Modern WisdomWhat No One Wants to Admit About Porn - Zack Telander
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,003 words- 0:00 – 5:28
Catching Up
- CWChris Williamson
We live together.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And despite that fact, we've barely seen each other for probably two months now.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. Well, because if I'm traveling, you're home. If you're traveling, I'm home. So tha- now we're finally reunited.
- CWChris Williamson
And-
- ZTZack Telander
It's g- feels good.
- CWChris Williamson
... in that time, it, it, like, it's, that's such a long amount of time for two people to be apart that life has happened in the interim.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I hit a million subs, recorded with Bumstead, Sam Harris, Hormozi, went to that Gymshark event. You traveled to the UK, Korea, Japan, then came back, then went to the CrossFit Games for the entire time. Rogan posted a piece of your content on the show that he did, reacted to a piece of content on the show.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
I think you've broken some more subscriber milestones. And now I'm about to leave for another two weeks. So this is like a brief period. Like, everybody else might not ca- I haven't caught up with you.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So I wanna know what, what, what the headlines have been from the last couple of months of your life.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, just more of the same. Like, it's the content game. You, you know it, I know it. It's very g- it's, what's cool is, like, for, for those of us, or for people who aren't in the content game, basically everyone who's listening to this, um, it's very interesting to find people who are also in it and then live with that person. So it's like, uh, I kind of get motivated by your work, and I feel like sometimes you check in and you're like, "Holy shit, Zach's done something pretty big here." Um, but yeah. It's just more of the same. Like, uh, getting crazy interviews, meeting people who... So Ben Smith, the winner of the CrossFit Games back in 20 s- '15 or 2016 or something, maybe 2014, I forget, um, he was one of my heroes in CrossFit. I'm at the airport and he walks up to me. He, like, he literally, like, says, "Be there for me." He goes, "Hey man, I love your stuff on YouTube." I'm like-
- CWChris Williamson
Fanboys over you.
- ZTZack Telander
Bro (laughs) , I have... Yeah. So, so we, like, clicked immediately. I went to, uh, Virginia Beach, and I actually just did a training session with him. I didn't even cover it or put it on my YouTube channel. Um, it was just so cool for things like that to happen. And I know that that's been happening to you. Like, because I knew you before you would've ever had a chance to have been on Rogan-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- ZTZack Telander
... uh, let alone be friends with Rogan. So, it, it's really, really fun.
- CWChris Williamson
You just had an episode on Rogan where some episode got responded to. What was that? I haven't watched that episode yet. I saw your screenshot of it, but I haven't seen it. What were they reacting to and what'd they say?
- ZTZack Telander
So it was, uh, Oleksandr Karelin, who is, uh, one of the most dominant athletes, period, of all time. Uh, I think he went over a decade without losing in wrestling. So he was a Greco-Roman wrestler, and he was a super heavyweight, I think. I w- yeah. So that's, like, um, kind of like the unlimited class. But he was picking up guys. Like, he's picking up the super heavyweights, and that's not typically the thing. Um, he had, you know, one, his main move was the Karelin lift where it's, like, you hold someone around the waist, but upside down, and then you can throw them or whatever. Um, he was so good and so athletic that some athletes would forfeit before even going up against him. They would literally forfeit before going up against him. And, um, hi- the, the numbers that he hit in the weight room, this is why it was so interesting to me, the numbers that he hit in the weight room, the size of this guy, and then his athleticism. He could do backflips. He could do the splits. He was about, like, 6'3", 280 pounds in his prime. Like, right around 300-ish maybe a- at his heaviest. Uh, but he was a freak of nature. And I made a video on it, and it kind of popped off a little bit. It exploded late. You know how videos do that? Like, they're just kinda whatever, and then, like, a year later, they just go. Uh, that happened to this video. And then I posted it, a part of it, to my Instagram. And Rogan saw it on my Instagram, followed me on Instagram, which was pretty cool. Uh, and then recently, he was talking with someone, I forget who it was, but they-
- CWChris Williamson
Gad Saad.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, Gad Saad. And he was like, "Have you heard of this guy, Karelin?" Go on YouTube, you search Oleksandr Karelin. Whose video pops up? It's your boy's video. It's right there.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's go.
- ZTZack Telander
So they're pulling it up, watching it.
- CWChris Williamson
How did that, how did that feel?
- ZTZack Telander
It felt good, but it was also like... You know, it's not like they went, "Oh, this guy, Zach Tellander, made a really good video." It wasn't about me.
- CWChris Williamson
You're a byproduct of-
- ZTZack Telander
Exactly. I just provided the, the info for them. However, uh, the, the follow on Instagram was much bigger deal, for sure.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that adrenaline dump is one hell of a drug.
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, yeah.
- 5:28 – 14:56
Fyre Festival 2.0
- CWChris Williamson
But first, we need to talk about our old friend Billy McFarland, guy that did Fyre Festival. So for the people that aren't familiar, "Fraudster Billy McFarland relaunches Fyre Festival from behind bars with $8,000 tickets. His rerun of the event, which previously ended in disaster in 2017, is set to take place in December next year." So he was in jail for quite a while. It seems like he's out now. And he puts this video up-... in a (laughs) bathrobe, looking like the most aristocratic, like, New York wanker that you can think of. And he said, "This is a big day. It has been the absolute wildest journey to get here, and it all started during a seven-month stint in solitary confinement. I wrote out this 50-page plan of how it would take this overall interest and demand in Fyre, and how it would take my ability to bring people from around the world together to make the impossible happen." Long story short, he has released tickets, first sale of tickets have sold out for another Fyre Festival in the Caribbean, which I think is where it was last time-
- ZTZack Telander
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... Pablo Escobar's island.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And he's just running it back.
- ZTZack Telander
Well, I have a question.
- CWChris Williamson
He's just like, "We'll- we'll just do it again."
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, I have a question. So he wrote a 50-page manifesto or something in prison?
- CWChris Williamson
In solitary conf- like a businessman.
- ZTZack Telander
Number one thing, my brother in Christ, it's not that deep. It really isn't.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
You got a bunch of models... I'm sorry, you got a bunch of models and s- you know, kinda A-ish celebrities to post an orange photo, and that... But this was before viral was, like, so saturated online, and this idea of Fyre Festival exploded. It was over your head, you didn't cancel it quick enough, and you stole a bunch of money from a bunch of people. It's not that deep. Oh, what? So- so you're reinventing yourself, doing this thing. I'm gonna... You know, it's like, you're just trying to do another festival.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Like, it's been done now, since Fyre Festival.
- CWChris Williamson
You're not- you're not Ted Kaczynski.
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
This is (laughs) this isn't like you fu- trying to fix the problems of the world. Yeah, I... Dude, I don't know. I- I've got such interesting thoughts about, or feelings about Billy McFarland, because I know for a fact that if he'd managed to pull off the Fyre Festival, people... Even if he'd, even if it just wasn't a complete disaster, even if it was remotely acceptable, people would- would have hailed him as a marketing genius. Because-
- ZTZack Telander
Well, Chris, yeah, this is what we al- me and you always end up talking about this. We love winners. The world loves winners. And it doesn't even matter how evil, how bad they are, if they win, you- you have to... There's a decent amount of people who are just gonna be like, "Yeah, but dude, look at the money. Look at the..." You know, "He- he- he fulfilled, he came back. We love a comeback story." It's like, well, that can't... You- you can't forgive and forget everything like that. I mean, this is- this is Andrew Tate, this is, um, you know, Logan Paul, uh, Jake Paul, L- the Logan Paul rug pull, the- with- with the CryptoZoo, I think like two weeks later or four weeks later, he did a deal with Dana White, the- in the UFC. And now he's doing a deal with, uh, you know, Bayern Munich. It's like, there is no... It's just, you keep moving. You just... If you're one of these guys, you just- you get in trouble, you keep moving, you start winning again. Everyone goes, "Yeah, but like, they won a few times," you know?
- CWChris Williamson
I would've thought... So with- with, uh, Billy McFarland specifically, after the two documentaries, one that was on Netflix and the other that was on Hulu, I think, they were so damning. Right? People got to learn about him as this awful, predatory business partner who called in the military genius of Ja Rule to be his operator. Like (laughs) , the guy-
- ZTZack Telander
For that time, uh, that time in New York was crazy too. Um, the... By the way, you and I, our age group, that was us. It was like the... I think like the 2013 to 2016 Instagram was very interesting because virality and- and new social media trends was popping off. And my friend lived in New York at the time, and he- I think he had one of those black cards that Billy McFarland was making and Ja Rule was promoting, and like weird shit was happening in these clubs (laughs) and stuff, and like-
- CWChris Williamson
Dude.
- ZTZack Telander
... weird partnerships. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
What a brain trust that was, huh?
- CWChris Williamson
We got... Really, really pulled in all of the high-IQ players to get Ja Rule-
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... in to come and fix it. And then it's like, almost, if you do that, if you get someone who's a rapper in as your business partner, it's almost a little bit like, "Well, you know, we couldn't have expected much." It was Ja Rule that- that... You know, he was the brains behind the operation...
- ZTZack Telander
Hm.
- CWChris Williamson
... that tried to bring it all to market. But yeah, I- I don't know, man. Like, Billy McFarland, separate to, uh, Logan and- and Jake specifically, I think Tate's kind of a- a bit of a different animal, but Logan and Jake have an unbelievable resilience in terms of their public image. I don't know anybody that's been able to ride waves in the same way that those two guys have. You can throw anything that you want, anything that you want at those guys, and it doesn't seem to stick. And (sighs) a little bit of it is- is kind of like, well, I- I... Maybe people have become desensitized to those guys being in the news for bad things. It's like, "Ah, man..." You- you know, just like add it to the list. There's the- the suicide forest, and there's the- the CryptoZoo, and there's the- this thing. Like Prime doesn't ha- it's got... It's all potassium, it's no sodium. And it's th- th- the coconut concentrate, not coconut water, and blah, blah, blah. You know, it's just a- a big list, a big laundry list of-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- 14:56 – 26:53
Will New Transgender Powerlifting Policies Impact Sport?
- CWChris Williamson
Powerlifting Federation has changed its policy seemingly in response to outrage generated by male dominating female competitions, breaking records along the way. Male competitor Ann Andress, 40, recently defeated all female competitors at the Canadian Powerlifting Union's 2023 Western Canadian Championship by lifting a combined score of 1,317 pounds, beating the second place finisher by more than 450 pounds. You did a video on this a long time ago, or a good while ago. You were really out ahead of this. For the people that don't know, what's happening in powerlifting, what's happening with transgender, uh, categories in, in that sport?
- ZTZack Telander
So this was specific to the, uh, CPC, Canadian Powerlifting Com- Commission, or some- some- I forget what the name of the actual federation was but it had to, it was in Canada. Um, and that happened. Uh, the, the woman, uh, the trans- trans woman, Andress I think was her last name, or, uh, and so sh- she wiped the floor, especially in the bench press. Um, and then, uh, there was the, one of the head coaches of the Canadian powerlifting team when they went to IPF Worlds, so the International Powerlifting Federation Worlds, he did a massive troll of this rule which, which stated, at the time, it stated whatever you determine you are, you are.
- CWChris Williamson
Self ID.
- ZTZack Telander
Yes, that is it. And it was th- at the time it was pretty much the loosest form of this, although I think in skateboarding they've been doing it, you know, things that aren't officially e- either Olympic sports or world champion sanctioned sports with like WADA and things like that.
- CWChris Williamson
They've recognized self ID for gender category determination.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm. So i- for a sport that's like has a pretty decent world federation, this was a, a pretty crazy rule, and this guy went and trolled it. And he did a hun- like he, for him, this bench press was pretty low. Like 160 kilos for a strong, strong bencher is really not hard. Like I, I know guys that can do sets of five with that. And again, this is like so far above the average human being it's ridiculous. He goes up and does 160 kilos and the next nearest to him I think was like 105.
- CWChris Williamson
So d- just to be clear-
- ZTZack Telander
105. He also-
- CWChris Williamson
This is the coach, one of the coaches, of the Canadian powerlifting team, female powerlifting team?
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, just team.
- CWChris Williamson
Right, okay.
- ZTZack Telander
Men and women.
- CWChris Williamson
Of the Canadian powerlifting team, decided bearded, like 200 pounds or more-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, no, like just a man. Just a straight up guy.
- CWChris Williamson
Just a m- a man who said, "I'm a wo-"
- ZTZack Telander
"I'm a woman."
- CWChris Williamson
"... I'm a woman now," decided to take this to the extreme with this particular competition, steps up, puts up a world- what would probably be a world record?
- ZTZack Telander
Uh yeah, for sure.
- CWChris Williamson
By a distance, in terms of bench press.
- ZTZack Telander
Yes, but it, it, because it wasn't a world, it won't be quel- classified as that.
- CWChris Williamson
But had he have been at the Olympics or had he had been somewhere else, he would have been, that would have been a world record that will never ever ever ever be beaten.
- ZTZack Telander
Correct, yes. And, uh, the craziest thing was Andress was on the spotting team for it. She was not moving.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. This was like-
- CWChris Williamson
So if he'd failed, if he'd failed to rep then this person would have had to...
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, the woman who this was kind of pointing at-... uh, at the time and was in the same area. That's why, why this happened. And it's interesting that this, this rule came out. I didn't know that they had done it with, uh, powerlifting 'cause my sport is, uh, Olympic weightlifting and that's what I focus on. They just recently came up with a transgender category. But I didn't know that they did this, but I had been covering what this dude had done, um, and I... It's f- interesting that they're making the rule. But they're probably following suit of what was started by FINA, which is the nationals or the governing swimming organization. They were the first people to produce a, uh, open category. (clears throat)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, what's open?
- ZTZack Telander
Open is the category for trans people who do not, uh, transition before Tanner stage three, which is essentially just puberty. Like, it's essentially it's gonna be, uh, 11 to 13 in females, and let's say 12 to 14 in males, or 11 to 14 in males.
- CWChris Williamson
So am I right in saying that-
- ZTZack Telander
(clears throat)
- 26:53 – 29:22
The Terrible Logic of Extreme Body Positivity
- CWChris Williamson
I'm waiting for the... It'll happen at some point and it'll get laughed out of the room, but there is a... There will be a very extreme body positivity, sort of victim hood, progressive narrative that comes to try and take out success in sports. It's like, so why is it that the thinnest people are the ones that get to do gymnastics? Like, who is it that actually says that these standards of being able to do a back flip are the best in gymnastics? Who actually says that grace, uh, or the- the quickest one. Because I notice that when I look at the line of the 100 meters finals, that's not a very diverse set of bodies that we've got up there. You know, I- I do think that you're going to see like some insane, uh, ridiculous person trying to push this narrative. Uh, but Lizzo unfortunately, uh, is not doing her part for the body positive community. 'Cause d'you see this story about her making dancers eat bananas out of the vaginas of...
- ZTZack Telander
Strippers and...
- CWChris Williamson
In Amsterdam, and then body shaming them all and doing all the rest of it?
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. You know, I- I, it's a... I think Tim Dillon and Joe Rogan talked about this, and Tim had a really good point. It was like, L- Lizzo kind of went on and hired people to be her dancers that aren't professional dancers, you know. Like they're- they're- they're good, you know, and then they're plus-sized. And the point was, "I wanna prove that, you know, these people can be in show- show business as well." And what happened was, there was a- a line of problems that followed up on it. And then, uh, I think someone tried to record her, uh, like being abusive. And then she threatened to like, lock the doors and figure out who it was. But yeah, I- I- I gotta be honest with you, man. I can't... I couldn't care less about Lizzo, uh, and the, and- and the things that she does, to be fair. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, if you think that that woman was ever being genuinely like pro-body positivity, I don't think that you're a particularly good judge of- of people. Like Ellen DeGeneres, I know that there was all of this news that came out about her and how mean she was and stuff like that. She didn't ever seem like anyone to me that wasn't just a performative mouthpiece for what she thought would make her likable. And Lizzo-
- ZTZack Telander
Or make- make her money.
- CWChris Williamson
Make her money, yeah-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... which included being- being likable.
- 29:22 – 43:01
Is Watching Porn Considered Cheating?
- CWChris Williamson
All right, next thing that I wanna talk to you about. Do you think that watching porn constitutes cheating?
- ZTZack Telander
Mm. This is a good one. Um...
- CWChris Williamson
Let me give you some more context.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And you can ponder on that question along with everybody else.
- ZTZack Telander
Was there a study?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, a woman explains why she made her husband look away when Florence Pugh appeared in Oppenheimer. Apparently there is a raunchy sex scene throughout Oppenheimer, and this lady, West Virginia TikToker Jordan Kerr has revealed that there's one scene her husband didn't watch while they were enjoying the mu- new movie at the cinemas as he had to close his eyes and rest his head on her shoulder. This is all because she said she suffered betrayal trauma after discovering that he watched porn. One of her female followers had asked if she had any advice for how her and her husband could watch Oppenheimer whilst being fully afraid of the Florence Pugh scene everyone's talking about, and she said that she researched aggressively every single movie that they're going to watch before they watch it, and especially this one. And when the movie came up, he had to place his head on his sh- on her shoulder with his eyes closed, and then she got to tell him......when that scene had finished. Uh, "I went through betrayal trauma 10 months ago after nine years of marriage, 10 years of being in completely monogamous relationship," she said. "I was fully under the belief that he didn't look at other women, he didn't self-pleasure at other women. Porn was the further thing from my mind. I never would have thought or believed that he was using porn, but he was, and I found out about it on September 17th, 2022. That was the hardest day of my life. It was the hardest following weeks and following months of my life. Betrayal trauma has changed me as a person inside and out. It put me through a lot of stress, it put me through a lot of pain, it put me through sickness, it put me through depression, gave me a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety. I've come a long way in healing. I'm still with my husband, and so happy and thankful, I'm proud to say that he's been sober for 10 months. He's been doing all the steps, all the work, everything necessary to not only change and stay sober, reach long-term recovery, but also assure me that he is creating a sel- safe space. He is becoming a trustworthy person, and he is showing me the signs that I need by his actions, his behaviors and his patterns, that he is going in the right direction."
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, yeah, so the, the context is important with that situation for sure. Like, if you're having problems, uh, then yep, uh, both partners should stay away from self-pleasuring and, and porn and, like, look to each other for that. I think that's, uh, gotta be a pretty intuitive response. Um, (clears throat) if the porn is literally taking away from your sex life between you and your partner, then yes, it's, uh, absolutely a problem. And it, and it hasn't, and there's been some, there was like a massive meta analysis, me- meta analysis on this. Do you know which one I'm talking about?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, what-
- ZTZack Telander
It talks about porn use and, um, the relationship to either failed relationships or failed marriages. And it was a huge, huge number.
- CWChris Williamson
What was the out- can you remember what the outcome was?
- ZTZack Telander
It, uh, I mean, it was just the more porn, the less likelihood of the longevity of your, uh... But, but the thing is, the porn could be a result of problems and then it c- it doesn't fix anything.
- CWChris Williamson
Which direction is the correlation arrow going here? Do people that are in bad relationships watch porn, or does porn cause you to have a bad relationship?
- ZTZack Telander
Right. And maybe both are true.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, but I, I, I think, you know, um, it's just all communication. Like, I, I went with my partner to see Oppenheimer. She didn't fucking (laughs) even think twice about the F- Florence Pugh scene. We, she's like, "Oh, Florence Pugh, great actress. Cool." I'm like, "Yeah, cool. Nice tits." She's like-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
... "Yeah. Could you pass the popcorn?"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) With the hole put in the bottom?
- ZTZack Telander
Like, that was it. That movie was fucking amazing, dude. How, how is that the, the part where you're stressing, man? I, I-
- CWChris Williamson
That was the most important, that was the most important part. So what I've got in my head, there's another article here about the same thing from distractify.com. Uh, "After finding out that her husband had an addiction, one woman began documenting her recovery journey and helping other women in her spot on TikTok. Finding out your partner has a drug addiction or drinking problem is one thing, but finding out they are addicted to watching sex, sexually explicit content of other women is a whole different ballpark. How so? Well, it's an addiction that involves betrayal. The partner with the addiction chose to experience and lust over other bodies rather than their partners. When one woman learned her husband had that type of an addiction, she starts documenting on TikTok." So, I'm wondering how many men have been rumbled by a partner who evidently doesn't feel particularly comfortable with it, being sexually open, socio-sexually in evolutionary psychology speak. I bet that she's very low. I think that she's probably got some issues, she said it drove her into anxiety and depression, which probably suggests that she maybe was predisposed to that. Maybe got some self-esteem issues and stuff like that. So she's a perfect cocktail for this to trigger something which is really, really bad in her. I wonder how many men have been caught by that and played the same card that every celebrity for the rest of time when he's been caught cheating has played. "I, I, it's, it's my addiction. It's my pathology." They've pathologized, like, using porn once every couple of nights or once every week-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... in a, an attempt to try and... So I would say, I would give it at least a 50% chance, probably more, probably like a 90% chance, that this guy doesn't have an addiction to porn, that this is his way of making his partner calm down with the thing.
- ZTZack Telander
Was, was it stated in, in the thing that he was addicted? That's, that's-
- CWChris Williamson
It said on, it said on both that he was addicted. But I'm gonna guess that that's self ID.
- ZTZack Telander
Right. But porn addiction is a real thing, and it's really, uh, it's-
- CWChris Williamson
I don't dis- I don't disagree-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... but I think porn addiction, genuine, genuine porn addiction is relatively rare. It's, it's really, really rare actually, especially in a relationship. To be addicted-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- 43:01 – 47:30
Bradley Cooper’s Anti-Semitic Nose Job
- CWChris Williamson
Cooper, the Leonard, uh, Leonard Bernstein family defend an actor over the maestro nose row. So, Leonard Bernstein is in a movie, or he's being played by Bradley Cooper in a movie, and, uh, it attracted some criticism over the size of Cooper's nose, which some social media users said played up to offensive Jewish stereotypes. Bernstein's f- family said they were perfectly fine with Cooper using makeup to amplify his appearance. There has also been criticism that a Jewish actor was not cast to play the West Side Story composer. "Breaks our hearts to see any misrepresentation or u- misunderstandings of Cooper's efforts," wrote Jamie Alexander and Nina Bernstein in a statement posted online. Now, you'll remember recently the, uh, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs movie, uh, started sort of ramping up a little bit of movement. Didn't cast dwarfs for the dwarfs, didn't cast little people, and a lot of dwarf actors had a problem with that, and Hollywood came out and said, "You know, this, it's, it's antiquated. They're like figurative dwarfs. It's a fairy tale." And yet when it suits them, no one that isn't gay can play a gay actor, no one that isn't whatever can play a whatever actor. Uh, I, I think that there's a, a massive asymmetry going on with the selection effect here. Bradley Cooper, I don't know his politics, but he just looks like someone that would probably be a bit right-wing, and I think that that probably doesn't play into it very, very well.
- ZTZack Telander
So the, the dwarfs thing is interesting because, um, Frodo Baggins and, you know, uh, was played by Elijah Wood, uh, and they're halflings. They're literally four feet tall, maybe even smaller than that. And I think the reality was, like, hobbits have the same dimensions as people, and I think dwarves, uh, don't. That's part of their, like, condition. So it's like, okay, well, are we... is it a height thing that we're looking for? Is it, you know... It's a, it is a very weird thing, man. Because on the other side of that, if you had people playing a, uh, an African American person or a Black person and they just wore blackface, that's, that's the worst of it, right?
- CWChris Williamson
It's gonna go badly.
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
But if you were to do the, if you do, to do the reverse, you know, we've got period dramas like, uh, Bridgerton, uh, and other, uh, movies to do with Vikings, uh, series to do with the Middle Ages, and regularly somebody of an ethnic minority that isn't from that era, uh, in that region will be injected into it in an attempt to increase diversity. So, I, I don't know. I, I think that everybody's getting very, very sensitive about characters playing the characters, and I do understand that, for instance with the dwarf thing, I don't imagine there's that many roles for dwarfs in Hollywood, so maybe it's a good idea to actually limit those roles to the people for whom there is a very limited amount of work. But then on the flip side of that, if you say, okay, and if you want to cast somebody who is suffering with Parkinson's to play a Parkinson's patient, that, that, uh, that's gonna go very badly. You're not gonna have a particularly good movie because you're not selecting the best person. So this is why it's interesting. It's interesting because you want to have the best person for the role, but you also, there is a degree of like, well, you know, if this role is for a very specific sort of person and they get pushed to one side, that also kind of doesn't feel fair. And I think this tension is, is what makes it interesting.
- ZTZack Telander
This is definitely unprecedented, right? 'Cause now Hollywood knows that they can, you know, uh, the mob can bitch about prosthetics now, uh, and, and how they can, you know, play up certain stereotypes. Uh, e- but I'm looking right now at an image, and it's Leonard Bernstein next to Bradley Cooper's Leonard Bernstein. Um, there's obviously prosthetics, but there's prosthetic ears, looks like his cheeks a little bit, uh, and the nose. But I wonder if they just didn't do that if it would have made a difference. I don't know. 'Cause part of it's like-
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
... you wanna look like the guy, because if people know who Leonard Bernstein is and they, they recognize his face, well then it's gonna be really important that the person playing him looks like him. Um-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, so you should've got a Bernsteinian lookalike. When Will Smith played Muhammad Ali, he had his ears pinned back 'cause Will Smith's ears stick out way more than Muhammad Ali's do. And, yeah, I, I-
- ZTZack Telander
Wow, I didn't know that.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah, okay. He had his ears pinned back for the movie.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um,
- 47:30 – 50:07
Thoughts on Vivek Ramaswamy’s Republican Candidacy
- CWChris Williamson
here's something else. I just saw this before I was coming on. You've been following this Vivek Ramaswamy guy? Do you know who that is?
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-mm.
- CWChris Williamson
Republican candidate and he is doing a lot of kind of viral talking head moments whether it's on, in on-street interviews or, uh, to the press, and he's a really, really slick talker. Say what you want about politics and his positions on X, Y, and Z, but he's an unbelievably slick talker. It's very, it is very, very, very impressive, and I think he's sort of catching up in the polls and doing all the rest of it. And then I went on his Twitter and he is (laughs) do- 'cause he's young. I think he's 37 or 38, so by far the youngest president ever. Maybe he's like, maybe he's in his 40s or something, but he's like around about that age. And his debate prep, he always uploads videos of him doing debate prep, and it's this video of him absolutely hammering forehand strokes, forehand baseline strokes with his top off in the sunshine, and the guy is in good condition. And I'm like, "What (laughs) , what world is this?" And there's another one, he's, uh, like three hours of debate prep today or whatever, and then there's another one of him with his top off doing burpees with his partner.
- ZTZack Telander
Whoa.
- CWChris Williamson
It's really, it's really interesting.
- ZTZack Telander
That be a... That's a big change from, uh, old Grandpa Joe.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
You know, to just-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, Trump. Trump, the guy that said-
- ZTZack Telander
... thunderous-
- CWChris Williamson
The guy that said that you have a, a, a particular number of heartbeats and if you train, if you exercise, it uses up your heartbeats more quickly.
- ZTZack Telander
That's, is that what Trump said?
- CWChris Williamson
I'm pretty sure he said that. Or maybe I-
- ZTZack Telander
Oh my God.
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe it's a lie that I heard. I don't know.
- ZTZack Telander
That's incredible. (laughs) But the dude's just hammering thunderous forehands on the baseline.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
That's so sick.
- CWChris Williamson
It's impressive.
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Do you see that, uh, Trump has bowed out of the Republican, uh, uh, initial debate, whatever the first, like, GOP debate is, and he's gonna livestream with Tucker Carlson on Twitter instead, at the same time.
- ZTZack Telander
Wow. Okay, so, so, uh, and that's go- y- so, well, X actually is what it's called now?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Um, oh man, that's gonna be... How many views? I mean, doe- is, doesn't Twitter get the most views of anything right now?
- CWChris Williamson
It does, but it's because the criteria for getting a view on it is the lowest. It's, you know-
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, gotcha.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a half second scroll past and when you've got autoplay, uh, on a platform, it counts pretty much anyone going past it as a view, which I, I, I don't think is fair. That being said, you can get into the analytics on the backend and see three-second views, 30-second views-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... 60-second views, I think. Um-
- ZTZack Telander
You would just calculate it all watch time, would be-
- 50:07 – 54:28
Californians Are Having Sex in Robot Cars
- CWChris Williamson
robotaxis and nobody is talking about it. Have you ever thought about getting down and dirty in a robotaxi?" All the time. "What, uh, want to light up a cig or a joint on the drive home from the club? You're not alone. As autonomous vehicles have become increasingly popular in San Francisco, some riders are wondering just how far they can push the vehicle's (laughs) limits, especially with no front seat driver or chaperone to discourage them from questionable behavior. From some, that's a welcome imitation to test, uh, invitation to test the auto- autonomous vehicle's limits. Megan, a woman in her 20s, took her first robotaxi on a recent late-night excursion. It was also her first time having sex in a driverless vehicle." Just gonna pause there. What do you mean it was also her first time having sex in a driverless vehicle? Like, that's a rare thing.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, that's not everyone-
- ZTZack Telander
It's gonna be everyone's first, my man.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Right, okay. So-
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, "The Standard is not providing exact dates of the riders' debauchery to protect their privacy, but has verified the rides took place through documentation." Okay, so I'm glad that they've been fact-checked on whether or not this happened. "'We got in and just got straight to it, making out,' said Megan, who got into the cruise wearing nothing but a robe. 'One thing led to another and he made sure I was taken care of, if you will. I was like, 'I have no underwear on and I'm ready to go in this kimono.' And I was using his slippers that were five sizes too big.'" This sounds awful. You have-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
You, you, have you ever tried to have sex in a car that's probably of the size, size of this autonomous vehicle is?
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, no.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- ZTZack Telander
No.
- CWChris Williamson
I lost my virginity in a VW Lupo, which is-
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... increased the difficulty-
- ZTZack Telander
That's such-
- CWChris Williamson
M-
- ZTZack Telander
I'm sorry, but that is, get more of a UK car to have sex-
- CWChris Williamson
Hey, be more, be more British.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, be more British. You can't. There's no way.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah, let me tell you, man. Like, if you don't know what you're doing, not knowing what you're doing in a car is way harder.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, so I've seen those autonomous vehicles driving around.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, in Austin. Uh, so every time I see one, I have to take a picture of it going by. It's f- it's crazy to me still. It's gonna be crazy for-
- CWChris Williamson
What, in case somebody's, in case somebody's getting butt-fucked in the back seat?
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs) Yeah, well, you know, that would be, uh, butt-fucked in the back seat of a robotaxi. That's gonna be my romance novel.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
Um, speaking of romance novels.
- 54:28 – 1:05:10
Zack’s Trip to Japan & Korea
- CWChris Williamson
and what was it like being there?
- ZTZack Telander
Oh man, Japan was incredible. Um, the, the best way to describe Japan is one moment that I had, and it was, it was, we all stopped when we saw it and we're like, "Okay, wow, this is Tokyo." At least Tokyo. We didn't venture outside of it, but this is when we realized, like, "Wow, this is what Japan is about." This woman's walking her dog and the dog lifts a leg up-... to take a piss on, like, this post. It's kind of like this barricade blocking this- this, uh, uh, causeway where it's only walking, and she takes out her water bottle that isn't... It's a, it's a literal water bottle that, like, it's like a Dasani basically, with a spray bo- top on it, and she sprays down where the dog pissed. I have never seen anything like that. There is no litter or garbage anywhere. There are hardly any bins for throwing things away. Um, the engineering of something as simple as an elevator everywhere I went was ridiculous. So it's like, you get in the elevator, you press where you're going, and then you're moving and you're like, "Wait a minute, did we start moving?" And then- and then the door opens. It's like, "Did- how did we stop moving?" You can't feel it. That's how good the engineering is. It's like the process of being an engineer for an elevator must be so robust, the- the process... Right? I got a cup of coffee at the place next to our Airbnb, got into my elevator that felt like a fucking spaceship. It was like (vocalizes) got down, opened it up, took a left, went right into- to get my coffee. This guy made the greatest latte, and I- I vlogged about it, and people were freaking out. Made the greatest latte ever. He measured out the ice cu- he, like, literally put the c- cup on a scale. He had different spoons so that spoons wouldn't touch different of his ground up beans. It- this process, and he was going pretty fast. It took like two, three, four minutes to make, but I filmed the whole thing, and it was the greatest latte I've ever had, and he didn't even think about it. He just handed it to me, he goes, "There you go," and like, looked away. I'm like, bro, if I was handing this to someone, I'd be like, "Yeah, bitch, you're gonna like this thing." You know?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
'Cause I'm an American. I'm gonna be like, "Yeah, I just killed that thing right there. You gotta tell me how good it is, how good I did." That's just h- their culture is just, find things that are interesting or- or good and just be the fucking best at it and don't talk about it. Uh-
- CWChris Williamson
You know that the, uh, the world champion barista, the current title holder, at least the title holder in 2021, for a couple of years was Japanese. So I think that they have-
- ZTZack Telander
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... an unbelievably strong coffee culture. Um-
- ZTZack Telander
And whiskey culture too.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yo, do you remember that whiskey that we had when we went for-
- ZTZack Telander
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... sushi at, uh-
- ZTZack Telander
I love this story-
- CWChris Williamson
... Soto?
- ZTZack Telander
... 'cause we went (laughs) ... We got the be- some of the best sushi I've ever had. Um, and I did go to Japan. I probably had better sushi there. But the- we're not drinking at this... It's like a Tuesday, we didn't want to drink. So they come by after and they're like, "Hey, does anyone want whiskey?" And we're like, "No, no, no, no, no." He comes back, uh, uh, our- our waiter comes back and he- he's like, "So this whiskey was- has been ranked number one in the world for the past 15 years. We had to put our names in two years ago to get a bottle of it," and then me and you look at it, we're like, "Well, now that you mention it..."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) I'm gonna say no.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. Yeah, of course I'm gonna have some whiskey now. It was literally the best whiskey we could have had.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, so yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, there's a wait list. They only issue 50 bottles of this around the world each year. It goes to VIPs who know the, da-da-da-da-da, batch, small batches, all that shit.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, yeah, and then talk to me about, 'cause I've never been to either, talk to me about Japan and Korea. Like-
- ZTZack Telander
So, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
... what was the movement between the two like?
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, so the f- the flight to Korea, I think it's like an hour and 40 minute flight, super easy. Seoul Airport, which, or Incheon Airport is amazing. I think that I liked the Korean food and Korean culture more than I expected to. It's definitely some place where I want to go back, for sure. Uh, the people and- and the traditional culture, it is a pretty conservative culture there. Like, you- you're not really (laughs) allowed to be gay there, I don't think. Like, it's- it's not quite Turkey level. There's obvi-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
It's like, yeah, it's like, uh, a little bit too much here, guys. But I, um, the- the food was like incredible. It was incredible. It was probably my favorite food I've ever, ever had in any, like, period. It was so good.
- CWChris Williamson
Do they do Korean barbecue out there? Or is it-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- 1:05:10 – 1:10:11
British Drinking Culture
- CWChris Williamson
But yeah, man, I don't know. I- I wonder what people from Korea and Japan think when they come to the UK. Like, look at me coming from one of the larriest, most binge drinking cultures on the planet, going, "These Asian people-"
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"... drinking a lot." Like-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, no, Chris-
- CWChris Williamson
They're thirsty.
- ZTZack Telander
I'm sorry if... Dude, I did a seminar. This is also part of my trip. I did a seminar in- in Sunderland, but I was staying in Newcastle.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Literally on that street that you used to work on.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, for the people-
- ZTZack Telander
I have-
- CWChris Williamson
For the people who know Newcastle, he was staying just behind Avika, just down the hill from Luvalo.
- ZTZack Telander
It was... I have never seen nightlife like that. It was the loudest, and dude, it was people of all ages. There were like 40-year-olds getting... oh my God, they were getting shit-faced and screaming. Uh, it was nuts. That was binge drinking like I have never really seen. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Well, it- it's almost treated like a competitive sport.
- ZTZack Telander
For sure. For sure, yes. I don't see that, like you do not see that in Austin. You don't.
- CWChris Williamson
No. No, well I guess-
- ZTZack Telander
Nowhere.
- CWChris Williamson
I don't know. We- we go, we go on 6th Street sometimes, like if we- if we're going to see comedy and stuff, and sometimes there's...
- ZTZack Telander
But even there, it's not that aggressive, man. It's not.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I suppose you are right. If you've got some bachelorette party-
- ZTZack Telander
People are-
- CWChris Williamson
... in from Nashville wearing pink lighter-
- ZTZack Telander
They're having fun, you know. Like I feel like the people in Newcastle are like, "Oh fuck, it's Friday. Let's blackout." Like let's... I mean it...
- CWChris Williamson
Did you ever used to have that? Because I remember when-
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, we did. We did.
- CWChris Williamson
I was like 20.
- ZTZack Telander
Now- now that I say that, those words have literally come out of- out of my mouth when I was younger, so.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, "It's Friday, let's- let's fuck ourselves up."
- ZTZack Telander
"Let's blackout." Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. There was this thing, and this was one of the big, uh, changes that I had when I did sobriety, I went from having a Friday afternoon itch, which was this compulsion, this desire...... to party. Like, I just wanted to- to go out and get fucked up, and even if it wasn't get fucked up, I just wanted to go out. Like, I'd got to the end of the week and I'd conditioned myself into, "Okay, it's a Friday. I've worked hard this week. Therefore, it's time to go out and party." And even if you take it moderately, it- it- it... a moderate session in the UK is still gonna be eight drinks, right? Plus, probably. And yeah, I... (laughs) It was every single week. You get to Friday afternoon and there's this... it's like when you know that you want a coffee, but for a beer.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. The... dude, all I can say is there are certain cu... like, the music industry, which I've tapped into a bit in Austin, it's like the excitement of Friday happens every night. That's when it gets really scary. Like, you get... you wouldn't expect it, but like, your boys have a show at, you know, somewhere on 6th Street or somewhere on West 6th Street or Rainey or whatever, and you end up showing up, and they're killing, and it's fun, and everyone's dancing. And then they- their set ends and they wanna party now 'cause they- everyone's happy. It's like-
- 1:10:11 – 1:17:10
The Real Lifestyle of a DJ
- CWChris Williamson
between being a producer and being a DJ, or by being a, uh, a musician who plays gigs and a musician that makes music-
- ZTZack Telander
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
... um, because if you're just there to be a soundtrack to the party, there's an upper bound on how existentially connected people are gonna feel to you, right? They're not like... you're not changing their life. You might give them a really great event or whatever, and you might even get famous off the back of it, but it's totally different to being someone who-
- ZTZack Telander
Man.
- CWChris Williamson
... produces music that they listen to on the way to the gym or after they've had a breakup, or that helps them to understand that they were, you know, that they were alone as a child or whatever.
- ZTZack Telander
I cannot... I cannot recommend this documentary enough. It is the Avicii documentary, um, a- because that is what killed him. Uh, ultimately, I believe that's what killed the man, was, uh, there- there was this... a- a brilliant scene where he's arguing with his manager and he goes, "Hey man, I'm- I'm not doing Vegas. I'm not doing the residency in Vegas." And he's like, "I kinda signed you up for it." And he's like, "I don't fucking care. I'm not fucking doing it. I'm quitting. I'm not gonna DJ anymore. I am not doing Vegas." Smash cut. (singing)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Oh God.
- ZTZack Telander
He's in fucking Vegas doing it.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- ZTZack Telander
And then it... they- they had a show counter on it, and it was like, first, it was like, first 20 shows, he's fucking loving it, and it gets up to like, 570 shows (laughs) uh, in like, less... I mean, it was literally maybe a day off flying from... he would tour and then he would have his residency that he would fly back to. So the off days, he was doing a residency.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, and that was it right there. Um, in this day and age in music, you- you... this is content now. It's algorithm based. So you can get big and famous from the comfort of your own home. You produce content and you can get it out through social media. It's not about radio plays. It's not about... 'cause Avicii came up through blogs. I don't know... uh, where blogs were like, uh... I don't know if you remember any of those- those blogs that we used to get music off of. Um, but they would promote these- these DJs, and that's how they got big, and then they would gig, like crazy. But now there's... Spotify is algorithmic. You have a good enough song that goes well on TikTok, it becomes algorithmic. It'll bounce around. You can stay home. And it sucks that a guy like that missed that. He didn't get a chance to hit that. And this life that he lived was not the life that he wanted, uh, and he- he paid the ultimate price for it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, dude, that's sad. Um-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. I love that documentary, and anyone who's listening-
- CWChris Williamson
I've still never seen it.
- ZTZack Telander
... like, absolutely-
- CWChris Williamson
I've still never seen it.
- ZTZack Telander
... absolutely watch it. Definitely.
- CWChris Williamson
All right.
- ZTZack Telander
Like, I care (...)
- CWChris Williamson
So, I mean, I've- I've told you this story before, but, uh, it happened on the podcast, p- fucking hell, four years ago? Uh, but Kosi, right? So-
- ZTZack Telander
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, Krzysztof.
- ZTZack Telander
Our boy, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Mutual fr- mutual friend of ours who's played for m- DJed for me for 15 years. And he told me this story on the podcast, which you can go back and list- listen to. It's like four years old. It was really great.It's an insight into the life of a touring DJ. I think it was a Wednesday or a Thursday, and he was in Argentina, and the next time that he was going to get to sleep in a bed that wasn't in the air was Tuesday. So it was, uh, almost a full week of sleeping on planes or in airport-
- ZTZack Telander
Sprinter vans or...
- CWChris Williamson
... lounges or, yeah-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... in, in, in vans or whatever. Um, this is a guy who has played Madison Square Garden supporting Eric Prydz. He's got a residency this summer at, uh, Hi Ibiza. I think it's every Tuesday with Adam Beyer, uh, and maybe Prydz there as well, or maybe Hot Since 82 or something. As big as it gets before you get to absolute, like, insane superstar, like, Ed Sheeran of dance level. And, you know, from the outside it looks really glamorous, but he told me the story, and he hadn't been sleeping all that much, and he'd been, like, drinking and partying and stuff like that throughout his shows. And then he had this period, and he got back and he couldn't sleep, even though he was, like, super, super tired. And he was watching shopping channels like QVC and, and live TV shopping for some reason, and he couldn't work out why. And then he says he kind of blacks out, he d- he has this blank spot in his memory. Then he came to at the local supermarket that's 24 hours, it's across the street from where my house, uh, just down the street from where my house is in Gosforth in Newcastle. And he came to, and he was sat on the floor of the toiletries aisle, and he had one of every different type of hair gel and hair putty laid out around him on the floor. And he was taking little bits of it and putting it on his head, scooping his hand in, and, like, slapping it on his head. And he had this thought in his head, like, "Yeah, my hair's shit. Like, I need to try all of these different things." So he's putting it on his head, and then he sort of comes to out of this sort of fever dream and looks around, and he's like, "What am I, what am I doing here?" Stands up, grabs a floret of broccoli, 48 dishwasher tablets, and walks out without paying for them. Gets home and wakes up the next day to find hundreds, hundreds of parcels arriving at his front door for, like, little five-year-old girls crop tops, and toys, and lawnmower accessories, and, uh, like, an inflatable pool. Uh, all of these different things. And he'd just had a, like a small psychotic break.
- ZTZack Telander
Wow.
Episode duration: 1:27:31
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode AAgK43saR3c
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome