Don Lemon Announces He's Launching New Show on X

1. 0:00 – 0:44

   Don Lemon’s X-exclusive show: what’s being announced—and why it’s controversial

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Don Lemon is back and he says he's bigger, bolder, freer. He was pretty free. Lemon announced this week that he's starting a new show that will stream exclusively first on X. So it's a podcast that's gonna be first on X-

   2. SGScott Galloway0:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KSKara Swisher0:14

      ... I guess, which, uh, you know, they've been, uh, Linda's been going around. I knew a lot about this because I talked to Don about it, uh, quite a bit. I had other suggestions for him. I suggested he do a deal with Ben Shapiro or m- do the Megyn Kelly route. I didn't think this was a good idea, so that, that's just full disclosure. Um, and I told him so, and I said, "You know, get the money up front. Um, uh, I just don't think it's gonna go well for you on this platform." Uh, but, uh, but he d- he did it. Uh, he, uh, he's other things he's doing, you know,

2. 0:44 – 1:19

   X as a ‘free speech’ hub and the company’s playbook of splashy talent deals

   1. KSKara Swisher0:44

      he's... But he also called X "the biggest space for free speech in the world." Um, I think, uh, it was also Tulsi Gabbard and sports commentator Jim Rome are doing video partnerships. Obviously, Tucker Carlson's been there, but then moved to his own subscription-based platform. Um, Scott, what do you think? I, I said he shouldn't do it. I thought there were lots of other choices. And again, if I'm recommending Ben Shapiro, who I, who I think is abhorrent in many ways, but he's quite a good media executive, that's the kind of outfit I thought he should have affiliate, you know, to, to create a great media property.

3. 1:19 – 3:08

   Scott’s take: Lemon is talented, but X is a damaging ‘umbrella brand’

   1. SGScott Galloway1:19

      I, I think you're right. Um, so first off, I think, I think Don is a, is a real talent, and I think he's unafraid, he connects with people, he's really handsome, which I think is incredibly important in media. Um, not as important in podcasting. But if I were him, I would've just started with a podcast with a Vox or, you know, Daily, you know, whatever it's called, Daily Wire, and developed a following there because X sort of creates a halo that, okay, congratulations, you're now, you know, on the same platform as Alex Jones, and the guy who runs it is just sort of reckless and strange. And I don't... This reminds me a little bit of when Yahoo did a big deal with Katie Couric. It just, it's not-

   2. KSKara Swisher2:05

      Yes, I broke all those stories.

   3. SGScott Galloway2:07

      ... it's not-

   4. KSKara Swisher2:07

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SGScott Galloway2:07

      I, I don't... This is not what I would have done if I was Don. Uh, if I were Don, I would have figured out an outlet where I could still have a 30 or 60-minute show because, uh, he has a face for television (laughs) and, uh, I do think him in TV is still, uh, he would still do well even if he had to go to a "second tier" network, and he should have done a great podcast. To kind of announce this, it's, it's, it's not just Don Lemon and the, what the topic is he gonna talk about, it's Don Lemon and X, and X, in my view, is a bad umbrella brand.

   6. KSKara Swisher2:41

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGScott Galloway2:41

      Uh, but on the whole, he's a big talent, and the thing that I do like about this, uh, is that he is doing something. The key for all of these folks, and I, I, I've spoken to a lot of them recently as they're all trying to figure out their third-

   8. KSKara Swisher2:55

      (laughs)

   9. SGScott Galloway2:55

      ... or fourth act, is don't-

   10. KSKara Swisher2:57

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SGScott Galloway2:57

       ... let perfect be the enemy of good, and that is just get onto the next thing and iterate. And-

   12. KSKara Swisher3:02

       Yeah.

   13. SGScott Galloway3:03

       ... s- most of them don't. Most of them-

   14. KSKara Swisher3:05

       Well, they're used to a different world because they're used to being-

4. 3:08 – 3:30

   The Yahoo/Katie Couric cautionary tale: big checks, buried distribution

   1. SGScott Galloway3:08

      That's right.

   2. KSKara Swisher3:08

      ... coddled in the whole network system, right? You know, um, uh, in Katie's case, I, I actually did break that story. That's how I got to know Katie-

   3. SGScott Galloway3:17

      Mm-hmm.

   4. KSKara Swisher3:17

      ... from that story. Um, she got a ton of money up front-

   5. SGScott Galloway3:20

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KSKara Swisher3:20

      ... but then they buried her inside of Yahoo, never was on the front page of a whole bunch of things-

   7. SGScott Galloway3:23

      Well, she only got 1% of what-

   8. KSKara Swisher3:25

      ... that happened. She actually did some very good-

   9. SGScott Galloway3:25

      ... Marissa Mayer paid for Tumblr, who was obviously the, uh, arguably one of the worst CEOs in the history of tech.

   10. KSKara Swisher3:30

       Tru-

   11. SGScott Galloway3:30

       But...

5. 3:30 – 4:45

   Did X pay Lemon upfront? Money as the deciding factor—and the hidden risks

   1. KSKara Swisher3:30

      True. I, I, I think they paid Don a pile of money. I know they did, pile of money, up front-

   2. SGScott Galloway3:35

      X paid Don Lemon?

   3. KSKara Swisher3:38

      ... pile.

   4. SGScott Galloway3:38

      Really?

   5. KSKara Swisher3:38

      Yes. Mm-hmm.

   6. SGScott Galloway3:40

      Oh, I didn't know. Well, if-

   7. KSKara Swisher3:41

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SGScott Galloway3:41

      ... if that's the case, then-

   9. KSKara Swisher3:42

      Yep.

   10. SGScott Galloway3:42

       ... I'm, I'm, uh, you know, I think economic security is important. If he's, if he's...

   11. KSKara Swisher3:48

       He has a lot of money. He still, you know, he, he got... When they fired him, I got- I think they had to pay out his contract, so, um, I don't know. He could've had more money. I think m- uh, I again can't stand what Megyn Kelly's doing, but-

   12. SGScott Galloway4:00

       Oh, she's very good at what she does.

   13. KSKara Swisher4:01

       ... I get it. I get it. Yes, that's what I mean.

   14. SGScott Galloway4:03

       She's very good at what she does.

   15. KSKara Swisher4:03

       I'm like, "Uh-huh. I see what she's doing," and I talked to her before she did that, um, and I recommended... The other thing I recommended to Don is, "If you wanna stay on television, go to a big market like Los Angeles and be the anchor for the top TV station and start to do interesting things, like-"

   16. SGScott Galloway4:17

       Those guys will never go local after being national. They just couldn't do it.

   17. KSKara Swisher4:20

       I get it, but, like, you could do some interesting things. That, that's a great kind of place because they're... Anyway, um, y- you know, whatever. I just, I don't think this was a good idea. But, you know, I guess if you got a pile of money-

   18. SGScott Galloway4:32

       Well, I d- I-

   19. KSKara Swisher4:32

       ... it'd free Don.

   20. SGScott Galloway4:32

       X has the money to pay these kind of things? I would think X would be...

   21. KSKara Swisher4:36

       Yeah, I said get it up front, Don, like a, get, like, like, Bitcoin or something (laughs) -

   22. SGScott Galloway4:40

       Yeah, just be-

   23. KSKara Swisher4:41

       ... up front term.

   24. SGScott Galloway4:41

       ... just be mindful if you get fired-

   25. KSKara Swisher4:42

       But, um-

   26. SGScott Galloway4:42

       ... you might not get the severance or healthcare you were contractually obligated to.

6. 4:45 – 5:18

   Unpaid ex-Twitter employees and looming lawsuits: trust and platform stability

   1. KSKara Swisher4:45

      Well, speaking of which, I was, uh, in San Francisco. Uh, there, there are gonna be some lawsuits soon because he hasn't paid any of them what he owes them, in, from top to bottom-

   2. SGScott Galloway4:57

      It goes back-

   3. KSKara Swisher4:57

      ... the ex-Twitter employees. And he's using specious, uh, like, ideas of why... I forget what the one was. There was a couple different people telling me different things they're accusing him of so they don't have to pay them, so.

   4. SGScott Galloway5:09

      But it goes back to the same thing with this bullshit around, "Well, I'm a billionaire, so I can put a chill on all of media."

7. 5:18 – 6:09

   Linda Yaccarino’s CES pitch and X’s ‘pivot to video’—why Kara thinks it won’t work

   1. KSKara Swisher5:18

      It's so abusive. It really is. Um, but the video strategy that they have now, now ex-CEO, uh, Linda Yaccarino was at CES this week getting asked why advertisers should put ads on X given the hateful content risk. She said that hate speech is an issue on every platform. Can they pivot to video? No. I, I said, you know, YouTube, Reddit, Instagram, uh, uh, uh, would li- and YouTube would like to have a word, Twitter. Like I, they're so behind, they've, they blew all their chances early. They have com- TikTok, I'm sorry, I left out TikTok. Their competitors are superb and good at what they do. They have no cha- uh, I don't see how they have any chance. This is another, you know, bullshit thing that they-... they aren't gonna ... Like, a lot of the Twitter Blue stuff is now falling off of Twitter Blue, all their promises. So, I don't see them being able to pivot to, to this at all.

8. 6:09 – 7:10

   Is video still the right strategy—just too late for X?

   1. SGScott Galloway6:09

      Well, sort of back in the day, one of my investors was Tim Armstrong. Like, a really talented-

   2. KSKara Swisher6:14

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SGScott Galloway6:14

      ... nice man. And I don't know if it was-

   4. KSKara Swisher6:16

      Please.

   5. SGScott Galloway6:17

      ... him or his head of strategy said, "What would you do if you were Yahoo?" This is probably a decade ago. And I'd be like, "I ... Oh, yeah. That's right. He- he bought it. "I mean, I would be the world's largest TV network and that your distribution platform is, is the internet."

   6. KSKara Swisher6:29

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGScott Galloway6:29

      And a lot of word is out that video is big. (laughs) And to your point-

   8. KSKara Swisher6:35

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   9. SGScott Galloway6:36

      ... YouTube does a really good job. TikTok does a really good job.

   10. KSKara Swisher6:40

       Me too. TikTok.

   11. SGScott Galloway6:41

       So, I'm not saying-

   12. KSKara Swisher6:41

       Reddit.

   13. SGScott Galloway6:42

       Yeah. It might be the right strategy.

   14. KSKara Swisher6:44

       Instagram.

   15. SGScott Galloway6:44

       But it feels a little bit late. It feels like they don't have-

   16. KSKara Swisher6:47

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SGScott Galloway6:47

       ... the capital, the engineering-

   18. KSKara Swisher6:49

       They-

   19. SGScott Galloway6:50

       ... talent.

   20. KSKara Swisher6:50

       I would say eight years and they were there already.

   21. SGScott Galloway6:52

       So-

   22. KSKara Swisher6:53

       Eight years.

   23. SGScott Galloway6:53

       ... I don't ... Yeah.

   24. KSKara Swisher6:54

       To me.

   25. SGScott Galloway6:54

       It, it makes sense. But the notion that, uh, you know, I, I, I just don't ... If I were, uh, we'll see. I, I ... Look, Twitter, X has to do something, right? They have to innovate. They have to do something.

   26. KSKara Swisher7:07

       No.

   27. SGScott Galloway7:07

       They have to experiment.

   28. KSKara Swisher7:08

       This is not gonna work.

   29. SGScott Galloway7:09

       It does feel late.

9. 7:10 – 8:08

   Deals vs. native creators: why ‘big names’ aren’t the modern programming answer

   1. KSKara Swisher7:10

      This is, this is a, this is a media strategy by someone who doesn't know media, which would be Musk and Linda Yaccarino, who came from NBC. So, this is her move. And she was not in programming or editorial or any ... She knows how to, you know, putting names like Tulsi Gabbard, uh, and Don Lemon out, she thinks it's gonna ... This is, she goes for the deal, the splashy deal at CES. That's not how it works anymore. It's people you don't know. It's interesting, like MrBeast or it's, ugh, it's just not this.

   2. SGScott Galloway7:41

      Well, it's na-

   3. KSKara Swisher7:41

      It's just not this.

   4. SGScott Galloway7:42

      People are native. I will say, I saw T- I watched Tulsi-

   5. KSKara Swisher7:45

      Yeah, that's true.

   6. SGScott Galloway7:46

      ... on, on Fox.

   7. KSKara Swisher7:48

      She has ... Yeah, she has some talent.

   8. SGScott Galloway7:49

      And I think she's, I think she's talented.

   9. KSKara Swisher7:50

      She's good.

   10. SGScott Galloway7:50

       I was shocked at how good she was on air.

   11. KSKara Swisher7:52

       She is good.

   12. SGScott Galloway7:53

       I think she's good. The ... Uh-

   13. KSKara Swisher7:55

       Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway7:56

       If ... I, I-

   15. KSKara Swisher7:56

       I would agree.

   16. SGScott Galloway7:57

       ... would've done a deal. Maybe they just got bought, you know, they just threw so much money at the-

   17. KSKara Swisher8:01

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SGScott Galloway8:01

       Which if ... And if that's the case, I-

   19. KSKara Swisher8:03

       I think they did.

   20. SGScott Galloway8:04

       D Lemon, I take it back. Good for you.

10. 8:08 – 8:14

    Owning your destiny: Kara’s Megyn Kelly comparison and creator-era economics

    1. KSKara Swisher8:08

       Ugh. No, it's not good. It's not good for him. He could've made just ... Megyn Kelly is making bank and she controls-

    2. SGScott Galloway8:13

       Mm-hmm.

    3. KSKara Swisher8:13

       ... her destiny.

    4. SGScott Galloway8:13

       Good point. Fair point.

11. 8:14 – 9:19

    Brief personal banter: independence, lifestyle, and the hosts’ rapport

    1. KSKara Swisher8:14

       I'm sorry. Uh, again (laughs) I can't. You know, you don't need it. It's, it's ... I was talking to someone about this and they ... About my own career. And they're like, "Why don't you come with us full-time?" I said, "You can't afford me. You don't understand."

    2. SGScott Galloway8:26

       Mm-hmm.

    3. KSKara Swisher8:26

       What ... You know what I mean? Like, I can do better by myself. Like, you don't ... Things have changed and I'm not even very big.

    4. SGScott Galloway8:32

       I mean, you-

    5. KSKara Swisher8:33

       Um-

    6. SGScott Galloway8:33

       ... you stay at the nicest hotels-

    7. KSKara Swisher8:35

       So-

    8. SGScott Galloway8:35

       ... in Manhatt ... Oh, wait. Nevermind. Nevermind.

    9. KSKara Swisher8:38

       (laughs) Jeez.

    10. SGScott Galloway8:39

        You go through my closets-

    11. KSKara Swisher8:40

        Um, so-

    12. SGScott Galloway8:40

        ... and comment on my food.

    13. KSKara Swisher8:42

        I love it. Do you know what? I actually, I actually love your apartment.

    14. SGScott Galloway8:44

        It's nice, isn't it?

    15. KSKara Swisher8:45

        I love it.

    16. SGScott Galloway8:45

        It actually ... And I'm, I'm kidding.

    17. KSKara Swisher8:47

        I love it.

    18. SGScott Galloway8:47

        It makes me happy to know you're there. I like it.

    19. KSKara Swisher8:49

        I, you know, I, I love people's homes. I stayed with Brooke Hamerlin in Los Angeles.

    20. SGScott Galloway8:54

        Mm-hmm.

    21. KSKara Swisher8:54

        She has a beautiful home. I don't like hotels. I'm not a hotel liker.

    22. SGScott Galloway8:57

        Ugh, I love hotels.

    23. KSKara Swisher8:58

        Um, but I love your-

    24. SGScott Galloway8:58

        Room service-

    25. KSKara Swisher8:59

        ... I act-

    26. SGScott Galloway8:59

        ... calls screaming at people, "Where are my eggs?"

    27. KSKara Swisher9:01

        I, I don't ... No. I don't like it. (laughs) I don't like it. I like your apartment quite a bit. I, and I don't know why. I have an as- I have an affection for it. I really do. And it's not 'cause it's ... It's not that fancy. It's just really lovely. It's a lovely feeling-

    28. SGScott Galloway9:13

        Thanks for that.

    29. KSKara Swisher9:14

        ... with your apartment. Anyway, it's got a nice vibe. It's got a good vibe.

    30. SGScott Galloway9:16

        It's full of love and Cialis. It's full of love.

12. 9:19 – 10:51

    CNN’s next era under Mark Thompson: ‘conventional TV can’t define us’

    1. KSKara Swisher9:19

       The last thing is this world of online video changing then, where do you think it's going? I, I did interview Mark Thompson in an offsite for Warner Bros. I don't know if it was off the record or not. I was never told it was. But it was a really interesting conversation. Um, but he said, uh, among other things that conventional TV can no longer define us. Although, I, he wasn't abandoning TV. Uh, that wasn't what he meant.

    2. SGScott Galloway9:40

       What does that mean-

    3. KSKara Swisher9:41

       Um-

    4. SGScott Galloway9:41

       ... conventional TV?

    5. KSKara Swisher9:41

       That's when he started his own. Well, I think he's like ... I think, I was trying to get more out of him about it actually. Because it was, you know, I think he has to ... They're trying to figure out where, how to, how to move their ... Where and how to move their stuff and control it. A little like, you know, he said it wasn't ... One thing, I'm gonna just say what he said. He, he said it wasn't a, a shift and lift from, or lift and shift from what he did at the New York Times, which was move it over to digital while keeping the, uh, print thing going.

    6. SGScott Galloway10:13

       Mm-hmm.

    7. KSKara Swisher10:13

       'Cause he thought video would o- uh, like TV distribution linear would be around for several decades. And I would agree with him. Um, and it's already there, so why not take advantage of it? Um, but that you have to sort of move everything, uh, think of it as, as a digital product over, over time. And he, he said, "We have to own it and not be subject to other people's platforms." It was interesting. It was re- he's a smart man.

    8. SGScott Galloway10:37

       Well, what is the, what strategy-

    9. KSKara Swisher10:39

       Um-

    10. SGScott Galloway10:40

        ... if, if you were to define, maybe you didn't get this information, how Mark Thompson-

    11. KSKara Swisher10:44

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SGScott Galloway10:44

        ... is going ... What is the strategy or the shift in programming or distribution that we'll see under Mark Thompson that we weren't gonna see under Chris Licht?

13. 10:51 – 14:38

    The likely answer: subscriptions (done right), bundling with Max, and AI-personalized news

    1. KSKara Swisher10:51

       A subscription.

    2. SGScott Galloway10:52

       Subscription.

    3. KSKara Swisher10:53

       A subscription service. I, that's my ... Uh, she didn't say it.

    4. SGScott Galloway10:57

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KSKara Swisher10:57

       But there's no other way. Like, what they did at the New York Times.

    6. SGScott Galloway10:59

       You mean like CNN+?

    7. KSKara Swisher10:59

       Some of it's free.

    8. SGScott Galloway11:01

       (laughs) What? Okay.

    9. KSKara Swisher11:02

       Yes, exactly. I, that's what I said. I said the problem with CNN+ was directionally it was correct, but there was no CNN. It was like hamburger plus-

    10. SGScott Galloway11:09

        Mm-hmm.

    11. KSKara Swisher11:09

        ... without hamburger. Right? Like, I don't get it. Why don't you be ... But I think some of the stuff, I think he's right. Some news does lend itself to television.

    12. SGScott Galloway11:17

        I agree.

    13. KSKara Swisher11:17

        Fast news, fast moving. Um, but I think the dependence on the platforms like Twitter or f- YouTube or whatever, there's not ... The monetization's not there. And I think the Times was doing that too. Just the way everybody gave all their content to Netflix-

    14. SGScott Galloway11:35

        Mm-hmm.

    15. KSKara Swisher11:35

        ... and regretted it, I think, in a lot of ways, um, and didn't own it themselves and take the cost of doing it. I think that's his inclination. I think he's correct, that it has to be a product that people wanna buy, um, a, a news product that people wanna buy from CNN. And some of it is free, some of it's not. Um, I mean, he has to ... He's, you know, they could ... Look at Netflix is now very successfully doing advertising. A- Amazon is about to make its ad tier for default for its millions of Prime Video subscribers. So, you know, there's a lot of ad stuff in a different and interesting way. So, they have, they have some, they have some interesting opportunities and he's very canny. So, I don't know. What would you do if you were running CNN?Great brand globally. Great brand globally. Tons of reporters.

    16. SGScott Galloway12:21

        I would try and elegantly integrate it into, um, kinda the, the Max offering, and always have a CNN bug-

    17. KSKara Swisher12:30

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SGScott Galloway12:30

        ... where you could click it and they did, you know, they had six-

    19. KSKara Swisher12:32

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SGScott Galloway12:33

        ... 10, 20-minute loops, kind of becomes the ingredient news brand for the subscription service Max. I don't think it's a standalone subscription service.

    21. KSKara Swisher12:41

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SGScott Galloway12:41

        I think it's, it's the ingredient-

    23. KSKara Swisher12:43

        Yeah.

    24. SGScott Galloway12:43

        It's the NutraSuite of Max around news. And because when you think about it-

    25. KSKara Swisher12:47

        Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    26. SGScott Galloway12:48

        ... the biggest players, whether it's, whether it's Disney+ or Netflix, what they lack is news. So it is-

    27. KSKara Swisher12:55

        Yeah.

    28. SGScott Galloway12:55

        ... it's the aspartame or I don't know-

    29. KSKara Swisher12:57

        I agree.

    30. SGScott Galloway12:57

        ... what you wanna call it. The, the intel inside of Max is what I would, I would try and build.

Episode duration: 14:38