Zuby | Strength, Faith and Survival Tactics

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   ... on my Twitter…

   1. ZUZuby0:00

      ... on my Twitter account, @zubymusic. I posted up a nine-second video of me doing a deadlift in the gym. I was lifting 230 kilograms. It's actually well below my maximum, but I just, uh, had a clip of me doing it on my phone. And I posted it up with a caption saying, "I keep hearing about how there's no biological difference between men and women in 2019, so watch me destroy the British women's deadlift record without trying." And then I wrote, "P.S. I identified as a woman while lifting the weight, so don't be a bigot." And this tweet caught absolute fire. It went hyper viral. It's got 1.7 million views on the original video. I think it got about 55,000 likes and 20-something thousand retweets. It just went nuts. It went viral in the UK, in Canada, in America, i- in Europe (laughs) , like all, all over the world.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:52

      I am joined by the strongest female deadlift champion on the internet. Zuby, welcome to the show.

   3. ZUZuby0:59

      How's it going, Chris? How you doing?

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00

      Fantastic to have you on, man. Recently spoke to Brian Carroll, who is a multiple record holder in powerlifting for men, and now speaking to one for women as well.

   5. ZUZuby1:09

      That's right, man. Deadlift and bench press, 84 kg weight class. Women's, of course.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:14

      How heavy is the squat? What have you got to get your squat to?

   7. ZUZuby1:17

      Man, I haven't squatted properly for, for ages because of, uh, an injury that's been harassing me for literally about five years now. But, uh, my personal best on the squat is 190 and I believe the women's record in my weight class is about 210, something like that.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:32

      A little bit of work and you've got the total as well (laughs) .

   9. ZUZuby1:35

      Yeah, man. I, I think, I think I could do it. I could def- can completely annihilate the deadlift and the bench press ones.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:41

       (laughs) .

   11. ZUZuby1:41

       But, um, the squat'll take a little bit of work.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:43

       I got you. Uh, so for everyone who's listening who doesn't have a clue what we're talking about, can you take us through what's, what's happened over the last few months of your life?

   13. ZUZuby1:52

       Yeah. The last few months have been quite the whirlwind. So, um, going back to February now, at the end of February, on my Twitter account, @zubymusic, I posted up a nine-second video of me doing a deadlift in the gym. I was lifting 230 kilograms, which is 500 and something pounds. Um, it's actually well below my maximum, but I just, uh, had a clip of me doing it on my phone. And I posted it up with a caption saying, "I keep hearing about how there's no biological difference between men and women in 2019, so watch me destroy the British women's deadlift record without trying." Uh, and then I wrote, "P.S. I identified as a woman while lifting the weight, so don't be a bigot."

   14. CWChris Williamson2:31

       (laughs) .

   15. ZUZuby2:31

       And this tweet caught absolute fire. It went hyper viral. It's got 1.7 million views on the original video. I think it got about 55,000 likes and 20-something thousand retweets. It just went nuts. It went viral in the UK, in Canada, in America, i- in Europe (laughs) , like all, all over the world. Um, and then newspapers and media started picking up on it. It was covered by Fox News, The Daily Wire, Sky News, BBC, um, a whole bunch of different outlets, and then a bunch of podcasts such as Louder With Crowder, The Ben Shapiro Show, um, and the one that really catalyzed a few things, which was The Joe Rogan Experience. Yeah. So it just, uh, it just went bonkers. At the time I tweeted it, I had 17,000 followers. And, uh, as of this week, I'm the proud owner of over 100... Well, I don't wanna say owner. I'm the proud, uh...

   16. CWChris Williamson3:27

       (laughs) .

   17. ZUZuby3:27

       What's the, what's the, what's the right term?

   18. CWChris Williamson3:29

       I think it's owner.

   19. ZUZuby3:30

       Is it owner?

   20. CWChris Williamson3:30

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   21. ZUZuby3:31

       Okay. Yeah. Well, I have over 100,000 Twitter followers now. So it's increased just crazily this year, as well as my, my YouTube audience and my podcast audience and my music listeners. Everything I do has just, um, exploded. It was a real catalyst for everything I do, which is awesome, but also kind of ridiculous.

   22. CWChris Williamson3:49

       (laughs) Yeah, no. This kind of real asymmetry with viral content and stuff like that is a... it's a real blessing when you get it right. And what's hilarious is the fact that this is you working up to like an RP7.

   23. ZUZuby4:04

       (laughs) .

   24. CWChris Williamson4:04

       That's like, that's like, that's like a comfortable 75% pull. Um, I don't know whether anyone's discussed this yet, but we have, we've had a number of debates on the podcast about whether pulling sumo is cheating or not.

   25. ZUZuby4:16

       No, it's not.

   26. CWChris Williamson4:17

       Sumo's not cheating?

   27. ZUZuby4:18

       It's not, it's, it's not even easier for everybody.

   28. CWChris Williamson4:20

       Well, there we go. We've heard it, we've heard it here first.

   29. ZUZuby4:21

       I, I mean if it were e- if it were easy, when people say it's easier, I'm like, "Then why don't you pull it?"

   30. CWChris Williamson4:26

       (laughs) Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yep. …

   1. ZUZuby15:00

      seen people try to argue that, um, the reason why men are physically stronger and faster is because of socialization.

   2. CWChris Williamson15:06

      Yep.

   3. ZUZuby15:06

      And if- if, um- if girls were raised differently and boys were raised differently, they'd be equally strong. And, you know, just when people say these things, I'm- I'm just kind of looking at them blankly, like, what? Like...

   4. CWChris Williamson15:20

      It's a bit like-

   5. ZUZuby15:21

      I-

   6. CWChris Williamson15:22

      It reminds me a lot of The Emperor's New Clothes-

   7. ZUZuby15:24

      It is.

   8. CWChris Williamson15:24

      ... this kind of situation.

   9. ZUZuby15:25

      It is.

   10. CWChris Williamson15:26

       Um, I- I- mercifully, and I w- don't know if you agree, the UK, to me, seems to be at least a little bit more attached to reality than America. Now, I don't know if that's simply because most of the big publishing, uh, and social commentator platforms are coming from America-

   11. ZUZuby15:48

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson15:48

       ... um, that you hear people like Loud With Crowder or Joe Rogan or Gavin McInnes or whoever it might be talking about these issues.

   13. ZUZuby15:54

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CWChris Williamson15:55

       Um, I- I haven't been personally exposed to any of it in the UK. I'm, you know, potentially.

   15. ZUZuby15:59

       Oh, okay.

   16. CWChris Williamson16:00

       Potentially.

   17. ZUZuby16:00

       Oh, I- I've- I've seen a lot of it here.

   18. CWChris Williamson16:02

       Really?

   19. ZUZuby16:03

       Mm-hmm.

   20. CWChris Williamson16:03

       Is that internet or real life?

   21. ZUZuby16:05

       Both.

   22. CWChris Williamson16:06

       Wow. Okay.

   23. ZUZuby16:06

       I mean, even in- even in the world of music.

   24. CWChris Williamson16:09

       Okay.

   25. ZUZuby16:09

       Right? Because I've seen this in the world of music. I mean, a couple of weeks ago, I was filling out a form and, um, it got to the section where they compile, you know at the end of when you fill out a form and they ask you for your gender and ethnicity and that kind- I can- I can't remember what they call it, that kind of information?

   26. CWChris Williamson16:29

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ZUZuby16:30

       Okay. I got to the gender section and there were about six different options in the dropdown list, or you could put other and write your own thing, and there was a little asterisk saying gender is not the same as sex. Gender is whatever you personally feel or identify as, okay? Uh, I've seen that before. I get down to ethnicity, and you can pick your own ethnicity too, all right? This is on like a professional form. And so, it says, yeah, similar- similar wording, ethnicity is not the same as race or skin color. It's- doesn't- it's not necessarily linked to your nationality or your origin. Ethnicity is defined as what you personally feel and what you personally identify as. So according to this form, I could write down that I'm a Native American woman-

   28. CWChris Williamson17:20

       (laughs)

   29. ZUZuby17:21

       ... and everybody is supposed to take that 100% seriously. Um, and, you know, stuff like that, it's just... And- and, you know, there- there's- there's lots of other things that I've seen. But yeah, I mean, that was in the UK. That was UK-based, um...

   30. CWChris Williamson17:36

       Wow.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   (laughs) …

   1. ZUZuby30:00

      to get me to say that it equals five, I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna say, "No, it equals four. I don't care how many people are telling me it equals five, um, it equals four." And the point that he made was actually im- quite important because we were talking about certain lines not being crossed, and I think two of those lines which are sensitive, um, which are both things we've touched on here, one of them is when it comes to-... uh, people's safety and security. Okay? So for example, in the, in the whole sports thing, okay? So if you've got, um, in, uh, in any sort of physical contact sport or anything like that, if you have people who are biological men competing against women, or being in their changing rooms and stuff like that, that's, that's a safety and a security concern that you would have thought that, you know, anyone who considers themself any type of ... (laughs) You don't even need to be a feminist, right? But you w- you would have certainly thought that the, the fem- lots of the feminists would be up in arms about that. And I know some of them are. Um, but just, just any person who's reasonable and is concerned for women would be like, "Okay, mm, we, we don't wanna do that. That's, that's a bit of a concern." Um, and then the second line that I draw a hard line at is stuff involving kids, man. Stuff involving children. You know, I've got ... I'm not a parent yet, but I've got nine nieces and nephews, and he was specifically talking about a three-year-old. Okay? Three-year-olds don't know anything. (laughs)

   2. CWChris Williamson31:25

      (laughs)

   3. ZUZuby31:25

      Three, three-year-olds can't make decisions, let alone life-altering ones-

   4. CWChris Williamson31:30

      Yeah.

   5. ZUZuby31:30

      ... um, that'll affect everything from their mental well-being, to their physical bodies, to their ability to reproduce in the future. You wanna let someone decide that at the age of three? That is crazy. So, and that's basically what he was saying. He didn't even say it in all the word- words that I am.

   6. CWChris Williamson31:47

      Yeah.

   7. ZUZuby31:48

      But, um ...

   8. CWChris Williamson31:48

      Yeah.

   9. ZUZuby31:49

      That's, that's a crazy idea. That's not ... That's ... Yeah, I mean, I, I don't even (laughs) I don't even have the words for it. It's one of those things I-

   10. CWChris Williamson31:57

       Well, I mean, s- so my, my business partner has a two-month-year-old and a two and a half year old.

   11. ZUZuby32:02

       Okay.

   12. CWChris Williamson32:02

       And the times that I see that two and a half year old, he is easily five different characters an hour.

   13. ZUZuby32:11

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson32:11

       He's an astronaut, then he's a postman-

   15. ZUZuby32:13

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson32:13

       ... then he's, then he's a dinosaur, then he's doing something else, then he's doing an impression of Daddy, then he's this, that, and the other, and you don't take any of these things seriously.

   17. ZUZuby32:21

       No.

   18. CWChris Williamson32:22

       Because at that age, children don't know what's best for them, which is the exact reason why the parents are around.

   19. ZUZuby32:28

       Mm-hmm.

   20. CWChris Williamson32:28

       Now, the parents are around because if left to their own devices, the children would cause some sort of catastrophe. They'd ride the, they'd ride the dog into a, a stream-

   21. ZUZuby32:37

       (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson32:37

       ... or they'd ... You know what I mean? Something, something would go wrong. But, but, uh-

   23. ZUZuby32:39

       Th- they'll, they'll, they'll kill themselves, man. If you leave the average two-year-old alone for a couple of h- for an hour, uh, in a certain environment-

   24. CWChris Williamson32:46

       Yeah.

   25. ZUZuby32:46

       ... they will kill themselves, man.

   26. CWChris Williamson32:47

       There is something dangerous in that room. Even if you've nerfed the shit out of everything-

   27. ZUZuby32:51

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson32:51

       ... there's something in there that they can eat or, uh, put in their eye or do whatever it is. Um, you're totally right. And-

   29. ZUZuby32:58

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson32:59

       ... to hear ... Is it child abuse? Is it child abuse to allow children to make those sort of decisions or to support those sort of decisions?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. ZUZuby45:00

      and in media, who, one, tell me that I'm extremely brave (laughs) for being as honest and frank as I am. But then, two, say that, oh, they can't speak out because they're worried about losing their job or they're worried about losing this opportunity or all this kind of stuff. And it's just, it's crazy. I mean, we're supposed to be in a free country with free speech and freedom of expression, uh, both in the UK and in the USA. So the f- idea that people are essentially succumbing to a form of terrorism, as far as... It's, it's terrorism, isn't it? Right? If you're, you know, making people com- so afraid of their repercussions to, to say what's on their mind or to express their genuine beliefs or whatever, because you're, you're terrorizing them and, you know, you're, you're making examples out of other people to so- to show what'll happen if they step out of line.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:49

      Mm-hmm.

   3. ZUZuby45:49

      That's, it's terrorism. It's literally-

   4. CWChris Williamson45:51

      It's the, it's the heads on spikes as you go into the -

   5. ZUZuby45:54

      Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, yeah. Literally, yeah. Literally, it is. It is.

   6. CWChris Williamson45:56

      Mario's head is currently sat on a spike outside of, outside of the TV studio. And the worst thing, you made a really good point about the fact that it dilutes down the people who are actually the problem, and it also doesn't allow those of us who have compassion... Um, my, my empathy is crippling. Like, absolutely crippling for almost anything. I spoke about Daniel Sloss, the comedian, with this. And we said that, you know you see those videos of dogs coming home to soldiers, like, after they've been at war? And I'm just, like, bawling my eyes out at these things.

   7. ZUZuby46:27

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson46:27

      And I can't be- But the, the problem is that if you do want to have compassion and, um, try and understand complex situations and someone who is going through gender dysphoria, someone who has suffered with racism, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, it's like, to be able to, to be able to step into that room and try and understand that, you also have to do all this other stuff as well. You're like, "Right, I'm gonna have to put this bag on and this bag on and this bag on." And yeah, it's, it's not very, it's not very helpful. So, I think you're right. It'll be interesting to see how many more Mario Lopezes there are and how many more Zhoobies there are-

   9. ZUZuby47:05

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson47:05

       ... over the next, like, five years. You know what I mean?

   11. ZUZuby47:07

       Yeah, yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson47:07

       Like, that's, that's gonna be interesting. And because of the way that popular culture defines and it trickles down into defining what everybody else thinks, it's not actually gonna take lots of those situations to occur to actually begin defining culture, like, ahead of it.

   13. ZUZuby47:27

       Yeah, that's true.

   14. CWChris Williamson47:27

       I think that, you know, a lot of those situations can be like the stone in the river that directs the flow a little bit.

   15. ZUZuby47:32

       Mm-hmm.

   16. CWChris Williamson47:32

       Um, so one of the other things I wanted to discuss is, uh, Titania McGrath. I don't know how to pronounce her name. Titania? Titanium McGrath?

   17. ZUZuby47:40

       Ti- Titania. Titania.

   18. CWChris Williamson47:41

       Titania McGrath.

   19. ZUZuby47:41

       I believe, yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson47:42

       Um, so I have, this is the first time that the listeners will hear it. I've managed to confirm her/her character to come on the podcast.

   21. ZUZuby47:52

       (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson47:52

       Um, my goal, she's currently performing at Edinburgh Fringe, if you are at the Fringe, 9:00 PM every night. I suggest that you go and see it. The show has had fantastic reviews already. Um, what I wanted to do was to get the actress that plays her to sit down-

   23. ZUZuby48:06

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CWChris Williamson48:06

       ... and to have Andrew Doyle, the man who's behind her, as her publicist.

   25. ZUZuby48:11

       Okay.

   26. CWChris Williamson48:11

       And I wanted to have this back and forth, but apparently one of the agreements is that the actress won't, um, won't speak in character on interviews. Which is really, a really good idea.

   27. ZUZuby48:23

       Oh.

   28. CWChris Williamson48:23

       Because, I mean, if people actually begin thinking-

   29. ZUZuby48:25

       (laughs)

   30. CWChris Williamson48:25

       ... that she is her, all hell will break loose. But there was a tweet that came out that is probably the best one I think I've seen her do.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:00:43

   Fantastic. Uh, all links…

   1. ZUZuby1:00:00

      I've also got a merchandise website where you can get my music and merch, which is teamzuby.com.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:05

      Fantastic. Uh, all links to everything that we've spoken about will be, will be in the show notes below. If you've got any comments or any, uh, feedback about today, obviously it's quite a nuanced and interesting conversation, the comments are always open or @chriswillex wherever you follow me. But for now, Zuby, man, thank you so much. Good luck with Joe when you're out in the States and, uh, I'll catch you next time.

   3. ZUZuby1:00:24

      Thanks, bro. I appreciate it. Have a good evening.

   4. NANarrator1:00:30

      (instrumental music playing)

Episode duration: 1:00:43