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Nikhil KamathNikhil Kamath

A.R. Rahman: The Genius Who Took Indian Music Global | Nikhil Kamath | People by WTF | Ep 15

What struck me most in this conversation with AR Rahman was not his mastery but his humility. He talks openly about fear, self-doubt, imposter syndrome, and why he constantly leaves comfort to evolve. We got into everything, Bombay Dreams, London, Hollywood, Oscars, classical music’s future, AI composition, spiritual surrender, and why consistency matters more than lifestyle. If you’ve ever wondered how someone stays grounded while being celebrated globally, you should watch this! Timestamps: 00:00 – Early Life, Bangalore–Chennai Roots 03:17 – Childhood Trauma, Losing His Father & Growing Up in Studios 08:25 – Mother’s Strength, Family Survival & Entering Music Young 10:30 – Playing for Composers, Jingles & Early Experiments 13:30 – Building Panchathan Studio & Mani Ratnam Discovery 24:00 – The 90s Trend Change & Redefining Indian Music 26:36 – Classical Music, Gurus & The Spiritual Side of Art 31:00 – AI, Contrarian Thinking & Beating Predictive Models 34:29 – Talent, Practice, Singing & Evolving at Any Age 40:00 – Global Work: UN, KM Conservatory & Purpose-Driven Projects 43:18 – Fame, Privacy & The Price of Being Recognised 47:15 – Creativity, Tech & DM Collaborations 53:33 – Live Experiences, Theatre & Reinventing Entertainment 56:15 – Meta Glasses & His Passion Project 1:14:12 –His Personal Headspace, Altruism & Religious Beliefs 1:29:40 – Tu Hi Re: The Making, History & Magic Behind the Song 1:35:40 – The Future of Cinema: Immersive Screens, Haptics & Sound 1:43:54 – Final Thoughts: India, Scale, News & What’s On His Mind #nikhilkamath : Co-founder of Zerodha and Gruhas Host of 'WTF is' & 'People By WTF' Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/nikhilkamathcio/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilkamathcio/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilkamathcio?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nikhilkamathcio/ #arrahman : Indian musical composer and record producer Twitter - https://x.com/arrahman Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/arrahman/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/arrahman/ Threads - https://www.threads.com/@arrahman Watch 'WTF is' Podcast on Spotify https://tinyurl.com/4nsm4ezn Watch 'People by WTF' Podcast on Spotify https://tinyurl.com/yme92c59 Watch 'WTF Online' on Spotify https://tinyurl.com/4tjua4th #WTFiswithnikhilkamath #PeopleByWTF #WTFOnline

A.R. RahmanguestNikhil Kamathhost
Nov 20, 20251h 47mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:17

    Early Life, Bangalore–Chennai Roots

    1. SP

      [upbeat music]

    2. AR

      ...This compared to this profile shot.

    3. NK

      There was something-

    4. AR

      PM shot, PM.

    5. NK

      But this is the final stage. [upbeat music]

    6. AR

      Hello. Mr. Cha. Mm-hmm. Hi.

    7. NK

      How are you?

    8. AR

      Good.

    9. NK

      Thank you.

    10. AR

      Thank you for joining us.

    11. NK

      Thank you.

    12. AR

      Okay.

    13. NK

      She was telling me earlier-

    14. AR

      Put you under the bus now. [laughing]

    15. NK

      [laughing] She doesn't speak much. You also don't speak much. [laughing]

    16. AR

      [laughing] I told you, right? I predicted, right?

    17. NK

      When you speak Tamil-

    18. AR

      Yeah

    19. NK

      ... I can understand it, 'cause-

    20. AR

      Oh.

    21. NK

      -I'm also a South Indian.

    22. AR

      Oh!

    23. NK

      And I've grown up all my life in Bangalore.

    24. AR

      Bangalore. So Kannadiga.

    25. NK

      Kannadiga.

    26. AR

      Yeah.

    27. NK

      Half Kannadiga, half Konkani. Dad is from this town near Udupi called Udyavar.

    28. AR

      Mm.

    29. NK

      And Mom is from Mysore. Have you been to Bangalore much?

    30. AR

      Yeah, yeah.

  2. 3:17 – 8:25

    Childhood Trauma, Losing His Father & Growing Up in Studios

    1. NK

      Tell us a bit about your childhood. It feels like you're a... or from what I've heard, you were very introverted.

    2. AR

      Yeah.

    3. NK

      And now you're more open to speaking, because, as you have said, your ability to articulate has gone up significantly.

    4. AR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. NK

      What changed?

    6. AR

      Um, I think when I was growing up, I was-- went through all this, the death of my father, my grandmother, and then, um, conflicts, where I was just seeing trauma every day. Like, my mother was a single, very, very confident lady. She took all the pain.

    7. NK

      At what age did Dad pass away?

    8. AR

      Um, nine.

    9. NK

      Mm.

    10. AR

      And she had to go through, protect us from... And she was so strong that withstanding all the kind of humiliations, she single-handedly brought us up, right? Encouraging me to go into music. She decided for me that I should be in music, so I've told that, told that many times. And so, in a way, I felt like I should be clean, because I had three sisters, and me behaving in a certain way would also reflect what's coming back. And I was-- my whole childhood was with forty-year-old and fifty-year-old, and sixty-year-olds in the studio-

    11. NK

      Mm.

    12. AR

      -playing music.

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      And I missed all the fun with friends and all that stuff at school. No college, but-

    15. NK

      What year did you stop going to school?

    16. AR

      Fifteen, sixteen.

    17. NK

      Mm, same, actually, me also.

    18. AR

      You also?

    19. NK

      Mm.

    20. AR

      School is not just about education. It's about understanding humanity.

    21. NK

      Mm.

    22. AR

      It's about seeing each other and getting to know the stories-

    23. NK

      Mm

    24. AR

      ... and learning things from other kids, you know?

    25. NK

      Mm.

    26. AR

      Their families are different. Um, that I missed, definitely.

    27. NK

      Mm.

    28. AR

      But then I, I got the-- I was with the intelligent people in the studios, great musicians in the studio, which also inspired me to reach up to more musicality and play more stuff, and-

    29. NK

      Your dad was a successful-

    30. AR

      He was... So the story is like, Dad lived in his, uh, in his house, father, mother's house, and both Mom and Dad, um, their clothes were thrown onto the streets. Said, "Get out of this house," from his family members. So he had to go search for a house, so he took a rented house....and then to get us a house, he worked day and night.

  3. 8:25 – 10:30

    Mother’s Strength, Family Survival & Entering Music Young

    1. NK

      father's demise?

    2. AR

      Yeah, my mother became like a entrepreneur. She took the equipments and started renting it out.

    3. NK

      Mm.

    4. AR

      Everybody suggested that she should sell, -

    5. NK

      Mm

    6. AR

      ...sell all the stuff, put it in the bank, get the interest, and she said, "No, no, my son will play."

    7. NK

      Mm.

    8. AR

      "I'll keep my husband's stuff." And then she expanded it. She bought more keyboards for rental.

    9. NK

      Mm.

    10. AR

      We used to rent it out for light music for studios.

    11. NK

      Mm.

    12. AR

      So that was the income for, like, six, seven years, and then that stopped, because everybody started buying the equipments. That's when she said, "Now, it's not going to happen. You need to go and play."

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      "The equipment rental has gone down," and-

    15. NK

      And you started writing jingles?

    16. AR

      No, I started playing keyboards for other composers.

    17. NK

      Yeah?

    18. AR

      Like Telugu composers, Kannada composers, Mr. Ilaiyaraaja.

    19. NK

      Mm.

    20. AR

      Um, T. Rajender, M. S. Vishwanathan-

    21. NK

      Mm

    22. AR

      ... Raj-Koti. Like, multiple composers. Like, every day there are two songs.

    23. NK

      Mm.

    24. AR

      Every day there'll be like, I go at nine, I come back at ten.

    25. NK

      And do they tell you what to play or do you have to come up with it?

    26. AR

      Yeah, they have to... They will, they'll give the notes.

    27. NK

      Right.

    28. AR

      But after a while, I think when I bought my computer systems, my-

    29. NK

      Mm

    30. AR

      ... which is around '86, I, they gave me the freedom. They'll just give me a melody, and they'll say, "You arrange it."

  4. 10:30 – 13:30

    Playing for Composers, Jingles & Early Experiments

    1. NK

      like-

    2. AR

      Almost ten years.

    3. NK

      Ten years, and then they started first telling you what you should play, and then allowing you your own compositions or arrangement.

    4. AR

      Yeah.

    5. NK

      And then?

    6. AR

      And then slowly went into jingles, which [clears throat] everything is mine.

    7. NK

      Mm.

    8. AR

      Right, my-

    9. NK

      By jingles, you mean ads, right?

    10. AR

      Ads, yeah.

    11. NK

      Like in Tamil?

    12. AR

      No, I think jingles, because most of the agencies are international agencies, right?

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      OMM, HTA.

    15. NK

      Mm.

    16. AR

      Uh, they would do the scratches here-

    17. NK

      Mm

    18. AR

      ... and they will throw that out and do it in Mumbai. And then after a time, I think they've started agreeing. They started putting out my stuff. Initially, it was scratches.

    19. NK

      Mm. What is a scratch?

    20. AR

      Scratch is a tune where they just give it to the client to say-

    21. NK

      Mm

    22. AR

      ... uh, if it's a ointment or a paint, and they say, "Okay, yeah, this will work. Now go to a bigger-

    23. NK

      Mm

    24. AR

      ... jingle composer and get this." [chuckles] So then that became like, "Okay, now-

    25. NK

      Mm

    26. AR

      ... this itself is good enough, and we can use it."

    27. NK

      Right.

    28. AR

      So that's the process.

    29. NK

      Mm. When did it all change? When did it-

    30. AR

      '91.

  5. 13:30 – 24:00

    Building Panchathan Studio & Mani Ratnam Discovery

    1. AR

      '91, I think, '91.

    2. NK

      Right. So Roja released, and next day, people-

    3. AR

      Roja released.

    4. NK

      People started treating you differently altogether.

    5. AR

      Yeah, bec- because he's one of the top directors, which every actor, every composer wanted to work with him.

    6. NK

      Right.

    7. AR

      He's one of the top notch. Still, I feel like-

    8. NK

      Mm

    9. AR

      ... everybody is drooling over to work with a Mani Ratnam movie.

    10. NK

      Mm.

    11. AR

      Whether it's a success or a-

    12. NK

      Mm

    13. AR

      ... I think even the process is so respectful.

    14. NK

      The same is true to, for you. You know that, right?

    15. AR

      Yeah, absolutely. Oh, me? [laughing]

    16. NK

      [laughing]

    17. AR

      Okay.

    18. NK

      Yeah. And then everything changed. People around you, treated you changed. How did you change?

    19. AR

      How did I change? I was like, "Okay, this will be the last movie. I don't want this. I don't want movies, because I've been in movies, and it's so boring." But the Mani Ratnam movies are completely different.

    20. NK

      Mm.

    21. AR

      And he kind of listened to me, like, "This is what I want to do, or I don't want to do movies."

    22. NK

      Mm.

    23. AR

      Then I told him, like, I said, "I'm very satisfied working with you. I don't want to work with other people."

    24. NK

      Mm.

    25. AR

      Uh, he said, "No, no, no, no, you should work with everyone." [chuckles]

    26. NK

      Mm. Mm.

    27. AR

      So I said, "I'm very happy working just with you, and I'll do jingles or I'll do private albums."

    28. NK

      Mm.

    29. AR

      He said, "No, you should work with everyone." And, uh, so my first ten years was like, [lips smack] "Okay, enough! After this movie, I'll leave everything.

    30. NK

      Mm.

  6. 24:00 – 26:36

    The 90s Trend Change & Redefining Indian Music

    1. AR

      [chuckles]

    2. NK

      Right. What was the-

    3. AR

      There was a denial that, "Oh, this one last," and I think there was a denial constantly for-

    4. NK

      What was the incumbent trend, and what was the change in trend?

    5. AR

      There was this traditional kind of music, which is beautiful.

    6. NK

      Like?

    7. AR

      The Hindi composers were all there, and there's a beauty in it still.... but because I'm not made of that. [chuckles] My sensibility was different, because I was in a band. I like jazz, I like rock, I like, uh, you know, uh, Qawwali, I like Carnatic, I like Hindustani. So my aspiration was very expansive.

    8. NK

      Mm.

    9. AR

      I didn't want to stick to that dholak and, um, mandolin kind of, uh, this thing. I wanted to... Because I could do it.

    10. NK

      Mm.

    11. AR

      Because I, I was now experienced in arranging for other people, and-

    12. NK

      Right

    13. AR

      ... also seeing the results, and I had my own studio, and I could, uh, get to the results faster than imagining it, without people judging me. [chuckles]

    14. NK

      So you changed that trend into Roja kind of music, and how would you articulate that? What was Roja kind of music?

    15. AR

      Roja was very... So my intention was, when I met Mani Ratnam Ji, I said, "When we are listening to Pink Floyd-

    16. NK

      Right.

    17. AR

      -Queen-

    18. NK

      Right.

    19. AR

      um, John Williams-

    20. NK

      Mm.

    21. AR

      Vangelis, Beatles, Michael Jackson-

    22. NK

      Mm.

    23. AR

      ... they don't listen to us. [chuckles]

    24. NK

      Right.

    25. AR

      So what's the reason?

    26. NK

      Mm.

    27. AR

      Language, production, and, uh, vibe, feel, recording.

    28. NK

      Mm.

    29. AR

      Multiple things, right? So I addressed all the stuff. I was studying all the stuff. I addressed all the stuff. I said, "Tamil song, which we do here, should go," and my-- if you look at my internet- um, initial interviews, it says, uh, "Each Tamil song I do should go around the world."

    30. NK

      Right.

  7. 26:36 – 31:00

    Classical Music, Gurus & The Spiritual Side of Art

    1. AR

      [guitar playing]

    2. NK

      Indian classical music never had its day under the sun, per se. Like, at some point, rock music was cool, at some point, jazz was cool, at some point... I'm saying, across the world. In India, obviously, Bo- Bollywood is very, very popular.

    3. AR

      We need to position classical music in a very higher-

    4. NK

      Yeah

    5. AR

      ... way. I think right now it's like, "I, I give this much money, I can get a teacher." No.

    6. NK

      Yeah.

    7. AR

      Getting a good teacher, getting the, they say, heart-to-heart transfer of knowledge, mind-to-mind transfer, you know, spirit. Not just the knowledge of ragas, but the spirit of giving from a guru, is only India sees that. It comes in, you know, the saints and the Sufis. Uh, it's not just knowledge, it's giving. The prayer and the soul actually wishes something, it manifests, right? The product has to be truthful, the product has to be sincere. When it's sincere, they, they grab it. Because if you look at all the, the voice talent shows, they pick the best compositions usually. They pick because it's tough to sing, and it shows the prowess of the singer.

    8. NK

      Mm.

    9. AR

      That's very important. So even that, even classical music, the way it's performed, needs to change. It needs to be more immersive.

    10. NK

      Mm.

    11. AR

      And that's what we're doing. I have a band called Jaala, which-

    12. NK

      Mm-hmm.

    13. AR

      ... and we're also floating a, a award called the Bharat Maestro Award-

    14. NK

      Mm

    15. AR

      ... to find the next Zakir Hussain-

    16. NK

      Mm

    17. AR

      ... next Ravi Shankar. Of course, not Anushka Shankar-

    18. NK

      Yeah

    19. AR

      ... is there already. For India, we need to find them and then nail them, that these are the maestros of India. Like recently, I did a song called Muthu Mariya in Thug Life.

    20. NK

      Mm.

    21. AR

      It's a very complicated song.

    22. NK

      Mm.

    23. AR

      They embraced it so much.

    24. NK

      Mm.

    25. AR

      Embraced it, and it became a talk of... For three months, they were talking about the song.

    26. NK

      Mm.

    27. AR

      Because it, it has multiple ragas mixing and going in. And if we put our energy and mastery in how we deliver the songs to people, definitely they'll like it. It should not be the intention, "Oh, I'm giving you classical music. Listen to it, it's good for you." [chuckles]

    28. NK

      Mm.

    29. AR

      No, give something good-

    30. NK

      Mm

  8. 31:00 – 34:29

    AI, Contrarian Thinking & Beating Predictive Models

    1. AR

      ... so they look at a country in a way where they'll be the future people who will change the way it looks, better, like AI. [chuckles]

    2. NK

      I think creativity will become more relevant in the world of AI.

    3. AR

      Absolutely, because I think you're empowering people with, with a vision-

    4. NK

      Mm-hmm

    5. AR

      ... who don't know the chops.

    6. NK

      Mm-hmm.

    7. AR

      And the chops are actually AI. So-

    8. NK

      Mm

    9. AR

      ... the vision and the prompts actually gives you options which you say, "Oh, I love this."

    10. NK

      Mm.

    11. AR

      And it's a very empowering tool for, for younger people who don't have the access to make a movie or-

    12. NK

      Mm

    13. AR

      ... make art, or they don't know how to paint, but they have a vision. At least it'll force them to have an example to, in part of what it's creating, to beat that.

    14. NK

      Mm.

    15. AR

      Right? Which is an interesting thing now, I think, when you do music also.

    16. NK

      Mm.

    17. AR

      You're constantly thinking. Now, the songs which are coming out are very experimental.

    18. NK

      Mm.

    19. AR

      Like, the, recently there's a song by RAYE, R-A-Y-E.

    20. NK

      Mm-hmm.

    21. AR

      And it clearly shows that she's trying to beat AI.

    22. NK

      How is that?

    23. AR

      Uh, the way the construction of the song-

    24. NK

      Mm

    25. AR

      ... uh, is different from what people would do, which, what AI copies, right? It's learned from the past, so.

    26. NK

      So you have to be contrarian to whatever the predictive model is.

    27. AR

      Absolutely, yeah. It forces us to think differently.

    28. NK

      Mm.

    29. AR

      "Okay, now we've got that. Okay, how about this?"

    30. NK

      Mm. But can't tomorrow, another AI just play the role of a contrarian?

  9. 34:29 – 40:00

    Talent, Practice, Singing & Evolving at Any Age

    1. NK

      And for all the aspiring musicians and songwriters and composers watching this, what do you think the next change in trend will be that they can get on early?

    2. AR

      I think all of them are so smart now.

    3. NK

      Mm.

    4. AR

      And because the exposure-

    5. NK

      Mm

    6. AR

      ... they get to see everything on reels and on social media.

    7. NK

      Mm.

    8. AR

      Every person is a makeup person, an actor-

    9. NK

      Mm

    10. AR

      ... a cinematographer, a director, and it's fascinating to see how the younger people are evolving. Like, I discover so many people who are extraordinary in comedy-

    11. NK

      Mm

    12. AR

      ... in direction-

    13. NK

      Mm

    14. AR

      ... in effective, you know, reels. Like, it's just thirty seconds, and-

    15. NK

      Right

    16. AR

      ... they have to come up with stuff.

    17. NK

      Right.

    18. AR

      And it forces them to become great directors, storytellers.

    19. NK

      Mm.

    20. AR

      And so I get inspired by them. [chuckles]

    21. NK

      Mm.

    22. AR

      Yeah.

    23. NK

      But any, any suggestions? Young-

    24. AR

      Lean into it.

    25. NK

      Mm.

    26. AR

      Leaning into something, not giving up.

    27. NK

      Mm.

    28. AR

      Like, you shouldn't give up. You should go back to music and-

    29. NK

      [chuckles]

    30. AR

      ... lean into it.

  10. 40:00 – 43:18

    Global Work: UN, KM Conservatory & Purpose-Driven Projects

    1. NK

      different years of your life and what happened, and I'm trying to, like, go into today. You did Andrew Lloyd Webber, Dil Se happened, Vande Mataram: India at Fifty, Maa Tujhe Salaam, all of that happened. We come to 2006.

    2. AR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. NK

      What's happening around this era? You started in '90s because of the studio.

    4. AR

      Mm.

    5. NK

      When you started a studio, you got this big break in Roja. Your life changed overnight. People around you started treating you like something else. You got a little imposter complex and insecure about putting all your eggs in one basket because you had seen it happen at home at an early age. You diversified. You continued to do many things. You went to Andrew Lloyd Webber's thing. You did things outside of India, in India. Tell us where your mind is at two thousand and six, seven, eight, around this era, global slowdown era.

    6. AR

      So two thousand and six, I was, uh, appointed as the stop TB ambassador by UN.

    7. NK

      Mm-hmm.

    8. AR

      Uh, so I went, traveled to Singapore, met AIDS, TB patients, and a very completely different role. I met Kofi Annan in the UN, all that stuff. And then that's when my foundation, idea of foundation came by.

    9. NK

      And by this time, you were a big deal, because you're meeting them.

    10. AR

      I don't know. [chuckles]

    11. NK

      Hundred percent.

    12. AR

      Yeah, I don't... Uh, so I meet them.

    13. NK

      Uh.

    14. AR

      Uh, I come back with a vision of, like, why don't we have a school?

    15. NK

      Uh.

    16. AR

      Like, you know, all these musicians are my father's age now, and what if they pass, and we don't have string players or trumpet players?

    17. NK

      Mm.

    18. AR

      So the idea of, uh, starting the school came at 2008-

    19. NK

      Mm

    20. AR

      ... where, uh, I said, called one of my associates and said, "Hey, we have to start a school."

    21. NK

      Uh.

    22. AR

      "It's a free school. I'm gonna..." He said, "No, no, no, no. Free school, nobody's gonna respect. You have to get money, and I'll be the-- and I'll take care of it." So I didn't know anything, so I took-

    23. NK

      Right

    24. AR

      ... I called him, and he took care of it. And then there were so many conflicts, so many-

    25. NK

      Right

    26. AR

      ... conflicts happening. It evolved, and then finally, we bought a bigger place. Um, Mr. Ambani came and kindly inaugurated the place in 2013.

    27. NK

      Mm.

    28. AR

      My mother was there.

    29. NK

      Mm.

    30. AR

      And we started the KM Conservatory, where it is now, in Chennai.

  11. 43:18 – 47:15

    Fame, Privacy & The Price of Being Recognised

    1. NK

      you feel personally? Like, now I'm guessing wherever you are, like, people are probably, like, surrounding you and asking you for this and that, and pictures, and...

    2. AR

      No, actually, I have a lot of private moments in the studio.

    3. NK

      No, when you're at home, yes. But if you step out?

    4. AR

      I step out very rarely.

    5. NK

      But whenever you do-

    6. AR

      I'm prepared for it. [chuckles]

    7. NK

      Mm.

    8. AR

      Uh, when I'm very uncomfortable is when you take a long sixteen-hour flight and you're in transit, when people come in-

    9. NK

      Mm.

    10. AR

      -and I say, "I'm tired."

    11. NK

      Mm.

    12. AR

      "No, no, no, but we have to go. Can you take a photograph?" [chuckles]

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      Anyway, it's part of the game.

    15. NK

      Is there an on/off button?

    16. AR

      For what?

    17. NK

      For when some fan walks up to you, and he's... and you're tired, you're in transit.

    18. AR

      Yeah, it is, but rarely. It's not every day, so-

    19. NK

      See-

    20. AR

      Now I have the mask.

    21. NK

      They recognize you with the mask?

    22. AR

      No.

    23. NK

      No?

    24. AR

      Not everyone. Because I don't go with securities. I just go walk alone.

    25. NK

      Uh, no security anywhere, in Chennai?

    26. AR

      Only, only when I'm doing shows.

    27. NK

      Right.

    28. AR

      Because when you don't go with security, people don't take you seriously. Only when, like, a group of six people come over, "Somebody's important. Oh, that should be him." So...

    29. NK

      When you go to dinner in Chennai, for example, you have to-

    30. AR

      That is the irony of my life.

  12. 47:15 – 53:33

    Creativity, Tech & DM Collaborations

    1. AR

      and, yeah. And I sometimes DM people. [chuckles]

    2. NK

      Mm.

    3. AR

      If there's a good, uh, person with a farm, uh, interesting-

    4. NK

      Mm

    5. AR

      ... plantation thing, I DM them, say, "Hey-

    6. NK

      Yeah

    7. AR

      ... I would like to meet you." Then, you know, it's like random people. It's not just music. It is illustrators and cosplay artists sometimes.

    8. NK

      Mm. Anyone incredible you've run across like this by DM-ing them? By DM, I'm assuming social media.

    9. AR

      The, the most biggest surprise I got was Spike Lee DM-ing me-

    10. NK

      Yeah?

    11. AR

      ... "Hey, sir, how are you?" [chuckles]

    12. NK

      Really?

    13. AR

      Yeah, I was doing COVID time.

    14. NK

      DM on what platform?

    15. AR

      On Instagram.

    16. NK

      You're active like that? You use it yourself?

    17. AR

      Yeah.

    18. NK

      Yeah?

    19. AR

      Yeah.

    20. NK

      Can I message you on?

    21. AR

      Of course.

    22. NK

      Yeah?

    23. AR

      But I, I don't pick everything.

    24. NK

      Uh.

    25. AR

      I see sometimes people-

    26. NK

      Uh.

    27. AR

      I see some blue, oh, blue tick, like I see, who's that?

    28. NK

      What would be interesting for me to send you on Instagram that will make you be like, "Thanks, Nikhil, for sending me?" [chuckles]

    29. AR

      I have this investor who's got one billion dollars to invest in your company.

    30. NK

      [chuckles]

  13. 53:33 – 56:15

    Live Experiences, Theatre & Reinventing Entertainment

    1. AR

      things which comes. Human experience is the, the best word I would say, which it can't do. Anything on TV could be generated now.

    2. NK

      Mm.

    3. AR

      Right? So I, I think that that's why live concerts, live dance, live musical theatre, symphonies will be respected even more, right? The value of that is gonna go.

    4. NK

      So in a way, you're saying building more live experiences, businesses, for young people who want to start a business.

    5. AR

      Because we're all now locked in something called the flats, imprisoned in those little boxes. We can't even get out.

    6. NK

      Mm.

    7. AR

      So live actually gives, goes back to that community feeling, where you enjoy something with the other person, share the experience, the joy. And-

    8. NK

      Mm

    9. AR

      ... that, like, that is also being reinvented now, live experiences now. The way visuals and everything is time-code sync with, with, um, augmented, uh, musical gadgets-

    10. NK

      Mm

    11. AR

      ... visual gadgets.

    12. NK

      Mm.

    13. AR

      So the experience is not as, like, how we watched ten years back. It's much more better now.

    14. NK

      When you work with people, and you try and figure out what music should be put out-... I'm guessing very often you know so much more about music than these people.

    15. AR

      I don't know anything. [chuckles] I, I go like a blank slate-

    16. NK

      Yeah

    17. AR

      ... because-

    18. NK

      Like, if a movie producer tells you, for example, say, in Hollywood, that this is not working, can we change it? What do you do?

    19. AR

      Always change it. I, uh, I don't go with one idea.

    20. NK

      Right.

    21. AR

      I go with sometimes four ideas, five ideas.

    22. NK

      Mm.

    23. AR

      Then I throw out two of them.

    24. NK

      Mm.

    25. AR

      So I keep sometimes three. I play them, and and sometimes you have an instinct to say-

    26. NK

      Mm.

    27. AR

      "This is gonna work," right?

    28. NK

      Mm.

    29. AR

      I put that in somewhere. I think they will connect to something. "But this is nice, but can you do this?" "Yeah, I'll add that." It's not a ready-made product which is given.

    30. NK

      Mm.

  14. 56:15 – 1:14:12

    Meta Glasses & His Passion Project

    1. NK

      I was in Delhi a couple of days ago, and I was at a friend's house, and I tried the new Meta Glasses.

    2. AR

      Okay. It's coming?

    3. NK

      It's coming, yeah, which have a... So on the right side, they have a display, and you have to wear a band.

    4. AR

      Yeah.

    5. NK

      And then you click like this, and you scroll like this. For the first time, it's starting to feel like it could be the form factor.

    6. AR

      It could be the form, yeah.

    7. NK

      Yeah. Do you have a bet on what could be the form factor of tomorrow, how you interact with AI?

    8. AR

      Uh, so I started researching on virtual reality-

    9. NK

      Mm-hmm

    10. AR

      ... around from two thousand and fifteen.

    11. NK

      Mm-hmm.

    12. AR

      So I directed my first VR movie in two thousand and sixteen, and I was fascinated because it, it's so real, it's so immersive, and it helps you to go to places which you've never been. Like, the spaces, you can, you can see spaces which... Antarctica, you know-

    13. NK

      Mm

    14. AR

      ... the Vatican-

    15. NK

      Right

    16. AR

      ... mm, the Kaaba-

    17. NK

      Right

    18. AR

      ... and the temple, where pe-people... It's so real, right? And I could probably look at one image for more than five minutes. It's, there's so many details, so much detail-

    19. NK

      Mm

    20. AR

      ... in it. So it fascinated, and then I, I said, "Why don't we do..." I had a story, and I said, "Why can't we do a movie in this?" This is a path nobody's taking.

    21. NK

      Mm.

    22. AR

      It is a very difficult path.

    23. NK

      Mm.

    24. AR

      Lone Ranger, taking it and working. So I did Le Masque now. It's been almost nine years since I directed that one.

    25. NK

      Wow!

    26. AR

      It's playing in Singapore, and it's playing in Vancouver Dome now.

    27. NK

      Mm. And you have to wear the VR glasses?

    28. AR

      In Vancouver, no, it's projected in the dome.

    29. NK

      Right.

    30. AR

      It's been translated to dome thing.

  15. 1:14:12 – 1:29:40

    His Personal Headspace, Altruism & Religious Beliefs

    1. AR

      plot, so.

    2. NK

      Near the house?

    3. AR

      It's one hour from Chennai.

    4. NK

      Mm.

    5. AR

      That's where her samadhi is also there. [gentle music]

    6. NK

      Okay, this is on the work side. Tell us what's going on in the personal side.

    7. AR

      Personal-

    8. NK

      By personal, I don't mean like some controversial thing or anything like that. Where is your head space at? How are you looking at society, at music, at... What is occupying mindshare?

    9. AR

      I think what's beautiful about the past, uh, I would say eighteen years, is starting the foundation, starting the music school, and, uh, watching miracles happen there. You know, kids, um-

    10. NK

      Mm

    11. AR

      ... demolishing the whole stigma, saying that this caste is intelligent, this caste is not, demolishing all that stuff. If any kid who's created by God, this, the light of God is in every kid, and the knowledge comes from God. It's not that they are worthy or not.

    12. NK

      Mm.

    13. AR

      If they're taught properly-

    14. NK

      Mm-hmm

    15. AR

      ... and we find those kids, they shine, they become an orchestra, and they all play together as one voice, as one emotion. So that's what we discovered, and it's a phenomenal breakthrough, which we are proud as a family. My sister runs the school. I go there. I'm the mentor. I'm the principal.

    16. NK

      Mm-hmm.

    17. AR

      And then recently, we went to Canada for the Glenn Gould Foundation. They invited us, and they all played. It's such a great moment to see kids from corporation schools taking a flight, going to Canada-

    18. NK

      Mm-hmm

    19. AR

      ... and playing for, you know, billionaires sitting there.

    20. NK

      Mm.

    21. AR

      And that itself is a great statement, and that keeps me going. If I'm the principal of that kind of kids, I need to be shining more-

    22. NK

      Mm-hmm

    23. AR

      ... I need to be working more, and that keeps me going. And like people ask me, "What keeps you going?"

    24. NK

      Mm.

    25. AR

      "Is that I need to inspire my, my school children there, my students, where we are teaching incredible artistry, right? To sing or to play the piano, to compose-

    26. NK

      Mm-hmm

    27. AR

      ... um, to inspire. Yeah.

    28. NK

      Do you think humans can innately be altruistic, selfless?

    29. AR

      It is how we were brought up.

    30. NK

      Mm.

  16. 1:29:40 – 1:35:40

    Tu Hi Re: The Making, History & Magic Behind the Song

    1. NK

      it's easy to be godlike if you get the validation and devotion that comes with being known as God. It's much harder for a normal person to be godlike by virtue of that.

    2. AR

      So who's the god?

    3. NK

      You're known as the god. [chuckles]

    4. AR

      No, no, I'm not. [chuckles]

    5. NK

      I mean, God of music in this domain, for sure.

    6. AR

      No, they just, yeah-

    7. NK

      I am, I am such a big fan. Like, your song, Tu Hi Re, I think I must have heard that song through so many, like, heartbreaks and falling in love and stuff like that. Uh, and maybe you wrote it for a completely different reason, but-

    8. AR

      Actually, you know-

    9. NK

      Yeah

    10. AR

      ... strangely, what happened was-

    11. NK

      Uh.

    12. AR

      Mani wanted a, he wanted a love song.

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      I was like, "What love song?" And I was so famished, and I was, like, sleeping, and then this tune was coming into my mind. [humming]

    15. NK

      Mm.

    16. AR

      I said, "It's so slow."

    17. NK

      Mm.

    18. AR

      So anyway, it's coming. It's like, coming in my dream.

    19. NK

      Right. [chuckles]

    20. AR

      So I took my... I used to have a tape recorder, like a mini cassette, so I just recorded it. And so next day, he said, "Where is the tune?" I said, "I got one tune." He's like, "It's okay. Let's record." Then we recorded it, and so for the, for the singers-

    21. NK

      Mm

    22. AR

      ... I was, I wanted, uh, SPB or Jayasudas.

    23. NK

      Mm.

    24. AR

      So I put also Hariharan's name, and then I-

    25. NK

      Mm

    26. AR

      ... picked. I don't do that anymore. So I prayed and picked one. It-...and Hariharan's name?

    27. NK

      Right.

    28. AR

      So Hari is a very, very unusual singer for that song, right?

    29. NK

      Mm. Why is that?

    30. AR

      Because he's a ghazal singer.

  17. 1:35:40 – 1:43:54

    The Future of Cinema: Immersive Screens, Haptics & Sound

    1. NK

      Are you bored of movies now?

    2. AR

      No, I'm never bored.

    3. NK

      Yeah.

    4. AR

      Because, you know, if a Western artist has to do an album, they have to think about it. I'm getting help from the script, from the director-

    5. NK

      Mm

    6. AR

      ... from the screenwriter, from the lyricist. My part is just music, right?

    7. NK

      Mm.

    8. AR

      So each album is different because-

    9. NK

      Mm

    10. AR

      ... the different combination of different consciousness comes together.

    11. NK

      Mm.

    12. AR

      And we create with the intention of creating something great. We push ourselves into, and then we have live feedback.

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      Each song is, you know, how it's received and how people... So that magic has not changed at all, like, what you get from people, that instant feedback and the adulation in the concert. It's a great thing.

    15. NK

      Mm.

    16. AR

      I never want to lose that. [chuckles] And if I want to do anything, like, I want to do a private album-

    17. NK

      Mm

    18. AR

      ... instrumental album or a collaborative album, I'm free to do it.

    19. NK

      Mm.

    20. AR

      Nobody's stopping me.

    21. NK

      Mm. The big project right now is Ramayan?

    22. AR

      There's Ramayan. There's, uh, so many, Secret Mountain-

    23. NK

      Mm

    24. AR

      ... and, um, couple of English ones going on, and, and an Arabic movie [chuckles] I composed.

    25. NK

      Really?

    26. AR

      Horror movie-

    27. NK

      Wow

    28. AR

      ... called Bab. Then-

    29. NK

      Namit showed me parts of Ramayan.

    30. AR

      Namit, sure, yeah.

  18. 1:43:54 – 1:47:52

    Final Thoughts: India, Scale, News & What’s On His Mind

    1. NK

      [gentle music] Okay, I mean, I have no questions per se left. Last part-

    2. AR

      Ah.

    3. NK

      Anything else you want to say? Fleeting thoughts about the world, society. What are, what is occupying your mind space that you're actually thinking about?

    4. AR

      I, I stopped seeing the news literally from 2000, 2001, after the war.

    5. NK

      Smart man. I think most people should stop.

    6. AR

      And whenever I tried, sometimes, you know, I forget and go into streaming, and I see, and then I get sick.

    7. NK

      Mm.

    8. AR

      So I think the best choice for anybody-

    9. NK

      Mm

    10. AR

      ... is to look at your own family, your own welfare, your own parents, your kids, and be kind to your friends-

    11. NK

      Mm

    12. AR

      ... your neighbors. [chuckles]

    13. NK

      Mm.

    14. AR

      And because if you think about the world, what's going to happen to the world-

    15. NK

      Yeah

    16. AR

      ... you miss what is going to happen to your family. If you look after your family, the world will take care of itself. [chuckles]

    17. NK

      Makes sense. I think even back in the day, world was going through problems. It's just today we are seeing the problems.

    18. AR

      Now we're seeing everything, like, this close.

    19. NK

      Yeah.

    20. AR

      So every, every problem looks, like, big.

    21. NK

      Yeah, like now we are wo- wondering why is some crime happening in some corner of Africa. I'm sure it was happening fifty years ago.

    22. AR

      Absolutely. Not that we are insensitive about it.

    23. NK

      Yeah.

    24. AR

      I think we just definitely have to develop a great justice system, social.

    25. NK

      Right.

    26. AR

      But it's important not to get disheartened and lose your faith in humanity, because you are humanity. Each one of us is humanity.

    27. NK

      Right.

    28. AR

      Our good and bad affects humanity. It's very important.

    29. NK

      Okay. Thank you so much for doing this. Would you like to finish with a song? Is it possible?

    30. AR

      [chuckles] I'll play. I'll send you a clip. [chuckles]

Episode duration: 1:47:52

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