Did Gavin Newsom Just Become the Best Democratic Nominee for President? | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 I think Gavin Newsom is now coming out of this the de facto leader of the Democratic Party.

Kara Swisher 0:04 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 0:04 And that was a void the size of the fricking Grand Canyon.

Kara Swisher 0:10 (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:17 And I'm Scott Galloway. This episode is presented by IBM.

Kara Swisher 0:21 I am about to be in a city that is having a military parade, Scott. I am wishing I had gotten out of town. We'll talk about that in a minute, but ...

Scott Galloway 0:32 Oh, are you, are you in L.A.?

Kara Swisher 0:33 I'm in D.C.

Scott Galloway 0:34 You're in D.C.

Kara Swisher 0:34 No, no, not L.A. There's nothing. I have all the tanks here. That's where the actual, uh, insurrection-

Scott Galloway 0:39 Oh, really?

Kara Swisher 0:39 ... is going on, yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:40 That's what I thought. Uh, literally, why doesn't he just stay at home-

Kara Swisher 0:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:44 ... and like, like masturbate to The Apprentice martial law episode or something? I mean-

Kara Swisher 0:50 I don't know. I don't know.

Scott Galloway 0:52 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:52 There's tanks.

Scott Galloway 0:53 Can you believe it? A military par- (laughs) A military parade.

Kara Swisher 0:56 It's insane. It's insane. It's, the last time I was recalling one was during the Bush admin- the first Bush administration. There was, it was after something with Ir- Iraq. I don't know. It was something. But he had a lot of military people, and it was very disconcerting. And it wasn't like this gang here. It's like there's a lot here. It's sort of like North Korea plus Old Russia kind of stuff. And, uh, the only thing I remember is a stealth bomber going down the Mall, uh, in Washington from the Capitol to the, to the Washington Monument. And it was terrifying. It, I was like, "This is not America." Like, the stealth bomber. Even though it was cool and enormous, but it was just chilling to the entire crowd.

Scott Galloway 1:36 Yeah, I mean, we, we won't, (laughs) we don't wanna put tanks on the ground in Ukraine as Russian troops pour over the border. But a guy wants to roll out tanks as he, you know, shit-posts or tweets from a golf cord- golf cart in orthopedic shoes. I mean, the whole thing is just such cosplaying masculinity. It's so weird.

Kara Swisher 1:55 It is. It's so sad.

Scott Galloway 1:56 It's so ...

Kara Swisher 1:56 It keeps, every, every one of these things I'm thinking, how small is this? Well, anyway. Anyway, uh, we got a lot to get to today, including Elon groveling and Trump and China making nice for now. And just for everyone to know, next week, Scott and I will be together in France again.

Scott Galloway 2:12 That's right.

Kara Swisher 2:13 Our annual trip to France.

Scott Galloway 2:14 They tried to keep us out, so it's the impenetrable Maginot Line.

Kara Swisher 2:19 Was that your French accent?

Scott Galloway 2:19 I used to do amazing accents. Now it sounds like-

Kara Swisher 2:21 Really? It's German.

Scott Galloway 2:22 ... a dead language that twins speak to each other.

Kara Swisher 2:24 I don't think-

Scott Galloway 2:24 I could do a, I could do an amazing Glaswegian accent. No.

Kara Swisher 2:28 You could, oh my God, you could even do-

Scott Galloway 2:29 Calendars.

Kara Swisher 2:30 ... Pepe Le Pew, that famous, uh, date rapist, Pepe Le Pew. You could do that, uh, really good.

Scott Galloway 2:35 Oh, you didn't love Pepe Le Pew?

Kara Swisher 2:36 Oh my God, he's, it's so bad when you watch it now. It's literally-

Scott Galloway 2:40 Oh, it's the best. Come here, my love.

Kara Swisher 2:41 It's literally Harvey Weinstein of com-

Scott Galloway 2:42 Come here, my love.

Kara Swisher 2:44 ... of cartoons. It really is. You're like (gasps) .

Scott Galloway 2:46 All right.

Kara Swisher 2:47 Like, go back and look at it.

Scott Galloway 2:47 Between Pepe Le Pew-

Kara Swisher 2:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:50 ... I Dream of Jeannie-

Kara Swisher 2:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:53 ... and what was the other really sexist thing I was watching all the time?

Kara Swisher 2:55 Oh my God, uh, th- Three's Company.

Scott Galloway 2:57 Oh, The Price is Right.

Kara Swisher 2:58 Oh.

Scott Galloway 2:58 And now a new car and a woman in a bathing suit showing you the new car.

Kara Swisher 3:01 I know. That one was tame compared to like, um, oh, they're all terrible. I liked I Dream of Jeannie. I hate to say it, but it was really sexist with that outfit and she was sat doing-

Scott Galloway 3:10 Yes, master.

Kara Swisher 3:11 ... "Yes, master."

Scott Galloway 3:11 Jeannie, go to your bottle.

Kara Swisher 3:13 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 3:13 Is it, I'm literally the only, everyone should, should just appreciate-

Kara Swisher 3:17 Kids don't know what we're talking about here.

Scott Galloway 3:18 ... how far I've come.

Kara Swisher 3:19 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:19 How far I have come.

Kara Swisher 3:20 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:21 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:21 Why? Why have you come? You, you liked I Dream of ... I liked I Dream of ... I still like I Dream of Jeannie. I'm sorry, Barbra and Ross.

Scott Galloway 3:27 Yeah, I wouldn't ... But watching, I'm not exaggerating. I watched two hours a day of I Dream of Jeannie during my formative years.

Kara Swisher 3:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:33 And I'm not sure that was the right baseline level for how you-

Kara Swisher 3:37 I thought the same thing. That's why we love each other.

Scott Galloway 3:38 ... interact with women.

Kara Swisher 3:38 I watched, I loved I Dream of Jeannie and watched it all the time.

Scott Galloway 3:41 Oh, I bet you did, you little lesbo.

Kara Swisher 3:42 (laughs) I am a little lesbian.

Scott Galloway 3:44 I think essentially Jeff Bezos is this, is I Dream of Jeannie. He finds a 2,000-year-old magical woman with Botox, and instead of freeing her, makes her his roommate. This, it's Jeff Bezos. It's literally Jeff Bezos is I Dream of Jeannie.

Kara Swisher 3:58 Anyway, that, kids, look up I Dream of Jeannie and watch it sometime. It's really, it's, it's a, it's a classic. Anyway, uh, we've got a lot to get to today, as I said, Elon groveling and Trump and China making nice for now. But there's a lot going on, including the protests against Trump administration's immi- uh, immigration raids are now spreading nationwide. Nice job, Trump. Trump is claiming that Los Angeles would have been completely obliterated without National Guard deployment, which is a flat-out lie. For, talk to anybody in Los Angeles, it's ridiculous, uh, you know, unless you're watching Fox News and then it's true. Um, he also deployed 700 marines in the L.A. area against the objections of every single group of people, most of whom don't get along. In recent days, Trump has floated invoking the Insurrection Act, a law that grants the president the authority to deploy the military on U.S. soil. It's a big move. California Governor Gavin Newsom, uh, who has gotten a lot of attention and is doing quite a good job pushing back, spoke out about Trump's actions in a televised address on Tuesday, calling this a perilous moment for democracy. Let's listen to some of that speech.

Narrator 4:58 California may be first, but it clearly will not end here. Other states are next. Democracy is next. Democracy is under assault before our eyes. This moment we have feared has arrived. He's taking a wrecking ball, a wrecking ball to our founding fathers' historic project, three co-equal branches of

Narrator 5:20 independent government. There are no longer any checks and balances. Congress is nowhere to be found. Speaker Johnson has completely abdicated that responsibility. The rule of law has increasingly been given way to the rule of Don.

Kara Swisher 5:35 Well done, Gavin, I have to say. He's, he's l- he's, he's taken, he's taken every opportunity here to show himself off, which he is. Uh, more protests are expected this weekend, uh, tied to the massive military parade in D.C. that's officially, as I noted, celebrating the Army's 250th birthday. But just so happens to fall on Trump's 79th birthday, which will call attention to the fact that the man is really old. The No Kings protests are set to be the largest nationwide mobilization since Trump took office. These look like astonishing actually. They're all over the place. Trump is already warning that any protesters at the parade will be met with very big force, whatever that is. They are allowed to protest, by the way, FYI. But m- many of the No Kings people are saying don't protest in D.C. and give him a reason to, to attack us. But they're, they are pretty much nationwide. Um-Uh, first, let's talk about Newsom, and then, uh, y- uh, let me just also add that, um, Tom Cotton, as usual, popped up like a bad penny, uh, with an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal titled Send in the Troops for Real, playing off his infamous New York Times op-ed in 2020. Um, we're recording this ahead of Trump's military parade, which is on Saturday. Uh, t- talk a little bit about Newsom, Trump, these, these protests. Um, it, it feels very North Korean to me, but your thoughts?

Scott Galloway 6:53 I think Newsom, um, has basically identified himself right now. I think he's the big winner in all of this. Um, I think he kind of accidentally has become the spokesperson for the pushback. And so I think i- i- this- one of the silver linings here is that it is w- we now have what is kind of a de facto leader of the Democratic Party, and I think it's... Essentially, Governor Newsom leads the fourth-largest economy in the world. It's a net giver in terms of federal tax income. For all the problems California has, it's, it's actually, on most metrics, doing really well, whether it's a center of the newest technology in the world, more people are moving back to California now, and California has more billionaires than any other state. These are people with options. For all the shit-posting these techno-libertarians like to do about California, they could move anywhere in the world and they decide to stay in, see above, California. And so he-

Kara Swisher 7:50 FYI, Scott, they're all back, just so you know. They are all back.

Scott Galloway 7:52 Yeah, you've been saying that for a while. You said there was gonna be a boomerang-

Kara Swisher 7:55 I told you it was coming back-

Scott Galloway 7:55 ... and you were right.

Kara Swisher 7:55 ... because of AI, especially, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 7:57 So look, and anyone who has driven up, driven up Highway 1 or, or checked out the surfers at Zuma Beach or been to the Hollywood Bowl or, I mean, (laughs) it just, or, or been in the desert. It's, it, and seen a sunset in the desert or been to Carmel or Yosem- I mean, you just... Yeah, it's, it is, (laughs) it, it's, it's arguably the most beautiful country in the world. It just happens to be a, a state within, in the United States, and it offers the best universities, best technology. Anyway, he has become, sort of overnight, kind of the spokesperson for or the leader of the Democratic Party. The, the bad news here is that I think a lot of these protesters are playing into Trump's hands. And that is you can't, you can't tell people how to protest, but when you see images... So for example, I, I, you know, if you could give the protesters... If the protesters are generally trying to help their own cause, and that is say, "Look, a lot of us have been here for 10 years. It's one thing if you want to deport criminals, but if you're deporting people... If you're rounding up people at a Home Depot that have paid their taxes for 20 years and then going to their schools and their churches, I don't think most people are on board with that."

Kara Swisher 9:04 No, they're not. According to polling, not at all, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 9:07 But in my opinion, they hurt their own cause when they show up with more Mexican flags than American flags. And I understand what they're doing, but keep in mind, a lot of Trump supporters and a lot of moderates, when they see protesters with Mexican flags, they think invasion. And the, the things that really hurt this protest, in my mind, and there's nothing you can do about it 'cause it's free speech, when sho- someone shows up with a Palestinian flag and a mask, what people see as terrorism. So, and unfortunately, the media will cover those limited instances, which are 0.01% of these protests, as opposed to covering a really thoughtful civil protest with signs, and that's what most of this is. And just to show you how incredibly asinine this is, how the snake is eating its own tail, is that if y- who is the National Guard that's been pulled or deployed or activated? A lot of them are cops. A lot of them are people who work in law enforcement, and a lot of them are in this division called the Rattlesnakes that Governor Newsom uses for f- fire reclamation or clearing out brush, and then they get called up to the National Guard. But during the day, if they get called up to be police officers or if the LAPD gets called up, the LAPD is being deployed... Additional LADPD de- forces are being to- deployed to where the National Guard is because the National Guard's presence increases hostilities and likelihoods-

Kara Swisher 10:38 Right, which is why-

Scott Galloway 10:39 ... of violence. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 10:39 ... the police department is like, "Get the fuck out of here." Like, "We're, we've- we're handling it."

Scott Galloway 10:43 So the LAPD has to be deployed to protect the National Guard-

Kara Swisher 10:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 10:46 ... who is creating problems-

Kara Swisher 10:49 Of course.

Scott Galloway 10:49 ... and dissent and agita where there doesn't need to be any.

Kara Swisher 10:52 I do think that is sinking into people. They're like, "What are they doing here?" And especially in areas, um, that o- that... I think the protests, uh, uh, I get it. They're gonna play the picture of the, the burning Waymo over and over again. The flags don't look good. But I think this weekend will be interesting because one o- I think this No Kings thing, uh, uh, could be really effective 'cause they're... uh, I was just looking at some of the stuff, and Amanda was pointing out to me, like, they have 20 different No Kings events in Maine. Like, and they're very oversubscribed, kind of. They think a lot of people are gonna show up. So if there's a peaceful show of support, I think Americans do like that. They don't... A- and the Republicans have tried to weaponize protesting, right? They're trying to say protesting is insurrection when in fact, of course, and because they're the most hit- critical group on the planet, you know, the real insurrection was of course that attack on the Capitol. And so it, uh, when it suits them, they say protests are dangerous. When it suits them, they say they're patriotic tourist visits or whatever they call it. What I... I think they, they continue... I think pe- the penny seems to be dropping with a lot more people, I think, than you think.

Scott Galloway 12:00 I hope so. I really do, because, um, I think that at the end of the day, this is... I mean, uh, well, first off, le- uh, let's go to some historical analogies here, right? Uh, Kent State, right? The, the Ohio National Guard hopped up on authority and bad intel, basically killed four kids protesting the Vietnam War. And, uh, the governor called in troops to, quote-unquote, "restore order." Right? That sound familiar? He didn't restore anything. He radicalized (laughs) a generation and permanently scarred the American psyche.... the, the, the really, the best analogy here is Hitler in the '30s, the Reichstag Fire decree. And that is, he wanted to consolidate power. So, when an autocrat wants to consolidate power, essentially, Hitler didn't invade Poland to consolidate power, he invaded civil liberties. And he, and what, the playbook here is you use the threat of chaos to invoke emergency powers and suspend basic rights and criminalize dissent, and that's exactly what's going on here. And this is essentially, President Trump is lighting a match and kind of pointing at the smoke, so to speak.

Kara Swisher 13:10 Which is why I don't think there's a lot of push, a lot more pushback than you, I think there's a lot of pushback. Every s- every Democratic governor is now prepared, has seen his playbook, are handle, are trying to handle this in a different way. Um, I think he's just incompetent at it. Now I know, again, you don't have to be competent to be, to do this, you can be cloddish and idiotic. But it, it, to me, I mean, the question is will, it, which message will get through? And I do think Newsom has been an effective messenger, finally, right? And so, it's a question of messaging is, we're not, we, we've been trying to get out of cr- he's also, every time he speaks, he goes, "We've worked to remove criminals, immigrants from our count-, you know, from our state. We do it all the time." And, but these are, but these, there was images today of ICE people chasing farm workers across a field. This is not, this is weird to people, especially employers, it's w- it's weird. You know, it starts to hit businesses because of, they, 'cause Stephen Miller can't find enough immigrants. It's a similar, reminds me a little bit of Dodge, they didn't really find as much, right? They didn't find as much trouble, they're, they have to go after law-abiding people who are here illegally, uh, who are paying taxes. I, I feel like which of the dueling messages is gonna work, is, is, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see which one it is.

Scott Galloway 14:31 When, when ICE has to go to, to a Home Depot-

Kara Swisher 14:34 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 14:35 ... a church or a school-

Kara Swisher 14:36 And a field.

Scott Galloway 14:37 But it, it's a larger point, and that is are these the people we should be kicking out (laughs) ? I mean, are these church-going people working at Home Depot picking your crops? Are those really the people you want out? And, uh, so, look, I hope you're right. I, if I could, you can't manage or procure or manicure First Amendment speech, but if I had any advice, if I wanted to say, I've struggled my whole life with the difference between being right and being effective. And I think civil protest against, you know, the No Kings movement, it's very powerful, they're right. Where they lose all effectiveness and play into the enemy's hands is when they show up with masks, Palestinian flags and Mexican flags. Bring the fucking American flags and be civil and be, make it impossible... I remember once you said to me, I always used to say very provocative things, and all of a sudden people were attacking me on Twitter, and you said something, you said, "Scott, don't give them anything." And right now, I worry sometimes the protesters, and I, and I'll give you an ex-, I mean, I'm really Machiavellian. If I were part of this Trump MAGA weird fucked up Stephen Miller movement, I'd send out 100 people with Palestinian flags and masks-

Kara Swisher 15:49 Oh, I'm sure.

Scott Galloway 15:49 ... to try and cause trouble.

Kara Swisher 15:50 Yeah. Yes. I get it. That's, you know-

Scott Galloway 15:50 To invoke an overreaction and to give people-

Kara Swisher 15:52 And they would do exactly what they claim other people do, the false flags and all the nonsense.

Scott Galloway 15:56 And, and to give people the impression-

Kara Swisher 15:58 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 15:58 ... that these people on the Left are out of fucking control.

Kara Swisher 16:01 Yeah, they could do that.

Scott Galloway 16:01 And, and get your anger glands going such that-

Kara Swisher 16:04 I don't know if they're competent enough to do that.

Scott Galloway 16:06 Yeah, I hope not.

Kara Swisher 16:06 I don't think so.

Scott Galloway 16:07 I hope not.

Kara Swisher 16:07 I think they are not competent, actually. They're just-

Scott Galloway 16:09 More American flags, less masks.

Kara Swisher 16:11 I would agree, but I do think this has not been a protest that's given them enough stuff. Like, the Floyd, the George Floyd ones-

Scott Galloway 16:18 Oh, yeah. I, they're, I think they're disappointed at how civil it is (laughs) .

Kara Swisher 16:20 ... they don't have enough. I know. They don't have enough stuff and if this too, if this, if this, if this No Kings seems bigger than this military parade, it's, it's, it's a, it's a

Kara Swisher 16:28 dueling messages here. So, one of the things that doesn't help the Trump people, there's new reporting, this incredible piece in ProPublica, uh, on Trump's favorite autocrats, President, uh, Bukele of, um, El Salvador. The US investi- a US investigation found that Bukele colluded with MS-13. Of course he did. Even paying the gangs for votes, according to ProPublica, and despite his crime-fighting reputation, Bukele has his top aides blocking extraditions of MS-13 leaders to the US. Um, this guy is working hand-in-glove, so US money is going to pay MS-13 people. This piece is astonishing. And of course, no surprise whatsoever. This guy is such a, a sleazy... He, he presents sleazy and he is sleazy. Um, and the way he's gotten into, you know, this is like the plot of a Harrison Ford movie, of a Jack, you know, a Clancy, Tom Clancy thing where the, the alleged good guy crime fighter is like up in, up in the grill of drug dealers and other people. So this piece is really not great for Trump, 'cause it looks like Trump is paying for MS-13 leaders, um, to stay out of too-

Scott Galloway 17:35 I don't even think it'll rise to the top, like-

Kara Swisher 17:37 I don't know. I think it, it has a little minute. I, I sent it to a lot of people I know from El Salvador, I'm like, "You might want to read this." Like, uh, 'cause they do, they, they, it looks like he's not, um, pushing back crime, he's just, like, he's getting MS-, one of the things in the story is he's getting people, like there was a lot of crime in the streets and so there'd be dead bodies in the streets and what MS-13 is doing at his behest is burying them. So, it's, you know, it's sort of, I don't know. This guy is, I think this guy is-

Scott Galloway 18:04 But I think if you, I mean, what I was trying to do was I try and step back from the, you know, forest, if you will, or, or get outside the matrix. I think the biggest takeaway is, I think this is all gonna calm down. I think, to your point, I think the administration realizes, "No, this isn't working as well as we'd hoped." Um, one, I think the big takeaways here are that, I think, to your point, a lot of states are gonna prepare for this. This has created, I think, a bit of an, uh, like a fascist indigestion. Uh, I do think more and more people are like, "Wow, is this really..."I mean, it- the- all of these emergency- fake emergency orders to violate people's rights, it seems like it's going really far. Two, I do think that Newsom is now kind of the de facto party leader. Um, and, um, I, uh... But the biggest thing is that it's been- it will be a two-week distraction from thoughtful, robust discussion about th- around this tax bill. Um, which is really- will have much more impact on the nation than- than- than, um, than this.

Kara Swisher 19:04 Absolutely. But let me just say, and then this is not in here, but these polls that are coming out, the Quinnipac- Quinnipac show very bad polling for Trump on immigration. He's- he's underwater on every issue, including the bill, right? Including Medicaid cuts, including immigration.

Scott Galloway 19:19 I thought he was still positive on immigration. I thought that was the one thing he still had a positive on.

Kara Swisher 19:23 No, no. No, no. It's- it's not. Uh, he is way down. And there- th- we'll see how the rest of them, but there's several polls where he's show- where people are, including- what's more interesting is obviously Democrats are gonna be against all this stuff, but Republicans, uh, are particularly irked. And they were irked by the Elon thing, too. That seemed to have set their nose- set- set them off. Um, and so these poll- this polling is interesting, is he's not- uh, it doesn't give him strength with going into this bill. Um, because polling is showing that y- that people don't like it, don't like the bill itself. And so I- I do think at some point, the Republican members of Congress are gonna look very carefully at these polls. Um, and if Trump is not as strong as he, um, as he seems, it- it- it'll- it'll take some shine off of him, I think. I think it absolutely does. Um, 'cause projection of strength when polling is showing lack of th- strength is- is to me a problem. Um, speaking of lack of anything, Trump says the US and China have a trade deal again. It's essentially the old deal, uh, which- going back to zero. He posted on Truth Social, "The deal is done, pending final approval of both him and President Xi." It's such nonsense. According to Trump, China will resume shipments of rare earth minerals, though the Wall Street Journal reports China put a six-month limit on those export licenses. The US will roll back some of the export restrictions and scrap proposed visa limits on Chin- Chinese students. More- more taco. But tr- tariffs will remain. US tariffs on Chinese goods will now total 55%, while Chinese tariffs on American products are 10%. It- we're back... I feel like we're ba- we're back at square one. It surprise, um, no one, of course, also that Trump is highly likely to push back his July 8th deadline to reach trade deals according to Treasury Secretary Bessent. This- this is like spinning wheels. It's like... And it- and you're back exactly where you started, essentially.

Scott Galloway 21:11 Yeah, that's been our prediction all along, that after all of this nonsense, after this erosion of brand equity of the US, after creating a brand association toxic uncertainty, we're gonna end up kind of where we were before the tariffs. I would argue we may even be a little bit worse off. They have-

Kara Swisher 21:24 Worse off 'cause if the brand is...

Scott Galloway 21:26 Well, but even-

Kara Swisher 21:26 US brand is broken.

Scott Galloway 21:27 Even on straight empirical terms, because I think China has recognized they have a very strong hand because of their, of all things, their rare earth mineral magnets-

Kara Swisher 21:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:35 ... which I guess are key to automakers. They kind of have a-

Kara Swisher 21:38 They- they're key to a lot of people. Lot of company.

Scott Galloway 21:40 They have... And they kind of have a monopoly on. And again, the- the calculus these guys just haven't been able to do is they look at both sides of the equation and who is bigger or where the- the sum is greater, but what they forget is that it's a different scale, because China will starve people. You know, we freak out when our Netflix goes- goes down for 30 minutes. Um, it's just, uh, their tolerance for pain is much greater than ours. And their leadership's ability or willingness to impose pain for national interests are just, you know... It- it's just such a different system. We- we say to our companies, you know, our companies that donate money to PACS who get people nominated 'cause of gerrymandering... So essentially you have kind of corporate profits sort of are the most- at this point are the most influential thing. Uh, America's run for profit, you know, uh, China's run for power, and that is they decide what would be best, uh, according to the CCP would be best for the long-term interest of China according to them. And for them, they- the number one thing is, "We maintain power." But it's- it's- it's different, and kind of the long-term thinking, if you will, is much more on China's side, because they're not worried about quarterly earnings. They're not worried about BYD hitting its numbers this quarter for fear that BYD isn't going to give money to the CCB, 'cause basically all the money BYD has is in the CCP's...

Kara Swisher 23:00 Control.

Scott Galloway 23:01 Um, yeah, control. (laughs) So...

Kara Swisher 23:02 Yeah, I- I- i- this is-

Scott Galloway 23:03 Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 23:03 ... just ridiculous. This is so... He- you know what he should've just done is settled the situation in Gaza and settled the situation in Ukraine. He'd look- he'd get his famous Nobel Prize, right? Like, that's all he had to do, and shut the fuck up instead of all this manic... He confuses... Uh, there's an expression I use with people. I- I used it when I was a manager, and I'm not a manager anymore, but that people that confuse activity with productivity, right? Like, people that are manic and move around a lot, y- they look like they're doing things. Um, it's sort of like, "Look busy, Jesus is coming," kind of thing. They- e- this guy confuses activity with productivity, and none of this is productive whatsoever, and it makes us look stupider, and it gives an enormous amount of tells to all kinds of people, whether it's Europeans or Chinese or whoever we're dealing with. Everyone can tell what's gonna happen here. Um, you know, wor- world's worst poker player of all time, like really. The- the sucker, when the- when you don't know who the sucker in the room is, it is- as it's turned out, Trump. Um, but it just, uh, I find this just ridiculous waste of our time, um, and not good for the US economy. Um, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon's caving continues. What a surprise.

Narrator 24:22 Test, test, check one, two. You know you need Unique New York. You know you need Unique New York. Does that sound alright? Ahh, that's better.You can always tell something's missing when you get isolated results, like AI that's only right for one of your systems. Get AI that can work across your data and applications. Learn more at ibm.com. The AI built for business, IBM.

Kara Swisher 24:52 Scott, we're back. Elon Musk says he regrets some, and only some, of his recent posts, he didn't say which ones, about President Trump, writing in an X post at 3:00 AM this week that, quote, "They went too far," although he didn't exactly say which posts or what he meant in which ones. The public groveling comes after a private phone call with Elon reaching out to Trump late Monday, according to the New York Times. Vice President J.D. Vance and White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles were reportedly the peacemakers pushing Elon to repair his relation with Trump. When asked about Elon's, uh, post, Trump told the New York Post, "I thought it was very nice that he did that." Um, I, I don't know what to say. What a... M- it's just, I, I don't think he can hold on after, if Trump does some things he doesn't like. I think he'll, he'll have another 3:00 AM something else happening, but we'll see. Um, he's trying to turn his attention to Tesla, hyping the robo-taxi launch in Austin this next week. He says it, it could slide because Tesla is being super paranoid about safety. Uh, also, um, we'll talk about this advertising thing in a second, but talk about this apology. I mean, it's just, uh, uh, Trump's never letting him back. That's what I read from it. And Susie Wiles has played this beautifully, um, in, in jacking this guy out of the picture and is, by the way, speaking of polling, his polling's even worse than Trump's.

Scott Galloway 26:09 Yeah, I think he's... I think right now he looks like a dog roaming around with one of those domes.

Kara Swisher 26:15 Mm-hmm. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 26:16 You know? It's like, okay, I've ju-

Kara Swisher 26:18 I'm gonna get you one of those.

Scott Galloway 26:19 (laughs) I've just been neutered and I look stupid and I'm upset and depressed. I think he's just walking around with his dog dome right now. He just, he, he, he... The, the president is more powerful than Elon, and I think he was under the impression that, you know, "I'm, I'm invincible. I'm Rocket Man. I'm Iron Man." And, and he gets into a fight, uh, it's a giant fucking distraction. He's not gonna get anywhere near the West Lawn again unless it's highly catered and manicured. And I just thought it was so funny listening to all these Fox people talk about how sad it was the fight was. And they're like, they don't seem to be worried about Ukraine or Gaza. They don't, they just don't s- but they're just so, like, heartbroken over (laughs) the breakup-

Kara Swisher 27:01 I know, right?

Scott Galloway 27:02 ... of Musk and Trump.

Kara Swisher 27:03 They all turned on Musk in a second after being his biggest cheerleaders, which was hysterical to see.

Scott Galloway 27:09 Yeah. Uh, it, again, another... shit, I don't know. Another-

Kara Swisher 27:12 I know. It's sad.

Scott Galloway 27:14 Another, another distraction. Who cares?

Kara Swisher 27:17 Yeah. Yeah. And his robo-taxi thing is, I mean, it's incredible how many people are using Waymo even though some of them got destroyed in Los Angeles. But, um, we'll see if he catches up. Uh, I mean, I, I-

Scott Galloway 27:27 You're not going to the launch event? The, the, the...

Kara Swisher 27:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:29 I mean, I was looking at it last night.

Kara Swisher 27:31 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:31 2015-

Kara Swisher 27:33 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:33 ... he said it was gonna be two years.

Kara Swisher 27:35 Said it was gonna be.

Scott Galloway 27:35 And then every year since 2016, he's said it's gonna, that self-drive is gonna come within the...

Kara Swisher 27:38 Every interview I've ever done with him, he's like, "Well, next year when we have full self-driving." (laughs)

Scott Galloway 27:43 It's gonna come within the year, yeah.

Kara Swisher 27:44 And, and I was, it was, one of my interviews was in a lawsuit where he lied about it, right? Where... And then he said the interview was fake. It was just crazy. He's said it so many times, um, and it was, got comical after a while. It's like, "Oh, this year? This year? Is it gonna be this year?" And of course, we'll see. I'm sure they'll get them out on the streets, 'cause, uh, other people are deploying them, so he can just copy them. But I feel like, uh, I, I don't think this is gonna ma- be the winning move for him. And also, for people who don't know, the, their, the, the Optimus robot thing is the other thing they're trying to do at Tesla, and the person who ran it just left. There's all these people leaving Tesla. Um, I think it's in a-

Scott Galloway 28:22 Well, he needs-

Kara Swisher 28:23 ... I think it's gonna spiral.

Scott Galloway 28:23 ... it's gonna

Scott Galloway 28:24 be interesting 'cause he has a launch event, they, which they-

Kara Swisher 28:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:26 ... delayed another couple weeks. It's being in a, done in a geo-fenced area of Austin-

Kara Swisher 28:30 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:30 ... to try and control it. But even he said, "Okay, I've got..." Um, he said, "Tesla is either gonna be worth a lot more with, uh, self-autonomous," and Cathie Wood's out there saying that autonomous is the future and putting $1,000, $1,000 price target on, uh, Tesla. Or he said, "Or it's gonna be worth next to zero." And if you were to value Tesla as just an automobile company and say, "All right, it looks like they've, are losing/lost the autonomous race," and you valued every Tesla at the same market cap as BYD, which is generous 'cause BYD is doing better and it seems to have a better car for less money. But if you gave Tesla the benefit of the doubt and said, "Okay, it's at least a BYD-like brand," and gave them the same market cap per vehicle that BYD commands, it would mean that Tesla stock would, uh, decline by 95%.

Kara Swisher 29:22 It's such a brand destruction. You know, I honestly, Scott, when I s- I, when I see them on the street, I don't let them in. I don't know why. I g- I just hate the brand now. Like, and I liked the brand. I really did like the Tesla brand. Um, but I, I, I just don't like people in them, and I know that's unfair. I feel like a jerk for doing that. Um, uh, you know, first time in a while I saw the Cybertruck in DC. There were a bunch of them here at the beginning of the Trump era, and I, I saw one and I hadn't seen one in a while. And having seen it not in a while, it was like, "Oh, what a terrible..." Who s- who didn't stop him and say, "You can't do this. You cannot release this truck"?

Scott Galloway 30:00 Yeah, but just, just some compensation for that is, it's good to know that right now there are more National Guard troops and marines in LA than there are stationed in Syria or Iraq combined. I mean, who are you talking about? If you're, if you're the president... Uh, for me, it always comes back to management. What is a manager supposed to do? You're supposed to deploy capital to a greater return than your competitive set. And this is how he is deploying the military capital. He's taking it down in Syria and Iraq. He's not using his sway and power to force Israel to announce a multinational air force into Gaza and stop the destruction there. He's not, he's not figuring out a bipartisan legislation which he could get to put more teeth into the sanctions against Russia to get them to the table. He's sending in the National Guard (laughs) to fucking Paramount Boulevard, to like Culver City. I mean, he does not know how to allocate capital. I, I just don't... And at the end of the day, the president, folks... Who you want as a president-... is someone you don't hear about and is just a very good manager. And, and, yeah, and knows how to allocate more capital than any capital allocator in history. And this guy is just a-

Kara Swisher 31:07 Well, he never did.

Scott Galloway 31:07 ... terrible capital allocator.

Kara Swisher 31:07 Come on, he was such a shitty businessperson. Um, one of the things that my favorite part of, uh, we'll go back to the Zelly thing, is all these people posting pictures of, like, having lunch in LA and, like, (sighs) it's terrible here. Uh, there, there, there is a-

Scott Galloway 31:20 I grew up in LA and I'm-

Kara Swisher 31:20 ... there is a lot of AI slop, by the way. There's a-

Scott Galloway 31:22 ... I've texted all my friends.

Kara Swisher 31:24 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:24 And I said, "What's going on there? How is it?" And they're like, "You're watching the same thing I am. It's not..."

Kara Swisher 31:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:29 I mean, granted, a lot of my friends are pretty privileged. They're not living in, uh, downtown LA, but they're like, "Yeah, we haven't seen anything."

Kara Swisher 31:35 Yeah. I have friends all over LA and they're like, "This is fucking ridiculous." But a- anyway, there's a lot of AI slop out there, showing much worse than it is. It's just not true, a lot of the, a lot of the imagery that's being used. And Fox, of course, it's like, it's Armageddon there. It's like, I feel like they're using clips from that movie, Escape From LA, or something like that. Anyway, um, the second thing, this is interesting 'cause we're headed off to France which for, for Cannes Lions, um, and it's the, um, or is it Cannes Lion? I don't know. Um-

Scott Galloway 32:03 Cannes, it's called Cannes, I know it's not-

Kara Swisher 32:05 Cannes.

Scott Galloway 32:05 It's there, it's Cannes.

Kara Swisher 32:05 Cannes Lions, whatever.

Scott Galloway 32:06 Cannes Lions.

Kara Swisher 32:06 We're going to France.

Scott Galloway 32:07 Oh, yeah?

Kara Swisher 32:08 Um, underpants. Uh, and, uh, and, and advertising is the big deal here, but this was an interesting story and I don't know if Linda Yaccarino's gonna be there, but I hope not to see her. Um, Elon Musk's X has made a habit of threatening advertisers with legal action if they don't spend-

Scott Galloway 32:23 (laughs) I love that.

Kara Swisher 32:23 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 32:25 Advertiser with us or we'll sue your ass. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 32:26 Sue your ass. X has really used threats of lawsuits. This is a Wall Street Journal story, it was really interesting. It, everybody... I'd heard this from a lot of people. So, to secure at least six large advertisers, the pressure campaigns targeted advertisers like Amazon, Verizon, Pinterest, Ralph Lauren, including some of the illegally... Uh, uh, including, accusing of illegally, uh, colluding in an ad boycott after Musk take over the platform and the threats were an empty. Pinterest declined to increase ad spending on X and found itself added to the ad boycott suit, which is, they're gonna lose. And as the world goes these days, the FTC is investigating whether antitrust laws were violated by coordinated boycotts of advertisers. So, they're e- they're... I think this is probably gonna go away. Um, what in the fu- actual fuck? You, the, you have to, like, like, you have to take my ads if I don't think it's a safe p- you know, I'm sure they've made, uh, tried to make safety improvements on that platform, but it's not working. It's not, it's not a safe place to advertise so easily. It's so clearly not a safe place to advertise. What do you think about this? This is nuts.

Scott Galloway 33:26 I, I mean, I know very little about X now. I got off it two years ago, but NBC did a study and they found that over 150 verified premium accounts, I guess that's the blue check ones, uh, have all posted or amplified pro-Nazi content. And I think, I think the easiest way to get fired in media is to buy ads on X, 'cause if you buy ads on X, it's like going to work for the mob. There's no getting out. And so you're not allowed to leave. And what basically is happening here is there's a nonzero probability if you begin advertising on X, if you decide to stop, you might end up in a lawsuit. They might sue you. I can't think that's a good business strategy. I can't, I can't imagine how hard it must be to be... Generally speaking, ad salespeople, uh, that end up at Cannes, they're either former athletes or hot women, 'cause that's who media buyers wanna hang out with. And they're generally like 105 IQ, 135 EQ people. They're the f- they're the fraternity rush chairmen. They weren't the president, they weren't scholars, they're super social, super likable, nice people. And they make good money. Their, uh, their colleagues hate them 'cause they're the most overcompensated relative to their IQ and their work ethic. But they have... They're really attractive and, you know, th- th- they're nice people to hang out with. That job at X must be the worst job in the world right now. And I imagine most of the peop- salespeople at X are not threatening people. They're not.

Kara Swisher 34:47 Right.

Scott Galloway 34:47 They're probably just trying to sell fucking ear cleaner ads. I-

Kara Swisher 34:50 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 34:51 Whatever it is. They're pr- they're, they're doing their best to get L'Oreal to test again on this platform-

Kara Swisher 34:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 34:57 ... that doesn't work. And then I would imagine a lot of advertisers who have no shortage of places to spend their precious ad dollars-

Kara Swisher 35:04 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 35:05 ... are like, "Boss, why would I advertise with you? Is someone gonna call me and threaten to sue me if I decide to pause my campaign?"

Kara Swisher 35:11 Right, which they did.

Scott Galloway 35:11 "I don't need that shit."

Kara Swisher 35:12 Yeah, I think, uh, listen, Linda Yaccarino used to have a great reputation, it's bec- of this c- cadre of people. She's never gonna work in this business again.

Scott Galloway 35:21 Will she need to, though? My guess is he's... They're not dumb-

Kara Swisher 35:24 I know.

Scott Galloway 35:24 ... she prob- he probably promised-

Kara Swisher 35:26 I know. I know.

Scott Galloway 35:26 ... her enough fucking money and it's like, "Okay."

Kara Swisher 35:28 Yeah, but you know how he... how that works with him. Hmm, they, people who work for him don't always end up in the best places.

Scott Galloway 35:33 But it must be... But just realistically, Kara, uh, uh, he's been able to attract so many talented people to run different companies for him.

Kara Swisher 35:41 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 35:41 I don't believe that his comp- his compensation system must be very generous.

Kara Swisher 35:45 Possible. Well, I've heard different things. I've heard mixed things. The pe- a lot of people n- couldn't get out fast enough and then they didn't get what they were paid. Uh, he does-

Scott Galloway 35:54 Other assignments, yeah.

Kara Swisher 35:54 ... he does a combination of things. Uh, in this case, uh, it- it's- it is an embarrassment that, uh, someone who was a well-regarded advertising person is resorting to lawsuits in order to sell ads. It's, and in, in a paranoid fashion, I've heard from lots of people that she truly believes that there was a, it was a conspiracy. And because she's in that world, she lo- she's sort of a Trumper and everything else. But it's just, it's an embarrassment, Linda. You used to be... I worked with her, she was good. This is an embarrassment and she should be ashamed of herself, what she's doing. Anyway, she was good. She was really... She was the top one in, or one of the top people in this-

Scott Galloway 36:29 She worked at NBC, is that right?

Kara Swisher 36:31 She did. I worked with her. And she was, you know, she was an ad person, right? You know the, that type, and-

Scott Galloway 36:36 I sure do.

Kara Swisher 36:37 ... and good at it.

Scott Galloway 36:37 Those are the people I hang out with it. I like them.

Kara Swisher 36:39 Yeah. And good at, good at it but this is just... You have covered yourself in shame. Uh, and, and, and let me tell you, all of your old friends say that to me. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about OpenAI's Google deal. Scott, we're back with more news. OpenAI plans to use Google Cloud Service to meet its computing needs. The deal doesn't replace OpenAI's need for Microsoft's Azure, which, uh, uh, used to be the company's exclusive partner. Google is not yet delivering compute to OpenAI, but the deal was reportedly signed last night. It's important. They need more compute. Um, uh, this... In a, in a similar story, Facebook is, is working with Scale AI, this very talented guy, uh, who's, who's the founder of it, um, in trying to re- reboot their AI. Uh, the, the, the LLaMA stuff wasn't going as well as Mark Zuckerberg had expected and he's now sh- you know, sh- uh, shook the trees there and is redoing it, which is good. He, he's good that way to do those things. And on the, uh, uh, AI news front, OpenAI has delayed the release of its first open model in years, which is really expected this month. But it's pulling away. Uh, even I've talked to Meta people and other people and they're like, uh, "OpenAI is pulling away in terms of features, constant features." So it's still a real race going on here. Google has extended voluntary buyouts, by the way, to US employees in multiple division as cost-cutting measures to help fund for AI spending. And they're all rejiggering it. Even at Google, there's new people. Uh, they're, they're tr- they're reassessing who should be running this and what their focus should be each of these companies. Um, but they're, they're all doing a lot. And, uh, and this new AI research lab that Meta is doing is gonna be d- dedicated to pursuing super intelligence. Uh, there's just a lot going on in the sector.

Scott Galloway 38:15 Yeah. I w- th- I thought th- both announcements... The, the announcement that OpenAI was gonna work with G- Google, the Google Cloud kind of blew my mind 'cause I would have thought that, that...... Microsoft would have captured all of that business. And I don't know if it's a falling out in OpenAI wanting to diversify their, their compute supply chain, or if according to Microsoft, Microsoft is saying, "We just don't even have enough, given how amazing and how dominant OpenAI is, and we need more than one, um, more than one source of compute." That just kinda blew my mind when I heard that. The other thing that I thought was really interesting is that Google is now a newspaper company. I remember at the New York Times, we were constantly sending out letters saying, uh, voluntary buyout. Google just sent out voluntary buyout letters to a ton of people, and basically saying that these are the jobs that are most vulnerable to AI. And typically, the way it ha- it waterfalls is that, "All right. We offer you a buyout, and if you don't take this buyout of X, if you get fired in three months, you only get .5X." Now, the problem with these types of buyouts is the people, the best people leave. And the way you usually do these buyouts is you go to your top 10% and you say, "FYI, you're on the inside. We're doing a buyout, a s- buyout/layoff," trying to encourage people to, to leave, but, "You're doing really well here. You're about to get promoted. Just ignore the letter." That's the smart kinda buyout move, is you go to the people you don't wanna leave. The other thing they're doing is, uh, everyone talks about quiet quitting. The new quiet firing is back-to-work mandates. And if you'll notice, on the same day, Google announced a return-to-work mandate, because they know they'll lose 10, 20, 30% of people who got really used to walking their dog in

Scott Galloway 39:57 Prospect Park every afternoon. And so a lot of people will leave. So, but what's interesting is Google, which has got the greatest concentration of intellectual I- of IP around AI, has real insight into the world- where the economy and jobs are gonna have said, "AI is going to eliminate a lot of these jobs."

Kara Swisher 40:16 Which we've heard from a lot of companies, you know. We, we've heard from a lo- when, even when we were together, we were with, I forget who it was, Diller or someone else. Um, he was talking about it. All these companies have been talking about this, a- and are on the front end. I, I think it's actually a good thing that Google does this. I think it's a good thing that Mark, everyone was sort of writing, "Oh, Meta's AI thing got shook up." I'm like, "Good." Like, they're doing it quickly, right? They're adding and subtracting people. He's, he's, Mark is a going-for-it kinda guy. Like, right? He always, like, "Meta, Meta's not working? Gone." Like, that kinda thing. And that's, that's his superpower, I think, is his control. Uh, uh, and speaking of good managers, he is a good manager. Um, and so it's interesting that people look at it as a bad thing. I don't think any of this is a bad thing. I think it shows that people are sort of adjusting as they're extending, if that makes sense.

Scott Galloway 41:06 Yep.

Kara Swisher 41:07 Yeah. You know, it makes sense to do this. And, and, uh, the more these companies do this, the stronger they're gonna be. Um, but I do, uh, pretty much everyone at the other companies, I've been talking to a lot of these other companies, do acknowledge that, that OpenAI has been running away with it in terms of features moving faster, uh, getting things done obviously. One of the worries at Meta is that ChatGPT has become the Kleenex, right? Just like Google became the word for search, that ChatGPT is now the word for this. Um, and so can you catch up if, if, if a c- one company represents, you know, that's what people think of when they think of AI. From a marketing point of view, it's an interesting moment, I think.

Scott Galloway 41:50 Uh, I agree. I have nothing to add. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 41:52 Yeah, but I mean, it, uh, it depends on how-

Scott Galloway 41:54 When, well, when have you heard that from me? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 41:56 ... important it'll be to them today. I know, yeah. They're the Kleenex, everyone thinks is interesting.

Scott Galloway 41:59 There you go.

Kara Swisher 41:59 All right, last thing, these two interesting little stories which I thought we should talk about very briefly. ABC News has parted ways with senior national correspondent Terry Moran after he called President Trump and Stephen Miller world-class haters on X. Uh, if you remember, Moran was the one who did that testy MS-13 interview with, uh, Trump, who kept pretending a Photoshop thing was real. The network announced it would not renew M- Moran's contract after a 28-year stint, calling the expose a clear violation of policies. As a reminder, ABC paid $60 million to settle a case over comments made by anchor George Stephanopoulos last year. Moran seems okay. He's, he's already told followers he did a really, uh, delightful video that'll be on Substack shortly. He's sort of taking it well. Um, any thoughts on this? I, he shouldn't have posted that, largely because he was a, he was a beat reporter and was covering the White House. It's, he probably, even if he thought that, he shoulda kept it to himself, or he could've done it in a different way by pointing to polls or things they've done or videos or other people talking about it. Um, he, I mean, he shouldn't have done that.

Scott Galloway 43:02 Yeah, but Dan Rather and Peter Jennings did much worse, but when the market was booming, they didn't fire people for this. They just called them in and said, "Hey, boss, sucks to be a grownup. Don't do this again." So he wasn't fired by ABC. He was fired by Alphabet and Meta, who are sucking so much oxygen outta the room of cable ad-supported news that these guys are looking for, looking for reasons to fire people. And I, I think this is, uh, quite frankly, I think this is bullshit. I, I don't think this is how you treat people. The guy worked there 28 years. He was the kinda guy that in my mind sorta did the work and was good at what he did. So what you do is you call him in and you say, "You know what? You made life hard for us. Business sucks. Um, y- you need to announce that..." I, I know, I don't know, I don't know Terry. I mean, I know Terry. I don't know him well. I think he was looking for his next gig. ABC needs to cut costs. There's a way they could've done this without publicly shaming the guy and pretending to have fucking virtue. If the company was going, if the company's revenues were increasing 10 or 15% a year, they would've called him in and said, "Boss, you can't do this again." He would've said, "Fine," and they would've wink-wink, see you at the country club. But now they're all looking to cut costs, so they pretend to be virtuous and have these journalistic standards. If, if Terry had been anchoring a news program where they had more and more...... opioid-induced constipation ads that were, they were increasing the ad rates faster than inflation. They would've found out-

Kara Swisher 44:22 Sky Rizzi. It's Sky Rizzi is the ads, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 44:25 But they, they, uh, uh, uh, Mark Zuckerberg fired him, not ABC. ABC's looking for any reason it can to lay off people and then pretend they're journalists. Meanwhile, they're about to get fucked in the ass by, in a bad way, not the, not the pleasurable way, by a fascist, uh, and bend the knee like every other media company that's scared to death of this guy right now and trying to stay out of his crosshairs. So yeah, fine. Uh, uh, when people work for you for 28 years-

Kara Swisher 44:52 I agree. Uh, uh, Scott-

Scott Galloway 44:52 ... they're given do-overs.

Kara Swisher 44:53 I think he's a talented bro, but he did put himself in a... Given the history here recently, not a smart move on his part. I, I, I agree.

Scott Galloway 45:03 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 45:03 I, he should've been just, uh, taken off for a little while, talked to.

Scott Galloway 45:07 Remember when Dan Rather walked off set and CBS went to black for, what was it, six minutes?

Kara Swisher 45:12 Yes, I remember. I remember. He did.

Scott Galloway 45:13 He left the air, and the, and the, but they found excuses to keep Big Dan around.

Kara Swisher 45:16 Yes. Yeah, until he did that lawsuit that didn't work out so well. They, they, they definitely-

Scott Galloway 45:21 Th- these-

Kara Swisher 45:21 I agree. I agree. I, when it, when I saw it, I was like, "Oh, no, no, no. He's gonna have to, uh, go."

Scott Galloway 45:25 All these companies talk about how, "We're a family and a team."

Kara Swisher 45:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:28 You don't need a family or a team when you're doing well. You need them when you fuck up.

Kara Swisher 45:31 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 45:31 They should've treated him...

Kara Swisher 45:33 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:33 He was there 28 years doing the work. You show the guy a little bit more grace.

Kara Swisher 45:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:38 And if, if at the first false move that you fuck up, you get ceremoniously drawn and quartered, guess what?

Kara Swisher 45:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 45:45 All of us are gonna be unceremoniously fired at some point.

Kara Swisher 45:47 Well, except now he's not 'cause he's on his own. I'm like, "Welcome to the do whatever the fuck you want."

Scott Galloway 45:51 I hope so. I hope he does well.

Kara Swisher 45:52 Yeah, I think he will.

Scott Galloway 45:52 What's his Substack? Let's promote it. Do you know what it's called?

Kara Swisher 45:54 He, he, let's see, uh, absolutely. I'm gonna bring him on on Scott Free August. I'm gonna-

Scott Galloway 45:57 Oh, I like that.

Kara Swisher 45:58 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:58 Oh, uh, that's g- that's a great idea.

Kara Swisher 45:59 I'm gonna bring all troublemakers, bringing in Scaramucci. I'm making troublemakers for you.

Scott Galloway 46:03 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 46:03 Uh-

Scott Galloway 46:04 I really like Terry 'cause, well-

Kara Swisher 46:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:05 ... more than anything, he's very handsome.

Kara Swisher 46:07 He's very handsome.

Scott Galloway 46:07 He's very handsome.

Kara Swisher 46:08 He's a handsome man. In any case, I agree with you. Is, i- i- i- given this environment, he shouldn't have done it. He should've known.

Scott Galloway 46:14 ABC, you're so righteous. No, here's $10 million-

Kara Swisher 46:16 And that, and that, but, but, here's the thing-

Scott Galloway 46:17 ... to your fascist, to your leader. Oh, ABC-

Kara Swisher 46:18 ... here's the thing.

Scott Galloway 46:19 Good for you, Bobby Iger.

Kara Swisher 46:20 Here, here-

Scott Galloway 46:20 You're a man of principles.

Kara Swisher 46:22 Here's the thing. I've never thought of anywhere I worked as my family. Have you? I've never ha- been under that delusion. You, you have a much more romantic version of companies, don't you?

Scott Galloway 46:33 Yeah, but my companies are, are smaller and I get very strong paternal reward from my companies-

Kara Swisher 46:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:39 ... 'cause it's a bunch of young people.

Kara Swisher 46:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:41 So I get very, I'm very rapacious the first year or two years. I'm like, "You gotta... This is like the Navy Seals. Anyone can try out, but most of you aren't gonna be here in a year."

Kara Swisher 46:49 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:50 But the people, uh, I've worked with... I mean, you know my people. I've been working with my people for-

Kara Swisher 46:55 Yeah, no, you have.

Scott Galloway 46:55 ... 10, 20 years.

Kara Swisher 46:56 I had, I had 20 years, the same people working for CODE. I get it. I get that. And I never would've treated them like this. But it's, it's a really interesting thing is that a lot of these, um... I kind of would rather the Google thing, like, "Okay, it's not working. We're shifting." It sort of just feels cleaner to me in a lot of ways, um, and, and, and not be offended by it. But sure, Terry Mo- Moran is a very talented broadcaster and we wish him incredible wea- wealth and health and whatever the heck. Um, and don't feel bad, Terry. Don't worry about it. Fuck them if they can't take a joke. Anyway, you'll like it better on the outside. It's much more fun. Um, it, it-

Scott Galloway 47:32 Come on in. The water's fine.

Kara Swisher 47:33 Come on in.

Scott Galloway 47:33 Independent, independent... Well, you're an independent journalist.

Kara Swisher 47:35 (laughs) Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:35 Independent like whatever it is I do.

Kara Swisher 47:37 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:38 You're gonna enjoy it. It's fun.

Kara Swisher 47:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true, you're not a journalist, but you're something. I don't know what you are.

Scott Galloway 47:42 (laughs) I'm something.

Kara Swisher 47:43 You're a turducken. You're a turducken of some sort.

Scott Galloway 47:46 That's right.

Kara Swisher 47:46 You have some journalish-

Scott Galloway 47:47 That's right.

Kara Swisher 47:47 ... in the ism-ism.

Scott Galloway 47:48 I'm not alien from Close Encounter. (imitates extraterrestrial music)

Kara Swisher 47:52 You're immediate-ish. You're immediate-ish.

Scott Galloway 47:52 It's like-

Kara Swisher 47:52 Anyway.

Scott Galloway 47:52 ... "We don't understand him, but we think he's nice."

Kara Swisher 47:55 Yeah. Yeah. In other Disney news, this is interesting though. Disney and Universal have sued AI, uh, image generator Midjourney, which is a... People really don't like Midjourney for copyright infringement. The lawsuit alleges Midjourney, uh, helped itself to countless copyrighted works to train some of its software while news organizations, record labels, and others have filed similar suits. This marks the first suit by a major Hollywood studio. Uh, this is a good move on their part. The Midjourney... (laughs) just, like... This, you know, doing shit with Mickey is not cool for whatever, Mickey's out of, I mean, he's out of copyright, but I think his parts of him is, um, parts of Mickey is. Um, but what do you think about this?

Scott Galloway 48:31 Uh, when I was in the fraternity, one of my fraternity brothers, or one of my close friends was the head of campus events at UCLA, or involvement campus events, and he ran this ad that showed, for, um, Simba. They were doing a, uh, screening of The Lion King, and it showed Mickey Mouse riding Simba in the Daily Bruin. And, uh, we got a call from, I think it was Disney's lawyer saying, "Hi, just FYI, you'll be served a subpoena. We wanted to give you some fore notice as a courtesy, but, um, you know, you're not allowed to do this." And I'm, like, thinking I can solve every problem, and so of course we did, like, three bong loads. And then I said, "I know... Michael Ovitz was president of our fraternity." He was president of his EBT at UCLA. "We'll call him. We know, we know these powerful people. I know how to solve this," right? "I think I can fix every, any problem." Total, total arrogant douchebag American male. So, and I'm like, "But first we need to get high." (laughs) So we call the lawyer, and, and, and we say, "Look, we, we apologize. This was clearly wrong. We won't do it again, but we were fraternity brothers with Michael Ovitz," thinking that would carry real weight. "And, (laughs) and, um, we won't do it again and we apologize. We're just, you know, just a bunch of college kids." And the counsel said, the general counsel was like, "Oh, my, my, my daughter goes to UCLA. I'm... We know her, we had a nice conversation," dah, dah, dah. He's like, and he was like, uh, anyways, guys, he goes, like, back to the lawsuit. He's like, he's like, he's like, "Guys, I'll see you in court. You don't fuck with a mouse." And then he hung up. (laughs) I mean... And, and here's the bottom line. The best companies, uh, uh, usually invest a lot, have good people, and they're also rapacious about the defense of our IP. And as I go full circl- circle for my fraternity in this situation, this is a moment for content creators to absolutely rally together...... and not do one-off deals, but to get someone really mean and really angry and a lot of law firms, and charge everyone a certain amount of money, and go after all these guys and say, "Okay. If we see you're crawling our books, our content, our songs, our (laughs) , our speeches, anything, we're coming for you." And you gather it all, similar to what the artists do around their rights labels, where they say, "You can... And then we'll license it to you. We're gonna make a lot of money here. You guys are making a lot of money, that's fine. If you wanna use all of Penguin portfolio, Random's House- House's archive of every single book they have, fine, and then we're gonna figure out a deal with our authors. We're gonna do this for all artists. We're gonna..." By the way, I met one of my, my, my... I literally met my favorite artist last night. We'll come back to that, 'cause I know you're dying to talk more about May. But this is a moment. We passed that moment about 20 years ago, letting Google crawl our shit, and now it's too late. This is that moment in AI. All of these guys should be, should be binding together. Everyone from Axel Springer to News Corp to The Royal Academy of Arts, to everyone that has intellectual property should become-

Kara Swisher 51:32 That's what Ben Diller said, a year ago, a year and a half ago.

Scott Galloway 51:35 100%.

Kara Swisher 51:35 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 51:35 And I said it, I said it a year and a month ago.

Kara Swisher 51:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 51:37 Thank you very much. So-

Kara Swisher 51:38 Okay.

Scott Galloway 51:39 But they need one... They need to speak with one voice, and they need to be very aggressive in the pushback here.

Kara Swisher 51:44 Mm-hmm. You don't fuck with the mouse.

Scott Galloway 51:44 All these little efforts pushing back... Reddit filed a lawsuit last week.

Kara Swisher 51:48 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 51:48 They all need w-

Kara Swisher 51:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 51:49 They all need to come together-

Kara Swisher 51:51 They do.

Scott Galloway 51:51 ... anyway.

Kara Swisher 51:52 You're 100% right. You're 100% right. Well, we'll see if they do. Uh, so the mouse, we like this move, which you did to Terry. Eh, not great. Um-

Scott Galloway 51:59 You didn't wanna hear about my favorite artist?

Kara Swisher 52:01 Oh. Well, who's your favorite artist, very quickly?

Scott Galloway 52:02 So I went to this very, very fancy event last night. I went to the Royal Academy of Arts-

Kara Swisher 52:07 Oh.

Scott Galloway 52:07 ... like summer gala last night.

Kara Swisher 52:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:09 You know, I don't like to go out, but-

Kara Swisher 52:09 Did you wear spats?

Scott Galloway 52:11 I was forced to go out.

Kara Swisher 52:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:12 And, uh, I only own one piece of art. I don't buy wine or art, because all my friends as they got rich started buying art and wine, and I'm like, "I'm just not that guy."

Kara Swisher 52:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:21 But someone very important to me said, uh, when I was in Istanbul with them, took me to see, uh, this exhibition. Said, "I know you'll just love this guy, even though he knows a lot of art."

Kara Swisher 52:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:32 And it was, um, a guy named Grayson Perry.

Kara Swisher 52:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:35 And his art, he has... Do you know that big orange... You probably know better than I do. You know that big orange sketch, etching, I have in my-

Kara Swisher 52:41 Mm-hmm. I love it.

Scott Galloway 52:42 ... living room?

Kara Swisher 52:42 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:43 And it's called Map of a Politician.

Kara Swisher 52:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:45 And I just fell in love with it. And then-

Kara Swisher 52:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:46 ... this person, for my birthday, bought it for me. And it was the only piece of art I own.

Kara Swisher 52:50 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:50 But anyways, he was there last night and I got to meet him. And that was really exciting. He's a really lovely man. But anyways, I got to meet the artist of the one piece of art I own.

Kara Swisher 52:59 Oh, that's nice.

Scott Galloway 53:00 There you go.

Kara Swisher 53:00 That's lovely, Scott.

Scott Galloway 53:01 There you go.

Kara Swisher 53:01 For you are just evolving into such a lesbian.

Scott Galloway 53:04 Aren't I?

Kara Swisher 53:04 It's fantastic.

Scott Galloway 53:05 Aren't I? By the time I'm 90-

Kara Swisher 53:06 (laughs) .

Scott Galloway 53:06 ... I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna have manners.

Kara Swisher 53:08 (laughs) Absolutely.

Scott Galloway 53:09 I'm gonna be able to read the room on my 100th birthday.

Kara Swisher 53:11 The journey of Scott Galloway.

Scott Galloway 53:13 There you go.

Kara Swisher 53:13 Uh, all right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

Scott Galloway 53:16 He's a human boy.

Kara Swisher 53:18 Okay, Scott. Let's hear a prediction.

Scott Galloway 53:20 Hmm. I always sort of-

Kara Swisher 53:22 (clears throat)

Scott Galloway 53:22 ... had kid gloves around this, but we'll, we'll...

Kara Swisher 53:24 Hmm? What was-

Scott Galloway 53:25 The one prediction-

Kara Swisher 53:25 What was that noise?

Scott Galloway 53:26 I don't know. I have a prostate exam later today and I'm just practicing.

Kara Swisher 53:30 Huh? Okay. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 53:31 Um, elbows on the table.

Kara Swisher 53:32 (laughs) . Cough. Cough.

Scott Galloway 53:33 Elbows on the table.

Kara Swisher 53:34 That's all I know.

Scott Galloway 53:35 Uh.

Kara Swisher 53:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:37 Run your, run your hands through my hair.

Kara Swisher 53:39 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:39 Um.

Kara Swisher 53:40 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:40 Uh, uh, I think Gavin Newsom is now coming out of this the defacto leader of the Democratic Party-

Kara Swisher 53:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:46 ... and that was a void the size of the fricking Grand Canyon.

Kara Swisher 53:49 You, as you've noted. Now, should he declare for his presidency? I was thinking this. I almost texted him and said, "You should declare for presidency-

Scott Galloway 53:54 He has.

Kara Swisher 53:55 ... right now."

Scott Galloway 53:55 He's, he has. He has, without-

Kara Swisher 53:57 But should he actually, and then start making pronouncements?

Scott Galloway 53:58 No. Probably not yet, 'cause it would warrant-

Kara Swisher 54:01 Okay.

Scott Galloway 54:01 But he's already, he is... The people who should declare presidency are the people that nobody knows, 'cause they'll get a ton of... He, he is already the defacto-

Kara Swisher 54:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:09 ... candidate-

Kara Swisher 54:10 I would agree.

Scott Galloway 54:10 ... by virtue of what's happened this week.

Kara Swisher 54:11 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:12 And he should start. And he's also... And I said this a few months ago. Him bringing Charlie Kirk on and Newt Gingrich on his podcast?

Kara Swisher 54:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:18 As much as the Taliban or the left hates that, that was the right move.

Kara Swisher 54:22 It was just a bad interview, Scott. Uh, I don't have a problem with him having it on. It just, he didn't do a good job. But go ahead. He-

Scott Galloway 54:28 I think he's the defacto leader of the Democratic Party right now, coming out of this, too.

Kara Swisher 54:32 Mm-hmm. Can I ask, can I add something?

Scott Galloway 54:33 Sure.

Kara Swisher 54:33 Who do you think, if he was running... I was thinking if he ran, his vice president should either be Pete Buttigieg or someone I saw the other night, Gina R- Ramundo. Anyway, those are my ideas for a vice president.

Scott Galloway 54:44 I think she's fantastic.

Kara Swisher 54:45 She is amazing. She is-

Scott Galloway 54:46 And, and-

Kara Swisher 54:47 ... she's, she's as sharp as a fricking tack.

Scott Galloway 54:48 ... if you want someone, if you want someone that's good for the economy and just does the work, she's-

Kara Swisher 54:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:52 ... she's that person.

Kara Swisher 54:53 It's a question. She may run for president, by the way, so.

Scott Galloway 54:57 A woman will not be the Democratic nominee, and nor-

Kara Swisher 54:59 I know, I understand.

Scott Galloway 54:59 ... should she be. If we have another woman lose for the third time carrying, not gonna have a female president for 50 years.

Kara Swisher 55:03 I thought she would... As much as I think she is utterly capable of being president, I thought she should be the vice president for Gavin Newsom. That would be a really interesting pairing.

Scott Galloway 55:10 So, uh, let me be looksist and sexist in one fell swoop.

Kara Swisher 55:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:13 I can guarantee you not one person... The, the Democratic nominee will not be under 5'10". No president in the last 100 years has been under 5'10".

Kara Swisher 55:19 Well, he's a big-

Scott Galloway 55:20 We are-

Kara Swisher 55:20 ... he's big.

Scott Galloway 55:21 We are a looksist nation.

Kara Swisher 55:22 Ken is a handsome man. He's a handsome-

Scott Galloway 55:23 Well, that's, that's my point.

Kara Swisher 55:24 So is Wes Moore.

Scott Galloway 55:24 I hate to say it.

Kara Swisher 55:25 What a handsome man.

Scott Galloway 55:25 The first... We will have a female president.

Kara Swisher 55:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:28 She will be a Republican, and the key attribute you will, she will bring is a reputation that if your family runs a stop sign, she'll drone your ass.

Kara Swisher 55:35 Yes (laughs) .

Scott Galloway 55:35 She will be... The first female president of the US will have to be someone so fucking scary-

Kara Swisher 55:40 She'll drone your ass.

Scott Galloway 55:41 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 55:41 Well, that would've been Liz Cheney, right? That would've been in the old days.

Scott Galloway 55:45 Liz is probably the closest we coulda had to an electable female president.

Kara Swisher 55:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:49 And someone else will come along.

Kara Swisher 55:50 She would drone your ass.

Scott Galloway 55:51 Anyways. It's not gonna be-

Kara Swisher 55:52 For sure.

Scott Galloway 55:52 ... a Democrat. And the Democrats are not gonna take their chances on a gay man.

Kara Swisher 55:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:56 They're not gonna take their chances on a woman.

Kara Swisher 55:58 I'm talking about vice president.

Scott Galloway 55:58 They're not gonna take their chances on someone who's less than 5'10". I'm sorry. That's the bottom line.

Kara Swisher 56:03 All right.

Scott Galloway 56:03 Anyways. As VP, that's a really good one.

Kara Swisher 56:07 Just play that game for a second.

Scott Galloway 56:09 I'd probably match you it up and bring in like a former military person.

Kara Swisher 56:13 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 56:14 I don't know. Mark Kelly. Uh, there's a lot of... There's so many good VP

Scott Galloway 56:18 candidates.

Kara Swisher 56:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 56:19 I think... Yeah. Um, I don't know. They'll figure out what states they need help in. Who do you like?

Kara Swisher 56:26 Uh, I think, I think there's a lot of interesting people, but I, I, I think there... I think there's a lot of interesting people. I don't know yet, because I think Wes Moore is always talked about and most feared by the right. That's for sure. Um, I think, um, uh-

Scott Galloway 56:39 He's very good.

Kara Swisher 56:40 I still like... Uh, you know, I... In my life, a Michael Bennet would be such a good president. Um, I, I always think of who'd be a good president. Of course, that doesn't matter anymore. Celebrity matters. Um, probably, I think... I, I... When I ran into Gina Raimondo the other day, I was like, "Oh, she's so fucking oppressive."

Scott Galloway 56:57 She's so good. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 56:57 "She's so fucking oppressive."

Scott Galloway 56:58 So good.

Kara Swisher 56:58 Um, anyway, um-

Scott Galloway 57:00 You know who we just had on, uh, on the Raging Moderates pod yesterday, was Richie Torres.

Kara Swisher 57:06 Uh, oh, I don't... I'm not a fan.

Scott Galloway 57:08 What?

Kara Swisher 57:09 Not a fan. Sorry.

Scott Galloway 57:10 Oh, my God.

Kara Swisher 57:11 I think he's so performative.

Scott Galloway 57:11 I love that guy.

Kara Swisher 57:12 I think he's so performative.

Scott Galloway 57:14 Oh.

Kara Swisher 57:14 I, I still keep thinking... I agree with you about the woman thing.

Scott Galloway 57:17 Raised by a single mother, struggled with depression.

Kara Swisher 57:19 I understand. Not imp-... I don't like him.

Scott Galloway 57:21 No, he's really good.

Kara Swisher 57:21 Oh, by the way, let me say, um, uh, by the way, our producers are saying there have been presidents under 5'10", but not this-

Scott Galloway 57:26 In the last 100 years?

Kara Swisher 57:28 N- I don't know who it is. Let's see.

Scott Galloway 57:29 Who?

Kara Swisher 57:29 They're gonna tell us.

Scott Galloway 57:30 Who?

Kara Swisher 57:30 Harry Truman, Jimmy Carter.

Scott Galloway 57:33 Jimmy was 5'10"?

Kara Swisher 57:34 Mm, under, I guess. Yeah. Must have been.

Scott Galloway 57:36 Jimmy Carter was 5'10".

Kara Swisher 57:38 Oh. Oh, it says 9.5. All right.

Scott Galloway 57:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:41 He's that tall. He wasn't tall.

Scott Galloway 57:43 Whatever. All that matters is I'm eight inches. Um-

Kara Swisher 57:45 Oh, my God.

Scott Galloway 57:46 Okay.

Kara Swisher 57:48 (laughs) You're so... Ugh, God.

Scott Galloway 57:49 I won't tell you my nickname in, for fraternity.

Kara Swisher 57:51 Can I ask you-

Scott Galloway 57:51 I won't tell you my nickname in the fraternity.

Kara Swisher 57:53 In advance-

Scott Galloway 57:53 Don't force me to tell you my nickname in the fraternity, Kara.

Kara Swisher 57:56 I'm not. I know it is, it's, it's Tripod. Um, so, uh, you've already told me.

Scott Galloway 57:59 God, we're like an old couple.

Kara Swisher 58:01 I know, we are. Um, give me the Republican candidate, then. Give me, just-

Scott Galloway 58:05 No, it's gonna be J- I think it's gonna be J.D. Vance.

Kara Swisher 58:07 I do not think that.

Scott Galloway 58:08 No? Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 58:09 Mm-mm.

Scott Galloway 58:09 Who do you think it's gonna be?

Kara Swisher 58:10 It's either gonna be Marco Rubio or, like, a Glenn Youngkin. That's my feeling.

Scott Galloway 58:14 Uh, Youngkin's the guy who would win.

Kara Swisher 58:16 Well, just sayin'.

Scott Galloway 58:16 Um, I think that Trump though-

Kara Swisher 58:18 Although, he doesn't have the most spectacular Virginia situation.

Scott Galloway 58:19 But Trump's gonna have so much power that he'll basically... Unless he has a huge erosion in his base, he'll be able to pick-

Kara Swisher 58:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 58:26 ... the person. I think it'll be... I don't think it'll be... I think s-... Oh, shit, I don't know.

Kara Swisher 58:30 I think he likes Vance. I don't think he likes Vance.

Scott Galloway 58:32 You don't think he likes Vance?

Kara Swisher 58:33 Vance is unlikeable. He really is. He's just... He, he repels voters. They need a interesting-looking person. It's gotta be, like, a Youngkin or a... And Trump wants to keep it there, so it's not gonna be his son who... Forget that. I mean, he knows he's a loser. Um, probably... It's gotta be, it's gotta be Rubio or something like that. Something like that.

Scott Galloway 58:57 I think Rubio's too short.

Kara Swisher 58:59 All right, okay. Anyway, he's also somewhat charmless too, also. That's true. I... When he said Lil' Marco, I thought, "Mm-hmm, that is correct." Anyway, uh, we'll see. Let's-

Scott Galloway 59:07 Oh, wait. So, my pred- my actual prediction-

Kara Swisher 59:09 Okay.

Scott Galloway 59:10 ... is that, um, the worst, I think probably the worst acquisition of the last decade in terms of value destruction or overpaying happened last week.

Kara Swisher 59:17 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 59:17 Uh, OpenAI's acquisition of the design firm, I think it's called AIO. Um, I think John Aon's fantastic. Uh, uh, just to be clear, company with no products gets acquired for $6.5 billion for a guy who is an, uh, a... Is a genius designer. I, I give him... He deserve all, all is due. Uh, "Sorry, boss, that's not worth $6.5 billion. This thing will be written-"

Kara Swisher 59:41 Yeah, maybe he's cosplaying Steve Jobs

Narrator 59:42 ... Sam Altman.

Scott Galloway 59:42 This thing, this will make... This thing will be written down by... Uh, let me be clear. Iconic, legendary designer-

Narrator 59:50 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 59:50 ... maybe even worth, like, $100 million, which means a $6.4 billion write-down. And in addition, OpenAI is gonna find that (laughs) designing products-

Narrator 1:00:00 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:00:00 ... they'd be much better off... Let me save them some time, partner with hardware firms.

Narrator 1:00:04 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:00:05 You thinking that you're gonna bring in this Guy Ritchie-like genius who dresses incredibly well and rightfully is considered one of the great designers of all time, is gonna figure out a way for you to get into products? No.

Kara Swisher 1:00:16 He was the last speaker at Code along with Lorraine Powell Jobs and Tim Cook.

Scott Galloway 1:00:21 Yeah. Uh, uh, by the way, amazing. I'm not-

Kara Swisher 1:00:23 Amazing. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:24 I'm not-

Kara Swisher 1:00:24 I'm not saying.

Scott Galloway 1:00:24 I'm not this-

Kara Swisher 1:00:25 Mm, a lot of money.

Scott Galloway 1:00:25 The whole thing when the two of them did this promo video-

Kara Swisher 1:00:28 All right.

Scott Galloway 1:00:28 ... on the, uh, acquisition-

Kara Swisher 1:00:30 I know. I thought they were getting married.

Scott Galloway 1:00:30 ... and it was so much like, "I'm just a billionaire standing in front of a billionaire wanting to be trillionaires."

Kara Swisher 1:00:36 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:00:36 I mean, (laughs) it was just so, like-

Kara Swisher 1:00:36 It was, it was strange. It was strange.

Scott Galloway 1:00:38 Oh, God.

Kara Swisher 1:00:39 Whatever, let's give it to them.

Scott Galloway 1:00:40 I'm like-

Kara Swisher 1:00:40 They've done a nice job over there.

Scott Galloway 1:00:41 Ugh.

Kara Swisher 1:00:41 All right. We wa- (laughs) We wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. Uh, elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week on Prof G Markets, Scott spoke with Katherine Anne Edwards, PhD economist and columnist for Bloomberg News. She weighs in on the latest jobs data and unpacks how the economy has reached, reacted to Trump's policies. Let's listen to a clip.

Narrator 1:01:10 What we are seeing is the effect of uncertainty. And uncertainty is all about idling. "I'm not gonna move much in either direction until I know which way the wind is blowing. So I'm not gonna hire that many people, I'm not gonna fire that many people. I'm not gonna make massive investments, but I'm not gonna pull back from the ones that I have. I'm just waiting in place to understand what the world's gonna look like." And that has been the economy really since September.

Kara Swisher 1:01:36 Really very, absolutely true. No one knows what to do because he's crazy. Uh, okay. That's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott will be back next week from France, where we, I will be charging things to Scott's room-

Scott Galloway 1:01:52 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:01:53 Uh, very soon. Very, very soon. Overpriced whatever it happens to be, but I will be ch-... That will be the charge there, Scott. Uh, we'll be back next week from France, in fact. Uh, Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 1:02:04 Today's show was produced by Laura Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Untertied engined this episode. Thanks also to Drew Beroes, Miss Averio and Dan Chalon. Vishak Herat is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot, the New York Magazine, Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. This is not leadership, it's fascist foreplay, and history will not be kind.