Justin Theroux on AI, Scriptwriting, and the Hollywood State of Play | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 0:21

   Justin Theroux joins Pivot and sets the context (Beetlejuice Beetlejuice)

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Justin Theroux is an actor and a writer, and his latest role is in a little film called Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Uh, Justin is also a Pivot fan. That's how we met him. Welcome to Pivot, finally.

   2. JTJustin Theroux0:12

      Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me on this show. I am a huge Pivot fan.

   3. KSKara Swisher0:17

      We're thrilled to have you here, and, uh, we're thrilled to have you with such success. Scott, go for it.

2. 0:21 – 1:24

   Hollywood’s risk aversion: fewer ‘easy buys’ for original scripts

   1. SGScott Galloway0:21

      If you were talking to a group of analysts or investors about what's going on in Hollywood, how would you describe the industry right now? Like, what do you see coming? What are your, what are your thoughts on scripted television, the streaming wars? What do you, what do you s- w- Give us the state of play from Justin Theroux.

   2. JTJustin Theroux0:39

      Without disclosing anything to anyone ab-, uh, you know, I, I've gone out with a couple projects this year that I think, uh, over the last 10 years would have been, um, easy buys, you know, like, like this is a, a thoughtful, interesting script that's engaging, um, that has o- uh, many elements that we haven't seen on television. And, you know, a couple of those have not been accepted, and it was the first time where I thought, "Oh, wow, there really isn't an appetite for, um, wonderful, uh, at the moment." That's not to say that it's ... I don't know whose fault that is. Could be my scripts. Could be that, that these are just not good scripts and my, my-

   3. KSKara Swisher1:19

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JTJustin Theroux1:19

      ... radar has gone completely whack.

   5. KSKara Swisher1:21

      No, I've heard that from a lot of people.

   6. JTJustin Theroux1:22

      You know-

   7. KSKara Swisher1:23

      I've heard that from a lot of people.

   8. JTJustin Theroux1:24

      Yeah, and I-

3. 1:24 – 2:31

   Fear-driven ‘safe bets’: returning to familiar procedural formulas

   1. KSKara Swisher1:24

      It's like, it, it's not discriminating. It's that they don't know what's about to happen, and so they don't wanna take that risk.

   2. JTJustin Theroux1:29

      Yeah, I think, I think there's a moment-

   3. KSKara Swisher1:31

      Especially at this point in time.

   4. JTJustin Theroux1:31

      ... of fear, you know. It's, it's like, you know, if you're a ... And I'm not a stock market guy, but if you were a stock market guy, um, like you guys sort of follow, um, you, you're kinda just going, "Yeah, okay, look. Let's just ... We're gonna put our chips on Coca-Cola. We're gonna spread our chips, uh, you know, across, you know, whatever it is, IBM and Apple and ..." And, you know, they're, they're like, "We're not gonna, you know, we're not interested in a cool little startup that might win a couple Golden Globes anymore," you know? Um, uh, "We're gonna just play it safe." I'm, I'm hearing a lot of ... Uh, and on the writing front, uh, on those sort of meetings that I've taken, they're like, "Do you have anything ..." And then they basically, without describing a medical procedural drama set in a hospital in Chicago, they basically describe that, and you're going, "Well, you're just talking about, um, you know, ER, Grey's Anatomy, or something." And you're thinking, "What? Wait, what? W- we're making ... We wanna make those?" Like ... Um, but I think ... You know, I'm an optimist, so I think those, th- this will bounce back. I think, um,

4. 2:31 – 2:56

   Why Justin remains optimistic: more outlets, new opportunities (YouTube/TikTok)

   1. JTJustin Theroux2:31

      I think, you know, the good news is, is we still have enormous, uh, an enormous amount of outlets, an enormous amount of channels. And frankly, I think it, you know, it, it gives YouTube an opportunity to play, uh, you know, uh, in a bigger ... You know, they still have a big pot of money, I think, that they could play with and do some interesting things, or ... Uh, you know, I'm, still don't quite understand how TikTok is gonna make some money, but, uh, you know, they're certainly positioned to.

5. 2:56 – 3:07

   Choosing projects amid theatrical vs. streaming uncertainty

   1. KSKara Swisher2:56

      What do you do when you're signing onto a project now? W- we ... Not just theaters versus streaming, but where to go, 'cause you, you, you-

   2. JTJustin Theroux3:03

      I don't know.

   3. KSKara Swisher3:03

      ... have a little more-

   4. JTJustin Theroux3:04

      I mean-

   5. KSKara Swisher3:04

      ... uh, agency 'cause you do more stuff, right?

6. 3:07 – 3:43

   Comic detour: Scott as ‘Hollywood mogul’ and the realities of pitching

   1. JTJustin Theroux3:07

      Well, Scott's the big Hollywood mogul now. He's the one selling scripts, getting greedy-

   2. KSKara Swisher3:11

      Yes, we understand.

   3. JTJustin Theroux3:12

      ... on that room left and right. Um, but-

   4. SGScott Galloway3:13

      100% glad you finally acknowledged that.

   5. JTJustin Theroux3:14

      (laughs)

   6. SGScott Galloway3:14

      I'm glad you're in touch with your feelings and not threatened by our friendship, Justin.

   7. JTJustin Theroux3:18

      (laughs)

   8. SGScott Galloway3:18

      Yeah, that's right.

   9. JTJustin Theroux3:19

      Um, uh, and I'm out here in the desert just lookin' for a drop of water.

   10. KSKara Swisher3:23

       When you just said YouTube, like, when you're making project decisions, you know, it was a while when the tech companies came in, and now they're real buyers, right? Apple is a real buyer of-

   11. JTJustin Theroux3:32

       Yeah.

   12. KSKara Swisher3:32

       ... pretty good stuff, right?

   13. JTJustin Theroux3:34

       Yeah.

   14. KSKara Swisher3:34

       Some of it good, some of it not, but a lot of it good.

   15. JTJustin Theroux3:36

       Absolutely.

   16. KSKara Swisher3:37

       Um, i- i- ... Where do you, how do you make a decision of who you're gonna affiliate with now? 'Cause it's so much-

7. 3:43 – 4:16

   Platform fit: matching tone and brand to the right buyer

   1. JTJustin Theroux3:43

      Well, now we're starting-

   2. KSKara Swisher3:44

      You know, so many choices and at the same time ...

   3. JTJustin Theroux3:46

      You know, uh, without describing what each characteristic is, I think each place has, um ... You start to go, "Oh, this feels like it wants to be at X" You know, that's the decision that everyone makes, so you ... So a script comes in or, or is created, and then you go, "All right, where are we gonna take it?" And then you go, "You know who would be ..." Yeah, and then you sort of isolate your three best buyers for it. You know, if you have a hard-charging, R-rated comedy, um, that's, that's really gonna be, you know, um, trying to find the, the

8. 4:16 – 5:16

   Examples: why edgy comedy may suit Netflix and prestige drama may suit FX

   1. JTJustin Theroux4:16

      edges of the room, um, comedically, you're not gonna probably go to Apple with it necessarily because, um, you know, they're ... I think their, you know, their business is iPhones. They, you know, they don't wanna do anything that messes that up, but nor should they. Um, uh, you're gonna probably go to Netflix 'cause that's Ted Sarandos who's, who's shown to have some, some real spine when it comes to putting, uh, edgy comedy out there. Um, so it's, it's, um, uh, it's sort of like that. I don't know. And for dramas, I don't know, you think, you know, "Well, this is a very piquant, you know, um, maybe, you know, a, a, a much harder needle-to-thread, uh, drama about a blah, blah, blah." Well, we might go to FX with that because, um, you know, uh, you know, they only make a couple things a year. Uh, th- their output isn't as high as Netflix, but, but FX re- this really feels like it belongs with them. You, you wanna find your partner. I mean, it's, it's kinda like dating, you know? Um, if you want, you know, some sort of a, you know,

9. 5:16 – 5:42

   The ‘dating’ analogy: why partnership alignment determines success

   1. JTJustin Theroux5:16

      whatever you're ... You know, whatever you're ... If you're wanting to swipe right or left, you know, you wanna sort of find the right, um ... You just wanna find the right partnership 'cause inevitably if you, if, if in those situations where you make a piece of content, which is a word I hate, um, uh, and it's not a happy marriage, it will not be a successful show. You know, you want everybody singing in the same key, if that makes any sense.

10. 5:42 – 6:15

    AI in Hollywood: new laws, studio adoption, and strike-era anxieties

    1. KSKara Swisher5:42

       When, (laughs) when we talk, uh, uh, we talk about AI all the time on the show, and there's been a lot of news in Hollywood this week. California Governor Gavin Newsom just signed a pair of bills that will give actors more protection over their digital likenesses. Lionsgate plans to start using generative AI in the creation of its new movies and TV shows according to The Wall Street Journal. I- as a writer and, and, and, uh, uh, es- particularly as a writer but also as an actor, how do you look at these things? It was a big contention during the, the strikes, um-You, how do you look at AI right now and do you use it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it?

11. 6:15 – 7:38

    Justin’s firsthand AI writing test: ‘anodyne’ outputs with occasional sparks

    1. JTJustin Theroux6:15

       I don't, you know, uh, a- and again, full skedit- credit to my friend Scott, he, I, you know, when I would hear you guys talk about it, like, "This is coming. This is a tool. This is a thing." Um, I'm writing a script currently.

    2. KSKara Swisher6:26

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JTJustin Theroux6:26

       I reached out to Scott and I said, "Okay, what do I download? How does it work? Is it private?" You know, like, uh, "What are they taking from me? What are they not?" And he said probably the, uh, the most accurate thing. He says it's, uh, you know, AI as far as writing goes and as far as, you know, being able to write the right prompts for it, is largely pretty anodyne. So I dropped in a, uh, uh, a- it took me a f- a while to figure out, you know, what parameters I wanted to sort of put in and h- what prompts I needed to give it to sort of really get where n- where it was going. Um, and it gave me back something exactly as Scott predicted, which was anodyne. It was very kind of vanilla. Um, but it had a f- uh, uh, um, uh, it had a couple little toe holds in it where I thought, "Oh, this is, that's interesting. I hadn't considered that."

    4. KSKara Swisher7:16

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JTJustin Theroux7:16

       So, it was, uh, uh, uh, uh, in the f- few instances where I've sort of used it or, you know, uh, had a bit of writer's block and going, "Oh, maybe." Um, it's kind of like, uh, a writing partner in a way in that it, it can kick back an idea that you weren't necessarily expecting. Um...

    6. KSKara Swisher7:35

       Yeah. Yeah, ideas.

    7. JTJustin Theroux7:36

       So, uh, but I-

    8. KSKara Swisher7:36

       It's ideas that you didn't know.

12. 7:38 – 8:12

    AI as faster-than-Google research: period accuracy and language origins

    1. JTJustin Theroux7:38

       Yes. It's ideas that I didn't, I didn't think. Uh, uh, uh, it likewise can be helpful in saying, in just answering simple questions in a way that Google doesn't. You know, like, uh, uh, I'm working on this period thing and I needed to know sort of the origins of the word fuck and, and, um, you know, whether this thing, whether the-

    2. KSKara Swisher7:55

       Oh.

    3. JTJustin Theroux7:55

       ... that word works in a, in a period piece. You know? And so in this timeframe, um-

    4. KSKara Swisher8:00

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JTJustin Theroux8:00

       ... uh, give me examples of the time, you know, that, you know, that the word fuck was used or first example, whatever. Um, and it sort of just gets to the point a little quicker than, than-

    6. KSKara Swisher8:08

       Wow.

    7. JTJustin Theroux8:08

       ... than Google does, you know, um, with citations and stuff.

13. 8:12 – 8:37

    Wrap-up and plug: Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, plus a promise to return

    1. KSKara Swisher8:12

       Oh, wow. I'm excited to see that now. I'm excited to use that. Anyway, Justin Theroux, you are, we are your biggest fan actually.

    2. JTJustin Theroux8:18

       We are, guys.

    3. KSKara Swisher8:18

       And you can catch him-

    4. SGScott Galloway8:19

       Nice man.

    5. KSKara Swisher8:19

       ... if you wanna see him in Beetlejuice Betelgeuse and he's ter- uh, he's terrific in it. It's really great. Thank you so much.

    6. SGScott Galloway8:27

       Thanks, Justin.

    7. JTJustin Theroux8:28

       I wanna come back, Scott, and I wanna talk about my feelings later. Thanks, gang.

Episode duration: 8:37