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My First MillionFrom High School Dropout To $952 Million At 33 | Jess Mah Interview (#526)
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CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 7:13
Why Jess Mah Is Worth Knowing: Shaan's Preview and First Impression
Shaan previews the episode, describing Jess as an under-the-radar entrepreneur with a roughly $950 million combined track record. He tells how they met at a dinner, from a friend's praise to her service-dog vest and her mention of bold science bets.
- •Shaan says the best episodes feature impressive people you haven't heard of
- •A friend called Jess the most impressive entrepreneur he'd ever met
- •Signals Shaan noticed: the dog's service vest bought on Amazon and her casual mention of bold science bets
- •Shaan warns the episode includes open talk about jets, tax write-offs and lifestyle
- •Jess says she is a homebody running 10 companies and plans to add more
- 7:13 – 13:37
Holdcos, Hard Tech, and Jess's Background
Shaan frames Jess as sitting at the intersection of two trends: personal holdcos and doing hard things. Jess then recounts Indinero, the YC path via Sam Altman, and why she stopped being CEO after her boyfriend died.
- •Most personal holdcos are small acquisitions, while Jess's mixes in big venture bets
- •Jess built Indinero for a decade without traditional VC funding and survived near-insolvency
- •She noticed many billionaires were holding-company investors rather than CEOs
- •After her boyfriend's death she hired a CEO and asked what she'd do if she weren't afraid of failure
- •She also runs a litigation fintech and other businesses she keeps quiet about
- 13:37 – 18:36
Facing Fear of Failure and Being a Beginner
Shaan shares how the same question led him to start the podcast. Both discuss the insecurity of being a beginner and giving yourself a blank check to learn.
- •Shaan wrote out three life paths and chose to pursue the Tim Ferriss-style path
- •Jess asked how she'd handle feeling like a beginner after a decade as a CEO
- •Shaan cites Moiz Ali's line that he'd know everything about deodorant in six months
- •Asking the question isn't enough because the fear remains
- •Jess uses meditation and focuses on enjoying learning
- 18:36 – 21:14
Getting Into Biotech with a C in Biology
Shaan asks if Jess is a science genius. She explains her recurring school nightmares, the Elizabeth Holmes fear, and how she hired a tutor and brought in experts.
- •Jess got Cs in biology and still has nightmares about flunking
- •Seeing Elizabeth Holmes' fall made her afraid of going to prison
- •She decided to try anyway, hired a biology tutor and absorbed the material
- •Her method is bringing in people smarter than she is
- •Shaan had put her on a pedestal as a genius
- 21:14 – 25:49
What Would You Do as a Billionaire? Teaching and Schools
Jess asks what Shaan would do with a billion in the bank. He tells of the Twitch founder who wouldn't show up for free and says he'd teach, possibly building a school.
- •Jess asks friends what they'd do with a billion and no current work
- •Shaan's story: a founder admitted he wouldn't work if given $100 million
- •Shaan says the podcast is what he'd do regardless of money
- •He'd teach, either through content or a campus school
- •Jess is interested in a school for creative, quirky people
- 25:49 – 32:31
The Danger of Waiting and Resourcefulness
Jess says it's dangerous to wait on dreams, and Shaan recounts his boss's advice to just do the thing and Tony Robbins' resourcefulness talk. This leads to Jess's idea of manifestation companies.
- •Jess says waiting lets life priorities fill the space and dreams never happen
- •Shaan's manager at Twitch told him to go straight to what he wants
- •Tony Robbins' TED talk: resourcefulness is the master skill
- •Jess hires experts for time and raises money through an investor relations team
- •They coin the 'manifestationco' as an alternative to the holdco
- 32:31 – 36:57
Bold Science and Future Possibilities
Shaan asks about realistic scientific breakthroughs. Jess discusses lab-made eggs, artificial embryos, living to 120, and defines bold science as fixing root causes, using cancer as an example.
- •Jess expects eggs made from genetic material within about five years
- •Artificial embryos have reached only about six weeks
- •She thinks lifespans could extend by 30% and people should plan to live to 120
- •Bold science targets root causes instead of incremental gains
- •Her cancer company aims to rehabilitate cells rather than kill them
- 36:57 – 40:30
Getting on the Plane: Meeting Belly to Belly
Jess explains her habit of flying to meet people in person. Shaan's uncle's phrase 'belly to belly' frames it, and Jess scores in-person at 10 versus one or two for calls.
- •Jess flies to meet people for single dinners, by jet or Southwest ticket
- •A billionaire flew in from South America to meet her, which made her want to be friends
- •She is flying to The Bahamas to hear an older billionaire's life lessons
- •Jess rates belly to belly at 10, a call at one and Zoom at two
- 40:30 – 47:05
Cold Outreach as a Teen and the Server Business
Jess says she got meetings at 16 by cold emailing founders. Shaan asks about her teenage years, and she describes her server business, being bullied, and dropping out.
- •At 16 she cold emailed founders including the Reddit and Justin.tv teams and Mark Benioff
- •At 13 she started a dedicated server and colocation business to pay for gaming
- •The business made hundreds of thousands a year while she slept five hours a night
- •She was bullied even in the computer club and dropped out of high school in sophomore year
- •She went to Simon's Rock college early, and they agree to plan a school belly to belly
- 47:05 – 59:24
Billionaire Secrets: Taxes, Coaching and Health Optimization
Jess says billionaires obsess over tax strategy and she gathers advice from multiple top tax professionals. She also describes coaches, CEO groups, and a concierge-doctor longevity program.
- •Tax optimization affects compounding, and billionaires employ the best strategists
- •Jess compiles advice from many tax professionals rather than relying on one accountant
- •She argues spending even 5 to 10% of your time on taxes would pay off
- •She uses two coaches and a monthly CEO group like YPO
- •Her longevity program includes supplements, exosome IVs and biological-age testing at roughly $15-25k a year, which she calls the 80/20 of Bryan Johnson
- 59:24 – 1:07:14
Yachts, Jets, Exotic Cars and the Tax Logic of Luxury
Jess explains that expensive assets often make tax sense. She walks through plane depreciation and exotic cars that hold value, then Shaan discusses money taboos and the Conor McGregor quote.
- •A friend's $30 million yacht gives a write-off and charter income
- •Jess's plane gave a bigger write-off than her cash down payment, though bonus depreciation is shrinking
- •Some exotic cars can be sold for as much as paid
- •Shaan says people can choose inspiration or bitterness at others' wealth
- •Jess suggests reading others' success as a sign more is coming to you
- 1:07:14 – 1:12:59
Lessons from Paul Graham on Sam Altman and Standout Founders
Shaan asks about Sam Altman, and Jess recalls asking Paul Graham about the most successful people. She summarizes the traits he named and Shaan shares how a farming conference sparked a company.
- •Jess says Graham put Sam Altman on his list and that it was less about intelligence
- •Traits: grit, unconventional approaches, combining ideas from many fields, and going far to meet the right people
- •Jess wants to be interesting enough to be invited back
- •Graham's large library inspired her to learn random topics
- •Shaan says a farming conference led to The Milk Road
- 1:12:59 – 1:19:30
Bioelectricity, Mike Levin and Jess's Biotech Companies
Jess explains her biotech holdco built around Mike Levin's bioelectricity research and how she met him and hired a drug development lead. She describes CellJabu and Anthrobots.
- •Levin argues bioelectricity, not genetics, drives much of development, like software versus hardware
- •Experiments grew an eyeball elsewhere on a tadpole without genetic modification
- •Funding dried up after Paul Allen died, so Jess stepped in via a friend's introduction
- •She hired Tom, who took a drug through FDA approval for $16 million, to do diligence
- •CellJabu targets drug resistance and Anthrobots develops programmable biobots
- 1:19:30 – 1:25:04
Mission Before Money and Where to Find Jess
They discuss growing babies from genetic material and doing science for fun. Shaan cites Zuckerberg's 'make money to build great products', and Jess shares her contact details and email-guessing story.
- •Jess describes a future where a baby could grow from raw genetic material, not in the next 10 to 20 years
- •She says not everything has to be for profit and mission thinking leads to bigger ideas
- •Shaan cites Zuckerberg's line about making money to build great products
- •Jess felt she was wasting her capability doing bookkeeping software
- •She is at mahway.com and guessed Marc Benioff's email address
