Trump says American cities are "cesspools." These mayors have receipts.

Speaker 0:00 Name for me the five great American cities who have built their brand on being anti-immigrant. You can't name one because those cities are forgotten now. It is on.

Kara Swisher 0:10 [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. With midterms heating up, national politics is playing out city by city, especially on affordability, housing, and immigration. Today, I'm joined by three Democratic mayors on the front lines of those fights: Mike Johnston of Denver, Quinton Lucas of Kansas City, and Helena Moreno of New Orleans. We'll talk about what's actually working, what Washington gets wrong, and what their party needs to learn from governing locally. Plus, a question from former Transportation Secretary and South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg. Let's get to it. Mike, Quinton, and Helena, thanks for coming on on.

Speaker 0:49 Great to be with you.

Helena Moreno 0:50 Great to be with you.

Kara Swisher 0:51 Great.

Speaker 0:51 Thank you for having us.

Kara Swisher 0:52 I, I love talking to mayors. Just so you know, I'm a mayor fan 'cause you tend to have a better discussion with people actually running things. Um, but you're governing cities during a time still of intense political polarization, and for, uh, Quinton in Missouri, Helena in Louisiana, you're politically at odds with your state government. Um, we're gonna cover a lot of issues today, but first I'd like each of you to talk about the moment when you were able to overcome partisan divides at the city or state level, or not, and what did you accomplish? Uh, Mike, you start, and then Helena, and then Quinton.

Speaker 1:25 Yeah, I think for us, we found there's a lot of shared priorities, and even when you see very ideological debates in DC, they get quite practical on the ground. I'll give you one example that seems the most, uh, divisive, and that was the migrant crisis. You know, when we had migrants that arrived in Denver, we had 40,000 migrants in Denver, more than any city in the country per capita. But I would talk to folks on the far left who'd say, "Mike, this is crazy. Uh, it is their civil right that every one of these folks should be able to, to work." And then I would talk to conservative leaders in the city who would say, "This is crazy, Mike. Those people should have to work." I'd say, "Great. We all actually agree. The fundamental strategies here is let's get people the opportunity to work, pay taxes, support the economy." That's what we did. It worked very successfully. They're paying taxes in housing units supporting themselves. So I think that's one where the debate about how folks arrive at the border can be ideological. When they're on your doorstep and they don't have food or a place to stay, it gets quite pragmatic, and I think people work together quite well in those moments.

Kara Swisher 2:17 All right. Helena?

Helena Moreno 2:19 Well, look, I mean, for, for us here in the city of New Orleans, I can tell you that one, one way that we really came together with our state was around the most recent Super Bowl that we had here in the city of New Orleans, where we worked in a, a very coordinated way with our state leadership, uh, here locally as well, to ensure that the finances were right, that the city was prepared and ready to host Super Bowl. So everything from infrastructure improvements to, uh, making sure that, uh, you know, we were, uh, prepared public safety-wise as well, really great coordination with the federal government, um, also. So I would say that that's a, a great example of how we can all come together and work well, but there are just so many other examples where we're just at odds, and really unnecessarily at odds. Because even, even when we have potentially shared goals, there's this kind of way of, of, of almost not wanting, um, our city, our blue city, to succeed in some ways. And so that, that has been the, the challenging piece. Uh, you know, we had a very contentious legislative session this past spring. Everything from, of course, the, the redistricting that occurred. We lost one Black congressional seat in the state of Louisiana, and so that was contentious. At the same time, the state came in and they decided that they wanted to, in their words, "rightsize" the court system here in the city of New Orleans without any input-

Kara Swisher 3:45 Mm-hmm

Helena Moreno 3:46 ... from city leadership-

Speaker 3:47 Mm-hmm

Helena Moreno 3:48 ... or from, from city, uh, state legislators.

Kara Swisher 3:50 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 3:50 And because it got so heated, uh, the governor didn't like that. And so after the legislative session, he also went through and did a series of vetoes for New Orleans appropriations, about $30 million worth. Everything from planning and design for a new city hall to over a million dollars for a, a new football te- uh, football field for our, our state champs, uh, football team here in the city of New Orleans. So those types of punitive things, um, have been very challenging.

Kara Swisher 4:21 What about you, Quinton?

Speaker 4:22 You know, I think the place that I will pick, we did have good cooperation on the FIFA World Cup.

Kara Swisher 4:27 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4:27 Governor, actually White House, others were a key part of it. But interestingly enough, housing.

Kara Swisher 4:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4:33 And the reason I say it is interesting, because when we talk affordable housing, generally affordability, you would think that there are broader differences. But-

Kara Swisher 4:39 Mm-hmm

Speaker 4:40 ... starting with my senior senator, Joshua Hawley, there is this interest in going at out-of-state landlords, ne'er-do-well landlords, slumlords, who are having people live in squalor. And so we have seen pretty concerted efforts that usually start at the city level, either in Kansas City or St. Louis, and administrative actors, both at the state government level, certainly our federal electeds, who've said, "We're gonna work with you. The attorney general's gonna bring certain claims against them. We're gonna try to negotiate actual concessions and repairs." The sort of thing that suggests that there is this undercurrent of putting some meat on the bones to what affordability is, and that some of our peers on the right actually care about them. And on the list of, like, things that Josh Hawley and I agree on, that is probably, like, one out of maybe, like, two total that we have in a list of thousands of other issues that impact us each day.

Kara Swisher 5:31 So let's start locally with public safety and economic development. President Trump described America's cities as, quote, "rotting" and "cesspools of blood." Mike, how did, how does the rhetoric shape your ability to govern? Does that make your job harder with residents, investors, and federal government, or is it just noise?

Speaker 5:48 Uh, I think it's noise, but it does impact, I think, people's confidence to wanna live in cities. I think what we've really worked hard on is showing that the facts on the ground are absolutely the opposite of that, actually. I mean, we... And, and, and for us, we were double hit because he both made the narrative of cities that receive migrants will be cesspools of crime, and blue cities are already cesspools of crime. And then in the year that we brought in the most migrants in the country, we also saw the largest drop in the homicide rate of any city in the country and the largest drop in homelessness of any city in the country. And so, uh, our b- belief is that we can actually show that these problems are solvable. The cities are capable of solving them, and the more we can show these results, the more it actually proves to our residents and the rest of the country that it's nothing like what he describes, and there are actually places where you're seeing dramatic successes on making the impacts on things people care the most about, like is my city safe?

Kara Swisher 6:37 Do, do pe-

Speaker 6:38 Is it affordable?

Kara Swisher 6:39 Does it affect, say, tourism or... Because I know the whole San Francisco thing was insane. Like, there were, there were homeless problems here, no question, which are now being dealt with by the current mayor. But I often run into people, and they're like, "This is beautiful." I'm like, and the cheese is delicious. Like, I don't know. Don't believe what you see. It's a really... It's a weird thing for someone born and raised in a city to do, uh, to talk about cities, but-

Speaker 7:01 We do have to fight that perception. I'll talk to folks who say, "Oh gosh, I hear that it's-- crime's tough in Denver." And I'll say, "Great. When was the last time you were here?"

Kara Swisher 7:07 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7:07 And they'll say, "Oh, 2021." I say, "Okay, well, that's, that was a different world than that."

Kara Swisher 7:10 Right.

Speaker 7:10 So that's true for our own suburbs, where we wanna make sure people come downtown and experience-

Kara Swisher 7:15 Mm-hmm

Speaker 7:15 ... how vibrant it is, but it also is, uh, being able to tell a different story to people around the country who are looking at where do they wanna invest capital or move businesses. We think that's an important-

Kara Swisher 7:23 Or even just visit

Speaker 7:24 ... part of the story.

Kara Swisher 7:25 Yeah.

Speaker 7:25 It is.

Kara Swisher 7:25 So even just... Now, New Orleans is one of the six cities where President Trump deployed the National Guard since June of last year. It's worth noting crime in New Orleans has been trending downward for several years, according to local reporting. H- Helena, this isn't the first time the National Guard has been to New Orleans, but talk about the latest deployment. It, it just ended after eight months. W- were there tensions, and what was the ultimate impact on public safety? And I will say, where I also-

Helena Moreno 7:49 Sure

Kara Swisher 7:49 ... live in DC, they're still wandering around. I feel bad for them. I hand them drinks all the time. [laughs] I'm like, "Here you go." But they're not doing anything 'cause there's nothing wrong to fix.

Helena Moreno 7:58 Right.

Kara Swisher 7:58 There's nothing to fix.

Helena Moreno 7:59 Thanks. So in New Orleans, we're a little bit different because we are used to having the National Guard here. Uh, the-

Kara Swisher 8:04 Mm-hmm

Helena Moreno 8:04 ... National Guard comes in and has traditional- traditionally come in for many, many years, uh, for the major events that we have during Mardi Gras season, and I, I wanna remind everyone that Mardi Gras isn't just a day. It is a full season. So they're here for, for weeks, and, um, because of that, obviously they were here all during Super Bowl. They're here during Sugar Bowl. They're here during, uh, Bayou Classic and, and all types of other major events that we have here in New Orleans. They're also always here around storm season. Any time that we have a, a tropical development, uh, come our way, the Guard is here. So they're very much already a part of what we bring in for public safety. Their extended deployment, you know, uh, uh, I think at first it was a little bit worrisome, just, like, what would that look like? Because we try to always be a very welcoming city as well. That's what we're known for, our hospitality, being welcoming, and we worry that the perception of, you know, or, or the look of having those military personnel with the big, long arms and everything or, or firearms, uh, that it would, it would be problematic for our tourism industry. We didn't, we didn't see a decrease in numbers, uh, because of that. At times, some tourists were a little bit taken aback by that particular look, but I think more importantly, and you just brought up, uh, uh, uh, an important issue, is that what exactly were they doing, right? So we as a city really had to work to figure out at times, like, what would be the, the best way to de- to really deploy the Guard and to work with the Guard so that they could be valuable to our New Orleans Police Department. And so that, we worked closely with them so that they wouldn't just be, you know, lack of a better term, just sitting around. But I will say this, you know. I think that Mike brought up a really good point about telling the right story. For example, in the city of New Orleans, we are the safest that we have been since the 1960s. For the first year ever, knock on wood, our murder rate may be below 100, which hasn't happened in recent recorded history. So that's where we are, and it hasn't just been because of our law enforcement deployment or National Guard coming in. It's also been because of the amount of money that we have spent on prevention. We are one of the top 10 cities when it comes to spending on crime prevention. And so I think that, that co- that, that coordinated approach of really investing in prevention through our health department, uh, and also through our recreation services, you name it, and creating opportunities for people, and also that right coordination on the law enforcement piece, that has brought us to where we are today.

Kara Swisher 10:43 Mm-hmm. So now, uh, Quinton, um, y- in-- Kansas City was the World Cup host this summer-

Quinton Lucas 10:48 Yeah

Kara Swisher 10:48 ... as you noted. You, you said recently it proved the city's capable of managing events at that scale, and you're looking to host the Women's World Cup in 2031. Um, to what extent do events like this talk about raising the national profile of the city, and why does it matter? And, and what are the benefits to the city and the downsides?

Quinton Lucas 11:07 Well, it's something that everyone on this call, every mayor thinks about. I know Mike's gonna have the 2028 Democratic National Convention. Uh, we are just decreeing it now. But, uh-

Speaker 11:17 [laughs] Thank you

Quinton Lucas 11:17 ... you know, part of, you know, yeah, the question of why, and former Mayor Rahm Emanuel and I would have a respectful difference on this. I think we were able to benefit from the fact Chicago did not put in a bid in for the FIFA World Cup. He contends they were making them build a dome, all that sort of stuff. Look, our infrastructure cost wasn't going to be the same. I think there are a few things that make these events very good, particularly depending on the city and what the size is. Maybe people find them irrelevant. I think jobs, service industry jobs, a lot of the setup jobs, entertainment jobs, studios and others, are a great thing for our community and a huge thing for lots of people in all of our communities, so that's step one. The step two is often enhancing in terms of cost your public safety expenses, all of those steps. In many cases, you still have cops, sheriff's deputies, others from all around the state who are working during those times. Usually, it's overtime. But I don't think you can overestimate the value of brand. As much as I wanna think you all are thinking about Kansas City every day, I encourage you to, maybe you're not And so maybe occasionally-

Speaker 12:20 I am for different reasons. [laughs]

Quinton Lucas 12:21 Absolutely. Because, you know, we-

Speaker 12:22 [laughs]

Quinton Lucas 12:22 ... we're good at winning against this team, although not lately. But I think what we are trying to do is say and signify, right? Look, there is global attention on a space. People are coming in and out. There's real energy. You can put on great events. And I think in this big question of what is Americana too, almost every city that had World Cup games kept talking about Atlanta 1996. And when you think about that Olympiad, Atlanta before that point, fine American cities, some good headquarters, all that sort of stuff. That was kind of the point where they said, "You all can't look away from our culture. We're not just the story of a Southern city. We're this place you're always gonna consider, always think about." That's why cities like mine, many others I think, are competing to make sure that we're in those spaces where people are looking, people are paying attention. And on the costs, I'll say this, we're gonna spend money on other things, and I would rather have it be the sorts of things that amplify our brand, build us for future events, rather than us just doing kind of one-offs and that sort of thing. So-

Kara Swisher 13:21 Right

Quinton Lucas 13:21 ... it was a success here. I think it was a great thing. That's why we're looking at more ahead.

Kara Swisher 13:25 Mm-hmm. So each of you are leading revitalization initiatives in your cities. Is, is there one project you think holds, very briefly, the most promise or m- most innovative? I mean, I was just in Chicago. I was looking at their quantum, their new quantum, uh, computing campus, really interesting, that they're creating. Some don't work. Some of these don't work. Uh, Helena, you go first, and then, uh, Quinton, and then Mike.

Helena Moreno 13:47 Sure. Well, there's a couple of, of major things that we're working that, on that we think would be really transformative. Um-

Kara Swisher 13:52 Mm-hmm

Helena Moreno 13:52 ... there is a, a lot of people don't know this about the city of New Orleans, but we do have a major NASA facility that is here. It's called the NASA Michoud facility, and it's actually where all of the rockets for every NASA shuttle that's gone up in the air has been built, including most recently with Artemis. So we right now are launching a real effort around aerospace and working with NASA in this, uh, secure perimeter that they have in New Orleans East to see w- what else can potentially be brought there, particularly because of all the excitement around Artemis. At the same time, we as a city are, are, um, creating this innovation, uh, zone around this area. And not far from this area is also another specific zone where we are, uh, preparing for site development around a, a major port initiative that is happening. We have about a $300 million, uh, uh, major port expansion that's occurring at this point, where we are, uh, getting the corridor leading up to this port expansion for the Port of New Orleans for additional types of, of course, warehousing and logistics and things like that. But at the same time, we do have, um, some of our higher ed institutions who are really interesting, interested in kind of advancing things when it comes to port operations on how we can now integrate AI into port operations and create an educational pipeline around this. So this for us, and where we are, being such a port city, is really important to us and, and we think potentially transformational.

Kara Swisher 15:22 What about you, Quinton?

Quinton Lucas 15:24 You know, I think what I would highlight in, in addition to the regular economic development, sports stadiums, all that sort of stuff, we're working on a critical materials campus, and for those who aren't in the critical materials discourse, they had to explain it to me from lab-made diamonds and that sort of thing. You are seeing more of that. Now, of course, there are more critical materials that we have. We have competition with other countries, namely China and others, that have built alliances in Africa, around the world, extracting more places. America's innovation and our opportunity to compete well is where we can manufacture them ourselves. Along our riverfront, we're looking at a really several billion dollar investment long-term. We've been lucky enough to be recipients of a large federal grant lately, associated with the university, which is something that's not happening broadly with a lot of universities now. New grants, new initiatives, alliances with, once again, our senators from Missouri and Kansas, and looking at this part of the country to be key to that research area. I think it is kind of the evolution of where, you know, your town-gown relations need to be. It isn't just having-

Kara Swisher 16:24 Mm-hmm

Quinton Lucas 16:24 ... the university present. It's how does that research actually pay dividends other than just employment, but also really how you're actually-

Kara Swisher 16:31 Attracts people there

Quinton Lucas 16:31 ... building out infrastructure long-term.

Kara Swisher 16:33 Yeah. Because a lot of academics are leaving for other countries too.

Quinton Lucas 16:36 Right.

Kara Swisher 16:37 Uh, Mike?

Speaker 16:38 Uh, yeah, we have a, um, a big linked set of projects we call the Mile High Line, which is seven major projects, uh, that we're building at the same time. Those include new stadiums for the Broncos, new stadium for our women's soccer franchise, the Summit, uh, a new public park, uh, a new redevelopment of our stock show complex. But what's important about these is they're an economic development strategy, they're a climate strategy, they're a housing strategy, and, uh, they're also a transit strategy, right? So what we're doing is we're deliberately, uh... You know, it'll, it'll grow 100,000 jobs. It's a $30 billion investment, so huge economic opportunity for us. But linked to that, we're building all of these sites along, uh, light rail, existing light rail capacity, both on the north and the west side of the city, and we'll build housing units at all these sites. We'll build 20,000 housing units at each, uh, along these seven sites. Uh, and, and so with transit lines, with housing there, and, uh, they are in traditionally under-invested parts of the city. North Denver has been historically African American. West Denver has been historically Latino. Both of them under-invested, so these investments will come disproportionately to places that we haven't invested in before. But what they'll create is not just seven new amazing places where Denverites gather and jobs for the future. They'll create a capacity where you could live in one of these locations with housing that's close to light rail, and you could easily get to the other six locations to work, to fun, to friends, without having to own a car. And so it's the way you take a lot of our mid-sized cities that weren't built like a DC or New York with-

Kara Swisher 18:02 Mm-hmm

Speaker 18:03 ... thousands of miles of underground, um, subways and say you move our cities in that direction by building these hubs, these neighborhoods where folks can live, work, and play, and you connect them.

Kara Swisher 18:12 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 18:12 And that's what helps us grow into the future.

Kara Swisher 18:14 I see. So every episode

Kara Swisher 18:16 we get a question from an outside expert. Uh, here's yours.

Pete Buttigieg 18:20 I'm Pete Buttigieg, better known as Mayor Pete. And when I was mayor of South Bend, I noticed that, uh, lots of mayors generated a lot of wonderful ideas worth stealing. So my question is, what is something where you're maybe quietly copying another mayor's homework to benefit your own city?

Kara Swisher 18:38 That's a good question from another mayor. So, uh, any n- taking any notes from Mayor Mamdani or Lurie or, or whatever. Uh, Quinton, you go first, and then Mike, and then Helena.

Quinton Lucas 18:48 Man, that's, uh, that is a good question. Good to see our friend Mayor Pete.

Kara Swisher 18:51 Yeah.

Quinton Lucas 18:51 Probably on ideas that I'm stealing, uh, I'll go to Mayor Wu in Boston.

Kara Swisher 18:57 Mm-hmm.

Quinton Lucas 18:57 And I think that our communities share an investment, and I know Mayor Johnson just mentioned it, an investment in women's sports and, uh, improvement of women's sports. My city's already built a women's sports stadium. In Boston, they're building an entire campus kind of around, uh, NWSL, their women's soccer league team, really trying to say, "How can we make it so this sport that's more accessible, in many ways more affordable, uh, has more links to arenas, frankly, that are built that more people can use, from high schools to others, and frankly, brands your city as a place that's looking to the expansion of sports, not just the traditional major events? How do we do that well?" So stealing a big chunk of that. The other thing that I think I will always note that we're stealing, you know, the Mayor Mamdani conversation's interesting for mayors, particularly those of us who've been doing it for a while, 'cause all of us probably get tagged every day, and they say, "Why don't you be more like him?"

Kara Swisher 19:47 [laughs] He's like-

Quinton Lucas 19:47 "Oh my God, he's, he jumps in a pool."

Kara Swisher 19:50 Right. [laughs]

Quinton Lucas 19:50 And I say, "Me and Mario Bowser have been doing that for a decade."

Kara Swisher 19:53 Yeah. It's just not... That's right.

Quinton Lucas 19:54 But, uh, you know, I think that-

Pete Buttigieg 19:56 Fully clothed.

Quinton Lucas 19:57 Right. Exactly.

Pete Buttigieg 19:57 Twice, fully clothed.

Kara Swisher 19:58 Yeah.

Quinton Lucas 19:58 It's the way to be now.

Kara Swisher 19:59 That's right. Okay.

Quinton Lucas 20:00 Right? You don't have to be insecure.

Kara Swisher 20:01 Yeah. He really does have a lot of charisma, doesn't he?

Quinton Lucas 20:03 Right. No, I think the idea that we're getting, I get from him in a, in a positive way, is, yeah, how do you continue to update your communication strategy? It is-

Kara Swisher 20:12 Mm-hmm

Quinton Lucas 20:12 ... easy in these jobs to have some level of frustration that says, why aren't they paying attention?

Kara Swisher 20:17 Right.

Quinton Lucas 20:17 Why aren't people engaging with your content in a way-

Kara Swisher 20:19 Mm-hmm

Quinton Lucas 20:19 ... instead of just being saying, "Damn it, I gotta just move to where people are." I think that's something that we all adapt from-

Kara Swisher 20:25 Yeah

Quinton Lucas 20:25 ... from our peers every day.

Kara Swisher 20:26 Yeah. He w- walking around the city that time was... I was like, "That's brilliant," when he walked the whole like-

Quinton Lucas 20:31 Yeah

Kara Swisher 20:31 ... surrounded the city. Uh, Mike?

Speaker 20:34 Um, I, I think, uh, out of two, one of the things I love about this question is this is what mayors talk about when you get together is, you know, we are all about what is the solution you're delivering. And so I say, uh, there's a moment now in politics where most people look at elected leaders as influencers rather than as entrepreneurs. I think mayors are actually entrepreneurs. We have to identify a hard problem, develop a solution, fix it when it doesn't work. And so I think you find a lot of the best innovation happening from mayors, 'cause other electeds are gonna share a great idea for a press conference or a social post. That's not an actual outcome. Um, so for me, it was actually a former mayor, which is, um, the mayor of Houston, Sylvester Turner, uh, who has, who has since passed away. But when I first became mayor, they were really the gold standard for work on homelessness, and so they were the first place I visited to say, "What's working for you?" And one of the ideas we stole from them is they had the idea of closing homeless encampments by geography and then keeping that place permanently closed to future camping. So in a lot of cities instead, you just keep a list of people that might be homeless. And six months ago, you saw John, you took his name and number. Six months later when you have an open unit, you now go to try to call John, who's three burner phones and two locations away from where he was the last time, and these units stay empty. We instead went to the regions where there were an encampment of 50 people, closed that encampment, moved all those people into housing units that we opened, and then permanently closed that block from any future camping. Um, and that as a strategy has really worked for us, and that's how we've been able to now close every large encampment. We haven't had a tent in downtown in more than 18 months, and we won't have them again.

Kara Swisher 22:03 Right.

Speaker 22:03 And so that was a great strategy we stole from Houston.

Kara Swisher 22:06 Right. Okay. That's a great one. Uh, Helena?

Helena Moreno 22:09 Yeah. So on this, also on the homelessness front, taking a look at what Mayor Lurie's obviously been doing, um, I actually met with him, uh, while in DC during the, uh, the, uh, latest Conference of Mayors, uh, an- annual meeting, and sat down with him, and one of the things that he talked about was having, you know, the, the, the concentration of having social workers, uh, out and about offering services, you know, that, that real carrot before there ever was a stick. But then also there kind of needing to be a stick as well, and just the way that he's been able to really transform what's been happening with the homeless situation in, uh, San Francisco. We've started to implement some of those things here, and they so far have proved to be very positive. Uh, I will say this, it's so funny that you're asking this question right now, because during my deputy mayor meeting this morning, one of my deputy mayors actually brought up a, an idea, uh, that, uh, Mayor Mamdani has, and it is about a strike team that goes out to do kind of minor repairs-

Kara Swisher 23:11 He does. I know he does, yeah

Helena Moreno 23:12 ... at different recreational, uh, uh, places throughout New York. And she said it's like, "Oh my gosh, we have been looking at doing something like this. Let's do something similar to what he just suggested." And I'm like, "You know what? Let's go ahead and do that. That's actually a great idea." Because I had recently done a tour of three of our major, uh, parks that we have here in, in New Orleans, and, and it was the minor cosmetic stuff that drove me crazy that wasn't being addressed.

Kara Swisher 23:38 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 23:38 And so because of, of that idea, we're actually moving forward with something very similar,

Helena Moreno 23:43 or will be.

Kara Swisher 23:43 Yeah. And, and, and 'cause people feel like you're actually doing something that they can actually physically see. It's actually was, is brilliant. And then he publicizes them, which is important. So one, one of the things that mayors are having trouble with, and also governors and everyone else, is the back- public backlash to AI data centers. I recently talked to Lansing Mayor Andy Schor, who supported the construction of an environmentally sustainable data center. It had all the... It checked all the boxes, and he was trying in what would be considered the right way, but it still failed because citizens did not want it, period. Even the good one, right? So when it comes to data centers, how are you thinking about the trade-off between potential economic gains and environmental impact? And I know there's a lot going on in Louisiana, but every state has one of these. I interviewed someone from Utah from, uh, where they got called communists for not wanting them. Today, President Trump is doing the same thing. You're either stupid and poor, or you accept data centers, which seems not the way to go on this one. So Quinton first, then Mike, and then Helena.

Quinton Lucas 24:39 Data centers, there are probably two political issues that impact cities sometimes, but not always, that have changed more dramatically in the last five years than anything else. Data centers and Israel, to, to be quite honest. Things that before a data center could be approved, you didn't have that much drama. You had a few usually extreme environmental activists. Now it is left and right. They are voting out their city councils in connection with it. So prospectively, what we're working on is this. Obviously, you know, you try to come up with some level of balance, which is that you're not looking at high utility usage, particularly impact on water, other environmental standards in connection with it. But the other thing that I think we need to make an incredible pivot on, and I think the rhetoric politically has not caught up yet, and the president's comments today are not helping with that, is to share why it is actually important that we have data centers, the importance of AI long term. The answer alone of just, "Hey, citizens, you're gonna make a lot of money out of it," they don't really believe us, and they're not really believing that impact. And I think that's fair in some ways because they're not seeing an immediate quality of life change even if we can pay our bills a little bit better. One has to actually be at the forefront of explaining these are a reality. They are a type of business that is less polluting than probably your industrial factories-

Kara Swisher 25:56 Mm-hmm

Quinton Lucas 25:56 ... that people still often look for. I think a discussion as to the jobs is interesting, right? So you do need to emphasize the construction jobs, how a cluster can be additive to your community long term, even if each data center obviously isn't employing 3,000 people a day. And I think that frankly, having that real conversation rather than, "It's big, it's here, you must love this global firm, and just deal with it, people of rural Nebraska," that is having huge backlash now. I think it only gets worse into the-

Kara Swisher 26:26 Yep

Quinton Lucas 26:26 ... 2026 cycle.

Kara Swisher 26:27 Absolutely. Mike?

Speaker 26:29 Yeah, we, uh, put a moratorium on any data centers in Denver-

Kara Swisher 26:32 Mm-hmm

Speaker 26:32 ... about five months ago before this got as hot as it is now. And I think it was the right decision for a number of reasons. One is, you know, there are real concerns about water usage. You know, we're in a drought state, and so we can't spend a quarter of a million gallons of water a day on one data center. Um, uh, there are concerns about cost of electricity in a place where that's the second or third biggest bill that people pay each month. On affordability, that matters. And the third was on, on noise impact. Um, and so what we found... A- a- and they w- they didn't exist in our zoning code, so people could just buy a plot of land and suddenly build a data center next to your house the way they could build a single-family home. And so for all those reasons, it was right to stop. I, I think there are good solutions out here to both solving the impact on electricity rates that Quinton mentioned, the impact on water. But normally what you're gonna want to do to make that work is you're gonna wanna have, uh, significant geographic space where you can build self-contained systems. You wanna have solar panels that you can use to power these. You wanna have closed loop water systems. Uh, and these AIs and these data centers do not have to be in the middle of city centers to serve city centers. And so there are a lot of rural communities that would benefit tremendously from this infrastructure build-out. I think what we'd love to do, I think, at the Conference of Mayors with, uh, with you and, uh, Helena, is think about how can we make this an urban-rural partnership where we can say a lot of rural communities would love to have these. Urban communities commit to, to being consumers and buying a lot of the, uh, the capacity that's generated. But I think it's not gonna make sense to site a lot of these in the middle of dense residential neighborhoods in major American cities, and I think that's not the path forward.

Kara Swisher 27:59 Right. I would agree with you. Helena?

Helena Moreno 28:01 Yeah, we've got a, a temporary ban here in the city of New Orleans, uh, until the City Planning Commission finishes a s- a s- a study on, uh, data centers. But I do think that more than likely the city council will move toward a, uh, a moratorium. And one of the main reasons for that is that we have a pretty fragile grid in the city of New Orleans already. Obviously, that's been, uh, proven, uh, over the last few years based on what's happened with, uh, major hurricanes here in the city of New Orleans. And we're, we're making major upgrades to our grid, but it's still pretty fragile. We're also the very end of the line as well. So I think because of that, there'll likely be a, a moratorium. But if you take a look at outside of New Orleans in the state of Louisiana, the governor is pushing to be like, I think the, the data center, uh, capital. And, uh, uh, as you know, the, in Richland Parish, there's a new $50 billion, uh, data center that's being built. Uh, New York Times reported that, uh, apparently it received potentially up to $10 billion worth of incentives. I, I can't tell you whether that's true or not due to the fact that there were so many NDAs and lack of transparency around this project. And I think that level of, of lack of transparency is what's also creating even more fear and more f- more doubt with the public-

Kara Swisher 29:16 Yeah

Helena Moreno 29:16 ... that they don't really know what's going on, and they don't-

Kara Swisher 29:18 Mm-hmm

Helena Moreno 29:18 ... feel like they're being told the whole story.

Kara Swisher 29:20 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 29:20 And they worry about what could be the real consequences coming.

Kara Swisher 29:24 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 29:24 When you're not transparent and you don't explain the full story-

Kara Swisher 29:27 Yeah

Helena Moreno 29:27 ... somebody else is gonna tell the story for you.

Kara Swisher 29:29 Yep. Absolutely.

Helena Moreno 29:30 And so, so I think that that's what's been, been really happening.

Kara Swisher 29:33 Yeah.

Helena Moreno 29:33 Um, and so here in, in Louisiana, it is becoming a, a very heated issue, a very divisive issue.

Kara Swisher 29:41 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 29:41 And while we're a little bit more behind than maybe some of the other states as far as, like, the big opposition, but I, I do feel it building and building and building.

Kara Swisher 29:49 It is.

Helena Moreno 29:50 Um-

Kara Swisher 29:50 It's, it's a proxy for other things about AI.

Helena Moreno 29:52 Yeah. Right. Right

Kara Swisher 29:52 You know, it's a pr- it's a big, uh, billionaire behavior or, you know, Elon Musk dancing with a, with a chainsaw. It has... It, it's all wrapped up in so much of the same, of the same thing, yeah.

Helena Moreno 30:04 It's this whole, you know, this is what's gonna be here, and it's going to be, and we're not gonna tell you about it until after the fact, and this is coming to your community, and whether you like it or not. It's that kind of approach that's really causing people to be very fearful and skeptical about data centers.

Kara Swisher 30:22 So let's, let's actually shift to housing a little bit. Quinton, you sponsored the Kansas City's first housing trust fund as a councilman back in 2018 and later ran as the housing mayor. Um, talk about, a little bit about, you know, because there's been questions about its effectiveness. It's very difficult to do housing in cities right now, and we're starting to see a real estate downturn for much of the country, not here in San Francisco, but other places. So i- is it actually increasing the stock of affordable housing? 'Cause that's really the point.

Quinton Lucas 30:50 Uh, it is. It is. So it was a whole suite of policies I passed, uh, as a city councilman, uh, that had absolutely no money behind them. And so what I've been able to do in the near seven years I've been in this position is get real investment with it. You know, the first step was to change what housing policy was, not just in my city, but in America. If you knew municipal housing agencies before that point, you basically knew that they were HUD pass-through agencies. They would take a smaller and smaller amount of the community development block grant, give it to usually the same, exact same organizations every year, then wake up, like Mike mentioned, and say, "Oh my God, we have a homeless problem. We don't have enough resources." The step one goal was to say housing itself is economic development, not just in suburban greenfields, not just in rehabs in places where there is the market set for it, but also with real density in the American city. And importantly, it doesn't have to just be housing that's incredibly high-end, incredibly expensive. So for us, the goal all along has been how do we gap fill in terms of, you know, delivering more units, putting them at an affordable level, but not a ridiculously affordable level. I'm very sensitive to the fact the American city can't just be the home of the uber rich and then those who are incredibly destitute. So continuing to try to build that same sort of middle class idea that you've seen in the American suburban communities for some time was key to what our trust fund is doing. Attracting private investment being another part of it, getting contributions in connection with it. We don't have a mile high line, but with our new baseball stadium, there are huge contributions coming from the Kansas City Royals, for example, to housing development and infrastructure near the stadium itself. So housing has become almost like a core departmental effort like public works, like police, and others.

Kara Swisher 32:35 Mm-hmm.

Quinton Lucas 32:35 It's gonna be around to stay, and the responsible cities are figuring out how to generate housing, importantly on the private side by removing barriers to housing-

Kara Swisher 32:44 Mm-hmm

Quinton Lucas 32:44 ... making sure your regulation is smart and reasonable. And on the public side, not building huge housing projects. I'm not there yet on social housing, which some activists want, but also, but really making sure how do we fill gaps that for too long have kept new housing from being constructed.

Kara Swisher 32:58 Right, which is the s- which is bureaucratic. So Mike, housing in Denver has been the focus of your administration too. You said there's been a record 45% reduction on sheltered homelessness since you took office. Some excerpts caution the survey data cited as variable, so it may not be the whole picture. That's according to reporting in the Dever- Uh, the Denver N- Denverite. Uh, first explain the talk, the scope of the homeless issue there and, and, and how you, when you talk about 45% reduction. Where do people go once they're moved off the street? You did note this, moving people immediately from encampments-

Speaker 33:30 Yeah

Kara Swisher 33:30 ... into nearby housing.

Speaker 33:32 Uh, yeah. I mean, our, um, our federally documented number is now a, a 64% drop in street homelessness, and so we did this through a couple of avenues, as you said. The first is you have to bring on a large scale of transitional housing units that you can build quickly and cheaply. So we brought on about 1,000 units of transitional housing. That looks like buying hotels, building tiny home villages, doing them from $25,000 to $100,000 a door and doing them quickly. We brought them on in less than six months, 1,000 units. Then it's going to where the encampments are, closing those encampments and keeping them closed, and then geographically spreading this parts of the city that have no camping. So think of the like concentric circles that start in the middle of the city. Each time we close an encampment, we move you to housing. That block becomes closed. You go out farther and farther until the whole city is no longer, uh, has encampments. And then the third is decentralizing services so they're available at each of these transitional housing sites. So we have mental health support, addiction support, workforce training, long-term housing, 'cause often what you do is you concentrate all of the services for folks that are homeless in your downtown, and then you're surprised that your downtown is full of folks who are homeless. Um, what we've done is actually deconcentrated those, so they can get access to these services anywhere, and that's helped us move 9,000 people off the street into transitional housing. But more importantly, has moved 8,000 of those folks into permanent housing. Um, and so I think that's been the key, but it took that combination of, of those strategies when taking the political risk to say, yes, we are gonna open eight new transitional housing sites. I did 60 town halls around the city. Folks weren't always happy about the idea of opening sites next to them. But once we opened them, we were able to close encampments, uh, make historic drops in homelessness and crime, and then make sure the folks in their neighborhood had access to services. And those neighborhoods actually saw reductions in crime, not expansions. That was the key for delivering something that was a win for the folks that were experiencing homelessness and a win for the neighbors who wanna have sidewalks and streets they can walk their daughter on and still feel safe.

Kara Swisher 35:28 [gentle music] Support for this show comes from Rippling. Imagine you just found out your sales team is at risk for missing quota. No need to panic. Just ask Rippling AI. Since it's built on your real-time people and business data, Rippling AI can pull metrics from Rippling and Salesforce into a meeting-ready dashboard showing quota attainment, head count trajectory, and monthly revenue to quota by region. In seconds, you can see exactly what's behind your quota risk and fix it before it's missed. Question answered, action taken, crisis averted. So when you have critical business questions that need answers, don't just file a ticket and wait weeks for an outdated report. Describe what you need and have Rippling AI build it instantly from your live people and business data, whether it's a dashboard with detailed charts or automated workflows with the right triggers, conditions, and approvals. Ready to rule your business? Head to Rippling.ai/kara to get only AI built to give you full visibility and take complex actions across your entire organization. That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-G.A-I/kara, K-A-R-A. Sign up for exclusive access today. So The New York Times recently reported how billionaire venture capitalist Joe Lonsdale, whom I happen to know, and his Cicero Institute are shaping federal housing policy away from housing first approach and towards a more forced treatment of substance abuse or mental illness. At least 21 states have considered Cicero-backed homelessness policies, including Missouri, and 16 states have passed them. Um, Helena, what do you make of this approach, and how does this federal policy actually shape what you're able to do in your own cities? 'Cause, you know, drug, drug use is a big part of this, and mental, mental health issues are a big part of this, as anyone who lives in a big city with a homeless problem knows very intimately.

Helena Moreno 37:12 Yeah. It... Y- yeah, the, the, the forced piece.

Kara Swisher 37:15 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 37:15 And we also just had a, uh, a Louisiana law pass this past legislative session where beginning in 2027, if essentially you don't accept this kind of forced piece, that it's, like, y- jail time. It's, it's you're, you're now in, in, in jail. So look, overall, I mean, for us, our, our main approach, and maybe part of it I'm-- I guess maybe I'm stealing from, from Mike, is that, one, uh, we wanna get you, of course, off the street, and if you need a shelter space, we do have a low-barrier shelter. But to Mike's point, uh, many of our services are centralized around downtown, and I'm currently working on this whole new transformation of, of downtown with kind of ex- an expansion to our, our Smoothie King center area, which is right next to our Superdome, a new city hall. Uh, the old Charity Hospital is gonna be redone by, by Tulane University. So this whole transformation is coming, yet all of our homeless services are right there, right in the middle of downtown, which, to Mike's point, of course, then why are we wondering why all of the, the homeless folks are w- all downtown? So really finding another location for our low-barrier shelter. But then at the same time, it's the housing piece. It seems that we've gotten a lot better at finding people housing, but not, not doing a great job in the providing people services once they are housed. And so you can, you can have someone who is homeless now get into housing, but if you're not providing them with the right level of support when it comes to potentially, uh, drug treatment or when it comes to, uh, you know, helping and, and assistance in transportation and, and jobs and, and job training, or potentially mental health services, well then more than likely, those who you have now put into housing will likely end up back out on the streets. And so that's our real focus right now, on what can we do to ensure that once we house someone, that they stay housed? Um, and so that, that's what we're focusing on now. Um, with us it's a, it's a little bit of a tricky situation because the state has, uh, decided to be the ones to submit to carry out homeless services essentially for our region, which is really a four parish, we don't have counties here, but parishes, four-parish region here in our area. Um, and so, you know, that'll be, uh, an interesting development for sure.

Kara Swisher 39:37 How do you... Qu- Quinton and Mike, very briefly, how do you feel about this forced idea?

Quinton Lucas 39:41 Yeah, I mean, I think a few things that I would say first. Uh, I mean, the hardest part of housing, which we never start on, it's the same challenge with crime, is that you're actually dealing with human beings. If these were widgets, it would be great, right? And if we could just say, "We'll develop this, we'll put it in the different spaces, it's all going to work out well."

Kara Swisher 39:59 Mm-hmm.

Quinton Lucas 39:59 And frankly, what we have to do and deliver is actually coming up with curated solutions that really relate and align with the people that we're dealing with each day.

Kara Swisher 40:07 Mm-hmm.

Quinton Lucas 40:07 So forcing folks, look, it, it has its merits, and I don't pretend to speak to everything in the California situation. I think at certain times you need a little bit of a hammer to suggest to someone, "No, you need to go to services. You need to do some steps and work." But if it is too much of that, you go back to what I think were incredibly unworkable solutions of the past that are really just streaming people from place to place. The real solution for the places that are working, and frankly it's violent crime, it's nuisance crime, and it's in homelessness policy now, the cities that are doing the best are those that have been investing the most in broad-based, wrapped around- wrap-around services. The softer touches, usually used in a pejorative sense, are the ones that are delivering better. And when you look at whether it's San Francisco or frankly small-town Kansas, right, the folks that are actually telling people, "Here are the services. Here's a long-term path. This is what you can get if you actually align with us," I think are going to continue to see better results rather than simply saying, "We're clearing everybody out. Things will just be perfect tomorrow," something that I think Texas continues to try to compel that doesn't work in all of its cities in the same way that Houston's program worked in lifting folks.

Kara Swisher 41:16 Mm-hmm. Mike?

Speaker 41:17 Uh, yeah, I have strong feelings about this 'cause I, I think this is not just a, this is not an ideological debate that you're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts on this one, and what we know is it factually does not work as well to try to force folks to get treatment before housing. 'Cause here's what-- W- while we know that mental health and addiction can cause homelessness, we know that homelessness profoundly causes mental health and addiction, which is, you could literally-- You know, I've talked to doctors who will say, "If I were to design a perfect drug to help you survive homelessness, you'd need something that helps you stay up all night and be alert in case you're gonna get jumped, that helps you be immune to cold, and helps you go long stretches without eating." That is essentially what fentanyl does. It is a homelessness survival drug. And so to s- the, the reason why you wanna get them into housing first is you stabilize and then allow you to focus on that addiction. It is like asking someone to start physical therapy before you've closed the open wound on the side of their leg, right? Like, you have to first be able to triage it. And by the way, for taxpayers, it's vastly more expensive because to try to go and get to someone on a street corner where they're still living in a tent and talk about job training, our, our social workers used to spend 75% of their time just trying to find the person to deliver the service 'cause you couldn't find them day to day. Once you have them housed, we can now bring in job training, bring in addiction support, bring in mental health services in a stable environment where they're open to receive them. It's gonna be poorly spent taxpayer money if you do it the other way.

Kara Swisher 42:36 Yeah, homelessness does cause mental illness for many people. You can see it in San Francisco. It's just so-

Speaker 42:40 So finally, I always say if you don't think it's the case, let me know whether or not your drinking habits in- increased during COVID or not.

Kara Swisher 42:46 Yes, yes.

Speaker 42:46 It turns out minor mental health cra- minor stresses adds huge mental health and addiction changes in behavior.

Kara Swisher 42:51 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 42:51 Now try living outdoors in Jan- in January in Denver and see-

Kara Swisher 42:54 Mm-hmm

Speaker 42:54 ... if that adds to your stress.

Kara Swisher 42:55 Right,

Kara Swisher 42:56 right. So l- let's talk, it's, uh, sort of it's not related, but it, immigration 'cause it does bring more people into the cities. New York Times reported last week that immigration arrests rose to record highs this summer, and ICE is increasingly targeting people with no criminal records. The Department of Homeland Security launched an enforcement operation in New Orleans last December, and state Republicans have criticized the city's sanctuary policies. Helena, you signed an executive order barring city agencies from entering into new partnerships with ICE. What are the challenges of pushing back as a city when your state government is largely aligned with the federal approach, and what form of immigration enforcement does make sense for New Orleans?

Helena Moreno 43:33 Well, I'll say, uh, this. Um, this was really about doing the right thing. Um, also just a little bit of my background, I was born in Mexico. My father is, uh, from Mexico, and we came to this country because we wanted, you know, better opportunities. Uh, we came to this country, uh, legally, but I, I certainly understand why people come to this country, um, to, to have better lives for themselves and for, and for their families. And so overall, what we started to see here in the city of New Orleans, and why I very quickly had to have a news conference and take action, is because what was happening in our city was that people, particularly people with brown skin, were being targeted. Some of them were even American citizens, chased down in, uh, streets, maybe not in New Orleans, but right in our region in neighboring parishes, and nobody was saying anything. And so that's why it's like here in the city of New Orleans we're speaking up. Not to mention that here in the city of New Orleans, it also very much impacted us economically. You had our, our very, uh, wonderful restaurants here in the city of New Orleans who couldn't get workers. Our hotels couldn't get workers. And so, and that was happening really across our city. So we pushed back and, uh, ultimately, we pushed back in a way, and I guess our messaging was, was where it needed to be, that eventually this Operation Catahoula Crunch, as they called it, uh, went away and went to, to other areas. And I also believe that they weren't able to get the numbers that they thought they would. I can't even remember what the numbers were, but they claimed that they were gonna get thousands and thousands of people, uh, in just our little area, which was impossible to begin with.

Kara Swisher 45:14 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 45:14 You know, but once again, this wasn't really, uh, about, you know... I, I really didn't think too much on this one about, like, the political ramifications or what were the consequences.

Kara Swisher 45:24 Mm-hmm.

Helena Moreno 45:24 This was really about what I personally believe was the right thing to do to protect my city.

Kara Swisher 45:30 Mm-hmm. So Quinton, you were voc- also vocal about your opposition to propose ICE detention center in Kansas City earlier this year. The city passed a five-year moratorium on non-city run detention centers. Uh, have there been legal challenges to the ban and, and how, how, how do you think about approaching immigration enforcement more broadly?

Quinton Lucas 45:47 You know, so first of all, no, we did not sustain legal challenges. We anticipated it, but let's just remember what ICE was trying to do. Basically, they were trying to build gigantic concentration camps. Any space that had a ton of area, they were suggesting 10,000 people being in basically airplane hangars. We looked up the studies. There were gonna be, like, eight restroom facilities within it, i.e. eight toilets for all of those people. It was gonna be grossly inhumane. We looked to use classic planning laws and ordinances in the city to stand in the way, and I think that was an important fight. It was an important fight that other cities waged. I would like to hope it contributed to the demise of Kristi Noem, which I think has been a positive for our country. In terms of immigration policy, I think we need to make a, a few things clear. One, yes, good, structured, ordered immigration policy is important for any type of country. Two, the Trump administration is not in any way trying to actually do that. Instead, it is strikingly the politics of fear, and in some ways the greatest harm itself are the schoolchildren in my city and probably Mike and Helena's, who were scared of going to school, the people being scared to be picked up, the politics of fear, right? The living with fear that so many people were dealing with, and I think that it is okay for us, if you're a progressive, if you're a Democrat, hell, if you're a Republican, to say, "Yeah, I'm not trying to scare the living daylights out of everyone. I'm trying to make sure that laws are followed. We'll do it in an orderly way," but mass shipments of people, mass shipments of people based on look, based on aesthetic, based on phenotype, accent, or language they're speaking, is fundamentally anti-American. That's why we stood against it. That's why if we're tasked with doing it again, we-- I would do all the exact steps again, and I'll make this final point, right? There's this link to public safety and immigrants. You know who I'm scared of the most in Kansas City? Other Kansas Citians. They are a lot more likely to shoot me, to rob me, to do all types of bad stuff to me and my family. I mean, as our city's crime is going down, this, this farce, this farcical thought that immigrants are creating a greater threat in our communities is totally disproven. That's why I think you've seen all of us be active with it.

Kara Swisher 47:55 So, uh, in Colorado, um, a federal judge dismissed the Trump administration sanctuary city lawsuit against Denver and Colorado. The DOJ is appealing, of course, 'cause that's what they, they work for President Trump. As of 2024, Denver had welcomed over 40,000 migrants, uh, reportedly the most per capita. Um, Mike, you have called it a solvable crisis. So when... Talk about the DOJ lawsuit, and I will note Colorado has a history of, um, during World War II, Ralph, uh, Carr, who's a, a hero in Colorado and across-

Helena Moreno 48:25 He is

Kara Swisher 48:25 ... should be across the country, defended the rights of American citizens of Japanese descent and allowed their, a- a- and allowed their voluntary re- relocation to Colorado, but resisted mass incarceration. Um, and he was, he, he lost because of this, but what a hero. Um, talk a little bit about, uh, that, the situation you have there.

Speaker 48:47 Yeah, the way I approach this, Kara, is I always say, like, name for me the five great American cities who have built their brand on being anti-immigrant.

Kara Swisher 48:56 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 48:57 You can't name one-

Kara Swisher 48:58 No

Speaker 48:58 ... because those cities are forgotten now. Uh, every great American city has built their brand on b- on being pro-immigrant and pro-growth, and so we are unabashedly pro-immigrant, whether they are coming from Cleveland or California or Caracas or Mexico City, we're, uh, we want folks that are gonna come and help build the city, uh, and that's how we've approached it. The second thing that's also true is there is a real role for partnership with federal agencies around enforcement, um, on what we've always said should be the priority, which is violent criminals, right? Where there are violent criminals, we also don't care where they come from. We will hunt them down, we will arrest them, and we will charge them. Um, and so very early on when we had any concerns about gang activity, we had a multi-jurisdictional task force that we operated with to identify any potential gang or cartel members. We arrested them, we charged them, we deported them, and that's what Americans want. American want-- Americans want a hardworking, uh, construction worker or third-grade teacher or barista to be able to live next door to them and pay taxes, and they also wanna make sure there aren't violent criminals living next door to them, and I think the answer is for cities and states to do both of those. That's what Denver has done, and that's why we've, we've both been able to be a welcoming city and see huge drops in crime, and we think that is what disproves the lie that immigrants drive crime. Immigrants can drive economic growth if you do the regular good work that cities should do to enforce the laws on crime.

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Kara Swisher 51:30 So I'm gonna finish up by shifting to elections and gerrymandering and, and the elections coming up, um, and voting rights. A l- landmark Supreme Court ruling this spring struck down Louisiana's second, as you noted, majority Black congressional district and decided it was unconstitutional, uh, racial gerrymander. Um, this was seen by some legal experts as the latest blow in the series of efforts to weaken the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Helena, the affected district doesn't include New Orleans, but talk about the impact of, of voters and representation in Louisiana going forward to the midterms.

Helena Moreno 52:01 Yeah. Well, it, it didn't impact New Orleans, but it alm- it almost did, uh, because at the, at the time when we knew we were losing one, we didn't know which one. And, you know, just a reminder, New Orleans has always been kind of the, the s- the stronghold Democratic, uh, place here in, in the state of Louisiana, and, uh, it was because of a, a really hard-fought effort by our delegation in Baton Rouge that, that, that at least we were able to keep that stronghold here. But unfortunately, the state did lose that second congressional seat, and this very much, I mean, was such a, a blow to, uh, the entire state. Uh, we had huge crowds show up at the Capitol begging legislators to, to figure out that path to draw to, which they could have, and unfortunately, you know, that didn't happen. My concern is that because of steps like this, that people feel so disenfranchised that it actually makes them think, "Why should I, why should I even go vote? Obviously my voice doesn't even matter. Look at all these people who went to the Capitol. Nobody ever listens to them. Why-- my vote-- Why, why do I even wanna be engaged in this process?" And I always turn that around and say, "No, this is exactly why you need to speak up." Because ultimately, it was members of the legislature who made this decision and made the decision as to w- how they were gonna draw the districts. Your vote matters on who is elected to the legislature. Your vote matters in every single one of the elections, but we can only make a difference if we actually show up. And so I just k- keep pushing that message, that I get it that you're upset. You may feel disenfranchised because of, of what happened, but this actually shouldn't be something that makes you feel diminished. It should be something that now lights a fire within you to really get out there and vote and, and bring others out there to vote as well.

Kara Swisher 53:50 Yeah, absolutely. But in, in Missouri last fall, Republicans in the legislature also passed new House, uh, districts backed by President Trump that weakened Democratic voting power. Quin- uh, Quinton, you said, uh, that redistricting efforts like this are ultimately unpopular with voters, and as, uh, Helena was just saying, will backfire against Republicans. Um, what do you make of the citizen-led efforts to challenge a new congressional map in Missouri?

Quinton Lucas 54:17 I think there are a few things that we're seeing as a trend, but one of which is probably the worst of all, which is people don't wanna even have to have contests anymore at all This isn't about protecting incumbents. This is about actually just taking all potential competition off the map, and I do think that that anchors people. They want representation. A lot of the people who are now in the congressional district I'm sitting in right now, who are rural Missourians who may not love this mayor, sadly, are people who are saying, "We don't want to be overburdened with your resources in the city. We don't want even a Republican who's spending their time thinking about how we build up your community alone." And so this is something, poll after poll, even in this part of the country, you're seeing people say, "No, I, I don't subscribe to it. I actually did not think at least this part of the system itself was broken previously, and I don't want more Washington control of my politics." These were maps that were drawn by allies of the president. They were sent to largely weak-kneed governors around the country. They had these faux hearings at state legislatures, and then they are obliterating seniority for particularly Black members throughout the country. And the, and then the final dumb thing is this. We have a congressman, you can have your beefs with people being around too long, but has seniority of 26 years built up in the US House. He will be replaced, you know, by, like, a TV guy or another guy who I barely even know. But nonetheless, right, is it, are we trying to get resources for our states or are we just trying to play political games? That's why I think people understand it. They understand it's not good for Missouri. It may be good for partisan politics, but it's not about our communities long term.

Kara Swisher 55:51 Well, speaking of that, uh, Mike, at the time when the president has threatened to nationalize elections, which I think is the goal here, um, instead of localize them and make false claims about election security and as of when we're taping this Monday has attempted to restrict mail-in voting. Um, is there a role for a mayor like you, uh, in Denver and, or local, any local officials helping prepare your cities for November?

Speaker 56:16 Oh, we are doing that. And first of all, you know, vote by mail, I helped pass it when I was in the state senate, has been a tremendous, uh, win for Colorado. We're one of the highest turnout vote, uh, s- state in the country 'cause people can vote easily. They can mail it in. They can turn it in. And so that ought to be the idea is to make it easier to vote. And so, uh, in Denver, yeah, we'll work with our clerk and recorder together, and we've done tabletop exercise to prepare for what happens if they try to deploy ICE troops in predominantly Latino areas of the city, as Helena was talking about in New Orleans. We've there said we won't allow them to do it. We'll intervene. We'll stop it. Um, what will happen if they try to be able to cast doubt? I think what they want to do is cast doubt on the election either way. 'Cause if they win the election, they can claim that it was fair, and if they lose the election, they can claim that it was rigged. Uh, the challenge is they are doing all the things that would try to make you distrust an election, things that local cities and states had never done before. And so we think there's a lot of trust in cities and states to run these elections, and that's hard-earned r- trust. Uh, the federal government has tried to destroy that, and I think the, the goal is to sow fear and get people to stay home. But we actually in Colorado created, you know, independent, uh, administration of the designing of congressional districts that's nonpartisan, and we ha- have designed them to create competitive seats. Now, that wasn't popular from the, some folks in the Democratic Party at a time where we could have gerrymandered and taken almost all the seats in the state. What we've done is created competitive seats, and I think you'll see Democrats win two of those seats back this cycle 'cause as the public moves, those seats will move with them.

Kara Swisher 57:44 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 57:44 I think that's how it should work.

Kara Swisher 57:45 So both the other y- uh, mayors, Helena and-

Helena Moreno 57:48 Mm-hmm

Kara Swisher 57:49 ... uh, Quinton, you are, you will deploy forces against if they come to the polls? I mean, that could be ugly, correct?

Helena Moreno 57:59 Look, I mean, we don't know what, what could potentially be coming. I mean, I think we need to, like, plan out for all different types of scenarios. But I will say this. On the, on the kind of the, the confusion piece, uh, that, that's being put out there, that happened here in Louisiana. Uh, you know, we've gone from always having open primaries to all of a sudden a, a closed primary. And it seems like what's been happening is that based on who potentially could have the advantage, they'll decide whether they're gonna be open primaries or closed primaries, which is, which led to significant confusion among voters. They'd show up at the polls, and they couldn't understand why they couldn't vote for the candidate who they wanted to vote for, and then they were given these r- these random forms about voting for whether the Democratic side or the independ- or Democratic side or Republican side, but you had to declare, but you weren't really switching parties. You were just having... Oh my God. Like, it was crazy, and people were freaked out. They had no idea what was happening. They thought, like, every polling location had gone crazy. And, you know, people feel like maybe the results would've been different if there would've been either more information or kept it open primary. But this level of confusion a- that's being created is being done so that certain candidates win. And so that, to me, is one of the most problematic things that we're seeing, that we're seeing on the national level and we're also seeing in certain states as well.

Kara Swisher 59:27 Mm-hmm. And Quinton?

Quinton Lucas 59:28 Will we have people at the polls? The answer is yes. Now, it's not necessarily different armed forces fighting each other, but to the point raised before, yes, can we provide information? Absolutely. That's within our rights. Can we let people know what they're voting on? Can we let people know they don't need a different form of identification, uh, at this election? Absolutely right. And can we file every damn lawsuit possible as the governor in our state or other forces look to try to find ways to make it harder to get to the ballot? Absolutely. Look, the, the goal is to scare people from coming there. It is to sow confusion before. Our goal is to stand there, it's what mayors do every day, and say, "Nope, I'm gonna be your leader for it. We're gonna make sure you can go vote. We'll stand there for you, and the full force of the city with whatever it can do can make sure you can get your vote cast."

Kara Swisher 1:00:13 There's also issues within the Democratic Party happening, um, uh, different, different things happening. In Colorado, Democratic socialist Milad Kiros won the primary this summer. Earlier this year, Lisa Calderón, a progressive Democrat, announced she'll be running for Denver mayor in April 20- uh, two, uh, 2027 election against you, Mike. And Democratic Socialists of America just announced their endorsement of City Council Member Shontel Lewis, who's also running against you. Um, what is happening with the... How are you thinking about the tensions within the, uh, party in your own city and state?

Speaker 1:00:45 Well, I think a lot of what you saw in our primary here is what you're seeing around the country, is people are deeply frustrated and furious with Washington. They feel like all they hear from Washington is, like, dysfunction or disaster. Either you're cutting some sort of core benefits, or you're getting us into wars that are driving up our cost of gas, or, uh, you're suing the city to drop our assault weapons ban. It's just constant chaos. And so I think people want dramatic change in Washington, and I understand that, and I agree with that. Um, I think, uh, running a city is a very different thing. People expect a result to be delivered here on the ground in Denver. I think people feel like Denver is delivering on that. They feel confident that the city's heading in the right direction, that we're seeing big drops in homelessness and crime. Uh, but I think, uh, that's what you see acting out now, and I think what we want is, is both. We want a city where we can have, you know, free markets that drive innovation and create jobs, and also a place where we can have strong safety nets that support all the gaps in those markets to make sure people are cared for. And so I think we've come out with a plan to do childcare for all. We're focusing on a plan to add 20,000 units of housing. So I think we're gonna find, uh, that Denver residents believe we can do both. We can fight for change in Washington, and we can make sure we deliver results here at home in Denver.

Kara Swisher 1:01:53 Quinton, when you, uh, when you were appointed president of the Democratic Mayors Association, you said you want Democratic mayors to lead the party's national message, uh, heading into 2026. How can you do that with, with, with the strife within the Democratic Party itself? Um, what, what, what did you learn from 2024 that informs how you think about Democratic messaging at a state and local level?

Quinton Lucas 1:02:13 Uh, it whiffs far too often, and I'm not doing this to be a party pessimist, but I ended up being a surrogate. I was like surrogate number 1,200.

Kara Swisher 1:02:21 Mm-hmm.

Quinton Lucas 1:02:21 So if Gavin Newsom would cancel, they'd send me to New Hampshire.

Kara Swisher 1:02:23 [laughs]

Quinton Lucas 1:02:24 And they're like, "Who the hell is this guy?"

Kara Swisher 1:02:25 Yeah.

Quinton Lucas 1:02:25 And we ended up having a great chat.

Kara Swisher 1:02:27 Mm-hmm.

Quinton Lucas 1:02:27 Because, I mean, look, and I don't wanna be the clichéd mayors get stuff done guy. But really, we deal with every type of group you're talking about. We have a police union, by and large, in every one of our cities, so we're dealing with, like, MAGA right-wing people. We're dealing with very active left-wing socialist folks, and all the causes in between, and we still balance a budget at the end of every year. We still find a way to address core issues. I do think that in narrative-making, actually having successes is a big part of what is essential for a party going forward. President Trump, good, bad, or indifferent, acts like things that shouldn't even be successes are. He's taking credit for the violent crime drop in cities around America, which is astonishing for those of us who run cities. He's taking credit any time that there's a actual positive economic indicator, which isn't enough lately. But I do think that in the same way that if you go back 25, 30 years, Democratic governors are really central to messaging of how good common sense governing can happen. I think you have strong leaders in every state, including every swing state. I look at my friend Cavalier Johnson in Wisconsin, right? You're looking at Mary Sheffield in Detroit. The types of mayors and people that can cut through messaging in all of those spaces and say, "No, Democrats aren't scary. We are getting things done. Cities on the whole are rising. They're safer than they were a decade ago. They are going better." And I think that is why we need to be central, at least to some sort of message crafting. The other thing that we don't have the fortune of doing is the navel-gazing that Washington Democrats spend their time on. There are issues sometimes I'll go to a meeting I don't even know about, right? I'm like, "What the hell are you guys talking about? Your whole time is spent on it." We actually have to make decisions fairly quickly. I think that there is that, and my final point on this is we get a lot of reps, and maybe it's not national press. But I'll tell you, gumshoe local reporters that have every reason to try to make their big career story, like bringing you down, actually train you pretty well. And so I think that we are used to answering questions. We are used to actually explaining issues and building a city brand long-term.

Kara Swisher 1:04:25 Um, I had Ben Wikler on, political organizer and former Wisconsin Democratic chair, and he talked about strengthening local organizing, prioritizing down-ballot races as essential to winning national elections. So in this same vein, what... How do you, how do you do that as a mayor? What, what, what concrete thing could be done to strengthen the party at the local level? Very similar to the question I asked Quinton.

Speaker 1:04:48 I mean, I, I think it's about mobilizing people for things that they wanna fight for, as opposed to things they need to fight against. And I think that the things closest to their home are the things they're gonna be most excited about. Uh, I, I think the most powerful change we can bring in cities is what you fundamentally see happening with Trump, is if people expect something to get fixed and it doesn't get fixed, after a while, you can either believe it doesn't get fixed because your neighbors are the problem, and they're what's screwing it up, or democracy is the problem, and that's what's screwing it up. Trump has tried to convince Americans to believe both of those arguments. The way you win that argument is not by fighting back on the ideology. It's by actually proving his hypothesis wrong, that actually we can fix things. You can solve the things that Quinton's talking about. And when you do that, you see residents show up fundamentally differently, 'cause now their instinct is actually to turn to each other and not to turn on each other. He fundamentally wants us to turn on each other. When people see that working together works, they're more inclined to do it. They wanna knock more doors, partner with more neighbors, get things done. Our belief is if we can be that proof point in cities to show you get things done, people are more excited to raise their hand and say, "Count me in. I wanna help on this civic e- event, or this party event, or this opportunity for my town." That's what gets people to believe again and then to want to engage again.

Kara Swisher 1:06:00 All right. Helena, you f- get the last word.

Helena Moreno 1:06:02 Yeah. Look, it's, it's about talking about the issues that Q, Mike, and I deal with every single day. Uh, that's what's been missing, that, you know, y- you have all these other side issues. But overall, you know, people, when they drive to work, they wanna make sure that they're driving on smooth streets. They wanna make sure that, you know, overall, that they've got the right infrastructure so there's, there's the right drainage, uh, at least here in the city of New Orleans. Uh, they wanna make sure that they can afford a place to live. They wanna make sure that, you know, that, that, that their, their children are going to good schools. Like, these are the things that we deal with every single day, things that are right in front of people, right in front of people's faces. If we are, uh, talking about those issues and we're messaging those issues, issues correctly, that's how things change. And Q and I talk about this all the time. We talked about this when, when he was in New Orleans, that the, that the messaging has to be about what people live with every day, and what are the problems that they're facing every single day, not random things that are so out there that it's like, "Well, that's not really what... That's not really speaking to me, because how is that gonna make my life better?" You know, here, here in our city, I can tell you that, that infrastructure and infrastructure investment is actually an affordability issue for us. So having federal dollars come in to help us with infrastructure, to help us with drainage, well, guess what? If you help us with drainage and help us build bioswales and significant investment, well, that means that somebody's house or car isn't gonna flood when there's a storm. If, once again, on infrastructure, you help us with, uh, with our streets, you help us with our drinking water, help us with our streets right there, uh, that means that your car doesn't get messed up when you go over a significant pothole. Like, those are the things that speak to voters. The, that level of investment speaks, is relatable. And so far, it just hasn't been relatable, the message.

Kara Swisher 1:07:52 Well, this is great. Thank you guys so much. I know it's long. We do long interviews 'cause we want them to be substantive.

Helena Moreno 1:07:57 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:07:58 And I really appreciate all three of you. And, um, and I'll let you get back to your mayoring. Uh, thank-

Helena Moreno 1:08:03 Awesome. Thank you, Kara. Appreciate it.

Kara Swisher 1:08:04 Thank you so much.

Quinton Lucas 1:08:05 Thank you, Kara. We'll see you. [upbeat music]

Kara Swisher 1:08:06 Today's show was produced by Nishad Kurwa, Michelle Aloy, Katherine Milsop, Megan Bernie, Madeline LaPlante Dubbe, and Kaylin Lynch. Special thanks to Lyssa Sowep, Julia Sharpe-Levine, Eamon Whalen, and Mara Davis. And our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, your mayor is stealing ideas from Zohran Mamdani. If not, your mayor is stealing ideas from Eric Adams. Thanks for watching. See you on Monday. [upbeat music]