the thing, is it in, is it in Chimp Paradox or something? Where it's like, how to define your life values? And it's like, you've got one ... Imagine you're on your death bed and your grandkid comes up to you and says, "Grandad, what's a, what's a, what's, what's a single sentence of advice you'd give me?" Fuck, and you've got a minute.

Chris Williamson 19:31 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 19:31 That's how to define, in your life, what's most important.

Chris Williamson 19:34 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 19:35 But with that in mind-

Chris Williamson 19:37 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 19:37 ... here comes Yusuf.

Chris Williamson 19:40 Ring-ring.

Jonny 19:40 Hello. Hello, Yusuf speaking.

Chris Williamson 19:41 Ring-ring.

Yusef 19:43 Hello, Yusuf speaking. That is correct.

Jonny 19:47 (laughs)

Yusef 19:47 So ...

Jonny 19:49 (laughs)

Yusef 19:49 Listen to me very carefully. Ditch religion. Ditch the girlfriend. Progressively overload. Pick a single program, do it for the next 10 years, don't deviate. Only gain maximum one kilogram per month. (laughs) Um, take a year, think about what you wanna do. And ... I had another one.

Chris Williamson 20:17 Spend time with Dad.

Yusef 20:18 Yeah. That was, that was this.

Chris Williamson 20:21 (laughs)

Yusef 20:21 Sorry, I didn't know. Spend time with your parents, meditate, read, do it properly.

Chris Williamson 20:28 Isn't it interesting that, like, it's such simple shit and it's so boring? Like, if I'd got that call from me, "Fucking hell, all right, mate!"

Yusef 20:37 Oh, yeah. Th- well, I definitely wouldn't have wanted to hear this, "Don't slip a disc."

Chris Williamson 20:41 (laughs)

Yusef 20:41 'Cause I, I would've been, "Oh, no, I wanna get, like, a deadlift PB even if it hurts." Like-

Chris Williamson 20:46 No, that's for the rest of your life. That slipped disc is there-

Yusef 20:49 Do not slip a disc.

Chris Williamson 20:50 No, do not ring me. Um, yeah, it's like, if I'd got that phone call 10 years ago from fucking boring-ass 31-year-old me.

Yusef 20:58 Come on, mate.

Chris Williamson 20:59 So, you've been sober how long?

Yusef 21:00 Is that what you wanted?

Chris Williamson 21:01 Right, how many birds have you banged in that time?

Yusef 21:02 Yeah, it's-

Chris Williamson 21:03 Like ... And you got rid of the hair?

Yusef 21:06 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:07 Right, well, you must still at least be lifting. CrossFit? What? What's that?

Yusef 21:11 Oh, you didn't even exist.

Chris Williamson 21:12 I know. Um, right, Jonathan.

Jonny 21:15 All right. I've made, I made a list. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:17 Are you checking it twice?

Jonny 21:21 (laughs)

Yusef 21:25 (Laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:25 (laughs)

Jonny 21:25 Naughty or-

Chris Williamson 21:26 Making a list.

Jonny 21:27 ... naughty or nice.

Chris Williamson 21:28 Checking it twice. Right.

Jonny 21:29 Right.

Chris Williamson 21:30 Ring-ring. Ring-ring.

Jonny 21:32 Hello. Right. One, do five-three-one and track calories from today. Don't deviate from that until you start progressing on the key lifts. Start, (laughs) start meditating from now. Uh, Google it, figure out basic stuff, just begin, do something, do 10 minutes. Um, go to things, go to events, go to things with friends even if you think, "Oh, that's a bad idea, that's a waste of time." You'll remember the experiences more than the things that you accumulate or buy. Um, s- take propane more seriously sooner. Stop pissing around with it. Learn marketing and sales, trading and coding. Hire a coach sooner, ask for help sooner.

Yusef 22:10 That's far better.

Chris Williamson 22:11 Fuck, you've nailed it.

Yusef 22:11 That's, yeah.

Jonny 22:11 But I wrote it down.

Chris Williamson 22:12 Yeah, that's true.

Yusef 22:13 That's true.

Chris Williamson 22:13 We've progressively ... Mine was really messy, yours was kind of messy, and yours was fucking great.

Yusef 22:18 I was thinking too much about the fitness 'cause I've done a podcast already called What Would You Say to Your 18 Year Old Self? And it was three bits of advice-

Chris Williamson 22:24 Just on fitness.

Yusef 22:25 ... fitness-wise, which is the do five-three-one for 10 years, don't deviate, uh, get as lean as possible once, and then just gain like 500 grams back one kilo-

Chris Williamson 22:32 Ugh, slowly re-diets back.

Yusef 22:34 (laughs) Can I ring him back?

Chris Williamson 22:35 Right, can I ring him back? (laughs)

Jonny 22:38 Ring, ring, ring, ring!

Yusef 22:38 And stay injury-free. So-

Chris Williamson 22:40 Fuck, no.

Yusef 22:40 But then, but then the other ones threw me off, and then I was just like, "Ugh." So, but yeah, like-

Jonny 22:43 But there's so much to get in.

Chris Williamson 22:45 Yeah.

Yusef 22:45 Take, take propane seriously, learn to code, learn to trade. Like, the, those are-

Chris Williamson 22:49 Fuck.

Yusef 22:49 Yeah.

Jonny 22:49 Start meditating.

Chris Williamson 22:50 Yeah.

Jonny 22:50 Hire a coach.

Yusef 22:51 I think-

Chris Williamson 22:52 Jesus.

Yusef 22:53 Like, if, if you're 18, I'd say go an hour a day. 'Cause you've got so much time when you're 18 but you think you don't.

Chris Williamson 22:58 Yeah. Do what an hour a day?

Yusef 22:59 Meditate an hour a day.

Jonny 23:00 Do you know what else I'd tell myself starting uni?

Chris Williamson 23:03 Just go for it.

Jonny 23:03 Um, do ... So, I would try, I'd write myself a morning routine that's still, like, pretty basic bitch.

Chris Williamson 23:09 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 23:09 Which would just be, like, read two or three pages of something that you find interesting, meditate, and just do two Pomodoros of work. Like, even if you do fuck all else for the rest of the day, just do two Pomodoros.

Chris Williamson 23:20 That and Evernote Premium.

Jonny 23:22 Well, I, it didn't exist at the time.

Chris Williamson 23:23 Fuck. There was, there was an app.

Jonny 23:24 I can remember sitting in the corner of my room at uni, writing out, googling or looking up on, like, the Tesco website, making myself a diet plan, trying to work out macros and calories because MyFitnessPal didn't exist.

Chris Williamson 23:35 Jesus.

Jonny 23:35 I was thinking about this the other day-

Chris Williamson 23:36 Pace of progress from 2009 till 2011.

Jonny 23:38 Pe- people haven't got a fucking clue, and also, like, I feel like that was the golden era and it's boring now.

Chris Williamson 23:44 Yeah.

Yusef 23:44 (laughs)

Jonny 23:44 I remember when I thought creatine, I wasn't sure whether creatine was legal or not.

Yusef 23:48 Oh, yeah.

Jonny 23:49 Like, I rem-

Chris Williamson 23:50 When Jack3D used to have amphetamines in it.

Yusef 23:52 Yeah. (laughs) Well, the s- the two Pomodoros thing as well, like, I'm convinced that I wasted 18 months of total time between-

Jonny 24:01 And then you cram it.

Yusef 24:02 Yeah, between 18 and 23 I think, like-

Jonny 24:05 Right, right, okay.

Chris Williamson 24:06 Just dicking around.

Jonny 24:06 That's more macro.

Yusef 24:07 Yeah, just absolutely-

Jonny 24:07 You don't mean over a year, you mean over several years.

Yusef 24:10 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 24:10 Mm-hmm. Okay, so-

Yusef 24:10 Just total dicking around.

Chris Williamson 24:11 ... we've heard what each of us have said here.

Yusef 24:13 Oh, download Cold Turkey, that was gonna be step one.

Chris Williamson 24:15 Download Cold Turkey! (laughs)

Jonny 24:16 Didn't exist either, this is what I mean. Like ...

Yusef 24:18 So it had to be ...

Jonny 24:18 So, MyNet Diary was your best crack at tracking calories? Didn't exist.

Chris Williamson 24:21 You know what, you know what all of us should've done which would've fixed all of these?

Jonny 24:24 ... buy Bitcoin if we'd all just said-

Chris Williamson 24:27 Oh.

Yusef 24:27 Ah.

Jonny 24:27 ... "Buy Bitcoin."

Chris Williamson 24:28 God, God.

Yusef 24:29 I had a mate who was like, "Mate, I'm thinking of buying this, it's called Bitcoin." And I was like, "Nah, it sounds stupid, like don't-"

Jonny 24:35 Well, okay, so buy Bitcoin, buy Facebook, 'cause it just-

Chris Williamson 24:37 Buy Amazon.

Jonny 24:38 Buy, uh, Netflix.

Yusef 24:40 (groans)

Jonny 24:40 Buy Amazon. And then just-

Chris Williamson 24:42 That's your life.

Jonny 24:43 And then don't bother with human. There's no point.

Yusef 24:44 Because those actually would be better than... 'Cause all the advice we're saying now would a- yes, it would've got you to a better stage, but actually, we wouldn't have had any of the insight that would've generated-

Jonny 24:55 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 24:55 ... the reflection of power.

Chris Williamson 24:56 So, this is the problem. This is one source-

Jonny 24:58 Has to sort out your future financially for you, you know?

Yusef 24:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:00 And then you can double, just work on everything else.

Yusef 25:01 Short oil. (laughs)

Jonny 25:03 (laughs)

Yusef 25:04 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 25:04 (laughs)

Jonny 25:04 I still remember the conversation that we had where-

Yusef 25:07 (sighs)

Jonny 25:07 ... it was after the oil, when oil, like, tanked and we had, like, I don't know, maybe, like, 10 grand or something-

Yusef 25:12 Oil was on a runner.

Jonny 25:13 ... in the business.

Chris Williamson 25:13 (laughs)

Jonny 25:14 It was just on an absolute-

Chris Williamson 25:15 And I was like, "How much would we have made if we just shorted oil with all the money in the business at the time?" And Youssef was like, "It would be infinite."

Jonny 25:24 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 25:24 I was just like, "Ah."

Yusef 25:25 The- the work that would be, it'd be infinite with no down days.

Jonny 25:27 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 25:29 (laughs)

Yusef 25:29 Every single day between, I can't remember the dates, but it was, like, a two-year run of just da- like, tanking oil. Every- so you would've, you would've kept-

Chris Williamson 25:39 And you just let it run.

Yusef 25:40 ... re- re-leveraging and just reentering the trade at 50 times leverage and you would've ju- it's because, like-

Jonny 25:44 But you ended up with a (coughs) an anus like a windsock on-

Yusef 25:48 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 25:48 (laughs)

Jonny 25:48 ... (laughs) as a result of that period of time, didn't you?

Yusef 25:51 It's because, yeah, 'cause I entered far too late.

Jonny 25:54 Windsock's Experienced.

Yusef 25:54 It was the time when, like, I think it was the Saudis or the Kuwaitis that were just dumping oil into the supply.

Jonny 25:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:58 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 25:58 Not caring about the price.

Chris Williamson 26:00 So, that's an important thing. Let's say that you're, let's say you're someone who's, you can be any age and listening to it and thinking, "Oh, there's t- a couple of tiny little nuggets of wisdom in that flood of shit-"

Jonny 26:09 (laughs)

Yusef 26:09 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 26:10 "... that's, that's..."

Yusef 26:11 Really badly...

Chris Williamson 26:12 "... that's just been put out there."

Jonny 26:13 There'll be several people who just download five-three-one and start doing it, though, won't there?

Yusef 26:16 That's-

Jonny 26:16 And they'll be saved then.

Yusef 26:17 That's made me realize how terrible I'd be on a 30-second phone call with myself. You'd be like, "Uh, uh, uh, uh."

Chris Williamson 26:21 Oh, and download 531-

Yusef 26:22 What's that? Like-

Jonny 26:23 You'd plan it though, wouldn't you? You'd plan it.

Yusef 26:24 Yeah.

Jonny 26:24 What you wanna do is give advice that is access to advice, rather than the advice itself.

Chris Williamson 26:30 Ring this person, speak to that person-

Jonny 26:31 Yeah, ex- exactly, yeah.

Chris Williamson 26:32 ... do this person.

Jonny 26:33 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 26:33 Yeah, 'cause then it, you leverage the time.

Jonny 26:34 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 26:35 Um, so some people might be listening and fucking whatever age, there might be some nuggets of wisdom, and we'll get into them in a second. But you've hit on-

Jonny 26:42 Modern wisdom.

Chris Williamson 26:43 Modern wisdom. It's, this is 10 years ago wisdom, this. Uh, you've hit the nail on the head there that without context, without, like, the environment to absorb these understandings, it's fucking nothing.

Jonny 26:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 26:57 Like all of it, and I was gonna do a podcast on this ages ago and I realized that it was a one-sentence podcast, and the question was, um, why do realizations, um, about our lives take so long to sink in? I can tell you the equivalent of, "Mate, you're gonna get hit by a car in 10 years time," and you won't believe it until you get hit by the car.

Jonny 27:17 Yeah.

Yusef 27:17 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 27:18 And we are doing that constantly, riding the crest of now all the time. Like, I know for an absolute fact that if I stopped doing Instagram, stopped doing Twitter, stopped doing Facebook, and doubled down on podcasts and YouTube, my reach in five years time would be bigger than if I did that, and I'd be happier, and I'd be more productive.

Jonny 27:37 (clears throat)

Chris Williamson 27:37 I know, I know it for a fact, but I can't bring myself to do it until the point comes when I have to do it.

Jonny 27:44 I think in five years time, it'll all just be search.

Yusef 27:47 One platform.

Jonny 27:48 Well, just search platforms.

Yusef 27:50 Facebook, WhatsApp-

Jonny 27:50 I think the sh- social stuff will be-

Yusef 27:52 ... Instagram. It'll all be one, won't it? So-

Jonny 27:54 But I just think people are fighting it and moving away. Chris is right, like people want-

Chris Williamson 27:58 Oh.

Jonny 27:58 ... um, search-based content.

Yusef 28:01 To, to be in control of their-

Jonny 28:01 Yeah. It's, it's where you, like, create a real following.

Chris Williamson 28:06 Mm-hmm. So yeah, the-

Jonny 28:08 Start a YouTube channel.

Chris Williamson 28:09 Start fucking-

Jonny 28:10 Tell yourself that 10 years ago.

Chris Williamson 28:12 YouTube in 2010.

Jonny 28:12 Like, really double down on getting good at YouTube.

Yusef 28:14 When there was about three YouTube channels.

Chris Williamson 28:15 Yeah.

Jonny 28:15 Yeah.

Yusef 28:15 Like, peep, people were going viral.

Jonny 28:17 I actually found 531 Facebook ads, like the people who were running Facebook ads in 2007 taking k- ch- candy from a baby at the time.

Yusef 28:24 It's, it, so that, that is such a good point. Like, eh, in fact, anything online, so writing a blog, doing a YouTube channel-

Jonny 28:29 Coding.

Chris Williamson 28:29 Yeah.

Yusef 28:30 Any, any YouTube channel that is, like has 1,000 subscribers and is, like, mildly successful now would've-

Chris Williamson 28:36 100,000 probably 10 years ago.

Yusef 28:36 ... flowed in, yeah.

Jonny 28:37 Back, back then, if you used a decent camera, that was all you'd need to do to differentiate.

Chris Williamson 28:42 So, (clears throat) we can be wistfully nostalgic about the time when we could've and should've and would've-

Jonny 28:49 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:49 ... as much as we want. But I think, um, yeah, without the context, like all of the lessons that we're talking about here kind of don't really matter. So it, and this is one of the criticisms that I get about life hacks, although I think it's slightly different, because those are designed to be piecemeal tools that you add into your life.

Jonny 29:05 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 29:05 They're not lessons that are supposed to be learned.

Jonny 29:07 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 29:07 Um, but let's try and take some of the stuff, we've had this 30, uh, you know, 90 seconds combined time.

Jonny 29:13 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 29:14 What are some of the things that we've tried to look at? We've said, uh, with regards to training, the principle is find a program which forces progressive overload and stick to it and do not f- do not change.

Jonny 29:26 So, uh, it, to, for me, it's encapsulated by, I think it's just Youssef's quote, which is, "The bad news is there's no way to accelerate the process. The good news is there's no way to accelerate the process."

Yusef 29:36 I, ironically, in, in us trying so desperately to accelerate the process-

Jonny 29:40 You knacked it.

Yusef 29:40 We, yeah.

Jonny 29:41 Yeah.

Yusef 29:41 Like, we, and we were vacillating with all kinds of little, um-

Jonny 29:46 'Cause that's it, like-

Yusef 29:47 ... tweaks and attempts at optimizing stuff-

Jonny 29:49 Yeah.

Yusef 29:50 ... to the point where we actually lost sight of the bigger picture.

Chris Williamson 29:53 Can you describe in 30 seconds-

Yusef 29:55 And the same with business as well.

Chris Williamson 29:55 ... what five, what five-three-one is for people who don't know?

Jonny 29:57 (clears throat) So it's non-linear periodization, which just means there is a light week, medium week, heavy week, deload, and it focuses on core lifts, big, big lifts, and it's, it's built in progressive overload that can last a very long time. So if you just go to the gym and just try and lift more weight, you'll hit a roadblock pretty quickly. If you try and hit more reps then more weight, you'll last a little bit longer, but again, hit a roadblock pretty quickly. If you just stick with five-three-one, you start off so light. There's so much longevity built into the way it's programmed, and it's so simple.

Chris Williamson 30:27 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 30:28 You, you also learn, the nice thing about it is, so many people spend all this time in the gym, they don't really know what it's like to, to approach a barbell and be a bit worried about it. Or even-

Chris Williamson 30:39 But that forces you into it.

Jonny 30:39 ... absolutely terrified about it.

Chris Williamson 30:40 With 5-3-1?

Jonny 30:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:41 It forces you into it.

Jonny 30:42 It forces you into a level of, of progression that you wouldn't access through, like, chest and back.

Yusef 30:46 The, the problem is, it's very butterfly effect, because if had Johnny and I just (clears throat) done 5-3-1 from the age of 17 and not really thought about it and just let fitness blend into the background, and then five years later, both be very, um, in very good shape-

Chris Williamson 31:03 Uninjured.

Yusef 31:03 ... competitive lifters, uninjured, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have generated the insight to create a fitness website or-

Jonny 31:10 Yeah.

Yusef 31:11 ... a fitness pa- with loads of content and loads, and richness of experience to be able to create content with and-

Jonny 31:15 You also don't know, do you, whether or not doing all that stuff created results even better?

Yusef 31:22 Ah.

Jonny 31:22 That's the real...

Yusef 31:23 (laughs)

Jonny 31:24 Because you can't ... We talk about this all the time, like if only you could split test it.

Yusef 31:27 Can't split test it. Oh, I'd l- if you could split test yourself, that would be the number one superpower, hands down.

Chris Williamson 31:32 Yeah.

Jonny 31:32 But you'd have to be able to rerun it though, wouldn't you?

Yusef 31:34 Like, if you-

Jonny 31:35 'Cause if you were just concurrently split testing.

Chris Williamson 31:37 You d- you can't get to go back, so it doesn't matter if you-

Yusef 31:39 If it was A, B, versus, like, m- hundreds of parallel split tests, and then you could just-

Jonny 31:43 Oh, yeah.

Yusef 31:44 Ooh.

Chris Williamson 31:44 Um, so training, we've said the ethos for whoever is listening is find a program which has progressive overload built in. Is that the key thing with 5-3-1?

Jonny 31:54 So, I think the bigger thing, which is what I was saying with Jesus quote is, whatever you do, you're going to have to do it for a long time for it to work. So, pick something that-

Chris Williamson 32:01 You enjoy.

Jonny 32:02 ... is not that of a difficult thing to do.

Yusef 32:04 And not stupid. (laughs)

Jonny 32:06 Yeah, so, like-

Chris Williamson 32:07 So, don't try and become a yoga master whilst also trying to becom- become a powerlifter.

Jonny 32:10 Or, like, if you hate the thought of going to the gym, don't pick going to the gym.

Chris Williamson 32:15 Take up running, take up rugby, take up fucking...

Jonny 32:18 And if, if going to the gym for two hours is a massive problem for your schedule, don't do that either.

Yusef 32:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 32:22 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 32:22 Like, whatever ... Think, "Whatever I pick to do now, in a, in this week as an example, I'm gonna have to do that every week for the rest of this year."

Chris Williamson 32:31 Can I deal with it?

Jonny 32:31 "Can I ... Is that possible?" And if not, do something else.

Chris Williamson 32:35 Okay, so that's where we've gone with fitness. What else did we touch on? Um, I think yours, yours was fucking amazing, man.

Jonny 32:42 Can we get a lift?

Yusef 32:42 Learn to code.

Chris Williamson 32:42 Um, so-

Yusef 32:43 But the ... So, I suppose the principle behind learn to code, learn to trade, um, learn Facebook ads, thi- this is all stuff that only now do we know the, um, the impact of the ... having those skills and having learned them or started them 10 years ago.

Chris Williamson 32:57 So, advice to people now for them to take, it's less of a global heuristic?

Yusef 33:01 It would be loo- look ahead and say, "What is going to be the skill or the, the feature or s- whatever that is going to be most valuable in five years' time, and how can you get an edge on that now?" And that's a very ... that's almost an impossible question, but-

Jonny 33:15 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 33:15 Alexan- Alexander Cortes podcast I did with him at the start of the year, he said if he was to give someone skills, it would be, um, coding, website copy, um, the ability to sell.

Jonny 33:25 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 33:26 Uh, and, uh, like, speaking, so ability to be on podcasts, to speak live, to have (overlapping dialogue) -

Jonny 33:33 Just communicate.

Chris Williamson 33:34 Yeah.

Yusef 33:35 So, so the last three I think would be useful, but what we don't know is, is the future of coding actually gonna become less valuable as ... Because coding as a skill becomes less code-intensive and easier as time goes on, because the tools wi- with which you code with become more and more complex and have larger building blocks to be able to put things together.

Chris Williamson 33:55 Think about making a website, you need to know HTML. A year, uh, like, 10 years ago, Wix.

Yusef 33:59 But now ... Yeah. So, so actually it's useless to know HTML now if you have to make a website, because even if you were to hand code it in HTML, you're, you're no better than-

Chris Williamson 34:07 Not going to be as good as Shopify or (overlapping dialogue)

Yusef 34:09 Yeah.

Jonny 34:09 ... teaching the guy who created Wix.

Chris Williamson 34:11 Yeah.

Yusef 34:12 Yeah, so you have to either be one, uh, one second order level-

Jonny 34:15 So, you know, the hardest thing about all this is, is that right now, we're in the position that we're speaking to.

Chris Williamson 34:21 Yeah.

Jonny 34:21 Because our ten- in 10 years, ourselves will be saying the same thing.

Chris Williamson 34:24 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 34:25 And you just told your- you just gave yourself the advice you needed.

Chris Williamson 34:28 Mm-hmm. Well, a lot of it's still-

Jonny 34:29 Give up on social and focus on ...

Chris Williamson 34:31 I, it's, but it's pulling the pin, it's not just about telling me advice, isn't it? It's fucking doing it.

Jonny 34:35 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:36 Like, you know, you know, f- like, have known, find well what would probably have been optimal with your training or with your, your diet or whatever. And another thing we have to consider, it's all well and good going, "Ah, I'll just stick to 5-3-1 for 10 years," but it's like, yeah, all right, mate, I'm not a robot. Like, I'm not... I, I need to have variety in my life.

Jonny 34:52 I want to do something fun.

Chris Williamson 34:53 Yeah, and we're not utilitarian fucking machines here. Like, I want to have variety. Um, but-

Yusef 34:58 But do you want variety more than you want results?

Jonny 35:00 It's, yeah, do you want entertainment by the process or the progress?

Chris Williamson 35:04 (exhales)

Yusef 35:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:05 Is that from a seminar somewhere?

Jonny 35:06 It's, it's just something that I-

Chris Williamson 35:08 Webby.

Jonny 35:08 ... came up within an email.

Chris Williamson 35:09 Webby.

Jonny 35:10 Webby. Do the Webby.

Chris Williamson 35:12 Splitting up with girlfriends. Fucking hell, man.

Yusef 35:14 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:14 I mean, this wasn't one for you, but Jesus Christ.

Yusef 35:16 It was one for me.

Chris Williamson 35:17 Oh, fuck. It was?

Yusef 35:18 That, uh, yeah. That was, that was-

Jonny 35:19 It wasn't one, it wasn't one for me.

Chris Williamson 35:20 Wasn't one for you?

Jonny 35:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:21 Was that 'cause you were single?

Jonny 35:23 Uh ...

Chris Williamson 35:23 Or did you like your girlfriend?

Jonny 35:24 I'd just broken up with a girlfriend at the time.

Chris Williamson 35:27 Job done.

Jonny 35:27 Um, but I, I did definitely spend too long in relationships that I should have been out of sooner.

Chris Williamson 35:32 Mm-hmm. Why did you stay in it?

Jonny 35:33 I, I, I just needed somebody to sit down and explain box A, box B to me.

Chris Williamson 35:37 (laughs)

Jonny 35:38 If someone had done that, I think it would've been like the clouds parted and I'd be like, "Right, right, okay, I get it."

Chris Williamson 35:43 I can't open-

Jonny 35:44 I get it.

Chris Williamson 35:45 You can't open that loop without closing it, but it's a complex thing. Can you-

Jonny 35:48 Just ... So just don't, don't stay in a situation that's bad and expect it to get better.

Chris Williamson 35:53 Some cost.

Jonny 35:54 Yeah. So, that's the s- I did that with my job. I did that with relationships. I did that with some friendships. I did that with injuries and training programs. Like, so many things you think, like, "This is a problem. I'm experiencing discomfort from this, but it's all right."

Chris Williamson 36:07 It'll get better.

Jonny 36:07 "It'll be better next week."

Chris Williamson 36:08 It'll fix itself.

Yusef 36:09 I mean, it, it's kind of obvious, it's a bit glib to say this, but all of our 30-second calls are, "Here's three things to stop. Here's three things to start."

Jonny 36:17 Yeah. (laughs)

Yusef 36:18 Go ahead.

Chris Williamson 36:18 Go. Yeah.

Jonny 36:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:20 Well, I mean, what else is there? (laughs)

Yusef 36:21 W- well, you can only start or stop things.

Chris Williamson 36:23 Things, yeah, that's it. Or keep going. (laughs)

Jonny 36:25 Um, uh, I suppose it's, with what you just said before, the box A thing, is like, when you're in a winning scenario, absolutely double down on that.

Chris Williamson 36:34 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 36:34 So rather than-

Narrator 36:35 Podcast platform.

Jonny 36:36 Yeah.

Narrator 36:36 YouTube, yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:37 Fuck, start podcasting 2010.

Jonny 36:38 And what you were saying about-

Narrator 36:39 Oh.

Jonny 36:40 Were you saying pulled in loads of different directions?

Chris Williamson 36:43 That was me, I think.

Jonny 36:44 Was it? Right. So, like, rather than thinking ... Oh, it was what you were saying, I think on a previous episode, of like, you doing A then B and th- the cost of switching between the two.

Narrator 36:53 Oh. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:53 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 36:53 Like, if you find something that you're doing in anything in life, like a skill that you're really good at, or a sport that you're really good at, or, like-

Chris Williamson 37:00 Your walling.

Jonny 37:01 ... whatever, just absolutely hammer down on that.

Chris Williamson 37:04 So, I mean, this is ... Again, uh, it's ... If I was to predict the advice ... In fact, let's do that after this. Let's predict the advice that our 10-year-self from now will give ourselves now.

Jonny 37:13 It's so great that this'll hopefully still be on the internet.

Chris Williamson 37:16 It will. Unless, unless of course it's post-apocalyptic death world-

Narrator 37:20 (laughs)

Jonny 37:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:21 ... and we're all Mad Max, the great leveller.

Narrator 37:24 It's the Russians.

Jonny 37:24 (laughs) The Russians.

Chris Williamson 37:25 The Russians (laughs) , yeah, it is. You'll be fine though.

Narrator 37:27 Oh, yeah?

Chris Williamson 37:27 You will. You can just go back to Egypt.

Narrator 37:30 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 37:30 Um, (laughs) y- so, yeah. They gave you all the AK-47s and stuff anyway (laughs)

Narrator 37:35 Going back to Egypt (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 37:39 (laughs)

Narrator 37:39 Take your pyramids with you, mate.

Chris Williamson 37:41 (laughs)

Narrator 37:41 Towel head.

Chris Williamson 37:44 (laughs)

Narrator 37:45 It's not even a racist term. It's like a, it's like a childish insult, isn't it? Like, towel-

Jonny 37:48 Deer-brained.

Narrator 37:49 Towel-head.

Jonny 37:49 Yeah (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 37:51 (laughs) Um, okay, so we've got some stuff about relationships that we've s- we've doubled down on things that we, or we've stuck in things that we're losing trades essentially, and we've just let them run.

Jonny 38:00 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 38:01 I was talking to Chris Sparks, uh, yesterday, productivity expert, po- poker guy, and he lives on risk, right? Top 20 poker players on the planet, he li- he lives risk for a living.

Jonny 38:10 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 38:10 That's his job to work out how much risk he's in.

Narrator 38:12 Manages it.

Chris Williamson 38:13 And he does ... And what he said was, um, at his end of year review, everything is up for sale. And I was like, "What do you mean by that?" And he said, "Nothing gets grandfathered in from year to year. Nothing that I do."

Narrator 38:25 That is cool.

Jonny 38:25 Yeah, that's ... So everything has to earn its right into the net.

Chris Williamson 38:28 Yeah, and he says he has two choices with everything that's in his life. Are you writing it down?

Narrator 38:32 Yeah.

38:33 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 38:33 I recorded the call. I'll just send you the call.

Narrator 38:35 Oh, Chris.

Jonny 38:36 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 38:36 Um, sorry, Chris, if you're listening, mate. I didn't ask your permission. I'm sure you'll be fine with it. Um, so what he says is, as he ends the year, and this is such a clever heuristic, man, oh my God. As he ends each year, he has ... Looks at all of the different things that he's doing with his life. Relationships, friendships, business, hobbies, passions, et cetera. And he has two choices. One of them is double the amount of time that he's invested on it.

Jonny 39:03 (gasps)

Chris Williamson 39:03 And the other one is get rid.

Jonny 39:07 So practically, you have to cut, don't you?

Chris Williamson 39:10 You have to cut 50% of everything you're doing.

Jonny 39:11 Mm-hmm. Right.

Chris Williamson 39:13 Well, actually no, sorry, you don't have to cut 50% of everything that you're doing because you could get rid of a load of little things.

Jonny 39:19 Right. Okay.

Chris Williamson 39:21 You could actually cut 90% of the stuff that you're doing and it'd still only be 50% of your time.

Jonny 39:24 But what I suppose what you're saying is-

Chris Williamson 39:25 Or you could cut 10% of the stuff that you're doing and it'd be 90% of your time.

Narrator 39:28 Depending on how good things are.

Jonny 39:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:29 Yes.

Jonny 39:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:29 Yes.

Jonny 39:29 But it, it's the, the idea of always be, always be questioning everything that you're doing, always be removing things.

Chris Williamson 39:34 Or always be narrowing. Always be niching harder-

Jonny 39:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 39:37 ... into what you are good at, till all you do is one-

Narrator 39:40 That's such a good question.

Chris Williamson 39:41 ... one thing. (laughs) It's terrifying.

Narrator 39:43 Yeah, 'cause it ... The first part, you're like, "Oh, that's hard." And then you ... Then it's like right, double or quit, you're like ...

Chris Williamson 39:50 And that's, that's the way th-

Narrator 39:50 Okay.

Chris Williamson 39:50 And he thinks about it from a poker player's perspective, right?

Jonny 39:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 39:54 Like, every single year, at the end of every year, this is gonna go out probably just shortly into the new year. Like-

Narrator 40:00 So every habit, every relationship, everything, like-

Chris Williamson 40:02 Everything that you do, you have to either choose whether you're going to double down on it or whether you're going to get rid of it. And I think it's, it's scary.

Jonny 40:08 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 40:08 But it's the way, it is ex- precisely the way that everyone that we know is the best in the world at what they do. We don't know anyone ... Like, polymaths of fucking new age media do not exist. Like, there's ... Gary Vee's as close as you're gonna get, but he's still one thing.

Narrator 40:25 Yeah, there's nobody-

Chris Williamson 40:25 He still just produce content, mostly video and audio-

Jonny 40:29 I've seen him as Instagram, to be honest.

Chris Williamson 40:30 ... repurpose around different platforms.

Jonny 40:33 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 40:33 Like, there's no one, you know ... F- James Clear, just double down on habits, just become the best on the planet at habits.

Jonny 40:42 He's big, he's actually big on ... Like, he credits his business growth to he just wrote two articles a week.

Chris Williamson 40:49 (laughs)

Jonny 40:50 (laughs) Like, one of his habits was writing, so he was like, "I'm just going to write two excellent articles every single week."

Narrator 40:55 Well, it's what we did for three, four years, wasn't it?

Chris Williamson 40:57 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 40:58 Totally.

Chris Williamson 40:58 They were all excellent. We s- we stopped them, but they were all excellent.

Narrator 41:00 They were, they were ...

Chris Williamson 41:01 They were all-

Narrator 41:02 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 41:02 ... articles.

Narrator 41:03 We put a lot of time into that, really.

Jonny 41:04 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 41:05 Wow. So yeah, I mean, that's, uh, is something that you can try and take away, and I will be trying to as well. Um, if you have something in your life or you have a lot of things in your life, if you feel like you're spinning a lot of different plates, question why they're there and think about, hang on, like, uh, what is it there for? Is it there because it's grandfathered in, because it's already got a seat at the table, or does it actually deserve to eat? And if it doesn't deserve to eat, then, like, it can make room for someone that does. (laughs) We're all a bit stunned by that double down or-

Jonny 41:35 Yeah, it just makes you think, doesn't it? And it just ... And the thing we just said about, like, what you just said about how ... 'Cause people follow, like ... This is very businessy, I suppose but people follow, like, good writers, good podcasters-

Chris Williamson 41:49 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 41:50 ... people who are really influential on Instagram, people who are great on LinkedIn, Twitter, and they're like, "Right, well, I need to do all of those things." But none of those people are worrying about anything other than that thing.

Narrator 42:01 That thing, yeah.

Jonny 42:01 And that's why they're there.

Chris Williamson 42:03 So the problem with spreading yourself too thin is if you have 100 units of talent and you spread it across 10 things, even if you are absolutely maxing out within each of those areas, you can only become as good as the 10 out of 100th person that's in that category.

Jonny 42:18 Well, you'll, you'll just be beaten by the person who's doing one less platform than you, or one less thing than you.

Chris Williamson 42:22 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 42:23 And you'll be annihilated by the person who's doing one of those platforms.

Chris Williamson 42:26 You just get out-competed by someone who's prepared to go all in-

Jonny 42:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 42:29 ... on something.

Jonny 42:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 42:30 But by that same token, because we don't have the benefit of fucking divinity moving forward-... we all also want to hedge, we're also-

Yusef 42:39 That's it.

Chris Williamson 42:39 ... not purely utilitarian beings, so it means that we want to have, uh, different things going on so that we have variety that keeps us feeling alive, that keeps us having this diet of different things that make us feel interested, and stuff like that.

Yusef 42:52 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 42:52 And different things serve different purposes as well, don't they? Like, it's not like, there's no such thing in anything that is a, that is a catchall, this is the one solution.

Chris Williamson 43:01 Yeah.

Jonny 43:01 This is the best thing. Like, there's no best training methodology, there's no best diet approach, there's no best recovery method.

Chris Williamson 43:08 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 43:08 But it's about, like, picking the most effective for you, isn't it?

Chris Williamson 43:12 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 43:13 True. Like, you, and to pick the optimum blend for the person that you want to be. Like, because going 10, 10Xing down on the one thing means that you become, by definition, a one-dimensional person.

Chris Williamson 43:26 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 43:27 And if that's the goal that you're looking for and the person you want to be in 10 years' time, then-

Jonny 43:32 Cool.

Yusef 43:32 ... that's it. But yeah, otherwise, it's, it's like... But it, I mean, the principle still applies, 'cause you then, you still cut out or double the things that you do care about, but you just pick that mixture yourself-

Jonny 43:43 Yeah.

Yusef 43:43 ... and say, "Right, that's, that's the formula."

Chris Williamson 43:45 I still think as well that a lot of, a lot of what most people will have the problem is, is a problem of abundance, not of scarcity.

Jonny 43:52 Yeah.

Yusef 43:53 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 43:53 The problem is that they're trying to do too many things, not that they're trying to do too few too well.

Jonny 43:57 Too many choices, isn't it? It's, it's not like, "I don't know what to do."

Yusef 44:02 Yeah, how many people do you know that have...

Jonny 44:03 It's-

Yusef 44:04 Sorry.

Jonny 44:04 ... that have, what, like a, a lack of options?

Yusef 44:06 A too few too well problem. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:08 No, not at all? No one? Um, okay. So, I mean, that's, we're all kind of a little bit shook after the fucking...

Jonny 44:15 Mm-hmm. Based on that, what is one thing that you know that you should be doing but aren't now?

Chris Williamson 44:25 That's probably the wrong question to ask, I think.

Jonny 44:27 Why?

Chris Williamson 44:28 Because I am doing all of them. It's what things-

Jonny 44:31 It's just not enough.

Chris Williamson 44:31 ... should I get rid of?

Jonny 44:33 Is it not, is there not something that you're thinking, like, "I really should be..." Like, if you were to give yourself advice, you're like, "I really should be doing this more," or, "I really, I should be putting more focus on this."

Yusef 44:41 Doing it more is different-

Jonny 44:43 Yeah.

Yusef 44:43 ... to, to, like, doing it at all.

Jonny 44:44 All right, yeah, I feel you.

Chris Williamson 44:45 'Cause that's adding that, putting another fucking seat at the table, 'cause I-

Jonny 44:47 So where, where should your focus be based on what's-

Yusef 44:50 'Cause I asked our coach, um, like, "Should I, do you think I should learn to code?"

Jonny 44:56 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 44:57 Because that's something I'm not doing at all now, and potentially-

Chris Williamson 44:59 (laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jonny 45:01 (laughs)

Yusef 45:01 And, uh, he said, "No, probably not, because it's not... It, it's not a good y- Like, it's such a big learning curve, and it's not a good use of your existing skill set."

Jonny 45:09 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 45:09 "Just pay someone to code and do the things that you do best."

Chris Williamson 45:12 One of the things that's interesting, I guess, as you get older is that the groove that you have greased is increasingly difficult to get out of.

Jonny 45:21 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 45:21 It's like, "Okay, I have this amount of time, and the-"

Jonny 45:24 Sorry.

Chris Williamson 45:24 "... opportunity cost of spinning back around-"

Jonny 45:27 Starting from zero.

Chris Williamson 45:28 "... to go and go like, 'Okay, I'll code. I'll start coding now.'" It's like, well, hang on, you have all of these skills, all this experience, all this renown, all of this platform, what- whatever it might be that you have, and you're going to choose to no longer leverage any of that.

Jonny 45:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:42 So, there has to be this acceptance of like, "Look, where am I now? What is the position that I am in right now, and what are the skills that I have moving forward?" 'Cause I think all of the things that we've chosen that we've said there, like, um, already leverage on stuff that we do. So for me, it was like, "Look, stop thinking about what other people think." That would've made me a better club promoter. I already was a club promoter.

Jonny 46:01 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 46:01 Um, focus on yourself and indulging in the things that you genuinely care about. That, that was something that I was massively lacking in, so that was getting rid of something I didn't need, and-

Yusef 46:10 So, what is an extra skill you can bolt on that won't just nullify all the previous experience that you've got?

Chris Williamson 46:15 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 46:16 So, in learning to code, I think if you have the skill of selling, and then you add learning to code on top of that, then you've got a combination that most salesmen or coders don't have the opposite of. And I think the people that do best at m- at the moment, like, at big tech companies, because they can sell and code, they can build something-

Jonny 46:37 And then market it.

Yusef 46:38 ... and match it to the market and sell it.

Chris Williamson 46:40 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 46:40 Whereas a lot of good coders don't think about front end or user experience or co- or, um, sales, and they're just focused on, like, the product and end up having this gap, or they create something that the ma- market doesn't need.

Chris Williamson 46:54 Mm-hmm.

Yusef 46:54 So actually ha- m- marrying those two skills would work really well. But-

Jonny 46:59 It's trying to find the...

Yusef 47:00 What's easier, teaching a salesman to code or a coder to sale?

Jonny 47:03 I think they're two-

Chris Williamson 47:04 Who knows, like-

Jonny 47:05 ... they're two contrary things, aren't they? They're so far apart-

Chris Williamson 47:07 Why wouldn't you just have, why wouldn't you just get a marketing specialist then?

Jonny 47:10 Yeah, see, that...

Yusef 47:11 Or, but, the, this, you could say the same thing about, why not just get a coder?

Jonny 47:15 Well, yeah.

Yusef 47:17 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:17 Like, you don't need to be both things.

Jonny 47:18 Just learn, learn to sell and pay someone to code.

Chris Williamson 47:20 Or learn to code and pay someone to sell.

Jonny 47:21 So the person who can sell will be able to deal with the world once coding's just automated.

Chris Williamson 47:28 So, I spoke to Benjamin Dennehy, the UK's most hated sales trainer, yesterday.

Jonny 47:31 (laughs) Right.

Chris Williamson 47:32 Kiwi guy。And, uh, he was like, "When the cockroaches rule the earth and the atomic bombs have all gone off," he was like, "people still need me."

Jonny 47:40 Yeah, you still need to sell.

Chris Williamson 47:41 Still need to sell the atomic bombs?

Jonny 47:43 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:43 Um...

Jonny 47:45 It's, it's finding... So, like, the, in all of the platform questions, like, the thing that remains in all of it is email. So the thing-

Chris Williamson 47:53 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 47:54 ... that like Netflix, John Lewis, like, Amazon, all these companies send email.

Chris Williamson 47:59 Email's Lindy, isn't it?

Jonny 48:01 (laughs) Lindy?

Yusef 48:02 Yeah, it is.

Jonny 48:48 ... email, like, dicks on all of them.

Narrator 48:50 (laughs)

Jonny 48:50 Like the number of emails sent per minute on the internet is, is astronomical.

Narrator 48:54 (laughs)

Jonny 48:54 But there are people who are like-

Narrator 48:55 It is actually.

Jonny 48:56 ... "Oh, well, email, email doesn't work. I need to be on social media." But then, like, people would not send emails if people-

Narrator 49:02 I guess we think of-

Jonny 49:02 ... were not reading them. Like, it would be the most asinine waste of time.

Narrator 49:05 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 49:05 Like, everybody at work is sending emails constantly.

Jonny 49:09 So, like, the, so I see, whenever we're talking about that side of things, like where do we put their attention? It's like, well, as long as you've got an email list and as long as you're emailing, if you decide that Twitter's the thing, you just-

Chris Williamson 49:19 Send them to your Twitter.

Jonny 49:19 ... tell, tell all your emails. So like there's a, I think often in every, like, area of your life, sorry, there's a, there's an email marketing version.

Narrator 49:28 (laughs)

Jonny 49:29 So it's like, right, I want to work on my, like, spirituality. Like, is it reading? Is it, like, yoga or is it just 20 minutes meditation every day? Like-

Chris Williamson 49:40 That's the email marketing version.

Jonny 49:41 Like, so pro- to me, I think probably the, the meditation, 20 minutes meditation. If I'm not doing that, then I've got no business, like, reading a self-development book.

Chris Williamson 49:49 Yeah.

Jonny 49:50 Do you see what I mean?

Chris Williamson 49:51 It's the, it's, it's a, it's a-

Jonny 49:52 I think I've, I've lost yous there (laughs) .

Narrator 49:53 No, no. It's a, it's a-

Chris Williamson 49:54 I'm bamboozled. It's just a hub and smoke- spoke model. So it's like the hub in the middle, the thing which is going to be there for the longest is email, and then everything else is just extraneous bullshit.

Jonny 50:03 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:04 Like, that you build on top.

Jonny 50:05 Okay. Like, still, still adds to the picture, but is-

Chris Williamson 50:07 I'm, I'm building a business, um, I'm working really, really hard on my Instagram.

Jonny 50:11 Okay. So-

Chris Williamson 50:11 It's like, okay, how long is Instagram going to be around for? How many people have you got on your Insta? Oh, I've got 200,000. How many people have you got on your email list? Oh, I've got 2,000.

Jonny 50:18 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:18 Right, okay. Well, what happens when Instagram fucks off, 'cause email isn't.

Jonny 50:22 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 50:22 Yeah.

Narrator 50:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 50:23 Okay. So, what-

Jonny 50:23 It's just in terms of allocating your attention. So it's like with fitness and nutrition, like, are you aware of your calorie intake? Right. Well, okay, if not, like, don't worry about supplementation. Like-

Chris Williamson 50:34 Don't worry about it fasting.

Jonny 50:34 ... calorie's always gonna matter. Are you progressively overloading in something? And then-

Chris Williamson 50:39 Don't worry about CrossFit, don't worry about power lifting.

Jonny 50:41 ... are you doing email marketing? Yes, no. (laughs)

Narrator 50:43 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 50:43 If no, go back to are you doing email marketing?

Jonny 50:46 It's the, the way to see it is, like, if you and I are starting like a Ticktick channel-

Chris Williamson 50:52 Yeah.

Jonny 50:52 ... and I have an email list of 100,000 people, and you have zero, who is going to win at the game of growing a, a Ticktick, what is it?

Chris Williamson 50:59 Ticktock.

Jonny 50:59 Is it a channel? Ticktock. Ticktick's email list. Dean looked so upset there.

Narrator 51:04 (laughs)

Jonny 51:04 I knew that I'd said something wrong.

Chris Williamson 51:06 Dean worked in social media.

Jonny 51:07 Is Ticktock the thing that you sing into and then-

Chris Williamson 51:09 Like-

Jonny 51:09 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 51:10 It's the new version of Vine.

Jonny 51:11 Like Singstar.

Chris Williamson 51:12 It's the new version of Musical.ly.

Jonny 51:13 Sing, Singstar. Ticktick's what we use as a task management.

Chris Williamson 51:16 With Pomodoro integrated. Yeah, it's great.

Jonny 51:18 Okay, so we've got, we've got about 10 minutes left. Um... Oh.

Chris Williamson 51:23 We've spoken about the fact that sticking to the program is a good idea. We've spoken about the fact that doing less better or doing less more essentially is a pretty good heuristic to use.

Jonny 51:39 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 51:39 Young relationships should be let go of more freely than you think at the time.

Jonny 51:47 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 51:47 They just probably won't matter as much as you think they do. (sighs) Seems pretty obvious looking back, doesn't it?

Jonny 51:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 51:55 How many people do you know that get together during Freshers' Week at uni and then stay together? (laughs) Like-

Jonny 52:00 They, they do exist but, like, (sighs) this is a, a-

Chris Williamson 52:05 Throw it out there.

Jonny 52:05 ... dubious thing to say.

Chris Williamson 52:06 Pull the pin.

Jonny 52:07 A lot of people, um, that I know who've, like, been in relationships a long time, since they were like 17, 16, tend to have some kind of turbulence in their relationship because they haven't had the freedom aspect.

Chris Williamson 52:20 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 52:20 There are obviously examples of, of that not being the case.

Chris Williamson 52:23 With Darren Killeen.

Jonny 52:24 People that have been together their entire lives.

Chris Williamson 52:25 Business partners and, and his missus got together in like, I think second year of uni, like halfway through the second year of uni. And they're like the fucking British version of the American dream, white picket fence, two dogs, two kids. Like-

Jonny 52:36 I mean-

Chris Williamson 52:37 Amazing. But the problem is they are the problem. They are precisely the problem because they give hope to the 19-year-old who thinks-

Jonny 52:44 That that's the model.

Chris Williamson 52:45 ... that this is what's gonna happen.

Jonny 52:46 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:46 So you, Darren, are the issue, okay? Um-

Jonny 52:50 It's, it's like trying to, it's like saying like, "Oh, well, Alan Shearer just played loads of football, so that's what I'm gonna do 'cause that'll work for me."

Chris Williamson 52:56 He played loads of football. Yeah. Okay, so what else?

Jonny 52:58 I ended up quite like Killeen.

Narrator 52:59 Survivorship bias.

Jonny 53:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:00 Yeah.

Narrator 53:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:00 What, what else have you got on your phone, Johnny? What else was in that list that we've made a list of?

Jonny 53:03 Uh...

Chris Williamson 53:04 'Cause you basically did the list for us three (laughs) .

Jonny 53:05 The, the catchall thing that I added at the end that just covers everything is ask for help.

Chris Williamson 53:10 Is that get a coach?

Jonny 53:11 Yeah. Well, so it's do five, three, one, start meditating. So do, like, so don't when you do things, go to events, they're almost always a good idea. So like there's so many things that I'm like, "I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't go to that. I won't go to that party. I won't meet that person for a coffee. It'll be shite." You go and it's mint.

Chris Williamson 53:27 Awesome.

Jonny 53:28 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:28 Say yes to more adventures.

Jonny 53:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:30 Saying-

Jonny 53:30 The trouble with that is y- y- you can, I imagine, get in a, some deep water quite quickly if you-

Chris Williamson 53:35 If you just say yes to everything (laughs) .

Jonny 53:36 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 53:36 Have you, have you ever been even close to that?

Jonny 53:39 No, but that's coming from a, that's coming from someone who'd probably err on the side of like, "That seems like a bad idea."

Chris Williamson 53:43 Introversion, yeah.

Jonny 53:44 Um, whereas if you're like, "I'll go to everything," and you start going to more.

Chris Williamson 53:48 I know more people that are on, and this might just be, like, my sphere of awareness bias, but I know more people that err towards our side, which is say, need to say yes to less in terms of business and projects and need to say yes to more in terms of experience and adventure.

Jonny 54:06 Yep.

Narrator 54:06 Mm.

Jonny 54:07 Yep.

Chris Williamson 54:08 Yeah. That's-

Jonny 54:09 Start, start taking business more seriously sooner. I couldn't apply it-

Chris Williamson 54:14 I'd remember from that. That would have been fucking terrible for me.

Jonny 54:16 Right.

Chris Williamson 54:16 I'd already like completely linchpinned my sense of identity to the success of the business.

Jonny 54:22 Right.

Chris Williamson 54:22 Like if we had a bad night at work, I was a bad person. If we had a good night at work, I was worthy.

Jonny 54:27 Right. Okay.

Narrator 54:27 So doubling down on that would have just-

Chris Williamson 54:30 Would have been-

Jonny 54:30 It would have come off-

Chris Williamson 54:30 It would have, for me, the, a better piece of advice would have been to have said, um, "You are not your accomplishments."

Jonny 54:37 Right.

Narrator 54:37 It sounds like you, you almost merged your social life with your, with your sense of this is business progress as well. Like, whenever you went to a party, whenever you were like, oh...

Chris Williamson 54:46 Super messy.

Narrator 54:47 Yeah. So-

Jonny 54:48 Hard to not be the case when, like, probably everyone's, everyone else's social life is your work life.... at uni, so they, like, it's-

Chris Williamson 54:56 And you are the party guy. It's the inversion of what is still now, if you, if I speak to someone, "Hey man, like, what are you up to this weekend? Like, do you fancy meeting up or whatever?" It's like, "Oh, yeah, like, let's go on a night out." It's like, well, no, like, that's what I do for work.

Jonny 55:10 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 55:11 I know it's what you do for fun.

Jonny 55:12 Mm-hmm. But what you do for fun, I do for work.

Narrator 55:14 Like, I'd rather just have a cup of tea and sit and have a swim-

Chris Williamson 55:15 Well, just for anything that's not that, but for them it's the novelty. It's the same as talking Sienna day. It's like, if you've spent your entire day-

Narrator 55:22 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:22 We did a podcast with a porn star, if you haven't heard of it.

Narrator 55:25 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:25 If you've spent your entire day getting DP'd off a huge Amsterdam man-

Jonny 55:30 Amsterdam man.

Chris Williamson 55:31 ... and his friend, and his friend-

Narrator 55:32 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 55:32 ... like, and you come home and your partner's like, "Oh hi darling, how are you? Got my friend round here, he just fancies a bit of a go on you while they're-"

Narrator 55:39 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:39 Like, you'd be like, "Oh, man," like-

Narrator 55:41 She's an exception.

Chris Williamson 55:42 She'd be like, "Oh, I'm so fucking hot." (laughs)

Jonny 55:45 Yeah, that might be her idea of the best evening ever.

Chris Williamson 55:47 Yeah, true. So-

Jonny 55:48 She really does, she's a goer. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:54 (laughs)

Jonny 55:54 The best thing about that podcast on YouTube is that the frame that she's in, you're also in.

Chris Williamson 56:00 Stun side. (laughs)

Jonny 56:00 So there's times when she's talking about the most, like, vivid stuff, and you're just like...

Chris Williamson 56:09 (laughs)

Narrator 56:09 (laughs)

Jonny 56:09 You should watch it. It's good. Um, so yeah, so start taking business more seriously. The thing is, I don't, again, looking back, like, had we done that, I might've wrecked it. 'Cause I think probably this part of the fact that we were just doing it 'cause we just absolutely loved doing it as it was emerging.

Chris Williamson 56:22 And that's, like, that's what got the organic enquiries was the fact that it was just putting out content and people-

Jonny 56:26 Yeah, 'cause we were just interested in it.

Chris Williamson 56:28 And actually, it's what we tell our business clients now, isn't it? It's like, make content first. Don't just go be the weird uncle at the barbecue that tries to sell straight away.

Jonny 56:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 56:37 Give first, and actually-

Jonny 56:38 Start from passion.

Chris Williamson 56:38 Yeah.

Jonny 56:38 And just, like, the Google game takes a long time.

Chris Williamson 56:41 We were ranking number-

Jonny 56:42 Like, start-

Chris Williamson 56:43 First page on Google and getting organic enquiries for coaching clients from just, like, a standard word-

Jonny 56:49 Ramadan articles.

Chris Williamson 56:49 ... WordPress template that we were just bashing out here.

Jonny 56:51 But you used to, you used to throw articles, like, literally seven or eight years ago that are still, like, the key drivers of our traffic.

Chris Williamson 56:59 Conversions, big daily hits. Yeah. (laughs)

Jonny 57:00 That's why I think-

Chris Williamson 57:01 So weird.

Jonny 57:01 ... search-based stuff, like, and it'll be the same for YouTube.

Chris Williamson 57:04 Lindy.

Jonny 57:04 Like, you will have ... I imagine there'll be episodes of Modern Muslim that are still ticking over daily and getting traffic.

Chris Williamson 57:09 When we don't have stuff that surges virally, there is, like, ten episodes on YouTube-

Jonny 57:14 That just-

Chris Williamson 57:15 ... that just do 5K a day-

Jonny 57:17 Yep.

Chris Williamson 57:17 ... between them all.

Jonny 57:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:18 And it just sits at that, and that's now the new baseline.

Jonny 57:20 So that's the thing. Like, compare that to Instagram.

Chris Williamson 57:24 Yeah.

Jonny 57:24 Imagine if you tried to get 5,000 views a day on Instagram-

Chris Williamson 57:27 Mm.

Jonny 57:27 ... the work required for that every day, whereas YouTube's just, like ...

Chris Williamson 57:31 Churning it out.

Jonny 57:31 Just la- it's the lazy river of the internet, isn't it? It's brilliant.

Chris Williamson 57:33 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 57:33 Um, learn marketing and sales, we've covered that. Learn to trade, learn to code, and ask for help.

Chris Williamson 57:39 The ask for help thing's a big one, man. Like-

Jonny 57:41 Especially when you're that age, when you're young. Like, I think you, you resist. I certainly resisted. Like, I didn't hire my first fitness coach, which is mental, 'til like-

Chris Williamson 57:49 23 was it?

Jonny 57:50 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:50 Yeah.

Narrator 57:51 Fuck.

Jonny 57:52 So I tried for ages on my own, struggled on my own.

Chris Williamson 57:55 I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't have at 18. I would've been like, "Oh, what do these guys know?"

Jonny 57:57 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:57 Like ...

Jonny 57:58 We had hours and hours of conversations trying to figure out, like, is it all right to have two high carb days, or, or is one-

Chris Williamson 58:04 (laughs) Oh, that stressed me out so much.

Jonny 58:06 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 58:07 The idea of it.

Jonny 58:07 So much so, one of the most, the, the highest performing things we ever did was got Jon Kiefer on the podcast right before Carb Backloading was released. That hadn't ... There was no thought in that other than we just need to understand whether it's all right to have fat in your backload, or whether it has to be just carbs.

Chris Williamson 58:24 Ah, yeah.

Jonny 58:25 And that was why you asked him for podcasts.

Chris Williamson 58:26 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 58:26 And we asked him on the podcast, then I went on his podcast.

Chris Williamson 58:28 And that was-

Jonny 58:29 All just out of, like, desperation of like, "Jon, how does insulin work? Please can you explain it."

Narrator 58:33 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 58:34 So in, in, in that program, like, I remember, so you don't have carbs during the day. You have just fat and protein, and then 5:00 PM, KFC bargain bucket.

Narrator 58:44 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 58:44 Uh, which is mostly fat dominant anyway.

Jonny 58:47 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 58:47 And, and then-

Jonny 58:47 Certainly from a calorie perspective.

Chris Williamson 58:49 And then, and then a drink that was 100 grams of dextrose, uh, 150 milligrams of caffeine. Uh-

Jonny 58:57 At 5:00 PM.

Chris Williamson 58:58 Yeah, 5:00 PM, leucine-

Jonny 59:00 Because of, like, glut 4 or something.

Chris Williamson 59:02 Yeah.

Narrator 59:02 (laughs) Caffeine was shuttling it into the satellite cells.

Jonny 59:04 Exactly, yeah. Exactly.

Chris Williamson 59:06 Leucine, hydrolyzed whey, like, the most, all the most disgusting powders just put into one thing, and you just glug it down. Try and, like, hold your nose and make sure you don't vomit for the next couple of minutes, and you're like okay to go.

Jonny 59:17 What I really miss about that, though, was that it was, it was exciting as fuck, wasn't it? Like, I remember-

Chris Williamson 59:21 New frontiers.

Jonny 59:22 Yeah. I remember, like, it was 6:00 AM and we were Skyping with, with Jon Kiefer for our podcast, and, like, being just beside myself with excitement about it.

Chris Williamson 59:30 And, like, doing the program. Like, the, the pump-

Jonny 59:33 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 59:34 ... after having, like, 500 grams of sugar.

Narrator 59:36 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 59:37 (laughs) And just training. Oh yeah, you did a 30 day.

Jonny 59:42 So I remember you text me saying, "Can I have ... " It was a picture of birthday cake saying, "Can I have birthday cake for carb backloading?" I was like, "Why did you have birthday cake? Why, why do you want birthday cake?" And your reply was, just said, "It says on it party, and I like to party."

Chris Williamson 59:58 (laughs)

Narrator 59:59 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 59:59 That was great. If, if anyone needed an explanation of the sort of arsehole that I was ten years ago- ... you go for Party Chris in full flow.

Jonny 1:00:06 I remember you used to eat, um, tins of chicken.

Chris Williamson 1:00:10 Why, uh, chunky chicken?

Jonny 1:00:11 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:00:11 Still in there.

Jonny 1:00:13 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:00:13 (laughs) That's ama- Do you still eat it? That's real-

Jonny 1:00:16 Is it, like, back up stuff?

Chris Williamson 1:00:17 ... desperate, yeah.

Jonny 1:00:17 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:00:18 "Fuck, I've got no food."

Jonny 1:00:20 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:00:20 Like ...

Jonny 1:00:20 Chunky chicken with rice.

Chris Williamson 1:00:22 With rice, yeah. Good meal though.

Jonny 1:00:23 And you, I remember your reasoning for carb backloading was it was a reason that you had to go the gym, 'cause if you didn't train-

Chris Williamson 1:00:29 Couldn't have carbs.

Jonny 1:00:29 ... you couldn't have carbs.

Chris Williamson 1:00:30 Yeah.

Jonny 1:00:31 So it was like burger and cheese and an egg for dinner.

Chris Williamson 1:00:33 Clever way to do it. Um, okay.

Jonny 1:00:35 It's just calories. Boring.

Chris Williamson 1:00:37 We're coming to the end. Uh, uh, uh, what are some of the things that you've realized during this conversation, Johnny?

Jonny 1:00:44 Uh, that wherever you are giving people the most advice is probably where you need the advice the most. That's something I hear a lot at the moment.

Chris Williamson 1:00:53 How so?

Jonny 1:00:54 Like, I think the stuff that you-All this stuff that we've just said is all advice that we all need right now. And like, if you think about all the stuff you tell your friends, all the advice you're giving to people, like, look at that area of your life yourself-

Chris Williamson 1:01:08 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 1:01:08 ... 'cause it's probably the area that you talk loads about but you don't actually do much in.

Chris Williamson 1:01:13 Well, we're fantastic at f- talking a good game-

Jonny 1:01:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:01:17 ... and of giving people advice that we wholeheartedly require ourselves.

Jonny 1:01:20 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 1:01:21 What about you, Saf? Anything, any little gems come out of this one? Just short oil.

Jonny 1:01:26 Yeah, short oil.

Chris Williamson 1:01:27 That's right.

Yusef 1:01:27 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:01:27 Buy Bitcoin and short oil.

Yusef 1:01:29 Well, like, all, all of the things that are, like, we- we've gone general and specific, and actually all that advice does apply for the next 10 years too.

Jonny 1:01:38 Yeah.

Yusef 1:01:38 So if anything, it's such a useful exercise in life.

Jonny 1:01:41 It's the be- We've been, we've all been tricked, haven't we?

Yusef 1:01:43 Into-

Jonny 1:01:43 In giving ourselves-

Yusef 1:01:44 What is the advice we need now-

Chris Williamson 1:01:45 Yeah. (laughs)

Jonny 1:01:46 Yeah.

Yusef 1:01:46 ... for our 40-year-old selves, yeah?

Chris Williamson 1:01:47 "What would you give, what advice do you give yourself now?"

Jonny 1:01:50 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:01:50 Should've been the title of the podcast.

Jonny 1:01:51 Oh, that one there? There it is.

Chris Williamson 1:01:52 There it is.

Jonny 1:01:53 But we'd have said the wrong shit though.

Chris Williamson 1:01:54 We would've done, yeah.

Jonny 1:01:55 Whereas we've said the right stuff now.

Chris Williamson 1:01:56 Yeah.

Yusef 1:01:57 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 1:01:57 Thank goodness for that.

Chris Williamson 1:01:58 Um, parting thoughts, I think definitely, you know, Chris Spark's conversation I had with him yesterday, that motherfucker. Like, saying nothing gets grandfathered into your life just because it's already there. Relationships, business, projects, passions, everything. And at the end of each year, everything's up for sale. Nothing gets a seat at the table. It has to earn its place to eat, and you either get to double down on it or it gets kicked out. Like, if you even manage to do 10% of that heuristic each year, like, fucking hell.

Yusef 1:02:37 Mm-hmm.

Jonny 1:02:37 There was a, when I was in the throes of fitness obsession, there was a photo that Martin Berkhan uploaded onto Facebook with a glass of wine, like, shredded, glass of wine, and the photo just said, "Don't take this fitness stuff too seriously, let the good times roll."

Chris Williamson 1:02:55 (laughs)

Jonny 1:02:55 And th- he then got, had a bit of a breakdown and didn't, wasn't on the internet very much.

Chris Williamson 1:02:59 (laughs)

Yusef 1:02:59 (laughs)

Jonny 1:02:59 But, like, I think sometimes though, like, probably a bit of advice I would've also, should've had 10 years ago is like, it's all right to not, like, have all the answers, be exactly where you think you need to be, be making progress all the time. Like, you can just have a good f- go have good fun.

Chris Williamson 1:03:18 Don't take it too seriously.

Jonny 1:03:19 Yeah, let the good times roll.

Yusef 1:03:21 That is a great parting thought. You know? Yeah.

Jonny 1:03:23 Thanks to Martin.

Chris Williamson 1:03:25 (laughs)

Yusef 1:03:26 Isn't it?

Jonny 1:03:26 And always remember that Martin Berkhan is and has always been right about everything. Seriously.

Yusef 1:03:31 Oh, yeah.

Jonny 1:03:32 In fitness.

Chris Williamson 1:03:32 Okay.

Yusef 1:03:34 Every time we question something or think, "Oh, he's a bit off on there," and then, like, a year later-

Jonny 1:03:37 We get a little idea of our own-

Chris Williamson 1:03:38 Half a decade later.

Jonny 1:03:38 ... that Martin might be wrong, we realize-

Yusef 1:03:40 (laughs)

Jonny 1:03:40 ... Martin was right the entire time. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:03:42 Yeah. I mean, it's gonna hurt, it is gonna hurt if we look back at this in 10 years' time and all of the things that we've said are just like... (sighs)

Jonny 1:03:51 But that's the motivation to not let that happen, for heaven's sake.

Chris Williamson 1:03:54 That is, that is, that is the motivation, isn't it? It's trying to foresee what, what should I be? And the question that we're asking is, "What should I spend my time doing?"

Jonny 1:04:01 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:04:01 We have limited time on this planet, right? Like, very few minutes. How do I make the most of them? And the first thing it, I know that if Chris Spark was here, he would say, "The first thing that you need to do is work out what you want."

Jonny 1:04:13 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:04:13 'Cause if you don't know what you want, you are actually flying in the dark.

Jonny 1:04:18 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:04:18 You're actually, you're just going, "Well, what, w- like, why should I do this? Because it gets me closer to end goal." And if you don't know what end goal is, what the fuck are you doing? So-

Jonny 1:04:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:04:30 Anyway, there may be some things that you want to discuss. You know where I'm at, @chriswellex on all social media, or leave questions in the comments below. Love to have a discussion about it. These guys, @propainfitness, and what's the business one?

Jonny 1:04:44 Propainfitness.com/modernwisdom.

Chris Williamson 1:04:48 Free seven-step-

Jonny 1:04:50 It's just brilliant, to be honest.

Chris Williamson 1:04:51 ... uh, ebook to get some free things?

Jonny 1:04:53 It's just we reveal, like, one thing that you would never believe on it.

Chris Williamson 1:04:57 Length of useless penis.

Jonny 1:04:59 Uh, it's, it's a secret that-

Yusef 1:05:00 You would not believe it.

Jonny 1:05:01 ... I can't tell you. That you just, you'll have to go to that URL to find out.

Chris Williamson 1:05:03 Give us your email.

Jonny 1:05:04 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:05:04 (laughs)

Jonny 1:05:06 Cool.

Chris Williamson 1:05:06 Thank you very much for tuning in. Like, share, and subscribe. Really appreciate you for dropping by. Okay, bye then.

Jonny 1:05:13 Yeah, bye then. (instrumental music)

Narrator 1:05:17 No offense. Ah, yeah, ah, yeah. No offense.