CEOs Grovel to Trump — And It’s Working | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 When they go to meet with the president, the only thing they repeat over in their heads over and over is, "Don't forget to swallow."

Kara Swisher 0:05 Right. But they get what they want. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And Scott was late for my birthday.

Scott Galloway 0:22 Uh, so, uh, look, this is a big one, 73. But I-

Kara Swisher 0:26 It's not 73. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:27 Um-

Kara Swisher 0:27 That's you, my friend.

Scott Galloway 0:29 Uh, I'm much younger than you.

Kara Swisher 0:30 N- Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:31 I'm much younger than you.

Kara Swisher 0:31 By like two months, yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:32 I'm much younger than you.

Kara Swisher 0:34 Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Scott Galloway 0:34 Uh-huh. And plus-

Kara Swisher 0:36 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:36 ... plus for men, 60 is the new 40. And for women, 30 is the new 80.

Kara Swisher 0:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 0:41 Um, (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:43 Mm-hmm. Okay.

Scott Galloway 0:43 Why does that make me happy? Let's talk ... Happy birthday, Kara. I mean, you literally are the longest-serving tech journalist. I remember-

Kara Swisher 0:52 Mm.

Scott Galloway 0:52 ... the first interview you did about technology was talking to the guy who invented fire.

Kara Swisher 0:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:56 Um, (laughs) that's good.

Kara Swisher 0:59 That was a good technology.

Scott Galloway 1:00 That's good.

Kara Swisher 1:00 That was a hell of a good technology.

Scott Galloway 1:02 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:02 Any ... We've got a lot to get to today.

Scott Galloway 1:04 Or when you inv- (laughs) when you interviewed that company, the hottest startup, uh, that it had started this thing called electricity.

Kara Swisher 1:10 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:11 Um, yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:12 I got that. Very ... What else? What else? Dirt?

Scott Galloway 1:15 Um-

Kara Swisher 1:15 When I invented, when I talked to the guy who invented dirt.

Scott Galloway 1:17 No. You're so old, you interviewed Zuckerberg back when he had human emotions. Um-

Kara Swisher 1:21 He never did. He never did.

Scott Galloway 1:22 Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

Kara Swisher 1:23 He never did, so that's not true. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. W- there is a lot to get to, including Trump calling affordability a hoax, which is not a good idea. Australia's new social media ban. Uh, so much, there's so much going on. Um, uh, but first,

Kara Swisher 1:38 Disney just announced a $1 billion equity investment in OpenAI and will allow users to make videos with its characters on Sora. Characters available through the deal will include Mickey Mouse and Cinderella as well as Frozen, and the agreements do not include any talent, likeness, or voices, meaning the people, like the John Cenas, whoever, the diff- pe- people that are in their movies. Uh, Scott, I don't want to know what you want to make Mickey Mouse do, but what, what do you think of this? This is interesting. And I actually texted Iger. I go, "Look at you, Mr. Tech." And, um, uh, but it- it was interesting, sort of, especially since OpenAI really needs a win right now, which we'll go into in a minute. But any thoughts on this?

Scott Galloway 2:17 I think it's smart of both of them, um, that I probably would've ... Well, Di- Disney gets to do what it wants, but I probably would've gone with Google, but ... and Gemini. But, um, I- I think it's smart. Uh, Disney needs some AI tech pixie dust over a company that is ... I mean, literally, Iger is the guy that decided to volunteer to go back to Vietnam, and he's g- he's getting, you know, he's getting-

Kara Swisher 2:43 Fragged, as they say.

Scott Galloway 2:44 ... shot, shot up everywhere.

Kara Swisher 2:45 Yeah. His ass fragged is the expression you're looking for.

Scott Galloway 2:48 Yeah. Uh, instead he could just be sitting on a beach somewhere heckling from the cheap seats about the new CEO facing all this bullshit.

Kara Swisher 2:55 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:55 But anyways, he's back. But to do, to announce, this is a great press release for Disney.

Kara Swisher 2:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:59 The IP and the characters are really interesting. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

Kara Swisher 3:02 It's good for

Narrator 3:03 ... fame.

Scott Galloway 3:03 I don't know if it amounts to anything.

Kara Swisher 3:04 Yeah. I think all these people will be doing these deals, right?

Scott Galloway 3:07 Sure.

Kara Swisher 3:07 Like, there's not a media company ... I- I- I thought Joanna Stern was funny. She goes, "Look at this hype. Isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think my bubble's complete?" Which was cute. (laughs) There's so many good jokes in there.

Scott Galloway 3:16 What's weird is they- they did sort of their, what I'll call their tired characters. I mean, Mickey Mouse and Cinderella, I- I sort of get ... Uh, well, maybe it's 'cause I'm just ... I- I've aged out of that shit, but-

Kara Swisher 3:27 No. They're old ones. My kids know Mickey Mouse.

Scott Galloway 3:30 They just don't-

Kara Swisher 3:30 And they do like Cinderella. Clara likes Cinderella. But the- the- the main characters are the new ones, like the Frozen characters-

Scott Galloway 3:36 Right.

Kara Swisher 3:36 ... or, um, Moana.

Scott Galloway 3:38 Moana. Is that a Disney character?

Kara Swisher 3:39 Yeah. Moana's one. They're- they're coming out with live versions of ... I think there's a new Frozen coming out in 2026, and I- I think the live version of Moana's coming out. Y- there's- there's a trailer for it. Um, but yeah, and I- I- I ... Yes. Yes. I would agree with you. I don't think they're picking the most recent characters, um, that kids today like. But they're classics, right? Right?

Scott Galloway 4:01 Yeah. This is- this is a- this is smart for both of them. I don't know-

Kara Swisher 4:05 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 4:05 ... if it's gonna amount to anything, but it's a good press release, um, probably-

Kara Swisher 4:07 No lawsuits. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:09 Yeah. It's smart and it- it ... the- the question is, or what I would want to know is, does it end up being some sort of supporting evidence for why OpenAI should not be using other characters and identities when they're willing to pay for these ones but not others?

Kara Swisher 4:26 It just depends on what ... I would use all. Like, what's the difference? You're in for a dime, you're in for a dollar. People are stealing it anyway. Why not have it licensed and get money from it? I don't know. It just seems like ... Look, this is inevitable that they're ... Be- they're either gonna steal it ... And one thing that happened with YouTube is it- is, uh, you know, is it took too long, right, to do what is now very lucrative for everybody, right? And the question is, who is it more lucrative for? But it's inevitable. And so I think, you know, YouTube could have done it sooner and the companies instead of ... Remember Philippe, Philippe Dauman did the lawsuit? Um, they were gonna steal it anyway, guys. So figure out a way you can do a deal with them. And I think a lot of them, including TikTok, is open to- to doing deals with- is wanting and open to doing deals with these companies, and they should as long as they're ... it protects their right. It puts you in partnership with them to get rid of cheaters, I guess, presumably.

Scott Galloway 5:19 Yeah. I don't know. The- the whole Disney, uh, I'm not sure it's ... It's just so unrealistic and- and biased against men. Like, Snow White-

Kara Swisher 5:27 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:27 ... lived in the woods with seven men.

Kara Swisher 5:28 Oh, God. Stop

Narrator 5:29 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:29 And somehow none of them were-

Kara Swisher 5:30 Stop. Stop. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:30 Somehow none of them were emotionally available. And by the way, the big moral lesson from Aladdin is that theft is wrong unless you're hot and have a pet monkey with main character energy.

Kara Swisher 5:41 (laughs) Do you know when you watch that they still have the, this is really tasteless movie, um, warning on it when you watch it, which is interesting? Like, uh, you know, depictions of- of arab figures and stuff like that. It-

Scott Galloway 5:51 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 5:52 ... is interesting. Same thing on ... There's a couple of movies like that when I- I was just watching. I have to say, though, one that you put the older ones up, Clara loves Mermaid, she loves Cinderella, she loves Snow White. She likes the new Snow White, the old Snow White. Anyway, um, uh, and so this-

Scott Galloway 6:06 You know Winnie Pooh is the original influencer.... is, is naked, addicted to honey, and lives with a bunch of deeply dysfunctional woodland friends. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 6:13 Okay. All right. Enough-

Scott Galloway 6:15 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 6:15 ... fragging of, of poor, uh, Bob Iger. But

Kara Swisher 6:18 speaking of AI and speaking of fragging, President Trump will allow NVIDIA to sell H200 chips to China. Reactions and move are muted, actually negative, with NVIDIA stock slightly down. Uh, critics warn it could advance Chinese AI capabilities. Um, gosh, the Wall Street Journal really took him to town on this thing. Um, essentially, uh, you know, and everybody did. Ian Bremmer did, a whole bunch of people. And the idea is, like, look, they're getting all the stuff and NVIDIA's getting, getting what it wants. That's it. And the American, American public doesn't benefit in any way from this. Um, uh, so it seems like Jensen Huang's, you know, full-court press of wearing his leather jacket and hanging around Donald Trump and praising him has worked here. This is what he wanted.

Scott Galloway 7:01 Yeah. I- I'm, I'm mixed on this, uh, because when we didn't sell them the, our chips, it feels to me like they got to work on workarounds. Um, I, I think the policy, uh, it's like this is why we need Gio Raimondo back in charge of this shit, because this stuff is not black and white. And I like the idea, I like the idea of slow-balling it, and that is giving them enough access to our chips such that they didn't make a statewide massive investment in innovation of their own. (laughs) In other words, y- y- ... Like, cable companies would pay content companies just enough such that they could ... (laughs) It didn't make sense for them to go to other means of distribution, but not enough, but, you know, n- not enough such that they were more powerful than the distribution players. I would've thought ... I would've n- n- just tried to get every economist in the room and say, "Okay, how, how can we give the Chinese just enough chip technology that it grows our economy and our champions, but s- we still maintain a lead?" Because when we did embar- ... There was a very solid argument that all you do when you embargo, uh, China from doing this is they come up with workarounds that are really innovative. So the problems I have are autonomous weapons, supercomputing, military simulations. And, and the problem is with high-end GPUs, it can dramatically reduce the training time for, like, combat algorithms and missile targeting and cyberwarfare and drone storms. And the reality is, I just don't trust Hegseth to get in a room with, with our commerce secretary and kind of figure this shit out on a thoughtful level. I think essentially Jensen Huang has likely said, "We're very supportive of you. You're handsome. And NVIDIA should get involved in your next renovation," and ...

Kara Swisher 8:52 Right. Exactly.

Scott Galloway 8:53 Uh, so I, I don't ... Unfortunately, I, uh, I, I, I dislike this almost as much, it's probably more impactful, but no less or more egregious than Witkoff's kids and the Trump kids getting money for their shitcoin investment in exchange for us agreeing to sell chips to the UAE, who has not proven that they don't have a leaky boat in terms of sending chip technology to Russia or China-

Kara Swisher 9:21 Yes. Yeah. Uh, that-

Scott Galloway 9:23 ... itself.

Kara Swisher 9:23 Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 9:23 We just don't have thoughtful people figuring this shit out.

Kara Swisher 9:25 No. Well, this is ... I have to say, the Journal was very explicit. "President Trump said this week he will let NVIDIA sell H- sell its H200 chips to China in return for US Treasury getting 25% cut of the sales. The Indians struck a better deal when they sold Manhattan to the Dutch. Why would the president give away one America's chief technological advantage to an adversary and his chief economic competitor?" And they do say-

Scott Galloway 9:45 Good point.

Kara Swisher 9:45 ... they're gonna do it anyway. But, uh, but, uh, he said, "Yet now Mr. Trump wants to sell the advanced H200 without strings. The question is why. NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang has lobbied for loosening the restrictions. The company's friends in the White House argued that doing so could retard, uh, could retard China's drive to develop competing chips and make its AI developers dependent on US chips." That's their best argument. And, and he s- ... Uh, went on to say, "No, this is, this is, this is really bad on every ..." And what we get is bupkis, essentially. Um-

Scott Galloway 10:16 That's a great point. We should've ... At a minimum, we should've gotten more. If you look at-

Kara Swisher 10:20 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 10:20 ... uh, in the last five years, it's gone from 17% of exports to the US to 10%. They have vastly reduced their dependence on us. I get that. What is asymmetric in the trading relationship with everybody is that China, since 2019, has increased its exports 40%.

Kara Swisher 10:39 Correct. That's what they were saying. "We got-"

Scott Galloway 10:41 And-

Kara Swisher 10:41 "... we got more." Yeah.

Scott Galloway 10:42 Meanwhile, has only increased their imports, buying other people's products, by 1%. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 10:47 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 10:48 So they've decided, "We'll sell you everything." Uh, w- we, at a minimum, should have extracted a pound of flesh here that said, "Okay. We're ... You g- need to open your markets for the following things for us." But this is ... Uh, it's ... And not only that. It ... The, the, the waterfall effect, Huawei will be a much more competitive product against-

Kara Swisher 11:07 And they make great products. And this is the last line. "We sure hope Mr. Trump isn't doing this for the NVIDIA's 25% tax payments to Treasury. The Constitution vests taxing power in Congress, yet Mr. Trump is essentially trading national security for pennies on the dollar." So I would agree. He's gotten nothing for this. Hm ... Even with the H20 chips, we got some rare earth minerals. Um, I think at the time, uh, they, they, they ... He said the administration agreed, but they, they put more restrictions in October. So, uh, just this is stupid. We're ... He's the worst dealmaker in, uh, in am- in America, (laughs) anywhere.

Scott Galloway 11:41 We, we gave a strategic competitor AI progress, stronger military capability, um, likely a more kind of self-sufficient or innovative tech ecosystem, while exposing all of our own firms to regulatory, geopolitical, and long-term competitive risks. And in exchange, you know, what we got was NVIDIA stock's gonna go up.

Kara Swisher 12:02 Right.

Scott Galloway 12:02 Okay.

Kara Swisher 12:03 And 25 whatever. You know, it's just ... It's really ... Jensen Huang is the most, and I mean this-... you know, as, as a compliment, manipulative CEO there is. Um, and he gets what he wants, and it's all good for NVIDIA, but-

Scott Galloway 12:15 Oh, this can- I hate to say this, but Jensen and Ted Sarandos and all these guys who, uh, when they go to meet with the president-

Kara Swisher 12:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:26 ... the only thing they repeat over in their heads over and over is, "Don't forget to swallow."

Kara Swisher 12:31 Right.

Scott Galloway 12:31 These guys are the most obsequious-

Kara Swisher 12:34 But they get what they want.

Scott Galloway 12:35 And, but that's their, I hate to say, that's their job.

Kara Swisher 12:37 They were there yesterday, and of course-

Scott Galloway 12:39 It's, it's our job to elect (laughs) people who will push back on this bullshit.

Kara Swisher 12:41 By the way, they were there yesterday. That fed head, dead head, fed, dead, whatever, he's losing his mind. All right, um, speaking of losing your

Kara Swisher 12:50 mind, uh, Trump says it's imperative that CNN be sold in Warner Brothers deal. The president is not supposed to say things like this, but of course what, whatever, it's this one. Conveniently, David Ellison has reportedly told Trump officials if Paramount wins out, he'll make sweeping changes at CNN. What a, what a cuck he is. Although Trump got a little testy with the Ellisons this week, lashing out on Truth Social after 60 Minutes ran an interview with Marjorie Taylor Greene. Meanwhile, Ellison has been pitching Warner shareholders directly, got apparently Mario Delbeli interested, trying to tender their shares. Um, I have, I feel like I've talked to a lot of people here all this week, and, you know, money is gonna win out here, but the kind, like people would have lost their minds if their... and this was in the Wall Street Journal also, that he has told them he will, you know, he will change CNN as part of the deal. Um, when one of, uh, Oliver Darcy told me when he tried, and he wrote, when he tried to get a comment, they didn't, they're like, "What are you talking about?" Like, they didn't even deny it that they were doing that, making this paper... You know, uh, "We'll, we'll stop CNN from being so mean to you, Mr. President, if you give us thing." That would have been a four-alarm journalistic fire at any other time, um, not with these, these punks out here.

Scott Galloway 13:59 Well, imagine if Obama had said that-

Kara Swisher 14:00 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 14:00 ... when Fox was trying to-

Kara Swisher 14:01 No.

Scott Galloway 14:01 ... merge with Disney or whatever it was.

Kara Swisher 14:03 Exactly.

Scott Galloway 14:03 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 14:03 Like just, it doesn't, I- I'm not even gonna imagine it. It's bad. It's bad now, it was bad then, it's bad all the time. I mean, again, it sort of absolutely puts, solidifies, I'm walking right out of there the day they get their f- like I'm walk- I'm, there's no way I'm working for these terrible people. But, um, and I've said, I said that on an interview with Rachel Maddow 'cause she was asking me. Um, but, uh, but money, let's go to the deal. Uh, what, regardless of what they do with CNN and what they're doing is heinous, what they're considering doing is heinous, um, the money wins out here. It's the, it's if they go up to 34, I understand, they will get this, they will get this.

Scott Galloway 14:40 Yeah, we had, I thought we had a really productive conversation around this. And the way this is supposed to work is that the one with the most money wins.

Kara Swisher 14:48 Right.

Scott Galloway 14:48 At least initially, at least initially.

Kara Swisher 14:50 Yeah. Right.

Scott Galloway 14:50 It's meant to be a competi- It doesn't fucking matter what the president thinks, or it shouldn't matter, right?

Kara Swisher 14:54 No, it doesn't. It's-

Scott Galloway 14:54 And, and quite frankly, it doesn't matter-

Kara Swisher 14:55 ... investors matter.

Scott Galloway 14:56 It doesn't matter what podcast or who podcasters think would be, quote-unquote, "better owners." The person that shows up with the biggest check in capitalism in a single class shareholder company, which this is, gets the prize. And then, subject to the following, regulators bring an economist and, and, and econometrics experts and consumer behavior experts, and they try and discern whether or not the very valid argument you made, that this is, in fact, one big market for eyeballs, or if it's a distinct market, 'cause it's original content creation and a subscriber model, and they make a call around whether or not this will reduce competition and leak value and leverage from consumers and labor to the shareholders of the consolidated ecosystem or not. And then, and then it goes through an additional, I think it's called, I, I, I used to do this for a living, and then it goes through something called a, I think it's called a CFIUS review that says, "All right-"

Kara Swisher 15:54 Right, which they're just under, they just made it so they're just under, just so you know. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway 15:58 They're just under-

Kara Swisher 16:00 All the Mideast countries in this deal, what they did is they manipulated it so that these numbers are, that, that doesn't have to go through a CIFI-

Scott Galloway 16:07 Well-

Kara Swisher 16:07 ... CFIUS review.

Scott Galloway 16:08 Uh, the bottom line is, there should be a national security review that says-

Kara Swisher 16:11 But there's not gonna be 'cause of the way they designed it because-

Scott Galloway 16:13 Well, I know, but I'm talking about what should happen. I-

Kara Swisher 16:15 Correct, right.

Scott Galloway 16:16 Look, what, what, what will happen is totally (laughs) like, up for grabs-

Kara Swisher 16:19 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 16:19 ... in a corrupt kleptocracy, and that is-

Kara Swisher 16:21 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:22 ... a mix between, is a mix between '60s East Germany, '30s Germany, a kleptocracy and a kakistocracy, pick your-

Kara Swisher 16:29 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:29 ... -ocracy that's just-

Kara Swisher 16:30 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:30 ... fucking stupid-

Kara Swisher 16:31 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:31 ... or evil. But the way it should work is biggest check wins initially, then it goes under antitrust review by thoughtful people to figure out if it's gonna reduce competition and harm consumers and labor, and then it should go under national security review. And let me be, let me be clear. I actually don't think raising money out of the gulf for an acquisition like this, I don't perceive that as a threat.

Kara Swisher 16:52 Oh, come on, it's media. They, we never, we had, we lost our minds when-

Scott Galloway 16:55 Hold on.

Kara Swisher 16:55 Okay, go ahead.

Scott Galloway 16:56 Hold on.

Kara Swisher 16:56 Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 16:56 I, I, I was the largest shareholder on the board of the New York Times. I got to meet with the editorial board once and couldn't say anything, and had absolutely no influence over the editorial product there, and I had two seats on the board.

Kara Swisher 17:10 Right.

Scott Galloway 17:11 So- and also, we have to keep in mind that the, all the money right now is in the Gulf, and if we want access to our capital for our companies to create more competition and more tax revenue, at some point, we need to access that capital. Having said that, I would like a review by people much smarter than me to go, "This is why it's a risk to our free speech, and they will have undue influence," or someone go, "You know, if you put these safeguards in place, it's just a cheap source of capital." My point is w- there are, there are people who do this for a living and are really good at this, and should be part of a review. Instead, it's based on the blood sugar level and the opinion, unfortunately, of the president, who gives him money, and what, what TV anchor or podcast he res- listened to most recently. This is, there... We have institutions and, and experts, and let me use the word which has become a dirty word, we have experts for a reason.

Kara Swisher 18:04 All right. L- let me, let me interject here.

Scott Galloway 18:05 Sure.

Kara Swisher 18:05 First of all, they're d- they're designing it so ... They also had Tencent in here until they were replaced, but-

Scott Galloway 18:11 Tencent?

Kara Swisher 18:12 Tencent was ... It had to come out because they knew that would-

Scott Galloway 18:14 Oh, Ali, Ali Ba ... Uh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Tencent, yeah.

Kara Swisher 18:15 They, first of all, they hid the idea of the, uh ... They didn't hide it, but they put it on the le- one of the last pages that the Saudis and the others were involved. Secondly, they added Jared Kushner just to put i- icing on this shitty cake. Thirdly, they had Tencent in there, and then they didn't. I mean, this is how they're thinking, right? And honestly, I want to know, Larry, if you're so fucking rich, why don't you just pay for it if you believe in this so much? You're an American. It's an, it's an American media company. Why do you need their money? I get why you would get it. I'm not s- ... I'm not unsophisticated. But here's what it does. There's a woman, Gail Slater at Antitrust. She's well-regarded. He, he has now put her in such a fucking jam. Like, she can't do her job, um, because now she's sucked up into politics versus doing a real antitrust look at this, right? As we talked about, which is streaming prices, where's the market, et cetera. That's an issue. It has also put the CFIUS people in, in a jam because they can't look at this, which is their job. And by the way, I don't even trust them anymore given all the, the yutzes and yahoos. They put a person in charge of FEMA that was an election denialist, like a really severe one, as opposed to just a sort of casual garden variety, um, election denier. Um, it's just, they're putting incompetents and loyalists in place, and nobody's gonna be able to do their job here because of what Trump is doing and how he has been staffing his administration, and how he's w- ... The only thing that I find amusing is that he's not sort of just giving in to the Ellisons. He's making them beg for it, essentially, uh, by kissing up to Ted Sarandos. Now, the question is will Netflix raise its price? Will it, say, do an all-cash deal, go to 30, and then have that stub of a company which is the CNN and the cables? The question is whether Netflix will, will ... The, what, what, what Bill Cohen had talked to me about, and he's written about, is they go to 30, and then the question is what's the value of that stub? Uh, Ellisons are valuing it at a dollar, uh, or a little more than a dollar, and others, like pretty well-known analysts, are valuing it at anywhere from three to five dollars. And so that makes their deal higher than the Ellisons, but what if the Ellisons just go to 34 cash? There's ... You know, that's the whole situation, and I think most of the arbs just want the money and move along, right? Presumably.

Scott Galloway 20:29 Oh, yeah. They, they, uh, they're ... This is like the venture capital community. Whoever comes up with two cents more, I'll make out with my cousin.

Kara Swisher 20:36 You didn't make out with your cousin, did you?

Scott Galloway 20:38 I s- I did.

Kara Swisher 20:38 No.

Scott Galloway 20:38 And you know what? He's a very good kisser.

Kara Swisher 20:40 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 20:40 Snow White asked her ... an AI for relationship advice-

Kara Swisher 20:44 (laughs) Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:44 ... and it responded, "Maybe don't move in with seven dudes from Craigslist next time."

Kara Swisher 20:49 Right.

Scott Galloway 20:49 Um-

Kara Swisher 20:49 Yeah, very funny.

Scott Galloway 20:49 I like that one.

Kara Swisher 20:50 Yeah. Okay. Any more-

Scott Galloway 20:51 Look, I don't ... (sighs) This is why m- ... This is why two thirds of mergers don't work, and it's playing out here.

Kara Swisher 20:58 Yeah. Right.

Scott Galloway 20:58 We'll wring our hands b- uh, about, about antitrust, about someone in the Gulf having undue influence over CNN, around the Ellisons getting their nose so far up Trump's ass that they'll, they'll-

Kara Swisher 21:11 I'm out, guys.

Scott Galloway 21:11 ... guarantee that they'll just start filling CNN with Tucker Carlson on, on 24-hour-

Kara Swisher 21:17 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 21:17 ... loop or something. But this is why this acquisition will most likely fail from a shareholder perspective, and that is, one, you have a tenden- ... We have a tendency as an acquirer to overestimate synergies, underestimate cultural impact, and three, more than anything, testosterone gets involved. And that is, I can guarantee you that when all of these companies were looking at this ... This is a company that was trading at nine bucks a share recently.

Kara Swisher 21:42 Seven. I saw it was down at seven or s- ...

Scott Galloway 21:45 That all of these guys said, "Okay. Scarce assets, one-of-a-kind properties. We don't want th- this in the hands of competitors. Wow, this is an opportunity to consolidate the streaming market. Uh, Netflix, "Wow, we really need this to bulk up. Paramount, "We could do great things with the cable and the streaming. Comcast, and we need something to reignite grow- ..." They all came up with really strong strategic reasons to stretch to, "All right. If we could get this for 19, maybe 20 ... We can't go any higher than 24."

Kara Swisher 22:15 Which was the initial offer from David Ellison.

Scott Galloway 22:17 Right. "We can't go any higher than 24," and this is what happens.

Kara Swisher 22:20 Right.

Scott Galloway 22:21 Testosterone takes over, you think.

Kara Swisher 22:22 It's like gambling. It is. It's like g- ... Like, ugh, it just-

Scott Galloway 22:24 We're only a couple bucks away-

Kara Swisher 22:26 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:26 ... from being king and taking the ultimate victory lap-

Kara Swisher 22:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:29 ... and pulling ... I- if Ellison mas- ... If he massively overpays for this thing-

Kara Swisher 22:35 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:35 ... every business cover will be, "The Winner-"

Kara Swisher 22:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:38 "... The Winner."

Kara Swisher 22:39 Yeah, yeah. I remem-

Scott Galloway 22:40 And we're not gonna realize-

Kara Swisher 22:40 Remember, remember at the AOL Time Warner with Ted Turner and Steve Case?

Scott Galloway 22:43 Yeah, B. Ca- Yeah. The Winner. What a-

Kara Swisher 22:44 Oh, that picture.

Scott Galloway 22:45 ... deal of the century, and Steve-

Kara Swisher 22:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:46 ... Case is now like, "Oh, my God."

Kara Swisher 22:48 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 22:48 "I just sold this guy a bag of shit."

Kara Swisher 22:50 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:50 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 22:51 Yeah, that's what David Zaslav was thinking. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 22:52 But these guys have already ... I can promise you they have already blown way beyond a price they would have never-

Kara Swisher 22:59 You are absolutely right.

Scott Galloway 22:59 ... ever considered.

Kara Swisher 23:00 They can't make it work. They cannot. It's just a rich p- ... It's a yacht. Like, it's a yacht that's leaking, and that's what he's bought. I mean, the problem is l- ... But, but if you just ... On, on the face of it, in terms of synergies, Comcast or Netflix are the better buyers. They have all k- ... Like, Netflix could blow out Game of Thrones. They could blow out ... They have the worldwi- ... Uh, you know, the worldwide distribution network. They, they, they could do a lot with this, and they don't, and-

Scott Galloway 23:22 Well, and they're shopping with, with, with, with expensive stock. Their credit card is fully loaded.

Kara Swisher 23:26 Right, right. Exactly. Right. Well, not as expensive. It was, but, um, they are the best owner. Uh, between these two, by every single metric, they're the better owner. And I know all I would do is cr-

Scott Galloway 23:35 When you say better, do you mean in terms of synergy? What do you mean?

Kara Swisher 23:37 Synergy, how it works, what they're gon- ... They're not gonna do as many layoffs. They ab- ... Like, and the only thing CBS, this whole gang can do is, is put together, like, s- uh, problematic assets, and they don't have a plan for doing anything else. I mean, the only thing that's happening is ... I mean, uh, uh, as I've said before, David Ellison is m- is a very nice guy, but he's monumentally unqualified to do this. That hasn't stopped him, but he is the oldest boy with Daddy's backing, and, and-

Scott Galloway 24:07 Uh, uh-

Kara Swisher 24:07 ... and that's a prescription for a bad merger.

Scott Galloway 24:09 But that, th- th- uh, okay, but-

Kara Swisher 24:10 Also, I don't think his ...... movies made so much money.

Scott Galloway 24:12 Well, okay. And, and, and Zaslav's gonna walk away with-

Kara Swisher 24:15 Oh, yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:15 ... a billion dollars-

Kara Swisher 24:16 Best winner.

Scott Galloway 24:16 ... for destroying value.

Kara Swisher 24:17 Winner.

Scott Galloway 24:17 I mean, we can make a big ... A- and-

Kara Swisher 24:19 Speaking of winner.

Scott Galloway 24:20 And Netflix is, in my view, who I love, is, is going to basically end game streaming and prices are gonna go up. I think you can make an ... But here's the thing. It, it, we don't get to decide who would be-

Kara Swisher 24:35 No, the investors do.

Scott Galloway 24:35 ... qualitatively the best owner or the worst.

Kara Swisher 24:38 Right.

Scott Galloway 24:38 Uh, the guy who runs AT&T is a really smart, nice man. I like him a lot.

Kara Swisher 24:43 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 24:43 He was probably the wrong owner for CNN. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 24:45 Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Scott Galloway 24:46 But he showed up with the biggest check, so-

Kara Swisher 24:49 That's right.

Scott Galloway 24:49 ... Jeff Bewkes said, "Congrats, it's yours."

Kara Swisher 24:51 That guy, smart. Another smart guy who got out when the getting's good. Um-

Scott Galloway 24:55 Okay, hold on. Just, uh, pause there.

Kara Swisher 24:56 But he did call Netflix the Albanians. Let's not let him forget that one.

Scott Galloway 24:59 Yeah, uh, (laughs) he made, he made a one sentence stupid remark that's haunted him the rest of his life.

Kara Swisher 25:04 Uh, it's a really bad one.

Scott Galloway 25:05 But let me, but, okay, but that is dwarfed by, guess who decided to sell magazines at their peak?

Kara Swisher 25:10 Mm.

Scott Galloway 25:11 He did.

Kara Swisher 25:11 Jeff Bewkes.

Scott Galloway 25:12 Guess who decided to sell the cable part of his company-

Kara Swisher 25:14 Jeff Bewkes.

Scott Galloway 25:15 ... at the peak? And by the way, guess who decided to sell the assets of, of Time, of Time Warner at their peak?

Kara Swisher 25:22 Jeff Fucking Bewkes.

Scott Galloway 25:23 Because this is what CEOs-

Kara Swisher 25:24 The best Albanian there is.

Scott Galloway 25:25 This is where CEOs-

Kara Swisher 25:27 Yeah. Matter.

Scott Galloway 25:28 ... uh, uh, where they're, and I'm gonna differentiate between men and women. I don't think Ruth Porat, I, I think women are different than men, and it's okay as long as you sanctify women-

Kara Swisher 25:35 She's doing great.

Scott Galloway 25:35 ... and call all men predators and idiots.

Kara Swisher 25:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:36 But I think on a certain level, you would have to acknowledge, if Ruth Porat was running these companies-

Kara Swisher 25:41 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:41 ... there's no fucking way she'd be at $34 a share.

Kara Swisher 25:44 No, she wouldn't. She couldn't.

Scott Galloway 25:45 She'd be, she'd be like, "Okay, I don't need to have the biggest dick and win this thing."

Kara Swisher 25:48 She doesn't.

Scott Galloway 25:48 "I'm here for shareholders."

Kara Swisher 25:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:50 And the thing that CEOs are really not good at, but they get all jonesed up about-

Kara Swisher 25:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:57 ... getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

Kara Swisher 25:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:58 The guy who ran BofA just kept acquiring everything and destroyed a ton of shareholder value.

Kara Swisher 26:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:03 What CEOs are not good at, uh, going back to my-

Kara Swisher 26:06 Selling.

Scott Galloway 26:07 I'm gonna pat myself on the back. I remember saying to Arthur Sulzberger at The New York Times, I'm like, "Why the fuck aren't we selling About.com? This is shit. This is a shit business."

Kara Swisher 26:13 Mm-mm.

Scott Galloway 26:13 "We could sell it for a billion dollars right now." But they wanted to accessorize an analog outfit with digital earrings.

Kara Swisher 26:19 Right.

Scott Galloway 26:20 CEOs are-

Kara Swisher 26:20 Bad digital earrings, yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:20 ... terrible at selling assets at the right time.

Kara Swisher 26:23 So question, why don't you give then David Zaslav the same hand job you're giving Jeff Bewkes here? Just curious.

Scott Galloway 26:28 Uh-

Kara Swisher 26:30 'Cause Jeff-

Scott Galloway 26:30 Oh, David, David's doing his job, but, but, but Jeff Bewkes-

Kara Swisher 26:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:35 ... you know, who probably made $100 or $200 million-

Kara Swisher 26:38 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:39 ... made billions for shareholders.

Kara Swisher 26:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:41 Zaslav has, has basically said, "You fucked up investing in my company. You should invest in the S&P. I'm barely-"

Kara Swisher 26:48 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:48 "... gonna get your money back. But by the way-"

Kara Swisher 26:50 Oh, yeah. That's true.

Scott Galloway 26:50 "... I'm gonna walk off with a billion dollars."

Kara Swisher 26:51 Yeah, you're right. That's fair.

Scott Galloway 26:52 If, if, if-

Kara Swisher 26:52 He's barely getting their money back.

Scott Galloway 26:54 ... Musk, if Musk, if Musk creates $7 trillion in incremental shareholder value-

Kara Swisher 26:59 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:59 ... at Tesla, I've said this on the record.

Kara Swisher 27:01 I know, I know. I agree.

Scott Galloway 27:01 I'm okay with him getting a trillion dollars.

Kara Swisher 27:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:03 If Bewke, Mickey Drexler, I remember when Mickey Drexler made a billion dollars at The Gap and there was-

Kara Swisher 27:08 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:08 All, this was in the '90s.

Kara Swisher 27:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:09 And there was all this, like, hullabaloo, and I'm like, "He's added $14 billion in shareholder value."

Kara Swisher 27:14 Yep, agree. I agree.

Scott Galloway 27:15 ... the problem with Zaslav-

Kara Swisher 27:16 It's gross, but yes.

Scott Galloway 27:17 ... or Marissa, or Marissa Mayer or Adam Neumann is they walk off with hundreds of millions or billions-

Kara Swisher 27:22 And didn't give, didn't-

Scott Galloway 27:23 ... for destroying shareholder value.

Kara Swisher 27:25 Didn't 10x it. Yeah, you're right. No, I agree. Okay, we'll see where this goes. But I'll tell you, Kara Swisher goes out the door. Thank you. That is my speech.

Scott Galloway 27:32 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 27:32 Um, by the way, um-

Scott Galloway 27:33 Somehow I don't think that's entered the discussion, to be frankly honest.

Kara Swisher 27:35 Uh, no, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna loudly insult them the whole time until they fire me. Um, but I was-

Scott Galloway 27:39 I don't think they're gonna fire you. I think they're gonna-

Kara Swisher 27:41 (laughs) I know. I'm actually the person they wanna keep, which is the worst part, but I'm not gonna. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the Trump administration's plan to use social media to gatekeep foreign visitors. Support for this show comes from Quince. Here's the thing about being a great gift giver. When you find something truly perfect, like truly perfect, you almost don't want to give it away, and that's what can happen with Quince. Everything so soft and well-made you'll be tempted to keep it all for yourself. Quince pretty much has your whole list covered. Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $50 when you'd normally pay $200 or more, the kind you'll wear on repeat. Then there's the denim that goes with everything. Silk tops and skirts when you need to pull that look together, cashmere beanies and scarves, and down jackets that actually keep you warm. And those Italian wool coats, they look designer, feel luxurious, and are made with premium materials. I've tried Quince for myself and I wear it all the time, whether it's casual pants, a sweater, or a down coat. Find gifts so good you'll want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.com/pivot for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash pivot to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/pivot. Scott, we're back with more news. This one, I just can't believe this. The Trump administration wants to review foreign

Kara Swisher 29:05 visitors' social media history. This is ahead of the, the World Cup coming here. The plan would apply to citizens of 42 countries that are allowed visa-free travel to the US. The list of countries includes the United Kingdom, Australia, France and Germany. The proposal is not yet final, and US Customs and Border Protection says it will accept 60 days of comments. Uh, I mean, are you fucking kidding me? In the free speech nation, um, a, and, and as you said, our, the numbers on visitors have declined so precipitously and has sort of hollowed out, I, I can't believe they're even considering looking at people's social media. Like, what do you fucking care if you think Marco Rubio is dickless, which I do, and I will say on social media. Um, this is insane, uh, from a business point of view, correct?

Scott Galloway 29:50 Like, this obsession with manufacturing, where 80% of Americans think we need more manufacturing, but-

Kara Swisher 29:57 Right.

Scott Galloway 29:57 ... only 20% of Americans have any interest in being in manufacturing.

Kara Swisher 30:01 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 30:01 You can't take your dog to the factory floor. People don't want the, for the most part, people don't want to be in manufacturing. This obsession with manufacturing, we do need a certain level of a manufacturing base, but it needs to be advanced manufacturing, high margin.... but the obsession is coming at the cost of an even better higher margin industry, and that is the tourism business.

Kara Swisher 30:23 It's insane.

Scott Galloway 30:24 And so, and I- I, just so people can fill up our comments with calling me a fascist or a weirdo or whatever-

Kara Swisher 30:30 Well, that's ev- every Tuesday, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 30:31 There you go. I do believe if you are applying to come here and be a citizen or get a, uh, a visa or a green card, I think everything is open game because what ... And, and young people, let's be clear. When you get a job at Goldman Sachs, before you get the offer or you apply for a job, you know what they do? They look at your social media and if they think you're an idiot that is going to embarrass them and you're, you're saying misogynistic things or you're out just rubbing your wealth in people's face or doing shots or acting like a total asshole, guess what? They will not give you a job. They also run credit trek- checks on you. So I, I, there's a difference between what I call tourism where we benefit ... Vegas is dying and amongst ... There are two reasons Vegas is dying, or a lot of reasons, but one of them is we now move, we've put Vegas in everyone's pocket, but also-

Kara Swisher 31:23 Right, online betting.

Scott Galloway 31:24 Canadians were a huge source-

Kara Swisher 31:27 Huge.

Scott Galloway 31:27 ... of, of revenue for, for Vegas. They're out. They're like, "Fuck you."

Kara Swisher 31:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:32 You're gonna treat us like assholes and take 70% of our exports which go to you and start playing being reckless with our economic wellbeing?

Kara Swisher 31:39 Mm-hmm. No, they're pissed.

Scott Galloway 31:40 Yeah, we're done.

Kara Swisher 31:41 Yep.

Scott Galloway 31:41 So this is yet another reason-

Kara Swisher 31:43 But what, what, who would even think of this? This is, like, where's it ... By the way, we ... The First Amendment-

Scott Galloway 31:48 Gestazi, which is what we're becoming.

Kara Swisher 31:50 Literally the first fucking amendment, it says you can say whatever you think. Like at the, you know-

Scott Galloway 31:55 But-

Kara Swisher 31:55 ... he also tweeted that if you s- ... That he's ... Apparently incandescent over New York Times-

Scott Galloway 32:00 Well, hold on.

Kara Swisher 32:00 Let, let me finish.

Scott Galloway 32:00 The First Amendment though. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Kara Swisher 32:02 They should be able to say anything they want about the United States of America on social media, period. Period. Full stop.

Scott Galloway 32:09 Okay. But, but do we have an obligation to let them in? I don't, I, uh-

Kara Swisher 32:12 Yes. Yes, we do. It's just words. That's just words. They're not like-

Scott Galloway 32:17 But I-

Kara Swisher 32:17 ... they're bringing-

Scott Galloway 32:17 ... I'm asking this to learn, not to make a comment.

Kara Swisher 32:19 Okay.

Scott Galloway 32:19 Does the First Amendment apply to people coming in temporarily for-

Kara Swisher 32:22 I don't care. It applies to our whole ethos. Like if you wanted to, to keep people out because it's-

Scott Galloway 32:28 Well, come on, Kara. I'm, I'm, I'm coming to New York and then I'm gonna, uh, commit a terrorist attack against major infrastructure?

Kara Swisher 32:31 I'm not talking about committing a terrorist attack. Saying Donald Trump is an orange Nazi is fine.

Scott Galloway 32:36 Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Kara Swisher 32:37 Okay.

Scott Galloway 32:38 I'm, I'm ... "Hi. I'm coming into the US." "Why are you here?" "Well, it says on social media that you are about to activate a terrorist cell and commit acts of terror while you are here on US soil." You think that's First Amendment free speech?

Kara Swisher 32:52 Y- no, because that's not what it's about. It's they're gonna review their foreign visitors. So, so, b- ... The only reason I'm pairing this together is because he was-

Scott Galloway 32:59 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 32:59 ... incandescent over a New York Times piece. He is acc- according to White House people that I talked to, he's like lost his mind, where the New York Times basically said he's old and probably, you know, essentially has frontal lobe dementia, which I think we all can all ... after the performance of the last two days.

Scott Galloway 33:13 (laughs) You're going a bit off script here, but, uh, okay.

Kara Swisher 33:15 But this is what he said.

Scott Galloway 33:16 Okay.

Kara Swisher 33:16 "Anyone who says I'm sick is a traitor and could be tried for sedition," essentially, is what he said.

Scott Galloway 33:23 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 33:23 Words, words don't count and I, I just, I ... Look, if you can-

Scott Galloway 33:28 That's different, Kara.

Kara Swisher 33:29 No, no. If they come in and they have threatened this on social media, then we stop them, we look through their bags, we say we're gonna follow them, all ... And we still let them in. I'm sorry, it's just words. It's like what if it's a teenager doing it? What if it's some-

Scott Galloway 33:41 Well, we can make those-

Kara Swisher 33:42 ... angry grandma-

Scott Galloway 33:42 We can make those-

Kara Swisher 33:43 ... German grandma?

Scott Galloway 33:44 We can make those judgment calls, but I don't think-

Kara Swisher 33:47 (laughs) Yeah.

Scott Galloway 33:47 I don't think everyone ... I don't, I don't think everyone ha- anyone ha- I don't think Americans have a birthright to live in New York. I- if it's too expensive, you leave. I don't think people have a birthright to just throw up their arm, unfortunately, and say "asylum" and gain entry into the US.

Kara Swisher 34:00 Uh, right.

Scott Galloway 34:00 And I don't think it's people's birthright to come in for whatever reason if they have a history and statements that's ... appear to be a threat and are gonna cost us more energy and money to track these people 'cause we perceive they're a real threat. Having said that, I, I, I think the bar has to be pretty fucking low to gain entry to come in and spend money. And if you've said some anti-American things on your social media, okay. We should be able to assess how serious a threat it is, and the bar needs to be, I don't know, really high or really low, but if you've said some anti-American things, that's probably 70% of anyone who has a social media account. And the economic benefit and the brand America ... When people come to America, guess what? They have a really good time and they like us and they find out on the whole, people who are Republicans and Democrats are pretty decent people and then they go back and say, "Hey, maybe some day, let's go back to Disney." Or if our kid wants to go to college in the US or if a US company comes here, maybe I'll do business with them. We have a vested economic and strategic and military interest-

Kara Swisher 34:59 Yes.

Scott Galloway 34:59 ... vested interest in letting people come and see how wonderful America is.

Kara Swisher 35:02 Yes, but I think what you were doing was a very edge case of a thing. They already-

Scott Galloway 35:06 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 35:06 ... were, were aware of those people. E- ev- someone who calls them Orrin Schittler, come on in. Like, who cares? Like, who the fuck cares? And they don't need to investigate that person. If they don't have a history or record of crime-

Scott Galloway 35:17 I agree with that.

Kara Swisher 35:17 ... which they already know befo- ... By the way, they know s- the, the bad people that come in for the most part. It's not a secret. It's not some grandma from Germany. Like, give me a break. I mean, it's, it's only one step to what he was saying very explicitly. If you say, "I'm old and sick."

Scott Galloway 35:33 You're a traitor.

Kara Swisher 35:34 You're a traitor.

Scott Galloway 35:34 You're guilty of sedition.

Kara Swisher 35:35 Guess what? You're old and you're sick and I think you have pre-f- uh, uh, uh, you know, frontal dement- lobe dementia. I ... Come and get me. I don't know what else to say. Anyways, speaking of which, President Trump kicked off a series of really unusual

Kara Swisher 35:48 speeches, for him even, 'cause, uh, he seemed rather low energy and m- Meandering, intended to ease the cost of living concerns by mocking affordability. Let's listen to a clip of the speech in Pennsylvania this week.

Narrator 36:00 But they have a new word. You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability.

36:05 (laughs)

36:06 So they look at the camera and they say, "This election is all about affordability." Now they never talk about it.

Kara Swisher 36:15 Yeah. They're talking about it now, sir. Um, he got distracted by someone in the crowd telling him to run for four more years during the speech. Also suggested Americans should buy less pencils and dolls from overseas. That's an old trope he was doing. Um, he was quite ... I mean-I don't think he has Alzheimer's, I think he has this frontal lo- 'cause you get more aggressive and more fanciful with that one. Uh, uh, uh, uh, Alzheimer's is a forgetting disease, really. Um, but this idea of you can get your dolls elsewhere, buy less pencils, um, n- nobody cares about affordability. They must be dr- they must be beside themselves in the White House that he's doing this.

Scott Galloway 36:53 He ran on affordability.

Kara Swisher 36:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 36:54 Um, and 57% of voters-

Kara Swisher 36:57 Afford ability. Sorry.

Scott Galloway 36:59 57% of voters in a, uh, agree that Trump was losing the battle against inflation. 68% believe that the economy is poor or very poor. And according to a recent political poll, um, get this, 27% (laughs) percent of respondents have skipped a medical checkup because of the costs, because of costs have, uh, accelerating in the last two years. A quarter have skipped a prescription. A third said they could not afford to attend a professional sports event with their family or friends, and almost half said they can't pay for a vacation that involves air travel. I- I mean, this is the problem, neither Democrats or Republicans wanna have a serious fucking conversation around affordability. Republicans want a tariff, Democrats wanna throw money at people to say, "We'll, we'll short-term solve your problem." The structural, the structural answers to inflation and affordability are really boring, and Amer- the American public doesn't seem to want to elect people who are willing to have these conversations. The things that drive inflation, you, you start with the shit that drives the CPI. 40%, unfortunately, of middle income homes now is going towards housing. We need-

Kara Swisher 38:02 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 38:02 ... and you've said this, we need a massive increase in housing.

Kara Swisher 38:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 38:05 The next biggest cost, in terms of acceleration-

Kara Swisher 38:07 Healthcare.

Scott Galloway 38:07 ... the two and three, are education and healthcare. We need national medicine or socialized medicine, and we need tuition caps based on income of the household. I- i- but no one wants to talk about, and we need massive antitrust to ma-

Kara Swisher 38:20 Well, it's also, it's also food though, Scott. I mean, I was noticing-

Scott Galloway 38:23 Also food. Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 38:23 ... and I have, I, I, I have plenty of money to buy food, but I was in a store the other day and the, the, the, the, the, the, the chicken sandwich was $8, and Amanda saw one too, 8, $9, like for just a basic chicken. And I was like, that's like less, more than minimum wage. Like everything, like even the most basic stuff is more than minimum wage. And I, I, I don't kn- I don't pay attention to prices as much as I should. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But boy do you notice them now, 'cause you're like, "What?"

Scott Galloway 38:54 But okay, but the question is, I, uh, uh, you're saying what everyone will agree with.

Kara Swisher 38:58 Right.

Scott Galloway 38:59 And that is the rent is too damn high.

Kara Swisher 39:01 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:01 Uh, you know, remember that mayoral candidate?

Kara Swisher 39:03 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:04 We all agree. The question is, what do we do about it? And the answer is, in my view, if you're talking about a chicken sandwich, there are three companies controlling the majority of the poultry market. There are too few, uh, grocers and too much regulation, and too m- and too much red tape that increases the cost of, of grocery prices. You need more competition. There are literally seven food companies responsible for the vast majority of our food products right now. We need m- we need dramatically more competition-

Kara Swisher 39:33 But, but from a marketing point of view, him making fun of it? Uh, I don't even understand what the theory is here, except that he has frontal lobe dementia. I don't know what else he could be.

Scott Galloway 39:42 See, I don't, I don't, I, I, I don't think it's fair to say he has dementia or Alzheimer's. What I think it's-

Kara Swisher 39:46 No.

Scott Galloway 39:46 ... fair to say is he suffers from an ailment that is very obvious and is true. He suffers from 79.

Kara Swisher 39:53 Oh, okay.

Scott Galloway 39:53 And we just should not have a person with their finger on the button, trying to figure out tariff policy, trying to figure out, you know, our relationship with the CCP and what ships should go and the threat they present long-term-

Kara Swisher 40:04 Right, but what do you-

Scott Galloway 40:05 ... who's entering their ninth decade.

Kara Swisher 40:05 ... what do you think of him doing this, trying to make it not a thing?

Scott Galloway 40:09 It's, it's totally ineffective.

Kara Swisher 40:10 Biden was pilloried for much less, by saying that-

Scott Galloway 40:12 Totally in- totally, totally ineffective, and I'm glad he's doing it, 'cause I think it plays into our hands. But at some point, the counter to that can't be just, "What a fucking idiot he is." Okay, agreed. It's, all right, affordability requires an adult conversation and long-term structural solutions. Are we ready for an adult conversation around housing, medical care, tuition costs and antitrust? And the Democrats-

Kara Swisher 40:33 Yeah, although I don't think mocking is a bad idea.

Scott Galloway 40:34 ... why are the Democrats having this conversation?

Kara Swisher 40:36 I agree.

Scott Galloway 40:36 Uh, outside of Senator Klobuchar, who's actually having this conversation?

Kara Swisher 40:39 For years.

Scott Galloway 40:40 The Democrats who I have on Raging Moderates all say the same thing. This is an important conversation that we need to have at the right moment.

Kara Swisher 40:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 40:46 But right now-

Kara Swisher 40:47 Yeah. I agree. I agree.

Scott Galloway 40:47 ... let's make sure we get the OCA, uh, you know, ACA subsidies. All right, I get it.

Kara Swisher 40:51 Well, that's a cost. Like, your, like, uh, you don't buy insurance, but mine is gonna go up quite a bit. Like, and it was, it was rem- it was like, "What could it go up to?" And it wasn't-

Scott Galloway 41:02 Oh, I agree, it's insane.

Kara Swisher 41:04 It, it, it was like-

Scott Galloway 41:04 40% of American households have medical or dental debt.

Kara Swisher 41:06 Right.

Scott Galloway 41:06 But okay, so w- we, we have a series of band-aid ideas, but no one wants to talk about a structural reform in healthcare, 'cause the healthcare industrial complex is the biggest donor to packs. I just gave a bunch of money to a young woman who just announced her campaign for Senate. And her, well, pretty easy to figure out-

Kara Swisher 41:28 Jasmine Crockett. Okay, yeah. I saw you online. You were like, "Call me Jasmine."

Scott Galloway 41:32 Yeah. Uh, I am literally like watching my parents argue.

Kara Swisher 41:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 41:35 I love Talarico and I love Jasmine Crockett.

Kara Swisher 41:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 41:38 Anyways.

Kara Swisher 41:39 Yeah. Should we invite both of them to South by Southwest to be on stage with us for our event?

Scott Galloway 41:43 Oh, I would love that.

Kara Swisher 41:44 Let's try that.

Scott Galloway 41:44 I would love that.

Kara Swisher 41:45 Jasmine, James-

Scott Galloway 41:45 I think they're... (sighs)

Kara Swisher 41:46 ... we'd like to have you both on stage.

Scott Galloway 41:48 I think they're, I think they're both outstanding.

Kara Swisher 41:50 And Scott will cry 'cause his parents are fighting.

Scott Galloway 41:50 It breaks my heart they're running against each other. Anyways, but I heard from someone on our staff saying, "We'll try and find time for you to meet with a representative." I'm like, "No." Uh, people, people with my demographic have way too much fucking influence already. I am sending this money with one directive, keep-... keep an on girl.

Kara Swisher 42:09 Yeah. All right.

Scott Galloway 42:09 Just keep doing what you're doing.

Kara Swisher 42:10 Although I'd like to see her slap you back to last Sunday, as my own entertainment.

Scott Galloway 42:14 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 42:14 Anyway. All right. We have to g-

Scott Galloway 42:15 That's what you're here for at 73.

Kara Swisher 42:16 I would. She would totally take it-

Scott Galloway 42:18 At 73.

Kara Swisher 42:18 ... her, her announcement video was great. I like him too. It's really-

Scott Galloway 42:20 I loved her announcement video too. She's getting, she's getting grief for it. I thought it was great.

Kara Swisher 42:23 People are worried, people are worried about them fighting each other. I don't ... I think that's fine. Everyone's like, "Oh, we've blown this." And I'm like, "No we haven't."

Scott Galloway 42:28 We need more hot young people like Talarico, who by the way, follows Instagram models, which I love.

Kara Swisher 42:33 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 42:33 Which I love. I love a guy who talks about Jesus and then is following only trans models.

Kara Swisher 42:37 Do you know Emily Ratajkowski did ask about him? Anyway, let's go on a quick break. We'll come back.

Scott Galloway 42:42 You know, I expose myself and you jab.

Kara Swisher 42:43 When we come back, we'll talk-

Scott Galloway 42:44 You play with my emotions. I got so-

Kara Swisher 42:46 I-

Scott Galloway 42:46 ... much doper when you said you know Emily Ratajkowski, and I was waiting for the end to say that she DMed you.

Kara Swisher 42:52 No. She still hasn't asked about you. So when we come back, we'll talk about Australia's new social media ban for teens. Scott, we're back. It might be time for us to move down under. Australia's become the first country in the world to ban kids under 16 from using social media. Instagram, TikTok,

Kara Swisher 43:05 Snapchat, Reddit, and several other platforms face fines of up to 33 million dollars if they don't take reasonable steps to remove underage users. Of course, Aussie teens are already finding workarounds. Of course they are creating accounts with fake ages using less popular apps and even taking the government to court. Fine, well, and good. That's what, that's what teens are there for. And here in the US, the Florida law banning social media accounts for kids under 14 is, uh, going into effect after surviving a court challenge. I gotta say, I agree with that idiot. Remember him, down in Florida? The DeSantis on this? This works. Will the rest of the world follow? Now, just for ... Let me just say, we give Facebook and Meta a hard time, and by the way, they are not keeping young people safe, no matter what they say. Um, Tim Cook was on Capitol Hill this week, lobbying against legislation that requires platforms to authenticate, um, users' age, pushing instead to, uh, put the burden on parents. You know, that both Meta and they are arguing of who's the responsible. I think they're both responsible, the, whether the phones are, or the, uh, social media sites, but putting it on parents when they make these products is just not ... I- is just, I, I find really shameful for Tim Cook to do. But I know why he's doing it. I just find it shameful. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 44:16 We just gave back in one move, or I should say the Australian government and their leadership just gave back. This was the most generous, accretive gift to kids likely in Australian history.

Kara Swisher 44:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 44:29 Uh, their time with their friends, their self-esteem, their time outside, their time playing sports, their time with their parents, their ability to navigate relationship in per- in person, their ability to focus on their schoolwork, their test scores. The, the Australian government just gave back more childhood to children than any single legislation I think passed in the West in the last decade. And, and I, I just wanna call out, I think the most influential scholar in the world right now is my colleague Jonathan Haidt. I just don't think this would've happened without his book, The Anxious Generation. It might've, might've happened, but it wouldn't ha- have happened as soon. And I hope that it ignites an absolute firestorm of ... And they say, "Well, it's about parenting." Oh, fuck you, Tim Cook.

Kara Swisher 45:17 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 45:17 Do you think it's parenting that, that bars should be able to serve my kid alcohol?

Kara Swisher 45:22 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 45:23 And that it's up to me to make sure that he never-

Kara Swisher 45:25 Yep.

Scott Galloway 45:25 ... gets access to alcohol?

Kara Swisher 45:26 I mean, it is some of your responsibility. By the way, Tim Cook doesn't have children, so they don't know the difficulty of, of-

Scott Galloway 45:30 Okay. And here's the problem. Parenting, okay.

Kara Swisher 45:34 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 45:34 You don't have children when you say that.

Kara Swisher 45:36 Yeah, you don't. That's what I thought.

Scott Galloway 45:37 Because unless it's a collective action, unless every 15-year-old is off Snap, you move in with parenting and you manage to figure out a way to use Qustodia or Qustodio and get them off Snap, and guess what? They're more depressed, as my other colleague, Adam Alter, uh, did research around this, because they're ostracized 'cause they're the only ones not on Snap. So unless there's this collective action through legislation, and this is my favorite argument for Meta, that they're violating their First Amendment rights. Do you know what? A 14-year-old doesn't need to know. We don't need to know what a 14-year-old thinks about mRNA vaccines. I'm sorry. Uh, this is such an insane argument that it's, that (laughs) they're worried about the free speech, and they say this is nothing but the following. This is Joe Camel. It was shown that the tobacco industry had a series of cartoon-like characters to try and incorporate new people into their addiction, which would continue to kill our sisters and our brothers and our, our mothers, and they said, "Sorry, you don't get to feed the pipeline with cartoon-like characters." Nor should social media, at a minimum, be allowed to spread this depression, this disassociation, and this sequestration from life and family. My fear, I would love to think this ignites similar bans around the world. I, I'm hopeful it does, but the problem is, in America, we are ... fall into this delusion that we are a democracy. We're not. We have a-

Kara Swisher 46:58 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:58 ... passive majority that is weaponized and influenced by very activated, sophisticated, well-funded special interest groups.

Kara Swisher 47:06 Yes.

Scott Galloway 47:07 And the special interest group around tech-

Kara Swisher 47:08 Sing it, sister.

Scott Galloway 47:10 Well, this special interest group around tech is only second to the health industrial complex in terms of money, and maybe number one right now, 'cause the entire economy and the Trump administration is making a big bet on AI.

Kara Swisher 47:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:21 So these people have so much fucking p-

Kara Swisher 47:23 Right.

Scott Galloway 47:24 I, I ... We have minority rule.

Kara Swisher 47:25 The two areas that are the worst for Americans, healthcare and social media, among the worst-

Scott Galloway 47:31 100-

Kara Swisher 47:31 ... biggest, biggest lobbyists. So it's in their-

Scott Galloway 47:33 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 47:34 Let me just say-

Scott Galloway 47:35 100%.

Kara Swisher 47:35 I agree. Parents should get off their phones when they're d- in front of their kids. They should do m- be more present with kids. Absolutely, they should be more interested in what they're doing online, but it is incred- it, it is, it's too hard to use and it's not your fault, parents. This is made ... I have a hard time monitoring the ... I had a hard time monitoring these things, but I did it, but it was very, it was very difficult and the tools suck. So th- th- this is their responsibility to, to b- make it so. Put warning labels on these things. Explain this to kids, and, and again, I agree. Parents should not be on their pho- like th- you have to sort of-... you know, a pattern map for kids on stuff like that. Ignoring them and looking at your phones is one of those things. Um, and so there is a parental obligation here, but for the most part, that, this is the, is on them, all of them, and it's really repulsive that all these companies have constantly abrogated their responsibilities of their shoddy products, no matter how you do it. And they are able to do it. And I know they put in all this, "What if finding people? Privacy?" I don't care. Figure it out. You're smart people, so. And you're making a ton of money, so I'm sure you could spend some money.

Scott Galloway 48:48 Well, well, just so, let's talk about-

Kara Swisher 48:49 Okay. We can finish.

Scott Galloway 48:50 ... some data in the US.

Kara Swisher 48:50 But go ahead. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 48:51 All right. So Instagram earned $4 billion this year from teens age 13 to 17.

Kara Swisher 48:57 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:57 They make ... Platforms are gonna earn about $13 billion from kids under 18 in 2022, which translates to about, I don't know, somewhere between 100 billion and a quarter of a trillion dollars. So what do you know? They're worried about their First Amendment rights. Uh, 53% of children now own a smartphone by age 11.

Kara Swisher 49:14 Hm.

Scott Galloway 49:15 That has doubled since 2015. Three-quarters of children age two to five-

Kara Swisher 49:20 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 49:20 ... engage with YouTube regularly. And teens spend five hours a day on social media. Where do you think that five hours has come from? About-

Kara Swisher 49:27 Yeah. Sports.

Scott Galloway 49:28 ... 35% of their waking hours outside of school. And age gating, guess what folks? We age gate bars and restaurants serving alcohol, convenience stores-

Kara Swisher 49:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 49:36 ... gas stations, smoke shops, tobacco, cannabis dispensaries.

Kara Swisher 49:41 Driving. Can't drive till you're 16.

Scott Galloway 49:42 Casinos, sportsbooks, the DMV, online gambling sites, pornography, firearm retailers. Can Australia run the US-

Kara Swisher 49:49 Yes. I would like to he's a really interesting-

Scott Galloway 49:51 Th- they ban firearms. They have a super return fund to, for, for, to, to-

Kara Swisher 49:54 Yeah. They're very tough.

Scott Galloway 49:55 ... invest.

Kara Swisher 49:55 They go out into the m- ... They go out into the-

Scott Galloway 49:57 By the way, I'm going there.

Kara Swisher 49:58 ... rural, the outback.

Scott Galloway 49:58 I tell you I'm going there? I'm going there for the holidays.

Kara Swisher 50:00 Oh. Oh, nice. Oh, yeah, you'll love it.

Scott Galloway 50:02 Yeah, I'm going to Sydney-

Kara Swisher 50:02 I was just there.

Scott Galloway 50:03 ... Cairns, Lizard Island-

Kara Swisher 50:03 I was just-

Scott Galloway 50:03 ... Great Barrier Reef.

Kara Swisher 50:04 ... there this year.

Scott Galloway 50:04 Super excited.

Kara Swisher 50:05 I was there. I'm going for my nephew's ... My nephew lives there. I'm going for his wedding next year. All right. We th- ... We love Australia.

Scott Galloway 50:10 You always have to one-up me.

Kara Swisher 50:11 I'm just telling you I'm going there. No, you're gonna have a great time.

Scott Galloway 50:11 You always have ... I'm just going to Sydney for a great New Year's party.

Kara Swisher 50:14 You're gonna have a great time. Uh, it's a wonderful place.

Scott Galloway 50:16 I love Australia.

Kara Swisher 50:17 Uh, uh, are ... They've got myriad of problems, but lot of other problems. But I gotta say, this was a winner for these people. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be right back. Okay, Scott, we're gonna do something a little different today. Time just announced its Person of the Year, which everyone thought it would be the architects of AI for 2025.

Kara Swisher 50:34 The cover shows Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Jensen Huang, uh, Fei-Fei Li, and a few others. Um, let me ask you, who would you have picked as the Time Person Thing/Thing of the Year? And I will tell you my choice.

Scott Galloway 50:50 I, you know, I really haven't thought about it. I mean, I can tell you who I'd like. My ... (laughs) I would've loved if they picked Mackenzie Bezos for her new type of giving. Um-

Kara Swisher 50:57 Excellent choice.

Scott Galloway 50:58 Um-

Kara Swisher 50:58 There you go.

Scott Galloway 50:59 Uh, uh, I like that-

Kara Swisher 51:01 $7 billion she's given away this year.

Scott Galloway 51:03 Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 51:04 Amazing.

Scott Galloway 51:04 There's definitely a different approach to what I'll call feminine giving versus masculine giving.

Kara Swisher 51:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 51:10 The, the ... I think the woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize is gonna play a seminal role.

Kara Swisher 51:14 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 51:14 I think Maduro's gonna be ... I think we're gonna have regime change in Venezuela. I don't know who's-

Kara Swisher 51:18 Let them do it themselves. That's my feeling, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 51:21 100%. 100%, but he ... Uh, anyway, well, we- ... I won't go there. But, um, give me a 30 seconds. Who would you pick?

Kara Swisher 51:28 I like Mackenzie. I think Mackenzie Scott. Ms. Kenzie Scott is her new full name. She doesn't use Bezos anymore. Um, I would pick ... (laughs) I'm gonna go pop culture actually. Um, I would pick, uh, K-Pop Demon Hunters because-

Scott Galloway 51:42 No.

Kara Swisher 51:43 I would. I would. Here's why. 'Cause I think y- you know, I know you didn't ... You don't pay attention to cultural things as much as I do-

Scott Galloway 51:49 No.

Kara Swisher 51:49 ... but, um-

Scott Galloway 51:50 I don't like culture, Kara.

Kara Swisher 51:51 I love it. And so, uh-

Scott Galloway 51:52 Occasionally I buy branded edibles. That's about it.

Kara Swisher 51:54 ... watching what happened at the Macy's parade, which everybody loved and made everybody feel good, was a moment. And at the center of that was a moment of, "Let's all, like, stop this hatefulness. Let's be interesting. Let's have all different ki-" There was country people, there was all kinds of people there. Like, it wasn't like ... It wasn't woke. It was just America. I felt really good about it, right? Um, uh, I think they represent a lot of things that I think we have to get back to, which is, um, which is the idea that differ- uh, that difference is okay. You shouldn't hide yourself. Um, the, the, the, the good feeling about this country and this world, like, feeling good about that we are, are, um ... We can be ... And I'm not a religious person. That we can be saved. There, there's a grace. There's-

Scott Galloway 52:39 Hm.

Kara Swisher 52:40 ... amazing grace. And that's what that, the music there, and I ... It's played on co- ... Any parent on their Spotify playlist or whatever of the year, whatever music pl- ... It's K-Pop Demon Hunters, which is amazing because kids are really responding to it. And so, it's not just it's ... It's not just the song Golden. It's not just, uh, you know, Take Down and everything else. It's a complex look at how difficult it is to deal with differences. And I just, uh, I find it to be one of the most moving cultural moments this year. Is ... And you know I, I want to pick Taylor Swift and Fate of Ophelia, which I loved. But, uh, uh, I think it, uh, I think it's a really ... You can see people as they listen to it. Um, and, uh, I know it sounds dumb, but do you remember Ted and ... Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure when they become the band that brings the ma- amer- ... Uh, the ... Their whole thing is in the future they become this band. Uh, what was it called? Hoarse or whatever. Um, which was funny. But that's what I felt like with this movie. It's like this could ... This unites people in a way I find very lovely. And so I would pick K-Pop Demon Hunters. Thank you.

Scott Galloway 53:43 Did you know my big, uh, and YEO ... I want to bring this back to me. Uh, I know I don't like to talk about it. You know I don't like to talk about myself, Kara. But-

Kara Swisher 53:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:51 ... there was something called YEO, and I joined when I was, like, 30 years old-

Kara Swisher 53:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:54 ... in San Francisco, which is supposed to be a feeder into YPO. And you get-

Kara Swisher 53:57 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:58 ... a mentor. The best part of it is you get a mentor who's a YPOer. And my mentor was the runner-up for, or one of the runner-ups for Person of the Year, uh, Times Person of the Year, and it was Bob Swanson. Do you remember him?

Kara Swisher 54:10 No. No.

Scott Galloway 54:12 He was the founder of Genentech.

Kara Swisher 54:14 Oh, okay. All right.

Scott Galloway 54:15 And he met me-

Kara Swisher 54:16 I thought that was Craig whatever you call it.

Scott Galloway 54:17 We met and, um, the, the loveliest guy. I mean, this is a guy, very busy, right? And he said-... uh, we met, we had lunch, and he said, and I said, I'm, I had just started Prophet, this bran- this strategy firm. And he said, "Would you..." He goes, "How can I be the most helpful?" I'm like, "You know, I sort of know what I'm doing, but I really don't." And he said, "Oh, I have an idea. I'll just f- I'll just shadow you for a day." Yeah, he met me in my office. Actually, met me at the gym. I, I worked out every day from 7:00 to 8:00. He met me at the gym, picked me up, took me to my office, and he just shadowed me for a full day. Meetings, client meetings. And he's a fairly, like, kind of quiet, like, not... He was sort of, like, like, you know, shorter guy, carried a few extra pounds, just sort of, kind of... I don't want to say blended in, obviously a genius. And he, he just shadowed me the whole day. And at the end of the day, he sat me down and he'd taken a bunch of notes, and he said, "Okay, great leaders listen more than they talk. You are not a great leader yet. You, you want to impress everybody. (laughs) You're talking too much." He, he said... (laughs) He had all these things that have stuck with me my whole life. He said, he said, "You don't underst- stand the difference between being right and being effective." He's like, "You're right a lot-"

Kara Swisher 55:31 Oh. Which you have... Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:32 "... but you're too aggressive and you're turning off people. You gotta think about, 'How am I effective here?'" And he just gave me a series of things. Anyways, that was my, my, my, my mentor story.

Kara Swisher 55:44 Oh my God, that's a wonderful story.

Scott Galloway 55:46 Oh, you know who I would pick just to, to, to stick my finger in Putin's eyes? I'd pick Navalny.

Kara Swisher 55:51 Oh! That's a great idea. Yeah, there's all kinds of people. I... You know, this is sort of an antiquated thing, the person of the year, but it still k- kind of, kind of works because it makes you think about things.

Scott Galloway 56:00 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 56:01 Um, so, uh, anyway, we do not think the architects of AI deserve it. Um, I don't, at least. I think there's a much more uplifting story about to happen over the next year.

Scott Galloway 56:10 Oh, God. Such a snooze.

Kara Swisher 56:12 I'm telling you, it is. I know-

Scott Galloway 56:13 Such a snooze.

Kara Swisher 56:13 ... "architects of AI." You're kidding.

Scott Galloway 56:15 But to tell you what, though-

Kara Swisher 56:15 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 56:15 ... realistically who it should be?

Kara Swisher 56:17 What?

Scott Galloway 56:17 It should probably be Jensen Huang.

Kara Swisher 56:19 No. No.

Scott Galloway 56:20 I hate it when they have multiple people or they don't pick a person.

Kara Swisher 56:22 No, he's just able to wear his coat and act like a lesbian and kiss up to Trump. No.

Scott Galloway 56:25 No, he's built a pretty important company.

Kara Swisher 56:27 He doesn't... I understand, but I'm not, I'm, uh, uh... Like, time will tell, as they say. Anyway, you've got to get going because you arrived late and you've got to leave early. But, um, uh, I, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for this show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Uh, elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on Pro- Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with Tristan Harris, former Google design ethicist and co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology. I know him well. He's fantastic. Let's listen to a clip.

Scott Galloway 56:58 The US beat China to the technology of social media. Did that make us stronger or did that make us weaker? If you beat an adversary to a technology, but th- you then don't govern it in a, in a wise way, and you instead, like, you build this gun, you flip it around and you blow your own brain off, which is what we did with social media, we have the worst critical thinking test scores, you know, m- mental health, anxious, depressed generation in history. And it's a confusing picture because GDP is going up, but sort of cancer is going up too. So it's like we have the Magnificent Seven, we're profiting from, you know, all the wealth of these companies, but it's actually not being distributed to everybody, except those who are invested in the stock market. And that profit is based on the degradation of our social fabric.

Kara Swisher 57:42 I love that guy. He's been going at it, just for a long time.

Scott Galloway 57:44 Yeah, he's been doing it.

Kara Swisher 57:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 57:45 He's been a, he's kind of the original gangster of all things are-

Kara Swisher 57:48 Always.

Scott Galloway 57:48 ... not right in Mudville.

Kara Swisher 57:50 They are r- uh, you are absolutely right and they, they can't stand it. But he's been right then and he's right now, and that was great. That was a terrific, uh, thing he said.

Scott Galloway 57:57 But the, the nicest part of the interview was I asked him-

Kara Swisher 57:59 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 57:59 ... who's been most influential in his life and he said that his mother, and that she was nothing but pure love.

Kara Swisher 58:04 Oh, wow.

Scott Galloway 58:04 Which I really like.

Kara Swisher 58:05 Oh, lovely. He would, that would, that would-

Scott Galloway 58:06 He's a nice man.

Kara Swisher 58:07 Yeah, that would appeal to you, I'm sure. Um, and before we go, I'm interviewing Dara Khosrowshahi, the CEO of Uber, and Chris Urmson, the CEO of Aurora, live on stage at the Hopkins Bloomberg Center in Washington DC on Monday, December 15th. These are gonna be two really sharp conversations about applied AI and autonomous vehicles. I'm very excited. They're both... Chris was the original Google, uh, car, uh, um, autonomous car projects at Google. I think he's great too, and both of them. I've known Dara for a long time. Really smart thinkers. To register for free tickets, Google Hopkins and Kara Swisher. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. (instrumental music plays) Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 58:48 Today's show was produced by Lara Nehme and Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Innertaut engineered this episode. Rich Shibley edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Brosne, Samira and Dan Shallon. Ashok Karwats, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. (instrumental music plays)