PivotTrump Ruined the Reflecting Pool. Now He's Arresting People for It | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
60 min read · 11,755 words- 0:00 – 0:32
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
He's blaming everybody, and it's the same thing. "Oh, it's vandals, it's this, it's that." It's him. He's just a disaster. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, live from the south of France.
- SGScott Galloway
Bonsoir, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
Bonsoir. Bonsoir. How are you?
- SGScott Galloway
Ah, hello. How are you?
- KSKara Swisher
Hello. Oh. Oh. That's our entire French. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
That's it. We're done.
- KSKara Swisher
That's it. We've got a lot to get to today. There's so much going on-
- SGScott Galloway
A lot going on
- KSKara Swisher
... including Greenwatergate.
- 0:32 – 10:48
Reflecting Pool Fiasco
- KSKara Swisher
Get it? Greenwatergate.
- SGScott Galloway
Greenwatergate. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I told you this thing would blow up. President Trump says it will be- he said it will begin fixing the seriously vandalized Reflecting Pool, vandalized by him. Trump is claiming, without evidence, he's lying, that vandals cut a 250-foot gash in the pool's new lining and poured corrosive and destructive chemicals into the water. This is nonsense. There's cameras everywhere in Washington, just so you know. He said multiple people have been arrested, tied to the alleged destruction. This is just nonsense. One of them was a former Olympian who was accused by the Park Police of destroying government property. He says he reached down to touch a strip of peeling paint. I was down there, Scott. It was peeling. It... [laughs] Nobody was touching it. Everyone was sort of shocked and amazed by how grotesque it was, 'cause, you know, you go down there, I've gone down there quite a bit, and I've never really noticed the, the skyminess of it, and it really is. It's green. All this paint's peeling off, so he's lying. And Trump, of course, should be accused of vandalizing a lot of Washington, whether it was the East Wing or the, the grass in front of the White House for his, his, uh, his party. You know, it's just ridiculous, but it's taking on a life of its own. It really is, in terms of a, of a metaphorical thing, or maybe you don't think that?
- SGScott Galloway
No. I mean, the president is caught between two straits of water. It's just-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
We'll get to that in a minute
- SGScott Galloway
... I, I, I personally... I think this is kind of a non-story. America's turning 250, and we've managed to turn a reflecting pool into a culture war. I just... For God's sakes, just fix it and let's move on. I don't, I don't... I, I kinda... I... You know, they, he, th- they are lying and saying that it's sabotage and vandalism. It isn't. It's incompetence. It's a government project turning into another government project, and the Democrats love to talk about... I, I think we have bigger fish to fry. I, I, I'm kind of-
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree, but I don't think it's a bad... I think people get it in a second, 'cause it's, again, as I told you, it's a symbol, and it's also the, the guy who did it is another piece of grift.
- SGScott Galloway
100%. Zero bid contract. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
And it looks incompetent. It looks incompetent. And, you know, one of the jokes online was that, you know, Washington is now Scar after, as, after he took over, uh, took over, uh, on, uh, The Lion King. Um, but, uh, but it, it... There is more to that because then you link it, I think, with Iran too, which continues to be, like, a problem. Like, here's-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... you know, they keep going back and forth. And that is the real problem. It is, but it's symbolic of just complete idiocy. Like, like, really stupid. We'll get to some other stupid things coming up. But, um, i- it, talk a little about... I know, I noticed you were talking about a lot online, um, the, uh, MOU, which seems, the Iranians seem to have us by the short hairs. That's what it feels like to me. I don't know about you. But they, they're not doing anything. They're just dragging us on, I guess, and being rude to J.D. Vance, which I completely think they should be.
- SGScott Galloway
T- Trump has delivered on his promise of unconditional surrender. The problem is, we're the ones unconditionally surrendering.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
It is insane. Anyone who can do math, anyone who understands a memo of understanding, anyone who can look at their activities, in, in my mind, it is just so incredibly clear and tragic what is going on. The IRGC recognizes he's left. The midterms are coming up. [laughs] It is a-
- KSKara Swisher
He's done
- SGScott Galloway
... very unpopular war. He got no support from the public, from Congress-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... from other nations. He underestimated the resilience of, of, of the missile systems. He has handed them something more powerful than a nuclear weapon, and that is an ability to choke the carotid artery of the global economy in the Strait of Hormuz. They know we are out.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
They do
- SGScott Galloway
... they, all they have to do is delay an obfuscation. It's just delay. Every day that goes back, it's less likely we're gonna go back in with military action.
- KSKara Swisher
No, he can't. He really can't.
- SGScott Galloway
They have to operate between, uh, humor them, agree to meet in Switzerland, don't get a deal done. They have the perfect false flag. "Oh, uh, Israel's bombed Lebanon. You're not le- l- lead... Uh, you're not living up to your part of the agreement."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
"We're out."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
They have no intention of giving anything back, and the only thing that's gonna come out of this, besides Trump's, Trump, Trump's incompetence and J.D. Vance, uh, you know, having about as long a presidential run as Senator Gillibrand, is that we are gonna look back on this and recognize that one of the greatest acts of diplomacy was the JCPOA.
- 10:48 – 16:13
Keir Starmer Resigns
- KSKara Swisher
Keir Starmer just announced he's stepping down as Britain's prime minister, giving into mounting pressure from his own party. Uh, Starmer said he'll stay in office until a new party leader is selected, and likely to be this guy named Andy Burnham, former mayor of Greater Manchester, very popular guy. Trump got ahead of the announcement over the weekend, noting Starmer would step down and saying he had failed badly on immigration energy policy. Also, a lot of attacks from Elon Musk, by the way. Uh, Starmer's resignation comes almost 10 years to the day since the Brexit vote. The UK has had six prime ministers in that time.
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] I love that.
- KSKara Swisher
It's crazy. Um, talk a little bit about... Y- you live there. What has happened here? Obviously, he was gonna lose an election, and he had won in a landslide ver- in a very short time ago.
- SGScott Galloway
I think a lot of it comes down to economics, and that is, uh... I mean, it's very strange. Uh, Mykonos, and St. Barts, and Hawaii are parts of those nations, but they're not. They're islands that have an entirely different culture. I feel that way about London. I think islands-- I think London's essentially an island in the UK 'cause if you look at the UK, seven out of 10 IPOs in the last 10 years are below their offering price. GDP was supposed to take a 4 to 6% hit from Brexit, the second-greatest own goal in geopolitical history behind our entry into Iraq. You have, now, the UK as a whole has a lower average household income than Mississippi. And then there's London, which is essentially where the richest people in the world park capital and have a European lifestyle with actually, without actually engaging in the UK economy. I mean, it's just, it's a very strange place. Since I have moved there- A-after we have a new UK, a new prime minister in several weeks. I've been there four years. This will be my fifth prime minister.
- KSKara Swisher
Fifth, right? You had-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
... conservatives. There was a bunch of con- there was a conservative guy. There was Boris.
- SGScott Galloway
It, it's, it's not politics, it's speed dating. It's beginning to feel like a LinkedIn jobs page. It's just so, you know, it, it... But without growth, until they figure out a way, I, I thought they should do backs it. They should reintegrate into the European economy because without growth, all of this gets harder and harder. And the weird, the quagmire here, or the, not the quagmire, the enigma is that the UK has all the underpinnings of a great democracy and economic growth engine. It has incredible universities, rule of law, culture compounds. Everybody in the world, uh, wants to or wouldn't mind the idea of living in the UK for a few years. It's a wonderful place, and yet they c- la- OpenAI, Anthropic, and SpaceX are gonna raise $150 billion in fresh capital. The UK raised a total of $2 billion last year in its entire IPO market. They just can't get out of their own way, and Brexit, and just to go to politics, since World War II, no individual has done more harm to Britain, in my view, than Nigel Farage, who might be a prime minister at some point. So I have w- stayed woefully ignorant to UK politics, but it is difficult for me to understand how the foundation of success, how they continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here, and I gotta think it's something, it's, uh, gotta be a big, bold move. Even, even the non-dom thing, we kicked out, basically they chased a lot of billionaires out of the UK, and I understand the sentiment. It's let's tickle the middle class sensors of people who are angry, but at the same time, the treasury's gone down because a lot of wealthy people are leaving, and that reduces your tax base to, you know, provide for the NHS and these social services. But this is, I mean, UK politics, and then what you have, you have the rise of populism. They have had real problems. You know, it, it, to a certain extent, it's a metaphor for the West. You have, or when the West goes wrong, stagnant wages, housing shortages, immigration anxiety, and institutional distrust. And it's j-
- KSKara Swisher
You also have a lot of, uh, meddling by Elon Musk in terms of, of backing a bunch of very violent people against immigrants.
- SGScott Galloway
The American export is political divisiveness.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
[chuckles] It's not helping.
- KSKara Swisher
But it's Elon himself that's meddling quite a bit.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but then J.D. Vance comes over and lectures them about free speech. It's like we shouldn't, uh, you know, in my view, Americans should be here saying, "You're our greatest ally. Uh, how can we help? What can we do together? How do we open more free trade agreements instead?" Instead, Musk shows up and says, "Rise up, white people," or, or, I mean, essentially-
- KSKara Swisher
That Tommy guy, I forget his name
- SGScott Galloway
... and J.D. Vance comes over and waves his finger at him around free speech. And now they've got to figure out a way to, to, to basically untangle the technology. Uh, uh, their nu- Britain's nuclear arsenal runs on American technology, and all of a sudden Europe is waking up and going, "What the fuck?" They have become way-
- KSKara Swisher
The conservatives, the conservatives aren't popular either, and Farage kind of is. It's like nobody's popular. It's a real-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... it's a-
- SGScott Galloway
Very angry nation. But when you don't have growth, people's prosperity goes down, and they just get angrier and angrier. So I, I, I, again, not to talk too much about, uh, uh, money, but they have got to figure out a way to get growth going again.
- KSKara Swisher
How would you do that?
- SGScott Galloway
When, when your growth grows, you have more money, you have more flexibility, you have more power abroad, you have more... You can't have a powerful nation that's shrinking its GDP. And again, I was in Cannes when Brexit happened and the pound crashed. It's cost them 8% of their GDP, which is like taking hundreds of billions of pounds into the street and just lighting it on fire.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they may return to the... I mean, it's interesting 'cause Europe is getting more and more unified. Speaking
- 16:13 – 23:10
Trump vs. Meloni
- KSKara Swisher
of which, Trump's latest feud is with one of his pals, basically his European Marjorie Taylor Greene, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. This spat started after Trump... This is so strange. Again, I'm sorry. This, this guy's lost his mind. After Trump claimed Meloni, Meloni, uh, begged him for a, Meloni, it was Meloni, uh, begged him for a photo of last week's G7 summit in France, Meloni responded with a video on Instagram, which was quite remarkable, calling Trump's claims totally fabricated and saying, "Italy and I never beg." She also accused Trump of being more accommodating to the enemies of the West than his own allies. Trump then doubled down, saying Meloni is doing poorly in Italy with her level of popularity, which she fired back, "My popularity is none of your concern. I suggest you focus on yours," pointing to his bad, his lowering, increasingly lowering popularity. Um, boy, this woman, even though, let me just, let's be clear, she's anti-gay marriage, she's anti-trans, she's anti-immigrant. She's not, she's Marjorie Taylor Greene, essentially. This is the European version of her. And at the same time, I, I was like, "Go Giorgia." Like, it was kind of interesting that he continues. Again, the sign of someone who is having some cognitive problems, it seemed like to me. Not, this is u- usually he's such a-
- SGScott Galloway
He's always been like this
- KSKara Swisher
... he's always been an asshole-
- SGScott Galloway
He's always been an asshole
- KSKara Swisher
... but not this much of an asshole. Like, and, and she just took it to him, which I found really int- I mean, obviously, it helps her in Italy 'cause he's not popular there, and he's not popular anywhere in Europe now. And they were tight as ticks, if you recall, you know?
- SGScott Galloway
But this is, again, uh, greatness is in the agency of others, and European countries have been our strongest allies. We share same values, same democracies. We've worked together. We've had incredible... The post-World War II world was largely shaped by America and European values. And Trump decides, again, he's figured out a way to manage to feud with and alienate, feud with and alienate allies while simultaneously praising adversaries. And we've spent 80 years developing these alliances, and Trump treats them like some sort of fantasy football league. And Meloni, to her credit, she remains, her popularity is actually greater than most Western leaders And picking-- And then he decides to pick a fight with one of the few European leaders who actually likes him. And, uh, uh, is this-- And, and none of this-
- KSKara Swisher
She went at him on the Pope, too. She doesn't much like his comments on the Pope either.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, well, I mean, come on. Uh, uh, criticizing the Pope is like if someone-
- KSKara Swisher
Not in Italy he goes to there
- SGScott Galloway
... in Italy.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You just don't do-- You don't do that. None of this makes any sense, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
Doesn't make sense.
- SGScott Galloway
None of it makes any sense. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
None of it. I believe her. Believe the woman. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I totally believe her.
- SGScott Galloway
I believe her.
- KSKara Swisher
He's such a creep. But this is interesting 'cause she's a really-- 'cause she's really-- If you actually look at a lot of her policies, they're pretty heinous in terms of how she behaves. But she's sort of shifted. I mean, she used Trump to sort of get there, and now she's cutting him loose, like, like, more than others, actually. The others haven't been quite as critical of him. Uh, Starmer certainly hasn't, right? Or any of them have. I don't know. The, the Germans haven't. This-- She's really taken it to the wall.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I think, I think, I think most of them have decided wait him out. Uh, it's a smart move for Meloni 'cause she comes across as a leader and not afraid and-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, you know, I-
- KSKara Swisher
And he's not popular
- SGScott Galloway
... good for her.
- KSKara Swisher
It's not, not good for her. We look terrible once again. By the way, it's really interesting to be in Europe because a lot of people are saying, "You don't like Trump, do you?" to me. [laughs] I'm like, "No."
- SGScott Galloway
Really?
- KSKara Swisher
No. Yeah, a lot of the Europeans sort of test it. When we were in Paris several different times, um, like, "Hmm, you're not a fan of Trump." I'm like, "Hardly." Like, "Hello, lesbian family." Like, no. Um, and so they asked, several Europeans, there was a tour guide at the Eiffel Tower or whatever, were sort of like poking to see, um, if we liked him, which obviously we look like an ad for not liking Trump. And anyway, um, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about how Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos tried to cozy up to Trump. This is an interesting story. [gentle music] Support for Pivot comes from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Quick reminder, America started a rebellion.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, yeah, we fired a king claiming divine authority.
- KSKara Swisher
And then wrote a constitution with no mention of God.
- SGScott Galloway
Which is a big deal.
- 23:10 – 28:39
Trump Mocks Zuckerberg & Bezos
- KSKara Swisher
President Trump reportedly took frequent jabs at Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos as they tried to build ties with his administration. That's according to a new book by New York Times reporters Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, who I'm gonna have on the "On" podcast soon. The president, uh, told guests stories about Zuckerberg and Bezos kissing his ass, which they were, saying, "You would not believe the texts I got from these tech guys. I gotta show you." Among them, Zuckerberg sent Trump a photo of a letter written by one of his young children, which said they were looking forward to a golden age of America, a Trump rally slogan. Bezos, meanwhile, reportedly told Trump that The Washington Post was one of his worst investments and that people there are really terrible. Oh my God. I mean, honestly. And then, of course, he, he was showing it to Elon too. They all made fun of them and, you know... Anyway, it was kind of-- I mean, I-- By the way, on the other side, they insult him behind his back too. But w-what, what is the-- What has happened here from your perspective when you were reading sort of this stuff? I'm not surprised by one bit of it whatsoever. Um, but I don't know if they'll get their reputations back. We always thought Trump was a jerk, but this is really kind of-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but it represents a flip that is, that is sort of represents something, in my view, kind of dark, and that is politicians used to kiss the ass of billionaires because billionaires had money and politicians wanted to get elected, and it became kind of a pay-for-play thing because of Citizens United. But when you think about this, Bezos and Zuckerberg are worth hundreds of billions of dollars. And yet they both still feel compelled to kiss the ass of an eighty-year-old real estate developer.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Capital always chases power, but Silicon Valley spent twenty years telling us government didn't matter, and then everyone started flying to Washington. And what this signals around the dark part is the following. If you're worth a quarter of a trillion dollars and still kissing the ass of the president, you're not... This has moved from buying influence to renting protection. This is a transition for a pay-for-play democracy to something even worse, and that is a mob protection racket-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. That's a very good point
- SGScott Galloway
... where if I want, if I wanna hold onto my wealth, I gotta start paying for protection, because anybody that doesn't sign up gets in his crosshairs and potentially, you know, all of these guys, uh, J- Jamie Dimon is the only one I can tell of all these, like, this power crew that hasn't kissed his ass and is actually willing to occasionally say the obvious, and now the government is suing JP Morgan. So it doesn't matter how powerful you are, you gotta pay the mob. And this is, what do you have? You want a democracy where money can't buy influence or can't buy too much. Then you move to a democracy, a quote-unquote democracy or a kleptocracy where money buys everything. And now we're in a, in my opinion, a pr- protection racket where Bezos and Zuckerberg gotta, like, gotta kiss the ring here. It's feeling very Russian.
- KSKara Swisher
But do they gotta? Do they gotta? I feel like they're more powerful. I don't under- even understand it. Like, I, I don't, I don't know. I mean, they could wait him out. Like, they've got so much money, they could do so much damage to him.
- SGScott Galloway
You're gonna... If, if the De- I do think if the Democrats take Congress, and we get about eighteen or twenty-four months out, I think you're g- all of a sudden gonna see, as I say, these guys are gonna grow testicles again. I think you're gonna see a switch-
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh, they're so awful
- SGScott Galloway
... 'cause I know they all tell you they can't stand him, but the smart play, I hate to say it, the smart play is just to kiss his ass.
- KSKara Swisher
I guess, but it's so gro- you don't have to do it in a gro- type with your kids. Oh my God, like, "My child wrote this to you." Do you know how much of, much of a loser you look like that you're pimping out your kids? And then Bezos, just sell the fucking Washington Post if it's one of your worst investments and people are terrible.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't get that. We talked-
- KSKara Swisher
That one
- SGScott Galloway
... we've talked that. I still don't understand why he still owns that.
- KSKara Swisher
They won't engage. You know, it's not just me who was interested. There was a dozen people. Wouldn't engage with any of them. I've talked to every one of them. Wouldn't engage. Not once. What, what does he do? What is he, like... Like, I don't know what's happening. If he doesn't like it, if it's his worst investments and people are terrible, and by the way, Jeff, they hate you, um, why not just get rid of it? It's so f- weird.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I don't get that one. I don't understand why he's-
- KSKara Swisher
'Cause it doesn't give him power. By the way, it's do- it did an amazing story on Tulsi Gabbard this week. Like, it's done several amazing stories, um, around the corruption and everything else. I mean, the news parts. The, the editorial section is such w- weak sauce now, it's really hard to read. Um, but I agree. I don't understand it. I think... I don't know. When, when they're sucking up to the normal president, do, are we gonna forgive them or do we care? No, they've sort of soiled themselves pretty significantly.
- SGScott Galloway
It feels very Russian in the sense that doesn't matter-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... how rich you are.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they can get you.
- SGScott Galloway
You gotta send Putin, you gotta send Putin his vig, and no matter where you are, you might, if you really piss him off, he's gonna put a neurotoxin on a doorknob. I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, but it's, this guy wasn't gonna do that. That's the thing. It's not like... In there, I kinda see it, 'cause he, like, that's kinda going out a window kinda thing. This is just something else.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I think, I think these guys, in a capitalist society, begin to equate success and ego and influence just with a number, and that is your net worth. And I think they're very smart, and they connect all the dots and see the matrix around how to increase their net worth. And they've con- they've connected the dots here and say, "Just kiss his ass." It's just, it's, it's a really high ROI activity.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, they're so gross. They're just gross. The pimping out your kids, it's just gross. Sorry, it's just gross. It's gross. Um,
- 28:39 – 35:32
Amazon Dumps OpenAI Movie
- KSKara Swisher
in other Amazon news, sp- this is interesting. Amazon's movie studio is dumping an upcoming film about Sam Altman, saying the project would be better served in another studio. The decision comes as Amazon plans to invest fifty billion dollars in OpenAI this year. The move reportedly stunned the filmmakers. Very good filmmakers, by the way. Andrew Garfield was in it. Um, I am in the script. I don't come off very well. I look like I'm too nice to Sam, but I don't care. Um, since Amazon had already spent about forty million dollars on the movie, tested it for markets, it was working towards a release date, um, they... I don't know, and they can't... It, this is not getting picked up. Netflix passed, apparently. A couple of different places passed. Um, and it's, you know, it's, it's a high-level film. I, I, I read the script, um, and I didn't like it. I thought it was fictional in a lot of ways. They sort of painted Jeffrey in as a party guy, which I'm not in my experience, and they made that one guy who rebe- re- uh, rebelled against Sam into a hero, and I don't think he was either. I thought it was kind of broad and didn't... I thought it was not a good script. Um, but there's, of course, the other ones coming out about Mark Zuckerberg, the, the sequel, uh, The Social Reckoning, which we previously talked about, um, about Frances Haugen and, and that, that whole situation. That's coming out. That's g- That, that is coming out, um, with the guy from The Bear. But, uh, w- do you feel... I don't know. I, I don't know. Like, I'm not surprised they got rid of it if they just invested in OpenAI, but it seems kinda dumb spending all that money.
- SGScott Galloway
Well-
- KSKara Swisher
Huh?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I'm not-
- KSKara Swisher
It's not much, forty million. Who cares?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but we were well into the development or even production writer's room of, of-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yours. Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... our series on Netflix about big tech. That got the plug pulled.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
This has gotten the plug pulled.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I think they've just decided that, um-
- KSKara Swisher
They don't wanna be villains.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, and they don't... It's not worth the risk. You piss off either powerful people or you piss off the president. All these M&A, all these regulatory concerns, and quite frankly, the American public seems to have soured on AI. Or it could just be the following: the story of Sam Altman isn't that interesting. And it, it seemed more interesting 12 months ago than it is now. So I think they'd, you know, think, "Well, let's just do season four of Euphoria." I, I don't... I think they've done the math here and decided that stories about big tech-
- KSKara Swisher
Ooh, the gay, the gay hockey people seems popular. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, let's do, let's do the women's hockey team this year. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Toy Story 5 is doing incredibly well. Toy Story 5 is, like, killing it at the box office.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, huge opening.
- KSKara Swisher
I love Toy Story.
- SGScott Galloway
By the way, to your credit, I meant to tell you.
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
You've been talking about theaters, and I've been shitposting them. The best performing media stocks the last 12 months-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep. Thank you
- SGScott Galloway
... hasn't been Meta, or it hasn't been... It's been theaters.
- KSKara Swisher
Alex Swisher-
- SGScott Galloway
Theaters have made... There we go
- KSKara Swisher
... went to the theater. He did. He loved it. He's going again to watch the other one.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, IRL is a, is a, is a trend again.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. I'm just-
- SGScott Galloway
But anyways, back to, quote-unquote, "Artificial," the name of this, that they've killed. I think they just do the math and go-
- 35:32 – 46:27
SpaceX Crash
- KSKara Swisher
SpaceX hype is crashing. As we tape on Monday, SpaceX shares are down to $167, down 17%, valuing the company at $2.2 trillion, still enormous. The stock is still up 24% from the IPO price, but, oh, down over 16% from its peak. Uh, a lot of people feel this is gonna keep coming down. I don't know, but some people are buying. So will it have the effect on the upcoming IPOs? Um, and, and let's hear a question, uh, from a listener about Elon's shares and his impact on the company, and then we can answer all these questions.
- SPSpeaker
So if he tried to actually sell or borrow against even a smaller percentage of it tomorrow, what happens to the price? If he dies or is incapacitated tonight, what's the stock really worth the next morning?
- KSKara Swisher
[chuckles] Zero. Zero. Like, oh my God, that would be look out fucking below, but your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, my understanding is, so there's a lot of nuance there. My understanding is he's agreed to a self-lockup of a year, so he hasn't sold, he, he's not selling any shares.
- KSKara Swisher
But he could borrow against it.
- SGScott Galloway
That's exactly right, and he can borrow w- way more than he would could ever spend against it.
- KSKara Swisher
Explain how rich people do that, Scott, for people that don't understand. Bor- borrowing against your stock
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, so the, the ultimate wealth accumulation and income inequality strategy is the following. If you're fortunate enough to have equity in a company that does real- really well, it's called the buy, borrow, die strategy. And that is, Jeff Bezos owns $120 billion in Amazon shares, and to fund his lifestyle, he borrows against it at very low interest rates, and then he puts a lot of it in trust, and when he dies, there's a step up in valuation, so his kid don't h- kids don't have to pay taxes on it. Or when he actually starts selling, he decides he needs to spend more time with his fam- with his dad in Florida, such that he doesn't have to pay back the cost of the infrastructure of the great state of Washington that built his $120 billion in fortune. And the greatest, the greatest distinction between the wealthy and the not wealthy is the following: Are you an earner or are you an owner? And you wanna do everything you can, whether it's tax-free investment vehicles, getting the money out of your hands, auto- automatic investment every month. You have to get to be an owner, 'cause the thing about owning stock or houses or assets is they increase in value tax-deferred. What do I mean by that? If you make $100,000 a year, you're an asset increasing your wealth by $100,000, but you lose 30% of it in taxes. Whereas if your stocks go up $100,000, as long as you don't sell, there's no taxable event. Now, what should happen is that we need new laws such that when you borrow against your assets, it creates a taxable event on the, on the capital or the asset you're borrowing against. Because what effectively has happened is the owners are just pulling away from the earners. It's never sell your stock, let it keep going up, and borrow against it for your lifestyle needs, and then you can take additional capital and start investing in other things and diversifying. And we're gonna have... The last 20, 30 years in America, we've been obsessed with how to create wealth. Over the next 10 years, we're gonna have a very important conversation around what do you do and what is expected of wealth. [chuckles] Did that make any sense?
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, it did. Okay. But now what's gonna happen with his stock, see? I mean, because he... Let's assume he's not gonna be incapacitated or dead or, but he will borrow against it if he needs the money. I mean, how much money does he actually need if he wants to, say, fund presidential election, for example? Um-
- SGScott Galloway
He owns-- He's worth a trillion dollars.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
He can, he can go to J.P. Morgan and say, "Loan me $10 billion."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And they, they're not gonna ask him what he's doing with it, and he could literally overwhelm the airwaves and, and social media with his chosen candidates. Is the stock gonna go down? Uh, okay, let me just be clear. SpaceX trades at a price to sales ratio... Well, let's, let's do it the other way. Apple trades at 10 and a half times price to sales. Alphabet, 11. Tesla, 16. Nvidia, 39. By the way, all these companies are growing faster, except for Tesla, than SpaceX. Space- SpaceX trades at 131. Meta, an amazing company, trades at 7.3. Amazon trades at 3.7.
- KSKara Swisher
That's astonishing.
- SGScott Galloway
So-
- KSKara Swisher
Amazon, 3.7?
- SGScott Galloway
3.7.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my God.
- SGScott Galloway
3.7.
- KSKara Swisher
10 is usually the thing, right? 10 to 15, correct? 12.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, those are higher margin companies. Amazon's in a low margin business. I think, I think the, the only stock in all of these that I would buy right now is Amazon.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
Because what you get is, you get a distant number two to SpaceX with the core business-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... of their retail platform. And if you wanna talk about AI, the adjacent AI plays to go after industrial robots, of which Amazon has two and a half times the total amount of America.
- KSKara Swisher
If you're FedEx, you have to be worried too. Same thing. I mean-
- SGScott Galloway
If I could go, if I could go short any category right now, it would be a basket of the secondary AI players, and if I could go long any category, it would be, uh, GLP-1s. I don't know if you've seen what's coming out of the American Clinical-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Amazing
- SGScott Galloway
... Oncology, uh, Gathering, but they're now saying that metastatic cancers get cut in half, the growth rates-
- 46:27 – 58:47
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.
- SGScott Galloway
My win is, uh, tourists in the US, uh, for the World Cup.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
It's good.
- SGScott Galloway
I think international fans are leaving the World Cup raving about America, our food. I mean, it's just hilarious. "We love your Waffle House." I mean, it's just like-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
... the, it-
- KSKara Swisher
Boston and this tartan, the Tartan Army was delightful. Everything.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, what, what, what the world is finding out is that America at its core, distinctive p- uh, podcasters like us and, and Trump, America-
- KSKara Swisher
They like us, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
Americans are generous, interesting, wonderful people, and it's an amazing culture, and they're getting to see that, and then Americans are getting to see just how wonderful these nations are. And I-- like I said, I think the World Cup is doing what the UN i- initially envisioned it would do. I think it's bringing people together. These viral online videos show fans excited about American food, uh, our huge portions, Chipotle, Shake Shack, and many more. Visitors to, to NYC were able to be part of the legendary Knicks parade. The World Cup has attracted a projected ten million visitors. Airbnb searches in host cities jumped 80% year on year. Visitors are staying about 12 days, attending two matches, and spending over $400 a day on average. Uh, New York City's tourism chief, Julie Coker, likened the boost to hosting as many as eight Super Bowls in six weeks. I, I just think the World Cup, I think FIFA is one of the most corrupt organizations in sport, but I think the World Cup is just incredible.
- KSKara Swisher
It's the fans. It's the fans. It's the fans. They were just, the fans were delightful.
- SGScott Galloway
100%. But you see, you see people in Kansas welcoming, you know, these people from Norway. You see the Japanese. I, I, I just... I- it, it really is, I think we forget that generally speaking, these cultures are wonderful.
- KSKara Swisher
And we're not Trump.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Generally speaking, people wanna get along. Generally speaking, we're not that divided. We just have the most profitable companies in the world trying to divide us.
- KSKara Swisher
And we have a president who's trying to divide us. It just is.
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
Like, I mean, I think, you know what I'm struck by here is y- you get the feeling, and this is just being in France for a short time, is they really want to like us. Like, I know, you know what I mean? Like, I had so many Europeans, like, w- testing to see, "Oh, are you one of those people, Americans?" And you're not, and then they're, like, thrilled. To have you there, one. I have to say everyone's been really lovely everywhere we've gone. And I do think there's a backlash happening, Scott. I do. People are like-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm
- KSKara Swisher
... they're, uh, I'm tired of being angry at these fuckers. I'm like, "Let's just get rid of them. Let's just move along." And like, a- and you're right, the World Cup, I, I know you don't think as much as the Knicks, but I think the Knicks thing, like it's just, there's a feeling. I think you're absolutely right. I would agree with you. These-- and this is, these people want to like us. They want to like us in a lot of ways, so.
- SGScott Galloway
My fail, and this is indicative of, of social media, is that Polymarket is flooding social media with fake trading videos. Uh, there's a great... I think the Wall Street Journal is doing a great job. Uh, they did an analysis that found that Polymarket paid dozens of college-age creators to post videos of fake trades and fake wins on the platform. So one of the videos, for example, uh, shows a young man that, saying he won $100,000 on a bet that Trump would say McDonald's in public, but in reality, all of the econom- all, all of the accounts that made the bet, uh, lost money. And to make these clips-
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh, they're gross
- SGScott Galloway
... Polymarket built copies of its website and then told creators to make, quote, "trades" on those sites and hide that they were being paid by Polymarket.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh no. God, that's actually... Scammers.
- SGScott Galloway
So, uh, by the way, I feel I should disclose that at PropG Markets, we have a data partnership with Kalshi. Gambling and gaming for young men is really corrosive, and I still can't resolve what to do about it 'cause you don't wanna infantilize young people, and it's a tough one. But at a minimum, these companies shouldn't be posting fake social media posts that show someone winning when they didn't. It's just, it's preying on their worst instincts, and it's n- it's disingenuous.
- KSKara Swisher
You know, yeah, it's just, just do your business. If people wanna use it, you don't have to, like, trick people.
- SGScott Galloway
And these are great businesses, but Polymarket's audience is 70% male, and the most common age demographic is 25 to 34, so again, it's young men. And a plural-
- KSKara Swisher
It feels like those, like-
- SGScott Galloway
And guess this-
Episode duration: 58:47
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