Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe on the Booming Business of Women's Sports | Pivot

1. KSKara Swisher0:00

   Let's bring in our friends of Pivot. Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird are legendary athletes, Olympic champions, and have been dubbed by GQ the most beloved power couple in sports. I don't know how many of them there are, but anyway, they're also hosts of the new Vox Media podcast, A Touch More. Welcome to the family, Megan and Sue.

2. MRMegan Rapinoe0:18

   Hi.

3. SBSue Bird0:19

   Hi. Thanks for having us. Thank you.

4. KSKara Swisher0:20

   How's it going? How's the podcasting going?

5. SBSue Bird0:23

   We are just learning on the fly. It's fun though. We're like figuring it out.

6. KSKara Swisher0:27

   Yeah. All right, so let me, it's, it, let's start with that. The show was originally launched on Instagram during COVID. Explain, explain what you are doing here with the podcast first.

7. SBSue Bird0:36

   Well yeah, it started, you know, I guess one edition of it, which was just, we were in the pandemic, stuck in our apartment. What's something we could do together that would be fun? So we decided to go on IG Live like every Saturday at whatever time, 7:00. We were drinking, we were having fun, we were talking about current events, all the things. Um, and then fast-forward a couple years, somebody was like, "Hey, would you guys wanna do live shows?" So we were like, "All right, let's try to do that." And then it kind of morphed into what it is now as a podcast, which is definitely more women's sports bent, you know, where culture, politics, fashion, all the things meet women's sports, and we're just kinda figuring it out from there.

8. MRMegan Rapinoe1:13

   Yeah, shooting from the hip on a lot. It's kinda fun.

9. KSKara Swisher1:15

   Yeah, did you feel like everyone has a podcast, you have to have one?

10. MRMegan Rapinoe1:18

    (laughs)

11. SBSue Bird1:18

    Kind of, yeah.

12. MRMegan Rapinoe1:18

    Honestly, that's probably what kept us out of it for so long was that everybody has podcasts. We're like-

13. SBSue Bird1:22

    I-

14. MRMegan Rapinoe1:22

    ... "Oh, we don't wanna be that."

15. SBSue Bird1:24

    I can't tell you-

16. MRMegan Rapinoe1:25

    But then-

17. SBSue Bird1:25

    ... how many people will just randomly say like, "Oh, man, does everyone have to have a podcast now?" And now I'm like, "We do too." Sorry.

18. MRMegan Rapinoe1:31

    But listen to ours.

19. KSKara Swisher1:33

    Sue, uh, you are of course a WNBA legend, having played with the Seattle Storm for 19 seasons. That's an astonishing, uh, thing. But the WNBA's having a remarkable season with record viewership and attendance, thanks in large part to rookies like Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, who's now out, um, uh, for the s- uh, for the season after an injury. I'd just love your assessment of, of what they should be doing to build the enthusiasm and Megan, I'd love you to jump in, uh, because it's sports, how to get people to do more sports. The New York Liberty has seen 130% year-over-year increase in season ticket membership. They've raised their prices as is, as have a number of WNBA teams. Um, and I also wanna mention Sue joined the ownership group for the Seattle Storm earlier this year. Why don't you start, Sue?

20. SBSue Bird2:17

    Sure. Um, I mean, my answer to this question is that we already did it. We already did it. The, the product on the floor has never been better. It has continued to be kind of like the rock of the league throughout the, the course of my career and then now. So that part, you know, check that box. I think the businesses, obviously we get a lotta help from the NBA, but now each individual team's business is being run with the future in mind, right, not just how we're gonna get by this year. So things have been, the foundation has been built for, for many, many years. And now what you're seeing is we've finally, through all the work we've done, yes, in the last 28 years, which is the league's existence, but also more so in the last like four or five years, now we're at this point where the way I like to look at it, we have crossed this imaginary line of celebrity that usually male athletes automatically cross the minute they're drafted, the minute they play. For some reason, the WNBA was held back. We know those reasons. A lot of them end with an -ism. And so now that we've crossed that line, you're seeing that people are looking at us differently. They're looking at the league differently. When they get offered WNBA tickets, you know, not just celebrities, general, you know, people in general, but when they get offered, now it's like, "Oh, yeah, let me check that out." Whereas used to be like, "Eh, is it worth it?" So somehow, we have crossed that line. And now that we're on the other side, I just imagine business is gonna continue to boom. The only thing that we talk about a lot is wanting people, whether it's corporate pa- partnership, um, networks, um, you name it, they, we want them to look at our potential. We've gotten to that point. Like, we've proven it. We're here. We've done the thing. We've done the thing without your support. Now imagine what it would look like if we had your support. So if people can see our potential, that's where the business is gonna take off in another direction.

21. KSKara Swisher4:04

    So Megan, if you could comment 'cause, I think probably the same thing that's happening with soccer and other things, but talk about that invisible line of celebrity and what it does. Like, what, what do you think has happened? Is it because say your, your, your team did so well or people were looking at women's sports in general? Though they don't separ- they separate out men's sports pretty easily.

22. MRMegan Rapinoe4:23

    I mean, I think it's a, a combination of a lot of things, but I think just in general, the sort of changing tide in the, the country even. I mean, even through the pandemic, obviously, the WNBA's work in getting Reverend Warnock and Senator Warnock, um, elected, but it's also like I honestly feel like the people with the money, and we normally know who, who those people are, ran out of excuses or things that they could (laughs) sort of blame on not investing in, in women's sports. And now, all of them are like flocking, you know? Like (laughs) it's like Bob Iger bought into, um, you know, the team in LA, Angel City FC. So I feel like it's like we can't say that it's not fun anymore. We can't say that like everyone's gay and we don't like that anymore. Like, being overtly racist isn't really that cool anymore, and so I feel like in a lot of ways, it just kinda like crossed this threshold. I think social media was a big part of that. Players could get their own stories out, different ways to disseminate media. I think that increased TV viewership increased, you know, um, investment from not only existing ownership groups but new ownership groups coming in, and it's actually like, "Okay, fine. We'll stop discriminating. Like, we'll just see how the business goes." To your point about the, you know, the sort of potential, men get invested on potential and what they might do eventually all the time. That's sort of the baseline. For women, it's like you have to do the thing, catch lightning in the bottle.

23. KSKara Swisher5:50

    Scott?

24. SGScott Galloway5:50

    This is more a question m- maybe for both of you, and bring Sue in. I think of different leagues or different sports as asset classes. Some are increasing in value. Some are decreasing in value. Outside of the WNBA or football, where you both are gonna have a bias, what sports, as you look across the landscape, or what leagues do you think are increasing the most in value and also decreasing the most in value? I've heard the NFL has an aging problem, for example, or its viewers are aging. Any thoughts on which assets are increasing or decreasing?

25. MRMegan Rapinoe6:18

    I think it's, I mean, I, I feel like in male sports honestly, the, the screw has been turned and is-... being turned to milk every little last thing, and they're thinking, "Okay, can we get augmented reality in?" Obviously, the betting has been huge. But yeah, I mean, I, I think all women's sports is, is on the up, because it's been so underinvested in, and there's such a, um, an investment gap. There's, there's so much room to grow across media platforms, live platform, like all of it. Um, I mean, the NFL just seems to rake in money, but I, I just have to believe at some point, like, that's just gonna run out. I mean, at, at some point, it's like we're, it's not gonna be okay that, you know, however many percentage of the players have brain damage. That just feels like (laughs) unsustainable.

26. SBSue Bird7:03

    Yeah. Oftentimes, when I think of this question, not, not worded the way you worded it, um, I'll look at the NFL, the NBA, whatever it is, and I'll be like, "What's gonna take this down?" Or, "What's gonna-"

27. SGScott Galloway7:13

    Yeah.

28. SBSue Bird7:13

    "... decrease this value?" Or, "What's gonna change player salary?" I-

29. SGScott Galloway7:15

    We keep waiting, and it doesn't happen.

30. MRMegan Rapinoe7:16

    Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 12:19