South Park, The Smithsonian, and Trump's Culture War | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 21:04

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      I don't think the Trump Administration thinks this is funny 'cause they have no sense of humor, right? Especially the micropenis part, which is what everybody thinks of Donald Trump. He has a micropenis.

   2. WMWesley Morris0:08

      Well, I mean, Kara, I can see the tie. (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher0:17

      (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and August rolls on. Welcome back to-

   4. WMWesley Morris0:26

      (instrumental music)

   5. KSKara Swisher0:27

      ... Got Re-August.

   6. WMWesley Morris0:32

      (laughs)

   7. KSKara Swisher0:34

      You like that? You like our sting? Scott is, uh, before I introduce you, yes, Scott is still away, and I know he misses me terribly. He's been posting a lot pretending he's still on the show, but pretty much he's gone, and, uh, he's sitting on the beach wishing 'cause there's so much news. But in his place, once again, I have yet another amazing co-host. He's a critic at large for the New York Times and two-time Pulitzer Prize winner, which Scott will never win, and the host of the Times' brand new podcast, Cannonball. It's Wesley Morris.

   8. WMWesley Morris1:03

      I, I can't believe, uh, this is happening to Scott again. (laughs)

   9. KSKara Swisher1:08

      I mean-

   10. WMWesley Morris1:09

       (laughs)

   11. KSKara Swisher1:09

       ... each week at, eh, day after day, it's another fantastic person who is so more well-qualified to be my partner than other people. So, I'm thrilled that you are here. Uh, let me just explain what your podcast is all about. Now, you had a very popular podcast. Obviously, the New York Times is blowing up the whole podcast division with videos and this and that. So, talk about what, where the name Cannonball came from, and talk a little bit about your podcasting history 'cause it's been terrific actually.

   12. WMWesley Morris1:34

       Uh, thank you. Um, well, I, you know, Jay Wortham and I had this show called Still Processing. Um, it was, you know, one of the happiest things I've ever been involved with. Uh, and now I'm doing this other culture show, and I mean, mostly it's, it's me sort of thinking through, you know, art, TV shows, movies, books, sports. I mean, anything that I'm kinda curious about and trying to make these connections between y- uh, one thing to another thing. Usually, uh, you know, so far it's been me talking to other people about, like-

   13. KSKara Swisher2:16

       Right.

   14. WMWesley Morris2:16

       ... what's coming up for them w- w- as I'm trying to work out my stuff with the other person. Um, and the name, you know, I, I wanted to call this show some other things-

   15. KSKara Swisher2:27

       Tell me.

   16. WMWesley Morris2:27

       ... and-

   17. KSKara Swisher2:27

       Tell me the name you wanted. I know how the New York Times is about names. I shoved mine through so hard, but it was-

   18. WMWesley Morris2:33

       Did you have to fight to get Sway called Sway?

   19. KSKara Swisher2:36

       Oh, yeah. But-

   20. WMWesley Morris2:37

       Really?

   21. KSKara Swisher2:37

       ... you know what? I didn't care. I refused to do it without the name. But what was the name you wanted? Tell me the name you wanted.

   22. WMWesley Morris2:42

       I wanted to call it Parlando.

   23. KSKara Swisher2:44

       Prolando?

   24. WMWesley Morris2:45

       Parlando.

   25. KSKara Swisher2:47

       Parlan- I love that. Why didn't you?

   26. WMWesley Morris2:48

       Which, you know, for our musicologist friends, it, you know-

   27. KSKara Swisher2:52

       Right. Explain that, please.

   28. WMWesley Morris2:53

       ... it is... (laughs) It's essentially, um, it's an opera term, and it essentially means to sing in a manner that is recognizable as speech essentially. But there's also in, there's a great tradition of parlando in pop music. We just don't really call it that. But, you know, some of your favorite singers are parl- I don't know, Kara. I don't wanna imp- I don't wanna, like, I don't wanna accuse you of being a Leonard Cohen fan.

   29. KSKara Swisher3:16

       They talk. Oh, yeah. No, no, they talk.

   30. WMWesley Morris3:18

       (laughs)
2. 21:04 – 30:23

   Trump’s Attack on the Smithsonian

   1. KSKara Swisher21:04

   2. WMWesley Morris21:04

      That's fair.

   3. KSKara Swisher21:04

      Um, President Trump is accusing Smithsonian of focusing too much on, quote, "How bad slavery was and not enough on the brightness of America," Trump said in a post on Truth Social. He's directed his attorneys to go through the museums and start the same process done with universities across the country. He also noted the country cannot be woke because woke is broke. The comments come a week after the White House announced a sweeping review of the Smithsonian. Museums are given 120 days to change content the Trump Administration finds problematic in tone, historical framing, and alignment with American ideals. I mean, I- I ... Please just go on. (laughs) Please just pontificate-

   4. WMWesley Morris21:39

      Well-

   5. KSKara Swisher21:39

      ... on, on what is happening here. How bad slavery was.

   6. WMWesley Morris21:43

      Here, here, can I start here?

   7. KSKara Swisher21:46

      It's so bad, like, what is-

   8. WMWesley Morris21:46

      Can I start here? Can I start here?

   9. KSKara Swisher21:48

      Yeah. You may start wherever you want.

   10. WMWesley Morris21:49

       I wanna take you back to February 24th, no, sorry, February 21st, 2017.

   11. KSKara Swisher21:55

       Okay.

   12. WMWesley Morris21:55

       This is, like, a month after the inauguration.

   13. KSKara Swisher21:58

       Yeah.

   14. WMWesley Morris21:59

       And, I mean, 'cause this is what I've been thinking about. This man, a month after the inauguration, gets a tour of the relatively still new Smithsonian Museum of African American History and Culture, which, which we, which we at my house call the Blacksonian.

   15. KSKara Swisher22:18

       (laughs)

   16. WMWesley Morris22:18

       Um, the president-

   17. KSKara Swisher22:21

       (laughs) I like that name.

   18. WMWesley Morris22:22

       ... gets a tour-

   19. KSKara Swisher22:24

       Yeah.

   20. WMWesley Morris22:24

       ... of this museum from Lonnie Bunch-

   21. KSKara Swisher22:26

       Mm-hmm.

   22. WMWesley Morris22:26

       ... the man who is now in charge of the whole Smithsonian system.

   23. KSKara Swisher22:29

       He is.

   24. WMWesley Morris22:29

       And is under fire to (laughs) gladden it up.

   25. KSKara Swisher22:34

       Right.

   26. WMWesley Morris22:34

       Um, he, President Trump gives this speech. I, I have the entire speech. I'm not gonna read all of it.

   27. KSKara Swisher22:40

       Okay, please don't.

   28. WMWesley Morris22:41

       But Kara, I'm gonna (laughs) I'm gonna just, like, read some of it because-

   29. KSKara Swisher22:45

       Okay. Please do.

   30. WMWesley Morris22:45

       I don't recog- This person, this person is a different person.
3. 30:23 – 38:21

   Trump’s Kennedy Center Honorees

   1. KSKara Swisher30:23

      talk a little bit about the Kennedy Center Honors 'cause it goes there too, speaking of cultural impacts. It, it, it includes KISS, Sylvester Stallone, and Gloria Gaynor. Um, the, the country music star they picked-

   2. WMWesley Morris30:34

      George Strait.

   3. KSKara Swisher30:35

      Good coun- Good country music star. I'm sorry. I mean, I know that's not-

   4. WMWesley Morris30:37

      No, I mean, I think-

   5. KSKara Swisher30:38

      Also Stallone, I'm not against Stallone, even though I think he's kind of heinous in many ways. I think h- he's culturally relevant in some fashion. Um, talk a little bit about these honors. What do they say about-

   6. WMWesley Morris30:49

      Well, it's funny, I'm gonna do an episode about-

   7. KSKara Swisher30:51

      ... him loved pop culture.

   8. WMWesley Morris30:51

      ... about these, about th- these five people.

   9. KSKara Swisher30:54

      Mm-hmm.

   10. WMWesley Morris30:54

       And, uh, this particular situation.

   11. KSKara Swisher30:56

       Who's the fifth? KISS, Sylvester Stallone, Gloria Gaynor, George Strait, who's the fifth?

   12. WMWesley Morris30:59

       Michael Crawford is the-

   13. KSKara Swisher31:01

       Crawford.

   14. WMWesley Morris31:01

       Yeah.

   15. KSKara Swisher31:01

       A- again, important Broadway star, no question.

   16. WMWesley Morris31:04

       He's not getting... Like, under ordinary circumstances-

   17. KSKara Swisher31:07

       N- No.

   18. WMWesley Morris31:07

       ... is Michael Craw-

   19. KSKara Swisher31:08

       No.

   20. WMWesley Morris31:08

       Like, can I give you-

   21. KSKara Swisher31:09

       No.

   22. WMWesley Morris31:09

       ... a list of people who are n- who have-

   23. KSKara Swisher31:10

       Yes, I know, I know, yes.

   24. WMWesley Morris31:10

       ... not been Kennedy Center?

   25. KSKara Swisher31:12

       Yes, I get it. Y- you start with... Has Audra McDonald gotten one yet? I don't know.

   26. WMWesley Morris31:16

       I mean, no, she has not.

   27. KSKara Swisher31:17

       No. Yes, she would be one.

   28. WMWesley Morris31:17

       Has Madonna? I mean...

   29. KSKara Swisher31:20

       Madonna, no.

   30. WMWesley Morris31:20

       You know, I mean, I just... There's so many people.
4. 38:21 – 43:54

   White House Joins TikTok

   1. KSKara Swisher38:21

      TikTok just got a new user, the White House. The Trump administration launched an official account this week, despite the fact that a federal law requires TikTok to be sold or banned. Though Trump keeps extending the deadline illegally, by the way. The new White House account posted several videos, including one in which Trump says, "I am your voice." Posts were quickly flooded with spam and negative comments, many referencing the Epstein files.

   2. WMWesley Morris38:41

      Oh, wow.

   3. KSKara Swisher38:41

      Trump is reportedly still working on a deal for US investors to buy TikTok from its parent company, ByteDance. Probably Larry Ellison will be involved in that. The latest deadline for the ban expires in mid-September. Uh, he keeps extending it. Talk about him using TikTok. And years ago, just so people that know, he called TikTok a national security threat in 2020 and tried to ban it back then, and then he shifted when one of his biggest donors he realized was one of a, um, uh, was one of the biggest investors in it, Jeff Yass. Um, so any thoughts on them doing this?

   4. WMWesley Morris39:13

      I, you know, I, I gotta be honest. Well, first of all, I, I would have just assumed that the White House had already had a TikTok account before-

   5. KSKara Swisher39:20

      Me too. I'm saying, hey...

   6. WMWesley Morris39:21

      ... this guy got back into office. Not that Biden would have been all over it or anything.

   7. KSKara Swisher39:25

      Yeah.

   8. WMWesley Morris39:25

      But there would have been some, like, young person in the Biden administration who was like, "Hey, Uncle Joe!"

   9. KSKara Swisher39:31

      Yeah, yeah. They, th- they had a pretty good-

   10. WMWesley Morris39:32

       "Here's some ShakeyCam video."

   11. KSKara Swisher39:33

       ... they had a pretty good social media group there.

   12. WMWesley Morris39:36

       Yeah, I mean-

   13. KSKara Swisher39:36

       I actually thought they did.

   14. WMWesley Morris39:37

       ... uh, so I'm surprised by that. But I also, I mean, I, this, as a story, I know that I'm supposed to be disturbed and upset by the idea of simultaneously the national security threat being addressed. Like, you know, legitimately, you gotta find somebody else to do this, can't let the Chinese government involved in, you know, our private business. I think the ship has sailed. I don't know about you.

   15. KSKara Swisher40:00

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, me too.

   16. WMWesley Morris40:00

       Um, if, if, if, if you were on it, they got it. I think it's a wrap. It's, how many, like, every Amer- like, are they, are there new TikTok users besides the White House?

   17. KSKara Swisher40:09

       Yeah.

   18. WMWesley Morris40:09

       Like-

   19. KSKara Swisher40:09

       No, I agree. TikTok's, that's what I always thought would happen.

   20. WMWesley Morris40:11

       They got everything.

   21. KSKara Swisher40:12

       It'll just decline. It would just-

   22. WMWesley Morris40:12

       They don't need anything else.

   23. KSKara Swisher40:14

       They don't, they-

   24. WMWesley Morris40:15

       (laughs)

   25. KSKara Swisher40:15

       ... they, it would, I just think, like most of these media things, they'll go up and down, and TikTok's not on a ascension necessarily. I don't know what the new thing will be. Probably YouTube in many ways, oddly enough.

   26. WMWesley Morris40:25

       How do you... Well, uh, w- uh, YouTube new how? Like in terms of growth?

   27. KSKara Swisher40:29

       I, I mean, people u- Growth, yeah.

   28. WMWesley Morris40:30

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   29. KSKara Swisher40:30

       When you look at the growth, I think they've been, they're fine. They're sort of baked in.

   30. WMWesley Morris40:35

       Mm-hmm.
5. 43:54 – 53:22

   South Park Does It Again

   1. KSKara Swisher43:54

      Park has done it again. I have to say, whatever these, is in these people's drinks is working for them.

   2. WMWesley Morris43:59

      (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher43:59

      The third episode of the show, current season, continued to mock the Trump Administration. The episode focused on federal takeover of DC.

   4. WMWesley Morris44:05

      Mm-hmm.

   5. KSKara Swisher44:05

      In the episode, the president is mocked for accepting bribes from big tech CEOs, sort of real to life, once again is in bed with Satan and yet still has a micropenis. Let's listen to a clip of Trump receiving gifts, uh, from a line of suck-ups including Tim Cook.

   6. NANarrator44:21

      Mr. President, you have so many great ideas. Your leadership is truly beyond anything we have ever had in this country, and you do not have a small penis.

   7. NANarrator44:33

      Ah, thanks Ken.

   8. NANarrator44:35

      On behalf of the state of Florida, I'd like to give you this gift, a silver plated space shuttle.

   9. WMWesley Morris44:41

      Next!

   10. NANarrator44:46

       Mr. President, your ideas for the tech industry are so innovative and you definitely do not have a small penis. Ah, thanks Ken. Please accept this gift on behalf of Apple.

   11. WMWesley Morris44:58

       Next!

   12. KSKara Swisher45:01

       (laughs)

   13. WMWesley Morris45:03

       (laughs)

   14. KSKara Swisher45:03

       So tell me what you think of, um, it also did take... This latest episode also took some shots at ChatGBT by the way, um, but talk about the show right now. Something is, something's in their Wheaties or whatever, the old expression would be.

   15. WMWesley Morris45:16

       Um, I think that the timing is really good.

   16. KSKara Swisher45:19

       Mm-hmm.

   17. WMWesley Morris45:19

       Um, I think there's something about the brute force of the South Park, um, comedy ideology.

   18. KSKara Swisher45:28

       Mm-hmm.

   19. WMWesley Morris45:28

       Um, I think the show didn't have to change to, for us to come back to it.

   20. KSKara Swisher45:35

       What do you mean the brute force of the comedy ideology? Explain that.

   21. WMWesley Morris45:39

       Um, their, their approach is really to just name the thing, right? To just say the thing that it, that he, that, to make the subtextual textual. Um, there's no line to, you don't need to be literate to watch the show, if you know what I mean.

   22. KSKara Swisher45:58

       Yep, absolutely.

   23. WMWesley Morris45:58

       Like, you don't need to be visually literate and you don't need to really have a great sort of sense of cultural literacy. You just have to basically know, like have a gist of what's happening, um, especially now. But I mean, these guys, their genius is for, um... I think that's part of their genius, to sort of be declarative in, as comedians, um, to not need to have... It's like the Easter egg is, is an omelet on that show.

   24. KSKara Swisher46:32

       (laughs) You just see it, they just say it.

   25. WMWesley Morris46:35

       It's just the thing that you, they've cracked it open.

   26. KSKara Swisher46:38

       Even if it's stuff-

   27. WMWesley Morris46:38

       You don't have to look for it.

   28. KSKara Swisher46:39

       ... that you might not agree, like the trans stuff, people complain about that. I just think they go after everybody, right? Or-

   29. WMWesley Morris46:44

       I think that, well, that's the thing that, like, always sort of scared me about those guys. I mean, I'm doing an, I'm doing an episode with somebody about my relationship with this show and a lot of what I'm, the, a lot of where we're starting in this conversation is me sort of thinking through how much the show scared me because it was forcing me to think, um, differently about things that, you know, as a young person, I thought I understood. And here were people who were basically my age who, who were making fun of things that I didn't think you could make fun of. Um-

   30. KSKara Swisher47:24

       Give, give me an example.
6. 53:22 – 1:04:29

   Taylor Swift: Podcaster

   1. KSKara Swisher53:22

      more news. Last week, Taylor Swift went on her boyfriend, Travis Kelce's podcast to announce her newest album. Uh, as usual, she broke the internet. The episode had 1.3 million live viewers, which is almost double the audience that tuned in to see Donald Trump on Joe Rogan. At the time of the taping, the episode has 20 million YouTube views in total. Meanwhile, Spotify reported the episode has become one of the past year's highest performing within just one day of release, increased female viewership of the shows by 600%. Not a surprise. Um, uh, talk about-

   2. WMWesley Morris53:49

      600%?

   3. KSKara Swisher53:51

      600%.

   4. WMWesley Morris53:51

      God damn.

   5. KSKara Swisher53:52

      I know, I know.

   6. WMWesley Morris53:53

      (laughs)

   7. KSKara Swisher53:53

      I guess the dudes were watching that. Um, talk about, um, uh, that, uh, what she can do whenever it wants. I mean, of course, Donald Trump is saying she's not hot anymore. She's still hot. She still remains as hot as can be.

   8. WMWesley Morris54:04

      I'm sorry, can we pause for a minute? What does he mean she's not hot anymore?

   9. KSKara Swisher54:07

      Uh, I don't know 'cause she is hot. She looked beautiful in that show. I'd just say she looked good.

   10. WMWesley Morris54:10

       Like, does he mean, did he mean it like that? Or she's not like-

   11. KSKara Swisher54:13

       No, she's no longer the thing. She's not, I'm like, she's still the thing.

   12. WMWesley Morris54:17

       What, what is he talking about?

   13. KSKara Swisher54:17

       Exactly.

   14. WMWesley Morris54:18

       This man, I mean, I can't talk about big tie energy. I just can't do it. (laughs) I just won't do it.

   15. KSKara Swisher54:24

       Yeah, exactly.

   16. WMWesley Morris54:25

       Um, big, like, long tie energy?

   17. KSKara Swisher54:25

       So, what do you think about this episode?

   18. WMWesley Morris54:27

       Is that what it is? Um, I-

   19. KSKara Swisher54:28

       Long tie energy. Yeah.

   20. WMWesley Morris54:31

       First of all, I found it interesting that, that, that she basically was using it to, she was using this appearance to announce an album essentially, right?

   21. KSKara Swisher54:41

       Yes, exactly.

   22. WMWesley Morris54:42

       It, it wasn't as though this show needed... It, you know, there are shows that would love to have Taylor Swift come on for the numbers.

   23. KSKara Swisher54:50

       Yeah.

   24. WMWesley Morris54:50

       This, this didn't feel like a numbers play to me.

   25. KSKara Swisher54:52

       No.

   26. WMWesley Morris54:52

       Um, it felt like she was trying something out. I mean, she kind of said it herself on the, in the-

   27. KSKara Swisher54:58

       Mm-hmm.

   28. WMWesley Morris54:58

       ... on the episode.

   29. KSKara Swisher54:59

       Mm-hmm.

   30. WMWesley Morris54:59

       Um, but I think that, you know, I mean this is a show that has Adam Sandler come on, Brad Pitt's been on it.
7. 1:04:29 – 1:10:38

   Predictions

   1. WMWesley Morris1:04:30

   2. KSKara Swisher1:04:30

      Okay, Wesley, let's hear a prediction. Uh, anything you want, anything you want.

   3. WMWesley Morris1:04:36

      I'm really thinking about another thing. I wanna, I'm gonna do an Adam Sandler episode. (laughs)

   4. KSKara Swisher1:04:43

      Okay, I love Adam Sandler. I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm not against this.

   5. WMWesley Morris1:04:47

      And, um, I am just obsessed with these directors trying to win this man an Oscar.

   6. KSKara Swisher1:04:55

      Oh, because they're-

   7. WMWesley Morris1:04:55

      Like-

   8. KSKara Swisher1:04:55

      … trying to, the serious ones?

   9. WMWesley Morris1:04:56

      Just everybody wants to try to wi- like, the, the murderer's row of people who have tried-

   10. KSKara Swisher1:05:02

       Mm-hmm.

   11. WMWesley Morris1:05:02

       … to win this man an Academy Award-

   12. KSKara Swisher1:05:04

       Mm-hmm.

   13. WMWesley Morris1:05:04

       … is just, y'all need to s- just stop it.

   14. KSKara Swisher1:05:07

       Why?

   15. WMWesley Morris1:05:08

       Just stop.

   16. KSKara Swisher1:05:09

       Why stop?

   17. WMWesley Morris1:05:10

       Because when you stop trying, it will happen. I mean, I don't know. I just, so there's this Noah Baumbach movie coming out, um, toward the end of the year that he is in, and you know, I- I've really enjoyed Noah Baumbach. I enjoy (laughs) Adam Sandler. Um, this isn't even my favorite Adam Sandler mode. I can't, I won't even get into it here, but, like, I think, I believe for a lot of reasons, the, the s- the stars will align for Adam Sandler to at least go to the Academy Awards with his name on a list. I-

   18. KSKara Swisher1:05:43

       Okay.

   19. WMWesley Morris1:05:43

       That's a prediction I'm making.

   20. KSKara Swisher1:05:44

       That's what you predict. And you-

   21. WMWesley Morris1:05:45

       I'm predicting it.

   22. KSKara Swisher1:05:45

       … you know, he's done a lot of cer- I mean, remember Spanglish in 2004?

   23. WMWesley Morris1:05:48

       I just watched the sandwich scene from that movie.

   24. KSKara Swisher1:05:50

       It's so r- it's such a good movie, A Pause Vega is amazing. I love Téa Leoni.

   25. WMWesley Morris1:05:53

       The lighting in that movie... The reason I can't really go back and keep watching it is-

   26. KSKara Swisher1:05:58

       Mm-hmm.

   27. WMWesley Morris1:05:58

       … it's some of the worst lighting-

   28. KSKara Swisher1:05:59

       Is it?

   29. WMWesley Morris1:06:00

       … I've ever seen in a movie.

   30. KSKara Swisher1:06:01

       Oh, see, I didn't pay attention.

Episode duration: 1:10:39