Pivot“Manufactured Division”: How Social Media Is Driving Anger and Polarization | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 26,752 words- 0:00 – 9:47
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
I never used to think about it before, but now I think literally anything I write down somewhere, the government might have.
- KSKara Swisher
You also shove everything into ChatGPT, serious. I don't do it at all, but-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I love it. Yeah, I'm in-
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
... I'm definitely in a-
- KSKara Swisher
You're very promiscuous-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of-
- KSKara Swisher
... with your information.
- SGScott Galloway
I am. Gotta be promiscuous somewhere.
- KSKara Swisher
(instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
How you doing today, Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm good. I got a little bit of the, the, uh, the X-bar hangover. Did a xanny last night, 4:00 AM, couldn't sleep.
- KSKara Swisher
What? Wh-
- SGScott Galloway
Are you having trouble sleeping when you're al- I mean, I-
- KSKara Swisher
I, I am. I, uh, I wake up at 4:18 every night.
- SGScott Galloway
(sighs) I'm turning into one of those people that's just like a ghost walking around the house.
- KSKara Swisher
No, I don't walk.
- SGScott Galloway
I used to be such a good sleeper.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, you're supposed to do that. You're supposed to get up and walk around, just so you know. Not, not try to go to sleep lying there.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Uh, what did I watch? I've been watching... Uh, uh, you know what? Uh. I'll watch anything with my favorite actor, Hitler.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
I just type in "World War II"-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
... and I watch the Battle of the Bulge in color. Um, I'm obsessed with World War II.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, a lot of-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm officially-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... 100 years old.
- KSKara Swisher
Not Rome? I, usually men are Rome, but Rome or Hitler usually seems to be the things-
- 9:47 – 26:43
Trump’s Immigration Crackdown
- KSKara Swisher
first, President Trump's immigration crackdown is escalating. Actually, this is quite troubling. Over the weekend, he authorized the deployment of 300 Illinois National Guard troops to Chicago. J- uh, Governor J. B. Pritzker is warning that federal agents and raids are turning the city into a war zone. He's creating problems. Trump also keeps trying to send National Guard troops into Portland. He first attempted to send Oregon national troops in and was blocked by a federal judge, whom he appointed. He then tried to deploy troops from California and was blocked by the same judge, who was really pissed off. So he keeps trying to find National Guard, but this judge is gonna block it completely. And National, uh, uh, Texas National Guard troops are also in the mix for Oregon and Illinois with Governor Abbott's blessing. By the way, he is saying some things that are incredibly inflammatory, saying maybe Lorton should be gone. Um, all this, uh... none of your fucking business, Greg Abbott. Like, s- sit down. I shouldn't say that. But all this, uh, as protests intensify in Chicago and Portland over, uh, these ICE raids. Um, I don't know what you thought, um, what you've seen, but it seems like a really, truly demented es- escalation. And Homeland Secretary Kristi Noem is also saying ICE agents will be all over the Super Bowl, where Bad Bunny is the halftime headliner. Um, I don't, I don't know who, as y- who can afford, as you noted, uh, going to the Super Bowl, but it's very expensive, for people to know. So, any thoughts on all this? 'Cause it's truly troubling what's happening here. It's all led by Stephen Miller, obviously.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, there's two things here. Uh, uh, the first is, I, I just think this whole thing is such manufactured division. And that is, if you think about socialism is supposed to be... is about equality, right? That we should have, everyone should have... the economy, the spoils should be... you know, William Gibson said, "The future's here. It's just not evenly distributed." You could say the same thing about capitalism if it's left unchecked. The prosperity happens, it's just not evenly distributed. Socialism i- is a means of correcting that by the government owning the means of production. By the way, this is hands down economically the most socialist government America has ever had.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Cor- correct. Nearly Communist.
- SGScott Galloway
Liberalism?
- KSKara Swisher
I'm sorry.
- SGScott Galloway
Liberalism is the idea that everyone should be free to pursue liberty, even if it means te- no search- you know, very strict private property and search and seizure laws where you may know that that house, there's crime in it, but if you don't have-... a warrant, a search warrant approved by a judge, you're not allowed to go in. The, the, we believe in gun rights as a form of liberalism to a certain extent, because we believe it's worth a certain amount. And I, I don't want to protect gun rights, but the whole idea of a liberal democracy is the pursuit of liberty. Fascism, the juice of fascism is trying to convince people that the enemy is within, attacking, attacking and threatening the chosen way of life. And that's what this is. This is fascism. On any metric, the idea that crime is out of control, if, if that were true, then it was way more out of control several years ago. And also, if you were really serious about reducing crime, you wouldn't be sending in federal troops who don't know how to conduct crime investigations, don't know how to collect evidence, don't know how to arrest people. They're just to, they are to intimidate people. I believe, I, I am a believer that if you're gonna spend now over a trillion dollars on the military, you should be proactive around the use of the military. I would rather see these guys and gals in Ukraine supporting long-range missile, (laughs) m- m- missile launches to destroy, uh, oil infrastructure. I would rather see them as a peacekeeping force in Gaza. Th- they are ineffective, and all they do is tear at the fabric of society and make us hate each other. And here's the bottom line, we're not that divided.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
What we have is an administration-
- KSKara Swisher
Who's creating-
- SGScott Galloway
... and God-like technology dividing us.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, creating tension. I mean, it was interesting 'cause there's still a few troops around DC, and I went by one last night, and, and I, I was trying to be nice, and I was like, "You guys should go home." Like, I was very nice about it, and they're like, "Don't you think we want to go home? This is ridiculous."
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, they're not-
- KSKara Swisher
They were like-
- SGScott Galloway
They're under orders.
- KSKara Swisher
They were, like, not wanting to be there either. It's so... They were standing on the corner, and then... Do you see the picture from Portland? They were at Voodoo Doughnuts. There were all these, these troops at Voodoo Doughnuts, which are, (laughs) like are delicious doughnuts, may I add. I mean, what do you think about the, the, the, the, though everything is performative, whether it's Kristi Noem or Stephen Miller, who I think is a committed fascist, actually. The others, I think, are very performative, uh, looking at, you know, Pete Hegseth wants to run. I bet Kristi Noem wants to be president. Um, b- but it's really, it creates... If you create enough problem with these people there, you will have a clash, which is, I think, what they want.
- SGScott Galloway
That's what they're looking for.
- KSKara Swisher
That's what they're looking for, a fight. Now, one of the things that's been, and this is in our wheelhouse, big tech is getting involved in all this. Apple and Google have pulled several apps that let users flag sightings of ICE agents, including a widely used app called Ice Block. Uh, the move comes after Attorney General Pam Bondi pressed Apple to remove Ice Block, claiming it puts federal officers at risk for doing their jobs. The app's creator slammed the decision, accusing Apple of bending to what he called an authoritarian regime. Meanwhile, ICE is hiring contractors to scan Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube to find leads for enforcement raids, and also monitor people's social feeds. Again, communist. This is what authoritarians do. What do you think of... And we have given so much of our information over to these companies, and they don't deserve the trust we have given them in lots of ways. I, I, I, I'm of mi- mixed mind on the Ice Block, and at the same time, I'm kind of like, well, this is what happens when you do things like this. Like, people get creative. There's one in San Francisco that's showing where parking meter people are, which the, the city got mad about, so you could move your car in time. I mean, it, it seems like when you do one thing and people take an action against the other, guess what's gonna happen? Uh, what do you think about the tech companies?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I'm on the tech company side of this. If you get a letter from the attorney general telling you to take an app down, I, I just think you have to comply with the law. I don't, I don't, I don't fault them for doing that. What, what I think this shows, though, is that we need more diversity of platforms. I also... I do like the idea of encryption, but at the same time, I like the government's ability... We're better at spying than anyone else in the world, and America and the Israelis have basically developed technology where they can essentially hack almost any phone. I, quite frankly, like that 'cause I do think of us, at the end of the day, as the good guys. At the same time, you said something that's really stuck with me, and that is people should have the right to have secrets. I really like that. I like the idea. I never used to think about it before, but now I think literally anything I write down somewhere, the government might have.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Or that-
- KSKara Swisher
You also shove everything into ChatGPT, serious. I don't do it at all, but...
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I lo- yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm in- I'm definitely in a... Yeah, I'm, I'm pa-
- KSKara Swisher
You're very promiscuous-
- SGScott Galloway
I am.
- KSKara Swisher
... with the information.
- SGScott Galloway
Got to be promiscuous somewhere. Anyways, so, but I find that fascinating. I just, I'm curious how it comes back with stuff. But, so I don't, I don't think you can fault tech for taking down these platforms. I, the, the, the images of American cities and ICE agents in masks-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, they're terrible.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it, I think that will go down as a pretty... I mean, no- not on the same level as the internment of Japanese families, but kind of the same flavor.
- 26:43 – 29:13
OpenAI Changes Copyright Stance
- KSKara Swisher
OpenAI has backtracked and will give copyright holders more control over how their characters are used on Sora, its new AI video generation app. Uh, as a reminder, leading up to the launch, the company has said copyright holders would have to opt out of having material appear in videos. Scott made excellent points last week. CEO Sam Altman said the company would have to, quote, "Somehow make money from the app to offset costs." Oh, well, don't make it if you can't make money, Sam. And would try to share some of the revenue with rights holders who opt in. Well, try to share? Thanks. Uh, Sora is a top free app in Apple's App Store at the time of the taping. It's an interesting app. Um, uh, by the way, OpenAI and chip designer, uh, AMD have announced a multi-billion dollar partnership, uh, to collaborate on AI data centers. This is Lisa Su. I just recently interviewed her actually. Um, but the fact of getting away with anything they want is just... They still think that. Um, and by the way, OpenAI's Dev Day will be happening after we tape today. We'll talk about that more on Friday. But thoughts on this turnabout? I mean, they must have heard holy hell from everybody. That's my assumption.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I've hired hackers and, and AI engineers to reverse engineer everything that OpenAI spent money on. I'm calling it ClosedAI 'cause they have not opted out.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
They have not opted out.
- KSKara Swisher
ClosedAI.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, what?
- KSKara Swisher
I like that.
- SGScott Galloway
They haven't... Uh, and by the way, I've disassembled my iPhone. I'm, I'm... I found, uh, Foxconn in China and I found assemblers because Tim Cook has not opted out.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He hasn't opted out. I can-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, th- that is just so fucking ridiculous.
- KSKara Swisher
Fucking shoplifters.
- SGScott Galloway
And the notion that... I mean, if they were really... Uh, Adobe did this the right way. Adobe basically started a generative AI, a design AI, whatever they're called, and said, "And everything on here, we've had... we've developed agreements with the initial IP creators. And it's probably not as complete as the Wild West, but you know , everything here, the p- you know, the people have, have agreed to license it to us." And this is... this is a moment in time where absolutely they should hit back hard. But unfortunately, the smart economic, um, decision is just to, just to steal from people. But I think this is absolutely a moment to push back. The, the other thing I got additional hate from... This... I've been getting a lot of hate this week. Or I'm very sensitive. I don't know. Maybe it's the Xanax speaking. Not sure. Anyways, the... I put out a thing showing a graph.
- 29:13 – 39:26
Hollywood Struggles
- SGScott Galloway
LA is, LA is basically turning into the next Detroit with better weather.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is-
- KSKara Swisher
I sent you that story, yeah, in the Times.
- SGScott Galloway
What the Japanese did to Detroit, uh, essentially, uh, uh, Netflix and now AI-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, and the strike-
- SGScott Galloway
... and Allison.
- KSKara Swisher
... has... Which you had been very vocal about the strike, FYI, saying, "This is gonna cause untold damage." So it was the strike, Netflix, and AI. But go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I, I won't even go there.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) .
- SGScott Galloway
L- l- literally the, the, the-
- KSKara Swisher
They hate you.
- SGScott Galloway
... the stupidest people in corporate America ever elected to a position as the WGA-
- KSKara Swisher
They don't like you.
- SGScott Galloway
... who decided, "I know, let's transfer wealth from actors and workers to Netflix and make things worse for us and keep people out of work for five moneth- m- five months such that they can come back with, with no negotiating leverage." Anyways, i- if you've seen the numbers, LA has had a vibrant creative middle class driven by Hollywood. And it's not-People think it's Bryan Cranston or Tom Cruise.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
It's not. It's caterers, it's makeup artists, it's lighting-
- KSKara Swisher
Props.
- SGScott Galloway
... it's gaffers-
- KSKara Swisher
Noise people.
- SGScott Galloway
... it's sound people.
- KSKara Swisher
Sound people. Noise.
- SGScott Galloway
People making 80 to 250 grand a year as animators, as costume designers.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And it's all being cleaned out.
- KSKara Swisher
Cleaned out.
- SGScott Galloway
First by Netflix, who moved the majority of their production overseas or to the places with the biggest tax credits. That's economic arbitrage based on geography.
- KSKara Swisher
That would be Atlanta, New Jersey are doing-
- SGScott Galloway
Vancouver-
- KSKara Swisher
Vancouver.
- 39:26 – 46:25
The Latest with Elon
- KSKara Swisher
Let's talk about what Elon has been up to lately. First off, Netflix stock is down 4% in the last five days, at the time of this taping, after Elon urged followers to cancel subscriptions over an animated show that features a trans character. The show, Dead End: Paranormal Park, was canceled in 2023 after two seasons. Um, you know, uh, again, it was also over the, over the, over the threat by Trump to, uh, tax, um, to tariff, uh, movies. Um, but you know, he's carrying on his little boycotts all over the place. Secondly, uh, meanwhile, uh, newly unveiled testimony revealed that SpaceX took money from Chinese investors despite having close ties to the US military. A major SpaceX investor said in a deposition that some of the Chinese investors are listed as shareholders. In March, ProPublica reported that SpaceX allows Chinese investors to buy a stake in the company as long as the funds are routed through offshore hubs. Um, they also, one of the things that I wanna add, now, these are three different things, uh, SpaceX acquisition of telecom EchoStar's spectrum rights. A recent Washington Post opinion piece highlights how the deal could change the relationship between state and citizen, citizens. The buy allows for direct satellite to smartphone connectivity without terrestrial in- infrastructure. With the acquisition, SpaceX now controls enough spectrum to supply commercial, uh, mobile services globally. Uh, they're very good at that, as you have pointed out. So start with the first one, the trans thing. I just think he's a terrible person, and he should be, uh, call and apologize to his daughter. That's, he's just a terrible person and a terrible parent, and he's obsessed with trans issues in a way that's, uh, it makes JK Rowling look reasonable. Uh, uh, the s- uh, the second one, of course he's taking money from Chinese investors, 'cause, well ... And the last one, I think, is a really important story. But go ahead. You go first.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I just, uh, I don't remember the last one, but taking money from ch- You know how I feel about this. I think he, I, I think that ... I, I opt for the material and psychological wellbeing of Americans above almost everything else. And I like taking capital from almost (laughs) anybody. And as long as you put in place that they can't control stuff, uh, I think the, uh, Americans don't realize the connection between their prosperity and the fact that our cost of cap- You can't get a mortgage in Argentina. You, you just, there's no such thing as a mortgage market-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... in Argentina.
- KSKara Swisher
I get it.
- SGScott Galloway
You can't buy a ho- So how many people can buy a house when you can't borrow to bor- to buy a house? 'Cause there's no capital flowing into Argentina. So I'm kind of like cash their check, put in safeguards so that they can't control the media. But I like the fact that we have huge capital inflows. And I find that a lot of times people on the left are not focused enough on our economic wellbeing and want to virtue signal. Having said that, let's go to the, the ... One, one of the greatest exports unfortunately now, not the greatest, the biggest exports of the United States is American citizens, like Elon Musk, exporting political division.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, in London, right? In England.
- SGScott Galloway
There was a rally here in the UK, and, and Elon Musk shows up, "I want Britain to be great again." It's like, Jesus Christ-
- KSKara Swisher
Get the fuck out.
- SGScott Galloway
... we're, we're exporting this bullshit?
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
I think the commercial opportunity ... The Chevrolet Equinox EV is the third best selling ... If I were Chevrolet, I would be making light of this and say, "Buy any Chevrolet EV, free lifetime subscription to Netflix."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I would just, I, I would, uh-... I, I like targeted economic strikes.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm a fan of it. It-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... now over political issues. I, I just think that's un-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, that's what he says he's doing, I assume, right? Correct? That-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, uh, more power, you know, fine. I don't believe w- I don't believe in why he's doing it, but I think that Chevrolet and Netflix should strike back.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I think Ted Sarandos should say, "We're offering free Netflix for anyone who buys these, the other seven best-selling EVs." He's smarter than that. He's not going to weigh into this. He's just going to ignore it, because I'll tell you one thing, uh, people may love their Tesla. They love their Netflix more.
- KSKara Swisher
They do.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I mean, it's like y-
- KSKara Swisher
I do love my Netflix.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, it's fantastic.
- KSKara Swisher
I do love my Netflix.
- SGScott Galloway
It's fantastic. Unfortunately, though, I've been subject to Wednesday. God-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... that's a lot. A lot of talent in that.
- 46:25 – 51:26
Instagram Safety Features “Ineffective”
- KSKara Swisher
Instagram safety measures for kids, uh, are woefully inadequate according to a new report from former Meta whistleblower along with nonprofit groups. The report evaluated 47 of Meta's 53 safety features for teens and found a majority were no longer available or i- or in effect, or they were ineffective. Meta has called the report misleading and dangerously speculative. Um, you know, I'm going to hear from them after we talk about this, but, um, uh, you know, are they ... This is ... I think it goes to the heart of what Scott and I talk about, is they aren't going to make things safe for kids. It's almost impossible to make them safe for kids, but from a cost perspective, they cannot. They c- There's so many holes in all these things, um, that it's ... I, I think it's an impossible thing, and as Scott and I have talked about, they should not be serving young people. They have no responsibility. They've shown themselves not to have responsibility. And even when they're trying, it's hard to do. So I, I just ... It creates a really bad situation for young people on these social media networks, which are pound-for-pound negative, uh, for our kids. Th- They're not very positive for us either. Um, in some cases, they are, um, to be fair. Uh, your thoughts, um, about their ability to make things safe for young people?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, uh, uh, to me the, this is pretty simple. No one under the age of 16 should be allowed on a social media platform, and if it, we find out that you're age gating isn't ... I, I can be talking about our pivot tour, and I get served an ad for our pivot tour, but they claim they can't (laughs) they can't age gate. No one under the age of 16 on a social media platform, no one under the age of 18 can engage in a synthetic relationship, full stop. Let's not ... No more safety protocols, no more technology, no more, no more parental controls. These things are n- We age gate alcohol, pornography, the military, motorcycles, R-rated content. Uh, eh, the damage these things have done, and the unfortunate thing is that you say, "Well," they come in with the argument around parenting. "Well, this is about good parenting. You don't want your kids on screens, don't let them on it." Here's the problem. If you take your kid off of Snap and every other kid is still on Snap, that k- kid actually ends up more depressed because he's isolated. Unless this is collective action from the government or from schools, it's not going to work.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And there's just evidence everywhere showing-
- KSKara Swisher
Everywhere.
- SGScott Galloway
... that when social went on mobile, things got worse for teens.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
So this is an easy one.... if, if we outlaw it, if we made it such that, you know, kids... I mean, the reality is, kids smoking-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... if you quit smoking by the time you're 30-
- KSKara Swisher
You're okay.
- SGScott Galloway
... your rates of cancer are the same as someone who never smoked.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But the problem is, you can get addicted. A 15-year-old smoking cigarettes, that is less dangerous than a 15-year-old, in my view, on Instagram.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And so, all right, look what we did to cigarettes. Why is it taking us so long with social? And typically, I think it's about to happen, and it is happening, I think largely because of Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation. But generally speaking, society takes 20 years. It takes, it took us 20 years with cigarettes, it took us 20 years with opiates, and it feels like-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
... the iPhone has taken us about 20 years.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
But I think it's happening. But all this nonsense around parental controls and parenting, no, no, no. Easy. Under the age of 16, no social media. Under the age of 18, no synthetic relationships.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they're, they're always gonna get caught out on these things. It's, and parental controls, I am really good at it, and they're not good. And let me say, there was a great piece actually on CBS this morning on, uh, on, on schools without phones. They are happier. They are happier. Everyone's happier without them. Actually, one of my sons, I'm not gonna say which one, wrote me and, and was being a little crazy on the phone about a t- some topics. And I, and he was, and he wrote me a little bit later. He texted me, he goes, "You know, I'm on this phone too much. It's making me crazy." Like, and I was like, "Yes. Thank you." Like, he, he self-diagnosed himself, and he's older. Um, but he was, uh, it got him all going, right? It got him all like, "Ugh," like that kind of thing. And so you can't help but doom scroll and be angry, and it happens to all of us, including me. I actually have a... Interestingly enough, my threads is so full of, like, cooking and ASMR that I hardly ever see news on it, which is interesting. Um, which I, which I like, right? It's actually very calming, and I don't ever see angry stuff. But, uh, uh, Scott and I are pretty clear on this. And by the way, Jonathan Haidt's book is, uh, it, it, I think is critically important to this. But your book, we'll be talking about a lot on the tour, so we'll be talking about these topics. Uh, Notes, Notes on Being a Man, is that correct? Notes on Being a Man.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, thanks for that. Yeah, Notes on Being a Man.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, we'll be talk- it's during Scott's, uh, uh, debut week, and we hope to get it to the number one on the New York Times bestseller list, uh, with our tour and everything else. But-
- SGScott Galloway
Kira, Kira, I don't, I don't give in to the commercial metrics of the-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... modern day. I-
- KSKara Swisher
I still want it. It's my personal goal.
- SGScott Galloway
I just hope that, I just hope that-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... people find some reward in it.
- 51:26 – 1:05:16
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I just wanted to try and wrap a win and fail into discussing a little bit about, um, Trump's, quote-unquote, "compact" that offers preferential treatment to compliant colleges. First off, that's a bit of a misnomer. What they're threatening to do is take away federal funding from universities that don't sort of sign up for certain, um, sign up to certain protocols. And I'll go through each of them just sort of quickly and provide a viewpoint. The first is I think I depart a little bit from some of the, some of the, uh, responses from the last, and that is, I do think, generally speaking, that if the federal government is gonna give you billions of dollars, they should have input. However, that input needs to be discussed in Congress and passed as laws that apply to all colleges, 'cause at a minimum, in three years and two months, a lot of this shit just might be reversed. So this is just darting back and forth, trying to figure out what to do. Also, there's a lot of evidence showing that the funding that these universities get for research has been arguably the best investment in the history of the planet around pharmaceuticals and technology. But anyways, having said that, uh, some of the things they wanna do, they want to make, uh, admissions basically, um, gender, ethnicity, race, and political view blind. And I don't have a problem with that because basically s- the Supreme Court has already said that's, that's what's, that's what it has to be. Um, I do believe in affirmative action, but I believe it should be based on income, not based on any observable, um, characteristic or, uh, sexual orientation. Two, marketplace of ideas and civil discourse. They're forcing them to commit to fostering a vibrant marketplace of ideas on campus requiring an intellectually open campus environment with a broad spectrum of ideological viewpoints present and no single ideology dominant both along political and other relevant lines. I want to acknowledge that universities have done a really poor job of fomenting and supporting ideological diversity. Having said that, I don't see how you legislate. Any attempt to legislate it really is thought control. And just as the cops, police forces, and the military probably lean conservative, universities are always gonna lean progressive. Uh, that's just the way it is. Now, should 90-plus percent of your faculty be Democrats? That probably says you need to broaden the spectrum a little bit. I've also seen some bullying on campus where anything outside a certain narrative is really frowned upon. But I don't see how you implement this sort of thought control. Non-discrimination in hiring. Institutions will not be allowed to consider factors such as sex, ethnicity, race, national origin, disability, or religion. I'm, I'm, quite frankly, I'm comfortable with that. I think that, that universities, what I've seen in terms of promotions and faculty is that it is not, it is not str- it, it's mostly merit, but a lot of times, it's not merit. And but again, there's a better solution here, and the solution, quite frankly, would be getting rid of tenure, 'cause the biggest problem is we don't have enough room for young faculty to come up through the ranks because old, inefficient faculty-... uh, will not leave. Student learning, universities must, must commit to combating grade inflation. I don't even know what that means. Student equality, institutions must commit to defining and otherwise interpreting male, female, women, and man. You know, people ask me all the time if I'm Jewish and I s- because they say, "You're an atheist?" And I say, "I'm Jewish." And they go, "Were you bar mitzvahed?" "No." And they say, "Well, are you really Jewish?" And I'm like, "Well, I get to present as whatever the fuck I want." In my view is anyone... If you want to present, i- i- i- people should be able to just present as they want. And so I don't, I don't understand why... what the big deal is around not letting people... I've always said, with respect to pronouns, I do think it's a little bit stupid, but if you want me to call you they, I have no problem with that. That's... It's not a big give. I'll be just fine. You're not in- infringing on my rights. And the, the big one, the one that bothers me the most, is that foreign entanglements, one of the conditions is that, uh, the compact requires that no more than 15% of the university's undergraduate student population basically should be foreigners. Okay, that actually won't have that much effect at the undergraduate level because most universities are not above 15%. It will have a huge impact at the graduate schools where we get a lot. And this is so contrary to everything they're trying to do because w- the ultimate luxury item in the world is not a Rolex watch, it's not a Ferrari, it's sending your kids to an elite university where you will pay, no joke, between housing and tuition, a half a million dollars into the American economy to send your kid to a foreign university, an American university, where he or she will love America and go back and create connective tissue between us and foreign nations. And at 90 points plus of gross margin.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
This is the ultimate-
- KSKara Swisher
Great success.
- SGScott Galloway
... high-margin export. And our ability, just as I was saying I love the idea of foreign capital coming into the US, I love the idea of human capital coming into the US. A bet... And then the final one is they've said they can't raise their prices for five years. I hate price controls from Mom Dahmi. I hate price controls from Trump. There, i- i- a lot of this, in my opinion, gets at the right idea, but as, as always, it is the wrong execution-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... with a Secretary of Education who ran a fucking wrestling league.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If you want-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, she's got some spots.
- SGScott Galloway
... to bring prices down, you break the cartel. For example, early decision should not be allowed because if someone goes ED in hopes of getting a higher chance of being admitted, once they're admitted, they have no ability to shop around and shop for prices. Universities should not be raising their tuitions in lockstep. Universities should not be sharing information on financial aid because all they're doing is transferring leverage from the consumer, the parents and the kids, such that they can't shop around and get the best price. If you are not growing your freshman class faster than in population growth, you lose your tax-free status because you're no longer a public servant. You're a hedge fund with a class. There are easier ways, better ways, more competitive ways-
- KSKara Swisher
To do this.
- SGScott Galloway
... to get it bringing the prices down than price caps. We want as many as full freight-paying foreign students as possible. This is the be- one of the highest margin exports we have. And the idea of thought control? I just-
- KSKara Swisher
Thought control.
- SGScott Galloway
It just goes to weird places. And by the way, if this isn't done through Congress, guess what?
- KSKara Swisher
It's gonna fail.
- SGScott Galloway
President Moore, President Newsom, President Beshear, they're just gonna dial all this shit back.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, exact- It's useless. It's useless. And it's such... This is their shot, I think. All right. Do you have a- oh, was that the win or fail? We have to get moving, so.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Your turn.
- KSKara Swisher
What is, what is your... Is that your win and fail?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I just... I wrapped them. I wrapped them all into one.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, all right, okay.
- SGScott Galloway
I apologize.
- KSKara Swisher
I have, I have, uh, two. Obviously, speaking of thought control, uh, I think my fail is watching, um, uh, watching what OpenAI did here with this back and forth on copyright.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm sorry, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
What a mess, what a ridiculous thievery. I'm sorry, I accused Facebook of it, I've accused, uh, Google of it, same thing. This is just ridiculous. You respect copyright, you do not try to build a business off of other people's things and then act like it's no big deal. It is a big deal. You're stealing other people's things, and the things that are most attractive on your site are copyrighted material that you didn't make. If you want to make new things, good for you, that's great. But otherwise, you're thieves. You're re- As Walt Mossberg says, again and again, they are rapacious information thieves. You don't own this, get your dirty mitts off of it or pay the people who made it in the first place. You're killing people's jobs. You're also not going to take their seed corn at the same time. Um, and I hope they... I hope there's all kinds of lawsuits, um, to do so. And unfortunately, people have to sue, and that puts them at... on their back feet, especially when their industries are dying. Um, for my win, obviously Taylor Swift. Uh, I w- I would recommend watching the Fate of Ophelia official music video. It's fantastic. It's a really great album. I know that a lot of white guys are like, "Okay, it's really great, but..." Like, they, all the reviews are like, "Oh, the guys."
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, you and your identity politics.
- KSKara Swisher
No, I think it's ridiculous.
- SGScott Galloway
All the white guys.
Episode duration: 1:05:16
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