Peter Attia MD234 ‒ Chris Hemsworth on Limitless, longevity, and happiness
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
75 min read · 15,267 words- 0:00 – 0:08
Intro
- PAPeter Attia
[upbeat music] Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Drive podcast. I'm your host, Peter Attia. [upbeat music]
- 0:08 – 6:18
Limitless: how Chris got involved and his overall experience filming the docuseries
- PAPeter Attia
So good to sit down with you, brother.
- CHChris Hemsworth
You too. Thanks for having me.
- PAPeter Attia
So much to talk about, but I feel like I just wanna start with kinda getting a sense of the first time you heard about this. What-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm
- PAPeter Attia
... was it, was it a call from Darren? Like, h- how did you even get involved in this project?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, I had a call from Darren, it'd be going back on three years now, and, uh, he said, "I wanna do this series, a docuseries, uh, called Limitless on longevity." And he said, "I know you're a fit, healthy guy, but we wanna dive into the science and put you in some pretty extreme, uh, intense physical, emotional situations, and see how you fare. And you can be the, the guinea pig as far as the-"
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
"... longevity science goes." And, um, I said, "Why not?" And initially it was supposed to be about a, a three-week shoot, and I know you and I have talked about this a lot. The, uh, once COVID hit, the show got spread out over two and a half years. And really, it transformed in the best way possible. I think, um, due to having a hell of a lot more time than I think we'd first anticipated, we were able to flesh out each episode, explore the science in greater detail. I was able to grow throughout the experience and have different opinions on myself, different opinions on how I approached health and wellness. Um, so yeah, I'm really proud of how it turned out and, and, and I think it was a lot due to the time span we were able to shoot it on.
- PAPeter Attia
So kinda going back to this, first of all, I can't believe they bait and switched you on three weeks of shooting because-
- CHChris Hemsworth
[laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
... like, even before COVID, I was involved in four weeks of shooting.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
So I don't know where the, where anybody thought this was gonna go.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Initially it was two, and I was like, "I can't fit that in my schedule."
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
Then it was three, and then two and a half years, so [laughs] .
- PAPeter Attia
Um, and we joke about it, right? What do we call it, Relentless? We're-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Rel-
- PAPeter Attia
We're gonna do a title change
- CHChris Hemsworth
... or Lim- Limited, I was gonna call it. [laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs] Um, so where were you in... Ha- had you, you were done Avengers by that point?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. What did I... I'd done Avengers. Uh, I think I was doing the press tour about the time this came up and, uh, yeah, hadn't done Love and Thunder, so.
- PAPeter Attia
So I remember, uh, three years ago almost to the day, I was sitting in my apartment here in New York with Darren, Ruth, uh, Ari, Arif. I mean, every, every, you know, sort of the-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... the core group from Newtopia and from Protozoa. And at that point, so n- call it November of, of 2019, they had the idea for six episodes. It was still a bit foggy, and it's kind of amazing how quickly they morphed that into that first shoot when we started in, in January. Um, was there anything about it that you had apprehension about doing? I mean, besides the time. Obviously time is a-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm
- PAPeter Attia
... is a, is an issue based on your schedule. But, you know, were you nervous, worried, anxious about doing this? 'Cause this is not acting.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. I, uh, I, I was, to be honest. So I had never hosted anything before, and it's one thing to, you know, hide behind a character and, and, and behind a mask of whatever individual you're playing in a film setting, but then to, to be yourself. You know, I've done obviously plenty of interviews and so on, but to be in a situation like this where it was not only looking into the science, but dissecting kind of my abilities and, and seeing what my, my limits were in, in, in one regard. And, um, th- th- you know, there was, there was, there's a vulnerability that's required there. I, I had to be authentic, so I, you know, didn't wanna hold back. But it's, um, yeah, it was, it was a little more of a hesitation or a lot more sort of thinking about it, um, as how I was gonna come across, and was it gonna be genuine? Was it gonna be appreciated or not? Or, you know, th- the all sorts of silly kinda doubts and, and questions start to, to creep in that I n- wasn't normally sort of thinking about. Um, and then the thing transformed anyway. As far as my initial was there any hesitation around taking, taking on the show, I, I don't think any of us knew what it was gonna be. You know, the, the three or four weeks that we'd talk about, even when you were involved, and I spoke to Darren the last couple of days about this. He said, yeah, it was a very different beast at the beginning. And due to the time, but also, um, I think due to what I was willing to do and the commitment I had for it, it was allowed to evolve and become something bigger. And, um, as did the challenges, you know? There were discussions about cold water immersion, and we're gonna do ice baths and so on. And then it was like, "Well, let's go to Norway, and let's, you know, swim in, uh, in the Arctic Ocean." And [laughs] sort of, uh, it became more and more epic, uh, as it went on.
- PAPeter Attia
It feels like you, and I don't wanna project this, but so, so correct me if I'm wrong, but as I watched you, because, you know, one of the things about this that was kind of a joy is how close we became as a group.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- 6:18 – 11:05
“Fasting” ‒ ep. 3 of Limitless in which Chris attempts a 4-day fast
- PAPeter Attia
So the, the first episode that we filmed was the fasting one. Look, I'm gonna do it with you, and-
- CHChris Hemsworth
You are?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. It makes it a lot easier to go through this with somebody else, so-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Okay, good
- PAPeter Attia
... um, yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Good. We'll s- we'll suffer together. [laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs] We will.
- CHChris Hemsworth
I've definitely gone a day without food before. I think I get pretty, pretty cranky when I f- [laughs] when I miss a meal. Certainly detrimental to my, my happiness. It's a pretty long time. Why, why four days? Why not-
- PAPeter Attia
Why not longer? [laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
[laughs] I mean, what is, what is the, what is the benefit with four days? Why that number?
- PAPeter Attia
Three to four days is probably that window at which we do enough to change how your body is interacting with-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm
- PAPeter Attia
... the absence of nutrients to basically do kind of a reboot on your system.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Oh, really? Do you think I'm gonna be able to hold it together? Do you reckon in your experience you see a lot of people, the first time they do it, succeed?
- PAPeter Attia
In the next four days, there is no doubt in my mind there will be a period of time in which you feel sluggish or-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Tears.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. [laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
Emotional.
- PAPeter Attia
Kinda grumpy, grouchy, whatever. Um, but you know, if you really stop to think about it, this idea that we kinda live today where we're sort of surrounded by unlimited access-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm
- PAPeter Attia
... to food, and we can eat three meals and snack in between them, that's a, it's a relatively recent addition to our species.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Right.
- PAPeter Attia
And our ancestors would've gone days without food all the time. And, and not only did they have to do that, they had the ability to, in a period of starvation, actually go out and hunt. I don't, I feel that, I think that shows up third or fourth in the sequence.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, what did you know going into that, and what was your expectation?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Uh, just that I had never fasted before, [laughs] and I, and I knew that this was gonna be a, a challenge.
- PAPeter Attia
And I don't think you knew how long it was going to be or anything like that. I mean, we sort of sprung that-
- CHChris Hemsworth
No
- PAPeter Attia
... on you in real time over that dinner.
- CHChris Hemsworth
We did. I think, and the initial discussions were around, like, intermittent fasting and restricted sort of feeding windows. And then it was like, "Oh, maybe we'll do a day or a couple of days." And you're like, "No, we're doing four days." [laughs] And, uh, uh, it, it, that was intense.
- 11:05 – 19:08
“Shock” ‒ ep. 2 of Limitless in which Chris swims in the Arctic Ocean
- PAPeter Attia
So let's think about Norway, 'cause that was, we filmed that in I think February, right?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
We went right from Australia, maybe had two weeks off, and then we, we're all in Norway. Um, my recollection of that was a beauty like I couldn't imagine. Um, so we were there to do this thing, but it was in this place that you would normally never go to. I feel like we took like three flights to get there or something crazy.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, again, Ross spoke about this a little bit last night, which was it was another example of you were being asked to do something much quicker than you would normally do so, right?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm.
- PAPeter Attia
I think you didn't... H- how many, what was the first day you jumped in that water? 'Cause it's different than an ice bath. Like-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... you can sit in an ice bath all you want.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
It's a totally different experience to jump in the ocean when it's 36 degrees Fahrenheit.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, it's, some, some of the, um, episodes I was able to train for, specifically probably the, the strength episode. That was on and off over the course of six, seven months, and then I had injuries and so on. But the cold water immersion, I mean, I did a couple of ice baths back in sunny-
- PAPeter Attia
We were doing some in Australia
- CHChris Hemsworth
... yes, back in Australia.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And that was, that was new to me.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And then I was talking to Ross about it, and- The sort of overarching idea was that, um, you know, they were talking about, um, developing brown fat, you know, and we're gonna monitor that, and Ross is like, "No, not in four days [laughs] this is gonna happen." And so it became as much a adaptation, uh, around cold water immersion as, as much as it was sort of a resilience test or just a, um, grit, head down, go for it. Uh, 'cause the first time we jumped in the water in Norway, and we were in there for four and a half minutes, and that, that was longer than any ice bath I've had, but it was snowing. I'm breathing in, you know, freezing cold air-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah
- CHChris Hemsworth
... um, and-
- PAPeter Attia
Windy
- CHChris Hemsworth
... and it's windy, and, and I'm also moving. You know, you sit in an ice bath, and there's a couple of mil of water that starts to heat up-
- PAPeter Attia
Yep
- CHChris Hemsworth
... if you stay still. If you're treading water, then none of that's happening. Um, so y- a lot of it was t- trusting Ross and listening to Ross's voice and, and just kind of, again, back to what you said about the, the trust. If I didn't have Ross there coaching me through it, having also done it and even to even more extremes, uh, I would've questioned it m- to no end. And in particular, on that actual, on the actual swim itself, halfway through I was like, every part of me was like, "You're dying. Get out of the water. This is ridiculous."
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. E- explain to me and to folks watching and listening what it feels like because I have never been in water that cold.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
I've done long swims at about 49 degrees.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
And even at that temperature, which seems balmy compared to 36, I mean, that's a big difference-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- 19:08 – 21:08
Cold exposure: the potential physical and mental benefits
- PAPeter Attia
I mean, of all the things in Limitless, right? The strength stuff, the endurance stuff, the mental challenges, all those things, you know, the hardest one to make the case for this will make you live longer is go and jump in the Arctic Ocean and swim.
- CHChris Hemsworth
[laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
However, I think about the benefits of cold water, I think that is something everybody should get used to exposing. I mean, just this morning-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... right, like, you know, you and I had breakfast.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Had to really quickly go up, shower, come get over here. I still made time to spend 30 seconds to a minute in the ice water-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... of the shower in the hotel.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
And I love that feeling of the first time you get into the ice water, you feel a [gasps]
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Right? You feel that little thing. And, um, I mean, there is really compelling evidence at what this does to brain chemistry.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
And I al- so that's the other thing that I think you're also experiencing, although-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... in your swim it was to a much higher degree than just taking a cold shower, an ice bath.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
But you were, I think, probably being flooded with endorphins and neurotransmitters that are very positive.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
- PAPeter Attia
And you still do this. I mean, this is still kind of a part of your routine. You're constantly-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Oh, for sure
- PAPeter Attia
... taking an ice bath.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. And it's probably about exactly what you're saying, like the endorphin kick, but also every time I get in the ice bath, whether I'm somewhat used to it, it, it's still, it's still brutal. But the moment you get out, it, it, like you say, you've gone from one extreme to another, so it's an instant sort of kick and of, of happiness. Um, but I find even like, you know, y- just from inflammation, repair, um, the general mood, uh, my... If I ha- you know, wake up in the morning and I'm feeling off and I'm achy and I'm not in the space, I can have a hot shower and, like, I'm still a bit doughy, but I jump in the cold and completely different. It's a game changer, so.
- PAPeter Attia
Does Elsa join you? Do your kids-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... join you?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Uh, one of my kids often tries to jump in for [laughs] not, not that long, but gives it a go, yeah. And Elsa does it too. We have a sauna and an ice bath set up at home and, um, it's the best, it's the best rehab.
- PAPeter Attia
I, I couldn't agree more. It, single best investment I've ever made was the sauna, cold plunge at home.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. Definitely.
- 21:08 – 32:34
“Strength” ‒ ep. 4 of Limitless in which Chris explores how muscle can improve longevity
- PAPeter Attia
So, um, let's talk about strength. So Chris, you obviously spend a lot of time working on your strength training. What type of program do you do?
- CHChris Hemsworth
I mean, I've, over the years training for different, uh, different roles and, you know, for Thor in particular it was about getting big and mass. I do shoulders one day, arms another, back, chest, legs.
- PAPeter Attia
Got it. Okay.
- SPSpeaker
Feel okay?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Uh-huh.
- PAPeter Attia
Obviously he's in amazing shape. Most of us would look at Chris and give anything to look like that. But there's always room for improvement. There are more than 600 muscles in the human body, and for longevity, you've got to make good use of as many as possible. So when I assessed Chris's muscular power and efficiency, his flexibility and agility, I found he could be working a wider range of those muscles. No, that's it. Let's go two, one. That's it. Done. And he could improve his stamina. I think that was, I think, an awesome episode because I think... And this is a, a great, an example of where COVID really benefited the series.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Because, you know, the initial challenge for strength was, was kind of an interesting challenge, but I think the one you ultimately ended up doing was better.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, and you know, my, my only view on this was, like, from a scientific perspective, what can we say about strength and longevity and, or fitness and longevity and, and really, like, kind of grip strength.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
Cardiorespiratory fitness, you know, would be top of the list, and that's why I think that that challenge-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... was a perfect challenge because it's grip strength, it's top-end cardiorespiratory fitness.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. It, it initially, um, yeah, initially it was, I was gonna be in a harness and pulling a car across a section of land, and Ross Edgley had done that, um, I think for 20 hours or something crazy. So he was like, "I'll train you to do that." Uh, and we were doing it, and I did like, I did a good month, like, pulling a sled in the backyard.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh, yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
I had a little, um, Polaris dune buggy thing that I was pulling for a bit, and it just started to, like, aggravate my back and joints and everything. And, um, then so we transitioned then to the rope climb, and as you say, it was probably more on point as far as the science around, um, strength and longevity. And then I, so I started do, training for the rope climb. I'd never climbed a rope before and, and Ross had also done a feat like that, and so was, was training me. Um, he said to me, "Look, you want to be strong, but you don't want to be heavy. The heavier you are, the harder it is to, is gonna be to get up that rope." So I had a three-meter rope in my house, and, um-
- PAPeter Attia
That's 10 feet for the Americans.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, 10 for, 10 feet in my house, and I was going kind of three-quarters of the way up and, and just jumping off and back up and down and doing loops like that. And one day I jumped down, blew my ankle out, and I ruptured all the ligaments and tore ligaments. And, uh-
- PAPeter Attia
What happened, by the way? Like, was there anything different that day?
- CHChris Hemsworth
N- I was rushing-
- PAPeter Attia
You literally just landed on-
- CHChris Hemsworth
The UFC was on, right? My mates were in the next room, and I was in the gym where my [coughs] my house set up. And they go, "Quit starting." I'm like, "I'm just getting in 15 minutes," and I'm up and down. And I must have been like- Yeah. Last one, and I just jumped off and I had a mat there and it just, I just rolled my ankle
- PAPeter Attia
Ugh.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And, um, it just blew out. And then straight away I looked at it, it was ballooned. And, and Utopia and all the team from Nat Geo were in Australia ready to shoot, I think it was next week. So called them up and said, "This ain't gonna happen," and they had a doctor have a look and they said, "Yeah, this is not good." Um, and that was the rope, that was the foot I was gonna anchor off as I was pulling myself up.
- PAPeter Attia
And for folks that have seen Thor-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Hope to
- PAPeter Attia
... you've got kind of different bodies in there.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Obviously, I, I assume the biggest you were in Thor was that scene when you were in front of Russell Crowe?
- 32:34 – 41:53
The APOE-ε4 genotype and Alzheimer’s disease risk
- CHChris Hemsworth
Good.
- PAPeter Attia
Which then brings us to kind of like some of the other stuff we talked about. So, you know, one of my earliest memories of this whole experience was, um, in December of 2019. We took advantage of the fact that you were in LA to get some blood work done, and, you know, Darren said, "Look, here's the deal. You and Chris are gonna sit down in January in Australia to kick off the first bit of shooting, um, and I want you to walk Chris through his blood work just as you would do with a patient the very first time." Um, and I said, "Okay, great." So we get the, I get the blood test back about two weeks before I'm supposed to go out to Australia, and I see something in it that I'm, you know, I say, "Darren, I can't walk him through this for the first time on camera. It's not, that's not fair to him. And I know you guys would like... I mean, I know that that's what sort of the drama is."
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
"But this is a bit too much. Um, but I can't tell you, Darren, what it is."
- CHChris Hemsworth
[laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
"So without telling you, you need to trust me that this can't be done on camera for the first time. This one thing."
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
"You can do the whole lab, but this one thing."
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
So, so I asked him to sort of trust me, and he did, and then that, and then we connected. So-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Well, he, he called me first.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Kind of in a panic, and was like, "You've got to call Peter Attia. Something's come up and, but I don't know what it is." And I was like, "Oh, God. What, this is [laughs] how long have I got left? What's happening?"
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
And, um, and so I was kind of rattled before we even got, got on the phone.
- PAPeter Attia
We did sort of the million-dollar workup on you. We've got every blood test one can get, and I've looked at every gene in your body six ways to Sunday, and overall, your labs look fantastic. And I think looking at you from the outside, it's clear how much you take care of yourself, but we did find a couple of things that are a cause for concern.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Right.
- PAPeter Attia
Some of the genetic testing that we did looked at a gene for a protein called APOE. You have a very rare combination, which is you have two copies of APOE4, a set from your mom and a set from your dad.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And what does that mean exactly?
- PAPeter Attia
That means you have an increased risk of Alzheimer's disease.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm. How much higher?
- PAPeter Attia
Probably somewhere between eight and ten times higher than that of someone in the general population.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, right. Okay. You know, you're, uh, I don't know, you're constantly thinking you're gonna live forever, especially as a young individual, and then to all of a sudden be told, "Oh, this may be the thing that might take you out," was like, whoa. Kind of floored me for a minute.
- PAPeter Attia
You know, it's hard to imagine, but it's my belief that if we take every step possible, we can reduce your risk to that of anyone else.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm. Sure.
- PAPeter Attia
In fact, I don't think you, you'll believe me when I say this, but I think you will in time, you having this gene is probably a blessing.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Because it, the motivation that'll get me to-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah. It's, this is going to motivate you to take steps today that most people your age would never think about until they're-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Sure
- PAPeter Attia
... in their 50s or 60s.
- 41:53 – 44:32
How Chris uses sauna
- PAPeter Attia
You know, one of the things we also talk about is sauna, right? [whooshing]
- CHChris Hemsworth
But Peter's convinced that regular saunas can boost my long-term health.
- PAPeter Attia
You know, n- now that we just got in here, Chris, let's, let's take your pulse.
- CHChris Hemsworth
All right.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. You're about 64 beats per minute, but we've got this temperature cranked up to about 195 degree-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... Fahrenheit. So let's see where you are-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... in a couple of minutes.
- CHChris Hemsworth
I guess I gotta get used to this heat. [laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. We're uncomfortable right now because we're hot, and in response to that, our body is trying to cool us off.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
And so it's pumping harder so that your heart can quickly get the blood to the outside of your body. And just as exercise is known to help with cardiovascular disease, I think sauna has a number of those benefits as well. [whooshing] How much of a fan were you of sauna before we shot that series in Norway and then really kind of got into the science of why it's likely... It hasn't been proven yet to the same extent that some things have-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... because so much of the data is observational. But it's so overwhelmingly positive in the same direction with every single study.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
And I think we're quite confident it is. Uh, uh, you know, I know you've always enjoyed it.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
But has that taken on kind of a, a more urgent role?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, definitely. I mean, d- and definitely-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah
- CHChris Hemsworth
... during, during having shot the show, it's made a, um, or it's become a bigger part of my daily routine, uh, p- often after a workout. And again, I don't know what the science says, but I know I feel great after doing it. Same with an ice bath. And so if sort of mood elevation was the only thing, then I'm, I'm all about it.
- PAPeter Attia
Well, I, I, I would say even if, you know, the emphasis and the benefit of the heat shock proteins is less than what we think, I, I agree with you. I think just the psychological benefit and the-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... sleep benefit.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
I mean, I... But the difference in my sleep between when I sauna and when I don't-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... is so noticeable that... And we, you know, a- a- then again, are we gonna question the benefits of sleep? I don't think so.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. I mean, I, uh, there is no doubt even with if I've been training a lot and I wake up achy, in particular, you know, I've, I've had issues with my back over the years. If I wake up and I get in the sauna in the morning and I do an ice bath or either/or, like, I, I feel 50, 60% better. And the sort of, you know, that's the thing. You lie in bed all night and you're in, you know, that position and you're, y- everything starts to kinda, I don't know, lies dormant and, um, becomes, uh, d- d- I don't know. There's just no fluidity there. You know what I mean? You wake up and you're stiff and sore and, and then you get into one of those spaces, the hot, the cold, or the, uh, or the hot, and instantly I feel like everything's just kinda lit up and awakened, so.
- 44:32 – 56:03
“Acceptance” - ep. 6 of Limitless in which Chris explores the meaning of life by contemplating death
- PAPeter Attia
When we think about kind of the, uh, the last episode, which is the one that we saw in the premiere, um, we were talking about this over breakfast today, but that bene- that episode maybe more than any other really reaped the benefit of COVID.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
Because it had so much more time to flesh out. You know, when I think about what the first version of the final episode was supposed to look like-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... if this was kind of blasted through in 2020, I won't restate what that episode was supposed to be, but it was kinda gimmicky.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Uh, it didn't work. I didn't think it would work. And then what it became-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm
- PAPeter Attia
... is unbelievable.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
What, um, what was... In, in your mind, how was the evolution of that episode? 'Cause I, uh... Did you have much of a hand in the, in the creative side of that or were you kind of just a, a passenger?
- CHChris Hemsworth
N- uh, no, I was a passenger and I was kept in the dark intentionally. Uh, Darren didn't want me to know much about it.
- PAPeter Attia
Hmm.
- CHChris Hemsworth
It was a, an immersive theater experience and I, I'm glad I didn't know because I feel like I would've had c- preconceived sort of ideas and then expectations and I wouldn't, you know, couldn't have helped acting a certain way or reacting a certain way based on that. So to go into it blind and just open and, um, ready for whatever [laughs] they were gonna throw at me or throw me into was, was exciting and different to the other episodes. Everything else was about being prepped in some way and learning and understanding, um, some of the science prior to shooting, whereas this, it was about... All I knew was it was about the acceptance of death. All I've been told is that I'm about to jump forward 50 years into the future and spend the next three days living the life of an octogenarian. Don't lose reception. Thank you. The architect of this strange challenge is Dr. BJ Miller, a world-renowned palliative care physician. His work centers on unlocking the transformative power of accepting aging and death.
- SPSpeaker
Dying offers us something. We can change how we see it, what we do with it, how we play with it. Chris is about to take part in a truly unique experiment. Ready, my old man?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Uh, I don't know. I mean, ask me in three days' time maybe. [laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
What did that suit feel like?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Uh, just uncomfortable and, um, incredibly restrictive. And I talk about this in the episode, the way people then spoke to me, 'cause they knew I couldn't hear properly and, you know, there was sort of this condescending, sort of patronizing tone of, you know, how you hear, you know, people and some, you know, some, some of the time talk to elderly, you know? And, um, it made me immediately go, "Oh, my God, I'm... I hope I don't do that." But incredibly isolating, too. You know, your vision's d- diminished and, and y- as I said, you can't hear. Restricted. So everything is, has been, uh, has been pulled away, all the sort of your abilities that were there the hour before I put it on. And also not having 50 years to transition into that was like-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. Yeah. Overnight
- CHChris Hemsworth
... again, like one extreme to the other [laughs] in, in the opposite direction to what we were talking about b- before.
- PAPeter Attia
You know, there are so many things about that episode that are beyond beautiful. One of them, to me, it's just a very subtle thing, is that all of the residents of that place were not actors.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
And what was it like kind of interacting with them? Because, you know, you watch the episode, it's like a, you know, o- slightly over an hour long episode, but I assume shooting it was days. Obv- at minimum three days.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. Three days. Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, so you have a lot of time on that set.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm.
- PAPeter Attia
Uh, I, I, I reckon some of those folks didn't n- necessarily know who you were prior to that episode.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Totally knew. Yeah, to be honest. Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Which must have been a great relief, wasn't it?
- CHChris Hemsworth
It was. It was really nice. It was, um, it was unique and different on so many levels, that, that, that episode. Uh, but to be in a retirement village with elderly folks who, you know, were there for the fun of the episode but were just genuine and truthful and honest and, um, didn't hold back with anything [laughs] they were thinking and, and there was sort of the no filter Um, approach to things was, it was great. It was refreshing. You know, I think being in a sort of industry where a lot of people do know who you are, and a lot of the time you're sort of supported in what you're doing, and everything's kinda tried to, you know, ma- be made, um, or be accommodating as possible. That was like, "No, you're one of us now." [laughs] And, um, it was fantastic. It brought me straight back to Earth [laughs] if I'd drifted previously. [laughs]
- 56:03 – 59:01
Chris’s new perspective on work-life balance
- PAPeter Attia
We, you and I talked about this at, like, last month, I think, but you haven't had more than two months off in about 10 years, right?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah. Pretty much, yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
So-
- CHChris Hemsworth
And we've had, you know, during COVID, but even then I was still working or prepping things, and so ...
- PAPeter Attia
How, how do you reconcile the, the fact that you work so hard and you've been so successful, and with that success has come so many wonderful things, right? It's ... You've got wealth, you've got fame, you've got a platform, right? We're sitting here talking-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm
- PAPeter Attia
... about more people are gonna know what the APOE-ε4 gene is and why they need to be tested and what they can do about it because of this episode, because of this series, than anything else that would have ever come out of the scientific literature ever.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm.
- PAPeter Attia
And all of that is attributed to the fact that you have a platform to do this. So there's all of these amazing things, both to you personally, and, and to society at large that come from this. But at the same time, that's not sustainable.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, you once told me a story about something your daughter said when you kind of half-jokingly suggested to her you might retire.
- CHChris Hemsworth
[laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
Do you remember what that was?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I was, uh, talking to her, and as I've done, feel like I've been doing for a long time to my kids, I'm like, you know, every time I've left to go on another trip or go back to work, I'm like, "B- but it's not long, you know? Um, just soon I'm gonna take some downtime." And I think, you know, my daughter sort of rolls her eyes at times these days and says, "Yeah, sure." And I, um, I said, and then this time I said, "Look, you know, when I'm done with this tour, I'm, I'm having a big chunk of time at home." And she goes, "Oh, great. Awesome. It'll be fun." And, and I said, "Yeah, and may- maybe, maybe I'll just, maybe I'll just retire. Maybe, maybe this is it. Maybe I'll stay home with you forever now." And she's like, "No, Dad, you can't." And I was like, "Why?" And she goes, "Because k- kids love seeing you play Thor." And it was this beautiful kind of moment of like, oh yeah, maybe it does, it, it, there is a purpose to it, you know? I think p- for me, it's, I've been chasing my career and, and I've been doing it for a number of reasons, but, you know, it's been my journey, and there's a sense of sort of guilt that comes with that, of sort of chasing down my dreams all the time. And when you have kids, it's not about your dreams anymore, it's about theirs, and I have a family to take care of. And, um, I was really sort of questioning kind of what I've contributed or done, and hearing her say that was like a, you know, [laughs] a beautiful little moment. And so I d- I don't wanna retire and, and, you know, for a number of reasons, but, um, I certainly wanna replenish and, you know, fill up my cup again. I feel like it's, uh, it's just been sort of flat stick for so long now. Um, and I've loved it and I'm very thankful for it, but I need to have, you know, a chunk of time at home now and sort of, yeah, get re-inspired, I guess.
- 59:01 – 1:03:18
“Stress-Proof” - ep. 1 of Limitless in which Chris learns about the impact of stress and how to manage it
- PAPeter Attia
How is your sleep now compared to three years ago? 'Cause I remember when we met-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... you struggled. You had a, you had a very restless mind.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
You would, you would wake up a lot in the middle of the night and you'd have a thought and you'd fixate on it. And sometimes it was a very rational thought, like, you know, "I'm worried about the success of this film. I'm worried about my relationship with my wife. I'm worried about ..." Like, these were all very normal-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm
- PAPeter Attia
... things to be, uh, concerned with, but, but they would wake you up.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Right? And, and, and you wouldn't be able to go back to sleep. And then sometimes they were things that maybe seemed less rational.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, which by the way, I'm not being critical of you because, uh-
- CHChris Hemsworth
No
- PAPeter Attia
... every one of us has-
- CHChris Hemsworth
No, no, they're mostly irrational
- PAPeter Attia
... those very irrational thoughts.
- CHChris Hemsworth
They're mostly irrational. [laughs] Stress, it definitely affects my sleep. And this is, this is going back a few years, you know? This is not such a big issue these days, but, um ... Well, actually that's not true. It is. [laughs] Yeah, like I'll go to sleep fine, and then at 2:30, dsh, just a shot of adrenaline, and my brain will just start going through a checklist of things, and be like, "Does that bother me? Does that bother ... Oh, that one. Yeah, good. Let's think about that. Let's tear that apart."
- SPSpeaker
Are you getting nervous a bit now?
- CHChris Hemsworth
A little wave of, um, nausea. Sometimes I don't even know why, and I wish I could deal with that stress better. It's just got a whole lot realer, doesn't it? Not just because it sucks. Okay. But also, it could be killing me.
- PAPeter Attia
How, how has that changed? And has this-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... has this series given you a different perspective on anything that has, has given you more peace?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, definitely. Um- I think generally I'm sleeping better than, than I was back then. Uh, I think just running in a, a state of fight or flight constantly and, you know, what... But that was required for me to become an actor, you know? To, to, for, for me to leave Australia with, you know, not a whole lot of money in the bank and live on people's couches and audition and audition and, you know, d- d- go, go through that sort of grind and be told no a million times and still, you know, obsessively be pushing forward requires, um, a huge amount of, um, compulsive, obsessive sort of, you know, self-motivated, um, drive. And then the problem is you then start to achieve those things and I'm no longer in the same sort of fight that I was, but I'm still acting like I am. My internal sort of environment is still thinking it's, you know, running away from the dinosaurs or whatever [laughs] you know? Goes back to sorta-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah
- CHChris Hemsworth
... to our sort of ancestral, um, you know, m- makeup. And so, y- you know, my e- the, the more comfortable I get and the more I sort of rationally talk myself through, "Hey, it's all okay now," you know? Like you're, um, you know, we, we can afford to do this and this and this, and you don't have to, um, worry so much about it not working out, um, some of that dissipates. But it's there all the time, you know? And, and I'd be lying if I said, um, that I had a complete handle on it. But again, I don't wanna kinda dismiss it too much because it's c- what got me here, and it's a tool that I will still need to use at certain times. It's just monitoring that and, um, I don't know. I, I, I hear a lot of people talk about that, though, you know? It... People in the sort of... Friends of mine, sports players and so on, with that, what's required to get them to that place, it's a blessing and a curse, you know? And it's, it's a hard thing to switch on. Uh, switch off, sorry, once you've, once you've opened the gates.
- PAPeter Attia
Uh, yeah, I think that's a very common thread for people who have achieved great success.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm.
- PAPeter Attia
And
- 1:03:18 – 1:07:24
Chris reflects on his intrinsic motivation driven by both fear and purpose
- PAPeter Attia
when, when you think about your motivation, right? When you think about, um, the love you have for your craft, um, is there a way to use excitement more than fear? Like how, you know-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm.
- PAPeter Attia
'Cause I, I think back to, you know, your beginning, right? As you talked about. You know, you, you've, you've spoken a lot about, and I think you even did in some of the episodes, you spoke about how y- you know, one day you found out your father, you know, like wasn't gonna be paying off the mortgage any time soon.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm.
- PAPeter Attia
Like you, you, you sort of had this realization of the fact that your parents have done so much for you and your brothers with the means that they had.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
But you wanted more for them, and y- uh, so it... Part of your fuel for success was like, "I wanna take care of my family as well. Not just the kids that I'm going to have-"
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm
- PAPeter Attia
... which you didn't yet have, but like-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... these, these people who you love so much. Um, and there's a bit of fear in that, right? There's a bit of-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Oh, for sure
- PAPeter Attia
... like-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... like do or die.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
But at the same time, there's also a real passion you have for what you do.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, you're, in other words, you're an artist, right? And so a- artists enjoy making art. Is it about shifting the balance of what's the fire? Like where, where's the fire coming from? Is the fire coming from a place of fear? Is the fire coming-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... from a place of love? I mean, do, do those, do those go back and forth for you from time to time-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Absolutely. Yeah
- PAPeter Attia
... in different seasons?
- CHChris Hemsworth
I used to get, um... I had, [clears throat] excuse me. Uh, very intense like performance anxiety when I was first acting, and I would... It was debilitating. I would go to auditions and I'd wanna throw up, I'd be shaking. And then even when I got jobs, and I don't know how I was getting jobs based on how nervous I was in those auditions, but I was then be on a set and it was like I couldn't think or see, and I felt I was gonna pass out. Like, and I had... I was fighting that sort of for, for years. And, and you talk about fear or excitement, and I remember reading something that took a series of tests with, um, athletes, um, performers, musicians, um, uh, d- actors, whatever, anyone in a sort of adrenaline-fueled sort of space. And they said, "Okay, before the event, are you nervous or excited?" And some of them said they were scared out of their minds, some of them said they were, they were pumped. The interesting thing was they all had the same physical response.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Elevated heart, pulse, et cetera. Clammy hands, short of breath. All... The only difference was how they labeled that feeling. And so for me, that was a real light bulb moment, and I thought, "Oh, okay. So when this feeling comes out, up and I'm abou- about to walk onto a set," and what, and you know, I programmed myself to say, "Uh-oh, this is bad."
- PAPeter Attia
That's fear.
- CHChris Hemsworth
"This is fear. This is a negative."
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
I then went, "Nope. This is, this is a positive. I'm g- my Spidey senses are up now. I'm gonna be able to think faster, react quicker, I'm gonna see clearer, I'm gonna... You know, my, my vision will be sharp." And it was, and that was all it was, was the decision then to see it differently. Um, then sort of, you know, a- as time goes on, I think the fear does have its place, though. You know? I, I think you sort of would've heard s- people talk, you know, that the fear pushes you, your purpose pulls you, and both of them need to have equal sort of, um-
- 1:07:24 – 1:12:11
Chris reflects on his career arc and how his presence as an actor has evolved
- PAPeter Attia
What was the first role you had where you allowed yourself to think, "I, I, I'm ma- I'm gonna make it"?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Well, it's interesting. The first Thor film I thought, "Great, this is..." I mean, the game certainly. But-
- PAPeter Attia
What, which year was the first Thor film?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Um, oh, God, was it uh, 2010 I think.
- PAPeter Attia
10?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah, yeah. Um, I thought, "This is good. I'm, I'm kind of in the mix." But I didn't know if the film was gonna work. I didn't know if we were gonna do an Avengers film. I-
- PAPeter Attia
And you weren't the first choice, or were y- w-
- CHChris Hemsworth
N- uh
- PAPeter Attia
... wasn't there something funny in the audition there?
- CHChris Hemsworth
There was... Yeah, there was, um... I auditioned initially, and didn't get a callback. I got some pretty bad feedback. And, um [laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
What was the feedback?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Just no good [laughs]
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
Just, just, just the, it, it-
- PAPeter Attia
Really direct feedback
- CHChris Hemsworth
... really, r- really like minimal feedback-
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
... which is like, you're not even, we're not even gonna give you any sort of, you know, constructive criticism or anything. It was just kind of minimal and nothing. And, um, and I was shooting a film in Vancouver, and my little brother calls me up and said, "Oh, they're gonna fly me out from Australia to LA for this film, Thor" And I was like, "What?" And he was like, "Yeah, I sent an audition on a tape, and I'm going over" I'm like, "Oh, that's awesome, man. Congrats, wow. What?" You know. And then the trades, I think Variety or Deadline come out, it had like the six final, um, guys for Thor, and Liam was one of those people. And I was with Joss Whedon and Drew Goddard on, it was Cabin in the Woods, and they both said, "What the hell's going on here? Is this your brother?" And I go, "Yeah" And he goes, "Why are you in the mix? You should be Thor" And I was like, "I don't know. I didn't get a callback, so" None of them ended up getting it, and they reopened the casting. And, um, I got a chance to, to do an audition, and I sent in a tape, and I was called back in to meet with Ken Branagh and, and do the audition. And I just had a very different attitude about it. I didn't put anyone on a pedestal like I did the first time. I had like, there was a little, I was a little pissed off-
- PAPeter Attia
A little chip on your shoulder
- CHChris Hemsworth
... yeah [laughs] that my brother had gotten there and I hadn't, and it was a good motivation and, um... And I, and it was, it's about perspective, you know? And then I was able to walk into that room and give the best version of whatever I had to offer, as opposed to people pleasing and going in going, "Is this what you want, or is, is it this, or this way?" And then, you know, there's nothing, um, there's a lack of strength there, I think. They needed the character to be assertive, and so I had a, a lot more sort of presence in, in that space than I did the first time around. And then, uh, then got the part.
- PAPeter Attia
How long does an audition take?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Well, I mean, y- it, it, usually you have a few days to learn it. Sometimes you have, they, they call you at lunchtime and they say, "Come in this afternoon and read" And, um, but the audition itself is-
- PAPeter Attia
And when you're actually there in front of them
- CHChris Hemsworth
... it can be [laughs] again, depending on how well or bad it goes-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah
- CHChris Hemsworth
... it could be five minutes, it could be two minutes, it could be an hour. And I've had, I've had both. I've had, like, people answer the phone midway through my audition when I first got to town, they'd just be like, "Yeah, yeah, cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah"
- PAPeter Attia
[laughs]
- CHChris Hemsworth
And I'm like, "Am I supposed to be still going?" And they're just like, "Yep, that's great. Thank you very much. We'll call you" And you're like-
- PAPeter Attia
Oh
- CHChris Hemsworth
... "My God" It's, it's brutal. You get enough of them, and it's, you either become numb to it or it destroys you. [laughs]
- 1:12:11 – 1:16:16
How Chris’s outlook has changed since filming Limitless
- PAPeter Attia
So if we're sitting here in five years, and your life is better than it is today, especially in accordance with the final episode of Limitless-
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm
- PAPeter Attia
... right? Meaning you're running less. Um, the balance between purpose and fear is more in favor of purpose than fear.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
You feel more connected to your kids, your family. What has to be true? What are you doing?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Look, I, I don't think it's, um... This is another thing that came up in the episode. I just want to sort of clarify. I don't feel like I've been doing anything wrong as much as I've just been in the storm of it.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
You know? And I have a beautiful relationship with my kids and my wife and my family. It's, and I'll be there with them, but my brain is pulled in a million other places.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And so f- for, for things to be even better, um, would just be about-
- PAPeter Attia
Like, is it just about a state of mind, or does it mean-
- CHChris Hemsworth
It, it's, it's both-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah
- CHChris Hemsworth
... because in the episode I was talking about this, and I said I was being asked to imagine what my death would look like and if this was my final moment, who would I have around me? Where would I be?
- PAPeter Attia
Mm.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And I realized it's in the living room with my family and friends, and that's every other weekend.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
You know, I have it. I, so it was as much a moment of it's already right here in front of you.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
Change your attitude. And also in addition to that was, okay, I wanna do this even more now.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- CHChris Hemsworth
And I have an opportunity to do that because I'm not in the fight or the sprint anymore. And, um, so it would be to be more curated with my choices and-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah
- CHChris Hemsworth
... and, and have more time pre and post the film to, to prepare and decompress as opposed to just piling one after the other. Um-
- PAPeter Attia
Does that mean more directing?
- CHChris Hemsworth
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
E- e- you know, shifting the balance a little bit?
- CHChris Hemsworth
I think it's who the directors are, you know?
- PAPeter Attia
I see.
- CHChris Hemsworth
I think, um, working with people that are at the top of their game, and I've been so lucky. I've worked with some wonderful people. Um, i- but to cont- I just worked with George Miller, and to continue to work with individuals like that where I'm learning from them, it's a collaboration, but they're at the helm. They're steering the ship. I don't have to feel like I've gotta police anyone else there, you know, um, i- is the dream. And then you're inspired by those people and, and you're doing it for the right reasons. It's from an artistic space and an expression as opposed to, you know, a financial one. Oh, it's a good payday. Script sucks, but I get paid well, you know, which I've done a few times, you know? [laughs] Um, a- and so yeah, to be more curated in my choices and, you know, have more stillness and more calm either side of it.
Episode duration: 1:16:16
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