$2B founder reveals the niches that can make you $$$ (ft. Allison Ellsworth, Poppi)

1. 0:00 – 2:25

   Poppi, brand glow up of the century

   1. AEAllison Ellsworth0:00

      First time we did Super Bowl, let me lay, lay this down for you. We bought the Super Bowl five days before the Super Bowl.

   2. SPShaan Puri0:05

      [laughs]

   3. AEAllison Ellsworth0:07

      Literally. [upbeat music]

   4. SPShaan Puri0:14

      Uh, Sam, you wanna do, like, a intro real quick? [laughs]

   5. SPSam Parr0:16

      Yeah. So you and your husband are f- one of the founders of Poppi, which sold for $2 billion. And I would have to say you probably win the award for brand glow-up, because o- o- one of my favorite things to watch is this old, uh, Shark Tank video of you guys.

   6. AEAllison Ellsworth0:28

      So good.

   7. SPSam Parr0:28

      And the way that it started and the where you are now, that gap is huge. Uh-

   8. SPShaan Puri0:33

      Yeah, what, what was it called originally? Mother's or something?

   9. AEAllison Ellsworth0:37

      Oh, so embarrassing you had to say it out loud. Um, Mother Beverage.

   10. SPShaan Puri0:41

       [laughs]

   11. AEAllison Ellsworth0:41

       And yes, I think it was a glow-up of the century, the best of all time.

   12. SPSam Parr0:45

       What was the story?

   13. AEAllison Ellsworth0:47

       It was just one of those beautiful entrepreneurial American dream stories, where you start in your kitchen because of a personal problem. I had, like, tummy problems with drinking apple cider vinegar. You know, hated the taste and was like, "I c- I have an idea. I can make this taste better." Little did I know how intense beverage is. Looking back, I don't think if I knew what I knew now, I would've done it, and it's... Not knowing is just such a beautiful thing.

   14. SPSam Parr1:13

       But you basically, like, were, were selling something at a farmers market that was kinda curing your own problem, and I think you did that for more than a couple years. And then you hooked up with the guy who kinda like was like, "Hey, this is amazing, but why don't we tinker with the packaging a little bit?" And then you raised a little bit of money, and it was, like, off to the races. It was, like, zero to, like, 20 million to, like, 60 million to, like, 120 or something, like, crazy like that. Was that even... Like, it was-

   15. AEAllison Ellsworth1:39

       Even crazier. I have to kinda ground you just to, like... in timeline. So we did do for, like, two years farmers market. Then went onto Shark Tank, got a deal on Shark Tank, and went through a whole rebrand. And then we decided to launch Poppi March 3rd, 2020, the first week of COVID. And it was, like, the first time everyone's thinking about their heal- health and wellness. It's the first time people are looking at labels and wanting to, like, understand what they're putting your, into your body, and how can I boost my immune system, and all of these things are the conversation. And so that first year we were in market, I think we did about 3 million in revenue, and then the ye- next year was 22, 50. And then the big jump was from 50 to 200 million, and then 500-plus to then be sold. So it's, like, four and a half years to almost $550 million, which is crazy

2. 2:25 – 8:00

   failing into confidence

   1. AEAllison Ellsworth2:25

      growth.

   2. SPSam Parr2:26

      Did you ever feel, uh, imposter syndrome doing that? Because, like, uh, you know, whenever I have a little bit of success, I'm like, "Oh, man. Is this real? Does this... This is wild." But our success was a, a lot slower than yours.

   3. AEAllison Ellsworth2:40

      We were just going so quick, it was hard to even sit back and, and even realize or fathom what was happening, because it was so not normal. Like, people don't understand, like, what h- we had and what growth we had, is not normal. It was truly lightning in a bottle. And so I don't know if there was imposter syndrome, because, like, I'm very confident. We were confident in what we were building, but it wasn't a guarantee, right? And so it's this thing of, like, "Do I celebrate? Well, it's too soon to celebrate." So when we finally sold, it definitely was like, "Wait, what just happened? That was four and a half years, five years of this crazy growth," and I don't think I ever stopped and smelled the roses.

   4. SPShaan Puri3:17

      Did you... You know when, when a, there's, like, a movie, and they always have, like, act one of the movie is the main character, and they're just sorta stumbling and fumbling, and they're j- they're, they're, they're struggling. And then they finally start to figure something out. And act two is always the montage, where things start happening sorta fast and furious, and that's kinda the growth phase that you're describing. But they usually... You know, they, they sorta figure some- one or two things out, right? One or two things start to really work, and then they lean in and double down into those, and it's like the, the things that makes all the other dominoes fall. So for you guys, you're saying timing was obviously beneficial. But what were you guys doing as entrepreneurs or founders? What were the key dominoes that started to fall?

   5. AEAllison Ellsworth3:54

      Yes. We were one of the first founder-led brands to really lean into TikTok. And back then it was the Wild Wild West. And you were doing dances. You were doing recipe videos. You were just, like, literally doing all these, like, fun transition videos. Do you know, like, almost making a fool of yourself to try to go viral? Because I w- I had this, like, personal obsession with TikTok and, and it's funny. I know you guys have had Rohan on. And I remember him being like, "Allison, that's for, like, young kids and dancers. And don't, don't waste time." He wasn't, like, against it by any means, but he... Like, no one really got that platform. And so I was like, "Okay, I'll spend my nights and weekends, and, um, I'll play around on it," until we finally went viral. And we had a lot of success on the platform, and I think it was a really big key driver in why we grew so fast. Because typically, if you're a better for you brand, you blow up in LA, New York, Miami, these, like, major hubs, and then you kinda grow inwardly. But when you grow up with a digital-first mindset within the business from core day one, we had people... Like, I think at one point, one of our top targets was, like, Fargo, North Dakota, and all of these, like, Cincinnati, Ohio, Houston, Texas. And so when you're a true digital-first brand, you can really break through and go to more places quicker. It's like a modern field day marketing-type tactic, right? Do you wanna stand in a Whole Foods and give away 30 samples, or do you wanna, uh, do something and educate and put paid behind it and push your ads out organically to the FYP page and get 300,000 people to see it? And so I think that was a really big thing that really just made us different than other brands. Now everyone's doing it, right? It's, it's part of everyone's, uh, marketing mix. But I think another really big one is we were brand first. So our number-one KPI was brand awareness. How do we truly build a long-lasting generational brand with every ounce of every decision that we did? Down to if we were like, "What should be our variety pack at Costco?" And the data was saying, you know, "It should be root beer, this, uh, cream soda, and cola." And I'd be like, "Well, those colors don't look good together." [laughs]

   6. SPShaan Puri6:03

      [laughs]

   7. AEAllison Ellsworth6:03

      And our buyers would be like, "Wait- What? And I'm like, "No, no, no, it has to be vibrant on the shelf. It has to jump, and people have to..." Right? Every decision that we had was brand first, digital first, and it's easier said than done. I say this like it's, it's common sense, but a lot of people still don't do these things.

   8. SPSam Parr6:18

      You sort of have this energy that I've, I've seen with a lot of my very successful friends, particularly the women, where they basically are like a bull in a china shop, which both men and women are. But you've, like, wrapped it in a much more, uh, like, appealing package where, like, a lot of my friends who are bull in the china shops, they like... I look at them and I'm like, "You're a f- you're a kind of a wreck, but, like, you're probably gonna figure it out." But when I watch your stuff on Instagram, you're very relatable even though that, even though you're crazy successful, and yet you still have this, like, attribute where it's like A is here, B is here, the straight line, and just go, and run as fast as you can.

   9. AEAllison Ellsworth6:57

      Yeah. Well, I think it's confidence. So people ask me all the time like, "Allison, how are you so confident?" I'm confident because I've failed and made a total fool of myself for so many years to kind of figure out what works and how, how to be confident. Like, for example, everyone sees this $1.95 billion exit, but they don't see or remember me standing at a farmers market at a folding table saying, "You wanna try this apple cider vinegar drink?" Like, that's so embarrassing. And so it's this ability of like, I have lived the American dream. I was raised by a single mother. I have kids myself. Like, end of the day, even post-exit, I still have soccer practice tonight I have to go to, and we're in Texas, and it's 100-degree weather. Like, I'm just living life, and I think within it, it was relatable with people online because they saw themselves in me. And then that confidence piece is like, I wasn't always that confident. But I think that I've just allowed myself to share so openly and authentically the entire journey, and so people have kind of seen the journey of me becoming confident as well.

3. 8:00 – 10:22

   behind the scenes of Shark Tank

   1. SPShaan Puri8:01

      How'd you get on Shark Tank? What was the story?

   2. SPSam Parr8:03

      I think the best way to become successful is to see how other people did it, whether you're gonna copy them or just use it as inspiration, because then now you know what's possible. So starting at the age of 24, I did this relentlessly, and I was very methodical about it. And I created a spreadsheet where I tracked roughly 50 people who were uber successful. And I looked at the year that they were born, the year that they started their apprenticeship, and then the year that they started the first thing that made them successful, finally the year that they broke through. And I aggregated all this data along with the stories of what they did to be an apprentice and what they did to finally break through, and I put it together in a database. And HubSpot went and found this thing that I frankly even forgot about, but it did change my life, and they resurfaced it. They made it even better, and they put it into a thing that you can download for free right now. So if you click the link in the description or click the QR code right here, you can see this database that I made when I was 24, and it changed my life. And so if you're looking to become successful or you're already successful and just want some more inspiration, check it out.

   3. AEAllison Ellsworth9:01

      Shark Tank. We love Shark Tank. It's just such a beautiful... Literally, 'cause I've also been on the show, but I've also been a judge on it and seen both sides of the show, and they absolutely want people to get deals. They want people to be successful, and they have such good intention. And so the whole process of it is if you have a good idea and you actually have some kind of proof of concept, you will probably have quite a bit of success on the show. And so for us, it was one of those things that, like, we'd been doing it for a bit. Uh, Mother Beverage at the time, we had done about 500,000 in revenue, and it was that point of like, if we don't get investment, w- we can't sustain this, right? We were working 80 hours a week. We had a kid, a kid on the way. Stephen was working a second job just to pay our mortgage. And you can only be in that rat race for so long, and so Shark Tank was just this beautiful opportunity. So we stood in line, poured our hearts out, and, you know, the producers fell in love with us. And then going on, we were so blessed to have gotten a deal with someone that's so good in beverage, right? Like it's... The things that have happened to us over the years, these doors that have opened, it's, it's just kind of crazy. So we got a deal with Rohan Oza. He had a great history in beverage. Um, and so working with him and building it, but Shark Tank, you know, I don't think any other Shark would've given us a deal.

4. 10:22 – 12:05

   Investing $70M in branding

   1. SPSam Parr10:22

      What was the, uh, w- y- you know, Shaan's in the e-commerce space. We've had a bunch of people in e-commerce. I've not been in it personally, but I've been able to, like, live voyeuristically through these folks. And what it seems is, like, the fastest you f- the faster you grow, the more cash flow sucks in terms of, and inventory management, and there's, like, a lot of, like, issues where, like, the top line number is amazing, but some of the other stuff is kind of breaking. Were you cash flow positive the entire time? Um, and what was that like?

   2. AEAllison Ellsworth10:48

      I don't think we were profitable until, like, right the year before we sold, but it was intentional. I think we could've starved the business and really focused on conversion and how do we really be profitable. But if you are brand building, it's expensive. It's expensive to do a beverage. So every step of the way with the board, the senior leadership, the founders, we were intentionally reinvesting back in the brand and raising the entire time, right?

   3. SPSam Parr11:16

      Was it 40 total?

   4. AEAllison Ellsworth11:17

      I think it was closer to, like, in the 70s.

   5. SPSam Parr11:20

      And you sp- you spent all of it?

   6. AEAllison Ellsworth11:22

      Yeah, absolutely. We bought multiple Super Bowl ads. We're running TV. We are marketing with creators. We are doing pop-ups with 50 Cent, right? Like, all of these big brand-building activities are so different. We aren't a traditional D2C company. We're actually not a D2C company. We were 100% on Amazon from day one, which was a decision we made as a board to do that, and it was such a good decision. But you, you don't make a lot of money on Amazon as a beverage. And so we saw it as a great marketing tactic for awareness because it's in so many households across America. So all of these decisions were intentional, and I think people don't get if you wanna be successful, you have to put your money where your mouth is.

   7. SPShaan Puri12:04

      You,

5. 12:05 – 14:24

   the genius of Rohan Oza

   1. SPShaan Puri12:05

      um, [laughs] you mentioned Rohan. He came on the pod. I was kind of blown away. I thought [laughs] I think that guy's awesome. I've heard about him from a few other people that he's invested with, and he- I think he's kind of a, a, a like bit of a savant with marketing or beverage. I don't know what, I don't know what way to describe it, but this is just me from the outside. I'm curious from the inside. What was something very useful or, um, insightful that he did or, or taught you guys about, or, or helped guide you guys towards?

   2. AEAllison Ellsworth12:30

      You know, I think it's in different stages of the business. In the early days it was the money and the connections, right? I think that if you are taking on capital or any kind of investment and you can't get that network that's actually meaningful network, it's pointless. Because then now you have all this money and you spend it and you don't have... Like, what am I doing here? So he helped us get our first like five hires within his network that were incredible and with us till the exit, right? That was a huge impact on the business. On top of it, he has this, um, woman Stevie he's worked with for 15 years, and he might have mentioned her on the podcast, but she is just brilliant in brand positioning and, and, uh, messaging and she's the one that did all the rebrand with us from Mother to Poppi. So being able to bring that to life really early on allowed us to then focus on the brand. So what I mean is when we were in Mother, we were so focused on putting caps on bottles, I, I couldn't even have thought about what the marketing strategy was. But when we got a deal on Shark Tank, we took nine months off. We went through, we did a rebrand, and we asked ourselves, "Who is this product for? Who is our consumer?" We stepped back, "What are we doing here?" Then we went out and started selling, so then when we were selling, we knew who we were. A lot of brands don't do that work. They're just cons- uh, constantly con- concerned with how do I get the next sale? How do I get the next account? Not why am I here? Why am I doing this? What is my cam? Like, you're not, they're not asking these questions. And so I think w- we allowed ourself to have time with this. And then I think as the stage of the business grew, Rohan then started really trusting the team. We brought in incredible senior leadership, so it moved over to like more of a board like role. He was always heavily involved throughout, great in the brainstorming conversations and all, but I think as the business grew, we hired on really smart people, people smarter than me to come in and like really advise.

6. 14:24 – 18:26

   the economics of super bowl commercials

   1. SPSam Parr14:24

      Hey, what's the economics of a Super Bowl commercial? You guys did, did you guys do two or one?

   2. AEAllison Ellsworth14:29

      We've done a few. Two. Um, what people don't realize about a Super Bowl commercial is sure, there's the media buy, but then there's the production buy, and then there's the sustaining after the Super Bowl. It depends on if you do a 30 or a 60. They're anywhere from $6 to $11 million. It's the standard price for everybody. But what is the cost if you're gonna hire somebody to do it? A, a director, a film crew. And then how do you sustain that afterward? So you hit people at the, at the Super Bowl with a Super Bowl ad. You gotta hit them about seven more times with more linear ads, right? And so that you have to also invest in. So I think you also have to have distribution. It's pointless to do it if you're in five stores. At the time that we did our first Super Bowl ad, we were finally in almost every grocery store in the nation. We were really focused on our awareness goals and how do we, you know, up the awareness? Well, Super Bowl. I remember we did it and the day after we tripled our awareness overnight, and no one had really seen us as a soda. They were like, "Oh, they're a sparkling water or better for you this." After the Super Bowl, we said we were a soda 17 times in that Super Bowl ad.

   3. SPSam Parr15:37

      [laughs]

   4. AEAllison Ellsworth15:37

      Afterwards, everyone calls us a soda. So there was a lot of intentional motion behind why we did that, and it was breakthrough for us.

   5. SPSam Parr15:45

      Well, do you remember the all-in costs? And then was there like analytics live and like looking at your website traffic? What was that like?

   6. AEAllison Ellsworth15:53

      First time we did Super Bowl, let me lay [laughs] lay this down for you. We bought the Super Bowl five days before the Super Bowl.

   7. SPSam Parr15:58

      [laughs]

   8. AEAllison Ellsworth16:01

      Literally. So it's-

   9. SPSam Parr16:02

      That must've been stressful

   10. AEAllison Ellsworth16:03

       ... so that's not normal. Most people buy it a year ahead of time. And so what happened is we'd done a bunch of brand work. We put together a creative campaign on how, um, we're the future of the soda, or future of soda is now and called Poppi. And we brought this creative to life and we saw it, and it was just gonna be an evergreen brand campaign that we were gonna run across all of our linear media channels and streaming. And we saw this piece of content, and it was very anthemic. It was beautiful. It just like told the s- the story of soda and the evolution of it. And we're like, "Wait, this is a Super Bowl ad." We went to go buy one. You couldn't, you can't just like buy a Super Bowl ad right before. But is what big companies do is they'll buy a bunch of Super Bowl ads, say like, uh, for a bunch of their brands, and sometimes they end up not using them at the end. And they'll go on the market for like secondary buy on the brand net market.

   11. SPSam Parr16:53

       Oh.

   12. AEAllison Ellsworth16:53

       And we found one. I was like at a dinner with someone at a TikTok event, and they're like, "Yeah, I think one of my friends has one." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, can I get him on with our CMO?" And our CMO at the time, Andy Judd, went back with him back and forth, and we bought it. And we're like, "Okay, now how do we activate 'cause we can't activate in store?" So it's really hard to talk about the all-in cost because typically there's store activation, there's creator activation, there's, you know, the media of it all. There's website, there's production. We didn't get to do any of that honestly with our first Super Bowl. And then the second time around we did it with Charli XCX, and it was one of these moments where we wanted to just have like a fun time with it. So it was like all about the vibes within it.

   13. SPSam Parr17:35

       [laughs]

   14. AEAllison Ellsworth17:35

       It wasn't this like... It was just like vibes. Or literally she said that was like the tagline. There was this like Poppi vibes. And so we're just different. Like we're not super concerned with all of those like little aspects that you're asking, and I, I honestly don't even know the full number. I'm sure if I asked our CMO, he would know.

   15. SPSam Parr17:53

       [laughs]

   16. SPShaan Puri17:53

       Shaan, how does that make you feel? Because, um, a bunch of our friends who are in e-commerce, and probably many of the ones that are like significantly less successful than the greats, are so like CAC driven and so, uh, metrics driven, and she's sort of saying the exact opposite. Look, that's why, it's why we do the podcast is 'cause there's a thousand different ways to win. And so we like inviting people on to understand, how did, how did you win? What did you do? What did... How does your brain work? Um, that's part of the, the beauty of it. But also, they're not in e-commerce. They're CPG, they're in retail.

7. 18:26 – 25:09

   Brand Positioning Masterclass

   1. SPShaan Puri18:26

      And so, eh, like I was just looking at the Super Bowl ad, the, the first one you were talking about, and it starts with, like, "You're a human on Earth, and in all of human, human existence, b- things have been done a certain way, and soda's been done a certain way. This is Poppi. Poppi looks like soda, it tastes like soda, but..." And, and then it has the differentiator at the end of it. And so, like, I kinda dig that. Like, the... I think positioning is super underrated. I don't think most founders know how to do positioning at all. I think they, they jump straight into trying to go sell, sell, sell, but they haven't done the upfront work of figuring out, well, how is this gonna live in someone's mind, and why would anybody wanna buy this? 'Cause they don't care about you. Um, and you have to sort of fit into their worldview in some unique way to break through, to make the, all the selling more effective. And so what I really like is, like, the name, the brand, the packaging, the positioning. You know, you guys kinda did a masterclass on that, and I think that's a pretty underrated founder skill. I don't think many people do that well. Who do you... Do you think people do that well, or do you think people screw that up? Like, when you walk through the stores, are you just like, "Oh, God. That's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"?

   2. AEAllison Ellsworth19:28

      Most people do it wrong, unfortunately. I teach, like, masterclasses, and I go all over and I speak on brand and how you can break through on TikTok, and all of these things that are inherently so first experience for me, just, like, second nature, and it's blowing their minds. And then they'll go in and their mind is blown and they're still not doing it. And I just, like, actually don't get it. So when it comes to brand positioning, it is so core to what we've always done that it's actually always an ever-breathing document. So we knew we were revolutionizing soda for the next generation. We knew we were giving everyone the freedom to love soda again its, at its best without all the baggage. Cool. North Star. That is never gonna change. But what does change is how culture changes.

   3. SPShaan Puri20:14

      But can I, can I pause you real quick? C- 'cause you're saying we knew we were gonna revolutionize soda, but the Shark Tank thing is a really interesting thing 'cause you were on there with a brand that was not that great, packaging that was not that great, not talking about soda. So something happened in that nine months after the Shark Tank [laughs] deal where you guys had some sort of, like, you know, rebirth and some conversation in a meeting room somewhere where somebody asked some good questions and somebody had some good answers. So can you describe what was happening in those meetings? Or, like, what was the useful either question or exercise or consultant or whatever you did that helped you kinda get that level of clarity?

   4. AEAllison Ellsworth20:50

      You know, and, and I think it's, it's this ever-breathing document. So when we first launched, it was apple cider vinegar, prebiotics, like, super simple gut health. We knew we were going after soda. No... It goes back to nobody believed us. We didn't even know, but hey, we're gonna try. This is a huge category. And kombucha was on the decline. Sparkling water wasn't giving everyone that full flavor, like, soda feeling that they wanted. So we knew all of those things are the facts that we know. And what we knew is once we launched, people were starting to have this use occasion where they were drinking Poppi in the same occasion as soda. And so it was... W- we got more data points along the way. So I, I sit here and joke with, like, we're brand forward. We're actually incred- incredibly, you know, sophisticated in our platforms and our processes as well, which made us, I think, such a strong company. But I do think then we learned, oh, wait, this occasion. Okay. So on the front of our packaging, our tagline used to be, uh, "Be gut happy. Be gut healthy." We're like, wait, people don't really care about that that much. We changed it to, "Soda's back better than ever." We were constantly tweaking and changing as the consumer was changing and the use occasion of what people were saying about us online, what we were listening to our consumers. So... And that's what I mean within building a good brand, is focusing on what you know, what's your North Star, but then you can change, you can change. And it's really hard for entrepreneurs to change, by the way.

   5. SPSam Parr22:18

      Well, what I've noticed is that, like, have you read Peter Thiel's Zero to One? Okay. So he, he, like, g- has this whole chapter or chapters on, like, moats, and he's like, "One moat is," I forget what he said. His network effects this or that. And then he gets to the last chapter and he's like, "There is one more moat. It's called brand. I know it's important, and I also know I don't know much about it, so I'm not gonna write about it. But if you can figure it out, you're gonna be amazing."

   6. SPShaan Puri22:41

      [laughs]

   7. SPSam Parr22:41

      And it's like, it's, like, kinda funny because it's, like, kind of a stereotypical Silicon Valley thing where it's like tech and product is number one, and, like, all the other stuff, like brand, is number two. And Shaan has talked... Eh, Shaan loves comedians and, like, the creative process, and we talk about this idea of being sensitive and how you have to be sensitive in order to find, like, good stories. Like, you gotta see, like, you have to be sensitive when, when you see what resonates. And something that I've learned about branding, and I, and I'm not good at it, I'm trying to learn, is that you do have to be very sensitive. And so, like, you're talking about these things, I've noticed, and you're making, like, very small observations, or they, they feel small. Like, you're talking to, like, maybe, let's say, 50 people over the course of a day at a farmers market or whatever, and you're noticing, like, actually, people care about X, Y, and Z. And those small changes appear to have k- in sum, created this massive outcome, along with a bunch of other stuff. And I think that's what's interesting. Is there, like, an 80/20 rule where it's like if you focus on these handful of things, it will make a meaningful difference?

   8. AEAllison Ellsworth23:38

      I think it goes back to, I've said this before, but it's this ability or this thing around embarrassment. I think embarrassment's the most underexplored emotion when it comes to being successful in life. I think a lot of people say to themselves, like, "Oh, I wanna go pitch this idea in a meeting, but what if I sound stupi- stupid?" Or, "I wanna start a business, but what if no one cares?" Or, "I wanna make a TikTok, but what... Maybe I'll look ridiculous and, like, people will think weird of me." But I think with it, to your point of, like, all of these little moments, I hear, like, "What if I am successful? What if I am viral? What, what about, what can I learn about my product?" And then, "How, how... Okay, you hate it. Tell me why you hate it Uh, okay. Well, so, like, for example, we had a flavor root beer that we launched, and the packaging we'd never really loved because we were a really bright company across, like, right, like, basically the rainbow effect of, like, all these colors. And we had root beer, and it was brown. And I was like, "Ugh, but such a core soda flavor." And so I was like, "Okay, we gotta figure out how to do this." And our consumers telling us it tasted horrible. And we were like, "Maybe we should listen to them." And we changed the packaging, we changed the entire flavor, and then we put out online all the bad comments and, like, confronted it, and we're like, "Hey, you guys made us do this because we listened." And I think a lot of people just aren't willing to do that or, like, put themselves out there or acknowledge when they were wrong, and it's... It's hard because entrepreneurs, like, we have egos. Like, you don't wanna do those things.

8. 25:09 – 26:38

   hiring gen z

   1. SPSam Parr25:10

      Was there any, um, book or resource that you read that changed your perspective when it came to branding?

   2. AEAllison Ellsworth25:17

      No. Though fun fact about me, I'm, like, severely dyslexic. I'm... You could not, like, pay me to read a book. I'll listen to a book. I'll listen to a podcast. I'm obsessed with doing that, but I think it's so funny. I think there's this, like, theory that you have to, like, read all these, like, self-help books, and you have to, like, be on this train of, like, meditation, all these things. Like, I think all that is bullshit. Like, that's not how I live my life.

   3. SPSam Parr25:40

      [laughs]

   4. AEAllison Ellsworth25:40

      I, I, I, like, wake up, you know, as my child's, like, hitting me in the head asking for his iPad code, and me being like, "You... I took iPads away," you know? And I'm, like, trying to get coffee, and my kid's out the door. Like, I don't have time for that stuff 'cause what I do know is I listen to culture. And I was saying that we moved at the speed of culture. What is culturally relevant in society, from social speak to, um, not only social speak, but, like, what are people talking about? Meme culture to tentpoles within society that are culturally relevant. So you look at the calendar. Coachella's a, a tentpole. Grammys. How do you break through? Hamptons is a hotspot, right, that people s- are at during the summer. So for me it was like, with brand, it's so tied to culture, and that was my obsession and, and my team's obs- obsession. We hire people really young. We love to hire gen Z, smart people that are living the moment within culture, and we trust them, which is also hard for, I think, some people to do.

   5. SPShaan Puri26:36

      [laughs]

9. 26:38 – 31:19

   IDEA: Protein anything

   1. SPShaan Puri26:38

      You, um, you sent us a, a list of ideas 'cause we... One thing we like to do is we like to brainstorm with other founders. And how lucky are we that we get to sit with somebody who's built a multi-billion dollar CPG brand and be like, "Hey, what else is interesting?" Maybe som- maybe y- you know, you guys are doing a new thing now, but something you won't do, something you don't plan to do, but you think, "Hey, there's an opportunity there." 'Cause once you start to win, you see all kinds of opportunities in adjacent spaces that you're never gonna have the time or energy to go do. What, what's on your mind? What do you see as opportunities, white spaces, things that you're, you think, you know, somebody like you could go, um, you know, the younger version of you could go and attack?

   2. AEAllison Ellsworth27:16

      You know, I always love this type of question of, like, what could you do, or what do you wanna do next, or, like, what's the hottest thing? The beauty of Poppi is we figured it out before everybody else. So for example, protein is so hot right now. Everyone's trying to figure out how to put protein in, from ice cream to drinks to, you know, you see what h- what David is doing with the protein bar and all of this space, and it is really hot. But for me, I'm like, "Okay, cool. I think it's hot. I'm not gonna now go create it." Someone is already first to market on that. And usually the winners are the first to second to market. It's really hard for, like, even a third to market to be successful unless you do it different. So you take, like, the AG1 craze, the, the green craze, right? I don't know if you guys remember. Maybe it was, like, six years ago we were getting hit with, like, 300 AG1 ads.

   3. SPShaan Puri28:04

      [laughs]

   4. AEAllison Ellsworth28:05

      You know what I'm talking about?

   5. SPShaan Puri28:06

      Yeah.

   6. AEAllison Ellsworth28:06

      Well-

   7. SPShaan Puri28:07

      Pod- podcasting was just an AG- a g- one long continuous AG1 ad for a while.

   8. SPSam Parr28:11

      Yeah, it started with Meundies, and then it went to Athletic Greens.

   9. AEAllison Ellsworth28:14

      Athletic Green. Yeah, and you're just like, "Oh my gosh, it's everywhere." But I actually feel like they failed to, like, innovate. You know, then GRÜN comes along and does it in the gummies, and they exit. A- AG is still has not exited. So I d- I'm not here to say you can't be late to the game and still win. It's just way harder, and you almost have to do it better, smarter, and different if you wanna be successful. So for me, I think protein's hot. Good luck breaking through the market. It's very crowded right now. I think everyone is also trying to figure out the creatine craze, the gum- do you put it in a powder or do a gummy? How do we get women on it, right? Everyone's talking about these things, but it's almost like you need to have been the first creatine gummy. So I'm not here to say, like, I don't even know what's next other than I am starting another company, and I can't tell you guys what it is, and I do think it's what's next. So it's hard for me to, like, speak to it.

   10. SPShaan Puri29:05

       Well, maybe a, a different question on that. Okay, we can keep it a mystery, but tell us h- your mindset on it. So are you like, "I wanna run it back. I know so much. I'm gonna go kinda same, same genre of business"? Or, you know, sometimes people are like, "Oh my God, so much scar tissue from that. Now I wanna go do real est- I wanna go do something so different over here." How are you just thinking about it? 'Cause I think every entrepreneur on their second act, their third act, they get to decide.

   11. AEAllison Ellsworth29:28

       So what's crazy is obviously we exited the company, and then Pepsi gave everybody jobs that were Poppi employees. But you don't sell your company, then they're like, "Hey, here's your employee badge." So me and Steven stayed on as advisors, but as an advisor, you have to take a step back from the day-to-day of the business, and I still, like, adore Poppi, and I'm just so happy for everything that's happening there. But I had a lot more time on my hands, and I'm just really intense. I'm, I'm really hyper. I love chaos, and we went, like, six months. I played golf, and, like, we went on vacation. I, like, hung out with my kids. Ugh. And, um-

   12. SPShaan Puri30:05

       [laughs]

   13. AEAllison Ellsworth30:05

       ... it was just this whole thing where you're just like, "Oh, wait. I miss the team. I miss the build." So we always knew, like, we had something else in it, but I, I do think to your point it's very important to, like, whatever we do next, I want it to be successful and it to be something I do because I love it and it's a good idea, not just a duty And so with it, we came up with, like, a really good idea. It's, it was another, like, personal need where I think a lot of good ideas come from personal needs, right? That passion within versus, "I read the data and there's a gap in the market, and the white space is this," and you're like, "Ugh, boring." So for me, it was very personal, and it's also mass. So I think a lot of people with starting a company, they try to get a little bit too niche, and apple cider vinegar mother beverage was really niche. That's a great example. It was for people that, you know, "My grandma told me I should drink that," or like, "Yeah, I, I... That does help my tummy." But the second we switched basically this exact same [laughs] liquid over, we changed the positioning and the, and the need state and the occasion to soda, it blew up. And so I think that, um, whatever we do will be mass and, uh, really cater to all demographics while honing in on a particular creative demographic.

10. 31:19 – 38:09

    IDEA: lymphatic massage

    1. SPSam Parr31:20

       What's, uh... Okay, so we asked you for some, like... We, we asked you about this topic in advance, and you wrote down, uh, a, a word that I keep seeing. I don't entirely know what it means, but you said lymphatic massage. I follow a guy on Instagram, and every morning at 4:30, he posts these videos of him doing lym- lymphatic jumping.

    2. SPShaan Puri31:38

       Dude, you, you, you follow a guy. I-

    3. AEAllison Ellsworth31:39

       Guys, it got me-

    4. SPShaan Puri31:39

       I'm doing this. I'm laying there with my legs on the wall.

    5. AEAllison Ellsworth31:42

       Yeah.

    6. SPShaan Puri31:42

       I'm massaging my lymph nodes.

    7. SPSam Parr31:43

       Yeah, tell me about lymphatic.

    8. SPShaan Puri31:44

       I'm like, "I don't know if this does anything." Somebody told me, they go-

    9. SPSam Parr31:47

       Lymphatic is the word I keep seeing

    10. SPShaan Puri31:48

        ... they go, "You might feel a little sick at first, but that's how you know it's working," which is the ultimate marketing sales pitch. It's like, "You are trying to get healthier. You might feel, you might feel sick at first. That's how powerful this is."

    11. AEAllison Ellsworth31:58

        You know, and I've never been sick from it, but is what happened is, you know, I worked for 10 years at Poppi. I think tw- I went to the doctor, like, once. You know, you're just, like, on this build mode. But I was like, "Oh, wait. Okay, I need to, like, get my life together on, like, the wellness front," and I started doing all sorts of things, doing longevity doctors and, you know, getting all the, the function health, and, like, understa- and then you get all this data and you're like, "Well, what do I do with this?" And so for me, I just recently had a surgery with the whole mommy makeover. I had, like, a tummy tuck, and I'm, like, living my best life, and the doctor's like, "The number one thing you can do is lymphatic massage." I started doing it after surgery three times a week. I still do it twice a week.

    12. SPSam Parr32:40

        But what's, like, lym- I- is that a body part?

    13. AEAllison Ellsworth32:42

        It's lymph-

    14. SPSam Parr32:42

        I don't even know

    15. AEAllison Ellsworth32:42

        ... lymphatic. It's the system that helps flush out all the toxins and get everything out of your system. And so the idea behind lymphatic massage is you are slowly working those fluids to your lymphatic system for detox and flush you, so you feel lighter, you feel, you know, not as bloated, um, more energy. You're just getting, like, all of that bad stuff out of your system.

    16. SPSam Parr33:05

        But, like, on a scale woo-woo to proven, with woo-woo being totally fine, that's not an insult, where does it rank? Like, where is it on that spectrum?

    17. AEAllison Ellsworth33:13

        I don't think that it's something that, um, there's, like, a lot of science behind it by any means. For me personally, I always think, like, personal recommendations are always better. It's like it's been life-changing for me through... I mean, there's, like... Say you're, like, running a marathon, like Steven's running the New York City Marathon, and he's been having knee pain, and I was like, "Go get lymphatic massage." And he was like, for three weeks, he was like, "Oh my gosh," like, "my pain is gone."

    18. SPSam Parr33:37

        [laughs] Cool.

    19. AEAllison Ellsworth33:38

        And so it just helps the soreness, just all that stuff built up in your body, it gets it out. So I challenge you to go do it. And one of the best people in the space, it's, it's really comes from Brazilian lymphatic massage, so this is really big in Brazil. Her name is Josie. And she lives here in Austin, and she's, like, does all of the stars from Miley Cyrus to Katy Perry to all these people. So, like, test this out. Might not work for you.

    20. SPShaan Puri34:05

        Sam, just go to the spa and ask for a Brazilian and see what happens. I think, I think that'll work. Um-

    21. SPSam Parr34:09

        Yeah, I don't know about that. [laughs]

    22. SPShaan Puri34:11

        [laughs]

    23. AEAllison Ellsworth34:11

        [laughs]

    24. SPShaan Puri34:12

        So you talked about your, your, you can't announce your company, but can we guess? Can we just take five blind guesses, and in a year we just come back and see if we, we had it right?

    25. AEAllison Ellsworth34:20

        Sure. I mean, I won't say anything. [laughs]

    26. SPShaan Puri34:22

        You, you don't have to confirm or deny. You can just say, "That's interesting." I'm just thinking, I'm li- I'm thinking where you go into... Let me ask you one question. We had Eric Ryan come on. He created Olly gummies and Method soap and a bunch of ama- Welly band-aids, and he had this great line where he goes, "I walk through the aisles and I look at, I look for a sea of sameness." So basically, "I'm looking for these sleepy categories where everything looks the same in the aisle, and I wanna come and be different." And he said even with the gummy brand, he was like, "All of the vitamins look the same. They were all round jars." He's like, "So I just knew right away, first note, okay, we're doing a, like, a rectangular jar." [laughs] He's like, "It's... Is it better? No, but it's completely different, so, like, it's better there- therefore." Do you have a similar approach? Do you kinda walk looking for sort of sleepy aisles or a sea of sameness? Is that a, is that a, a heuristic for you? Or no, you think about other things?

    27. AEAllison Ellsworth35:10

        No. For me, it's personal need. So it's like I think there's this whole new wave of this, like, GLP-1 era that people are sleeping on and not catering to and thinking that it's gonna go away. And so I lost 60 pounds on GLP-1s. It's absolutely changed my life. And so that, like, there was just, like, a personal need there, and it, and I think that people... It's not that deep either. I think that you make the best brands, and the best businesses are 10 to 15% better than the established norm. It's not the niche products, like I said.

    28. SPShaan Puri35:47

        Can you explain that? 'Cause what, what I hear all the time in San Francisco is the, uh, you gotta be 10 times better is the kind of, like, the thing. And, and who can argue with that? Hell, might as well say 100 times better, right? Like, you know, who doesn't want that? But you have a... You're saying something a little bit different. You're saying actually a small kinda angle difference, 10 to 15%, can be enough. Can you explain that?

    29. AEAllison Ellsworth36:08

        I think with, like, food and beverage in particular, or beauty products, like s- hardcore CPG, I can only speak to that 'cause that's what I know, and I think it's true for in that space in the way of you take soda, for example. Everyone grew up on soda, and usually when you say the word soda, you have a memory. Like, movies, late night with family, burger and a soda. It invokes emotion because there's that long-ingrained nostalgia of something you grew up with. So- Every marketer's goal, how do you get to the consumer and you move the buying power from the head to the heart so they're emotionally connected with your brand? That's what you always wanna do with brand building. How do you get someone who's obsessed? So you tap into emotion and you make something that they grew up with just a little bit better, right? That's what we did at Poppi. We have cola, we have root beer, we have cream soda, we have all of these flavors that people grew up, and we're just, we're better, right? And so instead of being like, "Hey, we're Poppi, we also have ashwagandha, and lion's mane, and we have 38 other ingredients that nobody actually cares about," versus, "Hey, we're gonna make this 89% less sugar. You're gonna get all the same flavors you grew up with, and we're really g- yeah, sure, we have prebiotics. We're not gonna talk about it that much." And that's what I mean, that 10 to 15% better.

    30. SPSam Parr37:24

        By the way, I started drinking Poppi so much more when, uh, the prebi- or pr- probiotic messaging was a little bit different. Before, when I used to see it, I used to see it at a Royal Blue grocery store, and I was like, "Is this supposed to be, like, a health, a health drink?" I was like, "What is this?"
11. 38:09 – 43:20

    IDEA: Sleep health powder

    1. SPSam Parr38:09

       What's this thing that you listed called Nello?

    2. AEAllison Ellsworth38:13

       Oh, Nello. They're so good. So magnesium. Anything, I think, all around sleep health is really important as well. I think I always say if you're stressed out, or having a bad day, or you wanna blow up on an employee, or your friend, or your coworker, and you're just like, "Ugh," nothing a good night's sleep can't cure.

    3. SPSam Parr38:29

       But what is Nello?

    4. AEAllison Ellsworth38:30

       Nello is a powder within the calming space, so it's magnesium, and there's a lot of studies around magnesium and helping you sleep. We're also, uh, I'm obsessed with, like, my Orion Sleep System. I don't know if you've seen these, but, like, regulates-

    5. SPSam Parr38:44

       What's that? What's that?

    6. AEAllison Ellsworth38:45

       ... the temperature at night. Um, and so, like, my side of the bed is different than Steven's side of the bed, and you can sleep, and then it auto changes throughout the night and tracks your temperature so that, you know, like, those nights where you, like, wake up and you're, like, sweating or you're freezing? It tracks that before it hap- happens, so it keeps you in REM. It keeps you in your deep sleep state. And so it's all of these things that I feel like these calming powders, all of these things to bring you more sleep has been, like, a game changer for me personally, and they're blowing up. They're everywhere. They're killing it.

    7. SPSam Parr39:16

       What are some other little gadgets or drinks like that that you're p- playing around with, or you're, like, you know, nerding out, even as, as a health consumer or, like, a businesswoman who, like, cares about seeing the latest and greatest?

    8. AEAllison Ellsworth39:28

       I think another big movement that I purchased for my household is called Preston Lane cleaning products, and it's clean. Like, the ingredients are clean. So you're spraying it on your table where your kids are, and you have all these other ones with all these, like, harsh, harsh chemicals in it. Well, I switched my whole household over to Preston Lane, and not only does it smell amazing, the ingredients are safe, but they also make, like, candles and they make dish soaps. And so it all also looks really aesthetically pleasing in your house, and it matches, versus you have that old-school, like, Clorox bottle, right? You're like, "Ugh, how do I hide all this?" Or the Dawn soap.

    9. SPSam Parr40:06

       [laughs]

    10. AEAllison Ellsworth40:06

        "How do I hide all this under the cabinet?" Um, and they've done a really good job also with the spray, it's a scent, so that, like, your house smells good at the same time versus that lemon Pledge.

    11. SPSam Parr40:16

        Doesn't that sort of go against one of the points you made about, like, how protein has played out, and so it's gonna be a lot more challenging? Because when I thought about, like, clean-

    12. SPShaan Puri40:24

        Better for you

    13. SPSam Parr40:24

        ... well, first of all, like, yeah, like, better-for-you, like, s- soaps or, um, Clorox or whatever, I would've thought that there's one called, like, Bl- Blue, Blue Lan- I forget what it's called. Blue something. Uh-

    14. SPShaan Puri40:35

        Blueland. Yeah.

    15. AEAllison Ellsworth40:35

        Blueland.

    16. SPSam Parr40:36

        Yeah, like, it's... And, and then there's, like, you know, we just talked about Eric Ryan. His whole thing was, "How do I create a bottle so, like, cool or pretty that you'd keep it on your countertop instead of hiding it away?" But it seems like there's still, like, some pretty cool emerging brands that are popping up because of that.

    17. AEAllison Ellsworth40:50

        Yeah, I think Blueland is an incredible brand. It's more ar- around, like, how do they reduce plastic and their refillable-

    18. SPSam Parr40:56

        Oh, got it

    19. AEAllison Ellsworth40:57

        ... tablets putting in. So they're, like, taking on the oceans, and they're killing it. So that's a whole other use occasion where it's like I want clean ingredients that make my house smell good that look cute on my counter. Sure, you could argue maybe, like, a Method, but I still don't think they're that cute. They look, they're not, like, high-end Ralph Lauren, Tom Ford type look, whereas I think Preston Lane is. So, and it's an affordable price. And so-

    20. SPSam Parr41:21

        They're definitely not anymore. Like, I remember when it came out originally, it was awesome. Now it's like, it is definitely, it's, it's old now.

    21. SPShaan Puri41:26

        [laughs]

    22. SPSam Parr41:26

        You know, it's probably, like, 20 years old.

    23. AEAllison Ellsworth41:28

        It, it is. And so I think that there's still innovation within categories, and they're doing it just 10 to 15% better, right? And if you really look at it, no one else is really doing it in this space right now, and they're pretty new.

    24. SPSam Parr41:38

        That's kind of a good guess, Shaan, for what she's gonna do next. I, I think s- cleaning supplies is somewhat interesting.

    25. SPShaan Puri41:43

        Clean- cleaning. Uh, cleaning is one guess. I think, like, something like toothpaste, oral care, stuff like that. I mean, she kind of said the GLP-1 thing. Maybe she kind of gave us the hint there of, like, there's a whole, like, ecosystem of, hey, if 100 million Americans are gonna be taking GLP-1s and they go to the store and there's a product they can buy to, like, support, boost, or minimize downsides, obviously that's, like, a mega, mega market that's getting created that today, like, the incumbent products just don't speak to. Even if they could help, they don't, they're not, like, positioned to be that s- that assistant, the wing man for you if you're on GLP-1. So I've definitely, I've thought about that. I, it sounds like she, she's thinking about that. I, I think that's a huge category.

    26. AEAllison Ellsworth42:23

        All these things are great, and I can't wait for you guys to find out in the fall, but-

    27. SPShaan Puri42:27

        [laughs]

    28. AEAllison Ellsworth42:27

        ... you haven't guessed it yet, so stay tuned. [laughs]

    29. SPShaan Puri42:30

        Okay. [laughs] The thrilling podcast where we just simply guess things that the guest can't answer.

    30. AEAllison Ellsworth42:35

        I know, and then you'd be like, "Oh, tell me."
12. 43:20 – 49:19

    What’s it like to be rich?

    1. SPShaan Puri43:20

       well. Can you tell us, like, what it was like to get rich?

    2. AEAllison Ellsworth43:24

       Yeah, and I think the number one thing with entrepreneurs, if you can get to, like, that 20 million mark within your business, you should be having this conversation. Maybe even at the five million, of you probably need to start getting some financial advice. You need to start thinking through your estate planning, your gifting exemptions, and having these conversations really earlier, 'cause the earlier you do it, and you move your shares into trusts, and all these, it's, it's just better in the long run for you. So just putting that out there. If you're anywhere f- between the 5 to 20 million range of revenue for your company, you should be having these conversations. And I think for us, we were blessed to have really good advice early on. And so when you're having these conversations years after years, waiting for this one moment, this exit that may never happen, it's tough place to be. So for me, I'm like, "Okay, I'm great we're there, but I can't think about that." But to your point, absolutely, like, we wanted to exit. I, I love that I can have generational wealth for me and my family, and it was always the goal, right? And so I think that, um, uh, we also, like, halfway in took some chips off the table, where we, like, sold, uh, some of our shares so that we could upgrade our lifestyle a little bit before, and also have a nest egg just in case we don't sell. And I know a lot of founders that haven't done that. And I, I implore them to do it, because I've also heard of people going out of business, and they're left with nothing.

    3. SPShaan Puri44:51

       Well, would you say it kinda works both ways, right? So there's one side is insurance in case, in case it all fell over. You know, you have the safety net. But the other side, like, maybe you experienced this. I, I did, for sure, which was you take a little bit off the table. You, you sort of satisfy that first level. And then you're almost free to swing bigger, because-

    4. AEAllison Ellsworth45:10

       Yeah

    5. SPShaan Puri45:10

       ... you're not all or nothing now. What, did you feel that way when you guys did it?

    6. AEAllison Ellsworth45:14

       I did. And our financial advisor at the time told us, he's like, "You're never gonna regret living the life that you want earlier." Say, say, uh, I don't know, just make a number. It's worth $5 million, and in five years it's gonna be worth 20 million. You're never gonna regret having, buying the nicer house, going on the extra vacation with your kids, getting the upgraded car, having the nicer phone. You're never gonna regret having those experiences. And I agree. And I f- wholeheartedly agree with that. That allowed us to then sit back and, like, work harder for, like, wait, I want more of this.

    7. SPShaan Puri45:45

       [laughs]

    8. AEAllison Ellsworth45:45

       And to, like, dig your heels in. And, like, this is, uh, this upgrade in lifestyle is everything. So I, for us, it was really important. And then the day you actually get the money, you realize your life is, doesn't change overnight. I think that's another thing that happens, is the, the money hits the bank account. I'll never forget, 'cause, you know, Stephen has his shares, I have mine, and we were like refresh, refresh on day of. And then, like, my half hit at, like, 10:00, and it was still, like, 2:00, and his hadn't hit. And I was like-

    9. SPShaan Puri46:11

       [laughs]

    10. AEAllison Ellsworth46:11

        ... "Oh, hi. I'm richer than you."

    11. SPShaan Puri46:12

        [laughs]

    12. AEAllison Ellsworth46:12

        And, um, if I [laughs] finally, like, went to the account. And then we were like, "Hey, let's go celebrate. Let's go to lunch," or go to dinner. I forget what it was. But we had calls, and it was, like, this whole thing. We ended up doing nothing. I sat on Zoom call rest of the day. You know, and the next day woke up and we, we still had to be on Zoom calls. So it, it, it was this thing of my life didn't change just overnight. It's where it does change is where you're spending a year of, like, actually making real change within your life. Like, how do I make my life easier? How do I get more time with my kids? You, you know, first thing you usually do is, like, hire a housekeeper, and have maybe a chef once or twice a week so you're not cooking. Or, you know, how do you get help on executive level? Or a nanny. Like, we never had a nanny before, right, before we sold. So it was a lot of these things of, like, this upgraded lifestyle. But knowing I don't want my kids to be spoiled kids. So, like, it's a balance within the lifestyle, and we're still kind of figuring it out. It's still pretty new.

    13. SPSam Parr47:10

        Yeah. What type of conversations ... I, how, I think you said your oldest was 14?

    14. AEAllison Ellsworth47:14

        Oh, it's, he's nine. So we've n- uh, four-

    15. SPSam Parr47:16

        Oh, sorry. Nine

    16. AEAllison Ellsworth47:17

        ... four, eight, and nine. Yeah. It's crazy.

    17. SPSam Parr47:18

        Okay. Well, nine is, is just getting to the age where you can start having some observations, um, and, like, questioning certain things. Have you, do you have regular conversations with them?

    18. AEAllison Ellsworth47:29

        The thing is they are still little, but the difference is our exit was very public. So we're-

    19. SPSam Parr47:34

        Yeah

    20. AEAllison Ellsworth47:34

        ... in every headline, every single one of his t- teachers, friends, our fri- everybody knows that it was 2 billion, and everyone obviously thinks we took all the 2 million, which is not true. Or 2 billion, excuse me. So I w- I remember, like, one time, I think it was, like, two days after the exit. And once again, I'm dropping my kids off at school in Crocs and socks, and, like, my hair in a ponytail. My life hasn't, like ... You know, you're just living life. And a little girl, she was in kindergarten, she walked out and she's like, "Are you a billionaire?"

    21. SPSam Parr48:01

        [laughs]

    22. SPShaan Puri48:01

        [laughs]

    23. AEAllison Ellsworth48:02

        And I'm like, "Oh, we gotta have some conversations with our kids."

    24. SPShaan Puri48:05

        [laughs]

    25. AEAllison Ellsworth48:06

        Um, like, I, I didn't realize, like, how big it was. So we sat them down and we were basically like, "Hey, it's ours, not yours. Um, our lives aren't gonna change."

    26. SPShaan Puri48:14

        [laughs]

    27. AEAllison Ellsworth48:14

        "We're gonna continue to be good people. We're gonna continue to be kind, and give back, and, and do all that, and then not shy away from it." So we got them all Fidelity investment accounts, and put a little bit of money in so that they can start learning how to invest. So they have quarterly meetings with our financial advisors.

    28. SPShaan Puri48:30

        [laughs]

    29. AEAllison Ellsworth48:31

        And we're continually having these conversations, 'cause we're not naive to think that they don't know.

    30. SPShaan Puri48:35

        Well, what are they investing in?
13. 49:19 – 57:34

    Inside selling to Pepsi

    1. SPShaan Puri49:19

       one of the most important parts of any company. You, as a founder, you get... You, you might do many businesses, you might work on businesses for years, but you, you really only do M&A like 1% of your ent- entrepreneurial journey, so you don't get a lot of reps at it. But it's super important, like the value can swing 30%, 50% based on how you approach that, when you go to market, how you go to market, how you do all that. Was it a easy process? Was it a super stressful process? Was there any great moments in the high-stakes negotiations going on? Like what can you tell us about the story?

    2. AEAllison Ellsworth49:48

       So there's that fine line within especially beverage, because once again it's like my experience in it, is you can get too big to be bought, and then you're forced to go IPO, and within a beverage that's not great because then you don't have a distribution partner. And so you're looking at who can be a great distribution partner. There's only three people that can buy you, which is Keurig Dr Pepper, Pepsi and Coke. And so you're, y- you're, you're, you're kind of like, "Okay, yeah, sure, you could do what Celsius did," and they were able to go, um, public. But Pepsi distributes them and has a small stake in the co- company. So there are other ways around it, but traditionally that's how it, it works-

    3. SPShaan Puri50:30

       Sorry, can you, can you explain the distributor part? It's you need the actual retail entry, you need a manufacturing plant? What do you mean by you need a distribution partner? Because you're obviously doing so well, what is it that they bring at that point that you need?

    4. AEAllison Ellsworth50:42

       Yeah. So for us, we were a direct distribution model, where it's called DSD. Um, we had 180 different distributors pieced together across the US, g- putting, basically putting us on their truck and putting us on the shelf. You know, so all of that would move over to one person doing it. So we call it the red or the blue truck, right? Or the purple truck. So you have purple, which is Keurig Dr Pepper, blue is Pepsi, or red truck. And so our goal is like, "Oh, great, we can now be on this blue truck." It's one person you're talking to versus the 180 or whatever the number was. And now we have access to so many more things than we did before. For example, we were the official soda of the Lakers and could not be sold in the stadium because it was a Coke contract. We can't be at Madison Square Garden, we can't be at Taco Bell, Subway, you can't be, you can't be at any of these places. So if you really want to grow, you have to have that distribution arm because of all of those contract place. Think the Marriotts of the world, the international of it all, right? We'd have to build out different international teams. So if you really want to have growth, you need a partner, uh, uh, to do this. And so for us, we talked to all three. It depends on timing, what their priorities are within. And w- the beauty with Pepsi, they're really prioritizing better for you. They're taking their dyes out of like a lot of their chips. Um, they were having the conversation, understanding what's happening with Gatorade. They're taking stuff out of, uh, the ingredients out of that. So I think that, um, they saw the vision, they saw the data, and they saw a great story and a great team and a great brand. And so they approached us, uh, one year earlier before we sold. Kind of we were in talks with them, um, and they kind of gave us a little bit of an offer. It was like, "Hey, no, I think we can keep going." So we completely stopped talking to them, didn't talk to them, not even an email for like over a year, and then we kind of opened up the conversations where we hit about 500,000 in revenue, and we're like, "Okay, if we keep going, this is gonna get rough."

    5. SPSam Parr52:36

       500 million?

    6. AEAllison Ellsworth52:36

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. We hit that, like we were h- we had just surpassed the 500 million mark, and we were like, "Okay, if we keep going like this, say we double the business and we keep going, we should, we should probably reignite some of these conversations," because it's a lot easier to, you know, buy a $500 million company than a billion dollar company, and h- there's less buyers and it's a whole thing. And look, we're having these conversations, and it's always about timing, and Pepsi came to us and they're like, "Hey, we see what's happening here. This is incredible. I know we haven't talked in a year, but we want to re-engage the conversation." And after that, it just was really simple because they offered to buy 100% of the company. A lot of times they'll do a two-step deal where you buy 30% and you have to hit certain markers, and then they'll buy 100%, and it's just, it's a tougher thing to work through from a founder because you're like, "Okay, well, I'm, ugh," back and forth and like, "If I don't hit this, then you can't sell it." But they offered 100% of the company, so it was a great deal. They offered to give all of the Poppi people that wanted jobs, jobs, so we, we knew that that was going to be incredible for the workforce. 99.9% of every employee had equity, so it could be generational money for a lot of these families that worked so hard with us, and they gave us a great offer and a great multiple. And so once we said yes, we worked through DD in about six weeks. And then there's this wait period where the, you know, they have to get approval, uh, with FCC to make sure like a soda company's buying a soda company and there's no monopoly there. And we passed the 30-day mark and we signed the paperwork. So it was actually a shorter process than most people go through.

    7. SPSam Parr54:13

       When Rohan, uh, was on... Is it Rohan or Rohan? Um-

    8. AEAllison Ellsworth54:17

       Rohan, yeah

    9. SPSam Parr54:17

       ... when he-- Rohan, sorry. When he was on, he, um, told some crazy stories because I think, you know, he's now an industry, uh, veteran, but he kind of came up, I believe it was under Smartwater or Vitaminwater, or maybe that's the same guy, and he like told a story when they were wanting to sell where he was like, "My mentor," the, you know, the guy who actually ran the company, he had some like, uh, swagger where like they made offers that he just like said no and he stood up and he just walked out the room, and they like grabbed him and they like said, "All right, come here, come here. We'll, we'll, we'll renegotiate." Like, like he had some crazy energy. Was there any stories like that when you were, uh, negotiating, uh, because you were with him on, um, like did you learn anything about negotiating?

    10. AEAllison Ellsworth54:59

        You know, we were happy with- The Pepsi situation, and we didn't have to do any of that dramatic stuff.

    11. SPSam Parr55:07

        Yeah.

    12. AEAllison Ellsworth55:08

        At one point, there was a company trying to buy us, and Rohan... Like, they offered us 1.6. He wanted 2, and he would, like, threaten to get up in the room, and it, like, blew up the whole thing. But it was kind of like we were, we were in talks with Pepsi at the time, so it was like there's, like, no harm, no foul. I, I would say it was i- it was weirdly easy. I, and not to say, like, to sell the company, but, like, the negotiations. Like, Pepsi just got it. I don't know how to explain it, and they still are doing such a good job, 'cause I think that even post-exit, it's, like, the scariest thing in the world is to, like, hand off your baby and hope they don't mess it up. And it's like, I'm seeing all the cool stuff that they're still doing, so it's not happened yet. I'm still watching. I have faith.

    13. SPSam Parr55:48

        [laughs] Right before, um, uh, I'd sold, um, my c- my last company, I used whichever... I forget which personal finance app I was using, but, like, you can track all of your bank accounts or whatever, and you can manually enter, uh, like a bank account if you own something that can't be linked. And I remember I put in, like, my dream number, like, 12 months before I sold. Did you do anything crazy like that leading up to it, where you were, like, laying in bed, like, trying to manifest, like, $2 billion? Or did you have a number in your head where you were like, "One day, I think we can become this," and it became true? Or were you just along for the ride?

    14. AEAllison Ellsworth56:24

        I remember when we first started, we were like, "If we could just sell for $500 million, like, wow." And I think Vital Proteins had just sold. It was any- I forget what the number is, anywhere from 500 up to a billion. I, I don't know. And I was like, "Wow. I mean, what if we went for 800 million?" And it was just... And then every year in the business, you're like, "Oh, well, that number seems so small. Like, we did that in revenue. Like, what is happening?"

    15. SPSam Parr56:49

        So you had big aspirations early on. Ear- I mean, yeah, I mean, 500 million is a very big number.

    16. AEAllison Ellsworth56:54

        Well, you look at beverage historically, like, it, it's big exits, and there's very few that do it. Um, if you can get to that 100 million, 200 million mark in, in revenue, you're in this, like, playing field that only, like, 15 other brands have been at. And so it's just one of those things that, like, when we started hitting these thresholds, it's really easy to start believing in that dream. And w- as an entrepreneur, uh, uh, sky's the limit the way you think. And you guys know. Like, you're... It's this thing of, like, you know the ceiling. You know you can be there. Why can't I do it? It's like we're fearless within it. And so I think for me, it was more the... You know, you get there at the exit, and then it's the life change afterwards.

14. 57:34 – 1:08:37

    dealing with post-exit depression

    1. AEAllison Ellsworth57:34

       I don't know. Did you guys have the post-exit blues? Or, like, were you just like, "Nope, so glad. Done. Bye"?

    2. SPSam Parr57:40

       [laughs]

    3. AEAllison Ellsworth57:41

       Yes.

    4. SPShaan Puri57:41

       Yeah, I had-

    5. SPSam Parr57:42

       Yeah

    6. SPShaan Puri57:42

       ... heard, I had heard a lot about that, and I was like, "Oh, I wonder... Nope." Uh, I felt amazing, and I, I was like, "Wow, this is actually underrated." Most people don't... Well, I, I will say one thing. I felt relieved more than I felt excited when it happened, 'cause M&A is, like, pretty grueling, and you don't know, and it could, like, it could always die. The deal could always die-

    7. AEAllison Ellsworth58:00

       Oh

    8. SPShaan Puri58:00

       ... until the money's, like-

    9. SPSam Parr58:00

       And anything can happen

    10. SPShaan Puri58:01

        ... in, in the bank. In fact, I just sold a company recently, and five days after we closed, um, like, there was, like, a announcement in, by, you know, a law change that would have, like, pro- It probably wouldn't affected us that much, but it definitely would have spooked a buyer to say, like, "Well, let's just, like, think about it a little bit more." And, like, thank God, you know, just, like, five, it, five days. And you, and you never even know. That's not something we were thinking about necessarily. But, like, we just knew there's a million possibilities of how, like, this could fall apart. We don't even know which one. So I'd say definitely felt relief more than e- excitement, which was surprising. Then felt, uh, a little clueless on, like, great, so now I'm gonna... It's like, well, I don't really... I kind of was already living pretty well. Don't really need any... You know, like, you can upgrade certain things, but it's surprising how little your day-to-day will actually change. That was also a little bit of a surprise. But I didn't feel the blues in terms of, um, [lip smack] I think people feel a sense of las- loss of purpose, or, like, they go from high action with a team and an office to, like, a lot of, like a lot of silence [laughs] and a lot of nothing going on e- each day. For me, that wasn't so, so big of a, of a change. But the thing I do feel is, like, you know, if you, if you spend so much of your life wired to chase one thing, once you get it, you do have to sort of redefine, like, what am I doing this for? What do I want now? And I think that I do feel that. Like, I, I think picking a new mountain to climb that has some meaning behind it is, takes some work versus just doing this, like, you know, 'cause it was very obvious at the beginning. It's like, I got nothing. I want something. That was very clear. I didn't really have to think about it too much. But now I find myself thinking about it a lot more.

    11. SPSam Parr59:39

        But, and, and also, have you guys heard the phrase, they refer to boxers when they get successful. They say, uh, it's a lot harder to wake up at 4:00 AM to go for a run when you're getting out of bed in silk sheets.

    12. AEAllison Ellsworth59:50

        Yeah.

    13. SPSam Parr59:50

        And, uh, it's b- basically, like, you know, it's hard to, like, go and get punched in the face figuratively or physically, uh, when you don't particularly have to. I've noticed post-exit on one, on one side, you definitely do think grander, and you do have more resources to turn ideas into reality. But it could go either way. It could be like, well, because I have resources or because I have time, I can be starting 10 different things at once, which ty- which typically does not end well. That us- that lack of focus doesn't do good, or you just don't grind as hard. And s- and I, the, I, I always have that fear. I'm like, "Oh, am I just soft now?"

    14. SPShaan Puri1:00:26

        Allison, do, do, does any of what, what we just said resonate with you? Or are you like, "No, I don't get that. I'm the opposite of that"? [laughs]

    15. AEAllison Ellsworth1:00:31

        No, I think it's, I think the purpose-driven piece is huge. You know, you, I think purpose is more important than money. But I think if you have purpose, money will come. And for me, I had a 10-year purpose, and then overnight it was gone. It was a lot of loss for me, for sure, like what you're speaking to. But I think that that's normal. You look at these, like, Olympic athletes that retire, and then they're like, "Wait, now what?" Like, I think a lot of people deal with it in different ways throughout their life, and for, for us, it was just like, "Whoa, this is over." And it was really hard, but then once I worked through that and found out like, wait, there's more purpose to life than working, and like this, right? I have a incredible, you know, friend group. I'm, uh, my wellness is a huge piece of purpose for me now, and it's like so it changed a little bit, and I think that, um, that's been really nice for me, and I feel like I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life personally with me because of that. But I am excited to build again, and I am excited. I miss the chaos. I miss the team. I miss the drive. So I think both could probably be true.

    16. SPSam Parr1:01:41

        But what about with kids? B- um, I sold my company before I had a kid. Now that I've g- I've got two kids, Shaan's got kids, uh, y- you guys each have three. I definitely, like, I wanna be home by a certain time, whereas before, uh, I didn't have that. But you have an interesting perspective. Your come up was with babies.

    17. AEAllison Ellsworth1:01:59

        It's like all I know, and it's something I want them to see us to continue to work hard, I think, through example of us doing it again, even though we don't have to. I love that they can see that, but I agree with you. This time I think it'll be easier and having more help. They're older. I can take them with me to New York if I'm doing a trip for a press tour or something like that. Then it just allows for more experiences.

    18. SPShaan Puri1:02:24

        Hey, can I ask you, you probably get 10 times more of this than we do, but, um, you know, you're at an event, you're speaking somewhere, people come up to you and they're like, "Oh, hey, I have this idea," or like, "I'd love to tell you about my thing." And you wanna be nice, and you wanna be helpful, but also the reality of the n- the world is that 99 out of 100 of those people are not serious enough to actually do the thing. And I often have this urge, which is just like, I feel like I, I wish I could just shake 'em and just give 'em some real talk, and I don't even know if they would want it or they would like it or they would listen to it. But, uh, there's this, there's this deep, like, sense in me that, like, I really... There's some real talk I wish I could just give to more people so that maybe that 99 out of 100 would change to 84 out of 100 only would n- would, would not actually, you know, make it happen, but now 16- now, now 16 of the 100 would make it happen. And so w- I wonder what that is for, uh, for you. Like, what do you think is the real talk that people need when, you know, when people come up to you after an event? What do you wish they actually, like, if only you knew, if only you understood what this is actually gonna... What you actually need to do or what this is actually gonna take. What would you say to that person?

    19. AEAllison Ellsworth1:03:31

        So my biggest piece of advice, if you're lucky enough to be in a room with someone like you or me or anyone that can give actual advice, listen. Most people come up to you and they wanna tell you everything about their business, and they never ask a question.

    20. SPShaan Puri1:03:47

        [laughs] They just want validation.

    21. AEAllison Ellsworth1:03:50

        It's one-

    22. SPShaan Puri1:03:50

        It's like-

    23. AEAllison Ellsworth1:03:50

        I don't know what it is.

    24. SPShaan Puri1:03:51

        [laughs]

    25. AEAllison Ellsworth1:03:51

        They're like, "I'm studying this, and we've done this, and we have this manufacturer, and we launch at Target, and da da da, and this is positioning, and this is what I'm thinking through," and I'm like, "Okay?"

    26. SPShaan Puri1:04:00

        [laughs]

    27. AEAllison Ellsworth1:04:00

        Like, I don't know what to, I don't know what to tell you 'cause you haven't asked a question.

    28. SPShaan Puri1:04:04

        Right.

    29. AEAllison Ellsworth1:04:04

        And so I'm always willing to give advice. I'm not willing to do the work for you. And I think that's another thing that people get the line blurred. "Hey, you've done this before. Can I get 10 minutes of your time?" "Well, what are you doing?" "Well, I wanna be an entrepreneur. I think this space could be interesting." Do not come to me with that. Figure it out. Come to me with real questions that I can add value and give back and actually move the needle for your life and your business. And that's, I think, my biggest asset. I don't think a lot of people realize if you're lucky enough to run into a Mark Cuban or a Rohan or a me, ask real questions. And I think, like, if people can actually hear that, it would be actually helpful to them.

    30. SPShaan Puri1:04:45

        [laughs] Yeah. I, I feel that. I feel that for sure. I have this, uh, slightly different take on it, which is I think you're right that, like, you gotta ask a real question, or, uh, most people just wanna be validated. Like, it's the end of the event and they have their parking, uh, ticket, and they just want you to validate it for them so they get free parking, get out of here. It's like, "I have this idea, blah, blah, blah, and it... I just kinda want you to, like, say yes so that I feel good." And it's like, do you wanna feel good or did you wanna actually move the ball forward here, um, by, like, kinda maybe unblocking something that was blocked? But I would say even more than that is most people just are decidedly unserious about the things that they're doing in life, and it's, uh, the problem is not their strategy. It's not their circumstances. It's that they are just not serious enough to, like, make it happen. And you know when you meet somebody who's serious 'cause they don't, they don't have it all figured out, but you can feel in somebody when they're very serious about, like... You just kinda know. This person seems like they have this energy that they're gonna make this happen, even if they know nothing right now, even if they're on the wrong, actively on the wrong track, and they've got mother's beverage and it's apple cider vinegar and they're selling it at farmer's markets. But you can tell, well, I don't care where you start, the slope of that line is gonna be crazy if the person is actually, like, what I call a serious person. And I just think there's... Most people are not serious people about the things that they... even the things that they say they wanna do.
15. 1:08:37 – 1:14:20

    $1M vacation

    1. SPSam Parr1:08:37

       did, uh, did you say you do a million dollar vacation post-exit? Is that right?

    2. AEAllison Ellsworth1:08:40

       I did, yes. It was a long one.

    3. SPSam Parr1:08:42

       D- what was the vacation?

    4. AEAllison Ellsworth1:08:43

       We, so I took like 20 of my family members and, you know, for my mom and dad and my sister and their kids, and my dad and Stephen's parents and sisters. So like it was a lot of people, and we went to four different places over a period of over a month. And it was just like our one big like F you trip post-exit.

    5. SPSam Parr1:09:03

       [laughs]

    6. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:03

       And I think a lot of people are like, "What items did you buy?" Like, I still don't even have a Birkin. Like they're like, "What piece of this did you buy?" You know.

    7. SPShaan Puri1:09:10

       [laughs]

    8. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:10

       I'm like, "I want experiences. I want memories. I want all these things." And so have we done it that since? No. Are we gonna do that every year? No.

    9. SPShaan Puri1:09:19

       Was it even fun, or was that like planning a wedding? [laughs]

    10. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:21

        You know-

    11. SPSam Parr1:09:22

        Yeah, 20 people for a month. That's tough.

    12. SPShaan Puri1:09:23

        I don't think I would enjoy that. [laughs]

    13. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:23

        I almost have PTSD on it, but I don't wanna sound like ungrateful. But yes, 'cause then we're on there, and you don't have, um, like i- it's so new within it, so you still feel a little uncomfortable spending money too, and so you haven't worked through those emotions. And then you're like, "Hey, I'm going to the spa," and then seven people raise their hands that they wanna go.

    14. SPShaan Puri1:09:40

        [laughs]

    15. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:40

        Then I'm on the call making seven people spa appointments.

    16. SPShaan Puri1:09:43

        [laughs]

    17. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:44

        So yes, it was... And then you're like the reservations and the food and the travel of it all. So yeah, I would not recommend it even though-

    18. SPShaan Puri1:09:50

        [laughs]

    19. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:50

        ... it was a once in lifetime thing, and, uh, it was m- marvelous and very blessed.

    20. SPSam Parr1:09:55

        [laughs] Where'd you go?

    21. AEAllison Ellsworth1:09:57

        Uh, we went to, uh, Tuscany, Lake Como, Montenegro, and Scotland.

    22. SPShaan Puri1:10:02

        There you go.

    23. SPSam Parr1:10:03

        Well, you actually, this sounds almost a little like silly, but you're, you're a very, you and Stephen are both very fun follows on Instagram. You guys have a lot of fun. Do you have, this is the silly part, but how do you think about like having fun? Like do you purposely-

    24. SPShaan Puri1:10:17

        Do you have a framework for your fun? [laughs]

    25. SPSam Parr1:10:19

        Well, h- let me explain why. Like my, my wife and I just started doing like a, a, the very simple date night, but it's like on the calendar. And I'm like, "Oh, we had to schedule this. I didn't think, I thought we could be impromptu, but we couldn't. We had to schedule this." But you've au- you've amped it up. Like you guys look like you have a ton of fun. Tell me, it sounds like Shaan was making fun of me, but you actually might have that.

    26. AEAllison Ellsworth1:10:38

        So I think somewhere along the way we were taught that being serious equals being successful. And then we f- we were kind of taught that like fun is a distraction, and that if you're serious, you should look serious and act serious and all of these things, and I'm so here to like throw that theory out the window. And I think it isn't a distraction. I think it's fuel. I think it's fuel for like not burning out in life. I think it's the ability to, like you should be having fun at work, should be having fun in your life, and it actually fuels that success. And so like that's actually been something like me and Stephen talk about all the time is like the second we're not having fun, whether you're working hard, you shouldn't be doing that. So it's like all these people that talk about hating their jobs and this stuff, like, ugh, that's such a toxic environment. And I think it's like how we operated even at Poppi was it was fun. You know, the, the ability to put myself out there fully, awkwardly, authentically, like online and doing crazy dances, like it, it was the culture within Poppi too. We were having fun. And so, you know, the other day someone was like, "Why do you talk like that?" And, "Your voice is annoying," and like, "You are doing fit checks," and like all this stuff. And I was like, "Because I want to, and I'm a confident queen, and I'm obsessed." And like, "Why does it bother you?" Like you're not having fun.

    27. SPShaan Puri1:11:53

        [laughs]

    28. AEAllison Ellsworth1:11:53

        And so I think it's this ability to live life, not take it so serious that's like, I don't know, don't you guys feel that too?

    29. SPShaan Puri1:12:02

        Preach.

    30. SPSam Parr1:12:03

        Yeah, well, the, the part that I, I don't know if Shaan struggles with this, the part that I have got sucked into was like, to be successful, you have to be serious.

Episode duration: 1:14:20