Nikhil KamathA.R. Rahman: The Genius Who Took Indian Music Global | Nikhil Kamath | People by WTF | Ep 15
CHAPTERS
- 0:23 – 3:37
South Indian roots, Bangalore–Chennai connection, and early rapport
The conversation opens with light banter and shared South Indian context—Bangalore, Chennai, language, and cultural familiarity. Rahman briefly touches on his past association with the Kannada industry and how it has evolved.
- •Nikhil and Rahman connect over South Indian identity and languages
- •Rahman recalls working with the Kannada industry in the 1980s
- •Observation on Kannada cinema’s resurgence after a dormant period
- •Sets the tone: Rahman’s understated, humorous demeanor
- 3:37 – 8:20
Childhood trauma: losing his father, growing up inside studios
Rahman explains how his introversion and later articulation were shaped by early trauma—his father’s death and other losses. He describes a childhood spent around older studio musicians, missing typical school and social life.
- •Father passed away when Rahman was nine; lingering trauma and silence around it
- •Mother’s role as protector amid humiliation and instability
- •Early immersion in recording studios with senior musicians
- •Leaving school around 15–16 and missing peer-based social learning
- 8:20 – 8:59
His mother’s resilience: survival economics and a decisive push into music
Rahman credits his mother’s strength and entrepreneurial instincts for keeping the family afloat and preserving his father’s musical legacy. Her gear-rental business and eventual decision to push Rahman into full-time work become pivotal.
- •Mother refuses to sell equipment; keeps it for her son’s future
- •Equipment rental becomes family income for 6–7 years
- •As rentals decline, she urges him to start playing professionally
- •Rahman frames her as the key decision-maker behind his music path
- 8:59 – 10:41
Apprenticeship years: playing for top composers, learning arranging and speed
Rahman describes nearly a decade of intense work as a keyboard player for leading composers across industries. Over time he gains freedom to arrange, build cues quickly, and develop the toolkit that later defines his sound.
- •Worked with Ilaiyaraaja, MSV, T. Rajender, and others across languages
- •Daily grind: multiple sessions, long hours, note-based execution
- •Transition from being given notes to being trusted with arrangements
- •Early adoption of computers (mid-80s) and rapid cue-building skills
- 10:41 – 11:34
Jingles and ‘scratch’ culture: owning the full creative output
Rahman explains how ad jingles became the first space where everything was ‘his’—composition through production. He also breaks down the idea of ‘scratches’ and how agencies moved from placeholders to using his final work.
- •Shift from session musician to end-to-end jingle composer
- •International agencies and the workflow of ‘scratch’ demos
- •Scratches evolve into final deliverables as confidence in his work grows
- •Jingles as a training ground for concise, high-impact composition
- 11:34 – 14:06
Panchathan Studio and Mani Ratnam: the road to Roja and overnight change
Building a home studio becomes Rahman’s empowerment moment—privacy, experimentation, and faster iteration without judgment. Mani Ratnam’s listening session in that studio becomes the seed for Roja, triggering a career-defining breakthrough.
- •Home studio concept was rare; allowed fearless experimentation
- •Tech curiosity and being the ‘gizmo guy’ in a traditional ecosystem
- •Mani Ratnam hears Rahman’s experiments; session becomes Roja’s DNA
- •Roja’s release brings immediate status shift and industry demand
- 14:06 – 23:41
Resisting industry consumption: doing less, escaping to grow, and staying a learner
Rahman describes a recurring urge to ‘leave it all’—a reaction to seeing how the industry consumed his father. He explains why he limited film volume, sought new learning in London/Hollywood, and treated evolution as survival.
- •Fear of being consumed by the film machine; ‘thankless’ nature of industries
- •Deliberately doing fewer films than peers to protect artistic growth
- •London stint (e.g., Bombay Dreams) as reinvention and resistance
- •Continuous learning: new tools, synthesis, orchestration, poetry
- 23:41 – 26:40
Redefining 90s Indian film music: production, global ambition, and patience
Rahman argues the ‘trend change’ happened because of Roja—his sound and production sensibilities expanded what Indian film music could be. He emphasizes global benchmarks and why he needed time to refine songs beyond formula-making.
- •Blend of jazz/rock/qawwali/Carnatic/Hindustani vs single-template scoring
- •Focus on production, vibe, recording—so Indian songs can travel globally
- •Intentional pacing: fewer projects to develop songs ‘inch by inch’
- •Belief that artists must first please themselves; audience may catch up later
- 26:40 – 31:09
Classical music, gurus, and making tradition immersive (not preachy)
Rahman reframes classical training as spirit-transfer from guru to student, not just raga knowledge. He argues classical and complex music can succeed if delivered with mastery, immersion, and compelling narrative.
- •Guru-shishya tradition as ‘heart-to-heart’ and spiritual transmission
- •Classical performance must evolve to be more immersive and experiential
- •Projects: Jaala band and Bharat Maestro Award to surface new maestros
- •Complexity can work (multi-raga example) when presented masterfully
- 31:09 – 36:01
AI and creativity: beating predictive models by being contrarian
Rahman sees AI as empowering for people with vision but without technical chops—while also forcing artists to innovate beyond pattern-recognition. He explains why contrarian construction and surprise are central to music’s future.
- •AI as an option-generator; prompts + vision become creative leverage
- •Artists respond by making structures AI can’t easily predict or copy
- •Music as conversation: surprise via rhythm/key/raga shifts
- •Trend detection vs inner taste: ‘I am the people’ (trust your own response)
- 36:01 – 40:55
Talent vs practice: singing, training methods, and evolving at any age
Rahman pushes a practice-first philosophy, while acknowledging talent as differences in how minds grasp patterns. He shares personal singing struggles, teacher advice, and how stage demands reshaped his discipline.
- •Core prescription: practice now, consistently, in small daily blocks
- •Talent exists but does not cap potential; progress is still accessible
- •His singing journey: composing vs performing requires different precision
- •Specific technique: strengthen lower notes to stabilize pitch and range
- 40:55 – 43:17
Purpose-driven global work: UN ambassador role and building KM Conservatory
Rahman recounts becoming a UN Stop TB ambassador and how that exposure sparked a larger institutional vision. He details the messy, conflict-filled reality of building a school and its eventual growth into KM Music Conservatory.
- •UN role (Stop TB) and meeting global leaders catalyze a ‘foundation’ mindset
- •Concern about vanishing instrumentalists (strings/brass) prompts a school
- •Early debate: free school vs paid model; operational conflicts and evolution
- •KM Conservatory launch and growth; parallel rise during late-2000s accolades
- 43:17 – 47:13
Fame, privacy, and the human cost of recognition
Rahman describes fame as something he’s ‘prepared for’ but not comfortable with—especially in transit or while eating. He contrasts Indian celebrity culture with firmer boundaries abroad and explains how it affects family life.
- •Rarely steps out; values private studio life
- •Worst moments: airports/transit and being approached while exhausted
- •Family impact: inability to eat in public functions without interruptions
- •Cultural contrast: Indian stars as more accommodating than Western counterparts
- 47:13 – 56:17
Creative curiosity through tech and DMs: friendships, AI leaders, and ethics
Rahman discusses unconventional ‘friendships’ via work, younger teams, and social media outreach, including surprising DMs. He also explains his first ethical message to AI builders: don’t destroy livelihoods—set rules like other powerful tools.
- •Maintains few traditional friendships; bonds through collaborative teams
- •DM culture: reaching out to creators; Spike Lee messaging him unexpectedly
- •Meetings with AI leaders; Sacred Mountain positioned as hybrid human+AI pipeline
- •AI ethics: job displacement as harm; need for parameters, responsibility, and safeguards
- 56:17 – 59:38
VR, Meta Glasses, and ‘Le Masque’: reinventing immersion without nausea
Rahman shares his long-term interest in VR and why he directed a VR film despite the difficulty of the format. He argues VR requires ‘unlearning’ cinema grammar and describes how Le Masque expands into dome projection experiences.
- •VR fascination since 2015; directed a VR film in 2016
- •Why film techniques often fail in VR (motion sickness, camera language)
- •VR as an alternate medium, not a cinema replacement; deeply personal viewing
- •Le Masque evolving into dome projection formats and touring locations
- 59:38 – 1:14:23
Secret Mountain (Sacred Mountain): a multicultural virtual band built to last
Rahman lays out the ambition behind Secret/Sacred Mountain: a global-facing band from India that is multicultural by design. He clarifies it’s not AI-composed music—humans create and perform—while virtual characters enable continuity, scale, and new business models.
- •Motivation: build an international ‘voice from India’ beyond language constraints
- •Virtual characters as persistent ‘IP’ (like James Bond); real musicians/voices behind them
- •Diversity as the differentiator: multiple cultures, mentors, and narratives
- •Scalable performance model (simultaneous shows) + future expansions (series/films)
- 1:14:23 – 1:30:07
Headspace, faith, and altruism: serving through institutions and Sufism
Rahman explains how his foundation and school keep him motivated, especially seeing marginalized kids excel globally. He connects altruism to spiritual practice, describes Sufism as ego-death (‘dying before dying’), and rejects violence done in religion’s name.
- •Pride in students breaking stigma and performing internationally
- •Service as a core spiritual principle; sincerity over status
- •Sufism: removing greed/jealousy/judgment to become ‘transparent’ to the divine
- •Critique of religious violence; music as a ‘shrine’ of shared oneness
- 1:30:07 – 1:37:05
‘Tu Hi Re’ and the magic of process: dreams, casting singers, and Mani Ratnam’s edit
Rahman narrates the origin story of ‘Tu Hi Re’—a melody arriving in a half-asleep state and captured on a cassette recorder. He describes the singer-selection moment (including the unusual fit of Hariharan) and how Mani Ratnam’s visuals amplified the song’s impact.
- •Tune emerges in a dreamlike state; recorded quickly on a mini cassette
- •Mani Ratnam wanted a love song; the ‘slow’ tune becomes the answer
- •Singer choice shaped by prayer/selection; Hariharan as an unexpected voice
- •Film edit inspires further scoring additions, strengthening the final emotion
- 1:37:05 – 1:44:01
Future of cinema and live entertainment: spheres, haptics, and musical theatre in India
Rahman argues theatres won’t die but must be reinvented beyond the century-old rectangle screen. He champions immersive venues (Sphere-like), multi-sensory formats, and a larger Indian ecosystem for orchestras and musical theatre as durable, exportable culture.
- •Theatre survives by offering experiences impossible at home or on phones
- •Immersion tech: dome/sphere visuals, haptics, scent, ambisonic sound
- •India’s gap: lack of symphony halls and large-scale musical theatre infrastructure
- •Musical theatre as scalable cultural export (Broadway/West End model)
- 1:44:01 – 1:47:52
Closing philosophy: avoiding news, focusing on family, and a brief musical sign-off
Rahman shares why he largely stopped watching news—constant proximity to suffering can make people sick and disheartened. He closes with a practical, grounded message: care for family and neighbors, keep faith in humanity, and ends with a short impromptu vocal line over guitar.
- •News avoidance as mental hygiene since early 2000s
- •Prioritizing family and local kindness over global doomscrolling
- •Don’t lose faith in humanity—‘you are humanity’
- •Short musical moment: Rahman sings while Nikhil plays chords
