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How Trump’s Fight With the Pope Backfired | Pivot

Kara and Scott break down Trump lashing out against the Pope and right-wing media figures, and his next moves for Iran after peace talks fail. Then, Viktor Orban loses in Hungary, and his concession is a surprising win for democracy. Plus, Eric Swalwell drops out of the California governor’s race and Congress, Scott Bessent warns banks about Anthropic’s Mythos model, and Hollywood heavyweights push back on the Paramount–Warner Bros. deal. #pivot #podcast #karaswisher #scottgalloway #pope #trump #iran #viktororban #hungary #ericswalwell #scottbessent #anthropic #mythos #paramount #warnerbros 00:00 Intro 00:53 Trump vs. Pope 6:18 Strait of Hormuz Blockade 14:58 Orban Loses in Hungary 21:08 Rep. Eric Swalwell Suspends Campaign 30:50 Bessent’s Anthropic Warning 33:37 Sam Altman Targeted 40:58 News Roundup 46:31 Wins and Fails Producers: Lara Naaman Zoë Marcus Taylor Griffin Kate Gallagher Video Producer: Rich Shibley Vox Media's Executive Producer of Podcasts: Nishat Kurwa Subscribe to Pivot on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1073226719 Subscribe to Pivot on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4MU3RFGELZxPT9XHVwTNPR Follow us on Instagram and Threads at: https://www.instagram.com/pivotpodcastofficial/ Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@PIVOTPODCAST Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email pivot@voxmedia.com

Scott GallowayhostKara Swisherhost
Apr 14, 202657mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:00 – 5:11

    Trump picks a fight with Pope Leo—and alienates his own base

    Kara and Scott react to Trump attacking Pope Leo on Truth Social and argue there’s no political upside to antagonizing a globally popular religious leader. They connect the outburst to broader late-night posting, infighting with right-wing media personalities, and concerns about Trump’s judgment and temperament.

    • Trump calls Pope Leo “weak on crime” and “terrible on foreign policy,” prompting backlash potential
    • Scott frames attacking the Pope as a political “third rail,” especially with evangelicals and Catholics
    • Kara links the Pope’s anti-war stance to why he’s being cast as “liberal,” despite church conservatism
    • Trump’s fights with Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, etc. widen rifts on the right
    • Discussion of Trump’s late-night posting and questions about who’s effectively managing the White House
  2. 5:11 – 6:13

    Culture detour: UFC at the White House and a tangent on combat sports

    The conversation briefly pivots to Trump-world spectacle—UFC events and appearances—before a light personal tangent about boxing and wrestling. It serves as a tonal break while reinforcing how entertainment and politics are blending in the current moment.

    • Kara cites Trump’s continued public spectacle and allies’ awkward optics
    • Scott says he was invited to a UFC fight at the White House and explains why he won’t go
    • Both describe combat sports as increasingly disturbing to watch
    • Kara shares family history with boxing/wrestling events
    • Quick jokes underscore the show’s mix of politics and cultural commentary
  3. 6:13 – 12:20

    Strait of Hormuz blockade: escalation risks and a fragile strategy

    They assess the U.S. blockade plan in the Strait of Hormuz and the potential for limited strikes, emphasizing how easy it is for Iran to create chaos at a global economic chokepoint. Kara worries about U.S. ships becoming exposed targets; Scott argues the situation reflects pre-negotiation failures and misaligned incentives.

    • Trump announces blockade plan; peace talks end without resolution; limited strikes reportedly considered
    • Kara flags vulnerability of U.S. warships to drones/speedboats and accidental escalation
    • New target set emerges: data centers and U.S. firms in the Middle East face threats
    • Scott uses a WGA strike analogy to explain incentives and why Iran benefits from delay
    • Critique of U.S. planning: lack of allies, unclear objectives, and quagmire dynamics
  4. 12:20 – 14:44

    Why closing straits matters: maritime navigation, allies, China, and leverage

    Scott argues the blockade may be the only workable move left because it forces other stakeholders—Europe, China, Gulf states—to care about keeping shipping lanes open. They discuss how credibility erodes when the U.S. “breaks it” then asks others to fix it, but stress the global importance of freedom of navigation.

    • Scott: blocking Iranian access could compel China/Europe to pressure Iran because they have more to lose
    • Freedom of maritime navigation as an underappreciated pillar of global stability and trade
    • Risks of insurers refusing to cover cargo if threats rise—effectively “closing” the strait
    • Acknowledgment that earlier U.S. choices created the bind (no Congress, no allies, no exit strategy)
    • Goal becomes a multinational framework to keep the strait open
  5. 14:44 – 17:28

    Orbán loses in Hungary: a democratic rebuke to far-right politics

    They frame Viktor Orbán’s electoral defeat as a significant European shift away from far-right rule and a blow to Russian influence. Scott emphasizes the symbolic impact for Ukraine and EU unity, while Kara notes the winner is still conservative but represents a rejection of corruption and authoritarianism.

    • Orbán ousted after 16 years; challenger Peter Magyar wins amid high turnout
    • Scott: major win for Ukraine and loss for Russia’s hoped-for European friction point
    • Kara: Magyar is not a liberal savior; he’s a conservative alternative breaking with Orbán’s corruption
    • Record participation signals public mobilization against authoritarian drift
    • Trump/Vance/Musk/Tucker’s proximity to Orbán makes the outcome politically notable
  6. 17:28 – 20:53

    A bigger lesson: conceding elections and the foundation of democracy

    Scott calls Orbán’s concession the most important element of the story, contrasting it with U.S. election denialism. They argue peaceful transfer of power is non-negotiable and note how civic norms can degrade when leaders refuse to accept outcomes.

    • Scott praises Orbán’s concession as an essential democratic norm
    • Condemns U.S. election denial by officials and nominees as character failure
    • Democracy requires losers to accept results and move on
    • Kara underscores how Hungary’s history with fascism makes civic vigilance instructive
    • Discussion of what accountability should look like when leaders lose
  7. 20:53 – 22:36

    Eric Swalwell exits California governor’s race amid assault allegations

    After the break, Kara details allegations against Rep. Eric Swalwell and his rapid collapse of endorsements and candidacy. They discuss why such rumors persist inside political ecosystems, why media may hesitate, and what the scandal means for the crowded California race.

    • Swalwell resigns from Congress and suspends campaign amid rape/assault/misconduct allegations
    • Kara: story surfaced online first, then major outlets followed; suggests behavior was widely known
    • Swift endorsement collapse shows political consequences can be immediate
    • Speculation on race dynamics and possible entrants; field includes Tom Steyer and Katie Porter
    • Debate about media accountability vs. “hunting” for salacious stories
  8. 22:36 – 30:44

    Power imbalance standards: office relationships, governance, and structural reforms

    Scott distinguishes between private moral judgment and institutional risk: senior officials can’t sleep with staff due to coercion risks and organizational liability, regardless of criminality. They broaden into reforms—money in politics, pay, and incentives—that create environments where misconduct and corruption thrive.

    • Scott: if an elected official has sex with staff, that alone should be disqualifying due to power imbalance
    • Criminal allegations should be investigated by law enforcement, but workplace red lines should be clear
    • Kara notes this case goes beyond consensual workplace romance and needs investigation
    • Scott calls for structural reforms: overturn Citizens United, end gerrymandering, increase lawmaker pay
    • Argument that weak governance norms enable scandals and corruption (stocks, influence, etc.)
  9. 30:44 – 33:32

    Treasury warns banks about Anthropic’s Mythos model and cyber risk

    Kara reports on Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Fed Chair Jerome Powell briefing top banks about risks from Anthropic’s powerful Mythos model. They discuss how advanced models can amplify offensive cyber capabilities faster than defenses and highlight tensions between government and AI labs.

    • Bessent meets bank executives and Powell to warn about Anthropic’s Mythos model
    • Anthropic reportedly restricting access to a small set of testers to surface vulnerabilities
    • Concern: offense outpaces defense in cybersecurity as models improve
    • Kara contrasts warning efforts with Pentagon/Anthropic legal conflict
    • Theme: government needs credible oversight and coordinated regulation of frontier tech
  10. 33:32 – 40:45

    Sam Altman targeted: violence, public anger at AI, and the need for regulation

    They condemn attacks on Sam Altman’s home and OpenAI HQ and argue violence cannot be justified—even amid real grievances about tech’s social harms. Scott says CEOs operate legally because regulation is absent; Kara argues tech leaders should not scapegoat journalism for unstable actors’ violence.

    • Altman’s home attacked with Molotov cocktail and gunfire; suspect later threatens OpenAI HQ
    • Kara: blaming investigative journalism is wrong; anger predates any single article
    • Scott: zero tolerance for violence against any citizen; channel anger into elections
    • Discussion of rapid “brand collapse” for tech leaders and why regulation—not vigilantism—is the remedy
    • Calls for gating/guardrails (e.g., youth protections) and policy-based accountability for tech power
  11. 40:45 – 43:09

    News roundup: Paramount–WBD deal backlash and AI-driven disruption fears

    Kara reads a Hollywood letter opposing the Paramount/Warner Bros. Discovery acquisition and the companies’ assurances, which both hosts doubt. Scott predicts massive creative-industry displacement and criticizes unions for reacting too late to the consolidation and automation implications.

    • Over 1,000 Hollywood figures oppose Paramount’s acquisition of WBD
    • Paramount promises more output and theatrical releases; hosts question credibility
    • Scott predicts AI will be used to justify efficiencies and layoffs at the scale needed for the deal
    • Kara argues a better structure would have been earlier spinoffs and targeted acquisitions
    • They fault labor/industry groups for delayed coordination and leverage-building
  12. 43:09 – 45:06

    Musk’s PAC money, FTC pressure, and the weaponization of government

    They connect Elon Musk’s political spending to regulatory pressure campaigns and settlements by ad firms. Scott argues the underlying enabler is campaign finance—Citizens United—allowing billionaires to buy influence with extraordinary ROI.

    • Musk donates $10M to GOP super PACs; FTC probes ad firms avoiding X; firms settle
    • Kara characterizes current regulators as unusually aligned with Musk and political pressure tactics
    • Scott: a small group of donors drives disproportionate PAC spending; influence becomes strategic weapon
    • Citizens United as the root amplifier of billionaire control
    • Argument that corruption is increasingly brazen and efficient, not merely hidden
  13. 45:06 – 46:34

    Courts vs. Trump’s media lawsuits: First Amendment resilience, but chilling effects

    They note a judge dismissing Trump’s $10B Wall Street Journal suit about an Epstein birthday card story. Scott warns that even when suits fail, the volume can still chill reporting due to legal risk and costly verification burdens.

    • Federal judge dismisses Trump’s defamation suit against The Wall Street Journal
    • Contrast with outlets that settled (e.g., CBS/ABC mentioned) vs. fighting in court
    • Scott: First Amendment remains a critical bulwark; many cases get “swatted away”
    • But nuisance litigation creates a chilling effect—newsrooms may avoid marginal stories
    • Broader theme of institutional resilience under pressure
  14. 46:34 – 57:12

    Wins & fails: Kara’s CNN series, Orbán’s concession, and celebrity tone-deafness

    Scott praises Kara’s show Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever for high production value and calls Orbán’s concession a democratic “win.” Kara’s fail targets Melania Trump’s odd public messaging and a tone-deaf profile of Lauren Sánchez; Kara’s win highlights the final season of Hacks and its sharp writing.

    • Scott’s win: Kara’s CNN series production quality and impact; humorous note about J.D. Vance preempting airtime
    • Scott’s second win: Orbán conceding as a model for democratic norms
    • Kara’s fail: Melania Trump speech feels self-serving and dismissive of real victims; confusion about Epstein resurgence
    • Kara’s fail: Lauren Sánchez profile reads as performative; “keep it to yourself” ethos
    • Kara’s win: Hacks final season—Jean Smart and ensemble praised for prescient commentary and comedy

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