Trump’s Deal-a-Palooza in the Middle East | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 He's also got a lot of love for these leaders. He called the Syrian president "a young, attractive guy."

Kara Swisher 0:04 He's literally gonna say, "And he's a great kisser." And I'm expecting that to come out of his mouth.

Scott Galloway 0:07 (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:18 I'm a bit thrown off by that. What's...?

Scott Galloway 0:20 I'm in your studio.

Kara Swisher 0:21 Oh, you're in my studio? Oh.

Scott Galloway 0:22 Do you see this? I'm here.

Kara Swisher 0:23 Hold on. Let me see. Oh.

Scott Galloway 0:25 Don't I look like you? Isn't this great?

Kara Swisher 0:26 Oh my gosh.

Scott Galloway 0:27 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:27 Look at that.

Scott Galloway 0:28 Look at that. I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:30 Wow. It's...

Scott Galloway 0:30 Except I have hair. Except I have a lot of...

Kara Swisher 0:32 It's, it's like that show Substance, I wanna be the hot young one in the unitard, though.

Scott Galloway 0:35 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:37 I love that the only way Demi Moore gets an Oscar or a Golden Globe-

Scott Galloway 0:40 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:40 ... is if there's a much hotter version of her prancing around in a leotard.

Scott Galloway 0:43 Oh.

Kara Swisher 0:43 That's the only way they were gonna give her an award.

Scott Galloway 0:46 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:47 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:47 Well, for, for those who are just listening through audio, uh, uh, although video is becoming a bigger thing for all podcasters, um, I am... My background is the same because I'm at Scott's, um, apartment in New York 'cause my son-

Kara Swisher 0:58 Are you going through my stuff again? You like-

Scott Galloway 1:00 Again.

Kara Swisher 1:00 ... to do that, don't you?

Scott Galloway 1:01 No, I have Alex doing it this time.

Kara Swisher 1:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03 Um, my son, Louie, has gra- graduated, uh, college. Well, it's a, it's a long graduation process here at NYU, but there was a smaller graduation yesterday and there's a big one today-

Kara Swisher 1:14 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:14 ... um, at Yankee Stadium. And, uh, Scott has so kindly let me use his apartment for the invasion of the Swishers, uh, for Louie's graduation. And so I'm here in your studio, which is lovely.

Kara Swisher 1:25 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:25 And I have been going through your things and, you know-

Kara Swisher 1:27 And, and, uh-

Scott Galloway 1:28 ... deciding what to keep.

Kara Swisher 1:28 ... in unrelated news, do not open the guest room closet. If it smells funny, it's definitely not Patrick, my male or score, escort-

Scott Galloway 1:35 (laughs) Okay.

Kara Swisher 1:35 ... that wanted 80 bucks instead of 70, and I had to take care of it. You know, it was a little too much meth. Just don't, just don't-

Scott Galloway 1:42 I will not.

Kara Swisher 1:42 ... open the closet-

Scott Galloway 1:42 I will not.

Kara Swisher 1:43 ... in the guest room.

Scott Galloway 1:44 Anyway, it's very generous of you to use. I'm trying to pay you a compliment. Scott and I did see each other this week when I came into New York.

Kara Swisher 1:50 We did.

Scott Galloway 1:51 Even though he protested and said he didn't wanna see me, he and I did hang out one lovely evening after-

Kara Swisher 1:55 You went to the Webbys, and I'm like, like... (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:57 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:58 "I'm gonna stay at home and, and watch, watch Friends and Neighbors." Um...

Scott Galloway 2:01 Well, I had to give an award to Fei-Fei Li, Dr. Fei-Fei Li, who was one of the very early AI pioneers, uh, at the Webbys. And then I ran over to the San Vicente Bungalows where Scott was at the bar. It was such a picture of you sitting at the bar there. Like...

Kara Swisher 2:15 Sitting at the bar alone, right?

Scott Galloway 2:16 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 2:16 My favorite thing.

Scott Galloway 2:16 It was nice to see you.

Kara Swisher 2:18 Thank you. Thank you for saying that. It's good to see you. I, I literally... Like, once a year, I really wanna sit down with you.

Scott Galloway 2:23 Yeah, once a year. (laughs) Okay. Anyway, we had a great time.

Kara Swisher 2:26 At least once a year.

Scott Galloway 2:28 I had a great time. It was nice to see you in person.

Kara Swisher 2:30 It's good to see you. And congratulations to Louie.

Scott Galloway 2:32 Yes.

Kara Swisher 2:32 I left him a gift in the refrigerator.

Scott Galloway 2:34 You did. He was very touched by it. He was very, he's very... It's been... It was a great day, I have to say. Uh, NYU-

Kara Swisher 2:41 Pictures were wonderful.

Scott Galloway 2:41 ... puts on a lovely graduation situation. I...

Kara Swisher 2:44 Yeah, they do a good job.

Scott Galloway 2:45 Yeah, we did it-

Kara Swisher 2:46 It's New York.

Scott Galloway 2:46 ... at the Secureball.

Kara Swisher 2:47 We know how to throw a party, right?

Scott Galloway 2:47 What?

Kara Swisher 2:48 We kn- It's New York. We know how to throw a party.

Scott Galloway 2:50 Y- you do.

Kara Swisher 2:50 Uh, their pictures are great. I love the pictures of you in Washington Square and...

Scott Galloway 2:52 Yeah, the best part was they did it in the Secureball Center. They, they... What they do is they break up all the colleges and they go to Radio City Music Hall or various places, and then they have a ma- a main one at Yankee Stadium. But the smaller ones are really the lovely ones. And Louie's cl- group, uh, the Global Studies group, um, did it at Secureball Center, and then they got to walk out of... Which is right across the street from Washington Square Park. And then Alex was here too, and he's really enjoying it. He likes to...

Kara Swisher 3:17 And by the way, he's still growing. I saw a picture of you...

Scott Galloway 3:20 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:20 Literally, uh, y- you, of course, decided to send me a video of him explaining my one piece of art to me.

Scott Galloway 3:26 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:27 And he, he looks like he's dropping his four-year-old off at preschool-

Scott Galloway 3:30 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:30 ... talking to his mother. And I'm not kidding, I think he's still growing.

Scott Galloway 3:34 I don't know what's going on. He's a big guy.

Kara Swisher 3:36 I think he's still growing. He's getting, he's get-... The kid is enormous.

Scott Galloway 3:40 He's not Barron Trump-level enormous, but he's big. He's a big kid.

Kara Swisher 3:43 No, but he's much buffer.

Scott Galloway 3:44 Yeah, he's very buff.

Kara Swisher 3:45 He looks like... Uh, that guy, he's...

Scott Galloway 3:48 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:48 I- I've decided he's the ultimate... If I ever get really, really rich-

Scott Galloway 3:52 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:52 ... he's gonna be my bodyguard 'cause he's the kinda guy that, like, could-

Scott Galloway 3:55 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:56 ... I don't know, figure out... Do your, do your taxes and-

Scott Galloway 3:59 Drones.

Kara Swisher 4:00 ... and... Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:00 He'd figure out the drone.

Kara Swisher 4:02 I think, uh, for... I think Louie should study, um, uh, female biology and study a broad or two.

Scott Galloway 4:10 Mm-hmm. Oh my God. Okay.

Kara Swisher 4:12 Study a broad.

Scott Galloway 4:12 We're moving on from this now.

Kara Swisher 4:13 Yeah, study a broad.

Scott Galloway 4:14 Yeah. Yeah. How... Are you glad-

Kara Swisher 4:15 Uh...

Scott Galloway 4:15 ... to be back in London?

Kara Swisher 4:17 Yeah, it's been beautiful here the last few days. And I just did, um, I just did a profile or they did a pr- the FT is doing a profile on me.

Scott Galloway 4:26 Oh. That's cool.

Kara Swisher 4:27 And of course, they always ask like, "How did you meet Kara Swisher?"

Scott Galloway 4:29 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 4:29 I'm like, "Oh God, here we go. Here we go."

Scott Galloway 4:32 You say it in a, like, in a-

Kara Swisher 4:34 Here we go.

Scott Galloway 4:34 ... in a, in a whorehouse in Ibiza or something.

Kara Swisher 4:36 There we go. Uh...

Scott Galloway 4:37 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 4:39 And, uh-

Scott Galloway 4:39 I dare you.

Kara Swisher 4:39 ... I think, uh, I think an, uh, a profile in the FT, I think that is somewhat equivalent to being knighted.

Scott Galloway 4:45 All right. That's nice.

Kara Swisher 4:46 I think it's pretty close.

Scott Galloway 4:47 You're in the pink...

Kara Swisher 4:47 I've always-

Scott Galloway 4:47 You love that pink bitch. What do you call it? The pink...

Kara Swisher 4:51 Oh, that salmon bitch.

Scott Galloway 4:53 Salmon bitch. (laughs) You called it this.

Kara Swisher 4:54 Yeah. It's ultimate self-expressive benefit. I saw the paper delivered and I put it under my arm when I go to breakfast at the Crosby 'cause I think it makes me look more like euro and smart.

Scott Galloway 5:01 Oh, okay. All right.

Kara Swisher 5:01 I don't actually read it, but it's like, it's like a purse for me. I think it just makes me look cooler.

Scott Galloway 5:05 It's a purse. Interesting.

Kara Swisher 5:06 But I wanna buy a lordship. Specifically, I wanna be Prince, and then I'm gonna change my name to Shamu, and I'll be Shamu, Prince of Whales.

Scott Galloway 5:14 Oh my God.

Kara Swisher 5:15 Never gets old.

Scott Galloway 5:16 I don't think it's that hard to buy yourself a sir or a lord or whatever. I think we should try to go for it, that you get one. I think that would be fun.

Kara Swisher 5:23 Oh, 100%.

Scott Galloway 5:24 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 5:24 Yeah, well, I am-

Scott Galloway 5:24 But I think you should be Lady.

Kara Swisher 5:25 ... in the FT now.

Scott Galloway 5:26 Lady Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 5:28 Well, I wanted, I wanted Charles and Diana to adopt me, and I was gonna change my name to Up, so we'd be Upchuck and Di. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:37 Oh. Oh my God.

Kara Swisher 5:38 I'm on a roll.

Scott Galloway 5:38 What is with you?

Narrator 5:39 Like, uh...

Kara Swisher 5:39 I'm on a roll.

Scott Galloway 5:40 You're not on-

Kara Swisher 5:40 I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Scott Galloway 5:42 No, you're not on... Anyway, uh, the Swisher-

Kara Swisher 5:44 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:44 ... family extends its thanks to the Galloways.

Kara Swisher 5:46 You're very welcome. I'm glad you guys-

Scott Galloway 5:47 Yes.

Kara Swisher 5:47 ... had a nice time.

Scott Galloway 5:48 It's nice. I'm still here. I'm not leaving for days. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 5:50 It's a nice... Oh, wait, how long are you there for?

Scott Galloway 5:52 Until Saturday.

Kara Swisher 5:53 ... you're so funny.

Scott Galloway 5:55 Sunday.

Kara Swisher 5:55 Okay.

Scott Galloway 5:55 Sunday.

Kara Swisher 5:55 Great.

Scott Galloway 5:56 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 5:56 Enjoy it.

Scott Galloway 5:56 Yeah. I'm having-

Kara Swisher 5:57 All right.

Scott Galloway 5:57 ... a good time. I've got things to do.

Kara Swisher 5:58 Stay away from the edibles.

Scott Galloway 5:59 I have some important dinners and things like that, and today, we're gonna do L- Louie's birthday also today, so we're gonna do a big thing for him. He, he's planning the day for the family.

Kara Swisher 6:07 More? More Louie? Wow.

Scott Galloway 6:08 More Louie. It's his birthday. It's his birthday and his graduation day.

Kara Swisher 6:11 Good for him.

Scott Galloway 6:12 I know.

Kara Swisher 6:13 That's nice.

Scott Galloway 6:13 It's a great... We're having a great time. It's... I have a nice family.

Kara Swisher 6:16 Good. I'm glad. You deserve it.

Scott Galloway 6:16 I do.

Kara Swisher 6:17 You have a nice family.

Scott Galloway 6:17 Anyway, w- we've got a lot to get to today, including Trump taking his Art of the Deal routine to the Middle East, I'm so tired of this guy, and the not-so-triumphant return of HBO Max. (sighs) You'll... You talked about this. We'll talk about branding in a second. But first,

Scott Galloway 6:31 the FTC's key economic expert, Scott Hempel, came under attack from Meta's lead attorney for having pitched regulators on an antitrust probe of the company in 2019. The pitch deck, uh, for the probe that, apparently, uh, Hempel worked on, uh, sh- which was shown in court, included public comments about the company's, uh, aggressive acquisition strategy, and one was from Kara Swisher, which was only just recently. The headline projected me calling Mark Zuckerberg "a small little creature with a shriveled soul." Uh, he insulted Om Malik, all this thing. Um, I... It was just ridiculous. It was so ridiculous and really petty on the behalf of the, um, uh, uh, on behalf of, uh, Meta. And I, I heard from them, and, uh, they were... I don't think they loved it either. But they did it anyway, um, and their lawyer was inaccurate. They said I was a Vanity Fair columnist. I wrote two stories for Vanity Fair a decade ago. A decade ago. Anyway, just kind of shitty and obnoxious. But I think we have ano- have to have another insult for Mark if I... I called him a small little creature with a shriveled soul. Your thoughts on that, and do you have a different one to call Mark?

Kara Swisher 7:35 What a... Uh, I'm just curious. Give me a sense of what you think is happening in the case.

Scott Galloway 7:39 Well, I don't know why they need to, like, rely on this, because I think they have a pr- relatively strong case.

Kara Swisher 7:43 Well, they're slamming the media. They're trying to say that they're victims of the media now.

Scott Galloway 7:46 Correct, or something. I don't even understand it, in that, you know, they're trying to show anybody who has any criticism for Facebook, which is e-... Um, they should receive a lot of criticism, um, is just mean, I guess. It's, it's typical plays into Mark's idea of himself as a victim. And I don't understand w-... I don't even understand why it's in here. And they called Om Malik, who... Let me just say, Om Malik was a pioneer in media entrepreneurship. They call him a failed blogger. Like, what? Like, why? And he's been... You know, both Om and I and all kinds of people, New York Times reporters, everyone who's covered Facebook for a very long time as beat reporters came to the same conclusion about this company differently, from different places. Um, even, you know, Steven Levy, uh, everybody. And I think it's really, um, uh, uh, really astonishing that they feel like attacking the media is the way to go here. I don't, I don't even, I don't even understand the strategy, I guess. But anyway...

Kara Swisher 8:39 Well, you know the difference between Mark Zuckerberg and my neighbor, Steve.

Scott Galloway 8:43 No.

Kara Swisher 8:44 Steve's not a cunt.

Scott Galloway 8:45 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 8:48 And by the way, folks, before you fill my comments, accusing me of being a misogynist, I'm in London.

Scott Galloway 8:53 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 8:53 I'm in Britain. We're allowed to use that word here.

Scott Galloway 8:55 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 8:55 And it has no reference to gender. It just means this person is a very unlikable-

Scott Galloway 9:00 It is.

Kara Swisher 9:01 ... piece of shit.

Scott Galloway 9:01 That is-

Kara Swisher 9:02 Anyways.

Scott Galloway 9:02 I have a pair of socks with that on it just to know I was gonna leave some for you (laughs) . Now I'm certain I will.

Kara Swisher 9:08 I was literally saying in this profile, in the Financial Times-

Scott Galloway 9:11 Yes.

Kara Swisher 9:11 ... it's appearing next week, that they were talking about our partnership which they're all, they're all obsessed with us. The... Or our partnership, I should say.

Scott Galloway 9:17 Our marriage.

Kara Swisher 9:18 And I said that one of the few nice things, and let's be honest, there's a lot of downside to this being a partner with you, but one of the few nice things is that I said I get to be irreverent, and there'll be an uncomfortable pause, and then, and I'm serious about this, when you laugh, it kinda gives everyone permission to laugh.

Scott Galloway 9:32 Mm-hmm. You've said that.

Kara Swisher 9:33 You know this case better than I do. What is your speculation here? What do you think is gonna happen?

Scott Galloway 9:37 I felt they have a relatively strong case, and I don't usually... I don't... I think they're... They definitely have done all kinds of, of monopolistic behaviors, and I think they control things. But I think in this case, um, things have changed, and I think the, the government took them far too long to do any regulation. And so I'm not so sure that they don't have competitors. They do have competitors. Although they dominate at the same time, you c-... It's not similar to Microsoft. To me, M- Microsoft truly dominated and there were not other alternatives. And the case of Facebook it is. I think at the time, they kind of... They always... Facebook always manages to do the sneakiest, shittiest thing back in the, especially back in the day that they could. And that's not illegal necessarily. It's just makes them, as you said, the word you used. Um, but, um, but I, I, I think... And they always make the choice that hurts people. They make the choice of, uh, not caring about consequences of the actions they take, they try to victim, advise themselves and blame all the critics as, when they have legitimate criticism. But it's a very strong case, and I think they're not conducting it very well here, and I think they're gonna lose. I do, for some reason. I think that the, the, the, the tide against billionaires and these powerful tech companies is still, despite Trump, is still on the side of, "What is wrong with these people?" And so I, I, I suspect it'll go to appeal. It'll... Like, this one's not as strong as some of the others, and, but some of the emails are pretty terrible.

Kara Swisher 11:04 See, I think this is pretty strong because if you look at the definition of antitrust as it relates to trying to reduce competition, you are not... I mean, it just couldn't be clearer with respect to acquisitions. You're not allowed to acquire a company to, um, for the purposes of reducing competition. And they literally have emails with Mark Zuckerberg and everyone else saying, "It's better to acquire than compete." I mean, it's almost as if they wanted to write a case study on what illegal antitrust acquisition is. Th- they're... I mean, if they don't, if they don't, if the FTC doesn't win on this one, that's it. Let's just stop all cases (laughs) because they, they, they literally, they are s-... If they had their hands around the throat of someone who had just died with their blood splattered all over them and they were screaming, "I killed this person!" and then they didn't go to jail, that's... If, if they're not found guilty of antitrust...... I mean, this defines antitrust.

Scott Galloway 12:03 I- it does, it does. I'm saying that the FTC's argument at the beginning was that Snapchat and MeWe was their competitor. I just feel like it- it's a be- it's a stronger case. Look, uh, uh, the Trump administration waged it, and then it was thrown back at the FTC, and Lina Khan improved it. That's absolutely true. I just feel like it's not... There's... Of all the different cases, whether it's Google, Google, it's like, to me, it's a slam dunk. The Apple one is very clear what's going on there. These emails, these... I think they call them hot emails or whatever, are really bad, are really bad. And so I think that's probably what's gonna do them in, because a lot of these companies before they get to be big, it's- I think it's called email hygiene. Like, they didn't have any. You- you can see what they think of what they're doing. And, you know, I think the testimony of Kevin Systrom wasn't great for them. Um, I suspect they've got people lined up around the block for that kind of stuff, if they're doing it. I- um, we have to see how it unfolds. I, I think they're gonna lose this, even though it's... Of all the cases, it's not the strongest, despite the emails. So we'll see. In any case, stop attacking the media. We're not the problem.

Kara Swisher 13:06 And this is the thing about... There's this general gestalt in America where anything you do around antitrust is bad for the economy. If they were forced to spin Instagram, shareholders win. Insta- uh, think about how many people would want to own a pure play Instagram.

Scott Galloway 13:23 100%.

Kara Swisher 13:25 (laughs) It's such a, it's... I mean, to their credit, it's such an incredible product.

Scott Galloway 13:28 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 13:29 And it, it's... Instagram, just to give you a sense of power of Instagram right now, when we did my birthday in Scotland-

Scott Galloway 13:37 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 13:37 ... th- I don't know if you talked to any of that folks there, but basically Scotland has been totally overrun.

Scott Galloway 13:42 Oh, pictures, yes.

Kara Swisher 13:43 They can't... And, and I said, "Well, what's happened?" And they said, "Two summers ago, the Scottish Tourism Board invited 50, quote-unquote, 'big' Instagram inf- influencers."

Scott Galloway 13:53 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 13:53 And like 30 said yes, free trip to Scotland. And Scotland, when it's nice out, is literally an Instagram orgy.

Scott Galloway 13:59 Gorgeous. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 13:59 It is spectacular.

Scott Galloway 14:00 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 14:01 And tourism was up something like 22% the next year and like 28% the following year. The inns can't handle it. The roads are- can't handle it. At the same time, a group of Instagrammers started posting, um, reels of how ridiculously overpriced Ibiza and Mykonos had-

Scott Galloway 14:21 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 14:22 ... become. And supposedly, tourist traffic in Ibiza and Mykonos literally crashed last summer.

Scott Galloway 14:27 Oh.

Kara Swisher 14:28 So Instagram is shaping global tourism flows-

Scott Galloway 14:31 Yes.

Kara Swisher 14:31 ... now.

Scott Galloway 14:32 Yep. I imag- I know, it's powerful.

Kara Swisher 14:34 Fascinating, I got a million of 'em, Kara.

Scott Galloway 14:35 Okay. All right, good.

Kara Swisher 14:36 I got a million of 'em.

Scott Galloway 14:36 In any case, uh, uh, any case, we'll see. I just feel like it... Uh, what annoyed me less than like using me or Om as a thing, is it was inaccurate. It was like, I don't work for Vanity Fair. I said one thing, if you're talking about a thing in 2019, I said this recently, after years of covering it as a beat reporter, 'cause I was so sick and tired of this company. And so, um, you just... It's just like sloppy, just like stop it. You just, they're just gross-

Kara Swisher 15:02 When's the last time-

Scott Galloway 15:02 ... and they're not good at it. They, they're-

Kara Swisher 15:03 ... you spoke to Mark Zuckerberg?

Scott Galloway 15:03 You know, Donald Trump is good at lying, Facebook-

Kara Swisher 15:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 15:05 ... is not. So, anyway.

Kara Swisher 15:07 When's the last time you spoke to Mark Zuckerberg?

Scott Galloway 15:09 Oh, forever ago. Forever ago.

Kara Swisher 15:10 Forever ago?

Scott Galloway 15:11 Yeah,

Kara Swisher 15:11 ... When's the last time you spoke to Sheryl Sandberg?

Scott Galloway 15:13 Um, she texted me, not too long-

Kara Swisher 15:16 You don't have to answer, your friends. I'm curious-

Scott Galloway 15:18 No, we're not friends.

Kara Swisher 15:18 ... where is Sheryl Sandberg?

Scott Galloway 15:19 No, I, I mean-

Kara Swisher 15:20 No?

Scott Galloway 15:20 ... when she got, when she was getting married, she said he- we w-... She was driving a bicycle past the place where we did Code, and she sent me a picture of her and her fiance at the time. That's the last time I talked to her. It was years ago, years ago.

Kara Swisher 15:31 What do you... I'm curious, what do you think she's gonna do next?

Scott Galloway 15:34 I think she's supposedly, again, I'm not talking to her, uh, is, um, uh, happy with her life. She got remarried. Um, she did a couple of, uh, little things, but sh- and giving away money quietly, I think. Um-

Kara Swisher 15:47 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 15:48 ... I, I don't know how much, but she was always pretty fl- a- at the philanthropy.

Kara Swisher 15:51 I think she's more ambitious than that. I think she's gonna run for governor.

Scott Galloway 15:53 Really? I don't think so.

Kara Swisher 15:54 Oh. You don't think so?

Scott Galloway 15:55 No. No, I think she likes her life. I think she re- is... If you go look on her Facebook feed or something, it's a lot of like, "Here I am with Taylor Swift. Here I am with my husband. Here's..." You know, seems like she's enjoying her life. That's... And, and good for her.

Kara Swisher 16:09 Really?

Scott Galloway 16:09 That's all.

Kara Swisher 16:09 It's not 14-year-olds cutting themselves?

Scott Galloway 16:11 No, no. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 16:13 No? Oh, sorry.

Scott Galloway 16:14 All right. Moving on.

Kara Swisher 16:14 Best to you, Sheryl. Best to you ... on your nuptials.

Scott Galloway 16:15 Mo- I don't know what she's gonna do. I honestly... We're not really in touch. Um, so, uh, I tried to reach her when Mark was sort of slagging her, and apparently, she didn't think Mark was slagging her, so I did, and so did many people, but others didn't. So, whatever.

Kara Swisher 16:28 And who's the new heat shield? Who's the new guy who's gonna lie and get paid 100 million bucks, and then once his reputation is destroyed, leave?

Scott Galloway 16:34 Joel Kaplan?

Kara Swisher 16:34 Is that Joel? Yeah, Joel Kaplan, the Republican.

Scott Galloway 16:36 Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

Kara Swisher 16:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:38 I don't know. I, I, you know, honestly, just Facebook.

Kara Swisher 16:40 He's supposed to be very smart.

Scott Galloway 16:41 He is very smart. I, I saw, I talked to him the other day at a party.

Kara Swisher 16:44 He told me. He wouldn't have lunch with you.

Scott Galloway 16:46 He won't.

Kara Swisher 16:46 He's smart.

Scott Galloway 16:46 He should have lunch with me.

Kara Swisher 16:47 He's smart.

Scott Galloway 16:48 Anyway, um, very smart. Um, so Apple is, uh... Let's

Scott Galloway 16:52 move on. Apple is considering increasing iPhone prices this fall without blaming tariffs, instead attributing price hike to new designs and features. But while the US and China agreed to suspend most tariffs against each other, the 20% Trump tariff imposed on Chinese goods at the start of his second term is still in place and covers smartphones. Apple built up inventory and shifted some manufacturing, as we've talked about, to India in preparation for tariffs. But the company's most profitable and high-end phones are still mostly handled by Chinese factories. Um, new iPhones will include... I keep saying that to people. They're not, they haven't successfully moved these operations, although they've been moving in that direction. New iPhones will include some design and format changes, including an ultra-thin design. Uh, you know, they're trying to, still pl- trying to play up to Trump. Um, they're not gonna, they're not gonna blame it on tariffs. But, uh, m- consumers will feel that it's Trump's fault, might- presumably, but maybe not.

Kara Swisher 17:43 Yeah, we... Uh, I mean, essentially, you have the largest yard sale in history with so much import and export business and so much, uh... I mean, the US is the largest economy in the world, and so much of it now is up for grabs because of what's happened over the last 100 days, whether it's this tariff nonsense or people not trusting, um, trying to figure out a way to not, to do as l- to do less business with America versus more. And one of the big winners... There's a lot of winners here.... uh, one of the winners is, uh, India. And that is, Trump is making India great again. And that is, people are saying, "Okay, America seems to have, or the Trump administration seems to... The relationship with China is very adversarial and creates interruptions or lack of consistency or dependabili- dependability on the supply chain." So Trump was claiming it was gonna bring manufacturing back to America, now it's bringing manufacturing to India. And it's, it's, I guess, Indian, Inda- uh, Indian manufacturing for iPhones is five to 10% more expensive, so you will see a bump in prices. Um, the pr- uh, I mean, the problem is, if you wanna talk about, uh, how this hurts people, or companies in little ways, Apple really does need to innovate right now. I would argue that Apple's product line is a little bit stale. I was excited about Apple Intelligence, but I don't really see how it's doing anything that interesting. The mixed-reality headset was a total thud. The, they really haven't... I don't, I would argue they really haven't innovated since the AirPods, which I think is the most underrated.

Scott Galloway 19:11 The Watch.

Kara Swisher 19:12 I think the Apple Watch is essentially them throwing so much capital at it that, that it's, it... Uh, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a huge fan of the Apple Watch, but I think you-

Scott Galloway 19:21 I am.

Kara Swisher 19:21 ... you, you're, you could argue that it's hard not to, hard not to call it a success. Actually, there's more Apple Watches sold than the entire US-

Scott Galloway 19:29 Swiss watch.

Kara Swisher 19:29 ... uh, entire Swiss watch industry. But they need a refresh. But where I'm headed with this is the following, is that instead of focusing on innovation, instead of having their most important people focused on design or new products, they're focused on trying to figure out a way to get the largest, most complex supply chain out of China and into somewhere else, or India, as opposed to being able to focus on the next generation of products which grow their shareholder base, grow the US economy. The, the, the primary cause of all of this nonsense and all of this chaos, and a lack of regard for, a lack of understanding for how business is actually done, is just, it, it's basically like giving, giving, um, American business high blood pressure, and that is they're more prone to opportunistic infection or to disease. It's just weakening the business corpus of the US because you have a guy like... I mean, can you imagine how much time Tim Cook has to spend on trying to figure out a way to move his supply chain out of China to India as opposed to trying to figure out what the next thing in technology is?

Scott Galloway 20:27 And what to say about Trump, right? This is not something they had to do. This is... Every minute that it takes from the executives not focusing on product is always a bad minute, right?

Kara Swisher 20:37 That's right.

Scott Galloway 20:38 I mean, that's-

Kara Swisher 20:38 That's right.

Scott Galloway 20:39 What would you make, though? What would you... What?

Kara Swisher 20:42 I (sighs) so, uh, I, I still go back to I think there was an enormous opportunity. I think, I, I mean, easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but I think Apple should have early on acquired BYD-

Scott Galloway 20:55 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 20:55 ... assuming that China hadn't been-

Scott Galloway 20:57 Oh, the cars, yeah.

Kara Swisher 20:58 Um, I, I think that essentially the waiting list for an Apple car would be the most valuable list ever aggregated in history.

Scott Galloway 21:05 Yeah, yeah.

Kara Swisher 21:06 Because the logo-

Scott Galloway 21:07 I'd buy one.

Kara Swisher 21:07 ... and the self-expressive benefit of Apple is so incredibly strong.

Scott Galloway 21:10 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 21:11 That, uh... And granted, no one knew BYD was gonna be the monster it is, but given the fact they have such incredible supply chain in China, given the fact that they have, um, such a good relationship with Xi. If, if things had been... if the temperature had been lower, imagine if Apple had gotten to kind of letter L with a company like BYD and produced a really elegant, cool little car for $11,000.

Scott Galloway 21:34 And they could have made it in-

Kara Swisher 21:35 How many of those would have sold?

Scott Galloway 21:35 ... America.

Kara Swisher 21:36 How many-

Scott Galloway 21:36 They could have done it. You're right. They, they, they didn't-

Kara Swisher 21:38 The iAuto? Can you imagine the iCar, the iAuto?

Scott Galloway 21:41 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 21:41 Oh, my God.

Scott Galloway 21:41 You know, the thing is, as much as I think they're very great operators, and I think they are, I think there's no question. I think one of the things they-

Kara Swisher 21:46 Oh, no doubt.

Scott Galloway 21:47 When, when Steve died everyone was like, "It's over," and, of course, Tim has 10X'd it.

Kara Swisher 21:51 Come on.

Scott Galloway 21:52 At, at least... I, I'm just telling you. That was, you remember.

Kara Swisher 21:54 I know.

Scott Galloway 21:55 But logistics can only get you so far, and their n- their, the vision thing is not as, uh... Like, uh, uh, Jobs took these risks even if they didn't work, right? And Tim is doing that through, say, the, the Vision Pro, et cetera. But it's not the same, it doesn't feel like... I s- I sit around, I'm like, "What could they do to the iPhone that makes it better?" Thinner, that's it, right? But that's not a thing. That's not a new product. That's a-

Kara Swisher 22:21 Yeah, but, uh... Okay, but when we're talking about risk and product development-

Scott Galloway 22:25 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 22:25 So first off, let's talk about the cadence of a company. To go from zero to 300 billion, which is what Steve Jobs did-

Scott Galloway 22:30 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 22:30 ... is just remarkable and probably the hardest thing. It is really hard.

Scott Galloway 22:35 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 22:35 It's like women will always have on men they can create life, they can grow bones and muscle, that's sort of singular.

Scott Galloway 22:41 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 22:41 Starting a company from your garage and building it to something worth a lot, I do think that's the hardest part of, quote-unquote, the, the, "life cycle" of a company. Having said that, until recently, Tim Cook has added more shareholder value than any person in history 'cause he took that company from 300 billion to three trillion. I think Jensen Huang is now number one, 'cause I think he'd taken it from zero to over three trillion. But anyways, th- y- but when people complain about new products, if you will, there's always an emphasis on new, more stuff. Uh, Tim Cook, to his credit, said, "All right, I can either try and invent a bunch of little prop planes, or I can take this 747 called the iPhone and put, you know, hypersonic jets on it." And, uh, some really visionary moves that were kind of elegant and not that loud. He took the, remember the, uh, what was it called? The iPod, and he turned it into a button and turned Apple Music I- into a, you know, a huge hit. He launched Services, and he's all, done it all around the iPhone. 'Cause what he said is, "If we get distracted with a whole bevy of other types of products, we won't be able to take advantage of what is the most profitable product in history with the greatest gross margin in history, that has the production volumes of Toyota with the margins of Ferrari, and that is the iPhone." So I think he's made a conscious decision to innovate around the thing that just produces more cash flow. The question is, it's starting to feel a little tired.

Scott Galloway 24:05 It is. Yeah, he's got to come... What would you put in, just very quickly, 'cause I want to move on, but ultra-thin is what I would say, right? That's the only thing I would add.

Kara Swisher 24:13 Yeah, but that's a design feature. I, I, I think Apple...I now believe I'm-- I'm in wri-- I'm writing a No Mercy, No Malice on-- on-

Scott Galloway 24:20 Oh.

Kara Swisher 24:20 ... healthcare cost and budget deficit. I still believe the most disruptable business in the history of the west-

Scott Galloway 24:26 Healthcare.

Kara Swisher 24:26 ... is US healthcare.

Scott Galloway 24:27 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 24:27 And I think Apple should, should go deeper and deeper into, into, uh, healthcare and fitness, they just-

Scott Galloway 24:33 Can I make a comment? As much as, uh, i- uh, by the way, Tim is very-

Kara Swisher 24:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:36 ... into fitness. He's, like, exercises. He's like you, like that.

Kara Swisher 24:38 He's in great shape.

Scott Galloway 24:39 Yeah. Um, as an older man, I don't think they have it in them. I think they're, they've done enough, and they don't have the, like, the ex-... Jony Ive did a really interesting interview. I don't think they have the explosive creativity at all in you.

Kara Swisher 24:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 24:53 There's a point where you ca- can't make more stuff if you can't think of, like, you've done it. And by the way, this is a record of a group of executives who've, you know, as I always call them, The Rolling Stones, but it's still-

Kara Swisher 25:04 Right.

Scott Galloway 25:04 ... The Rolling Stones, right? Like, they're not The Rolling Stones that were, and so they can't do much but play their oldies. That's, that's how I look at them. So-

Kara Swisher 25:14 Yeah, but they have the capital to make some equi- I was, uh, i- that goes to-

Scott Galloway 25:18 It takes energy.

Kara Swisher 25:19 In a board, agreed, but in a board meeting, you're supposed to every, at least once a year, a good board's through every six months, you go through succession planning and you're supposed to... That's when you can tell if you have the right... Uh, uh, unfortunately, some of the best CEOs-

Scott Galloway 25:32 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 25:32 ... are very good at shooting any competition.

Scott Galloway 25:34 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 25:35 And that's one of the things I noticed about... (sighs) When I was on the board NYT, it was clear the CEO was, quite frankly, was insecure because nobody good would ever get past... They, they always seem to either leave or she would shoot them. Basically, no one... It was pretty clear there was no one who could handle the job.

Scott Galloway 25:54 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 25:55 Which means you're a bad CEO.

Scott Galloway 25:56 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 25:57 And I don't know what the succession planning meeting is in there, but I, I would think Apple's board is so, it's so impressive that they gotta be thinking, "All right, who are the VPs and SVPs that really bring some crazy fucking mojo to this whole thing right now?" I th- I... They gotta be cognizant of this issue, I would think.

Scott Galloway 26:13 I, I suppose. I just think people run out of energy and then no one says anything. Anyway, we have to move on. Speaking of

Scott Galloway 26:18 no one says anything, let's say something about this. Streaming service Max will now return to being called HBO Max. This coming, of course, yet again, we called it.

Kara Swisher 26:25 Oh, God! Literally, I've had it. I have had it, Kara.

Scott Galloway 26:30 Well, so has the, so has the threat, the, the, the social media arm of, of, uh, of the company 'cause they were making fun of themselves. Let's listen to a clip of you talking about David Zaslav's decision to change the name right here on Pivot back in 2023.

Kara Swisher 26:43 If you had $10 billion and you tried to recreate a brand like HBO, you probably couldn't do it. It'd be one in 10 chance you could do it. So he's taken tens of billions of dollars, or at least billions in equity, and he's taken it into the street and created a fire to warm his ego. But this is, this will go down as one of the great brand disasters.

Scott Galloway 27:06 Okay, so now it's called HBO Max, the streaming service. The change marks the fourth name change for the service in a decade. Um, l- it was called HBO Now, there was Max, there's HBO, there's HBO Max. And again, the, the, this service, the, the, the company's social media things are making fun of it too, in a really kind of vicious way, um, how dumb this is, um, and how difficult it is, and they call it rebranding, debranding. Uh, I, uh, uh, Scott, uh, let me tell you, let me give you my, um... I don't have a perspective because I have a contract with CNN and, uh, I am making a, uh, uh, a documentary that probably will be on this whatever the fuck it's gonna be called, um, but that's my disclosure. But I find this, like, perplexing. I always liked HBO Max myself. Thoughts, brand expert.

Kara Swisher 27:56 This was probably the strongest, one of the strongest brands in the arts or in media.

Scott Galloway 28:01 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 28:01 It's just, uh, anything... What is a brand? A brand gives you unearned margin, and in this case, HBO gave you, or the HBO brand gave unearned trial. Almost anything that comes on HBO-

Scott Galloway 28:15 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 28:16 ... you're more willing to trial.

Scott Galloway 28:17 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 28:17 And the reason why is that, to the credit of HBO, the culture they have been able to create there such that they attract the best and brightest in the industry means that they basically can go toe to toe with Netflix on, no exaggeration, one seventh of the content budget.

Scott Galloway 28:36 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 28:37 Netflix spends 18 billion, HBO spends two and a half, and yet if you see two people at the, quote unquote, "proverbial water cooler" talking about-

Scott Galloway 28:46 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 28:46 ... a zeitgeist cultural moment-

Scott Galloway 28:48 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 28:48 ... and you had to bet what streaming platform that cultural moment is taking place on, the best bet is HBO.

Scott Galloway 28:56 It is, although it, it's increasingly Netflix, right? Did you see that show on Netflix?

Kara Swisher 28:59 Okay, it's seven times the c-

Scott Galloway 29:02 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 29:02 HBO defines what it means to have an amazing brand that creates a culture that results in a company that can-

Scott Galloway 29:08 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 29:08 ... punch above its weight class.

Scott Galloway 29:09 Yes, agreed.

Kara Swisher 29:10 It is so artisanal, it's the LVMH, it's n- it just doesn't have the capital of a Netflix.

Scott Galloway 29:16 Yep.

Kara Swisher 29:16 But I mean, talk about, you know, uh, uh, The Last of Us, Succession-

Scott Galloway 29:21 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 29:22 ... Game of Thrones-

Scott Galloway 29:23 Hacks.

Kara Swisher 29:23 ... The Sopranos.

Scott Galloway 29:24 Hacks.

Kara Swisher 29:25 You know, you love Hacks, that's not on the same league as the o-

Scott Galloway 29:26 Well, it's a huge hit. Yeah, but go ahead, yeah.

Kara Swisher 29:28 It's not on the same league as the shit that I'm talking about, Kara.

Scott Galloway 29:31 All right.

Kara Swisher 29:31 Um, uh, uh, uh, Six Feet Under, Jesus Christ. I mean, these guys consistently put out... Sex and the City.

Scott Galloway 29:40 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 29:40 I- they, they consistently put out this content that identifies the moment and they turn it into fucking Max so we can find Big Bang Theory and Shark Week?

Scott Galloway 29:50 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 29:51 I mean, i- i- i- a- a- and let's just go no one on the board-

Scott Galloway 29:55 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 29:56 This is the worst board in media. Nobody on the board had the sense to go, "You can't take billions of dollars into the street and light it on fire. That's bad for shareholders. Can we get someone here who actually understands brand who can talk about the power of HBO and not make a re-" Uh, the job of a board is one, to pick the right guy or gal, two, when to sell the company, but also to have some domain expertise on the board so occasionally you can save the CEO from him or herself 'cause it is really difficult to read the label from inside of the bottle. This was the easiest one ever. No, do not do away with the HBO brand. And what do they do?... I'll, I'll give him credit, a step back from the wrong direction is a step in the right direction. But let's talk about this board. Since they merged, since Zaslav was able to talk shareholders into doing this crazy thing and overpaying for it such that he could go to LA and play Jack Warner, the stock is off 62.8%. And you know how much shareholders have lost two-thirds of their value that were dumb enough to buy into this merger. Do you know how much the board has paid Zaslav in his tenure for the last four and a half years? $342 million. So shareholders lose two-thirds of their value, and the CEO makes a third of a billion dollars.

Scott Galloway 31:15 What would you have them, call it? Just continue with Max now that they made that way? That's one. And then two, there's obviously rumors, and most people think this is gonna happen, them spinning off, doing what MSN- what MSNBC just did, essentially putting CNN and other things in one bucket and, uh, the, the, the studio, I guess, in another bucket. So what, what do you imagine ... I suppose HBO would go with the studio part.

Kara Swisher 31:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:41 That would go over there, and then the news and other stuff will go places. They're doing what MSNBC did. So talk about those two things. What would you have them do? Call it that or not call it that?

Kara Swisher 31:52 Well, there's brand strategy and business strategy. They probably have to do well, and they lead into each other, but basically, uh, uh, we know what's gonna ... I, I think I know what's gonna happen here. The company is gonna go good bank, bad bank. It's gonna be HBO and Warner Brothers, the theater business, the characters, the IP, which will feed into HBO. HBO is the brand. It'll have another component, a sub- a subset, HBO Max or something, that's all the other shit. And then they will spin all the TV and the cable assets into ... They'll either consolidate or be part of a consolidator, a consolidation with Comcast. And that is, they're just, uh, these are still highly profitable businesses, but they're shrinking, so that means consolidation and cost-cutting. And they'll have good bank, bad bank. And then the HBO Warner part of the business will trade at a greater multiple. They'll sell off the cable assets to a consolidator or they'll be the consolidatee, and they'll use that cash flow to pay down the debt, and the stock will trade up. Uh, but, uh, the problem is, and it's always the boring shit that gets you, I'm not sure of this, but what I would suspect is the reason they haven't done this so far is Zaslav, when he bought the company, issued a ton of debt at exactly the right time. And that is, he has very friendly debt-

Scott Galloway 33:03 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 33:03 ... that is at a-

Scott Galloway 33:04 That's correct.

Kara Swisher 33:04 ... ridiculously low interest rate. And I would bet, I would bet that if he tries to spin those assets, it triggers an acceleration in the debt, and then he'd have to go borrow money at a much higher interest rate. So I think he has to wait until that debt matures, and he has to go into the market

Narrator 33:17 I think it's 'cause there was also a-

Kara Swisher 33:18 anyways.

Scott Galloway 33:18 ... there was also a way they did the merger. They ha- couldn't act until a certain amount of

Narrator 33:22 That's right.

Scott Galloway 33:22 ... there was a certain ...

Kara Swisher 33:23 But I think the debt, uh, uh, they don't want to do anything that, that in any way gives their bondholders a reason to say, "Oh, we're out, and you have to borrow money from us." It's at 8%, not at two and a half. So but, uh, this company will be, uh, uh, an artisanal, vertically integrated, uh, Warner Brothers Studio and HBO, the artisanal streaming network that will survive, and then they'll take all of the highly profitable but declining assets and roll them up with the bunch of the other br-

Scott Galloway 33:53 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 33:53 ... other cable guys.

Scott Galloway 33:54 Would you-

Kara Swisher 33:54 This company will be split up.

Scott Galloway 33:55 Let's get back to the name. Would you have returned it to HBO Max or just left it at Max since they went that direction?

Kara Swisher 34:01 Oh, no, bring back HBO. Oh my God.

Scott Galloway 34:03 Or could you call it-

Kara Swisher 34:04 HBO?

Scott Galloway 34:05 ... just HBO or HBO Max? Not HBO Now, that was a short period of weirdness.

Kara Swisher 34:08 No, uh, do you, Kara, do you remember HBO Go?

Scott Galloway 34:11 Go, Go, oh, I forgot Go.

Kara Swisher 34:12 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 34:12 Yes, of course, I do.

Kara Swisher 34:13 H- (laughs) HBO Joey Bag of Donuts.

Scott Galloway 34:15 That's the other, like, which app do I use? That, I remember for a moment being like, "Why are there more than one apps to access these

Narrator 34:21 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 34:22 I would, I, I think HBO needs a distinct brand identity that means artisanal high-end, like, uh, this is LVMH. This is, this is a different streaming network, and they probably have what I, uh, uh, a sub-brand that's for all the other crap, right, that's for all the other stuff that they play online. So I think it would be HBO and then HBO Max.

Scott Galloway 34:43 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 34:43 Right? This is such a clean, beautiful artisanal brand.

Scott Galloway 34:47 Yeah, I agree.

Kara Swisher 34:47 And they, what they've created there is so special. And what, to their credit, they've been able to maintain it.

Scott Galloway 34:52 Yeah. Casey Bloys runs HBO.

Kara Swisher 34:53 The last of us? I mean, these guys ...

Scott Galloway 34:54 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 34:55 Th- th- these guys (laughs) have done s- they've been such an incredible ... I mean if you think about it, uh, Netflix, Netflix is the Russian army throwing 20 million people at a problem.

Scott Galloway 35:06 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 35:06 And, uh, you know, they just have more gross tonnage. HBO is Seal Team 6.

Scott Galloway 35:10 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 35:10 I mean these are the most elite content producers.

Scott Galloway 35:14 Let me say, uh, I'm ge- speaking a- and since I'm having lunch with Richard, it's due to the Richard Plepler, like set the, set that in motion, the quality, and he's, he's since gone on to other things. And i- i- the people that he trained, like Casey Bloys and others, are the reason for that, right? They continue, and I know he left the, the company under a bit of a, like, I think he was not liking what they were doing, (laughs) like the, the, what they were doing. But I have to say, he, he set the tone for that and created one of the greatest brands I think with, with Sopranos and, as you said, Sex and the City, and, uh, Game of Thrones, et cetera. So much credit to him, and they con- you're right, they continue to create great stuff.

Kara Swisher 35:53 The White Lotus.

Scott Galloway 35:54 Like-

Kara Swisher 35:54 What's your favorite thing ever on HBO?

Scott Galloway 35:57 Oh, god, there's so many. I don't ... Uh, probably Sex and the City is the thing I watch the most of. But I, I love, I liked, um, uh, the Sopranos. I like, there's a lot I like. There's a, there's so much. There's always something good on HBO. They're always, always something good.

Kara Swisher 36:10 Chernobyl. I mean, The Penguin.

Scott Galloway 36:14 Yeah. Just really good stuff.

Kara Swisher 36:15 I mean they just do, uh ... Anyways, oh, and by the way, the show I just-

Scott Galloway 36:19 They, they don't often suck. That's all.

Kara Swisher 36:20 The show I just started watching-

Scott Galloway 36:22 Hmm.

Kara Swisher 36:22 ... which is our kind of friend's iconic, The Leftovers.

Scott Galloway 36:25 Oh, that's, yeah ...

Kara Swisher 36:25 Probably hugely underrated.

Scott Galloway 36:27 Huge show.

Kara Swisher 36:28 Really.

Scott Galloway 36:29 That actually did very well.

Kara Swisher 36:30 I mean they ... Band of Brothers? I mean these guys just keep figuring-

Scott Galloway 36:33 They do.

Kara Swisher 36:33 ... out a way to put out-

Scott Galloway 36:35 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 36:36 ... um, amazing content.

Scott Galloway 36:37 They do. And so don't fuck it up, David. That's all I have to say. Anyway,

Scott Galloway 36:41 speaking of streaming very briefly, Foxcorp will also launch its streaming service (laughs) not quite as fancy, called FOX 1 ... I actually kind of like the name ... ahead of, uh, the NFL season later this year. They're gonna jam a bunch of crap in there and they're, they have their own streaming service. So, again, I think people will pay for Fox. They had another thing, Fox+ or whatever they had, where they had all that Tucker Carlson nonsense.

Kara Swisher 37:04 Well, I mean f- uh, first off, just when I typed in, just back to the last story on Fox, they just announced their, their first show.

Scott Galloway 37:10 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 37:11 It's called I'm Not Racist, But ...

Scott Galloway 37:14 (laughs) Oh, come on.

Kara Swisher 37:16 Anyways, um-

Scott Galloway 37:17 What? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 37:18 Okay. (laughs) .

Scott Galloway 37:21 That's a good show. Like, I believed you.

Kara Swisher 37:22 I'm Not Racist, But ... (laughs)

Scott Galloway 37:25 I ... Is that a real show? No.

Kara Swisher 37:26 No. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 37:27 No.

Kara Swisher 37:27 I love that you believe that.

Scott Galloway 37:28 But I believed you. See?

Kara Swisher 37:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:29 I believed you. I was like, "Huh, I could see them doing that." Anyway, there's lots of streaming services launching. Um, what do you think about Fox's chances?

Kara Swisher 37:38 I, I think there's a market for it.

Scott Galloway 37:39 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 37:39 I'd go-

Scott Galloway 37:40 I agree.

Kara Swisher 37:40 ... I'd just go fucking crazy. Like, I'd have Laura Loomer. I would just go full conspiracy weirdo. (laughs) I mean-

Scott Galloway 37:46 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 37:46 ... I'd go, "Okay, those of you who are really crazy gotta tune in here."

Scott Galloway 37:50 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 37:50 I'd go nuts.

Scott Galloway 37:50 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 37:50 I'd go ...

Scott Galloway 37:51 Well, legal liability, though. You have to be ver- ... You can't, like ... They've, they've been da- ... They're still in the middle of a lawsuit.

Kara Swisher 37:56 Claim it's an online platform.

Scott Galloway 37:57 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 37:58 That'd be interesting. Could she claim her online platform?

Scott Galloway 38:00 I don't know.

Kara Swisher 38:00 Ah, man.

Scott Galloway 38:01 Anyway. Yeah, I agree. Well, well, anyway, we have to move on, but I, we, I think there's plenty of people who'd buy this. It's a good idea. It's probably late. They probably shoulda done it earlier. Um, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's Dealapalooza in the Middle East. Oh, good God.

Scott Galloway 38:15 Scott, we're back. President Trump is on a whirlwind tour of the Middle East. It's just, it's uh ... I don't even wanna talk about it. I'm so tired of looking at him. Where he's been busy with all sorts of wheeling and dealing. He attended a lunch in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday with a gaggle of US business leaders, including the CEOs of Amazon, OpenAI, NVIDIA, and Uber, and of course, Elon was there, all with their hands out with, to the Saudis. Some of the deals Trump has touted in the last few days, a $600 billion commitment from Saudi Arabia to invest in the US. The real number's reportedly much lower. Um, uh, Qatar Airways is buying as many as 210 Boeing jets. NVIDIA is selling chips to an AI startup, uh, backed by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund. Um, news of the deal sent NVIDIA's market cap back, uh, it had been declining, to above 3 trillion. And in a major foreign policy shift, Trump said he's lifting sanctions on Syria, and he met with the country's new president, the first US-Syria, uh, leader meeting in 25 years. Um, couple things. Um, th- there was that lunch, in, in addition to NVIDIA, AMD, and Amazon also struck deals with a Saudi Arabian AI startup. Trump seems to be using US AI technology and chips as leverage for a lot of these deals. Um, uh, not, not the stupidest thing in the world, um, but people are worried we risk losing the upper hand on AI if we're sharing them. OpenAI is reportedly considering building data centers in U- uh, uh, UAE. We're gonna talk about the di- diplomacy part in a minute, but how do you think about the business part and, uh, what h- what he's doing here? A lot of, like, jazz hands all over the place.

Kara Swisher 39:45 I, I think it makes sense. This, uh, uh, there's been US delegations led by the president to go overseas-

Scott Galloway 39:52 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 39:52 ... uh, for, for decades. But what they usually have is they have a broader ... Campaign contributions aren't the litmus test. It's great American companies, and also, they always make sure that the Chamber of Commerce and the Small Business Association is represented such that at least they're, there's the illusion they're trying to sell America, as opposed to trying (laughs) to sell the people who've been really good to them. And I, I don't ... Or good to the president. I think it's, I think something like this makes sense. Uh, AI is big. He's, he's leveraging it. I think they're being smart about this. That's the good side of this. The thing that's really scary and corrupt Is it all right? He's in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia wants s- uh, technology to build a civilian nuclear plant. They want AI. And what do you know? They announced a giant Trump Tower in Jeddah. You just shouldn't be mixing the two. In Qatar, uh, Eric beat him there, or was there before him, and announced a multi-billion dollar golf course and resort. And Qatar is, uh, giving the president a $400 million plane. And this is especially upsetting for me, for someone who thinks a lot about Israel and the fact that there are still 50-plus hostages that have been held for 500-plus days. I've always said, "If you wanna get the (laughs) hostages out, follow the money, put pressure on Qatar." How much pressure can the president bring to bear on Qatar when they are talking about, um, when, when they are talking about d- doing golf course developments en- enriching the family by billions of dollars? How, how honest and how, how, how much can geopolitical interests of the US be pure and unfettered around us and our allies when they are saying to the son, "We'll give you a billion dollars for development here." And by the way, in Qatar, it's not a private company doing it with Eric and Don. It's a division of the Qatari government that is in this real estate deal. And then let's keep traveling to the UAE, where they want American, uh, AI chips. And the reason we don't wanna give them to the AI and haven't to date is we are worried that because China, which represents three times the level of import business in terms of oil ... In other words, the UAE economically is more dependent upon ... Or it's Saudi Arabia, excuse me, but the UAE is actually a bigger trading partner with China. We don't wanna give them these chips 'cause they're worried about leaking that sensitive information to China. But what do you know? The UAE has announced that they are going to invest in World Financial Liberty's stablecoin. Uh, uh, this is just all ... Folks, our interests are not being represented.

Scott Galloway 42:27 No, the Trump family's-

Kara Swisher 42:28 Uh, uh-

Scott Galloway 42:29 ... interests are. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 42:31 (sighs) So, I, uh, I-

Scott Galloway 42:32 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 42:32 ... like the fact he's sitting down. I think Syria's a big ... I think for us to establish to kind of take the real politic of-... (laughs) of dealing with, with the new leaders here right now, I realize that has a lot of weirdness to it. I think it's, I would, uh, I think it's a really smart idea to try and figure out a way to at least have an informal peace or ally or understanding, and this is the time to cut the deal. And to put a cudgel or a wedge in between Syria and Russia right now is a big opportunity.

Scott Galloway 43:03 Yeah. So let's talk about, (clears throat) the diplomacy angle of this trip. Trump is clearly enjoying all the pomp and pageantry. He loves walking by a bunch of soldiers in fancy gold stuff. Um, but he's also got a lo- love for these leaders. He called the Syrian president "a young, attractive guy." He's so much on looks, it's so strange, especially with men. He said Qatar's emir was "a very special guy." In talking about the Saudi Crown Prince, Trump said, "I like him too much," which is interesting to say about someone who sawed someone up in pieces.

Kara Swisher 43:29 He's literally gonna say, "And he's a great kisser."

Scott Galloway 43:31 Great, great kisser. I know.

Kara Swisher 43:31 I'm expecting that to come out of his mouth.

Scott Galloway 43:32 It sounds like he might be leaving Melania for one of these guys. I, just, his, way he talks about men. He talks about women in a grotesque way, sort of like, "Nice boobs." But men is very strange, like, it's not just funny, he does it all the friggin' time. Um-

Kara Swisher 43:46 I kind of like that about him. I think most people think that way.

Scott Galloway 43:48 I don't know. I don't know.

Kara Swisher 43:48 I think we're very looksist as a species.

Scott Galloway 43:50 You do, you do. You're right, you're right. In addition to lifting these sanctions on Syria, he also said he's open to negotiating with Iran, saying there are no permanent enemies. That was a r- kind of an interesting thing, 'cause most of the Republican establishment have ... They, they did a really interesting go back five years with, like, Rubio, et cetera. There are permanent enemies, right? Like, whether it's-

Kara Swisher 44:07 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 44:07 ... North Korea. Trump has, this is, this is consistent. Trump is consistently, "I'll do a deal with anybody," kind of guy. Um, so his, the, this one, I think, is correct. There are no permanent enemies. But it's a really interesting effort on his part to be like, "Whatever the deal is, I'll do the deal," and, "You're an attractive man." That kind of thing. Uh, uh, I don't know.

Kara Swisher 44:28 Well, it goes back to values. With, uh, with respect to Iran, I think it's different. I think you go into Syria, there's a huge opportunity for us. And I would argue there's probably a decent amount of public support after what the populous endured from the kind of depraved, violent reign of Bashar al-Assad.

Scott Galloway 44:46 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 44:46 When it comes to Iran, I think the smartest thing we can do is, quite frankly, just to try and undermind the Islamic repolic- uh, republic, and we do. America does have, or at least pretends to have, values about being concerned about the general population and being focused on rights, women's rights around the world. And the one place, I think, that we have an opportunity is that the Islamic republic does not have a great deal of support, uh, uh, from the Iranian-

Scott Galloway 45:12 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 45:12 ... people. And as someone who grew up with Iranians in LA, I've always thought, Iranian, Iranians are more American than Americans. That we should be great allies with Iran, because when you, they're, uh, really into education, really into capitalism. Uh, you know, I think Iran is just a huge missed opportunity for us, um, and when you meet, especially some of the, like ... In, ugh ... You wanna talk about the benefits of immigration? We had, we got so many outstanding people, uh, after the revolution who immigrated to the US. So many great doctors, scientists, businesspeople. One of my mentors, a guy named Hamid Moghaddam, who runs, uh, the largest REIT in America, Prologis, came here after the revolution. I mean, we got such incredible human talent, and it's a shame that this, this, uh, in my opinion, backward, primitive, oppressive government, uh, is unfortunately through, kind of, kind of a reign of terror, um, is the leadership of Iran. So I think we should kind of take the Reaganesque approach, and that is we have absolutely no quarrel with the Iranian people, but the leadership and the governing body there is not good for the ir- uh, the, you know, the Iranian people or for the world. Um, and, and, and we have a tendency to group all of the Gulf's Americans into one group of people. They are much different. The Saudis do not have any love lost with Iran. So this is, but this is a place, you wanna talk about the need for someone really fucking smart and an incredible team that is solely based on competence, not whether Eric is selling golf courses, it's the Gulf. Between economic opportunities, between a flashpoint of potential violence or wars that could erupt and destabilize the world, we've got to be really honest and really smart and not be seen as fucking whores-

Scott Galloway 47:00 Yeah, exactly. You know, one of the interest-

Kara Swisher 47:02 ... over there collecting planes and golf courses.

Scott Galloway 47:04 Yeah. One of the interesting things is this, this beef between, um, Business Insider, uh, which is owned by Axel Springer, and, uh, they wrote a piece about how Don Jr.'s, like, makes Hunter Biden blush, essentially. And of course, they're going after the, just a really minor story by a very good reporter, by the way, Bethany McYlain, um, and they're putting pressure. The, the, they don't wanna, they will not take any criticism over what is clearly grift. Like, grift, grift, grift, grift. Sorry, Don. You, this, uh, that story-

Kara Swisher 47:32 I don't think it's the grift that bothers them. I think it's, uh, they, I think they're, it's associating, I think, I think it's the association or the implication that, that Don has a drug problem. I, I think they're fine with-

Scott Galloway 47:43 Uh, you think?

Kara Swisher 47:43 I think they're, like-

Scott Galloway 47:44 Hmm.

Kara Swisher 47:44 ... "Yeah, we're, we're-"

Scott Galloway 47:45 Oh, interesting.

Kara Swisher 47:45 "... we're capitalists, we're grifters."

Scott Galloway 47:47 Interesting.

Kara Swisher 47:47 I think he's pissed off that you're saying I'm like Hunter, that my drug habit is out of control.

Scott Galloway 47:52 Oh, interesting. Oh, I didn't thought, think about that. I, it wasn't in the story. I read the story, I was ... Uh, anyway. All right. Well, fine. Whatever. There, it's grift. (laughs) Um, all right, Scott. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about RFK's bizarre

Scott Galloway 48:05 swim. Scott, we're back with more news. Health and Human Services Secretary, RFK Jr., had quite a week. First off, let's listen to a clip of him answering questions before a House, uh, committee.

Narrator 48:15 I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from me.

48:19 Right.

Scott Galloway 48:19 That sort of says it. He also said his opinions on vaccines are irrelevant, and thank goodness he's not, uh, prompting people to take his advice because he recently posted a photo of himself and his grandchildren swimming in Rock Creek, which is closed to swimming because it's used for sewer runoff, E. coli. Um, he did look good, like, he's in good shape. But it was pretty, like, astonishing that he's w- I was sort of like, "Whoa, I won't even go in there with, like, rubber boots," essentially. Um, he really seems, uh-... out of it, in some ways. But he seems to be just plodding on and, and cutting things that are critically important for kids especially, uh, and safety of all of us. But, uh, any thoughts on RFK and his swim?

Kara Swisher 48:59 Uh, I think that's noise. Uh, if, whatever, the bare things, it's noise. The, the key to your story and what we should, in my opinion, be zeroing in on, 'cause it's more substantive that the head of one of the biggest agencies and who sets the tone for where we allocate resources to try and keep America healthy, him claiming that he doesn't give medical advice is such a, just an outrageous lie. He has been one of the strongest anti-vaccine advocates. That is medical advice. He has written a book, The Real Anthony Fauci, a book, a best-selling book, Kenny- Kennedy offered medical perspective contradicting mainstream public health guidance. He's promoted alternatives to COVID-19 treatments, medical advice. He's made, uh, th- I think it's called thimerosal claims, for years Kennedy has advised people to avoid vaccines containing thimerosal. That is medical advice. EMF health claims, Kennedy has suggested electromagnetic fields from wireless technology pose serious health risks. That is medical advice. Discussions about his own medical conditions, talking about measles and rubella, claims about medical conditions in children. He gives more fucking medical advice than the surgeon general.

Scott Galloway 50:08 And he presides over a medical organization, that's the thing. The, I, I think he's saying, "I don't think people should be taking medical advice from me," which is such, it's so disingenuous, is what you're saying, essentially.

Kara Swisher 50:19 He, he realizes what he has said.

Scott Galloway 50:22 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 50:22 This guy is literally the best friends, the best friend measles and rubella ever had.

Scott Galloway 50:26 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 50:27 Right?

Scott Galloway 50:27 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 50:27 They're like, "Oh my God, we're back."

Scott Galloway 50:29 Right. (laughs) Yeah.

Kara Swisher 50:30 Right?

Scott Galloway 50:30 "Hey."

Kara Swisher 50:30 "We thought we were out of business, but this guy wants to put us back on a global tour."

Scott Galloway 50:35 Right.

Kara Swisher 50:35 He wants to, you know, first stop Texas and really crazy conservative places, "We're back for a limited time only. Oh, maybe it's gonna be an extended time bringing you, you know, this, this band from the '50s and '60s, measles and rubella." It, this guy is so... And the problem is he's very handsome, he's very compelling. He is very good on some issues, on the environment, in my opinion, on Israel. He's powerful, you wanna like him. And this guy is so fucked up in the head and dangerous when it comes to medical advice and vaccines, and this is the guy figuring out where we're gonna allocate resources. He's fired so many really good thoughtful people who save lives. And again, it's just death by 1,000 cuts. There's gonna be kids, there's gonna be more, more death, disease, and disability because this guy is in office. And for him to say, uh, uh, "You shouldn't take medical..." He's trying to backtrack 'cause some of the shit he has said lately, "There was no diabetes when I was a kid." He is constantly spewing misinformation.

Scott Galloway 51:38 Can I, can I just point out the, the stream thing? I know it's a distraction, but it's not actually, because it shows the same kind of lack of care. I mean, like if even one person goes in that stream, like he's in there with children, it's poop, it's E. coli, it's shit. He, he's saying something rather disturbing. And he, look, he can do whatever he wants. If he wants to swim in shit, good luck, Robert. I can't believe he continues to survive, but all, with all the stuff he does. But, um, I, I think it is important that he's doing that. Like here's the head of the Health and Human Services swimming in a sewer and saying, "Hey, I'm having fun." I just, I don't think it's a distraction. I think it says exactly what you're saying here.

Kara Swisher 52:18 Anyways, I, I'm, I, I think that there's a lot of people, you know, Secretary Hagseth puts us in the most immediate danger because incompetence overseeing the largest military in the world is just dangerous on a short term basis. But over the medium and the long-term, more death, disease, and disability, unnecessary death, disease, and disability, will be spread by RFK Jr. And I don't say that lightly. I, that is a terrible thing to say about someone, and I think there's a lot of evidence backing that statement up.

Scott Galloway 52:48 I, I would agree. As you said before, uh, planes were not having all these near misses when, when Pete Buttigieg was in there. Um, airline, uh, things weren't falling off of aircraft carriers when Pete Hag, when, b- before Pete Hagseth and stuff like that. And, and in this case, I agree, it's a long-term danger, especially with the decimation of science. Um, and everything he does is always either performative, grotesque, and always dangerous for people's health, and to, for, uh, just he's- he's really one of the more dangerous of, of the-

Kara Swisher 53:20 And this whole make America healthy again-

Scott Galloway 53:22 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 53:23 ... is such a fucking distraction.

Scott Galloway 53:25 It is. I agree.

Kara Swisher 53:26 Although I, granted, no doubt-

Scott Galloway 53:28 Sugar.

Kara Swisher 53:28 ... no doubt we need to look at our food supply and sugar. No doubt.

Scott Galloway 53:31 It's hard to find sugar in Scott's apartment, everybody, just so you know.

Kara Swisher 53:34 Well, you know why? 'Cause I have money.

Scott Galloway 53:36 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 53:36 And I can buy, I can buy healthy food.

Scott Galloway 53:38 (laughs) Like, okay.

Kara Swisher 53:38 I can go to doctors.

Scott Galloway 53:40 See, I'm really upset by it.

Kara Swisher 53:40 No. I'm, I'm trying to make a serious point here.

Scott Galloway 53:42 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 53:43 If these guys were serious-

Scott Galloway 53:44 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 53:45 ... about health of America-

Scott Galloway 53:46 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 53:47 ... they would have a more progressive tax structure.

Scott Galloway 53:49 Yep.

Kara Swisher 53:49 That would, that would literally be, if you wanted to increase the health of America, give kids access, get rid of food deserts, give kids access to good, healthy food, make it such that people have the time to exercise.

Scott Galloway 54:01 100%. You're obso- Scott, president, running for president of America. Um, all right. One more quick break and we'll be back for predictions. I'm excited to hear a prediction.

Scott Galloway 54:11 Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Kara Swisher 54:13 Oh, um...

Scott Galloway 54:14 Oh (laughs) yeah, that.

Kara Swisher 54:17 The, well, first off, while I would enjoy... I'm all down, I think the American public should be down with him getting that 747 on one condition. They paint along the side of it, it says, "Qatar's bitch."

Scott Galloway 54:29 Yeah. (laughs) That's-

Kara Swisher 54:30 I think that, I think that, that would be the trade.

Scott Galloway 54:33 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 54:33 But anyways, being serious-

Scott Galloway 54:34 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 54:34 ... my prediction's the following. The plane's not gonna happen, Kara.

Scott Galloway 54:37 No.

Kara Swisher 54:38 These people, they're so amateur, and I've been saying for a while they're so good at the grift. They got this grift wrong because here's the thing.... the NSA, the CIA, uh, the Secret Service who's charged with the president's safety are gonna say, "You realize a very small amount of C2 explosive could be put anywhere on this plane that has the-"

Scott Galloway 55:00 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 55:01 "... wiring of, you know, a hospital complex. And if they at some point decided (laughs) they didn't like who was on the plane, including you... So in order for this plane to live up to vet security standards-"

Scott Galloway 55:15 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 55:15 "... and protocols, they would have to disassemble it and reassemble it. He can't take this plane. Not because he's not a criminal, not because he doesn't want it, not because they're not willing to give it. But his security apparatus is gonna sit down with him and say, 'We need to have an adult conversation with you. You can't have a foreign government giving you a piece of technology that you're flying in at 40,000 feet. We can't ensure your safety. And the only way we'd be able to do that is to take the thing down to a series of 48,000 parts and then put it back together again.'" Do you remember? It reminds me of... Do you remember when we let the Russians build our embassy in Moscow?

Scott Galloway 55:54 Yeah, I rem- or... We... Yes, that's right.

Kara Swisher 55:55 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 55:55 It was full of, like, listening devices.

Kara Swisher 55:57 (laughs) Like, they would just literally... They would start hammering pieces of the wall and they'd find listening (laughs) devices everywhere.

Scott Galloway 56:02 Yeah, everywhere, like in-

Kara Swisher 56:03 And then finally-

Scott Galloway 56:03 ... the concrete. Yeah, that's right.

Kara Swisher 56:04 Finally, they said, "There's no way-"

Scott Galloway 56:06 And just tore it down.

Kara Swisher 56:07 "There's no way-"

Scott Galloway 56:08 Tore it down.

Kara Swisher 56:08 "... we can make this thing ever secure."

Scott Galloway 56:11 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 56:11 So they said, "Just demolish the thing."

Scott Galloway 56:13 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 56:13 So anyways, my prediction is, uh, the plane thing's not gonna happen. Uh, they... Or let me put it this way. It's not gonna be Air For- it's not gonna be Air Force One.

Scott Galloway 56:23 Yeah. Well, the, the... Boeing's been building one, right? Correct? It's just taking too long for Trump. He wants a fancier, slicker plane. He's so, ugh, gross. He's so grotesque. It's the, the... And also, by the way, I think you're right, 'cause a plane is a real symbol. It's not a little grift. It's, like, a big, flying, huge fucking grift.

Kara Swisher 56:40 It's a huge symbol of our power.

Scott Galloway 56:41 Symbol. Symbol of real, uh...

Kara Swisher 56:42 I love that. One of my favorite photographs-

Scott Galloway 56:44 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 56:44 ... I was trying to get a print of it-

Scott Galloway 56:46 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 56:47 ... was, uh, when China was waving their finger at us and telling us not to go to Taiwan, and Nancy Pelosi showed up in an Ame- a very American-looking plane, and they parked the plane behind her, and there she was in high heels and a pink pantsuit. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 57:00 (laughs) Yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:00 And it was just like, "Fucking A, I love America."

Scott Galloway 57:03 (laughs) Yeah, it's true.

Kara Swisher 57:04 Where a 77-year-old woman gets on a plane for 14 hours, figures out a way to look fabulous-

Scott Galloway 57:08 Yeah, she does look good.

Kara Swisher 57:09 ... and takes a picture in heels in front of our plane.

Scott Galloway 57:11 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:11 I thought that was really-

Scott Galloway 57:13 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 57:13 I thought that was a great image.

Scott Galloway 57:14 Oh, there, you complimented Nancy Pelosi. That's a new one. Anyway.

Kara Swisher 57:17 I like the Speaker.

Scott Galloway 57:18 Yeah. Um, so anyway, uh, I, I have just a very brief thing. Just The New York Times just came out with a piece again. Speaking of this kind of thing, um, e- uh, m- this, this group called the Technology Transparency Project, this nonprofit that focuses on accountability, um, for tech, um, said that more... Let me read the lead. "More than a year after researchers first warned that X was potentially violating US sanctions by accepting payments for subscription accounts from terrorist organizations and other groups barred from doing business in the country, Elon Musk's social media platform continues to accept such payments according to this report, this new report." Uh, we had said that he wasn't gonna stop a year, um, ago, so we got that one right. Just so you know. Anyway, once again, they just lo- They love them a terrorist. Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Uh, send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, uh, this week on Prof Deep Conversations, Scott spoke with Timothy Snyder, a leading historian of authoritarianism, Ukraine, and Eastern Europe. I've interviewed him too, but just the news recently he's moving to Canada, he and his wife, I believe. But let's listen to a clip.

Narrator 58:27 When we make enemies unnecessarily, we are encouraging terrorism. So it's not just that we're putting our defenses down, which we're clearly doing. It's also that we're inviting the offense, which we're also clearly doing. What the Trump people are doing is draining American power out of the system because the international system... Our power in the international system depended upon, among other things, re- uh, relationships, trust, alliances, um, reliability treaties. But everybody else's power remains. Everybody else is now more relatively powerful with respect to us, and so, of course, they can now afford to think about interventions and adventures which they wouldn't have been able to think about before. I agree completely.

Scott Galloway 59:03 Did you like that conversation? He's really smart.

Kara Swisher 59:06 I love that stuff. I'm fascinated by it. But just, just-

Scott Galloway 59:09 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 59:09 ... just for the, for the record, 'cause I asked him, I said, "Why did you move to Canada?" And he said that it didn't have anything to do with the current political climate, that it was a lifestyle.

Scott Galloway 59:18 Yeah, and also his-

Kara Swisher 59:19 He had some family there.

Scott Galloway 59:19 ... wife. Yeah, and also, I... They, they did a, there, they did a story, uh, I think in The Times today about that, and there was a little bit... There was some of, like, you can't go away from history, I believe, right? Th- They definitely did, um, talk, uh, he and his wife, um, they're sort of a power couple, a hist- history department power couple, his wife Marcy Shore. Um, they were all going to Toronto. But there was some element of you can't escape history and this is not a good situation to be in. We'll see how many scholars actually leave. There's a, you know, there's a move and, uh, the, the new head of NIH was-

Kara Swisher 59:52 Well, they're being recruited. I know firsthand they're, they're being recruited.

Scott Galloway 59:54 Yeah, they're being recruited by, say, uh, France, for example. The h- the new head of the NIH who's, I, I think is a loudmouth. Um-

Kara Swisher 1:00:00 And, and China.

Scott Galloway 1:00:01 Yeah, exactly.

Kara Swisher 1:00:02 And the UK.

Scott Galloway 1:00:03 Yep.

Kara Swisher 1:00:03 I mean-

Scott Galloway 1:00:04 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:00:04 ... I'm, I'm telling you folks, the best and brightest at these universities are getting calls-

Scott Galloway 1:00:10 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:00:10 ... uh, w- offers for money, intellectual and academic freedom.

Scott Galloway 1:00:13 Yep.

Kara Swisher 1:00:14 But we were talking about this guy moving to Canada.

Scott Galloway 1:00:16 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:00:17 It's interesting, you know, there just... That... You know why that you can't actually... A guy who's from Boston is not... You can't bury him in Toronto. You know why?

Scott Galloway 1:00:28 No. Oh, no.

Kara Swisher 1:00:28 Because he's still alive. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:00:31 (laughs) Um, anyway, it, it's just an interesting time. One... The head of the NIH said, uh, f- about France taking scientists, he goes, "Oh, it's a nice place to visit." What an idiot. What a stupid idiot in that way. People are making... Are thinking about this, at the very least, which is they never would have in a million years.

Kara Swisher 1:00:48 I said a trend.

Scott Galloway 1:00:48 Anyway. What? It's a trend. It's a trend. Um, uh, we're not moving. We're staying here. I'm gonna stay in Scott's apartment and never leave.

Kara Swisher 1:00:55 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:00:56 Um, okay. That's the show. Thank you, uh, for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is growing, uh, quite smartly. Uh, we'll be back next week. Uh, Scott, read us out. (instrumental music plays)

Kara Swisher 1:01:08 Today's show was produced by Laura Nahum, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Metott engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Beros, Mia Saverio, and Dan Chalon. Nishshack Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Louis Swisher, congratulations. Well done. Graduation.

Scott Galloway 1:01:36 Happy birthday, Louis, too. (instrumental music plays)