By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.
My First MillionMoiz Ali On Selling His Natural Deodorant To P&G For $100M, Investing In Manscaped, & Holding Cash
Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.
Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.
uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.
See howCHAPTERS
Jump to publisher timestampsChapter summaries
Building Native quietly: no PR, fear of failure, and avoiding copycats
Shaan and Moiz open with Native’s origin story and Moiz’s deliberate choice to keep the business out of the spotlight until after the sale. Moiz explains the two drivers: fear of public embarrassment if it failed and a strategy to avoid inviting competitors into an underexposed category.
- •Shaan recounts how he first heard about Native through Moiz’s brother and was surprised by the scale despite minimal fundraising.
- •Moiz says Native did no PR until after the business was sold.
- •Moiz describes fear of embarrassment as a key reason to stay quiet if the business failed.
- •Moiz says staying quiet also reduced the chance of competitors copying them early.
- •Moiz notes a wave of natural deodorant competitors appeared after exits in late 2017.
“Ali boarding”: using curiosity and open-ended questions to extract real business truth
Shaan describes the Ali brothers’ reputation for relentless questioning, and Moiz reflects on why it works. They break down a practical technique: asking broad questions like “How do you think about…?” to get deeper insight than asking for a single metric.
- •Shaan jokes that the Ali brothers’ information flow is usually one-way—mostly questions, little self-disclosure.
- •Moiz agrees the approach is driven by genuine curiosity about what makes businesses work.
- •Moiz shares an example of questioning hotel owners until he understood their unit economics, while they asked nothing in return.
- •Shaan analyzes how Solomon keeps people talking by signaling approval and never shaming “bad” answers.
- •Moiz highlights the power of “How do you think about that?” as a prompt that elicits strategy, not just numbers.
Finding competitive advantage without overthinking: the answer can evolve after launch
Shaan and Moiz discuss the importance—and danger—of obsessing over a competitive moat too early. Moiz explains that Native’s differentiator changed over time, moving from “aluminum-free online” to fragrance strategy and broader brand expansion.
- •Shaan shares how one advisor-style question—what’s your X-with-Y-difference—can reshape a founder’s thinking.
- •Moiz says if someone asked Native’s advantage at launch, he wouldn’t have had a clear answer yet.
- •Moiz describes how Native’s advantage evolved: scents, frequent new fragrance launches, bundling, and expanding categories.
- •Moiz argues founders shouldn’t let the “advantage” question prevent them from launching and learning.
- •Shaan warns against “magical” or overly complex advantage stories (like relying on big partnerships).
Simple business plans that work: copy proven demand, tweak packaging or distribution
They swap examples of “stupid simple” businesses built on existing demand, not breakthrough inventions. Shaan proposes an ethnic snack brand with modern packaging, and Moiz adds examples of companies that started with surprisingly straightforward models.
- •Shaan pitches a plan: take an established snack product category and win with better packaging and broader appeal.
- •Moiz agrees packaging and accessibility can expand beyond niche/ethnic distribution.
- •Shaan emphasizes you can answer most questions with “same as everyone else” if you have one clear wedge.
- •Moiz cites NatureBox’s early approach: buy snacks at retail, repackage, and ship.
- •Moiz mentions Instacart’s early simplicity: email a grocery list and they shop for you.
Why Manscaped worked: category framing + unforgettable branding
Moiz explains what he saw in Manscaped and why the company’s approach stood out. The “product for your balls” framing and high-attention branding created differentiation that many DTC brands fail to achieve.
- •Moiz says the core pitch was simple: a trimmer positioned specifically for groin grooming, even if other trimmers could work.
- •Moiz highlights the importance of the name and trademark as a brand asset.
- •He describes attention-grabbing marketing stunts like a billboard barge and clever outdoor creative.
- •Moiz contrasts Manscaped’s bold messaging with more generic DTC billboards (like “please buy this”).
- •Moiz notes the hardest part is that truly creative marketing talent may not scale if key people leave.
Common DTC mistakes: over-hiring, expensive offices, and not knowing CAC
Moiz delivers a blunt operational critique of what he sees founders doing wrong. He argues lean teams, frugality, and daily familiarity with performance metrics are foundational to DTC success.
- •Moiz calls out over-hiring, comparing Native’s small team at high revenue to bloated teams at low revenue.
- •He says if you have too many people at a small brand, you’re burning money unnecessarily.
- •Moiz criticizes spending on fancy offices and branding the workspace instead of the business.
- •He tells a story of Native’s extremely minimal office setup, which surprised P&G.
- •Moiz says not knowing CAC (especially at modest scale) is a major red flag and a form of negligence.
“Unscalable” operator habits: customer emails, packing boxes, and factory-level obsession
Shaan asks for scrappy operator stories, and Moiz describes hands-on tactics he used at Native. The theme is deep intimacy with customer feedback, operations, shipping economics, and manufacturing—often by doing the work himself.
- •Moiz says he emailed every customer asking for feedback and reviews, and personally processed responses early on.
- •He explains why he timed feedback requests after the return window to reduce return requests while still learning.
- •Moiz describes gathering customers in person to ask what they believed made the product work (including perceptions about probiotics).
- •He shares that he packed boxes himself up to significant revenue and obsessed over box weight thresholds for shipping costs.
- •Moiz describes frequent manufacturer visits and detailed knowledge of the production process, including hand-pouring at high volume.
DTC platform critique: Shopify’s “arm the rebels” promise vs missing core tools
Shaan asks Moiz for his views on major tech platforms, starting with Shopify. Moiz, as a shareholder and operator, argues Shopify hasn’t built enough built-in solutions compared to key apps merchants pay for.
- •Moiz says he’s lost millions in Shopify stock and frames his critique from that context.
- •He describes his “muskets vs nuclear weapons” analogy for Shopify’s product strategy.
- •Moiz says Shopify leadership responded to his public feedback and he had follow-on conversations.
- •He points out many merchants pay more for apps (like email, subscriptions, analytics) than they pay Shopify.
- •Moiz questions why Shopify doesn’t build more first-party tools instead of relying on costly, disliked third-party solutions.
How Moiz allocates wealth: large cash position, bonds, startups, and frustration with wealth managers
Shaan shifts to Moiz’s investing approach and asks for a pie-chart view of his holdings. Moiz outlines approximate allocations and explains why he’s held so much cash-like exposure, plus why private wealth management has disappointed him.
- •Moiz lists rough allocations across private equity, cash/short-term bonds, real estate (direct and LP), startups, and public stocks.
- •He explains his “cash” is largely short-term bonds with limited interest-rate risk, and he’s gradually moving into more rate-sensitive positions.
- •Moiz says the large cash position is partly reactive and partly tied to waiting for more attractive interest rates.
- •He critiques private wealth managers as offering little differentiation and mostly funneling clients into the same well-known funds.
- •Moiz compares picking wealth managers to buying the same airline seat through different booking sites—same product, different wrapper.
Crypto stance: indirect exposure, uncertainty about value, and staying on the sidelines
Shaan asks whether Moiz invests in crypto and why or why not. Moiz describes minimal direct exposure, citing uncertainty about the underlying value and conflicting advice from people he respects.
- •Moiz says he has very little direct crypto exposure but is in funds that profited heavily from it.
- •He notes those funds invested outside their stated mandate but produced returns that made LPs accept it.
- •Moiz says he still doesn’t understand the value well enough to allocate heavily.
- •He contrasts pressure from peers urging crypto investment with strong skepticism from other respected voices.
- •Moiz says he’s open to being convinced but remains hesitant for now.
Real estate on “hard mode”: auctions, long-term holding, and doubling down in a crash
Moiz explains how he got into real estate after leaving Native, accelerated by the early COVID period. He describes buying dozens of units, often through auctions with limited diligence, and outlines why he views real estate as durable, long-term cash-flow diversification.
- •Moiz says after leaving Native in early 2020, he began buying real estate and acquired roughly 50 units over that period.
- •He describes buying mostly single-family homes plus small multifamily, including some renovation properties.
- •Moiz says he avoided leverage (calling it “stupid” in hindsight given low rates) due to laziness and ample capital.
- •He reports that actual rents and returns exceeded his underwriting assumptions in several cases.
- •Moiz says he intends never to sell his properties and would aggressively buy more if a crash happens, viewing it as the asset class he won’t panic in.
Money mindset and admiration: frugality, “being in the game,” and learning what to value
The conversation turns personal: Moiz says he doesn’t know how to spend money despite his wealth, and Shaan explains how mindset can stay scarce regardless of bank balance. They explore how consciously choosing who you admire can shape how you live, not just how you work.
- •Moiz describes living simply—Airbnbs, no car, no house—and still feeling hesitant even about small purchases.
- •Shaan argues money mindset and financial reality can remain disconnected, citing his dad’s persistent scarcity behaviors.
- •Shaan explains he changed by noticing the cost of “cheapness” in time, stress, and joy, not just dollars.
- •Shaan describes admiring people for happiness and generosity rather than only business dominance, and trying to model those behaviors.
- •Moiz says he’s mostly admired high-competitiveness icons (like Tom Brady) and hadn’t considered that admiration can be intentionally chosen.
