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The #1 Sign That Someone Will Become A Billionaire By 40 (#364)

Episode 364: Shaan Puri and Sam Parr talk about lessons from lunch with billionaire, Dharmesh Shah, the power of fierce nerds, and the latest D2C business idea from Shaan...

Shaan PurihostSam Parrhost

Sep 20, 20221h 7mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

80 min read · 15,629 words

0:00 – 6:23
Intro
1. SPShaan Puri
  And he goes, "Seven of the eight richest people in the world right now on Air or in America right now are fierce nerds." Right? So you have, like, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Elon Musk. Like, you have these, like, these type... Jeff Bezos, these types of folks. But also he says, "Intelligence is pa- you know, part of the thing. But fierce nerds are not, they're not winners because they're the smartest of the nerds. In fact, they're usually only moderately intelligent, uh, compared to other nerds, but they are way more competitive and impatient than, than the average nerd." And this is the difference between basically, like, who becomes a professor and who becomes, like, a founder or a, a great investor or something like this. [upbeat music] All right, in this episode, we're talking about Sam's fight with a bunch of nannies.
2. SPSam Parr
  Yeah, it's... That's a crazy story. That's in the beginning. Uh, Shaan just had lunch with a billionaire. I had dinner with him that, that... actually a few days before. Super fascinating guy. This, this... We, we're actually gonna share a couple stories that very few people get to see. I think that's the most interesting part.
3. SPShaan Puri
  We also do, uh, a couple ideas. We got a, a Apple-esque ba- a, a Apple-esque business for bathrooms and a business around the idea of an IQ test. So that's a little side hustle we got for you. So it's got everything. We got frameworks, we got stories, we got ideas, we got it all.
4. SPSam Parr
  Have you ever seen this meme of, like, a Black guy with a red shirt, like, clasping hands with a white guy with a blue shirt, and it's like, "We're in this together" type of vibe?
5. SPShaan Puri
  It's like the firm, the firm handshake meme?
6. SPSam Parr
  Yeah, it's like us versus the world. Race, class, it doesn't matter.
7. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
8. SPSam Parr
  I just had a real-life incident ha- like that happen to me. So I was out... I'm, I'm in Brooklyn right now. I was out in this park in front of my house, like, doing push-ups and sit-ups and just, like, walking my dog, just hanging out. And I see this guy, or I see, like, these four nannies, like, all skedaddle out of, like, an area where they're sitting, and then I see this, like, dude who's clearly harassing them, like, coming after them. And m- I run over there, and I'm like, "Hey, what's going on?" And they're like, "This guy just, like, spit on us. He's acting crazy. He's bothering us." And so I give them my dog's leash, uh, 'cause I had my dog with me, and I go, "Hey, hold my dog for me." And we... I walked over, and then I start talking to the guy to get him to go away. And then, like, it's like, "Oh, this is clearly gonna become a fistfight." And then, like, five other guys who are all around the street, these guys just, like, basically sit on the block all day. I don't know what they do. But, like, one dude was, like, a Dominican dude. Another guy was a Black guy. We are all... And I'm sitting there shirtless in bright green running shorts with a fanny pack on with AirPods still in my ear.
9. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
10. SPSam Parr
  And we just, like, corral these women, these four. It was, like, a Jamaican nanny. It was, like, a, an Asian nanny, an older white woman. It looks like... And it like, we are all just, like, corralling these guy, or the, the, these, these nannies in this, like, circle, and we're just standing there like a elephant guarding its herd. You know what I'm saying?
11. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
12. SPSam Parr
  And it was, like, the [laughs] it was like the real-life meme of us coming together. And at the end, the crazy person, he walked away, and we just look at each other like, "Job well done." You know, just like, who cares about our backgrounds? Who cares what we look like? We just-
13. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
14. SPSam Parr
  We're, we're champions of the nannies, and I just got hyped over that.
15. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] First of all, the fanny and the nannies.
16. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
17. SPShaan Puri
  That's an amazing combo. Don't, don't mess with that.
18. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
19. SPShaan Puri
  Secondly, what was that analogy? Like an elephant guarding its herd? [laughs]
20. SPSam Parr
  [laughs] I don't know. I watch National Geographic. And when the lions come, like, the whole community of elephants, like, get in a circle, and they put, like, the babies in the middle, and they're just saying like, you know, "Bring it on, dog." They're just ready to fight, and that's how it felt like. We were just these-
21. SPShaan Puri
  You're like... You know how they call people, like, Renaissance man? Like, you're not a Renaissance man, but you do have this strange set of influences that you watch and you consume-
22. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
23. SPShaan Puri
  ... and you play with. So, like, we need, like, another word. You're, like, a Re- Redneckissance man-
24. SPSam Parr
  Exactly. [laughs]
25. SPShaan Puri
  ... or something like that. Like-
26. SPSam Parr
  Yeah
27. SPShaan Puri
  ... I don't know what these things are. You're like, "You know, like, when you're, when you're swashbuckling over the thing." It's like, "No, I don't know that. [laughs] Like, why do you know that?"
28. SPSam Parr
  Like, you know, I, like, I'm watching Cops, but on commercial break, I'm reading Ernest Hemingway.
29. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
30. SPSam Parr
  You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't stop me.
6:23 – 15:37
Lessons from lunch with Dharmesh
1. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah, I think we both basically hung out with Dharmesh. So Dharmesh is the founder of HubSpot. HubSpot is the company that bought your company. He's a billionaire. HubSpot is a... He's been there for, I don't even know how many years, 15 plus years now.
2. SPSam Parr
  The, the beginning, yeah.
3. SPShaan Puri
  So kind of epic founder, built a, I don't know, $20 billion company or something like that. And, um, awesome guy, really fun guy to hang out with. He listens to the pod, so he's kinda like like-minded and kinda knows our personalities. But we had never hung out in person, neither had you. So I think you hung out with him at the conference, and then, like, a few days later, I grabbed lunch with him 'cause he flew to San Francisco. Um, give me your kind of initial take. Give me what, what you liked. Give me maybe something that you didn't expect, and I'll do the same.
4. SPSam Parr
  So he's lovely. Like, he's a sweetheart of a person. He's, um, easy to talk to. Like, he's incredibly... Like, it's, he seems emotionally, like, well-balanced and, like, knows what he, what he is and what he isn't. So a lovely hang. And then the second thing, and I mean this with love and I mean this as a compliment, he is so odd. He has done so many unique things in his life that he, like, you, you wouldn't even know. Like, he's odd in that he's, like, quirky, but he's also eclect- uh, incredibly eclectic, so he's done so many interesting things. And when he tells you the stories about his interesting things, you realize, "Oh, you're, like, a lovely guy to be around, and you have my back, and we're friends. But you are a, you're kind of a shark. You will, you'll, you win."
5. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
6. SPSam Parr
  "You win at everything you do, and you spot opportunities." For example, he just casually throws out these things, and he's done this to me, like, eight times. So I found out that when he was in his 20s, he was like, "You know, I almost didn't even..." And this reminds me of you. He goes, "I almost didn't even wanna start tech companies because I've, I, um, was gonna become a professional poker player." I was like, "What?" He goes, "Yeah. Basically, like, me and my brother, we, uh, we were up, like, you know, mid to high six figures over our career, our short career of blackjack because we learned how to play blackjack, and we learned how to do well. And also, we speak a language that isn't very common." I actually don't know what language it, it is, but a language where in India they don't even speak it that, that much. And he's like, "We could talk at, like, the tables and, like, discuss strategy and no one would even know, and, uh, we just would win. We-
7. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
8. SPSam Parr
  "I, I, I'm up, and I know how to do it the, the right way, and I almost became a professional poker player." And so he, like, has, like, all of these little weird things that he'll tell stories about, and I'm like, "Oh, you're, you're a killer, and you're also so unique."
9. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. Have you ever read that Paul Graham blog post called Fierce Nerds?
10. SPSam Parr
  No, what is it? I mean, uh, y- years ago, 10 years ago. It's old, right?
11. SPShaan Puri
  Um, no, not that old. Maybe, like, uh, let's see. When did he publish this? He published this in 2021, so one year ago.
12. SPSam Parr
  Oh, no. Then no, I haven't.
13. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] So it's an amazing post. I'm gonna read you a couple pieces of it, but it is... It's one of those, like, Paul Graham, I think, is ki- Somebody said this earlier. They go, uh, uh, what's that guy? Andrew Tate. They... Some, some tweet that was really funny was, "Paul Graham was my Andrew Tate-"
14. SPSam Parr
  Yeah
15. SPShaan Puri
  ... "like, growing up," which is just like-
16. SPSam Parr
  Same.
17. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] It's so funny. So it's such a funny, such a deep cut joke, but if you get it, you're like, it, it just hits the spot. So, um, all right, so he wrote this post, and he goes, "Most people think of nerds as quiet, you know, sort of like diffident people," right? Just sort of like, uh, you know, passive. And in or- and in most social situations, they are. They're, they're quiet, and, you know, they're not the star quarterback in the middle of the gym, right? They're, um, they're kind of a fish out of water in a bunch of different things. He goes, um, "But this is an illusion because when on- that only happens when non-nerds observe them 'cause they're observing them in non-nerdy situations. So you see a nerd at prom, you just see them as a quiet, sort of passive nerd. There's no alpha in them." And he goes, "But in fact, some nerds are quite fierce. Fierce nerds are a small but interesting group. They are extremely competitive, more competitive, I would say, than competitive non-nerds because the competition is more personal to them, partly because they're not emotionally mature [laughs] and they, they distance themselves from it, uh, but also because there's less randomness in the types of competition that they engage in. Therefore, they're justified in making it more personal." So this is, like, fierce nerds who get really into chess or a game that is less luck based, more skill based. Uh, this often happens with gaming or programming competitions or math competitions or spelling bees-
18. SPSam Parr
  Dude, Dharmesh-
19. SPShaan Puri
  ... where it's way less about luck and way more about skill.
20. SPSam Parr
  Dharmesh told me a story. He was like, "When I was in grade school or high school, I, uh, like, I got in trouble because I just, like, didn't go to school or, like, something like that." And I was like, "Why?" He goes, "Well, I had never seen a ping pong table, and they had one of those in the dorm. And I, right when I saw it, I decided I'm gonna be the best at this. And so I dedicated my high school years-"
21. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
22. SPSam Parr
  "... to being the best ping pong player." Uh, but sorry, go ahead.
23. SPShaan Puri
  Really? [laughs]
24. SPSam Parr
  Yes.
25. SPShaan Puri
  That's amazing. Uh, I love how you get these gems out of people. Like, what question do you ask that gets that answer?
26. SPSam Parr
  I, uh, like, I'll just say, like, like, "Wow, you're, like, really unique. Like, how are you so, why are you so different?"
27. SPShaan Puri
  No, no. How did you really say it? "Wow, you're so freaking weird, man."
28. SPSam Parr
  I'm like, I, yeah, I would say, "Dude, you're a-
29. SPShaan Puri
  Did you do weird stuff your whole life? [laughs]
30. SPSam Parr
  I was like, "You're a weirdo." I'm like, "I, I'm kind of a weir-"
15:37 – 26:13
Finding the medium where you're most comfortable
1. SPShaan Puri
  going, going towards that. The second part was super nice guy, and our lunch was totally fine. But there is a certain, uh, it's... He's this type of person, uh, actually, there's a bunch of people like this, I might be like this, where you're almost better to talk to online. It's like you've spent more time talking to people online that your online social skill is better than your in-person social skill. I felt this myself, 'cause right, I left the house for the first time in many [laughs] you know, many days to go do a social hangout. Like, you know, he even texted. He was like, "You know, totally understand, by the way, if you don't wanna come. I'm like you. I don't like to leave the house, and, you know, I'm protective of my time." And I was like, "No, no, no. I wanna do this. I'll, I'll drive an hour. Let's do this." Um, I felt rusty, and I could feel almost that he was a little rusty or, like, put differently, not rusty necessarily, but the, his main comfort zone, right, his pocket, his cockpit as a pilot, is sitting at his desk in front of a computer. And I know a bunch of people like this. I have a, this guy we used to work with, Jake. If you met him, he's as quiet as a mouse. In Slack, he's like the class clown. And I was like, "What? Who is this guy? That's you? Dude, you're like the most soft-spoken..." Like, you know that foot pedal on a piano that makes all the keys, like, muted? He's like that for real life.
2. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
3. SPShaan Puri
  Like, somebody needs to, like, take the foot off the foot pedal for him. And but then you get him in Slack, and the guy's like, you know, the number one troll willing to cut the edgy jokes. And I was like, "I can't believe this is the same guy." And it's like he was 21 years old, and he basically grew up in Malaysia. His only, like, English social interactions were online, in, like, in chat rooms, games, Discord, that sort of thing. And so, you know, that's just his persona. And I've met so many people that are like this, that I've now come to realize it's not something weird about them. It's actually a completely normal thing, and it's better to just figure out what's your, where are you the most you? Is it through text messaging? Is it on phone calls? Is it through written emails? Is it in person? Is it, like, longform in person? What is the version of you that's the most you? Uh-
4. SPSam Parr
  Well-
5. SPShaan Puri
  Like, what would you say it is for you?
6. SPSam Parr
  Um, r- writing, like longform writing. Um, I think that's what I prefer. Like, these podcasts, like, I usually have to lay down for like 30 minutes because I'm like, I'm like dead after [laughs] after them.
7. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
8. SPSam Parr
  So no. M- I mean, I'm okay at this, but, like, writing I prefer. But listen to this. So I think Dharmesh would actually agree with you.
9. SPShaan Puri
  Do you, like, have to elevate your legs to, to get the blood back to your brain?
10. SPSam Parr
  Yeah. [laughs]
11. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
12. SPSam Parr
  I'm just like, "I'm so tired. I passed out. What happened?" [laughs]
13. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
14. SPSam Parr
  Uh, uh, Dharmesh, um, would probably agree with you, I, I would imagine. And s- but l- so listen to this. So they, they asked you and me to, like, show up. So basically, I was supposed to speak at this event, and they were like, "Hey, uh, one of the main people had to cancel 'cause something happened. Can you show up, like, in 12 hours the next morning and come and speak in front of 10,000 people?" And I was like, "I mean, I guess I could just, like, show up and riff in front of 10,000 people, but I, I don't prefer that. Does Dharmesh wanna, like, do a thing?" And they're like, "No, he hates public speaking." I'm like, "Just let me ask him. He'll do it." So he ended up do- doing it. But backstage, I asked him about that, and he was like, "Yeah, I don't, I hate public speaking. I'm not good at it." And I go, "Well, you just did a keynote earlier today. Why'd you do that?" And he goes, "I'll tell you why. Basically, for the six months or five months or whatever it was leading up to this event- I had this process where I read a bunch of comedy books, and I realized that the laugh per minute was the most important thing for a talk.
15. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
16. SPSam Parr
  And so what I did was I got ... First, I made a presentation, I got ... I ... And I created a Zoom call, and I got 10 HubSpot employees to do it, and I recorded the whole thing. Then I got 20 to come, and then 50 to come, and then 100 to come. And what I did was I adapted each time, and I built this Python [laughs] ... I built this Python script that-
17. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
18. SPSam Parr
  ... analyzed the audio of the call to figure out what my laugh per minute was. And then each time I adapted it to get more laughs per minute. So for example, and he knew the exact numbers. He goes, "I had 96 slides on this presentation, and I had to click next 120 times, and I know on which laugh and on which word to hit next because I practiced it so much. Because I'm optimizing for lap-" My- He, he kept calling it the, the LPM.
19. SPShaan Puri
  Wow.
20. SPSam Parr
  Uh, and, uh, and he-
21. SPShaan Puri
  What the hell? This is amazing. [laughs]
22. SPSam Parr
  It's amazing, dude.
23. SPShaan Puri
  Yes, I live for these types of stories. [laughs]
24. SPSam Parr
  It's amazing. And he, like, he ... And I went back and watched his talk, and he goes ... In fact ... So here's, like, another, like, side tangent. Have ... If you've ever been to a big conference, have you noticed, whether it's TED Talk or even Steve Jobs, all the big conferences that have more than 1,000 people, they all use the same slide clicker. Have you ever seen that clicker? It only has two buttons, a red, which means-
25. SPShaan Puri
  Yep
26. SPSam Parr
  ... back, and a right ... And a, and a green, which means next. So here's the secret. That clicker, it doesn't actually change the slide. It goes to a light, like a, a light that says red or green, and there's someone on the other end of the slide hitting left or right. Did you know that?
27. SPShaan Puri
  No. [laughs] What? Why?
28. SPSam Parr
  Yeah. So that's like a ... I ... So it's so stupid. I ... Because they do it because, like, the pre- the presenters or the organizer will be like, "Well, in case you screw up, someone's here and, and will do a better job." But it's not automated. Like, it ... The ... This is how it's ... it works at all big conferences. So it, it's like this clicker or whatever. We have to do a talk on it, actually. They have a ... They've completely monopolized it, so every single big conference has this. And, and I told him that. He goes, "Dude, trust me. I know. I've gotten in fights with these people for eight years because I built a device and a program to make it so that clicker could actually work directly with the computer, because in order to optimize my LPM, I need the click to happen faster-
29. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
30. SPSam Parr
  ... than a human being can see the light and click next, because I've ... That's how I've set it up. And every once in a while, there'll be a slight delay, which decreases my LPM." And so [laughs] this is how this guy looks at everything, and he told me that-
26:13 – 34:53
Five random domains that Shaan owns
1. SPShaan Puri
  Can I, can I tell you five random domains that I own? Uh, actually, I'm gonna tell you six random domains that I own. I want you... I'm gonna say... Let's play a little game. I'm gonna say a domain, and you're gonna just pitch me a business off, off the domain, off the top of your head. All right?
2. SPSam Parr
  Okay.
3. SPShaan Puri
  All right, you froze. Oh, there you go. Um, okay, number one, excelmonkeys.com, a domain I own. Excelmonkeys.com, what does it do?
4. SPSam Parr
  All right, excelmonkeys.com, it's where you buy s- smart chimpanzees. Uh...
5. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
6. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
7. SPShaan Puri
  That's your best idea with excel monkeys? [laughs]
8. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
9. SPShaan Puri
  You buy smart monkeys? [laughs]
10. SPSam Parr
  [laughs] Yeah, 'cause they excel.
11. SPShaan Puri
  Monkeys so smart they could use Excel. [laughs]
12. SPSam Parr
  [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Excel monkeys, it would be, um... That would be the name of a tax service.
13. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah, it could be a tax service. It could also be, like, selling amazing Excel templates for stuff. It's like, "Oh, you need, like, a cash flow statement? Here's a great one. You need, like, a P&L? Here's a great Excel template for it."
14. SPSam Parr
  Wait, did you buy Excel Monkeys 'cause that's what I used to call people?
15. SPShaan Puri
  No. Did you do that?
16. SPSam Parr
  Oh, yeah. Whenever I meet these finance nerds, in reality, I was always jealous of them because they were making more money than me, like my friends, and I'd be like, "Dude, you're just an Excel monkey man. Like, they're just... All you do is play on Excel. You don't do anything. You don't create real value like me. Like, you know, I write a newsletter."
17. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] Dude, I, I have so many phrases like that. Like, um, bankers who are always making PowerPoints, I'm like, "Ah, freaking slide jockey over here."
18. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
19. SPShaan Puri
  And I don't even know what it wa- I don't even know why, but I'm like, I want it to be derogatory. Or like, uh, the best one of all of them is the finance department that, like, watches the budget. You have to, like, get your expenses. It's like, "Oh, yeah, I gotta go talk to the bean counters."
20. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
21. SPShaan Puri
  I, like, heard someone, some guy say this. He was, like, in his 60s, and I think it's a common phrase. But I was like, oh, that was like a racial slur as far as I was concerned. I was like, wow, calling someone a bean counter? That sounds [laughs] awful.
22. SPSam Parr
  I like that.
23. SPShaan Puri
  You are allowed to say that in the office? That's incredible. I'm gonna use that.
24. SPSam Parr
  When I was, uh, you know, younger and I was jealous of all these bankers, they'd be like, "Oh, you know, I work in banking." Like, "Oh, no shit. Which branch?" You know?
25. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
26. SPSam Parr
  Like, uh, "I go to the one in Columbia. Is that where you are?" [laughs]
27. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] You ever been robbed? Has ever come in with a ski mask? Have you guys ever-
28. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
29. SPShaan Puri
  ... gotten pranked on? [laughs]
30. SPSam Parr
  [laughs] Okay, Excel Monkeys, that's a, uh, uh, that's a... It's a website for tax experts. What's the next one?
34:53 – 42:41
Idea: D2C IQ Test Company
1. SPSam Parr
  Yeah
2. SPShaan Puri
  ... do you know your IQ?
3. SPSam Parr
  No, of course not.
4. SPShaan Puri
  Ben, do you know your IQ? Have you ever had an IQ test?
5. SPSam Parr
  Of course he does.
6. SPSpeaker
  I, I've done only unofficial IQ tests.
7. SPSam Parr
  What does that mean?
8. SPShaan Puri
  What is that like?
9. SPSam Parr
  Yeah.
10. SPSpeaker
  Well, so-
11. SPSam Parr
  Like a banner ad on a website?
12. SPSpeaker
  Yeah, so there's some online that are supposed to be better than others, but basically in order to get your actual IQ, it's supposed to be like proctored and they have someone administer it, but you can go take tests online. I took one of the better ones, um-
13. SPSam Parr
  And?
14. SPSpeaker
  ... but it's still not like a totally accurate IQ.
15. SPSam Parr
  Okay.
16. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah.
17. SPSam Parr
  And-
18. SPShaan Puri
  I ate at one of the better Arby's the other day. [laughs]
19. SPSpeaker
  [laughs]
20. SPSam Parr
  [laughs] So what did you get?
21. SPSpeaker
  It is kinda like that, yes.
22. SPSam Parr
  What, what did you get?
23. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah, what's your IQ?
24. SPSpeaker
  It said 132.
25. SPShaan Puri
  Pfft. Oh, that's genius level, right?
26. SPSpeaker
  No, no. But it's, it's, it's smart, but not genius.
27. SPShaan Puri
  So, um, I think you could create a D2C IQ brand. Uh, so-
28. SPSam Parr
  Same. Same
29. SPShaan Puri
  ... I think you could basically take the same playbook that everybody's using for D2C brands, right? Uh, we were just joking about banner ads, but yes, banner ads, uh, Facebook ads, Taboola ads, everywhere. I think you could optimize a funnel that basically buys clicks for, uh, less than a dollar, and then converts, you know, let's call it, uh, I don't know, whatever, 10% of people. Uh, you need to convert 10% of people to pay you the 25 bucks that it's gonna take or the, you know, maybe it's the, maybe it's, maybe it's 99 bucks or something like that. You have to figure out some version of the economics that's gonna make sense to make this, the math work on the CAC versus the, the value. But I feel like somebody could create a funnel that will get you in. Why do I think that this will work? It's not really economics driven. It's just work backwards from what's an ad that I think would work, and I think an ad that's like, "Only geniuses can solve this puzzle." Um, like I, I don't know if you've seen these ads on TikTok that are like, "People say this puzzle is impossible," or, "This number game is impossible. You can't draw a line through these four things without lifting your finger." And you're like, "I bet I can do that. That looks doable." And you like click it and then now y- it tells you to download some game. But instead of a game, I think it could be basically like an IQ game, and I think you could basically make a monthly subscription that's like- These are IQ games or IQ tests to get your score, um, for either you or maybe, maybe it's f- maybe we're going after the baby Einsteins. Maybe it's for your kids, 'cause I think people wanna know if their kid's a genius more than, uh, as an adult it's less, less important. And so I think somebody could build a D2C IQ test that, like... I don't know exactly how well it'll do, but would it surprise you if I told you, "Dude, I met this guy and he runs this, like, Facebook funnel that basically takes you on an IQ test and then you pay for your results, and, uh, and, like, half the people forget to cancel their subscription." Um, and the guy makes, you know, 50, 50,000 a month, or the guy makes 100,000 a month doing this. Would you be shocked-
30. SPSam Parr
  No
42:41 – 50:13
Idea: Apple for the bathroom
1. SPShaan Puri
  why are... I, I think somebody could make an Apple for the bathroom. And what would, what is the company that's Apple for the bathroom gonna do? So I don't know, have you ever tried to, like, hack your shower experience to make it more awesome?
2. SPSam Parr
  It's really hard. I, I-
3. SPShaan Puri
  Have you ever tried to do things-
4. SPSam Parr
  Yeah
5. SPShaan Puri
  ... or buy things?
6. SPSam Parr
  I bought, I was really interested in, like, different shower heads, and I remember researching them on Wirecutter, and I bought the fanciest one. And then I, or it, it wasn't even that fancy, but the best one, and I remember, like, it took forever to call a handyman to install it. It was a pain in the ass.
7. SPShaan Puri
  I was gonna say, where did you fall, fall into the trap? Installing it, right?
8. SPSam Parr
  Yeah.
9. SPShaan Puri
  It's always the install that's like, you know, who's gonna do that? God, God, that's a-
10. SPSam Parr
  Versus, like, a, a Nest. A Nest was, like, easy. I c- I did that
11. SPShaan Puri
  And same thing with toilets. It's like you- we've probably all heard that there's these Japanese toilets that are amazing that will like, you know, give you a butt massage or whatever. You know, they're, they're like incredible toilets, but who's gonna rip out their toilet and replace it with this fancy one? That's a, that's a big, big overhaul. And washing your hands, nobody even touches. The mirror, nobody touches. Like there's... So I think you could build a product that simply says, "I'm gonna give people relaxation and relief. I'm gonna give them, uh, ex- motivation and inspiration through products just for the bathroom." And you could just nerd out about how to make the bathroom experience amazing. Like I bought these little eucalyptus like pods that you put in the shower, and basically when hot water hits the, the pod, it like releases like this eucalyptus like kind of like, uh, aroma. Awesome, right? Like the, the thing itself is kinda janky. Like it's not the best product. Like it, uh, you know, in between it gets all soggy. It's not great. It's like it's only good the first time. But the concept is amazing. And it's like why isn't there just a better diffuser that's gonna add this like eucalyptus steam into my shower while I'm doing this? Why isn't there an add-on attachment that doesn't require me to replace my shower head but just makes the shower head better? Um, why isn't there something that's on my mirror that is motivational and inspirational that's like s- that looks nice? Why isn't there a product that's like washing your hands but is not washing your hands? It's like some heat, UV bullshit, I don't know, something that's gonna like make my hands feel clean and toasty. Um, why isn't there a Eight Sleep for the toilet that's a device that sits inside the toilet and measures your pee and your poo and tells you when you need to go see a doctor or, you know, the quality of your hydration or whatever else? I think that somebody should build a company. I want some- somebody who is like that Venn diagram between quantified self, they like, they wanna like optimize, they, you know, the Rob Dyrdek I am human optimization. They're that guy, but they're also a hardware nerd. And somebody who, who has that overlap, I just wish that they would create Apple for the bathroom. So it's, I think it's something I wish somebody made because I would buy hundreds of dollars worth of products from a brand that could actually do that well. What do you think of this idea?
12. SPSam Parr
  Dude, so, uh, I, I, I haven't researched, uh, a ton of this, but, um, there's two interesting players in this space right now. So interestingly, both of them have come from like tier one VC-backed businesses that they previously started in traditional like cool kid areas. So the first one I think, is it called Revolution Bathrooms?
13. SPShaan Puri
  Uh, Made Revolution.
14. SPSam Parr
  Uh, Made Revolution.
15. SPShaan Puri
  Re- Made Renovation.
16. SPSam Parr
  So it started by-
17. SPShaan Puri
  Renovation
18. SPSam Parr
  ... Made Renovation. I believe it's started by, I think it's Roger Dickey, I think his name is.
19. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah.
20. SPSam Parr
  His company was called Gigster. Successful tech guy who started like businesses I think that have sold for hundreds of millions of dollars, and he like up and quit like this one like company that he had, Gigster, that's was killing it. And he's like, "I'm gonna get into the bathroom business." And so-
21. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
22. SPSam Parr
  ... a little bit different than what you're talking about, but interesting. But another one that's actually really cool, have you heard of Block Renovation?
23. SPShaan Puri
  They do the same thing, right?
24. SPSam Parr
  Ish, yeah. I believe they do the same thing, but basically the coolest thing about this is if you go to the website, it looks slick and cool and everything, and it almost fits your Venn diagram once because the guy who started it, his name is Luke Sherwin. He's the former founder of Casper. Uh-
25. SPShaan Puri
  That's right
26. SPSam Parr
  ... so he like took Casper public and left, and then he started this thing for bathrooms. And I think at this point, I think they've brought in 90 million in funding or 50 million in funding, I forget. But it's like close to 100 million, and I'm think it's like doing really, really well.
27. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah, both of these are basically how do you renovate your bathroom so that you get a like super nice looking bathroom or in th- their case, kitchen also. Um, like just like pick from the menu. It's like here's, you know, here's five amazing bathroom designs. Pick one, and then we have people that can install that bathroom in your bathroom turnkey. Versus today, the way you do a renovation is like, "All right. What are you guys thinking for tile?" It's like, "I don't know. I never thought about tile. Uh, what are the options and how much does each one of these cost?" And like, "Okay, then what about sinks?" And you just sort of have to piecemeal it, whereas this was like a turnkey bathroom in a box, which is a great idea. This was one of the first ideas we brought up on, on this show, by the way, was I saw this ad and I was like, "This Made Renovation idea is amazing."
28. SPSam Parr
  Yeah.
29. SPShaan Puri
  And I should have just invested in it, 'cause back then it was like in a seed stage, like it was very early. And, um, yeah, both of these have done really well.
30. SPSam Parr
  Ha- have you ever tried to buy a bidet? So like what you can do is buy these like bidet c- uh, covers where basically it's like this like ... I mean, it's basically just a sophisticated toilet seat. And dude, they are so janky. Like you have like an electrical cord coming-
50:13 – 1:07:07
Concept: A Deal Doula
1. SPShaan Puri
  you don't have the reps in. So like most people who become, like, business owners, CEOs, you're great at product. You may be great at marketing. You might be good at finance and making money. But what you're not good at is stuff that you only do once in a while, like fundraising or, um, M&A or, um, you know, so things like that. The, sort of like these large one-off transactions that are very important, very expensive. You don't wanna get them wrong, but you also don't have reps doing it. And, um, and the other side, like when you're fundraising, the investor, they talk to hundreds of people like you every month. They're getting tons of reps, so it's a, it's a very asymmetric skill set. You don't really know how to negotiate like them. You don't know what clauses are standard and what are not standard. Um, so you don't have that same level of reps that the other party has. Same thing with M&A. You're going and talking to somebody who does M&A for a living, and, um, and they've done hundreds of deals, and you don't know the first thing about the first thing. And so here's the solution that most people have, right? Like, if you're really big, you can afford a banker. Like, uh, did you guys use a banker? I, I don't think so when you, when you sold, right? You may have-
2. SPSam Parr
  I had hired one
3. SPShaan Puri
  ... had some advisors, but...
4. SPSam Parr
  I had hired one, and then I disliked him, so I fired him, so I ended up being the banker.
5. SPShaan Puri
  Right. And same thing. When we sold, I was the banker, but I had a, a, a... I talked to a banker who could kinda like give me some free advice from time to time. This amazing guy.
6. SPSam Parr
  I had a really good lawyer. That was, like, a huge thing, although I do see the value in a banker. I do think that a good banker totally is worth the fee. A good lawyer is 100% needed.
7. SPShaan Puri
  Right. This guy, Dick Filippini, he, he, he was amazing actually. He was a banker that helped me. But I, we were too small for, like, his normal deals, right? He does the $100 million plus deals, and we were up way under that. So, um, so basically, I was like, "Okay. Well, I don't have... I could maybe do a boutique banker. But again, which one? I don't know. Who's good? Who's not?" Uh, you, you said you had a great lawyer. Cool, I got a lawyer. Is my lawyer great? [laughs] Are they okay? Are they good? Like, how am I supposed to assess this? And by the time you, you figure out if your lawyer was good or not in a transaction-
8. SPSam Parr
  It's too late
9. SPShaan Puri
  ... it's too late. [laughs] It's done. Same thing with tax strategy or negotiation, all these different components. And so I had talked about, like, um, doing this process is, like, a very... Fundraising is usually, like, an intense sprint. Uh, M&A is, like, an intense sprint. It's this couple month process that you work on really hard. It becomes your main focus. At the end of the day, you're trying to, like, get to this amazing endpoint. And I was like, I m- made the comparison. I was like, "It's like birthing a baby." And you go through this labor process, and then by the end, you, like, you have the thing you wanted at the end. And so just like when you're having a baby, you, you, you might have a doula. A doula is somebody that kinda like, they're not your doctor, right? This... The doctor would be like your lawyer, right? Uh, they're not your nurse. They're, which would be like maybe your, your CPA. Um, they're just somebody who's there to coach you, guide you, and they've been, they've seen the births of hundreds of babies, whereas this might be your first. And I talked about you need a deal doula. I was like, "If you're gonna do a deal, if you're gonna do a transaction, you're gonna do a fundraising, you need a deal doula."
10. SPSam Parr
  A deal doula.
11. SPShaan Puri
  It's different than a mentor. A mentor is this, like, general thing in life that's, like, gonna be your, kind of like your, you know, the better version of your dad. And a deal doula is specific. It's for this period of time. It's around one specific problem or process that you're going through. And I talked about how when I, when I sold my last company, I had these five deal doulas I started with. And ev- eventually, it ended up being these two that I was working with the most, but, like, I talked to five people.
12. SPSam Parr
  Like Suely and, uh, who else?
13. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. Uh, there was this guy, Fuad, who I talked to, who gave me great advice. Like, he told me one thing. Like, each one of them told me, like, one thing that was really important. So that guy Dick was one of them. Uh, but, like, for example, Fuad told me, he's like, "You need to t-" He's like, "Oh, cool." I was like so excited. I was like, "Look, we got this, like, these guys are interested. They're about to give us a term sheet tomorrow." And he was like, you know, just sort of chuckling, and he's like, "Sure." I was like, "Oh, you don't think they'll do it?" He's like, "It'll happen. It's just every timeline you think of is wrong. Everything they say is gonna fall through, and then come back, and then half fall through again." He's like, "This is the normal M&A process. So you might have an outlier where it just all goes smoothly, but, like, if you're gonna have a normal M&A process, you should expect these bumps and bruises." And it's like, you know, going through these contractions basically. There's, like, painful ups and downs during the process. He also said, he's like, "You need to turn your company into a giant buy button." I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "You know when you go to Amazon, it's like one-click checkout?" He's like, "You think because these guys are giving you a term sheet, you're at the end?" He's like, "This is when you're gonna have to sprint the hardest." He's like, "Let me see your data room." I was like, "Oh, well, yeah, we're, we're working on it." He's like, "Wrong answer, bucko." Like, you know-
14. SPSam Parr
  [laughs]
15. SPShaan Puri
  ... you know? That's what you sh- you shouldn't be at lunch with me. You should be turning your company into a buy button. You need everything so organized, so precise, uh, ready for them, answer all of their questions, uh-
16. SPSam Parr
  Dude, did, did I show you my data room?
17. SPShaan Puri
  You did, yeah.
18. SPSam Parr
  I had a fire data room.
19. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah.
20. SPSam Parr
  Me and this woman named Edie, this woman named Edie who works with me. Edie's probably, I think she's in her 60s, and when I hired her, she was great, but she didn't, like, know how to use technology really. And I would h- it would be, like, me and her on the phone with HubSpot, and HubSpot would have, like- Five representatives. Then they would have, like, six lawyers who are probably two grand an hour apiece. Then they would have, like, six accountants. And so, like, this meeting cost them $50,000. And it'd be Edie and I, and they would be asking us questions about different documents. And we're like, "Okay, we'll get it for you." And I remember them, like, having a list. And Edie didn't know how to take a screenshot on a computer, and I'd just hear her constantly-
21. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
22. SPSam Parr
  ... with her phone. And every once in a while, she would bring it up, and her phone just taking-
23. SPShaan Puri
  She- [laughs]
24. SPSam Parr
  ... taking pictures of the screen. Uh, and I could just hear, and I would have to message her, "Edie, put your phone on silent. I know what you're doing."
25. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
26. SPSam Parr
  And she was just taking pictures, and we would-
27. SPShaan Puri
  She... You know we talked about fierce nerds? Edie is like a fierce grandmother. Like, I would go to your office, and Edie would be like, "Oh, how is, you know, how is your daughter?" Like, she knows her name. She's like, "Remember my daughter's name." Was like, "Show me pictures." She was, like, so kind and cuddly.
28. SPSam Parr
  She's the best.
29. SPShaan Puri
  And then she'd be like, "You submitted your invoice wrong, bitch." Like, you know, [laughs] "What are you doing?"
30. SPSam Parr
  Yeah. [laughs]