EVERY SPOKEN WORD
130 min read · 26,081 words- 0:00 – 6:31
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
He's also got a lot of love for these leaders. He called the Syrian president "a young, attractive guy."
- KSKara Swisher
He's literally gonna say, "And he's a great kisser." And I'm expecting that to come out of his mouth.
- SGScott Galloway
(instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm a bit thrown off by that. What's...?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm in your studio.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, you're in my studio? Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
Do you see this? I'm here.
- KSKara Swisher
Hold on. Let me see. Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
Don't I look like you? Isn't this great?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my gosh.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Look at that.
- SGScott Galloway
Look at that. I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Wow. It's...
- SGScott Galloway
Except I have hair. Except I have a lot of...
- KSKara Swisher
It's, it's like that show Substance, I wanna be the hot young one in the unitard, though.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
I love that the only way Demi Moore gets an Oscar or a Golden Globe-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... is if there's a much hotter version of her prancing around in a leotard.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh.
- KSKara Swisher
That's the only way they were gonna give her an award.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, for, for those who are just listening through audio, uh, uh, although video is becoming a bigger thing for all podcasters, um, I am... My background is the same because I'm at Scott's, um, apartment in New York 'cause my son-
- KSKara Swisher
Are you going through my stuff again? You like-
- SGScott Galloway
Again.
- KSKara Swisher
... to do that, don't you?
- SGScott Galloway
No, I have Alex doing it this time.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- 6:31 – 16:52
Kara’s Mention at the Meta Trial
- SGScott Galloway
the FTC's key economic expert, Scott Hempel, came under attack from Meta's lead attorney for having pitched regulators on an antitrust probe of the company in 2019. The pitch deck, uh, for the probe that, apparently, uh, Hempel worked on, uh, sh- which was shown in court, included public comments about the company's, uh, aggressive acquisition strategy, and one was from Kara Swisher, which was only just recently. The headline projected me calling Mark Zuckerberg "a small little creature with a shriveled soul." Uh, he insulted Om Malik, all this thing. Um, I... It was just ridiculous. It was so ridiculous and really petty on the behalf of the, um, uh, uh, on behalf of, uh, Meta. And I, I heard from them, and, uh, they were... I don't think they loved it either. But they did it anyway, um, and their lawyer was inaccurate. They said I was a Vanity Fair columnist. I wrote two stories for Vanity Fair a decade ago. A decade ago. Anyway, just kind of shitty and obnoxious. But I think we have ano- have to have another insult for Mark if I... I called him a small little creature with a shriveled soul. Your thoughts on that, and do you have a different one to call Mark?
- KSKara Swisher
What a... Uh, I'm just curious. Give me a sense of what you think is happening in the case.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I don't know why they need to, like, rely on this, because I think they have a pr- relatively strong case.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, they're slamming the media. They're trying to say that they're victims of the media now.
- SGScott Galloway
Correct, or something. I don't even understand it, in that, you know, they're trying to show anybody who has any criticism for Facebook, which is e-... Um, they should receive a lot of criticism, um, is just mean, I guess. It's, it's typical plays into Mark's idea of himself as a victim. And I don't understand w-... I don't even understand why it's in here. And they called Om Malik, who... Let me just say, Om Malik was a pioneer in media entrepreneurship. They call him a failed blogger. Like, what? Like, why? And he's been... You know, both Om and I and all kinds of people, New York Times reporters, everyone who's covered Facebook for a very long time as beat reporters came to the same conclusion about this company differently, from different places. Um, even, you know, Steven Levy, uh, everybody. And I think it's really, um, uh, uh, really astonishing that they feel like attacking the media is the way to go here. I don't, I don't even, I don't even understand the strategy, I guess. But anyway...
- KSKara Swisher
Well, you know the difference between Mark Zuckerberg and my neighbor, Steve.
- SGScott Galloway
No.
- KSKara Swisher
Steve's not a cunt.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
And by the way, folks, before you fill my comments, accusing me of being a misogynist, I'm in London.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm in Britain. We're allowed to use that word here.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
And it has no reference to gender. It just means this person is a very unlikable-
- SGScott Galloway
It is.
- KSKara Swisher
... piece of shit.
- SGScott Galloway
That is-
- KSKara Swisher
Anyways.
- SGScott Galloway
I have a pair of socks with that on it just to know I was gonna leave some for you (laughs) . Now I'm certain I will.
- KSKara Swisher
I was literally saying in this profile, in the Financial Times-
- SGScott Galloway
Yes.
- KSKara Swisher
... it's appearing next week, that they were talking about our partnership which they're all, they're all obsessed with us. The... Or our partnership, I should say.
- SGScott Galloway
Our marriage.
- KSKara Swisher
And I said that one of the few nice things, and let's be honest, there's a lot of downside to this being a partner with you, but one of the few nice things is that I said I get to be irreverent, and there'll be an uncomfortable pause, and then, and I'm serious about this, when you laugh, it kinda gives everyone permission to laugh.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm. You've said that.
- KSKara Swisher
You know this case better than I do. What is your speculation here? What do you think is gonna happen?
- SGScott Galloway
I felt they have a relatively strong case, and I don't usually... I don't... I think they're... They definitely have done all kinds of, of monopolistic behaviors, and I think they control things. But I think in this case, um, things have changed, and I think the, the government took them far too long to do any regulation. And so I'm not so sure that they don't have competitors. They do have competitors. Although they dominate at the same time, you c-... It's not similar to Microsoft. To me, M- Microsoft truly dominated and there were not other alternatives. And the case of Facebook it is. I think at the time, they kind of... They always... Facebook always manages to do the sneakiest, shittiest thing back in the, especially back in the day that they could. And that's not illegal necessarily. It's just makes them, as you said, the word you used. Um, but, um, but I, I, I think... And they always make the choice that hurts people. They make the choice of, uh, not caring about consequences of the actions they take, they try to victim, advise themselves and blame all the critics as, when they have legitimate criticism. But it's a very strong case, and I think they're not conducting it very well here, and I think they're gonna lose. I do, for some reason. I think that the, the, the, the tide against billionaires and these powerful tech companies is still, despite Trump, is still on the side of, "What is wrong with these people?" And so I, I, I suspect it'll go to appeal. It'll... Like, this one's not as strong as some of the others, and, but some of the emails are pretty terrible.
- KSKara Swisher
See, I think this is pretty strong because if you look at the definition of antitrust as it relates to trying to reduce competition, you are not... I mean, it just couldn't be clearer with respect to acquisitions. You're not allowed to acquire a company to, um, for the purposes of reducing competition. And they literally have emails with Mark Zuckerberg and everyone else saying, "It's better to acquire than compete." I mean, it's almost as if they wanted to write a case study on what illegal antitrust acquisition is. Th- they're... I mean, if they don't, if they don't, if the FTC doesn't win on this one, that's it. Let's just stop all cases (laughs) because they, they, they literally, they are s-... If they had their hands around the throat of someone who had just died with their blood splattered all over them and they were screaming, "I killed this person!" and then they didn't go to jail, that's... If, if they're not found guilty of antitrust...... I mean, this defines antitrust.
- SGScott Galloway
I- it does, it does. I'm saying that the FTC's argument at the beginning was that Snapchat and MeWe was their competitor. I just feel like it- it's a be- it's a stronger case. Look, uh, uh, the Trump administration waged it, and then it was thrown back at the FTC, and Lina Khan improved it. That's absolutely true. I just feel like it's not... There's... Of all the different cases, whether it's Google, Google, it's like, to me, it's a slam dunk. The Apple one is very clear what's going on there. These emails, these... I think they call them hot emails or whatever, are really bad, are really bad. And so I think that's probably what's gonna do them in, because a lot of these companies before they get to be big, it's- I think it's called email hygiene. Like, they didn't have any. You- you can see what they think of what they're doing. And, you know, I think the testimony of Kevin Systrom wasn't great for them. Um, I suspect they've got people lined up around the block for that kind of stuff, if they're doing it. I- um, we have to see how it unfolds. I, I think they're gonna lose this, even though it's... Of all the cases, it's not the strongest, despite the emails. So we'll see. In any case, stop attacking the media. We're not the problem.
- KSKara Swisher
And this is the thing about... There's this general gestalt in America where anything you do around antitrust is bad for the economy. If they were forced to spin Instagram, shareholders win. Insta- uh, think about how many people would want to own a pure play Instagram.
- 16:52 – 26:18
Apple Raising iPhone Prices?
- SGScott Galloway
move on. Apple is considering increasing iPhone prices this fall without blaming tariffs, instead attributing price hike to new designs and features. But while the US and China agreed to suspend most tariffs against each other, the 20% Trump tariff imposed on Chinese goods at the start of his second term is still in place and covers smartphones. Apple built up inventory and shifted some manufacturing, as we've talked about, to India in preparation for tariffs. But the company's most profitable and high-end phones are still mostly handled by Chinese factories. Um, new iPhones will include... I keep saying that to people. They're not, they haven't successfully moved these operations, although they've been moving in that direction. New iPhones will include some design and format changes, including an ultra-thin design. Uh, you know, they're trying to, still pl- trying to play up to Trump. Um, they're not gonna, they're not gonna blame it on tariffs. But, uh, m- consumers will feel that it's Trump's fault, might- presumably, but maybe not.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, we... Uh, I mean, essentially, you have the largest yard sale in history with so much import and export business and so much, uh... I mean, the US is the largest economy in the world, and so much of it now is up for grabs because of what's happened over the last 100 days, whether it's this tariff nonsense or people not trusting, um, trying to figure out a way to not, to do as l- to do less business with America versus more. And one of the big winners... There's a lot of winners here.... uh, one of the winners is, uh, India. And that is, Trump is making India great again. And that is, people are saying, "Okay, America seems to have, or the Trump administration seems to... The relationship with China is very adversarial and creates interruptions or lack of consistency or dependabili- dependability on the supply chain." So Trump was claiming it was gonna bring manufacturing back to America, now it's bringing manufacturing to India. And it's, it's, I guess, Indian, Inda- uh, Indian manufacturing for iPhones is five to 10% more expensive, so you will see a bump in prices. Um, the pr- uh, I mean, the problem is, if you wanna talk about, uh, how this hurts people, or companies in little ways, Apple really does need to innovate right now. I would argue that Apple's product line is a little bit stale. I was excited about Apple Intelligence, but I don't really see how it's doing anything that interesting. The mixed-reality headset was a total thud. The, they really haven't... I don't, I would argue they really haven't innovated since the AirPods, which I think is the most underrated.
- SGScott Galloway
The Watch.
- KSKara Swisher
I think the Apple Watch is essentially them throwing so much capital at it that, that it's, it... Uh, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a huge fan of the Apple Watch, but I think you-
- SGScott Galloway
I am.
- KSKara Swisher
... you, you're, you could argue that it's hard not to, hard not to call it a success. Actually, there's more Apple Watches sold than the entire US-
- SGScott Galloway
Swiss watch.
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, entire Swiss watch industry. But they need a refresh. But where I'm headed with this is the following, is that instead of focusing on innovation, instead of having their most important people focused on design or new products, they're focused on trying to figure out a way to get the largest, most complex supply chain out of China and into somewhere else, or India, as opposed to being able to focus on the next generation of products which grow their shareholder base, grow the US economy. The, the, the primary cause of all of this nonsense and all of this chaos, and a lack of regard for, a lack of understanding for how business is actually done, is just, it, it's basically like giving, giving, um, American business high blood pressure, and that is they're more prone to opportunistic infection or to disease. It's just weakening the business corpus of the US because you have a guy like... I mean, can you imagine how much time Tim Cook has to spend on trying to figure out a way to move his supply chain out of China to India as opposed to trying to figure out what the next thing in technology is?
- SGScott Galloway
And what to say about Trump, right? This is not something they had to do. This is... Every minute that it takes from the executives not focusing on product is always a bad minute, right?
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, that's-
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
What would you make, though? What would you... What?
- KSKara Swisher
I (sighs) so, uh, I, I still go back to I think there was an enormous opportunity. I think, I, I mean, easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but I think Apple should have early on acquired BYD-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... assuming that China hadn't been-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, the cars, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, I, I think that essentially the waiting list for an Apple car would be the most valuable list ever aggregated in history.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Because the logo-
- SGScott Galloway
I'd buy one.
- KSKara Swisher
... and the self-expressive benefit of Apple is so incredibly strong.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
That, uh... And granted, no one knew BYD was gonna be the monster it is, but given the fact they have such incredible supply chain in China, given the fact that they have, um, such a good relationship with Xi. If, if things had been... if the temperature had been lower, imagine if Apple had gotten to kind of letter L with a company like BYD and produced a really elegant, cool little car for $11,000.
- SGScott Galloway
And they could have made it in-
- KSKara Swisher
How many of those would have sold?
- SGScott Galloway
... America.
- KSKara Swisher
How many-
- SGScott Galloway
They could have done it. You're right. They, they, they didn't-
- KSKara Swisher
The iAuto? Can you imagine the iCar, the iAuto?
- 26:18 – 36:41
Max No More
- SGScott Galloway
no one says anything, let's say something about this. Streaming service Max will now return to being called HBO Max. This coming, of course, yet again, we called it.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, God! Literally, I've had it. I have had it, Kara.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, so has the, so has the threat, the, the, the social media arm of, of, uh, of the company 'cause they were making fun of themselves. Let's listen to a clip of you talking about David Zaslav's decision to change the name right here on Pivot back in 2023.
- KSKara Swisher
If you had $10 billion and you tried to recreate a brand like HBO, you probably couldn't do it. It'd be one in 10 chance you could do it. So he's taken tens of billions of dollars, or at least billions in equity, and he's taken it into the street and created a fire to warm his ego. But this is, this will go down as one of the great brand disasters.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, so now it's called HBO Max, the streaming service. The change marks the fourth name change for the service in a decade. Um, l- it was called HBO Now, there was Max, there's HBO, there's HBO Max. And again, the, the, this service, the, the, the company's social media things are making fun of it too, in a really kind of vicious way, um, how dumb this is, um, and how difficult it is, and they call it rebranding, debranding. Uh, I, uh, uh, Scott, uh, let me tell you, let me give you my, um... I don't have a perspective because I have a contract with CNN and, uh, I am making a, uh, uh, a documentary that probably will be on this whatever the fuck it's gonna be called, um, but that's my disclosure. But I find this, like, perplexing. I always liked HBO Max myself. Thoughts, brand expert.
- KSKara Swisher
This was probably the strongest, one of the strongest brands in the arts or in media.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
It's just, uh, anything... What is a brand? A brand gives you unearned margin, and in this case, HBO gave you, or the HBO brand gave unearned trial. Almost anything that comes on HBO-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... you're more willing to trial.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
And the reason why is that, to the credit of HBO, the culture they have been able to create there such that they attract the best and brightest in the industry means that they basically can go toe to toe with Netflix on, no exaggeration, one seventh of the content budget.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
Netflix spends 18 billion, HBO spends two and a half, and yet if you see two people at the, quote unquote, "proverbial water cooler" talking about-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... a zeitgeist cultural moment-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... and you had to bet what streaming platform that cultural moment is taking place on, the best bet is HBO.
- SGScott Galloway
It is, although it, it's increasingly Netflix, right? Did you see that show on Netflix?
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, it's seven times the c-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
HBO defines what it means to have an amazing brand that creates a culture that results in a company that can-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... punch above its weight class.
- SGScott Galloway
Yes, agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
It is so artisanal, it's the LVMH, it's n- it just doesn't have the capital of a Netflix.
- SGScott Galloway
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
But I mean, talk about, you know, uh, uh, The Last of Us, Succession-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... Game of Thrones-
- 36:41 – 38:15
Fox To Launch Streamer
- SGScott Galloway
speaking of streaming very briefly, Foxcorp will also launch its streaming service (laughs) not quite as fancy, called FOX 1 ... I actually kind of like the name ... ahead of, uh, the NFL season later this year. They're gonna jam a bunch of crap in there and they're, they have their own streaming service. So, again, I think people will pay for Fox. They had another thing, Fox+ or whatever they had, where they had all that Tucker Carlson nonsense.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I mean f- uh, first off, just when I typed in, just back to the last story on Fox, they just announced their, their first show.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
It's called I'm Not Racist, But ...
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Oh, come on.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyways, um-
- SGScott Galloway
What? (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. (laughs) .
- SGScott Galloway
That's a good show. Like, I believed you.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm Not Racist, But ... (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I ... Is that a real show? No.
- KSKara Swisher
No. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
No.
- KSKara Swisher
I love that you believe that.
- SGScott Galloway
But I believed you. See?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I believed you. I was like, "Huh, I could see them doing that." Anyway, there's lots of streaming services launching. Um, what do you think about Fox's chances?
- KSKara Swisher
I, I think there's a market for it.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
I'd go-
- SGScott Galloway
I agree.
- KSKara Swisher
... I'd just go fucking crazy. Like, I'd have Laura Loomer. I would just go full conspiracy weirdo. (laughs) I mean-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... I'd go, "Okay, those of you who are really crazy gotta tune in here."
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I'd go nuts.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I'd go ...
- SGScott Galloway
Well, legal liability, though. You have to be ver- ... You can't, like ... They've, they've been da- ... They're still in the middle of a lawsuit.
- KSKara Swisher
Claim it's an online platform.
- 38:15 – 48:05
Trump’s Middle East Trip
- SGScott Galloway
Scott, we're back. President Trump is on a whirlwind tour of the Middle East. It's just, it's uh ... I don't even wanna talk about it. I'm so tired of looking at him. Where he's been busy with all sorts of wheeling and dealing. He attended a lunch in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday with a gaggle of US business leaders, including the CEOs of Amazon, OpenAI, NVIDIA, and Uber, and of course, Elon was there, all with their hands out with, to the Saudis. Some of the deals Trump has touted in the last few days, a $600 billion commitment from Saudi Arabia to invest in the US. The real number's reportedly much lower. Um, uh, Qatar Airways is buying as many as 210 Boeing jets. NVIDIA is selling chips to an AI startup, uh, backed by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund. Um, news of the deal sent NVIDIA's market cap back, uh, it had been declining, to above 3 trillion. And in a major foreign policy shift, Trump said he's lifting sanctions on Syria, and he met with the country's new president, the first US-Syria, uh, leader meeting in 25 years. Um, couple things. Um, th- there was that lunch, in, in addition to NVIDIA, AMD, and Amazon also struck deals with a Saudi Arabian AI startup. Trump seems to be using US AI technology and chips as leverage for a lot of these deals. Um, uh, not, not the stupidest thing in the world, um, but people are worried we risk losing the upper hand on AI if we're sharing them. OpenAI is reportedly considering building data centers in U- uh, uh, UAE. We're gonna talk about the di- diplomacy part in a minute, but how do you think about the business part and, uh, what h- what he's doing here? A lot of, like, jazz hands all over the place.
- KSKara Swisher
I, I think it makes sense. This, uh, uh, there's been US delegations led by the president to go overseas-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, for, for decades. But what they usually have is they have a broader ... Campaign contributions aren't the litmus test. It's great American companies, and also, they always make sure that the Chamber of Commerce and the Small Business Association is represented such that at least they're, there's the illusion they're trying to sell America, as opposed to trying (laughs) to sell the people who've been really good to them. And I, I don't ... Or good to the president. I think it's, I think something like this makes sense. Uh, AI is big. He's, he's leveraging it. I think they're being smart about this. That's the good side of this. The thing that's really scary and corrupt Is it all right? He's in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia wants s- uh, technology to build a civilian nuclear plant. They want AI. And what do you know? They announced a giant Trump Tower in Jeddah. You just shouldn't be mixing the two. In Qatar, uh, Eric beat him there, or was there before him, and announced a multi-billion dollar golf course and resort. And Qatar is, uh, giving the president a $400 million plane. And this is especially upsetting for me, for someone who thinks a lot about Israel and the fact that there are still 50-plus hostages that have been held for 500-plus days. I've always said, "If you wanna get the (laughs) hostages out, follow the money, put pressure on Qatar." How much pressure can the president bring to bear on Qatar when they are talking about, um, when, when they are talking about d- doing golf course developments en- enriching the family by billions of dollars? How, how honest and how, how, how much can geopolitical interests of the US be pure and unfettered around us and our allies when they are saying to the son, "We'll give you a billion dollars for development here." And by the way, in Qatar, it's not a private company doing it with Eric and Don. It's a division of the Qatari government that is in this real estate deal. And then let's keep traveling to the UAE, where they want American, uh, AI chips. And the reason we don't wanna give them to the AI and haven't to date is we are worried that because China, which represents three times the level of import business in terms of oil ... In other words, the UAE economically is more dependent upon ... Or it's Saudi Arabia, excuse me, but the UAE is actually a bigger trading partner with China. We don't wanna give them these chips 'cause they're worried about leaking that sensitive information to China. But what do you know? The UAE has announced that they are going to invest in World Financial Liberty's stablecoin. Uh, uh, this is just all ... Folks, our interests are not being represented.
- SGScott Galloway
No, the Trump family's-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
... interests are. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
(sighs) So, I, uh, I-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... like the fact he's sitting down. I think Syria's a big ... I think for us to establish to kind of take the real politic of-... (laughs) of dealing with, with the new leaders here right now, I realize that has a lot of weirdness to it. I think it's, I would, uh, I think it's a really smart idea to try and figure out a way to at least have an informal peace or ally or understanding, and this is the time to cut the deal. And to put a cudgel or a wedge in between Syria and Russia right now is a big opportunity.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. So let's talk about, (clears throat) the diplomacy angle of this trip. Trump is clearly enjoying all the pomp and pageantry. He loves walking by a bunch of soldiers in fancy gold stuff. Um, but he's also got a lo- love for these leaders. He called the Syrian president "a young, attractive guy." He's so much on looks, it's so strange, especially with men. He said Qatar's emir was "a very special guy." In talking about the Saudi Crown Prince, Trump said, "I like him too much," which is interesting to say about someone who sawed someone up in pieces.
- KSKara Swisher
He's literally gonna say, "And he's a great kisser."
- SGScott Galloway
Great, great kisser. I know.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm expecting that to come out of his mouth.
- SGScott Galloway
It sounds like he might be leaving Melania for one of these guys. I, just, his, way he talks about men. He talks about women in a grotesque way, sort of like, "Nice boobs." But men is very strange, like, it's not just funny, he does it all the friggin' time. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
I kind of like that about him. I think most people think that way.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't know. I don't know.
- KSKara Swisher
I think we're very looksist as a species.
- SGScott Galloway
You do, you do. You're right, you're right. In addition to lifting these sanctions on Syria, he also said he's open to negotiating with Iran, saying there are no permanent enemies. That was a r- kind of an interesting thing, 'cause most of the Republican establishment have ... They, they did a really interesting go back five years with, like, Rubio, et cetera. There are permanent enemies, right? Like, whether it's-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... North Korea. Trump has, this is, this is consistent. Trump is consistently, "I'll do a deal with anybody," kind of guy. Um, so his, the, this one, I think, is correct. There are no permanent enemies. But it's a really interesting effort on his part to be like, "Whatever the deal is, I'll do the deal," and, "You're an attractive man." That kind of thing. Uh, uh, I don't know.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, it goes back to values. With, uh, with respect to Iran, I think it's different. I think you go into Syria, there's a huge opportunity for us. And I would argue there's probably a decent amount of public support after what the populous endured from the kind of depraved, violent reign of Bashar al-Assad.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
When it comes to Iran, I think the smartest thing we can do is, quite frankly, just to try and undermind the Islamic repolic- uh, republic, and we do. America does have, or at least pretends to have, values about being concerned about the general population and being focused on rights, women's rights around the world. And the one place, I think, that we have an opportunity is that the Islamic republic does not have a great deal of support, uh, uh, from the Iranian-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
... people. And as someone who grew up with Iranians in LA, I've always thought, Iranian, Iranians are more American than Americans. That we should be great allies with Iran, because when you, they're, uh, really into education, really into capitalism. Uh, you know, I think Iran is just a huge missed opportunity for us, um, and when you meet, especially some of the, like ... In, ugh ... You wanna talk about the benefits of immigration? We had, we got so many outstanding people, uh, after the revolution who immigrated to the US. So many great doctors, scientists, businesspeople. One of my mentors, a guy named Hamid Moghaddam, who runs, uh, the largest REIT in America, Prologis, came here after the revolution. I mean, we got such incredible human talent, and it's a shame that this, this, uh, in my opinion, backward, primitive, oppressive government, uh, is unfortunately through, kind of, kind of a reign of terror, um, is the leadership of Iran. So I think we should kind of take the Reaganesque approach, and that is we have absolutely no quarrel with the Iranian people, but the leadership and the governing body there is not good for the ir- uh, the, you know, the Iranian people or for the world. Um, and, and, and we have a tendency to group all of the Gulf's Americans into one group of people. They are much different. The Saudis do not have any love lost with Iran. So this is, but this is a place, you wanna talk about the need for someone really fucking smart and an incredible team that is solely based on competence, not whether Eric is selling golf courses, it's the Gulf. Between economic opportunities, between a flashpoint of potential violence or wars that could erupt and destabilize the world, we've got to be really honest and really smart and not be seen as fucking whores-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, exactly. You know, one of the interest-
- KSKara Swisher
... over there collecting planes and golf courses.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. One of the interesting things is this, this beef between, um, Business Insider, uh, which is owned by Axel Springer, and, uh, they wrote a piece about how Don Jr.'s, like, makes Hunter Biden blush, essentially. And of course, they're going after the, just a really minor story by a very good reporter, by the way, Bethany McYlain, um, and they're putting pressure. The, the, they don't wanna, they will not take any criticism over what is clearly grift. Like, grift, grift, grift, grift. Sorry, Don. You, this, uh, that story-
- KSKara Swisher
I don't think it's the grift that bothers them. I think it's, uh, they, I think they're, it's associating, I think, I think it's the association or the implication that, that Don has a drug problem. I, I think they're fine with-
- 48:05 – 54:11
RFK Jr.’s Busy (and Bizarre) Week
- SGScott Galloway
swim. Scott, we're back with more news. Health and Human Services Secretary, RFK Jr., had quite a week. First off, let's listen to a clip of him answering questions before a House, uh, committee.
- NANarrator
I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from me.
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
That sort of says it. He also said his opinions on vaccines are irrelevant, and thank goodness he's not, uh, prompting people to take his advice because he recently posted a photo of himself and his grandchildren swimming in Rock Creek, which is closed to swimming because it's used for sewer runoff, E. coli. Um, he did look good, like, he's in good shape. But it was pretty, like, astonishing that he's w- I was sort of like, "Whoa, I won't even go in there with, like, rubber boots," essentially. Um, he really seems, uh-... out of it, in some ways. But he seems to be just plodding on and, and cutting things that are critically important for kids especially, uh, and safety of all of us. But, uh, any thoughts on RFK and his swim?
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, I think that's noise. Uh, if, whatever, the bare things, it's noise. The, the key to your story and what we should, in my opinion, be zeroing in on, 'cause it's more substantive that the head of one of the biggest agencies and who sets the tone for where we allocate resources to try and keep America healthy, him claiming that he doesn't give medical advice is such a, just an outrageous lie. He has been one of the strongest anti-vaccine advocates. That is medical advice. He has written a book, The Real Anthony Fauci, a book, a best-selling book, Kenny- Kennedy offered medical perspective contradicting mainstream public health guidance. He's promoted alternatives to COVID-19 treatments, medical advice. He's made, uh, th- I think it's called thimerosal claims, for years Kennedy has advised people to avoid vaccines containing thimerosal. That is medical advice. EMF health claims, Kennedy has suggested electromagnetic fields from wireless technology pose serious health risks. That is medical advice. Discussions about his own medical conditions, talking about measles and rubella, claims about medical conditions in children. He gives more fucking medical advice than the surgeon general.
- SGScott Galloway
And he presides over a medical organization, that's the thing. The, I, I think he's saying, "I don't think people should be taking medical advice from me," which is such, it's so disingenuous, is what you're saying, essentially.
- KSKara Swisher
He, he realizes what he has said.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
This guy is literally the best friends, the best friend measles and rubella ever had.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
Right?
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
They're like, "Oh my God, we're back."
- SGScott Galloway
Right. (laughs) Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Right?
- SGScott Galloway
"Hey."
- KSKara Swisher
"We thought we were out of business, but this guy wants to put us back on a global tour."
- SGScott Galloway
Right.
- KSKara Swisher
He wants to, you know, first stop Texas and really crazy conservative places, "We're back for a limited time only. Oh, maybe it's gonna be an extended time bringing you, you know, this, this band from the '50s and '60s, measles and rubella." It, this guy is so... And the problem is he's very handsome, he's very compelling. He is very good on some issues, on the environment, in my opinion, on Israel. He's powerful, you wanna like him. And this guy is so fucked up in the head and dangerous when it comes to medical advice and vaccines, and this is the guy figuring out where we're gonna allocate resources. He's fired so many really good thoughtful people who save lives. And again, it's just death by 1,000 cuts. There's gonna be kids, there's gonna be more, more death, disease, and disability because this guy is in office. And for him to say, uh, uh, "You shouldn't take medical..." He's trying to backtrack 'cause some of the shit he has said lately, "There was no diabetes when I was a kid." He is constantly spewing misinformation.
- SGScott Galloway
Can I, can I just point out the, the stream thing? I know it's a distraction, but it's not actually, because it shows the same kind of lack of care. I mean, like if even one person goes in that stream, like he's in there with children, it's poop, it's E. coli, it's shit. He, he's saying something rather disturbing. And he, look, he can do whatever he wants. If he wants to swim in shit, good luck, Robert. I can't believe he continues to survive, but all, with all the stuff he does. But, um, I, I think it is important that he's doing that. Like here's the head of the Health and Human Services swimming in a sewer and saying, "Hey, I'm having fun." I just, I don't think it's a distraction. I think it says exactly what you're saying here.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyways, I, I'm, I, I think that there's a lot of people, you know, Secretary Hagseth puts us in the most immediate danger because incompetence overseeing the largest military in the world is just dangerous on a short term basis. But over the medium and the long-term, more death, disease, and disability, unnecessary death, disease, and disability, will be spread by RFK Jr. And I don't say that lightly. I, that is a terrible thing to say about someone, and I think there's a lot of evidence backing that statement up.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I would agree. As you said before, uh, planes were not having all these near misses when, when Pete Buttigieg was in there. Um, airline, uh, things weren't falling off of aircraft carriers when Pete Hag, when, b- before Pete Hagseth and stuff like that. And, and in this case, I agree, it's a long-term danger, especially with the decimation of science. Um, and everything he does is always either performative, grotesque, and always dangerous for people's health, and to, for, uh, just he's- he's really one of the more dangerous of, of the-
- KSKara Swisher
And this whole make America healthy again-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... is such a fucking distraction.
- SGScott Galloway
It is. I agree.
- KSKara Swisher
Although I, granted, no doubt-
- SGScott Galloway
Sugar.
- KSKara Swisher
... no doubt we need to look at our food supply and sugar. No doubt.
- SGScott Galloway
It's hard to find sugar in Scott's apartment, everybody, just so you know.
- 54:11 – 1:01:42
Predictions
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, um...
- SGScott Galloway
Oh (laughs) yeah, that.
- KSKara Swisher
The, well, first off, while I would enjoy... I'm all down, I think the American public should be down with him getting that 747 on one condition. They paint along the side of it, it says, "Qatar's bitch."
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. (laughs) That's-
- KSKara Swisher
I think that, I think that, that would be the trade.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
But anyways, being serious-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... my prediction's the following. The plane's not gonna happen, Kara.
- SGScott Galloway
No.
- KSKara Swisher
These people, they're so amateur, and I've been saying for a while they're so good at the grift. They got this grift wrong because here's the thing.... the NSA, the CIA, uh, the Secret Service who's charged with the president's safety are gonna say, "You realize a very small amount of C2 explosive could be put anywhere on this plane that has the-"
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
"... wiring of, you know, a hospital complex. And if they at some point decided (laughs) they didn't like who was on the plane, including you... So in order for this plane to live up to vet security standards-"
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
"... and protocols, they would have to disassemble it and reassemble it. He can't take this plane. Not because he's not a criminal, not because he doesn't want it, not because they're not willing to give it. But his security apparatus is gonna sit down with him and say, 'We need to have an adult conversation with you. You can't have a foreign government giving you a piece of technology that you're flying in at 40,000 feet. We can't ensure your safety. And the only way we'd be able to do that is to take the thing down to a series of 48,000 parts and then put it back together again.'" Do you remember? It reminds me of... Do you remember when we let the Russians build our embassy in Moscow?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I rem- or... We... Yes, that's right.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
It was full of, like, listening devices.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Like, they would just literally... They would start hammering pieces of the wall and they'd find listening (laughs) devices everywhere.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, everywhere, like in-
- KSKara Swisher
And then finally-
- SGScott Galloway
... the concrete. Yeah, that's right.
- KSKara Swisher
Finally, they said, "There's no way-"
- SGScott Galloway
And just tore it down.
- KSKara Swisher
"There's no way-"
- SGScott Galloway
Tore it down.
- KSKara Swisher
"... we can make this thing ever secure."
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
So they said, "Just demolish the thing."
Episode duration: 1:01:42
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