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My First MillionHow Derek Went From $0 To +$100M With Supplements | More Plates More Dates
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EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 13,957 words- 0:00 – 7:15
Intro
- SPShaan Puri
I, I don't know what you're doing per month, but I would not be shocked if this was doing between 6 and 8 million a month in revenue. Blink twice if I'm right. [laughs]
- DEDerek
Yeah, you're, uh, you guys are pretty, you know, on point with your ballpark. [upbeat music]
- SPShaan Puri
All right. What's up? We got Derek from More Plates More Dates here. Derek, I made a fatal mistake before this podcast. I don't know if you know this, but, um, I was doing research last night. I was like, "Okay, I gotta be prepped. Gotta be ready to go." I've been following you for a while, but I said, "Let me just make sure I- I- I- I button-up here." And I go to your subreddit.
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
R/moreplatesmoredates.
- DEDerek
To be, to be clear, this is not, like, my subreddit. I didn't start it.
- SPShaan Puri
Correct.
- DEDerek
But anyway.
- SPShaan Puri
But I didn't realize this at the time.
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay. So I'm on this subreddit thinking it's your subreddit, thinking these are just polite, civil, faithful fans. In fact, it says there's 163,000 faithfuls. That's how they call the members.
- DEDerek
Oh.
- SPShaan Puri
Uh, it is a top 1%, uh, subreddit, so you're doing really well. And I say, "Hey, I'm interviewing, uh, Derek tomorrow. He's coming on our pod. We're gonna hang out. What should we talk about?" And I said, "You know, give me some ideas."
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Hoping that this, you know... And I, I did this, like, at, you know, oh, let's see, time of post was, like, 1:00 AM. And I go to sleep. And I wake up, and I say, "Oh, let me just check that real quick. Maybe somebody had some really thoughtful questions."
- DEDerek
Ah.
- SPShaan Puri
Here's the breakdown: 98% of them wanna know, um, how big your penis is.
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
That's the, the n- number one comment by far. Everybody said the same exact thing. I don't know if that's an inside joke or you just have some really, really eager fans. Uh-
- DEDerek
Uh
- SPShaan Puri
... and then the second was like, "Bro, you needed to know this is a trolling subreddit. This is not a... This is not the serious subreddit of, like [laughs] people trying to have a real conversation. Like, you didn't, you didn't know what you were getting yourself into." And sure enough, I did not.
- SPSam Parr
The third comment was [laughs] "Bring a ruler." [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Yeah.
- DEDerek
Jesus.
- SPShaan Puri
They're very creative.
- DEDerek
No, I, I, I can imagine, uh, what kind of stuff you got, had an onslaught of for sure. There's a decent amount of trolling and, uh, I don't know, just, like, shit posting that goes on there. But there is some insightful stuff. Like, I, I'm a moderator on it. I didn't start it, but I do check in time to time, and I've been pretty shocked how much it's ramped up. Like, I don't know what a-
- SPShaan Puri
Well, did it begin-
- DEDerek
... I don't know what a good subreddit is in size, but it seems like-
- SPSam Parr
This is a good one.
- DEDerek
Okay.
- 7:15 – 12:50
Why Pickup artists are often great entrepreneurs
- DEDerek
right there.
- SPShaan Puri
And we're gonna talk about your, your, the business side. 'Cause it, I, uh, uh, it's unclear, but I believe you built a, a nine-figure business, so over $100 million business, uh, or collection of businesses off of your channel. So, uh, we'll talk about the business stuff in a second. But I wanna start with, with this kinda pickup thing because I just had Mark Manson on the podcast, the guy who wrote The Subtle Art of Not Giving a, a, a Fuck.
- DEDerek
Okay.
- SPShaan Puri
And so he, um, and he started also. Now he's, like, kind of like all about, you know, uh, life advice and, um, you know, self-help and things. You know, he, he, he's one of the most popular self-help authors ever. He wrote a book with Will Smith. He's like, like, super legit now. But he started off in the pickup world, and he had this blog. He was named Entropy, and his blog was all about picking up, uh, picking up women. And I've noticed a few of these backgrounds that seem to lead to these, uh, like there's a few backgrounds, like origin stories like a superhero would have, that lead to interesting people. So I've noticed, like elite gamers, so people who are, like, hardcore gamers, they tend to become, they c- they can become really successful in the game of business afterwards if they s- so choose. Or debate. Debate lends itself very well to people who end, end up being, you know, leaders, CEOs types of people 'cause they're, they're, they think a certain way and they're able to articulate themselves. And now another one I'm noticing is pickup. Uh, and I'm curious if you think there's anything to that or am I just reading into it? Is there, are there any life skills, core life skills that you really get from that?
- DEDerek
Yeah, it's weird. I was actually, uh, I had lunch with Andrew Wilkinson a few weeks ago, and he said the same thing about pickup. He thinks that a lot of people come from that world. And I don't know if it's just like a, a feeling of inadequacy that drove you to the pickup stuff to begin with, which also translates to your, like, weird drive in an entrepreneurial aspect that kind of takes you to this level most people simply won't feel, you know, reasonable or something they, I don't know, wanna strive for. But I think there's definite overlap there. And m- I don't know if it's like a [laughs] emotionally healthy thing always or a mentally healthy thing, but there's definite overlap where people are, uh, I think, trying to optimize all areas of their life, whether it is social dynamics or what have you, and that obviously translates into business. Like, for me, job interviews became infinitely easier after I learned how to walk up to attractive women. 'Cause if you can walk up to an attractive, you know, 10 out of 10 and not get nervous, going into a job interview is just like, is butter. Whereas before, I used to be super nervous, you know, you're w- in the waiting room, uh, you know, being extremely, I don't know, overthinking the entire situation, and it's, to you, anything that could be anxiety-inducing is just out of sight, out of mind. So for me, I think there is a huge overlap. Business presentations became so much easier, became more confident in rooms, meeting new people, whether it was talking to dudes or talking to chicks, didn't matter. And, um, yeah, I think there's still huge upside, not to be like a dirt bag, which equates to being an entrepreneur. I wouldn't suggest that, but there are certain, uh, social skills and, I don't know, like, uh, EQ you can gain from the pickup stuff that I think translates.
- SPSam Parr
Shaan, you didn't, y- you didn't study that stuff?
- SPShaan Puri
I, I did. Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, 'cause I, I read all the books. I, I bought some of the courses. I went to, like, an event before. Like, I was, like, really into that because it was rooted in a sense of, like, I feel inadequate and I wanna meet women and, like, be liked. Um, but it totally carries over to sales, you know, like the rule... Th- there's, like, a three-second, there's, like, a three-second rule. It's like as, as soon as you see a, a woman that's, like, beautiful, you have three seconds to go talk to her. Or, like, there's, I mean, I used, I used all of it. I loved it.
- SPShaan Puri
I wouldn't call myself an artist, though. I don't think I made it to pickup artist.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
It's like a Subway sandwich artist.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- DEDerek
Yeah, exactly.
- SPShaan Puri
Are you sure about that? [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
And, and half, half of those guys ended up, like, with horrible lives as they got older. Like, they're, like, 50 years old, and they're still doing this shit, and it's like, dude, that's not cool. It's cool to be settled down, actually. It's cool to have, like, a relationship. And so, like, the pickup artist community does a really good job of teaching young men how to be confident and meet a woman, but then half of them do a really bad job of saying, "All right. Now, here's how you remain loyal and how you become a good partner," and things like that. But they just get you to the interview-
- DEDerek
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... or the first date, but they suck after that. You know what I mean? It, it's, it's, like, horrible at how to actually be a man and treat people respectfully.
- DEDerek
Yeah. I think one of the best takeaways from the pickup artist world is being able to review their lives from pre-success, being losers, essentially, to peak success, having this incredible, you know, dating life with diversity and choice, and then what happens to them thereafter. The younger guys have the luxury of being able to watch the entire timeline and see, did they end up somewhere that I would aspire to be, and why or why not? How do I avoid getting down that path? 'Cause when I was, you know, coming up and learning about this stuff, too, it was, even getting on a date was a task in itself and an achievement if you were able to even muster up a dating life from scratch with women that were not introduced to you. Through your friend circles or whatever, being able to meet people cold was, uh, like the floodgates open in terms of opportunity. And thereafter, you know, as long as you were sleeping with women, you, you thought you ended the game and you were, you know, good to go, but you don't realize thereafter there's a whole nother element of how do you actually become happy, have successful relationships. No one taught you that stuff. So being able to see the, I don't know, the before and after of like the Neil Strauss's of the world or whatever and what happened
- 12:50 – 21:30
Derek’s business empire
- DEDerek
to them, I think is, uh, pretty insightful.
- SPSam Parr
I wanna ask you about some of your businesses and how you're actually managing all this, because you have a lot going on. So there's Gorilla Mind, which it looks like that's, uh, pre-workout and creatine.
- DEDerek
You gotta tell me what you'd name it, bro. I know you hate the name, right?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. Um, [laughs] what was this other one we had? We had this other one called, uh, [laughs] what was that one, Shaan? It was called like Deer Killer or something. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Oh, the, the deer antler spray. What, what, the deer antler one?
- SPSam Parr
Oh, Bucked Up?
- SPShaan Puri
Bucked Up. Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Bucked Up. [laughs]
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Well, my, my thing with you, Derek, is like I trust you, like I trust you a lot, and I buy what you say.
- SPShaan Puri
Totally agree.
- SPSam Parr
It, it reminds me in the same form of like you remember when we were younger, like NO-Xplode and that stuff?
- DEDerek
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
And I remember taking that and I was like, "This is awesome," and also like, "This might be illegal." Like, it was like-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- DEDerek
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... like, it, it, it, it felt like, like Adderall.
- SPShaan Puri
It feels like I got two hearts right now.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
This is awesome. [laughs]
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
I didn't know anything about it, but I'm like, "I don't know if this is good." But when I think of your brand, I think like I- my values align with your values. But for some reason-
- DEDerek
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... the... I, I don't think the name-
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, let's, let's start with this. Objectively, this is working, right? Like I'm looking at the traffic. It looks like it's over a million visitors a month for an e-com store that's doing supplements. Super high margin, uh, high review purchase. Like I, I don't know what you're doing per month, but I would not be shocked if this was doing between 6 and 8 million a month in revenue. Blink twice if I'm right. [laughs]
- DEDerek
Yeah, you're, uh, you guys are pretty, you know, on point with your ballparks. But-
- SPShaan Puri
There we go
- DEDerek
... what I will say is, um, as far as the niche goes... And by the way, that's just like I th- I don't know if Amazon is equal to our Shopify, but we're starting to get into retail too, and the traffic numbers are oftentimes quite misleading, so I don't know what you guys use for that, but I've start- I don't know if, how much I read into those traffic statistics. Do you use Similarweb, or what do you, what do you-
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, this w- I was looking at Similarweb. But, but I have like a f-
- DEDerek
Okay
- 21:30 – 28:00
Degrees of difficulty with Derek’s businesses
- DEDerek
I would say. But that company is me and Chris as well.
- SPSam Parr
What's crazy is that, like, you're going, you're, like, doing more challenging problems. So, like, I, I have no idea how challenging a supplement company is, but let's just say that that's, like, a two or a three out of 10. And then, uh, Marek Health would be, like, a six or a seven out of 10, or even higher, 'cause there's, like, actually start- starting to deal with, like, regulation. And then I know that you, I think you said it here and you said it on videos, you're thinking about doing a, a compound pharmacy, uh, which, uh, like, for, the, which sounds like the hardest. And-
- DEDerek
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... like, I, I, I don't know too much about it, but does that basically mean, like, you're actually getting the commodities from whoever you're getting, and you have to make sure they're safe and that you're handling them safely, and I guess compounding means you're combining, uh, and shipping them out to the Marek Healths of the world? Is that right?
- DEDerek
Yeah. So for example, when you get prescribed your testosterone, for example, from a clinic like Marek Health or maybe Own, I'm not sure how they operate, but in general, they will fill a prescription through a pharmacy like an Empower or a fill in the blank compounding pharmacy that is also having their own markup on medication, is the ones receiving the active drugs and creating a finished product for you to prescribe. And just logically, any time you can try and get more of the supply chain to control the margin, that's gonna be beneficial, I would imagine. At, at which point it becomes a logical and worthwhile use of your time though is to be determined, 'cause similar to the manufacturing side on dietary supplements, although there's different levels of quality control and oversight, you know, you still have to be GMP certified and, you know, have a certain, uh, level of oversight in your facility. And is the bandwidth allocated to doing that taking away from your, what your bread and butter is on the private labeling or marketing side of things? Depends on the person, I guess, 'cause some companies kill it just being manufacturers and not even having a company that they sell stuff through. So-
- SPSam Parr
Empower is the guys that a lot of people go to, I, I believe, right? How, how big do you think that business is?
- DEDerek
100 million-plus probably.
- SPSam Parr
What, what could that be worth? How, what would, like, what would a multiple on that business be? I don't even know what those would sell for. Is that considered just a manufacturing business?
- DEDerek
Well, it's tough, because they definitely have some level of trust factor that other pharmacies don't have for, even for me, if I was to get a compounded testosterone from Empower versus from some rinky-dink compounding pharmacy, I would 100% trust Empower more than fill in the blank, even though they have supposedly, you know, same levels of quality control, rigor, licensing, et cetera. Um, there is pretty significant variability sometimes in the compounding world, plus, minus on certain drugs even. As shocking as that sounds, what you see on the label, even in the pharmaceutical world, is not always what you're getting in compounding.
- SPSam Parr
That just seems like such an intimidating business to go down, down the path.
- DEDerek
Yeah. Fortunately for me, and the- It's something that it's, it's actually wild 'cause Gorilla Mind is probably the thing that has the highest level of difficulty for me because I'm intimately involved in product formulation, whereas on the telemed side, fortunately there is no need for me to... I don't sit there making m- medication formulations. You have a preset, you know, testosterone concentration or fill-in-the-blank drug. I don't control all that, or need any creativity or insight into what goes into that because it's a very tightly regulated thing, whereas in the supplement world, people will just look at our label and rip us off often. So I am often the guy who has to be creative, come up with innovative ideas, and I don't want something to come out with my name on it that I don't have significant, you know, personal time investment into that formula that goes out. So, you know, for me, the Gorilla Mind formulation and product rollout side of things is the most time-consuming. So I would say Gorilla is, like, six or seven out of 10, and Marek is, you know, like a two out of 10 for me-
- SPSam Parr
Oh, interesting
- DEDerek
... personally. Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
We had, um, Doug Demuro on. Do you know who Doug Demuro is? He's a car YouTuber.
- DEDerek
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSam Parr
He's awesome. He's cool. He, um, you know, built this thing up to, like, four or five million subscribers, then he launched this thing, Cars and Bids, which, uh, he sold a portion of the business. Um, and Cars and Bids could be a multi-hundred million dollar business, I think. Uh, I think it's awesome. And, um, but, like, going d- to, to compare you to him, that'd be like him starting to make, like, car parts.
- DEDerek
Yeah. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Uh, and I'm like, "Dude, Doug, why don't you just, like, make the best car make- marketplace ever-
- DEDerek
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... and just, like, crush that?" Because, like, if I think of, like, you, Derek, launching, uh... And, and I don't know much about this space. When I think about you launching, like, a pharmacy, I'm like, "Uh, man, that seems like you're leveraging yourself pretty high. Like, what if that fucks everything up?" Like, as opposed to-
- DEDerek
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... ki- kicking ass at these other two things.
- DEDerek
I'm not dead set on it, so I imagine during, uh, I don't know, discovery from buying a company or just the process of fleshing out all the details, I will probably uncover that, s- you know, leaning into our bread and butter is probably more worthwhile. So despite it being on my radar, similarly to the manufacturing side of supplements or energy drinks, it's probably not worth our time or money right now. So, you know-
- SPSam Parr
But the-
- DEDerek
... to be determined in the future, but-
- SPSam Parr
There, there's one reason why I imagine you should do it, which is it's pretty dope. Like, you know, like there-
- DEDerek
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
There, there's still, like, there's still, like, that component of, like, this seems very challenging, but, like, this would be sick if you could actually pull it off. You know what I mean? Like, there is-
- DEDerek
For sure
- SPSam Parr
... that factor of, like, it is, it's... You know, entrepreneurship's art, and that, that's a cool challenge.
- 28:00 – 39:25
What are Derek’s business goals?
- SPShaan Puri
you... Uh, like, what's your business goal? So, like, uh, you shifted your focus. You're like, "Okay, I went into this bodybuilder, dating, like, number one priority." Then you're like, "All right, making money." Entrepreneurship became the main focus for, like, the last p- period of time, last season. Um, what's your business goal? 'Cause we've met a bunch of people that are like, some of them take this, like, "Oh, shucks, I don't know, I'm just trying to, you know, help people," like, type of attitude, which I rarely believe, to be honest. Um, and then there's a l- lot of other people, like Rob Dyrdek came on, and he's like, "Dude, I was like... Yeah, I was, like, a skateboard kid, then ended up doing this, this. I ended up on TV, still wasn't making any money, and then I finally realized, like, oh, like in the la- like in this last, like, five-year period, I figured out, like, okay, I need to go from rookie white belt to black belt, and I made it my focus, I made it my goal, and I said, 'I wanna make a billion dollars,' and I decided, all right, to do that, what do I need to do? I need to own my own production company instead of just being a talent. So I'm now I'm the talent and the production company. And then I brought people in, and I started investing, and I own real estate, and I..." He cr- and he, like, was very articulate about it, and our audience loved it 'cause they were like, "Dude, I had no idea he actually kinda had that part of his brain and had, had, like, intentionally set a goal and m- made a plan and started figuring it out." W- what's... How would I describe it for you? What's your... You know, 'cause you started off just doing this kinda for fun, but then the business opportunities came up, came about. What, h- what's your goals, and how did that come about?
- DEDerek
Um, yeah. I should probably revisit my goals, 'cause I don't really have a firm, concrete, uh, objective. I do know from a value standpoint, I think Gorilla Mind and Marek Health are billion-dollar companies in the future at some point, and I do, uh, very much intend for them to get there, and I strongly believe they will.
- SPSam Parr
I, I mean, that, that sounds like a good goal. I mean-
- DEDerek
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
I mean-
- DEDerek
If I was to put something on paper as a financial metric of sorts, those would be, you know, two concrete ones I could say in my near, near-ish future I foresee as, um, doable and I wanna make sure happen. But this, I don't, I don't necessarily wanna sell them either. It's just kind of a vanity metric or something that you're chasing, almost like a million subscribers on YouTube. Once you get there, [laughs] you know, it's the same old the next day. Nothing changes other than your objective success and how you feel about yourself to some extent maybe, and how people perceive you, but... And maybe you have more flexibility in what you can do. But, you know, that's kinda how I see it too, is once the businesses, businesses get to a certain point, it's just gonna be more of the same, um, probably. I don't know. I, I can't imagine there's... Like, especially from the Marek Health side of things, it's a company that I'm so passionate about preventative medicine- If something is working that is literally me being able to at scale educate and impart value about that, it's hard to see me deviating from it to be able to do what? That again? It doesn't really... I don't know. Maybe I'll change my mindset as I get a bit older and I have kids or something, but right now, not really, uh. That- that's kind of all I could say as far as, uh, concrete goals on a piece of paper financially, and also my path in terms of what I'm passionate about.
- SPSam Parr
Have you raised financing or funding for any of these businesses?
- DEDerek
No, never.
- SPSam Parr
Dude, that's crazy because, like, all right, you have 1.8, 1.8 million subscribers, 1.9, close to two million. That's a lot, but that's not a lot a lot. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that-
- DEDerek
Mm-hmm
- SPSam Parr
... that's like if someone grinds for 10 years, like, you could get there. What's crazy is that d- I mean, that's just a huge number to have two multi-billion dollar, two, sh- let's just even say 100 million plus brands off the back of 1.9 million subscribers. That's a significant amount. Uh-
- DEDerek
Well, yeah, you have to keep in mind, too, our influencer marketing is pretty dialed, especially on the Gorilla side. And we have a lot of people who believe in what I'm doing and my passion and path forward, too, and trust me. So they will also trust that I'm going to put them in the best spot to accrue the most value from whatever company they're partnering with, and have mutually beneficial relationships as they develop their business careers, too. So especially on Gorilla, there is no way we'd be anywhere near where we are. Well, I don't know what we'd actually be at, but a lot of our influencers behind us are huge needle movers, huge. Like, I would say our combined following is, like, I don't know, in the tens of millions, if not 100 million plus.
- SPSam Parr
Is it contingent on you getting more popular do you think, or do you think that they've grown beyond that?
- DEDerek
Yeah, I think they're big enough they can be their own thing. And I think fortunately for me, uh, it has allowed me the flexibility to reel back on the content frequency a bit because I used to be very heavily output oriented, which I should be still, but the trust factor is very high, and the success of the company stands, has a, it has its own, I don't know, resume of credibility through what it's done. Like being, I don't know, one of the top-selling pre-workouts on Amazon, for example, against companies I literally bought when I was 17 years old, and edging some of them out now, like, that's wild to me. And those kind of things help us get into retail and help us do things from a global expansion standpoint that aren't contingent on me. Sure, it helps that I'm a face of the brand, and what I've done, and you know that when you work with us, I'm gonna be the one formulating your products, too, for example. Like, when influencers work with us, if you're gonna have a collaborative pre-workout that drops, knowing that I'm indirectly endorsing it and making it for you, too, is a huge plus, whereas most owners are not even faces of the brand and no one even knows who they are. So that kind of stuff, I think, gives us the latitude and flexibility to grow moving forward outside of having this influencer treadmill where we're having to acquire new people to get exposure to then sell more. I think there is absolutely a diminishing returns point. And for us at this point, it's very, uh, global expansion oriented and retail, going heavier into retail on some of the, uh, some of the products like the energy drinks and whatnot. But, um, to be determined. It's all, it's all, uh, a bit of an experiment to be honest.
- SPShaan Puri
I went, I went and read your blog and, uh, prep for this and I read a bunch of, bunch of the posts and you said something. You said, "When I was 18, what were my priorities?" You said, "Well, I wanted to make more money. I wanted to date hordes of gorgeous women. I wanna have a killer physique, and I wanted to do well in school to set me up for my fu- future." And you said, you know, "I had these four goals and those all sounded like totally worth pursuing, and they all sounded like things I should be working on. I'm in school, so I should probably work on school. I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, you know, 18 to 21 years old. I should probably try to date women or work out, um, make money." All of these things seemed like good ideas at the same time, and then you realized, "I should go all in on one of these goals right now at the expense of the others." Why did you have that philosophy of go all in on one life goal versus try to have kind of this balance or pursue all four?
- DEDerek
Uh, yeah, it's tough 'cause it's not like I would claim it to be the correct way to live your life, but I think a lot of people live, especially in the entrepreneurial world, in stages. It's almost like seasons of your life, and there are certain seasons where you can complete... Certain things are prerequisites for the other. Um, and I would say that when it comes to, um, getting women, for example, when you are young, you do not need exorbitant amounts of funds. You actually don't even need to have the ability to support somebody in a long-term relationship. [laughs] If you're young, you can have a piece of crap car and live with your parents and still crush it with literally, like objectively 10 out of 10 girls in your age bracket. And being able to kind of get that season of your life out of the way and develop those social skills, at least at the time when I was broke too, I felt like was worth getting out of my way, so to speak, before I went down the road of entrepreneurship, which I knew would consume the majority of my free time. And dating, especially large amounts of women when you're trying to kind of, I don't know, get your anxiety out of your system entirely and become even used to this dynamic of being out with attractive women, um, it's not something that I feel you can juggle both simultaneously. Dating is a full-time job, honestly. Like, if you're single, you can definitely agree with what I'm saying, that it can be as m- consuming as a full-time job in itself. So for me, you know, trying to... And I also was way more hardcore about bodybuilding at the time, so I would actually dedicate Blocks of time to cutting and bulking phases. And the cutting phases would be getting striking distance of stage-ready condition, which is something that is super mentally sapping and demanding of your body, and more extreme amounts of cardio, caloric restriction, et cetera. And it's not... Trying to do everything at the same time, I feel like you'll just fail or do everything kind of half-ass, essentially. You will not get anything done with exceptional quality. So that was at least my thought process and logic at the time, and I would still probably agree with it even though that blog is... I don't even remember the last time I wrote an article on that blog. It is super outdated, but it is something I would still, um, resonate with probably. I think people should be segregating things into seasons, personally.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. I mean, we talk about seasons a lot. And, um, I think, like, what's that quote, uh, Shaan, about the lion and the cow? Like, cows graze, lions rest and then pounce, and, uh, like, oftentimes it's a little bit easier in business to be like the lion instead of just like, you know, uh, f- instead of, like, a constant 40 hours a week. Maybe, like, sprints is, is a little bit easier. Um, and I was watching some of your videos. I, I remember there was one recently where I think you got back from Europe. You were in Europe, and it sounded like you were with a girlfriend or a wife or something like that. Um, so I assume you're in some type of long relationship. Ha- ha- ha- has building these companies been a lot easier once you're, you have more stability as, as opposed to dating?
- DEDerek
Yeah, dude, it's, uh, night and day. Try- if I was single right now, I would get half as much work done probably.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah.
- DEDerek
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Dude, having an... Like, I, I remember when I was building my first company, um, there was probably twice a week I would lay on the floor-
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... and I'm like, "This isn't gonna work. I feel miserable. Uh, like, I'm just gonna quit." And, like, having a spouse, or she was my fiance or girlfriend at the time, to be like, "No, you got this," like, that is just like, it was like the greatest thing ever. That's when I knew. I'm like, dude, having a, a, a wife is so much better than-
- SPShaan Puri
She's like, "Also, move out of the way."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
"I'm trying to get to the kitchen."
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
You're just laying on the floor. What are you... [laughs]
- DEDerek
No, yeah. I would... I, I, yeah, I totally agree with that sentiment, for sure. [upbeat music] I can't find this client info.
- SPSpeaker
Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out-of-sync spreadsheets or dueling databases. HubSpot. Grow better.
- 39:25 – 43:45
Derek’s investment portfolio
- SPShaan Puri
Have you figured out what you wanna do with your money? So do you, uh... Have you learned kind of like, you know, how to either spend it in ways that are interesting or invest it? Uh, how much time and effort have you put into that? Like I said, what do you do with your money?
- DEDerek
I've learned what not to do with it, which is good.
- SPSam Parr
What have you done? What have you done? [laughs]
- DEDerek
So, um, don't go with wealth management portfolio, uh, guys who will... even if it's with a big bank, 'cause they get their management fees even if they suck, so... And oftentimes they will make it sound like they're doing great things when objectively they're underperforming a basic, you know, index fund. So I would be very weary of that as a wealthy entrepreneur, 'cause a lot of those guys are the primary targets of those, you know, wealth management guys. And they will shockingly stay with them for years despite underperforming just objectively. And then, you know, they just get, uh, get rinsed the entire time while the management fees make the other guys rich. So I've, uh, learned not to do that the hard way. Um, the thing that's tough is on the Canadian side, there is so much more complicated tax planning that goes into it. I've spent more time than I wanna admit on figuring out how to not lose money than actually, like, making money with my money. So, um, it's tough. [laughs] Yeah, like, I'm still figuring... Even figuring out how to put myself in the position most optimally to make my money work for me, but oftentimes even knowing what side of the country I should be keeping it on, it's, it's been a ever-learning process. And there are certain corporate structure things that I've been very hesitant to pour money into, you know, a insurance fund that down the line is gonna build money interest-free, and I can then re- I've been very careful to not dive into any of those before I fully understand them, even though they could make me a lot of money, because I know once you're into some of those things, you can't unravel them. So, you know, as a Canadian, it, it's a lot more complicated, unfortunately, than just dollar cost average into the index, so.
- SPSam Parr
If your, if, if your portfol- you know, let's just say your, you know, we'll do the pie chart thing without... so just percentages, and not including your private businesses, where do you, where do you keep your money? Is it mostly equities, or are you investing, uh, in other private companies? What are you doing with it?
- DEDerek
Um, I do some angel investing, but it's very minor. Like, for example, MediaKit. Uh, you guys are familiar with Kieran. That's how we met. Like, his company, for example, I invested in. Um, I don't know, some, some stuff like that, but not very often. Uh, but primarily it was, you know, wealth management was overseeing a lot of it, and then I realized how not ideal that was and liquidated it all recently at a loss. But, um, yeah, it's just sitting in bank accounts right now doing nothing. It's absurd as hell.
- SPSam Parr
No shit, really?
- DEDerek
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, like, all cash right now.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- DEDerek
I have a decent amount of crypto, but I always forget I have that until somebody asks me, like, "What is your portfolio comprised of?"
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- DEDerek
So I guess technically some crypto. Um, and then I guess it's the value of the businesses and whatever cash sits in those accounts. But yeah, it's, uh, mostly just, just chilling, doing nothing useful.
- SPSam Parr
I re- I remember you, you... I think you bought a Lamborghini or something like that, and you, like, made a video about, like, the hedonatic or, uh, hedonistic treadmill, and you're like, "This is kinda bullshit."
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Is there any... What, what have you spent money on that you think is, uh, thought would make you happy and it was bullshit, versus where you actually, like, where do you like to spend money on and you're like, "This actually makes me happy"?
- DEDerek
That's tough, man, 'cause I don't... Other than that, I haven't really spent egregious amounts of money on anything that I would deem to be irresponsible that was outside of a business capacity. Like, I will invest, you know, always go first class 'cause of the convenience and just legroom [chuckles] and just, like, basic stuff, which is, um... And other than that, I don't really buy anything luxury other than groceries, which, you know, getting high-quality food I think is justified every single time. Um, yeah, I haven't really spent money on anything I could think of off the top of my head that was stupid.
- 43:45 – 52:00
The origin story of More Plates More Dates
- SPShaan Puri
What, uh, what was the origin story for the businesses? So what, what order did they come in, and, uh, what triggered the thought of like, "All right, I need to, um, I need to start this"? 'Cause I think you kind of, you were in the, in an internet marketing affiliate game. Um, when did you transition to like, "I wanna own my own businesses"?
- DEDerek
Yeah. Especially prior to influencer integrations, when I first started affiliate marketing, it was still very SEO-driven, blog-heavy. There was not as much, uh, flat rate, you know, pay per integration type stuff happening, or at least I was not that aware of it if it was happening at scale.
- SPShaan Puri
What were you selling?
- DEDerek
Oh, an array of things. Whatever I used personally, Amazon links to it, et cetera. So I was getting, you know, 5% commissions on shampoo that I would use for hair loss prevention or-
- SPShaan Puri
And was that like beer money or that was like s- like f- like, "Wow, I'm making stupid money doing this somehow"? Like, how, how, how successful were you able to be doing that?
- DEDerek
[chuckles] Well, I guess success is definitely subjective, so at the time I felt extremely. [chuckles] But you know, in proportional terms perhaps not now, but back then that was the stuff that funds your ability to actually start your own businesses. So I would say in that sentiment, definitely successful. And I think the thing that helped me the most, and what I typically recommend people to do as when they're wondering, "What do I even get into as a product or service or what have you?" It's organically integrating things that you already use and truly believe in. 'Cause if you just plug nonsense and you start to be a ad whore essentially, where you just take whatever comes your way when it comes to integrations, even products you don't believe in or care about, and you just become a robot mindlessly reading scripts for, you know, dollars, you kinda get- your credibility goes out the window and people don't listen to your product recommendations anymore. And for me it was always how do I monetize stuff that I use anyways and would tell people for free, "You should use this 'cause I use it." So oftentimes that was taking piddly little affiliate commissions or none on products that I actually used and wanted people to also try to get results with. And that would include, but not limited to, you know, supplements, hair loss prevention products, um, sometimes random diet hack-related things. I don't know. It, it varied significantly, but across the board it was basically what has an affiliate program that is a product I already use and I can get a commission for telling people something I would tell them anyways? And that is how I kinda built up my initial funds to then start some of the businesses that replaced the affiliate recommendations that I would've been making anyways. So it's, it was kinda stemmed from just what i- are the things I'm most passionate about personally, and promote them a- 'cause I would anyways, and then replace them eventually with things that I feel are higher quality and reflect exactly what I would wanna see as a consumer in that niche. So that is kinda how I went down the rabbit hole of dietary supplements. I've always been a formulator. Um, I've always dug very heavily into the chemistry and pharmacology side of things, and it was just an eventual inevitability that I was gonna get into it at some point. And once it became viable financially, that was kind of my, um, segue into that. And then hair loss prevention products, I'd been recommending certain things for years, and that was my segue into, uh, Intelligent Elephant, which is another company. And then telemedicine was... I was making content for years about preventative medicine and how to interpret diagnostics and blood work and hormone optimization and PEDs, ergogenic aids, et cetera, and it was... That was such a no-brainer for me to get into too. So, um, across the board that's kinda what I look for as the highest lever opportunities, uh, at least how I kinda ended up starting those businesses to begin with and funding them.
- SPShaan Puri
We, we had our buddy Saeed on, and what he did was he had a, a high-traffic blog that was helping people out with WordPress. He's like, "Oh yeah, I recommend using this email pop-up." And like he would just basically see, oh, okay, you know, the highest- the things that people click on the most 'cause they're looking for a solution are X. Maybe that's a business I should go into. And so what he would do is he would just go buy that business or buy the number two player, improve it-
- DEDerek
Mm
- SPShaan Puri
... and then make it his recommendation. And he just went systematically. It's almost like you've did that for the body. Uh, you were like, "Cool, I got this high traffic, and I have this ability to get a bunch of high traffic. I can start with affiliates and see what people click, what... You know, even if they have a crappy affiliate program, at least I know that's a category that I know I can drive a lot of, lot of customers to. Maybe I should be the supplier instead of the affiliate."
- DEDerek
Yeah. It's crazy how much stuff has evolved just in the past, I don't know, not even 10, like six or seven years too in terms of where people get their recommendations from. Like SEO is so irrelevant now to where I shop and where most of our customers shop too. Back in the day it was if you're top ranked on Google, maybe for some services it absolutely is still relevant, but for certain products in the e-commerce space and whatnot, it's like no one gives a shit at all. Whereas back in the day if you... it was all about how do I get top ranked on Google for buy fill in the blank or- Top three fill in the blank. And that was, uh... A lot of my affiliate stuff came through my blog articles back then, and lesser YouTube, but now it's so heavily social media.
- SPSam Parr
The New York Times had this article come out a few weeks ago, and it was like, "My guru is better than your guru," or something like that. And it was about how, I mean, this has always been the case, but it's just there's more now and they're bigger, about how audiences will attract... Well, will go towards a certain, like, health and wellness person. So, like, there's you, there's Huberman, but then there's also, um, uh, Mark Sisson. Is that his name? Mark... The, the, the, the older guy who, uh, started a Primal Kitchen. Um, and then there's like five or six or 10 or 20 other ones, and they actually... But the, the article was saying, and this is true, that they say different things. Like, they... Not everyone agrees. So there's like, you know, eat a lot of plants, but then there's like Carnivore MD, and then you-
- DEDerek
Mm-hmm
- SPSam Parr
... you know, you did your whole thing on, uh, the Liver King. Like, they don't... The, the, the, they oftentimes will say, like, different stuff. But you just get behind someone, and you just do whatever they say. Like, if you go, if, if you talk to Andrew Huberman, like the most common question he gets, and I'm sure you get this too, which is, "Just tell me exactly what you do-
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... and I'm gonna do the exact same thing."
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Uh, you know what I mean? But a- and that's... In one hand, that's... On one hand, that's maybe dangerous because it doesn't always apply to each person, but on the other hand, it makes a great ass business because it's just like whatever Derek says, I do and I buy. And I think that you've had like videos where you're like, "My supplement company, like, I'm not going to just make a ton of product because I have to make the quality good, but you guys are buying so much of it that we need like two weeks off in order to restock." Uh, you, you know what I mean? It, so it's like good for you as a business owner.
- DEDerek
Yeah. I think, uh, trust factor is everything nowadays especially 'cause there is so... E- e- especially in the health niche, it is so hard to know who to trust 'cause oftentimes the charlatans will get platformed too because they say outrageous things. Like, you'll see them on big podcasts even sometimes just because they'll say something that seems so contradictory to what is accepted as, you know, scientific fact or whatever, just to get a good hook, not even necessarily because they're the authority or foremost expert in a certain area. And it's super confusing for the layman who is just trying to, you know, learn something, and then they hear 17 different versions of recommendations for something that should be basic. And yeah, trying to... Even what I do too, and I think a lot of people should do when they're self-educating, is find a, you know, handful of people that through all evidence provided are, have highest trust factor and knowledge simultaneously. 'Cause the two coupled are what are going to lead you to what I feel to be actual recommendations that are practical and, um, valuable
- 52:00 – 54:20
How Derek became a health science expert
- DEDerek
rather than just, you know, follow. It's wild how many, you know, bad, uh, educators there are out there, for sure.
- SPShaan Puri
And how did you become an expert? Like, uh, you know, Huberman's like a professor at wherever. He's like a, he's like a, like a Stanford lab or something. Um, you know, you... When I first saw your thing, you were like, oh, I, I, I think I was clicking like some of the videos that were like, what is Conor McGregor taking, or Jon Jones, or whatever. And you're talking about the pulsing effects of picograms of whatever that Jon Jones got popped for, and I was like, how the hell would this guy know? It doesn't even seem like USADA even understands like what the hell's going on. Like, where is the literature of this? Where, how would this random YouTuber know about any of this stuff?
- DEDerek
Um, largely through years of self-education, but also through educating myself through experts and being a... I feel I'm very good at extrapolating out and determining what is valuable information, and then assimilating it into my own consolidated framework. That's one of my strong, uh, strong suits, and it's taken years. I've been researching like a maniac since I was, I don't know, like 10, 10 plus years at this point. So for me, uh, I don't necessarily claim to be an expert. Oftentimes people will, you know, label me as such, but um, you know, I'm just a guy who's a nerd and learns a lot of shit, and it's been, uh, [laughs] it's been good to date. But yeah, a lot of this stuff is available though too, it's just hard to translate into layman's terms. Like somebody who's in the lab de- determining if an assay is going to be implementable for the USADA in the future to catch people doing fill in the blank. The USADA, I don't know, spokespeople don't necessarily understand the chemistry and the science. They're not gonna go out and go into elaborate detail about why you could still get away with microdosing, for example. Like that kind of... Nor is it beneficial for them to assert publicly that it's possible to do such. So a lot of this stuff is just swept under the rug and no one talks about it 'cause they either don't understand it or it's not very, I don't know, readily circulated, so... But it's all publicly available, it's just a matter of being able to dissect
- 54:20 – 1:00:25
Thoughts on Bryan Johnson
- DEDerek
it. So, you know, that's kinda been it.
- SPShaan Puri
What, what do you think of the, uh, the sort of the tech, tech, uh, testosterone movement that's going on? So you got Bezos retires, gets jacked. You got Zuck becoming a MMA fighter. You have, um, who else is, who else is doing it? There's a couple of... Bryan Johnson, uh, has, has-
- DEDerek
Elon's on semaglutide, so he's at least trying to get ripped. Not necessarily sauced to the gills, but he's trying to get, you know, leaner.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] He's trying to lose weight.
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. What do you think of, uh, what do you th- who's doing it right? Who's doing it wrong? What do you, what, what do you see in the, uh, tech, uh, tech bodies?
- DEDerek
I think it's, uh, good that guys are prioritizing muscle mass and quality of life and whatnot over just, you know, existing. So I think it's an overall good thing to have, um, I don't know, be pursuing kinda [laughs] the masculine type e- I don't know, path. But- I, I don't necessarily know who's doing it wrong or right because they're not very outspoken about their protocols and-
- SPShaan Puri
Well, well what about-
- DEDerek
... whatnot
- SPShaan Puri
... Bryan Johnson? 'Cause he's meticulous about, like, you know, publishing what he's doing. What, what, what's your take on it, on what he's doing?
- DEDerek
That guy, it's tough because I do see the value in what he's doing, but I think a lot of it is totally contradictory. Like for example, the guy will calorie deprive the hell out of himself to the point of having hormone suppression, but then he... supplement with testosterone. It's like, dude, make up your mind.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- DEDerek
Which, which one is gonna be conducive to longevity versus not? 'Cause you're kinda just correcting what you screwed yourself up for to begin with. So why, why is your body trying to fight back against you just to, you know, manually administer something to correct your deficiency self-induced from literal nutrient deprivation? Like, the- there's clearly some sort of a, I don't know, contradictory, uh, actions in his protocol in my opinion. But overall, I think it's interesting for sure, seeing what he thinks is impactful versus not. But as he starts to roll out some of the, the products and services related to his stuff, you start to wonder, you know, how much of it is just, you know, noble intentions versus, you know, the entrepreneurial, you know, aspect of it, which is fine, but it's like do not... If it goes down that road where he goes heavy into selling, I really hope he is very candid about his, uh, desire to monetize and not make it seem like this noble, you know, thing entirely-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- DEDerek
... 'cause it's certainly not... You know, your private label olive oil, like other people coulda got it. You coulda just recommended a good company. You didn't have to go do it yourself necessarily. You know, you used some other companies up until a certain point. Why not just talk about them and give them the business? There's, there's some sort of monetary incentive there, which is fine. Um, I think a lot of the stuff he does is way overkill, and I think it's kinda hard to track anything with any relative certainty when there's a billion different variables. And I also think he puts way too much credence into certain trackers, like the, the age clocks. Those are complete bullshit essentially, and I don't think, uh, it's of great utility to be tracking those meticulously as if that's reflective of exactly what's going on.
- SPShaan Puri
And what, why are the age clocks bullshit?
- DEDerek
That I would need to dig into more, but a lot of it is based on your current, what is going on in your body in this current snapshot of time, and then trying to reflect, okay, your, uh, velocity of aging equals this because you had a transient, like, better blood sugar or fill-in-the-blank biomarker. Like, you could just as easily screw up your blood work and make it look like you're way older than you are in a matter of days. So it's like obviously your chronological biological age didn't shift that much in a matter of days, but just based on your current health status in your blood, in your body right now, you can make it look like you're plus or minus 20 years. So to actually take that and make it assert that, oh, this is, uh, it equals I'm this young now, it's like, no, your, maybe your current snapshot in time reflects something that looks like that, but it is not indicative that that is your overall health status. So I would, I would have to do, I probably should do a video on it at some point, but it's, uh... Most credible people that I trust think it's bullshit personally.
- SPSam Parr
I test all of 'em, so I've done, uh, Inside, I think Inside Tracker or Insight Tracker, and then, uh, True Diagnostics, and then... Like, I've done all of them. They're f- they're, they're... It's messed up because I know in my head that this is theory and that it's a, it's mo- m- like I know it's a gimmick, but it's so fun, you know what I mean? It, it, it-
- SPShaan Puri
Do they come out the same, Sam, when you try it across multiple services?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. Tho- those two came out the same, which was basically like, "Oh, my blood work is great," and, um, I think... They give you actually a number, so they're like, "You're 34 biologically, you're 23 chronolog-..." Or what is it? "Chronologically you're 34, biologically you're, you're 23," so it said I was great. And then they have this other score where they look at, is it the methane?
- SPShaan Puri
Wait, wait, wait. Hang on, hang on. You're 23 biologically?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, like according to this shit, it's, uh... which is, which is like a false sense of-
- SPShaan Puri
I know Derek just said it's bullshit, but I'm not gonna lie, kinda admire you for that. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
But that's the, but, but I see-
- SPShaan Puri
You just went up in my books.
- SPSam Parr
But that's my thing, is I see that and I'm like, "Oh, sick, I'm doing everything great," but I'm like, "I'm pretty sore though. Like, I don't know, like, you know, like, I don't know if I'm doing everything perfectly." And they, what, what's it called? What, what do they look at? Is it the m- the methane or, uh-
- DEDerek
Methylation
- SPSam Parr
... methylation. They look at that, and they're like, "Oh, you're kicking ass. Your rate of aging is super low." So I'm like, "Sick." Like, "I'm, I'm not gonna change anything." But, uh, but that's not exactly the reality 'cause I don't always feel great. You know what I'm saying? I also go- went on a kick. I've tested everything, so I've tested the semi- uh, semaglutide, I've tested TRT. I don't do any of that now. And then I've used anastrozole, which is, like, in my opinion, the worst thing ever. I fucking hate that. It made me feel miserable.
- SPShaan Puri
Oh.
- SPSam Parr
I've tried Clomid. Now I don't do anything. But I've gone through, I've tried it all because I, I like experimenting with all this stuff, and then I like doing the blood work.
- 1:00:25 – 1:06:15
Taking TRT and other supplements
- SPSam Parr
obsessed with different gadgets, you know what I'm saying?
- DEDerek
Why'd you come off of, uh, TRT?
- SPSam Parr
Um, because I would... So I got, like, strong, so I, like, uh, I wanted to do it because I was really low for years, like 130, and I was like, "All right, let's get this right and figure out what's going on." And so I did it, and I got low body fat, I got strong. I was hitting, like, record squat and bench numbers, and then I was like, "All right, well, let's try without it. Let's just see what happens if I don't take it." And I still felt great, and so I was like, "Well, you know, if I don't have to take it..." And my testosterone level actually went down, but I still felt wonderful and I was still lifting wonderfully, and my body felt great, so I was like, "Let's just try not doing it for a while."
- DEDerek
How long ago did you come off?
- SPSam Parr
Uh, last summer. A year. A year.
- DEDerek
Oh, okay. Oh. And what's your test now?
- SPSam Parr
Dude, it dropped. It was 800, and then it went to, uh, th- 400, 420.
- DEDerek
You said it was like 130 or something before you started- TRT though, right?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, man. Yeah, and I was 26% body fat, and I felt miserable. I was also running my company, and I was stressed, and I didn't get... And, and, um, for a year, I tried eating healthy and lifting, and I just didn't get it right. And then I, uh, sold my company, so I got financial security.
- DEDerek
Wow.
- SPSam Parr
I was pretty, pretty ripped. I was pretty strong. My... I got married, and my relationship was awesome, and I just felt happy. And I ate well. I ate all natural foods, and I just felt dialed in, and then I just went off of it, and my testosterone dropped. But I didn't feel horrible.
- DEDerek
Hmm. Interesting. Well, yeah, if you don't need it, yeah, probably better to wait if you don't, uh, wanna be-
- SPSam Parr
How old are you?
- DEDerek
30. Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Are you, are you on it right now?
- DEDerek
Um, yeah. But it's, for me, more so because when I was younger, I did a lot of hardcore bodybuilding stuff and shut down my system. And now with what I know now, I could probably restore natural function similar to what you did, but it would be a lot more aggressive of a recovery phase and more arduous. And putting myself through that right now isn't necessarily top of mind. So it's kinda just been a stay on it right now and optimize everything around it. But yeah, that's kinda how I ended up on it.
- SPSam Parr
There's, there's a few of the things that I really like, though. What's it called? Uh, is it BP 157?
- DEDerek
BPC.
- SPSam Parr
Like some of the- BPC. Like some of these peptides that, like, for example, if I strain my Achilles, and as I get older, I'm, like, not ... My, my injuries aren't healing.
- DEDerek
Mm.
- SPSam Parr
Um, which is like the most depressing thing about age, is that you just, like, heal slower or, like, and you get hurt easier.
- DEDerek
Bro, you're 23. What do you mean?
- SPSam Parr
Well, that's why those tests are ... That's what I'm saying, tho- those tests are bullshit.
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
They, like, say that you're young. I'm like, "I don't know, man. My shoulder fricking hurts, and it's been hurting for a month."
- DEDerek
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Uh, and uh, like, I've been really interested in some of those recovery drugs or peptides or whatever you want to call them.
- DEDerek
Mm.
- SPSam Parr
Um, w- what do you think about those?
- DEDerek
I think they can be useful for sure, as long as they're context specific and not overused, 'cause a lot of them are pro... For example, BPC is increases something called VEGF expression, and it's pro-angiogenic, meaning it will literally create ... It, it can induce blood flow that essentially was not present. So you could also have a pro-carcinogenic type proliferative effect with cancer cell development if you have existing cancer cells that could be, you know, exacerbated. So I think some athletes use it preventatively a bit too much. But in the context where you actually have an injury, there's low blood flow to it, you can actually have a use case for it. I think it's super, uh, high utility, very valuable product.
- 1:06:15 – 1:10:23
Where Derek buys his food
- DEDerek
need it for all we know.
- SPSam Parr
You did, you did this good thing. I, I mentioned your Europe video, and the interesting thing to me was actually that you said that you weren't training that hard-
- DEDerek
Wow
- SPSam Parr
... and you, I think you, like, indulged in bread and food.
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Like, you, you, you, you lived like a tourist. You know, you ate a lot.
- DEDerek
Right.
- SPSam Parr
But you're like, "I didn't ... I felt great because, A, I was walking a ton." And I don't remember if you said this or if I read this from somewhere else, uh, uh, what another person's experience, but you're like, the groceries and food just seemed higher quality, whether that's, like, involves, like, regulation around the FDA and, like, certain chemicals are or aren't allowed. Um, are you buying most of your ... You said you spend a lot on groceries, and you get high, high quality stuff. Are you buying most of your foods from popular grocery stores, or do you go to ... Do you buy online from niche providers, or are you going ... What, what are you doing for that?
- DEDerek
I go to a butcher for bison, liver, and things of that nature. Mostly my meats, but a lot of the other stuff is local grocery. In Canada, there's not a lot of flexibility, unfortunately, on quality of, uh, or just availability of some of the foods that you might otherwise buy at higher end places in the States. So as much as I'd love to have If I could, the highest level of everything. It's, uh, sourcing is a huge issue in Canada, as, as absurd as that sounds, like sourcing for, like basic foods. So yeah, it's, uh... When I can, I get, you know, the best available, but like for example, bison I think is the leanest, most nutrient-dense red meat essentially that you could get, and I will buy a ton of that even though it's, you know, three times more expensive than extra lean ground beef at the grocery store. So that's one example.
- SPSam Parr
We talked about this company, I don't remember, Shaan, if Hub- you said Huberman helped, uh, get it going or was a, was a affiliate or something to it?
- DEDerek
Madowi Nui or whatever?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, man.
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
That thing was cool.
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Like I, I, I'm, I, I ordered a bunch of stuff, like the... But the... I, I have no idea if I'm getting sold on the marketing or not, but like the story behind it, like they got me bought in. Like they got me so bought into it.
- DEDerek
No, I was at, uh, Peter Attia's place a couple of weeks ago and I had the venison sticks or whatever that they sell, and pretty damn good. Um, and yeah, I trust him and his recommendations, so I would imagine it's on the up and up and everything's probably pretty top tier.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, man, I... That story like totally got me bought in. I thought it was a cool business. Um, like, uh... And I've been watching some of your videos and it's made me nervous about just like my food and like the quality of food. And like Whole Foods for the longest time was like the gold standard, and now I'm like, "Nah, man, that, that still might even be shit." Like I... It's, it's to the point where I wanna start raising my own animals, you know what I mean? Or-
- DEDerek
Oh, yeah. It's tough, 'cause it's... A lot of people will swear off supplements and say buy Whole Foods, but then other people will say the Whole Foods or the soil is depleted of nutrients, so then you should supplement. But then the so- you know, there's, uh... Trying to know what you're doing can be quite arduous and, uh, um, sketchy. Even when you're trying to optimize, even when you have the financial means, it's trying to even figure out what to spend your money on can be, uh, overwhelming at times, for sure.
- SPSam Parr
Well, we appreciate you coming on, man. I've been a big fan of yours for years. I know Shaan has, too. Um, you're... I think what's gonna happen is like in the next four or five years, there's gonna be, uh, w- you might have an exit, or there's gonna be some type of article that review, that reveals how big your empire is, and I think that, um, I, I think a lot of people are gonna be surprised at some of the outcomes that you have. You know, the fact that you... I, I believe that you can build multiple billion-plus or nine-figure companies off the back of this audience, and I think it's gonna be really cool when that story finally, finally comes out.
- DEDerek
Oh, we'll see where it goes. I appreciate you guys having me on and, uh, being so patient as I get back into content here, 'cause I know you guys have been [laughs] trying to... Kieran has been trying to get me on for a while, so I'm glad we were able to make it happen.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, shout out to him. Thanks, Kieran, we appreciate that.
- DEDerek
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Right on. All right, that's it. That's the pod. [outro music]
Episode duration: 1:10:23
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Transcript of episode Zkad55pc_4w
