We Bet This App Idea Could Be Bigger Than Reddit

Shaan Puri 0:00 Sam, I wanna start with an idea today. I have an idea that I genuinely believe is gonna be big if somebody does it. I've tried to convince one of my smartest friends to do this, but they're already a little too rich and too happy to, to go try something new. So I'm putting this out there to the universe. If anybody does this, more power to you. [upbeat music] The funny thing about this idea is that it started off on one of our drunk idea episodes [laughs] which we do from time to time where we take like, I don't know, half-baked ideas, kinda bad ideas, but maybe there's a nugget in there that's interesting, and we call it Drunk Ideas, where we, we both get a little tipsy, we pretend to be at least, and we, we pitch each other ideas.

Sam Parr 0:46 What was the drunk idea?

Shaan Puri 0:47 So the drunk idea was called Better Than Google. Do you remember this one?

Sam Parr 0:51 Is that the Facebook group?

Shaan Puri 0:52 It's the Facebook group. [laughs]

Sam Parr 0:53 I joined it. I love it.

Shaan Puri 0:55 Are you in it?

Sam Parr 0:55 I joined it. Yes.

Shaan Puri 0:56 [laughs]

Sam Parr 0:56 I love it.

Shaan Puri 0:57 [laughs] They didn't ac- they didn't accept my request. Oh, man. I, I'm sitting here pending still.

Sam Parr 1:01 So, like, here's an example. Uh, yesterday there was this woman who, like, wasn't that pretty, and she was, like, 23 years old, and she was like, "Can I or should I get Botox now? Will I look prettier?"

Shaan Puri 1:13 Right.

Sam Parr 1:13 And she posted her face.

Shaan Puri 1:14 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:14 And there was, like, all these very positive, not necessarily positive like you do or do not need it, but like, you know, we're not gonna make fun of you, but here's the pros and cons.

Shaan Puri 1:23 The premise of this, the... Just to back up a second. There was a Instagram influencer. I think his name, her name's Amber Lancaster, and Amber Lancaster is a Instagram mom. She's got, you know, a million followers or whatever, and she had created this group, and I think she kind of, like, created it, but she's very hands-off with it. It's not, like, a very calculated thing that she did. And so the group is called Better Than Google, and the premise is inside this group is, like, 17,000 kinda like millennial moms, like moms, like her audience, people who, you know... 'Cause I was asking my wife. I was like, "What is the group?" And she's like, "Well, it's just a bunch of moms who are like, we're all kind of, like, in our 30s. We all wanna have a good life, be a good mom, be a good spouse, watch good TV shows, be healthy. Like, we just have, like, a certain set of things. We're just trying to have a, a certain quality of life. And in doing so, if you put a bunch of those pe- moms together, then they could really help each other out. It's better than Google. If you ask a question here, you're gonna get better than Google type of answers."

Sam Parr 2:17 Here's an example question: "Has anyone found an effective way to get rid of cellulite? I'm pretty petite and I work out daily, but my legs still has cellulite." And it has 30 comments of people discussing how they did or didn't get rid of cellulite.

Shaan Puri 2:29 100%. It's like a media company. It's got juicy content, just like clickbait, you know, click-worthy content, but there's no editors. There's no writers. This is just people's real lives. So, so a woman went on there and she was saying, "My husband was cheating on me. I found out. I confronted him about it. He got really defensive, and I wanna file for divorce, but then over the last few days, I noticed he was, he knew, he, like, referenced things that were in my private messages, like my messages to other people. Like, how is he reading my iMessage?" And then the world's greatest tech support was in the thread where it was like, "All right. You need to log out of your iCloud. You need to do this. You need to do this. He might have a second iPad that's connected to your thing, and that's how he's been able to read this." And they really helped her out. She's like, "Oh, thank you. I figured it out. He... There was this iPad and whatever. That's how he was reading my messages, and so now I can do whatever." That's a better answer than you would get if you just Googled the sort of same thing, and it's more trusted, and trust is the key word here. So when I originally came on this drunk ideas thing, I was just laughing. Better Than Google is just like a, you know, what a funny way to create a Google competitor. It's like, what's better than Google machine learning, artificial intelligence? It's like 10,000 moms who are bored and scrolling on their phone. [laughs] And it's, it's kinda true though. The wisdom of the crowds is actually, uh, you know, a very strong force, and the more I thought about it, the more I realized this is actually a really good potential business idea. Here's

Shaan Puri 3:50 why. So I've long since had this theory that whenever one thing gets really popular, it creates a craving for the opposite. So we see this in many ways. I've... A classic example of this was Facebook became the biggest social network in the world, and Facebook was basically, uh, photos, but it was permanent and public, right? You would post your albums there. Everybody could see them, and they stayed there forever. Well, as Facebook got more popular, it created the need for something like Snapchat, where you would have photos that are impermanent and not public. Private, right? And so Snapchat succeeded, but it wouldn't have succeeded unless Facebook had already shifted the way that culture was working and it, it almost created a craving in people for the opposite. And I think you see that today where the more the world got woke and, you know, "You can't say this," and, "You can't say that," and, "You have to use these pronouns. Do this, do that," and then it creates a craving for a character like an Andrew Tate or even a Donald Trump or somebody who's, "Oh, he's a straight shooter. He's just gonna call it like it is." And those people become very popular because they're a counterpunch to the way that things are going or the w- uh, the, the other strong opposition. So similarly, I started thinking about this. I said, "Man, in an AI world, a lot of shit's gonna change," and if you're gonna just type into, you know, a, a box and it's just gonna give you the answer, and it's gonna scrape the internet, it's just gonna give you some generic answer, that's gonna be big for sure. There's, there's definitely a market for that. But what's the opposite of that? What craving does that create? And what I realized is it's gonna create the craving for almost like the, the old village wisdom, right?

Sam Parr 5:24 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 5:24 How, how you can get answers from a bunch of humans who you could see their name and face, and they could tell you things that are their personal experience rather than generically the right answer. And I think that if somebody made an app that was the same premise, the Better Than Google premise, and it was a community of, you know, 10,000, 20,000 moms who are gonna answer questions, that would be a really powerful app. I think it would be really addictive 'cause you would get the type of content like the Botox question. By the way, one key thing is you could share anonymously in the groups. You go anonymous, and then you post about the infidelity in the marriage, and that's, that's part of why it works. So I think you would need those features. But think about how valuable that would be for a second. Like, if I could pick any one customer segment To have like a rabid community of, it would be moms. Like [laughs] it would be people that control the household budget in America. That would be the most valuable audience segment that you could have, and I think this is the way to get it.

Sam Parr 6:18 Do you remember ChaCha?

Shaan Puri 6:20 ChaCha. Was that like the old search engine that was kinda like this? Like a Yahoo Answers type of thing?

Sam Parr 6:25 Yeah. So I'm just pulling this up right now, but basically I remember it when I was in high school. S- and so that was about 2008.

Shaan Puri 6:31 [laughs]

Sam Parr 6:31 So it was launched in 2006. It went bankrupt in 2016. And so basically it was a service... And I, I didn't actually realize any of this, but it raised $6 million, including from Jeff Bezos. And they had 5,000 freelance guides, meaning people who they hired. And I would send a text message to ChaCha. I remember this was during the World Cup, and I was like testing it out, and I was like, "What's the tallest and what's the shortest player on this particular soccer team?" 'Cause I was just testing it out. And I think I paid them two or three cents or something like that. And they would message me back in like three minutes with an answer.

Shaan Puri 7:09 Right.

Sam Parr 7:09 And at the time it was amazing. And I'm just reading their, their page now. It looks like they actually had raised up to $60 million. And the, and they had something like 1.7 billion questions a month of people, that, that people were asking. And it was like magic back then, because we didn't have Google on our phone. I didn't have a smartphone. And I remember this being amazing. And eventually it went out of business because Google's just better. But I just don't know if it could ever make any money. I, I think I paid like two cents or something like that-

Shaan Puri 7:39 [laughs]

Sam Parr 7:39 ... a text message or something like that.

Shaan Puri 7:39 Well, well, that's the, that's the beauty of it. You don't need to actually pay for an expert answer. So, so like here's some different analogs to this. So you have, uh, Quora, which is a bunch of more, I would call it tech nerd type of community. And then you have GLG, which is highly paid intellectual information, right? And, uh, there's a different customer for that. For the customer for that is gonna be a hedge fund or a, uh, some sort of investment banker or something, something like that. And then you have Google, which is the general search. And you know, Google's market cap today is, I think, 2.3 trillion. And if you think about like search on the internet, so the big, the general search on the internet, Google, was 2.3 trillion. And then you can like silo that d- into different things, like searching for restaurants, it's like Yelp. And I don't know what Yelp's market cap is.

Sam Parr 8:26 I mean, it's billions, but it just hasn't grown in years.

Shaan Puri 8:29 Two billion, right? So you know, the search for restaurants and handymen in your area became two billion out of the two trillion. And then Glassdoor, which was like search for, you know, good places to work. And, so and then you have search for jobs, and then you have search for whatever. And there's a thousand tiny search engines, and these are all like single-digit billions companies, for the most part, that got created. And so I think... And, and then we have DuckDuckGo, which is kinda like the, uh, for the, you know, tech savvy person who cares about privacy and likes to not be doing the mainstream thing, here's DuckDuckGo. And we've talked about them before, about how much insane amount of traffic that they have. So I think that s- while search and this kinda question answer thing feels like a solved problem, um, and even the k- kinda community questions and answers, like you would think, "Well, why not Quora? Why not Reddit?" Dude, my wife is not getting on Quora and Reddit. Reddit is just like, it, it repels women. Like [laughs] ...

Sam Parr 9:23 Dude, isn't it funny how Reddit works? So Reddit is, I don't remember what they are now, but two years ago they were like the sixth or seventh most popular website. And yet if you asked people do they use Reddit, a very common answer was like, "What's Reddit?"

Shaan Puri 9:37 [laughs]

Sam Parr 9:38 It, it's a very strange thing. I love Reddit, by the way. I use, like if I-

Shaan Puri 9:42 I do too. It's made for dorks like us, right?

Sam Parr 9:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 9:45 It's made for guys with body odor, right?

Sam Parr 9:46 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 9:46 It's not made for the millennial mom who wants to go in a high-trust place and not get trolled and not get spammed and not get like, you know, made fun of and not... Like, she doesn't get all the weird memes, and they kind of like... It's just different. It's a different culture. And so I think that this kinda Reddit for moms, uh, angle, which you, you couldn't really... If you had pitched me that generically, I wouldn't have believe it. As soon as I saw Better Than Google, I thought, "Man, if somebody really created an app that's supposed to do this," and they seeded it correctly. The w- the, the beauty of this was it was seeded with only followers of a certain type of, of, uh, Instagram influencer, which created a like-minded community of, of, of members, and it excluded the general trolls of the internet. If you could find a way to do that again, I think that thing would scale, and I think that thing would be really, really valuable. The value per user would be really, really high.

Sam Parr 10:36 All right, guys, really quick. So back when I was running The Hustle, we had this premium newsletter called Trends. The way it worked was we hired a ton of analysts, and we created this sorta playbook for researching different companies and ideas and emerging trends to help you make money and build businesses. Well, HubSpot did something kinda cool. So they took this playbook that we developed and we gave to our analysts, and they turned it into an actionable guide and a resource that anyone can download. And it breaks down all the different methods that we use for spotting upcoming trends, for spotting different companies that are gonna explode and grow really quickly. So if you wanna stay ahead of the game and you wanna find cool business ideas or different niches that most people have no idea they exist, this is the ultimate guide. So if you wanna check it out, you can see the link down below in the description. Now back to the show. Let me play the, the pessimistic person right now.

Shaan Puri 11:24 Are you gonna devil's advocate me?

Sam Parr 11:25 Yeah, I'm gonna devil's [laughs] advocate you. I've built a handful of things, and one of the hardest things that I've tried to do that I've not been able to pull off is getting people... So like I, I own Fa- I own a variety of Facebook groups. Some of them have 80,000. There's one or two that, the, most of them have like two or three or 5,000. One has like 80,000. Get... And when we started them, I wanted to do a Facebook group because Facebook is where the person already was. When I, when I started a lot of these, it was like 2014, '15. And my reasoning was that getting someone to go specifically to a website, like, uh, for example, let's just say that you had like, uh, a food, uh, recipe website, and then they're like, "Well, let's just create a, a, a community for our readers to talk." So getting people to go to myrecipes.com/forum and to actively participate is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, and I've, I've never actually pulled it off. And so I think there are people who do know how to pull it off I think they're, those people are rare. Getting, getting people to come to a, a destination t- to type new content and to register for something, that is one of the hardest things to figure out, I think, uh, when it comes to mostly internet-based companies.

Shaan Puri 12:38 I agree. Uh, I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying I think there's a billion-dollar idea here, but like most billion-dollar ideas, it requires threading the needle. I'll give you one other analog to this. So in terms of shopping, you have the big retailers. I could go to, you know, target.com. I could go to macys.com, whatever. And then Amazon came out, and Amazon was like, "Cool. We'll just aggregate all the products." And it... Amazon's the, the Google of that space, right? It's the general shopping search. Then there's Etsy, and Etsy is, like, a complete counter to Amazon. It's never gonna be bigger than Amazon. It's always gonna be some tiny fraction of Amazon, but a tiny fraction of a giant number is still a pretty damn big number. And what Etsy did was they were like, "Cool. We will do basically moms buying from other moms. So how do we do handcrafted goods? How do we do things that are personalized?" Kind of the non-scalable, non-generic products only. And, um, you could see the maker. Here she is. You could trust her. She's got a, you know, her little shop. And so it cr- let anybody create a little shop and sell to other people who like to shop, kind of that same, like, you know, flea market type of, uh, vibe. And Etsy's totally succeeded because it was so different, and I think in a world that's going in a hyperfast speed towards AI, just tells you the answer, it's hyper int- intelligent, this is generically the answer for things, I think it's gonna create more than ever the, the desire for more of the Etsy feel, where it's like, yeah, cool, but what if I just wanted 100 other people like me who might have been through something like this to tell me their recommendations? So an- another thing that's really popular in this group will be like, "Hey, I got, like, an Amazon gift card. What are your best, best finds on Amazon? For me, here's my waist size. Here's my, my chest size. Here's whatever. Like, what will fit me well?" And they'll just be like, "Oh, here's really good Amazon finds that are, like, clothes that are actually, like, pretty good fitting and actually gonna last

Shaan Puri 14:30 long but are still good on a budget."

Sam Parr 14:32 How are you seeing this stuff? Are you like, "Hey, wife. Give me your phone," and, like-

Shaan Puri 14:35 Yeah

Sam Parr 14:35 ... you scroll on hers? Or is she, like, saying like, "Oh, hey, check out this-"

Shaan Puri 14:38 Well, she'll show me things, right? So first it was her showing me and me being like swatting away the phone like, "I don't care. W- who cares about this?" Like... And she's like, "No, like, this lady was looking for somebody, and then she asked the group, and then the group found that person that she had bumped into at the bus stop. It was crazy. They knew it because of the description of the shirt that he wears. And somebody said, 'Wait, I think I know that guy.'" And I'm like, "All right. Whatever. Who cares about this story?" And then the fourth or fifth time I was like, okay, every time I've paid attention to what my wife is really into, I'm, like, early to something that's actually, like, a very valuable investment. [laughs]

Sam Parr 15:06 What's another example of that?

Shaan Puri 15:08 I mean, the, the e-com brand that I started was, was very much in this, uh, this vein, but in general there's... Like, this is not new. Like Stanley mugs, right? Stanley mugs now are, like, all the rage. And, like, two years ago she just kept talking about this and, like, kept being so excited and wanting to show me about this, like, oh, l- jumbo, oversized, over-expensive mug that she bought, but this is, like, one of, like, a thousand examples-

Sam Parr 15:31 Right

Shaan Puri 15:31 ... of these types of things. And so yeah. Anyways, uh, this, this type of stuff I, I've learned that I should not ignore because she is really high signal when it comes to... She's a consumer. And she's a specific type of consumer that is the opposite of me, right? I am, like, an internet native person. I am the early adopter of products. She's the opposite. But the things that do kinda pass her filter, there's something there.

Sam Parr 15:54 Are you still using-

Shaan Puri 15:55 Is your wife the same way, by the way? Uh, like, uh, are, is that a signal for you?

Sam Parr 15:59 Uh, no. No, it's not. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 16:02 And why is that?

Sam Parr 16:03 I mean, m- uh, uh, my wife is, uh, a young millennial or an old Gen Z. I guess she's, uh, 31. And so typically it's with, like, TikTok trends. So, like, for example, remember the Hawk Tuah thing? Like, I, I, I had to be like-

Shaan Puri 16:20 [laughs]

Sam Parr 16:20 ... "Dude, what the hell is this about? Like, what is this thing?"

Shaan Puri 16:23 She's like your Urban Dictionary?

Sam Parr 16:24 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 16:25 [laughs]

Sam Parr 16:25 If it's like there's some new, like, singer name like Charlie X sup- she's like, "So this woman's gonna be, like, a hu- a huge deal." Uh, and I'm like, "Why?" She's like, "Well, just all my friends are talking about it, and it's popular on TikTok." And so-

Shaan Puri 16:37 Yeah

Sam Parr 16:37 ... she, she, we, we do it like that. So no, but not, like, business stuff. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 16:42 Like, you know, like those Golden Goose shoes. Do you know those shoes?

Sam Parr 16:46 Those are so stupid.

Shaan Puri 16:47 Those like f- like fucking dirty shoes that are $700.

Sam Parr 16:49 Oh, they're so dumb.

Shaan Puri 16:50 Uh, she was, like, really early on that too, on that train. And then, like, another one-

Sam Parr 16:53 Did she buy them?

Shaan Puri 16:54 Uh, no, 'cause she's vegan. So that was, like, another thing, that she was vegan, like, a lot, like, a lot earlier than before the plant-based became, like, a bigger deal. And so I used to be like, "Okay, uh, you know, great. High maintenance. Uh, where do we find, like, milk or butter or, like, any of the things that you need to do stuff?" And she would find these niche brands. She'd be like, "Oh, I really love Oatly. Oatly's really great." This was before Oatly was, like, in coffee shops and all that stuff. And Oatly was this, it's this brand that's, like, I don't know. It was, like, a Swedish brand or something, something in, in Europe. And nobody ever heard of it. And it's got this funky bottle. And I remember, you know, whatever, like seven years ago, uh, she was showing me all these plant-based products and then these creators who were really small at the time, but they were plant-based creators that are now all huge 'cause plant-based recipes became very popular. Another version of this was Kayla Itsines, who we, we talked about on here. I don't even know how you say her last name. But she's, like, the fitness influencer.

Sam Parr 17:41 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 17:42 So when I was like, "Hey, do you wanna, like, do, like, I don't know, like a, like... Shall we get a trainer? Let's work out together?" She would be like-

Sam Parr 17:47 Yeah, my wife is doing that shit too. Did she buy the PDF?

Shaan Puri 17:49 First she bought the PDF. I'm like, "You're using a PDF to work out?" She's like, "Yeah, it's great." And I'm like, "A PDF? You paid for a PDF? You don't pay for anything." And she's like-

Sam Parr 17:56 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 17:57 "I just really trust her." I'm like, "Who is this random woman in Australia? Like, who is this person?" And then sure enough, she then creates the Sweat app. Sweat app then becomes, like, a multi-hundred million dollar app. And again, I was kind of like, "Dude, why are you paying attention to this random Instagram influencer? Like, she's not even, like, a real trainer. Like, why don't you watch these videos or why don't you go to this, this official certified thing?" But no, her trust was in a certain type of person. And I kinda wrote that off, but then later I learned, like, actually, that's just the way the world is going. That's where people are gonna get their information. That's where people are gonna get their trust from in a kinda noisier and noisier world.

Sam Parr 18:30 Sarah was like that with me with Ember- E- Emma Chamberlain. Do you watch Emma Chamberlain?

Shaan Puri 18:35 I, I don't, but I know about her.

Sam Parr 18:36 Dude, this woman is the best. I'm like... It... She's like Casey Neistat for chicks.

Shaan Puri 18:40 [laughs]

Sam Parr 18:40 And I'm, like, going back and, like, watching all of her old stuff. She's so darling. Like, I'm all about it.

Shaan Puri 18:46 [laughs]

Sam Parr 18:46 Um, by the way, uh, are you still using OpenAI every day as a search engine?

Shaan Puri 18:52 Yeah. Not just as a search engine.

Shaan Puri 18:54 Can I tell you about a crazy thing that I did with OpenAI, or, uh, ChatGPT, basically?

Sam Parr 18:57 Yeah, what?

Shaan Puri 18:58 This is... Uh, like, nobody else is gonna care about this, but I think, uh... Uh, whatever. I give a shit, and I think you will find this interesting, too. So I've been playing around with the idea of writing a, a movie. And so I was... But I've never done a... I've never made a movie before, not a filmmaker. Never-

Sam Parr 19:11 Do a play. Do a play

Shaan Puri 19:11 ... never written a script, never written a screenplay. I thought about play, but I had a specific idea for a movie. There's a movie that... There's a book that I wanted to buy the rights to to turn into a movie, and so I've been, like, down this rabbit hole trying to do that.

Sam Parr 19:22 Do I know what book it is? You don't, don't say it-

Shaan Puri 19:24 Yeah

Sam Parr 19:24 ... but do I know what it is?

Shaan Puri 19:25 I... Yeah, I can't say it, but yes, you would, you would definitely know it. And it's like the rights have bounced around from big studio to big studio, and it just never got made for one reason or another. Oh, COVID happens, and then production dies. Or, oh, this, this person's on board, and then they get canceled, and then the, the project stalls out. And I'm like, "I can't believe this has not been turned into a movie yet." And so, um, so anyways, I'm in this, like, really s- like, interesting path right now where I'm trying to acquire the rights to, like, create a movie. [laughs] But along the way I was like, "Hey, maybe I should, like, figure out how movies are even made, and, like, how this works." So aside from, like, normal ChatGPT stuff where I'm like, "How do movies get made? What's the name of the person who doesn't know how to do anything but provides the money and the, the will to make it happen?" They're like, "That's called an ex- executive producer." [laughs]

Sam Parr 20:06 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 20:07 And, like, I had a, a kind of amazing, magical experience with ChatGPT. So here's what happened. I've used ChatGPT to, um, like, question and answer. Uh, I don't know this. Tell me... Do this or explain this to me. What I hadn't used it for was as kind of a creative assistant. Uh, have you ever used it in that way? Or can... Should I describe what I mean by that?

Sam Parr 20:28 Yeah. Like, sometimes what I'll do is I'll upload... Like, I use the... I'll download... I, I got this, uh, tool where, like, for example, Scott Galloway. I love his writing. He's got 100 blog posts.

Shaan Puri 20:38 Yeah.

Sam Parr 20:38 I got this tool where it downloaded in PDF all of his blog posts. I uploaded it all to ChatGPT. I called the voice Scott. I'll write something. I'll say, "Rewrite it in Scott's voice." And I won't use the whole thing, but I'll just one or two nuggets. I'm like, "That's a cool sentence. I'm gonna be inspired-

Shaan Puri 20:53 Right

Sam Parr 20:53 ... by that." So I'll use it a little bit like that.

Shaan Puri 20:55 Yeah, that's sick. And so I did the same thing, and I was like, "You know who I love? I love Aaron Sorkin." Uh, Aaron Sorkin wrote, you know, The Social Network and West Wing and Newsroom and a bunch of cool things. He's known for his, like, snappy, fast-paced dialogue that's witty, and specifically there's, like, a bunch of, like, really nuanced things he does where one character says something to the other. The... Uh, like, let's say in the, the begi- the beginning scene of The Social Network. So the beginning scene is Zuck talking to some girl he's on a date with.

Speaker 21:20 [upbeat music] Did you know there are more people with genius IQs living in China than there are people of any kind living in the United States? That can't possibly be true. It is. What would account for that? Well, first, an awful lot of people live in China, but there's that question. How do you distinguish yourself in a population of people who all got 1600 on their SATs? I didn't know they take SATs in China. They don't. I wasn't talking about China anymore. I was talking about me. You got a 1600? Yes. I could sing in a acapella group, but I can't sing. Does that mean you actually got nothing wrong? I could row crew or invent a $25 PC. Or you get into a final club? Or I get into a final club. You know, from a woman's perspective, sometimes not singing in an acapella group is a good thing. This is serious. On the other hand, I do like guys who row crew. Well, I can't do that. I was kidding. [laughs] And yes, I got nothing wrong on the test. Have you ever tried? I'm trying right now. To row crew? To get into a final club. To row crew, no. Are you, like, whatever, delusional? Maybe it's just sometimes you say two things at once. I'm not sure which one I'm supposed to be aiming at. But you've seen guys who row crew, right?

Sam Parr 22:14 It's an awesome first scene.

Shaan Puri 22:16 And she, she's still catching up on the SATs in China, but he's, like, moved to the next part, and it creates these little misunderstandings, this little bit of tension. And it's part of why the dialogue really keeps you because-

Sam Parr 22:25 Yeah

Shaan Puri 22:25 ... it doesn't feel rehearsed. It feels genuinely like two people kind of in a quick rally, conversational rally th- with the ball back and forth.

Sam Parr 22:32 It makes a non-fast-paced scene feel fast-paced.

Shaan Puri 22:35 Exactly. The whole scene is, like, seven minutes or something long. It's a long scene, which is a long time in a movie for just two characters just to be talking to each other. That's usually, like, breaks a rule of film, where you wanna break it up with action and movement and all these other things to keep people's attention, but he doesn't do that. Anyway, so I upload that scene, and I say, "Here's the screenplay for that."

Sam Parr 22:55 How did you upload

Sam Parr 22:56 it? You uploaded the screenplay?

Shaan Puri 22:57 So it turns out all movie scripts are, like, available online. Like, the actual original script is just there, uh, online. So I go and grab the PDF. I put it into ChatGPT, and I say, "You're my creative assistant. We're writing a scene for this movie. Here's the situation, two characters, and let's put them in a, whatever, coffee shop." All right, first I said, "Explain to me what makes Aaron Sorkin's dialogue so good in this first scene." And then it explains it. I say, "Great. Using those characteristics, write a new scene for this." And what it did was... So it spits out a scene, and then the scene kinda sucks, but it spits it out instantly. And so, like, there's this trade between speed and quality. And even though the quality was quite bad, the speed was incredible. It was, like, took two seconds. So then I could just start to inch up the quality by giving it feedback. And so then I'm like, "Cool, but I don't think it's believable that the character would say this. For the first line, I think it should do this." And then it goes, "Sure, I've taken your suggestions. Wrote it, wrote it again." I say, "Okay, cool. But, like, maybe instead of coffee shop, put it in a, in a restaurant. And, uh, change it to the restaurant because I want the waitress to say this." And then it does it again. I say, "Cool, but give me an alternative." Just like, "No, not that bad. I don't really know why. Just give me another alternative." It gives me another alternative. And then I say, "Okay, cool, but make it faster and snappier. And actually, I want the one character to be a little bit of an asshole." Tries, does it again. And I... What I realized was I was doing this, and I just kinda step, stepped back for a second. I said, "Wow, this is amazing." It's... What do I have here? I have a on-demand creative collaborator. It was 1:00 AM when I was doing this. I couldn't have called somebody and been like, "Hey, do you wanna just Wake up real quick and just, uh, start writing with me. So in the moment where inspiration struck, I was able to, like, instantly have a genius creative collaborator who had... who spit out instant first drafts, which let me not have to have the blank page, which is the biggest enemy to any creator, right? Instead of being the author, I got to be the editor. So now ChatGPT is the author. I'm just the editor who's like, "No, something else. Uh, try again. Tweak this a little bit this way. Give me another variation with this happening," and it would instantly, instantly give me another one back. And I thought, wow. The difference here would be, let's say I had a human doing this. A, they wouldn't have been online. Let's say they- Let's say I caught them the next day when inspiration was half as much as it was in the middle of the, the night there. Then I would say, "Can you write a draft of this?" That would've taken a week. Then they would've come to me after a week. Again, my, my... I'm out of flow. I'm now worried about 10 other things in life, and then they would've given it to me, and now I would have to, as you say, bubble wrap it for them. I'd have to give them feedback, but I can't bruise their ego. They just worked so hard all week giving me exactly what I asked for. So now I have to say, "Hey, I really like part of it, but I just think maybe we could c- like, would you be okay if we tried something like this? Not to say this is bad, but I just wanna try, just for, you know..." And I'd have to do all that, and then I'd bubble wrap it, and then I'd give them the advice. Then it'd take another week to get the second draft. And now on the second draft, I have to give half as much feedback because if I really push it even further or if I say, "Nope, still try again," bruised egos. So I'm like, wow, you have a on-demand creative assistant who can instantly mimic and learn from any input I give it. Like, write this in the style of this. Write this in the style of this. Pretend this person is the director, has no ego, takes feedback instantaneously, and creates the revisions instantaneously. And by the end of it, I actually had a dope scene that was written. A, a dope opening scene to a movie, and I'm a guy who's never written a screenplay before. For me to have done that without AI would've been, I don't know, 100 times harder. So I thought that was pretty cool.

Sam Parr 26:18 How was the output, the final product?

Shaan Puri 26:20 The final product is pretty good. It's like, I mean, of course it's not, you know, Aaron Sorkin, but, like, it's a hell of a lot better than Shaan. [laughs] So you know, I, I got a superpower to be able to do that, and I would say it is on par with, like, the average or slightly above average from a, a professional who I would've paid tens of thousands of dollars to write me a script.

Sam Parr 26:41 Man, that's... Like, I guess when I watch a movie, I kinda take for granted that someone had to sit down and write all that crap out.

Shaan Puri 26:48 [laughs]

Sam Parr 26:48 That's so much work. [laughs] Like, that's so much work, and that would be so much, uh, when... And so when we tell that story of Sylvester Stallone doing... How fast did he do Rocky?

Shaan Puri 26:57 He wrote the first draft in three and a half days.

Sam Parr 26:59 That's insane [laughs] to me.

Shaan Puri 27:00 Yeah.

Sam Parr 27:00 That's insane.

Shaan Puri 27:01 But also if you watch Rocky you're like, "Okay, it's... this is not rocket science." [laughs] The script is not, like, super sophisticated either. Um-

Sam Parr 27:07 It's still a lot. You're making a whole world, but yeah.

Shaan Puri 27:09 Let me tell you two other things. So on that note, so you had, um... So writing the thing, the, the, the other cool thing I got out of it, you know, when I wasn't writing I was watching, like, vid- videos of Aaron Sorkin talking about his process, and one of the things he says is, he's like, "People don't understand. To get one good idea," he's like, "my brain is a Rolodex flipping through 50,000 bad ideas." And he's like, "I have just exhausted so many dead-end paths that this could've gone to find the one path that kinda works." And I thought that's such a good analogy for how all creation works. I'm, y- I'm sure you feel the same way about marketing ideas or business ideas. Like, your brain flips through 50,000 permutations of what you could work on and how we could work, what the business model could be, and then in the end it pops out and it's like, "Oh, Hampton's a great idea, dude. You know, like, congrats. It seems like it just worked right away." It's like, yeah, it worked right away because my brain went through the idea maze on a speed run, and I bumped into so many walls, and I flipped through so many ideas and permutations of what this could and could not have been until I finally figured out one that, that would work.

Sam Parr 28:07 Yeah, and it's like magic how it comes out, and it's crazy that the... You know, we talk about the, uh, shower thoughts, and it's like it is weird how I spend so much time thinking about something and all the permutations, and then when I'm out on a bike ride it just like, wait, why didn't I think of that? And you know, it just kinda all... It, it is like a magical process, and if I had to do that for a script for money, that would be very hard.

Shaan Puri 28:27 [laughs]

Sam Parr 28:28 Um, do we have to do a shill real quick?

Shaan Puri 28:31 Yeah, let's do it. Speaking of writing.

Sam Parr 28:33 Speaking of writing.

Shaan Puri 28:34 Speaking of writing-

Sam Parr 28:35 Shaan-

Shaan Puri 28:35 If you're trying to get your writing out there the way that Sam did it, the way that I did it, the two businesses that we built that we sold and, and, uh, probably, I don't know, some of the, the simpler, easier... Would you say some of the simpler, easier businesses that we ever made?

Sam Parr 28:48 The simplest.

Shaan Puri 28:49 The simplest was a newsletter business, and if you're gonna do a newsletter business, back when we started it, well, back when you started The Hustle, for sure you built a bunch of things homegrown.

Sam Parr 28:58 I had three engineers on staff. I had three engineers on staff, and we had to build everything. And then I had, like, two or three growth people, and they spent half of their time filling out Excel sheets to try to just track all the information.

Shaan Puri 29:11 Right.

Sam Parr 29:11 It was-

Shaan Puri 29:12 Or build a referral program or, uh, you know, go... And then you had 20 people in ad sales, right? Like, going, just trying to generate revenue.

Sam Parr 29:18 Oh, you have, we have, uh, I think we had, like, 15 people in ad sales, and then we had, like, three people supporting them. All just to... So we basically, when we sold the company, we were, we were gonna do about $20 million that year in revenue, and we had something like 35 people but only two writers.

Shaan Puri 29:33 [laughs]

Sam Parr 29:33 And it was insane. It was insane. Like, it was actually only two writers.

Shaan Puri 29:37 And one writer was just in case the first writer got sick. [laughs]

Sam Parr 29:39 Basic- Yes. It was 1,500 words a day. It, it was not that hard.

Shaan Puri 29:43 So-

Sam Parr 29:43 And so we had to build all of these tools. It was a pain in the ass.

Shaan Puri 29:46 Let's do a little bit of math on this just real quick. So do you remember what your OPEX or payroll costs roughly were for writing that one newsletter that had two writers but had 18, uh, you know, had 33 other people in the company-

Sam Parr 29:58 Uh-

Shaan Puri 29:58 ... that were doing all the other functions?

Sam Parr 29:59 So two writers probably each made 150, so add about 20% to that for healthcare. So we'll just round up to $200,000. So $200,000 for three writers is $600,000, and then we had roughly 30 people beyond those guys. So what's that, like, $8 million?

Shaan Puri 30:14 [laughs] Yeah, something like that. So 8 million bucks, and just even just the engineers part, right? 'Cause I remember you were building, like, a tool that would segment the audience. You were building an AB testing tool. You were building all these little features to b- to be better at your newsletter. You lived in San Francisco at the time. A San Francisco engineer, even with theSamParr special scrappy find somebody, convince them-

Sam Parr 30:34 200 grand

Shaan Puri 30:34 ... that this is the dream, 200 grand each. Right? So you're paying basically 600 grand- Just on product cost

Sam Parr 30:40 And the products weren't even that good

Shaan Puri 30:42 [laughs]

Sam Parr 30:44 Like, you know, like I'm not a tech company, but-

Shaan Puri 30:45 Yeah, exactly

Sam Parr 30:46 ... I had to like... It was hard

Shaan Puri 30:46 So not your core competency. Well, instead, uh, how much does Beehiiv cost a month? I think Beehiiv's like 99 bucks a month or something like that, and they got like a free plan too. And so instead of spending 600,000 a year, you could have spent $39 a month. That's the, that's the price of the most popular plan, the scale plan, and with that you get the ad network, so they'll, they'll do your ad sales for you. You get subscriptions, so you put a paywall in and you can actually do subscriptions. You don't have to build that feature. You get a website builder. You get all the email automation so that when somebody signs up, f- uh, you know, 60 minutes later you send them this, and one day later you send them this, and then after they refer a friend, it automatically sends them this. You have the referral program, which was huge for you, huge for us, and required basically like one and a half to two people to run on our side.

Sam Parr 31:28 You, you didn't have an engineer, did you?

Shaan Puri 31:30 We didn't have an engineer 'cause Beehiiv was out when we started The Milk Road. So we just used Beehiiv. But half of these features didn't exist when we did The Milk Road. So I remember when we were building it, we were like, "Hey, do you have this automations feature? Do you have analytics that will do this, this and this? Do you have surveys or polls?" So at the bottom of the email, we would always write, "How was it?" And it was five stars, three stars, or one star. And we used that to basically give feedback to the writers on like what worked, what didn't, um, in each newsletter, and we could actually measure the quality of the writing, the quality of the, of the content. And now they have all those features. So if you wanna do a newsletter today, no-brainer, use Beehiiv. It's beehiiv.com, B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com. The only downside is their name spelling is really hard, but everything else beside... Once you get past the name-

Sam Parr 32:12 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 32:12 ... everything is gravy. [laughs]

Sam Parr 32:14 Um, all right. Let me tell you a, a quick story about someone who I spoke with the other day, and it was kind of a life-changing conversation. So for Hampton, we have this podcast called Money Wise, where we get people to come on and they explain all their finances, whatever. They're like-

Shaan Puri 32:26 Spill the beans about the beans, you know what I mean?

Sam Parr 32:27 They s- I, yeah, I'm stealing that one. Thank you.

Shaan Puri 32:29 [laughs]

Sam Parr 32:29 That one's now mine. Uh, [laughs] and they like break down their whole portfolio, whatever. But this woman I talked to... Have you heard of this company called Solidcore?

Shaan Puri 32:38 No.

Sam Parr 32:38 I-

Shaan Puri 32:38 Uh, I've been described as that person-

Sam Parr 32:40 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 32:40 ... but n- never at a company level.

Sam Parr 32:42 I bet your wife has heard of it. So her name's Anne Mahlum. So Anne is probably 41 right now. And so let me tell you her story, 'cause this was like mind-boggling to me. So Anne started, uh, her career at the age of 25. She started a nonprofit because she was out on a run, and she ran by a homeless shelter, and she was like, "You know, I would love to figure out a way to help these people. Running has helped me get over a lot of issues in my life. I should start a running club for these guys, and if I make them get up... or if I encourage them to get up early at 7:00 AM to come to this run, maybe that's gonna encourage them to make the rest of their day better, and hopefully they'll get jobs," whatever. So she starts this thing called Back to my Feet, and it's a non-profit that does something like $6 million a year in revenue, so which is like, uh, in like corporate sponsors. She does that over the course of five years. So at the age of 31, she goes to LA, and she takes a Pilates class. So have you ever seen like a reformer Pilates?

Shaan Puri 33:35 Yeah.

Sam Parr 33:35 It's like this weird, like machine, where it's kinda like yoga on a machine, sorta. I- it's kind of sh-

Shaan Puri 33:41 I've heard it's... I, I've never done one, but I've heard it's like incredibly challenging.

Sam Parr 33:44 It's awesome. They're, they're, they're really awesome. It's mostly what women do and... but after talking to Anne, I'm actually gonna start doing it because it sounds pretty great. And she r- goes to this class, and she's like a pretty intense runner, and I think she would, did weightlifting, and she kinda got, was like, "I get hurt every six months. I just, I just expect that that's part of the process of being an athlete."

Shaan Puri 34:03 Right.

Sam Parr 34:03 She starts doing these classes, and she's like, "This is awesome," and the class was really cute and darling, whatever, and she was like, "I wanna do this." And so up until that point, she had saved $175,000,

Sam Parr 34:14 and so she moves back, goes back to her hometown of Washington, DC, and she goes, "I wanna start a studio, and I'm gonna retire from my nonprofit," which a lot of people called her crazy because they're like, "Why do you wanna start like a gym? Like gyms suck. They're horrible businesses." She's like, "No, no, no. We're gonna do a studio business." So she quits her job, I believe in August, and by November she started her studio. She started with $175,000. She said she transferred her $175,000 in savings, put all of it into the business account, and spent basically all of it except for 10 grand over two months building out the studio. And so she launches it, and Solidcore, that's the name of the business, it's like that Pilates thing, but it's kinda has like a Barry's kind of edge to it. You know, like Barry's Bootcamp, where it's kinda like cool, like all black letters.

Shaan Puri 34:57 Like the music is just like 40% too loud.

Sam Parr 34:59 Yeah. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 35:00 [laughs]

Sam Parr 35:00 Yeah. Like it's like, it's like intense-

Shaan Puri 35:02 It looks like a nightclub.

Sam Parr 35:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like cool. And she starts this thing and in month one does $90,000 in revenue, and the reason she started it was she was just doing the math. She's like, "Look, like the way that this business can work is I have my Pilates instructor. I don't even need like a front desk person. The front desk person doesn't need to be there because we have classes going throughout the day, and if I have like 15 of these reformers and I do eight classes a day, that adds up to $3,000 a day. I think I could fill this up seven days a week and get to 90 grand." And she does that in year one.

Shaan Puri 35:33 And did she tell you how she did that kind of 90 grand month one? Was there like... How did she get the customers to come to this new, new place?

Sam Parr 35:39 Yeah, just like flyers and stuff.

Shaan Puri 35:41 Okay.

Sam Parr 35:41 Just like telling all of her friends. Like it was like super grassroots, and if you do the math, it, it's, it wasn't that crazy. I think her math was something like, "I need 15 people in every class" or something like that, and it wasn't that crazy, and she also was really good at branding. So these women would go to these classes and they're like, "This is awesome. I'll see you guys next Tuesday." You know what I mean? Like they wanted to do it over and over and over again. So in month one it does $90,000 in revenue. She says that she kept growing it, and by year two she goes, "I was able to pay myself a million dollars in salary." She goes, "This thing took off because my costs were so low. I basically just had to build out the studio, which wasn't terribly expenses- expensive, and I had to build, buy these reformers," which are like the machines. And she's like, "Our cost basis was awesome. We, we had a very efficient operation." And so by year... So we're in, uh, 2013 she launches, launched it. By year 2016, she has 11 studios. Still to this point has not taken any outside funding. Keeps growing it- By in 2020, shit happens where, like, everything hits the fan. COVID happens. They have to pause the whole business for a couple years. However, leading up to that, she had taken a little bit of funding, and along the way she had taken PE where she took a little bit of money off the table. So I think it was something like she was paying herself, like, $2 million a year, but then took off. I think she raised $18 million, of which 6 went to her, and then she raised another, like, $20 million, and then another 10 went to her. And then finally, after 10 years, she eventually has sold the whole business for something like $250 million, and across all of the rounds she had taken off the table something like $90 million.

Sam Parr 37:21 And so this woman's, like, crazy successful. However, the big takeaway that I had from this lady, Anne, I have never met someone with such a great growth mindset, and let me give you an example. After I sold my business, I was interested in real estate. I learned everything about real estate or at least enough to kind of feel confident investing in it. I start investing into it, and I get scared. I get real nervous. I'm like, "Man, I just put down a lot of capital." Like, "This isn't exactly working like I thought it would be working." Like, it's not always up to the right, and I got bail... And I got afraid, and I bailed. And I've done this many times. Have you ever done this where, like, you learn about something? Like, you'll learn about, like, let's say fitness, and you're like, "Well, if I do this for six months," but then you get, like, in month one, and you're like, "This is never going to work." She did not have that. I've never met someone like her that trusted the process so much, and she would tell people, like, in year two or three, she's like, "I'm building this business to sell, and so we're gonna do this. And then by year five, we're gonna be here. Year eight, we're gonna be here. Year 10, I think we're gonna get, like, $200 million." And here's a- an example of what she said. When she originally took out... She had saved $10 million. She bought a piece of land and developed a home in the Dominican Republic for, like, 4 million bucks in total. Sold that property after, like, two years to Albert Pujols for, like, $9 million. And I was like, "That's crazy. Well, you s- you did half your net worth, uh, on this." She's like, "Yeah. Well, I just, like, studied a bunch of experts. I read a ton of books, and I just, like, felt like I knew how to do it." And I've never met someone who has such faith in the process, and I was so inspired by that. And now she's got over $100 million or around $100 million, and she's investing in all these interesting deals. And she's like, "Yeah. Well, you wanna allocate 10% of your portfolio to this, this, and this because I need a little bit of a high-risk stuff in order to off-balance my conservative stuff." And that sounds very logical, and academically that makes a ton of sense, but when 10% is $10 million and you're doing $2 million bets or whatever, that's a very nerve-wracking thing. But she was so good at dividing her emotion from, like, her logic side of her brain and trusting the process. I was incredibly inspired by this woman. You have to follow some of the stuff that this lady has to say. She's so interesting.

Shaan Puri 39:34 Also, she looks very cool. Got a cool haircut. She's like a walking brand.

Sam Parr 39:38 She will kick your ass is the vibe that I get from her. She's a very strong-looking, uh, woman.

Shaan Puri 39:44 Yeah, very cool. So crazy story, I didn't realize how big this wa-... I mean, it's crazy there's a, a fitness chain this big, this successful that I just never heard of. Um-

Sam Parr 39:53 Dude, it's even bigger now, by the way. Uh, I believe... Was it KKR? I think KKR bought it, and now there's rumors that they're gonna s- try to sell it now for $800 million. So her business, uh, I guess it's not hers anymore. She sold it. In 2024, they're projected to do 150 million in revenue and 50 million in profit. And Anne on the pod, she was like, "I have the most profitable fitness studio because we do, uh... We, we just kept it lean. Like, we just don't have too much excess stuff."

Shaan Puri 40:22 Well, it just seems like they must have figured something out on the marketing side that's, uh, they're just not spending a lot on marketing, right? Like-

Sam Parr 40:28 We should ha- We should have-

Shaan Puri 40:29 They'll be like... A- and of course, the annoying answer everyone, "Oh, yes, just got a lot of word of mouth." And it's like, goddammit. Word of mouth is, like, the worst answer to hear because you're like, "Great. Um, nothing I can do about that," right? Like, I have to go back to the drawing board and create a more viral concept. I have to create a, a more remarkable concept. I have to make my product so much better. It's like the, the last thing you wanna hear as a marketer is, "Yeah, it's just really organic." [laughs] It's like saying, "I, uh, I, I was genetically blessed." Uh, it, it... Unfortunately, that's how it feels, uh, to me at least on the other side whenever I hear that.

Sam Parr 41:01 Well, we don't on... With the Money Wise Podcast, we don't talk too much about, like, getting customers and all that stuff, but we should have her on here because I would... I, I did, like, off air I was like, "How did you do that?" And she goes, "I am world-class at branding a community. That's what I do. I know how to do that. I, I was built to do that." And so she didn't tell me all the tactics, but I believe that's how it grew, that stupid answer-

Shaan Puri 41:21 Right

Sam Parr 41:21 ... of word of mouth. But we should actually have her on and ask her all about this. She's super fascinating. And if you Google her name, she, um, she's very transparent about finances because she's like, "Young women aren't taught this, and so I'm just gonna, like, be transparent about this." So, like, she's under talked about. She's not talked about a lot.

Shaan Puri 41:36 I never heard, I never heard of her, never heard of Solidcore, so super g- so I'm glad you put her under my radar. This

Shaan Puri 41:40 is really cool. The question I have is it seems like your takeaway was, "I've never seen somebody have so much c-" What'd you say? Like, so much faith or what, what did you call it? Like, first you said growth mindset, then you said trust the process, but okay. The business made $95,000 the first month. The process was trusted. Uh, what do you have to trust? It's working right away. Like, to me, trust the process is it's not working, it's not working, it's not working, it's not working, and in month n- 29 it finally turns the corner. That's trust the process.

Sam Parr 42:08 But that's not how people truly feel in reality. So, like, with my... with The Hustle, when we were doing... when we crossed a million dollars a month, I still felt, like, fairly uncertain. If you talk to, uh... I mean, I talked to... You talk to a lot of people. I talk to a lot of people. Like, you could have a big business, and you're still like, "It's still teetering. I don't know if this is gonna work out." You know what I mean? You still have that feeling.

Shaan Puri 42:26 Yeah, but you, you still kept going. It's not like you abandoned ship, right? So I think it's pretty... Even if you have doubts, doubts to me, of course you're gonna have random doubts that creep in, or you're gonna have some uncertainty. Will it, you know, will this work? If it starts working, will this last? Those are natural questions. I, I guess, like, uh- I think a lot of what she did is awesome. And in, in fact, the first thing you said about having a growth mindset to me made a lot of sense, as in she just had a, had the confidence and faith in herself to go do something completely different, put her entire life savings into it, and trusted in herself that she would make this work. I think maybe that's more what you mean.

Sam Parr 43:03 No, I mean that and, like, when I was asking her about new initiatives and things that she would get into, like, she was like, "Well, I wanted to learn a little bit about stock investing, and, like, so I started s- I studied all the earnings per share, and I learned what all that meant, and, like, I bought Nvidia a while ago, and it worked out." And so I guess what I mean is she was quite good at acquiring information and then trusting that that information was good and trusting that the way she learned was good and trusting that the process that she learned about would give the outcome that hopefully she wanted.

Shaan Puri 43:34 Okay, that makes more sense to me. Okay. Yeah, I like that. In fact, I had a kinda similar idea. So I'm writing this essay-

Sam Parr 43:41 By the way, you, you had this in one of your emails. Your, uh, uh, what's it called? Tuesday Tu-

Shaan Puri 43:46 Hump Day Tuesday?

Sam Parr 43:47 Yeah. Where that guy Hoffman, his last name was Hoffman, um, where he said something like, "No good business is a good business" or what did he say?

Shaan Puri 43:55 Aron Hoffman. Yeah, he basically was like... I forgot the exact wording of the tweet, but it was, every business looks like a shit show on the inside, the successful ones and the unsuccessful ones, right? When you-

Sam Parr 44:05 I think he said there's no such thing as a good business on the

Sam Parr 44:07 inside.

Shaan Puri 44:07 Yeah, every business looks incredibly messy and, like, upside down on the inside. And I found that that's true, at least in my experience. Like, I've never been a part of a company where I'm like, "Wow, it feels buttoned up. It feels figured out. It feels like this is just firing on all cylinders. This is just a well-oiled machine." Um-

Sam Parr 44:26 You didn't feel that way with Twitch?

Shaan Puri 44:27 [laughs] Dude, no. Twitch was... Twitch, honestly, uh, this is gonna sound a little bit bad, but you know, when, when Twitter started getting big and Zuck came out and it, it was a little bit of jealousy or haterade, but he was like, "They drove a clown car into a gold mine" That was Twitch. Um-

Sam Parr 44:46 Wait, Zuck said that?

Shaan Puri 44:48 Yeah. You never heard this?

Sam Parr 44:49 No, that's awesome. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 44:50 It's one of the, the, one of the first non-politically correct things he ever said, which is, like, just the honest thing, which is these guys are driving... They, they drove a clown car into a gold mine. And Twitch very much was the same way, which was Twitch could get 100 things wrong internally, but it didn't matter because they had a network effect, they had a moat, and they had... Basically, once you build a marketplace, once you get a marketplace to work, you can now screw up so many things, and they just got more popular as gaming grew. So it was like, I would see just bullshit going on internally, just wasted, wasted efforts here, wasted efforts here, bad strategy here, and then COVID happens and everybody's at home playing video games online. Boom. Business takes off. And you see, you know, we're trying this thing to, to create growth, trying, trying this to create growth. Nothing is even working. Nobody has any fucking clue how to grow this thing. Fortnite becomes the biggest game in the world, played by everybody, and w- Twitch grows like crazy on top of Fortnite because what Emmett and the team had done early on they got right. And even then probably, I'm sure f- I, I wasn't there, but I'm sure many things felt broken or unfigured out at that time. But they got the core thing right, which was they created the biggest marketplace of supply and demand of content creators for video gaming content and consumers, and that gave them the, the, the privilege, the right to be wrong so m- They got to fire so many shots on goal after that that didn't even have to work out, didn't have to be well executed. Because the more popular gaming got, the more people were online stream, you know, online, uh, being content creators, the bigger Twitch got. And, and so they were just... Then the analogy we used internally was, we don't create the waves, right? When e- every time d- somebody did the growth analysis, it's like all the things that caused growth were n- outs- were exogenous factors. It was not some feature we created that drove growth necessarily. It was the popularity of a specific game, or it was a new device gets released and now the new PlayStation drives, you know, a big boost in whatever, or the new gaming PCs, or the chips get better, which make it easier to stream while you're playing 'cause the graphics cards can now handle both. And so there was always these exogenous things. And the analogy we used internally was we're, we are the surfer. We are out there paddling, waiting for waves, and when the wave comes, it's our job to be ready to surf it and not wipe out. But let's be clear, we don't create the waves. And, uh, internally, we all wanted to create the wave 'cause you want growth to be a button you can push, but in that business, that's just not how it worked. And by the way, a Twitch diehard person would totally disagree. I'm sure they would be, you know, shaking their fists saying, "No, no, no. We've, we were great internally and, you know, we improved the conversion rate and the discovery rate and the retention rates, and that h- that all causes growth." So there is, like, a counterargument to it, but I think on the whole, I know what I saw, and I, I know, I know what was going on inside of there. It's not like... I th- By the way, that's what I thought I would find. I thought I would go from me- my messy startup where I'm an idiot and I created a huge mess over here and I got 20 people and I don't know how to do anything. Oh, I'm gonna go to this company that got bought by Amazon. It's a multi-billion dollar company with seasoned executives. Now I'll go learn how a business is supposed to look on the inside. And instead I was like, "Man, this is not, not it."

Sam Parr 47:51 We're on a tangent. What were, originally were you gonna say? Do you remember?

Shaan Puri 47:55 Oh, I'm writing this essay called "Who's Your Elon?" A- and I, I wrote this because I have this philosophy that you are what you admire. So pick and choose what you admire because you will, your body will start to gravitate towards that. And I think as founders, the default, the factory setting that you get wired with when you decide, "I'm gonna be a founder," is, cool, then you should wanna be Elon Musk or Steve Jobs, right? Those are the... That's the North Star. Would you agree? For most people, like, it's just the default factory setting for, for entrepreneurs.

Sam Parr 48:23 Yeah. And before Elon, it was Zuck.

Shaan Puri 48:26 And before Zuck, it was Steve Jobs, and before Steve Jobs it was, or, or Bill Gates or whatever, right?

Sam Parr 48:29 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 48:29 That's kinda like the, the, the transition here. And so Elon today, he's the GOAT, and it makes sense. He's built badass companies that change the world, Tesla, SpaceX, PayPal, OpenAI, even actually he helped create Start. Uh, he's the richest entrepreneur in the world. He's the most famous entrepreneur in the world. He seems like a badass 'cause he goes after these hard problems in these big markets. Uh, and he's just doing cool shit, electric cars, launching rockets that will land themselves on a, on a tiny boat in the middle of the ocean. Like, he's incredible.

Sam Parr 48:56 ... convincing dozens of women to have his children

Shaan Puri 48:58 [laughs] And then convincing the rest of the public that it was cool, that he was just-

Sam Parr 49:02 Yeah

Shaan Puri 49:02 ... doing his part to save civilization-

Sam Parr 49:04 Yeah [laughs]

Shaan Puri 49:04 ... instead of, like, just impregnating everybody around him.

Sam Parr 49:07 [laughs] Yeah.

Shaan Puri 49:07 Um, [laughs] so, so he's incredible. But also, I don't wanna be him, right? 'Cause, like, his family life is a mess, he seems super stressed, and, like, his schedule is not the schedule I would want. Like, if you want those trade-offs, great, more power to you. It's not the trade-offs I would choose. And so I think it is important to figure out-

Sam Parr 49:22 Did you see when he tweeted out where Zuck was, uh, doing, like, the surfing thing on 4th of July, and- [laughs]

Shaan Puri 49:27 Yeah

Sam Parr 49:27 ... Elon was like, "That's cute. I'm busy working." [laughs]

Shaan Puri 49:31 Yeah, I pref- that, that's... He could have his parties on his yachts. I prefer to work.

Sam Parr 49:35 Oh, my God.

Shaan Puri 49:36 That was the lamest shit I ever heard.

Sam Parr 49:37 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 49:37 Also, somebody replied with a great tweet, a great, uh, thing. They, they posted the analytics of how much, how many tweets and likes he had done that month, and it's like, "I prefer to work." And he's like tweeted and liked, like, a thousand times that month. [laughs] It's like, bro, you're not working.

Sam Parr 49:52 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 49:52 Um, anyways, I, I think that, uh, Elon is great in many ways. If he's your, if he's your North Star, more power to you. Uh, but if he's not, it's important to pick who is your North Star. And I guess, uh, you were talking about this woman, Anne, and how we kind of admire that she was able to just, like, fearlessly go in and learn new things, have the confidence, learn just enough to be dangerous, but also move on and, like, s- have multiple chapters in her life. I realized that that was, that was my answer is somebody who's more of a polymath, somebody who has... They walked into Disneyland and they said, "I wanna ride all the rides." They don't spend all their time just, like, perfecting one ride. They're like, "I only have a certain amount of time on this earth. I wanna, I wanna go ride all the

Shaan Puri 50:34 rides." And-

Sam Parr 50:34 Who are examples for you?

Shaan Puri 50:36 So, like, the historical example is, like, Ben Franklin. So Ben Franklin, like, you know, has his s- he had his scientist era. He invents, like, he invented the bifocals, he [laughs] the Franklin stove, and then he created the best newsletter of its time, right? He inv- he invented a, a newspaper, the, the Pennsylvanian Gazette. And then he was a founding father, and he was in politics, and he helped write the Constitution. And then he-

Sam Parr 50:56 Also convinced many women to have his babies.

Shaan Puri 50:59 [laughs] Of course. That's a prerequisite. Um, he then was the CEO of the US postal system for a period of time, and then in music he invented, like, a musical instrument. He in- he had, like, he in- he influenced many people. Mozart, Beethoven said that Ben Franklin influenced them. And so-

Sam Parr 51:16 No way. Really?

Shaan Puri 51:16 ... like, what a guy, right? Like, what a, what a fucking legend. And so I hear that, and I'm like, dude, that sounds, that sounds epic. Like, if I could think of what, what does the top of the top look like, that's really cool. And, uh, there's ano- okay, modern-day examples. We had Jesse Itzler on the podcast, and when Jesse's episode, you can go watch it. It's, uh, I don't know what episode number, but go, just go on YouTube and just write Jesse Itzler My First Million. This is a guy who was like, "I'm gonna be a rapper." He's a white Jewish rapper, and then he becomes a corporate jingle writer, then he's an entrepreneur, creates a coconut water brand and a private jet brand. Then he's like, "Fuck it, I'm gonna get really into health and fitness and running," and, and becomes an endurance athlete. He lives in a monastery with monks. He has David Goggins come live in his house. He wrote books. He married Sarah Blakely. He's got four or five kids, seems like a good dad. When I called him to prep for the pod, he was, like, ra- you know, wrangling, herding sheep trying to get to the soccer game or soccer practice that day. And, uh, you know, I just find that really interesting. People have had these multiple different arcs and careers in different zones and genres. Um, there's a guy, Neil Senturia, who I really admire. He's in San Diego.

Sam Parr 52:20 How do you, how do you spell his name?

Shaan Puri 52:22 Uh, Neil and then Senturia is S-E-N-T-U-R-I-A. And he's got a great book that is not popular, but I met him and he gave me a copy of his book. It's called I'm There for You, Baby. And, um, you know, Neil's story is, like, he was a Hollywood scriptwriter. Then to try to make a buck he's like, "Dude, San Diego's booming," and he got into the real estate development game and built, helped, like, kinda fund and build a skyscraper in downtown San Diego. And then he met a kid in an elevator who had a good startup idea, and he invested in it, and it became Chegg. And then he started a dozen companies and some of them s- worked, some of them didn't. Some are in biotech, some are in consumer. Like, he started a whole bunch of different things. And he's into art. He's a, you know, he's got multiple chapters, and when I met him, we went to his house and he's like, "Oh yeah, I'm writing this book now about this woman who created the biggest Ponzi scheme, and I think this should become a movie." And he's like, this guy's in his, like, 70s and he's just, he's still going. He's still got ideas and energy, energy and a zest for life, and he's, like, doesn't count himself out of any pursuit. And I think I like that. I- I think I like people who don't count themselves out, who don't feel like I can't do it because I haven't done it. And that limiting belief is just one I don't want in my life.

Sam Parr 53:24 If you Google this guy, there's not a lot of news or information out of him, but there is a San Diego, uh, Tribune article and its title is Why Having Fun Is Good for the Soul.

Shaan Puri 53:34 Yeah.

Sam Parr 53:34 It's about him.

Shaan Puri 53:34 I'm down with that. [laughs]

Sam Parr 53:35 I'm down with that. I'm very down with that. Are you, have you seen the, uh, Ben Franklin TV show on Apple?

Shaan Puri 53:42 You know, I watched the trailer of it, and then I just didn't feel it hooked. Is it good? I, should I watch it?

Sam Parr 53:48 If you're a history nerd, it's awesome. And-

Shaan Puri 53:50 Oh, okay

Sam Parr 53:50 ... but he just fucking partied. He was like-

Shaan Puri 53:53 [laughs]

Sam Parr 53:54 [laughs] Like, they were trying to convince the French to, like, join the American Revolution. And do you know that scene in The Office where Michael Scott and Jan go to this dinner at, like, an Apple Tuesday con- to convince that man to do their business, and Jan wants to get down to business, and Michael's like-

Shaan Puri 54:10 And Michael talks for, like, two hours, right? [laughs]

Sam Parr 54:12 Yeah. He's like, "Hey, you guys wanna get some baby back ribs?" And he starts singing the Baby Back Ribs song. [laughs] And they all get drunk and he's party. And then at the end he does the deal, and Michael's like, "I fucking told you, Jan. This is how it works."

Shaan Puri 54:22 Right. [laughs]

Sam Parr 54:23 That's, that's what Ben Franklin did. He basically went over there with James Madison, and, and James is all buttoned up and they're like, "Let's do our thing." And he's like, "No, dude, we're gonna party. Let's go to the parties." And they get wasted, and, like, there's scenes where, like, him and other diplomats are, like, pissing together on a, a, when they're, like, drunk at a party.

Shaan Puri 54:38 [laughs]

Sam Parr 54:38 And, like, while they're peeing he's like, "Hey, so the American Revolution, you know, we could use your help." Like, it's things like that. Like, you see that-

Shaan Puri 54:45 Right

Sam Parr 54:45 ... he was, like, a pretty smooth dude. And it's pretty awesome. Um, it's a great show. Um, and all, I thought his biography by Walter Isaacson, I f- I thought it fucking sucked. I'm one of the few people that thought it was suck, it sucked, but his autobiography's pretty good. But yeah, Ben Franklin's all right.

Shaan Puri 55:00 He's the man. Um- Okay, what else we got?

Sam Parr 55:04 Uh, I'll do one more quick thing.

Shaan Puri 55:06 Yeah.

Sam Parr 55:06 This is just a quick funny thing. Eh, I don't even wanna say it's

Sam Parr 55:10 funny. Interesting. So Rejuvenation Olympics, do you remember when we talked about that?

Shaan Puri 55:14 Is that the, uh, steroids allowed Olympics? Is that wh- is that what it is?

Sam Parr 55:17 No. That's the Enhanced Games, which is also-

Shaan Puri 55:19 Oh, sorry. Got 'em mixed up

Sam Parr 55:20 ... a good, which is also-

Shaan Puri 55:21 Oh, were you the ... [laughs]

Sam Parr 55:22 Also a freak show

Shaan Puri 55:22 ... this is the, uh, reverse a- this is the reverse aging Bryan Johnson thing?

Sam Parr 55:25 Yeah, so-

Shaan Puri 55:26 The leaderboard

Sam Parr 55:26 ... we originally found Bryan... That, I take pride in that. I've said that many times. We kinda got, we were on a couple people early. Bryan's one of 'em.

Shaan Puri 55:33 Dude, you keep saying it, and it actually destroys the value that we had in finding him early 'cause it's kinda like Jason Calacanis, the third investor in Uber. It's like it would've been cool if you're like, "You know, Jason was a..." If somebody else says, "You know, Jason was actually the third investor in Uber," but when Jason says, "You know, I was the third investor in Uber," a thousand times-

Sam Parr 55:50 Mm-hmm

Shaan Puri 55:50 ... it's like, dude, we get it. It's too, you're, now you're overcompensating. I think that's what's happening here with, uh, we discovered Bryan Johnson. [laughs]

Sam Parr 55:56 Look, I don't have that many discoveries. So I feel good about this particular one. Uh, but Bryan Johnson, we talked about him a, a bunch of times. We had him on the podcast. You went to his house. Uh, really interesting guy. Originally, when we talked to him, we brought up the Rejuvenation Olympics, and we talked about it, and this website was super janky. But now, if you go to re-

Shaan Puri 56:15 Is it cool now?

Sam Parr 56:15 It, it's much better. It still honestly sucks. I just DM'd him, and I'm like, "Dude, your website, like, I don't know how to use it, but it's a lot better than before." Rejuvenation Olympics is this leaderboard where, uh, before he didn't have a partnership, but he would say, like, "Go and buy this, like, $800 blood work and upload your results here, and do it... If you do it three times, we take the average, and we're gonna create this thing called the Rejuvenation Olympics," where they use this one blood work to decide how slow you're aging. And so the people who are aging the slowest based off this Tru- I think it's TruDiagnostics, uh, based off of their test, uh, they have this thing called, like, a Dune pace score, and it, like, measures-

Shaan Puri 56:54 Well, let's just explain the simple thing. Normally, you would expect in one year of chronological time, you would age one year of biological time. So the idea with the Ju- Rejuvenation Olympics is in one year of chronological time, so one calendar year, do you, can you age less than one year? Can your body age less than one year of kinda, like, cell damage, basically?

Sam Parr 57:15 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 57:15 And the top guy here, his average pace is .56. So every year, he's only aging half a year.

Sam Parr 57:23 Yeah. And, and so it's, like, an interesting thing, and it's [laughs] actually a super interesting business for a few, a few reasons. One, he actually has a partnership with TruDiagnostics, but in order to do the, to be verified on rejuvenationolympics.com, you have to take the average of three tests. Each test is very expensive. And then in order to stay on the leaderboard, you have to, like, continue doing averages. So you have to, like, do this fricking test every quarter. So actually, the expenses, uh, add up. But-

Shaan Puri 57:50 Well, TruDiagnostics, $500. Living forever, priceless. [laughs]

Sam Parr 57:55 Well, it definitely has a price if you look at some of these guys because-

Shaan Puri 57:58 [laughs]

Sam Parr 57:58 ... if you look at, like, the, you... What I, I got curious, and I went through the list of the people who are top on the Rejuvenation Olympics, and most of them are, like, like, you'll see, like, what's that dude's name? Peter Diamandis or whatever.

Shaan Puri 58:11 Yeah.

Sam Parr 58:11 Remember?

Shaan Puri 58:12 Yeah.

Sam Parr 58:12 Like, some rich guy. Bryan Johnson is near the top, rich guy. It's all, like, these, like, healthy people or, like, healthy rich people or, who are spending a lot of money, or it's, like, a biohacker. So, like, someone whose, like, job is to do this stuff, and they, like, blog about it, and they make money doing it.

Shaan Puri 58:27 Well, dude, I'm just gonna say this right now. Bryan, I love you, but I will not use this website until you link their names to an Instagram. This website is useless to me unless Craig McCall, I need to be able to click and go see who this guy is. I can't use this site until that happens.

Sam Parr 58:42 We are-

Shaan Puri 58:42 That is the only feature I need.

Sam Parr 58:44 We are on the same page, my friend, because if you look at the Instagram of the link, so there's a woman named Julia Gibson Clark.

Shaan Puri 58:51 Yeah, I see her.

Sam Parr 58:51 So ro- roughly 8,000 people have, like, done this test and, uh, and she, at the time when I was doing research, if you go to view all rankings, let's see. Is she still up top? At the-

Shaan Puri 59:00 She's, like, in the top eight.

Sam Parr 59:01 Yeah. Okay. So she's-

Shaan Puri 59:02 She was number two.

Sam Parr 59:04 I did research on this woman. She's just a lady. She's just a lady who's, like, fit, and someone else picked up on this, and they're like, "Who's this Julie Gibson Clark woman?" And they did [laughs] this article about her, and she's like, "I make 100 grand a year. Like, I exercise five days a week, but, like, and I just eat vegetables, but, like, I'll just go for a walk sometimes, or I'll run. Like, I just live, like, a decently healthy lifestyle." And she's, like, number six or number seven on this list. And I thought it was awesome that this 57-year-old woman, who's not a very wealthy person, who isn't, like, a professional at doing all this shit, she's just living, like, a pretty well-balanced, it seems, life. She's number seven, and she's kicking ass. And if you click on some of the photos, very attractive woman. Like, she looks like a very healthy woman.

Shaan Puri 59:45 [laughs]

Sam Parr 59:45 Doesn't look like she's got any, like, plastic surgery. She makes 100 grand a year. She, uh, eats, uh, vegetables for snacks. So, like, instead of eating, like, potato chips, she'll just eat carrot sticks, and she takes just a couple vitamins in the morning, and that's basically it. And she act- and she lifts weights twice a weeks, twice a week, and she goes for runs twice a week, and then the other days she's just walking a lot.

Shaan Puri 1:00:07 Right.

Sam Parr 1:00:07 And she's killing it.

Shaan Puri 1:00:09 By the way, I have to apologize to everybody. I did an interview with Bryan Johnson probably, like, a year ago now. I don't know how long it's been. It's been, like, six months. Been, like, a year. I went to his house. I did a three-hour interview with him. We had professional cameramen. It was great, and I was so excited about it. We came back. I started editing all... I did a bunch of interviews in LA, and I started editing one by one, and, uh, you know, I edited five of them. We released them, and the Bryan Johnson one was kinda, like, my finale, and I was so excited about it, but I was also like, it's a kinda, like, higher stakes. And, um, higher stake almost because I thought it could be great, but it would require more time and patience in the edit, partly because of the way we filmed it with multiple cameras and whatnot. And I put it off. [laughs] I got busy, and I started doing other things, and then I just didn't do it, and I didn't release the episode. And so this, ear- earlier this week, I asked Diego. I said, "Diego, um, it is now out of my hands." I said, "I'm giving you this episode. You are gonna edit this, and we're gonna release this even though it's been a year." Um- Better late than never. And I said-

Sam Parr 1:01:10 It doesn't matter if it's a year away. I mean-

Shaan Puri 1:01:11 ... I, I have been the blocker of this, 'cause I, I, initially I was a perfectionist about it, which is weird, 'cause I'm never a perfectionist. I just really wanted it to be good. And then later I was like, "Well, now it's been seven months. This is... Some of the stunning things he's talking about don't even make sense anymore." Um, but I... But whatever. I'm gonna... I, I told him, I said, "You, you don't have to ask me about it, just edit and make it good, and then we're gonna release it." So I will, I will right my wrong, and, uh, better late than never here.

Sam Parr 1:01:37 Dude, no one would e- like, no one cares or would know that it's a year old, right?

Shaan Puri 1:01:43 Well, there's some things he says that maybe he's like, "Oh, we're gonna launch this," and it's like it's actually been launched now or whatever, like, you know, a year later. Uh, you know, he's reversed aged. He looks younger now, so, you know-

Sam Parr 1:01:54 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:01:54 ... it might throw people off.

Sam Parr 1:01:55 [laughs] Ah. Would you wanna look like him?

Shaan Puri 1:02:03 Um, would I wanna look like him? Yeah, I'd want to lo-

Sam Parr 1:02:04 I mean, he's just shredded

Shaan Puri 1:02:05 ... like, when you say, like, exactly like him? Like I don't look like me anymore?

Sam Parr 1:02:08 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:02:09 Or just like my body?

Sam Parr 1:02:10 Your body.

Shaan Puri 1:02:11 Oh, hell yeah.

Sam Parr 1:02:12 He-

Shaan Puri 1:02:12 Dude, all he needs is a tan

Sam Parr 1:02:14 ... he looks so shredded that it's crazy.

Shaan Puri 1:02:16 He's got an insane body. He just needs a tan.

Sam Parr 1:02:18 He's, he-

Shaan Puri 1:02:18 But actually, it's smart that he doesn't do the tan, 'cause, like, what I've realized is that Bryan Johnson is a marketing genius, and, um-

Sam Parr 1:02:27 Oh, no shit

Shaan Puri 1:02:28 ... whoever he's hired to run his Twitter account, which I don't think it's him, 'cause his personality is... He's a really nice guy, but he's not, like, super... He's not, like, super meme-y, but his Twitter game is now, like, really good, and smart, and, like, memes well. I think he hired a meme dealer and he's got somebody doing his Twitter, uh, 'cause he's... it's very smart what he's doing. Um-

Sam Parr 1:02:48 No, he seems like a guy who could, like, study it and, like, implement.

Shaan Puri 1:02:52 And by the way, I'll put one thing in the ground. I might be fooled by this, who knows, but, uh, there's a lot of people who are like, "Oh, he's just doing this to make money." No, no, no. He made a lot of money. He... I believe he did this because it gave his life purpose after he'd already made a bunch of money.

Sam Parr 1:03:04 Sure. I agree.

Shaan Puri 1:03:04 And it gave him a purpose, a higher mission, a, a more, uh, ambitious thing to do, and he got really into it. Um, and I think he's 100% genuine. And even if he releases products that are associated with it, I think it's only to help this cause. Like, and I'm normally very skeptical, like, when most people do things and they say they're mission-driven. I'm like, "Ooh, is mission code for money-driven? Like, what, what are you talking about here?" Um, in this case, I actually think Bryan Johnson's one of the few truly mission-driven people in this. And I think a lot of people, the more popular he gets, more people will wanna tear him down. Um, and I'm just gonna put out my position, which is, um, I believe that he is super genuine about everything that he's doing. I... Meaning, I s- I believe he's genuine in his intent, and I believe his, um... He is actually mission-driven when he's doing this. That's my-

Sam Parr 1:03:48 Does anyone doubt that?

Shaan Puri 1:03:50 Oh, there's a lot of people who are like, you know, like... You know, he, he named his olive oil, like, Snake Oil, because so many people were, like, calling him a snake oil salesman because they're like, "Oh, you're just trying to sell us supplements and pills and, um, and blah, blah, blah." You know, the one thing I think that might happen is I don't think he... I think he might be more experimental in everything that he's doing and not publish everything. Um, I don't have any reason to say that, I just... I wouldn't be surprised if that was true, 'cause I think he's truly gonna l- be on the cutting edge, and also there's some responsibility in what you put out there to others, and maybe he waits until something is proven to be effective or safe before he tells people he's been experimenting with it. I think that might be true.

Sam Parr 1:04:31 I just think that you have to be really rich to tweet out how many boners you're getting in the middle of the night. And, like, he does this whole experiment where he's trying to ex- uh, improve how much erections he gets in the middle of the night. And he, like-

Shaan Puri 1:04:42 It's the only wearable worth wearing.

Sam Parr 1:04:43 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:44 Have you seen the wearable? It's like a ring.

Sam Parr 1:04:46 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:46 It's like a little, like, uh, a little Fitbit.

Sam Parr 1:04:48 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:50 That's how they measure it. 'Cause, 'cause that was my question. When he started putting in the data, I was like, "Is there someone watching? How do you know?"

Sam Parr 1:04:55 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:55 "Where... Well, how are you measuring this?"

Sam Parr 1:04:56 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:56 And then he showed the device.

Sam Parr 1:04:57 It's like, it's like a little rubber band around a stack of dimes. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:05:00 Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Be like, uh, "That's cool, but why is it so big? I don't think I'm gonna need all that."

Sam Parr 1:05:06 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:05:07 [laughs] Is there one that fits on a baby carrot?

Sam Parr 1:05:09 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Is this for... [laughs] Is this a bracelet? [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:05:12 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:05:13 Who goes and put this... [laughs] How does it, how does it work when you measure it on my wrist? [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:05:17 Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:05:19 [laughs] Well, if you made it this far, you got one of our, uh, rare dick jokes. Um-

Shaan Puri 1:05:25 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:05:25 All right. Is that it? That's the pod?

Shaan Puri 1:05:27 That's it.

Sam Parr 1:05:28 All right.

Shaan Puri 1:05:28 All right.

Sam Parr 1:05:28 [laughs] [outro music]