PivotKash Patel Defends FBI's New Policy on Bestiality. Kara and Scott Have Questions.
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 13,510 words- 0:00 – 0:30
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
Sydney Sweeney is probably gonna be soon the youngest self-made female billionaire
- KSKara Swisher
But I don't think she's, like, winning it. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Hey, Scott. I just flew in from California.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, really? So did I-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... day before.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, anyway. Well, here we are. But listen, I have a lot to tell you about things I've been doing this week, but we have a big announcement breaking late
- 0:30 – 1:25
Pivot Tour Announce
- KSKara Swisher
yesterday. We are going on tour.
- SGScott Galloway
Yes, we are. Super excited. Back in Canada. We've added Denver, which I'm excited about.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, let me, let me see. We're kicking off November 2nd in New York City, and then we hit Toronto, Minneapolis, LA, San Francisco, and Denver. And you can head to pivottour.com for tickets. We do sell out pretty quickly, so please get there, and we want all our fans there. And if you're not following us on social media, you're not gonna get all the latest announcement, and our, our handles are in the show notes. But let me tell you something, it's gonna be good. We're gonna have so many, so many amazing secret guests. Correct? We are?
- SGScott Galloway
I gotta give it to you, Kara. You give good event.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You're very good at this.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Where, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... you know, I just kinda show up and-
- KSKara Swisher
Is there anyone you absolutely want in any of these cities? Toronto, obviously-
- SGScott Galloway
Sydney Sweeney. Sydney Sweeney
- KSKara Swisher
... Sydney. I, I can try. I can try. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
I know her boyfriend.
- SGScott Galloway
Actually, as a palate cleanser-
- 1:25 – 10:50
Sydney Sweeney Ad Controversy
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... what do you think of all this controversy-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh
- SGScott Galloway
... on, on the scrub?
- KSKara Swisher
You know, I don't care. I... Like, sh- it's stupid. I don't think it's a good ad, okay? I just don't think it's a good ad. I think it's a stupid Purina ad and it's not very clever. Like, if you go back and watch the Brooke Shields ads, which were very controversial, they're very funny. The, the dialogue is super funny. This is just dumb. It's like boobs, also boobs, and some boobs, and I get why guys like it. What do you think? You like boobs?
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I think my taste is a little bit more com- well-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, all right. I'm sorry. I f- forget that you've developed
- SGScott Galloway
... all the notion that it's ruining women's sports and the outrage, I think it's ridiculous. I think that if she were a, a Black gay progressive, uh, it would be, "My body, my choice. Sex is work." Um, you know, "Girl boss," and instead because she's a white MAGA, uh, Republican, everyone's outraged.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's a double standard-
- KSKara Swisher
No. What is happening to you?
- SGScott Galloway
And, well, I don't know
- KSKara Swisher
Like, everyone's going away from Trump. You're moving that direction.
- SGScott Galloway
No.
- KSKara Swisher
No, I don't think so at all
- SGScott Galloway
... I can still be a critical thinker. It's entire-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, no
- SGScott Galloway
... this is entire, this is entire identity escalation bullshit politics.
- KSKara Swisher
N- no, it's just a stupid ad. Like, I don't, I don't really care.
- SGScott Galloway
No, I'm not talking about the ad.
- KSKara Swisher
All right.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm not, I'm talking about, I'm talking about the reaction to it.
- KSKara Swisher
I know. Oh, I don't know. I just, you know, I, I think if you, if you're a woman in sports, you have made a lot of strides, and it-
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed
- KSKara Swisher
... it's irritating. It's, it, it's still remaining-
- SGScott Galloway
Is it irritating when Sports Illustrated does an entire episode on their bodies? Is it irritating-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes
- SGScott Galloway
... when US Open men take off their shirts to increase their clout?
- KSKara Swisher
No. No, it's not the same thing. You know it's not. And by the way-
- SGScott Galloway
No, it's not
- 10:50 – 18:23
Canada/EU Partnership
- KSKara Swisher
Prime Minister Mark Carney, this is a good example, addressed the EU Parliament a little while ago saying Europe and Canada are stronger together. The speech comes a day after European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen proposed that Canada become EU's first associate member. I'm not sure, it's like a junior member or whatever. Let's listen to Carney explain his vision of this partnership.
- SPSpeaker
We do not seek power to dominate others. On the contrary, we are pursuing resilience so no one, no one can control our open markets, impair our sovereignty, threaten our territorial integrity, or undermine our freedoms, our democracies, our rule of law. [applause]
- KSKara Swisher
He was clear about what this alliance is not about.
- SPSpeaker
I also want to be precise about what I am not proposing. I'm not proposing a third bloc in order to become a great power rival, only with better manners.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Trump is not happy about this. Even before Carney's speech, he said Canada was becoming, becoming an associate member of the EU could be a hostile act, and he threatened to punish Europe with, you guessed it, tariffs. Jess, this is a real, like, what, any advice on Trump losing friends? 'Cause he loses a lot of, there's a lot of friends he's lost. I'm not sure Canada was ever his friend
- SPSpeaker
Some people are beyond hope, which is part of the book, that you are not enforced to have friendships that you don't want to. Um, but what Mark Carney was doing, and as I was listening to the speech this morning before I hopped on here, I was thinking, "This man is parenting," right? He's doing the same thing that we would do with any of our kids-
- KSKara Swisher
Crazy
- SPSpeaker
... and explaining in very clear terms, "We do not seek to dominate others. Do not push someone on the playground." It is, like, a very easy rule to teach. But what he did do, because this is an arc, right? A journey that Mark Carney has been on, and he did a lot of the things that we talked about are in I Disagree. He started with the soft start originally, and he said, like, "We're pals. We have a lot-- It's important. 800-- What is it? 800 billion in trade, second biggest partner. We want to make this work. We share this border. We share our values." Then he went to, "Let's talk in averages and not anecdotes. Let's get to the brass tacks of this. This isn't about my feelings. This is a win-win for everybody." And then when the toddler couldn't deal with reality, he dropped the bomb, and he said, "Here I am. Let me into the EU, and, uh, let's figure out a bright future together." So he didn't get an advanced copy of the book-
- KSKara Swisher
Obviously
- SPSpeaker
... but I feel like-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... he saw what is in it.
- KSKara Swisher
So he's-- So, but is he cutting off? 'Cause you said you don't h- as you said, you don't have to remain friends with everyone. Or is he leaving an opening? Like, is this, like, a, a-
- SPSpeaker
I don't think you can ever cut off the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, that's just not feasible, and you share-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, Trump, he can cut off Trump.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Well, he could also make a plan for the next two years and change, and then pray that someone sane, and that someone sane doesn't necessarily have to be a Democrat. I don't think if Marco Rubio was in charge that he would be going about it this way, or even a J.D. Vance. So I think that he wants to send a strong message, obviously. He has tried a lot of different ways to be able to have this conversation, to make it clear it's worth your while and keep the relationship. And, uh, n- now he's got to do what's best for Canadians and what his people are telling him that they want. They're ready to take the pain in order to have their sovereignty and their dignity.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Scott, what do you think? What would you do if you were him, besides talk about Sydney Sweeney's boobs? But go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
The-
- SPSpeaker
He's-
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] Go ahead, Jess.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, no, I was gonna say Scott's probably gonna say he's also very attractive, which he is. It's a different look than Sydney Sweeney, but-
- SGScott Galloway
Actually, Kara objectifies Carney all the time, and I'm really uncomfortable with it. She's constantly referencing his looks. Anyways, it's very upsetting. Um, so look, uh, uh, America being indignant here and s- calling it an act of hostility is like, uh, you know, someone who's in an abusive relationship, and then the husband finds out, what do you know, she's downloaded Hinge. I mean-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... this just can't be that surprising. We used to b- we used to be the head of the cool table in the cafeteria, and we walked in, and now it's just us at the cool table. Th- this is-- Of course, they're looking for new partners.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Of course they are.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They'd be st- they'd be irresponsible not to.
- 18:23 – 27:06
How to Disagree Better
- KSKara Swisher
can we get back to disagreeing in a better way? 'Cause now it's, like, a real, it's sort of like scorched earth at this point. And, you know, I think you do do a great job on, on The Five, although it's very disconcerting that they just, they don't seem to listen at all. Like, they never let... There's no movement in their, in their... Or maybe they're just performative, I don't know.
- SPSpeaker
There have been signs of movement. I, I keep a list on my wall.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I'm just kidding. But, uh, but you're also, you're doing it for the people that you're talking to, but also who else might be listening. And in this algorithmically dominant universe, you know, your audience can be any number of places. Remember when Mamdani came on with Martha MacCallum before the election, and he had points that he wanted to make to distinct groups, he spoke directly into the camera, Andrew Cuomo. You speak to the voters, you speak to the president. You know, understanding who you're tailoring the message for and making sure that it's getting to those places is as important as the content of what it is that you're saying. And I did think on the AI front and Trump saying, you know, "You just need the most intelligent president in the world," which you have here. I thought it was interesting that Carney included this AI partnership in his offering to the EU. It doesn't even really count as that 'cause the EU has said, "We want you," for whatever the special relationship is gonna be. And, and that felt like a real shot across our bow as well, since we're having this debate about, you know, do you regulate, do you not, and if they're gonna shift towards the EU model, or what kind of progress they might create together without us.
- KSKara Swisher
But when you... W- What, what's the fault? Is it, is it Trump, or is it that we've, that, that the online has turned us into sort of these dunk masters?
- SPSpeaker
Well, Trump is the problem. I mean, Trump is a fundamental problem. Uh, but he's only exposed things that was our-- that were already in people, right? They're-- It was just waiting to be pulled out of them. And from working in conservative media, and we've talked about this before, I was not aware of how deep grievance culture from the Obama years was, and not just in the racist way. It, it's not that. Um, you know, the economic issues, cultural issues, and you've seen that huge pendulum swing back, where we've gotten so much more fiscally liberal and culturally conservative on a comparative basis to where I thought we were. Um, so Trump is a symptom of it, obviously, and he's a vehicle for a lot of this, um, and has, has reframed the way that we do politics. Um, but it doesn't mean it can't be mastered by other people and-
- KSKara Swisher
Mastered in a good way, not in this bad way.
- SPSpeaker
In a good way-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... yeah, to understand how you wield it. I mean, we have examples of people who use the internet and their followings and communities, uh, for good, even if you don't love their politics. You look at an AOC, for instance, and you think, "Okay," like, "I, I understand where this could go in a positive direction." But I don't think people are going to... There will be no one who disagrees like Trump again. It is a, a case study of one.
- KSKara Swisher
Of, of-- who disag- and doesn't wanna listen, essentially. Is there any way-
- SPSpeaker
Well, can't. He's broken
- KSKara Swisher
... what would you advise him? Oh, you just think he's broken. It doesn't matter.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, I-- he seems pretty broken to me.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Well, what I-- he's definitely getting advised the right things. It's not as if Republicans on the ground don't know what's going on. They're pleading for money. They're pleading for the right kind of support, saying... They're stripping him off their websites. I mean, MAGA Inc, the big PAC, can't even send out money under the name MAGA Inc. They have to put it out in other vehicles because the brand is so toxic. You have Karl Rove, like you said, voting for a Democrat. Like, uh, things have changed.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] So if you're J.D. Vance, who probably can, or Maro- Marco Rubio, what do you do if you are the candidate? Do you-- You start to bring everyone together again. You don't keep this up, because neither of them are capable of keeping up the anger. I don't think they're, I don't think they're actually like that. You know, I don't think they're comfortable as Trump is in that space.
- SPSpeaker
I think Vance would be fine with it if he could pull it off. I don't think he's built like that. He's, uh, too... I don't wanna just say weak, but you know, he's so malleable, fungible as a human, you know? So I, I don't think he has the backbone for it, and I don't think Marco Rubio has the interest. I, I think he will convert back to something looking more like the 2016 version with some America First updates. Um, but I think that they will know, especially if a strong message is sent in the midterms, that the party, the Republican Party cannot survive 2028, even with the redistricting and the census, um, if they try America First 2.0.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, anger, just not dis- not agreeing.
- SPSpeaker
Well, anger and no, and no deliverables. That's what people... They, they said in 2024, "I actually don't care that this guy is terrible, just give me money in my pocket." And now that there's no money in your pocket, they're certainly not going to accept this kind of leadership.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Scott, last question.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, for, for the first time in probably 20 years, I watched a full Fox program 'cause I wanted to watch The Five, and what I found is that the clips are more antagonistic than the general vibe.
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... what, what I would say is I think they just, I, I think they're less rude than a lot of the clips would indicate to you, and, uh, w- and I want you to comment on it, but one, you bring data. Two, I get the sense the audience wants to hear what you have to say. And three, I generally get the sense that your four colleagues really like you and respect you enough that they don't want to, you know, show you a, you know, a certain level of disrespect. Not my question. Talk about bringing this to your personal life. Like, when you examine this topic, how has it changed the way you, quote-unquote, "argue" or resolve disputes with, with your, your husband or your family?
- KSKara Swisher
And any advice for Scott and I.
- SGScott Galloway
Since he's political
- SPSpeaker
I think you guys are gonna be fine
- SGScott Galloway
Roger Fed- Roger Federer should lean into his acting. Those are his real assets-
- 27:06 – 33:46
Universal Gets Cold Feet on Elon Doc
- SPSpeaker
about a movie I have seen. Universal, which has worldwide distribution rights outside North America to Alice Gibney's new Elon Musk documentary, is reportedly getting cold feet about releasing the film internationally. The studio paid a multimillion-dollar sum for the international rights back in twenty twenty-three. If it walks away now, it could be, uh, required to pay off the filmmakers, and then they can go and sell it. Um, they're r- r- you know, it's not clear what they're gonna do. I, I know people, uh, close to it, and they, they just haven't said anything, and so they're not able to get the-- I mean, there's a lot of international interest in this film. Um, people really dislike Elon in Europe particularly, for example. Um, but, and, and people wanna see it, uh, there. And so it's interesting, another, yet another company could be sort of bending the knee at this late date and worried about it. Uh, Elon's called the documentary a hit piece and boring. It's not boring, though there's no indication he's actually seen it. It is absolutely not boring. Um, I just, uh, uh, I know a little bit about it. Um, there's a, there's-- They, they have to pay Universal a negative pickup fee on delivery, and, um, it's-- they've just been silent. Universal has been silent with, and, and with the group that owns the documentary. And, um, you know, probably if they walk away, there's other distributors. There's a lot of them in the story that was written. A lot of distributors are really interested in it. Um, uh, but it, it's, it's just interesting, the silence and not doing anything, 'cause all these c- Now, now Comcast is facing an issue. The owner of Universal is facing an issue with, again, the moron Brendan Carr around DEI stuff. Um, and they're all sort of continuing to be kind of just, just still nervous about the Trump administration and what it can do. I think the time is limited for them, and they continue to do it, which is, you know... I'm not, I'm not loving that they're doing this. What do you think? And I really like Donna Langley, who runs it. I like Brian Roberts, but it's still possibly disappointing depending on what happens.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it's, uh, the issue isn't, isn't whether the Musk documentary is accurate, not accurate, if it's good or bad. The issue is when a media company discovers that distributing journalism about a powerful person carries commercial and political risk. And that's the fear here, is that this all creates a chill around journalism and speaking truth to power, and power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts, and the media has always been exceptionally good. I mean, you feel this, and I feel this. And w- when you get to a certain footprint, people start, quite frankly, looking for reasons to shitpost you. And quite, and some of it is healthy. You know, power should be checked along the way. There should be friction, and the studio finds it in its, in itself, or it finds itself in a place now where it's basically got, like, a... You know, there's nothing it can do. It's a hot potato that will burn no matter what they do. If they f- if they drop it, it burns. They're, they're in an, they're in an unwinnable position. If they try to distance themselves from it, they probably lose money, and they look weak, and everyone, everyone in the industry will start, you know, just being outraged, right? And if they do give in, if they do bend a n- if they do bend a knee, then they just absolutely... Or if they move forward with it, they go cross-haired There is real temptation right now to the following strategy, keep a low profile, stay the fuck out of his way.
- KSKara Swisher
Until he's gone.
- SGScott Galloway
He's twenty-four... Yeah. There's twenty-four months.
- KSKara Swisher
Or less. He may be, he may be-
- SGScott Galloway
Just
- KSKara Swisher
... very hindered after the elections, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
The original scripted series around big tech I was working on got shut down, and I don't think it was, I don't think it was politically motivated, but we had so many talented people involved. The production house immediately was like, "Oh, this will be p-" We had multiple bidders when we first pitched it. Now, crickets. People are like, "You know what, boss? It might be amazing. Let's talk about it again. Right now, just not worth the headache." [chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. That's inter- It, it-
- SGScott Galloway
That's a chill
- KSKara Swisher
... that is, it's definitely a chill. It's, it's interesting 'cause there are a lot of very anti-tech movies about to come out. Like, there's this... I s- I was interviewing Aaron Sorkin last night at a private event w- of ex-Facebook people in Mountain View, right near Meta actually, um, about, uh, of the social reckoning. Um, there's, you know, Musk documentary, there's Artificial. There's, like, a lot of... You know, and on television, like, The Audacity, there's a lot of, you know, tech as villains out there. It's not like it's not out there. Um, but I think it's, I think in this case it's a nonfiction and it's a very, highly litigious person. Um, i-i- I don't know. I just, I would just say, "Oh, fuck it. We made it. We paid for..." I think at the time they got it, he, he wasn't so Mus- he wasn't so Trumpy, right? This, this has gone on, this movie, for many years.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that's the thing.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's not being anti-tech that's dangerous, it's being anti-Trump.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And Musk is considered very closely affiliated-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... with Musk or, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... with Trump right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. And of course, again, Brendan Carr is, like, again making noise about... You know, he's even going after, possibly going after, um, Ro- the Roku deal, um, 'cause this guy is, this guy is really quite, like, a ridiculous f-
- SGScott Galloway
He's going after the Roku deal?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they're looking at it. They're looking at like they're... Or the Justice Department might, and I'm not sure he can, but there's all... 'Cause there's a device and the FCC might... It's like he's... I think they're probably mad at, at Murdoch's being much tougher on Trump recently. Um, you know, it sort of messages. I, I do think there'll be a growing resistance to Trump. You sort of are starting to see little bits and pieces of the pushback. Um, but we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, Mark Zuckerberg steps into the great AI safety debate. [upbeat music]
- SGScott Galloway
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- KSKara Swisher
[upbeat music] Scott, we're back. All of a sudden, this is the only ch- story, AI killing us essentially. Um,
- 33:46 – 42:45
Zuck Weighs in on AI Safety
- KSKara Swisher
Mark Zuckerberg has entered the chat. In a post on X, Zuckerberg has said AI labs should prioritize safely but pushed back on calls for industry slowdown. Of course he did. He's arguing that competition and legal liability already give companies sufficient reason to build their models responsibly, which is bullshit, 'cause suing on these things is long and hard, and they have a lot of money. "It's up to each AI company to make sure the technology is safe," he said. I think that's correct, but essentially he wants them to grade their own homework. To back up his argument, Zuckerberg said Meta delayed release of its Muse AI agent for several months to ensure safety and security. We'll see about that, Mark. Um, I, I, I think, you know, it's... So the difficulty of this debate is everyone's got kind of a different take, whether it's Jensen Huang or Elon or Altman or Modi, and they're all talking, and David Sacks, they're all talking at once, and it's very confusing, and I don't trust any of them. Like, it's really an, an odd position to be in. What do you think about what Zuckerberg was saying, that they can... You... We can get them through liability or, or just their good nature of not wanting to kill people?
- SGScott Galloway
Ugh. Yeah, and, and, and Stalin's like, "Can't we just all get along?" Uh, it just... This is, this is the fox you find in your henhouse, and then he says to the farmer, "I got this. Don't worry. You can leave. I got this." There are... 60% of Americans say they aren't confident US companies will develop and use AI responsibly, and 67% have little or no confidence government can regulate it effectively. And, and to Zuckerberg's credit, he is partially right. Meta delayed Muse, and OpenAI is publicly reporting incidents.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I'm gonna... Do you want me to note what they are? Six incidents of what are called concerning. I love when people use the word concerning.
- SGScott Galloway
Concerning, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
The company says its AI systems hid mistakes, made up data, moved files into the open internet without permission. Also, the dialogue is creepy. Essentially, it wants to kill all of us. Um, OpenAI now has developed new framework for reporting this behavior. An employee can request that an incident be investigated and disclosed publicly. Um, this is policing themselves, but I'm like... They're like, "Look, we told you what happened." I'm like, "I don't like what happened." But, but, but go, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'll just remind people, you've never had an industry this, this large that's been allowed to police itself. Now, either we've been wrong all along and we should just let them do whatever they want-
- KSKara Swisher
Planes, cars, all those people, yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... but we're in uncharted territory because we've never had companies with this much power and this much capital. Meta alone is gonna spend $150 million of CapEx this year, so that's, that's not a company. It's a Manhattan Project with quarterly earnings calls.
- KSKara Swisher
Very good. Well said, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
There's a scene in Oppenheimer where they say, "Well, what if this starts, keeps igniting, and it doesn't stop?" Uh, and he said, "Well, we're confident that we've done the modeling, that it's going, that it is going to stop." Like, I don't... The, the anxiety is the following: not that these companies, not that these companies are evil, not 1%, 10%. The anxiety is not knowing what's going on, and w- w- what do we know works for kids? The, every parenting book seems to contradict the one before it, but the one consistent thing is that kids, that kids need guardrails, and this is effectively where we are. The CDC, the Center for Disease Control, is supposed to prevent an outbreak of measles, much less an existential health threat. What if, what would they say to Moderna? If Moderna, if a scientist at Moderna came out and said, "You know what? The, the COVID vaccine, I think there's a one in 10 chance that the COVID vaccine turns, turns offensive and turns into a pathogen that becomes infectious and kills 10% of the world's population." That's effectively what this guy said, and then when asked about it, the CEO of Moderna said the following: "Well, you know what? He might have a point."
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
He might have a point.
- KSKara Swisher
He might. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
What would we do?
- KSKara Swisher
Who knows?
- SGScott Galloway
Would the CDC, and then-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... would the CDC and the president say to the CEO of Moderna, "Shut the fuck up. Keep producing those vaccines. Get your stock up"?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
That's what he's saying right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, Trump is really doubling fucking down. He has to double down, right? I mean, as you noted, he's bet his whole enchilada on the tech and the AI boom.
- SGScott Galloway
So you're, you're, you're in a neighborhood, and there's a household where you think, "Oh, God. There's chaos over there. I don't know." And then you find out the parents are giving the kids meth and going, say, "Wreak more havoc." The insecurity around a lack of adult supervision, around not knowing what is actually going on, whether, whether they're, they're slowing down these things 'cause they're earnest about it and trying to be good citizens, or they're saying, "Tap the brakes," so all the open AI mod- all the, all the open weight models have to slam the brakes. They're raising awareness. Musk wants everyone to slow down so he can g-... Nobody knows what the fuck-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... is going on.
- KSKara Swisher
Here's what I do know. I don't trust any of them, not a one of them.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, there you go.
- KSKara Swisher
Not a one of them.
- SGScott Galloway
That's the, that's the known known.
- KSKara Swisher
Now, I, I was like, "Each of you have a point, but I think you're all lying." I literally sat there. I was... I, I looked at all their different interviews they did. They were at Dreamforce, and they all, uh, Wang did. Um, Wang's sort of over on the Trump side. Um, Mark is wandering somewhere in the middle. Musk, of course, he's behind, um, maybe trying, doing this shocking agreement with Altman and, uh, Modi. N- all of them, like, th- two things. I would make two... Three things I wanna make, actually. One is that they keep saying AI could be dangerous. They're dangerous. It's people that are dangerous. Like, guns don't kill people. People kill people, like that kinda thing. Um, the second thing is their shock, and shock about what's happening is such a lie because I have been at dinner parties 10 years ago where they were talking about the dangers. Now, these were speculation of where it was going 'cause now they have some proof, but they absolutely... And it reminds me of, you know, well, we split an atom and it, it caused boom. Like, we thought it would.
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] It caused boom.
- 42:45 – 48:24
Bernie & Bannon
- KSKara Swisher
these people. Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon delivered back-to-back speeches at the bipartisan summit in DC this week, the Pro-Human Assembly. The list of people that were there r- that really don't like each other was astonishing when I saw it. Both men called for regulation on AI and denounced billionaires at the helm. Sanders warned virtually all the decisions regarding the development of AI have been made by a handful of the richest people in the world, which we point out all the time. Bannon took a similar stance, arguing the power shouldn't be in the hands of these CEOs. Let's listen, of all things, to Steve Bannon.
- SPSpeaker
This is a hinge in history. We have to handle this right, correctly. To handle it correctly, number one, we can never trust what a oligarch says, because all they do, they're disingenuous and they lie. [audience applauding] This has to be the American people. You cannot be a supplicant, and we're not gonna be supplicants anymore. The American people are gonna drive this.
- KSKara Swisher
So did you ever think you'd be agreeing with Steve Bannon? This is something we say all the time.
- SGScott Galloway
All you know is if Steve Bannon and Bernie Sanders show up at a cocktail party, you're dying to know who's hosting that cocktail party, right? [laughs] That's, that's-- There's something, something interesting going on there. I generally think it's a bad sign when the far left and the far right disagree. They disagree on-
- KSKara Swisher
Agree
- SGScott Galloway
... isolationism, anti-Semitism, anti-vaccination.
- KSKara Swisher
You mean agree. When they agree, not disagree.
- SGScott Galloway
When they-- I'm sorry, when they agree.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Then you gotta watch out. But this is... Th- th- they're both-- Look, they're, at the end of it, they're both populous, and 71% of Americans think-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... AI means fewer jobs.
- KSKara Swisher
Especially young people.
- SGScott Galloway
And it's a rare bipartisan issue. Both sides of the aisle, um, you know, uh, both sides of the aisle agree or are concerned about this, and the real question isn't whether GPT-9 is smarter than a lawyer. The question is, who captures the upside and who gets the pink slip? What's interesting so far is that the articles I've read from The Economist and others is that AI so far has been a net job adder. Uh, but the, the people here do such a bad job of talking about there is real... I sat next to the guy who runs UCSF the other night for dinner, and he was talking about how AI can be used to reduce sepsis.
- KSKara Swisher
Sure. Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
How we think it's gonna-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, we talked about it
- SGScott Galloway
... help. There really is-- Hinton, who I know as the godfather of AI, he kinda summarized it perfectly, but it didn't make any of us really feel better. He's like, "You can imagine a future where AI is, makes the world a much better place, and you can also imagine [laughs] a future where AI makes it a worse place." And the fulcrum in the room, the traffic signal here, should be thoughtful regulation, and we don't have that right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's interesting to see what'll happen because it, the, the tech people and Trump think they can muscle this past all of the country, and it's really interesting to see. I don't think they can. I think the... When you talk to people, they are f- they are pissed. They're pissed, and they're scared, and they don't, and they don't trust these people. The, the, the real time-- By the way, Hinton's in the Musk documentary. He's excellent in it. Um, uh, the real time political, they, they just don't see we-- As I said, we hate them. Like, we hate them and what they're doing, and we don't think they should be in charge. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about your favorite topic, Kash Patel's bizarre hearing on the Hill this week. Support for this show comes from Vanta. AI adoption is everywhere you look and growing. At the same time, so are your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits, and vendors keep piling on, but if your team isn't getting any bigger, you can start to feel the strain. So then you turn to compliance tools that promise automation. But for a lot of those tools, you end up stuck doing all the work by hand anyway, chasing screenshots, validating controls, and playing catch up when audit season comes around again. Vanta works differently. Vanta's agentic trust platform is built to scale with you, not to slow you down. With over 1,400 automated tests across 400-plus integrations, Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year-round. It can cut your audit prep by 82%. Plus you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools like Claude or Cursor. Over 16,000 fast-growing companies like Ramp, Writer, and Harvey save time and resources while scaling fast with Vanta. You can join them today. Learn more at vanta.com/pivot. That's spelled V-A-N-T-A.com/pivot.
- SGScott Galloway
[gentle music] Support for the show comes from NPR. Trying to follow the political news every day can be a lot, especially with all the outrage and noise. Here's a cheat code that could help you out, the NPR Politics Podcast. They're a daily political podcast where you can catch up on the biggest political news of the moment, and you can do it in 15 minutes or less every weekday. Right now, NPR Politics has its eye on the midterms and the issues that actually affect your life, things like the high cost of housing, healthcare, ICE, and immigration, America's role in the world, and the growing debt. There's no doom scrolling needed. It's just an exact, calm summary for you to declutter the chaos. The NPR Politics team is full of experienced political journalists who talk like your smart friends. They offer clarity without judgment, so you can wrap up every episode with better understanding of how the balance of power might shift without stressing you out. I absolutely adore NPR. It is my go-to when I wanna bring my blood pressure down and just, you know, "Ma'am, just the facts, please." Uh, every media company has a certain level of spin. I find NPR has the least. Listen now to the NPR Politics Podcast in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're
- 48:24 – 55:22
Kash Patel on Bestiality
- KSKara Swisher
back, and I regret to inform you we have to talk about bestiality. Let's listen to a clip of John Kennedy, I've met him in person, he's hysterical, asking FBI Director Kash Patel about a new policy that does not immediately disqualify applicants who have engaged in bestiality.
- SPSpeaker
Why would you even get into bestiality?
- SPSpeaker
We, we are not into bestiality, but a lot of these individuals pr-
- SPSpeaker
I know you're not, but you changed, you, you, you changed the qual-
- SPSpeaker
But I'm trying to explain it. Hang on
- SPSpeaker
... you changed the qualifications and mentioned bestiality.
- SPSpeaker
It's a, I, I-
- SPSpeaker
If, if, if Joe, if Joe participated in bestiality-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... not as the animal, but as the human, don't you think he ought to be qualified, disqualified?
- SPSpeaker
If he voluntarily did it, sure, but if he was trafficked into it, then I think it's something-
- SPSpeaker
Okay, how do you involuntarily do it?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, man, Scott, this was, this, there were two moments on Capitol Hill this week, this and then Mitch McConnell being abused, uh, you know-
- SGScott Galloway
That's right
- KSKara Swisher
... voting yes and no. Like, seriously, I, I mean, it, I was like, "What are the Republicans doing to themselves, like doing this?" It was so strange. Um, what is going on at... And there's so many good memes, so many good memes about Kash Patel screwed the pooch. Uh, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
... Kristi Noem's dog, it, it breathes a sigh of relief at this. At least you didn't get fucked, you just got shot. Um, it, thoughts, like I ca- it, it's so fucked up, the both things, the both things really.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, uh, look, this, this sort of hits close to home 'cause I had a problem. Uh, I have struggled with addiction to bestiality-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
... with wolves, but I'm getting better, Kara. I'm down to a pack a day.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Anyway.
- KSKara Swisher
The way you just said that. That's a good one.
- SGScott Galloway
You know what? This is how fucking-
- KSKara Swisher
That is a really good joke. Anyway
- SGScott Galloway
... this is how fucking ri- this is just how fucking... I don't care, take the stupidest administration, we couldn't have imagined any dialogue-
- KSKara Swisher
No, this is the stupidest administration
- SGScott Galloway
... issue this stupid. This has, uh, who gives a sh- bestiality, who can be hi- that, that means nothing here. What's, what's significant here is that one, how fall, how far we have fallen, that the director of FBI legitimately has to defend this kind of stupid policy change, and what you referenced before, that a Republican senator is starting to sense weakness and isn't afraid to go after Trump's appointees. You're starting to see the worm turn. But this is just embarrassing. This is our allies with their, with their, you know, their hands, their, their head in their hands and [sighs]
- KSKara Swisher
The senators were trying to save him, those Republicans, and, and then they were like, "Okay, I've had enough of this."
- SGScott Galloway
I was, the other day, I was trying to figure out how many, I was trying to count how many sheep I had fucked-
- 55:22 – 1:06:28
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
prediction. Can I do a very short one?
- SGScott Galloway
Of course.
- KSKara Swisher
I do think, uh, this Paramount leaving California thing, I think they're gonna settle. I do. They have to settle. I don't know what they're doing here by being, like, so saber-rattling, but behind the scenes, I am absolutely certain they're chit-chatting away with Rob Bonta and the grand, 'cause they, they haven't been able to, to peel off... They told me they were gonna peel off AGs. They didn't do that. None of these op-eds have worked. The money is getting really ugly right now, uh, including Larry Ellison's own fortune. Um, they don't have a choice. And if they go, they'll probably go to Nashville, I guess. But it didn't really work when Disney tried to move a lot of stuff to Florida. It's very expensive, and lots of people don't wanna move. They need to settle this, like, yesterday. And, um, and if they go somewhere, I'm assuming, I've heard that Ellison, David Ellison's looking for houses in Nashville. But, um, but I, I'd assume that's where they're going. But, uh, we'll see. We'll see. 'Cause there's a lot of entertainment there, I guess. I don't know. Uh, but I, I can't imagine they're gonna do this. It's so s- it's so stupid on top of other stupid things. And all signs point to shitty, including the 60 Minutes decline, everything else. They really need to get this in their rearview mirror. Anyway, your thoughts or your prediction.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, well, first of all, I think you're absolutely right. It, it, this isn't moving customer service down to Orlando. These are really talented, unique people who live in LA for a reason. And right now, essentially, Hollywood has already left LA because the majority of the production now takes place outside of LA. It, it's a hollow, weird threat. Okay, so-
- KSKara Swisher
Also, the other thing is YouTube and Netflix are doubling down, and they will buy everything up, and then they'll laugh in your fucking face.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, fine. We'll take, [laughs] we'll take the best production and creative executives.
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct.
- SGScott Galloway
That would be a gift to them.
- KSKara Swisher
They are. You-- both of them, YouTube and Netflix, will take everything. They're so dumb and childish.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a hollow threat. So, uh, a couple things. Uh, one, you're going to see a country or a trading bloc ban frontier models.
- KSKara Swisher
Ooh.
- SGScott Galloway
There's so much animosity-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I love this. [sighs] You're so smart.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it's just all the moons are lining up. If, if you've had it with America, you're looking to press on their soft tissue, and there's all this insecurity that, oh, wait, ten percent chance we might have an extinction event. I know. Just for the time being, dear America, as you have levied all these ridiculous, sclerotic, inconsistent tariffs on us, we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna put a pause-
- KSKara Swisher
On you
- SGScott Galloway
... on frontier models out of the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And we're gonna make it illegal and stop. And if one of them really wants to go gangster, they're gonna do it for s- against several tech companies.
- KSKara Swisher
Which one? Which will... Is it Europe, presumably? Or who?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I don't know where it could come from. It might come from the Philippines. It might come from, it might come from Finland. That guy's pretty, pretty, you know, persnickety. Uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Sweden just put him in the leftist group too.
- SGScott Galloway
But one, one... Or the bloc.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
The bloc is the joint, might come together and say, "You know what? Just as Kathy Hogle put a moratorium on data centers, we're gonna put a moratorium-
- KSKara Swisher
Moratorium
- SGScott Galloway
... on frontier models-
- KSKara Swisher
I love that word
- SGScott Galloway
... out of the US."
- KSKara Swisher
Moratorium.
- SGScott Galloway
And, and, uh, you have never seen trillion-dollar-plus companies this, this fragile. Uh, the, the, these companies could lose... And then, and then Bill Gates and Satya Nadella and, uh, Sundar are gonna call these guys and go, and Trump, "What the actual fuck? We're now being banned because everybody thinks an eight-year-old is running these things, and you're talking about extinction events?" Anyways, that's coming down the pike. We're gonna see a nation-state or a bloc ban American frontier models. If we can coordinate with the British and the Russians to put, push back on fascism, we're gonna find out that people can actually coordinate to push back on economic warfare. [laughs] So that, that to me would be the smartest thing they could do right now. Because the reality is, AI is being used by some other companies, but it hasn't really picked up the same level of consumer adoption that media would have you believe in many of these countries.
Episode duration: 1:06:28
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