Trump's Tariffs Spark Global Backlash and Market Meltdowns | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 5:10

   Intro

   1. JLJon Lovett0:00

      Lesbians know what penises look like.

   2. KSKara Swisher0:01

      We know what they look like.

   3. JLJon Lovett0:02

      That's partly the way you figure out you're a lesbian. (laughs)

   4. KSKara Swisher0:07

      (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I am the very nasty and openly lesbian Kara Swisher. That's according to my number one fan, Megyn Kelly. Scott is off today but in his place, I brought in someone who Megyn Kelly might also take issue with, the host of Crooked Media's Pod Save America and Love It or Leave It, John Lovett. Welcome, John.

   5. JLJon Lovett0:32

      Hi. Good to see you.

   6. KSKara Swisher0:33

      Good. Did you see Megyn trying to flirt with me online? Did you see that situation?

   7. JLJon Lovett0:38

      I... Yes. Um, you know, dipping your, dipping your pigtails in ink, for sure.

   8. KSKara Swisher0:42

      I mean, seriously, what is the deal? Did you understand I like LGB but not T?

   9. JLJon Lovett0:48

      Oh, uh, of course. Of course. They're, they're trying to divide the T off from the LGB. They... That's what they've done, and all.

   10. KSKara Swisher0:56

       I don't think she knows what Q is or plus. Like, "What is plus? What is Q?" (laughs)

   11. JLJon Lovett1:00

       They're, they're... Look, they haven't gotten to... They haven't, they haven't figured out how to, how to... Uh, they, they know about the... I don't think they know what the Q is.

   12. KSKara Swisher1:07

       Yeah.

   13. JLJon Lovett1:07

       They certainly don't know what the IA is. They're not into I- any of these letters-

   14. KSKara Swisher1:10

       Yeah.

   15. JLJon Lovett1:10

       ... but they're mostly focused on trying to... They want the, they want the T off of the flag.

   16. KSKara Swisher1:16

       Yeah. Yeah.

   17. JLJon Lovett1:16

       And we have to keep the T on the flag.

   18. KSKara Swisher1:18

       Yeah. I didn't make a response to the New York Post when they called me, for one. I felt that was the right way to go, didn't you think?

   19. JLJon Lovett1:24

       Yeah. Well, it, it... (sighs) It, it seems as though this is... Is it just drumming up a, a, a misunderstanding from years ago to find a way to talk about you? Is that what this is?

   20. KSKara Swisher1:35

       I, I have no idea. I, I called her a rage machine l- last week on the show 'cause she is. She just yells at everybody. And, uh, and you know, and she wasn't... She... I, I hate to say, so talking about Elon Musk, they weren't exactly like this then, and so it's kind of a shock. Uh, what happened is she had canceled on the show, and we had had back and forth, back and forth. And I think I wrote sort of a... to my, to the staff, and her person like, "When are we gonna do this thing?" And then the person said, "Her sister died," and I, then I wrote, "I'm really sorry." So the whole thing is I didn't know, right? And then it was ridiculous. Of course, I'm sorry her sister died. It's just very strange. I think it was just an excuse to yell at me for a little while, but...

   21. JLJon Lovett2:11

       Yeah. That's what it seem, that's what it seems like.

   22. KSKara Swisher2:12

       Yeah.

   23. JLJon Lovett2:12

       That's what it seems like. It's, it's-

   24. KSKara Swisher2:13

       She has a podcast network like you guys. Did you know that? She and-

   25. JLJon Lovett2:16

       I, I... Well, the reason I know about it-

   26. KSKara Swisher2:18

       ... Chuck Todd.

   27. JLJon Lovett2:18

       ... is because she called you a bitchy lesbian or whatever she said.

   28. KSKara Swisher2:20

       (laughs) Yeah. That's so cute.

   29. JLJon Lovett2:20

       That's how I... I mean, that's the whole pur- That's... This is that, this is... There's like a, like she... There's a cycle to this, right?

   30. KSKara Swisher2:25

       Right.
2. 5:10 – 10:38

   Elon’s Exit?

   1. KSKara Swisher5:10

      President Trump has reportedly told his inner circle that Elon Musk will be transitioning out of his administration in the coming weeks according to Politico. The White House is denying the report with Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt calling it garbage in a post on X. Elon also weighed in on X saying it's fake news. Um, we'll get to Elon's role in Wisconsin election in a bit, but the big picture of Elon is indeed beginning to step back. Uh, what do you think about the move and the timing? The 130-day tenure as special government employee is due to end in, uh, late May, early June, whatever that is. It might be time for him to focus back on Tesla. The company shared its dramatic numbers this week, dramatically bad. Sales plunged 13% in the first three months of the year, the largest drop of deliveries in history. Nobody wants it. Obviously, these protests are counting but also the fact they don't have any innovative cars. Um, how do you... Uh, how does... What is- From your perspective, what's going on here with their communications, and then what happens when he's not in his orbit and stops the day-to-day government business that he's doing, and what will happen to Doge, um, uh, in that, in that, uh, in-... when that happens. Um, uh, in Scott's absence, just to finish it up, I'll note he predicted Elon's ex- at the end of j- uh, and the end of Doge just a few weeks ago. Let's listen.

   2. NANarrator6:22

      So I think he's basically gonna p- pull a Vivek and just slowly fade away, out of... And I think Doge is going to die a quiet death because he has... It, it looks as if his, his power has been emasculated and two, he's just losing so much money right now.

   3. KSKara Swisher6:38

      So talk a little bit about this. What do you, what do you imagine is happening here?

   4. JLJon Lovett6:43

      So I think first of all, we should dispense with the idea that this is because the 130-day window-

   5. KSKara Swisher6:48

      Yeah.

   6. JLJon Lovett6:49

      ... is up. Uh, uh, because as we all know, Trump is, has nothing but respect for arcane-

   7. KSKara Swisher6:53

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JLJon Lovett6:53

      ... rules governing-

   9. KSKara Swisher6:55

      Of government. (laughs)

   10. JLJon Lovett6:55

       ... when people can and cannot serve. So that's, that's ridiculous.

   11. KSKara Swisher6:59

       Yeah.

   12. JLJon Lovett7:01

       I, I don't... Look, I think it is probably too pat and too convenient for all of us that have found the way that Elon Musk has sort of rampaged through the government to be obviously disgraceful, but also politically unpalatable to say, "Ah, look what's hap- we'll talk about Wisconsin, but, uh, he's deeply unpopular. Doge, uh, is bringing negative attention to Trump. Trump put Elon out there as a shield. He took all of these hits and now, because he's unpopular, Trump's moving him aside." I, uh, I don't think it's... I don't think it's, um, unreasonable for them to say this was always basically the plan, that he was gonna come for a few months, get this thing rolling, and then step back. That said, Elon Musk has drawn so much negative attention to what could have been a far more boring, uh, endeavor that, that... He, he has brought so much negative attention to the kinds of cuts that they might have wanted to make-

   13. KSKara Swisher8:10

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JLJon Lovett8:10

       ... but probably not with this much fanfare.

   15. KSKara Swisher8:12

       Right. Right.

   16. JLJon Lovett8:13

       And probably with no- without this much chaos. What, what is unclear is A, how much of this can go on without Elon as this singular aggressive figure?

   17. KSKara Swisher8:27

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JLJon Lovett8:27

       And B, how much of what he's already done is so damaging that bas- a- and, and so complete-

   19. KSKara Swisher8:35

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JLJon Lovett8:36

       ... that really they've gotten what they wanted to get out of Doge-

   21. KSKara Swisher8:38

       Right, which is break everything.

   22. JLJon Lovett8:39

       ... and now they can move on.

   23. KSKara Swisher8:40

       Move fast and break things. Right, yeah.

   24. JLJon Lovett8:40

       Which is break everything, fire everybody. You know, I have a, I have a friend at the VA-

   25. KSKara Swisher8:47

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JLJon Lovett8:47

       ... and, uh, he was talking about how, yeah, you know, the, the, the surgeries are continuing-

   27. KSKara Swisher8:52

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JLJon Lovett8:53

       ... but a bunch of people lost their, the access to the computer system because they were fired-

   29. KSKara Swisher8:57

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JLJon Lovett8:57

       ... and then unfired, but they haven't gotten it back-
3. 10:38 – 19:19

   Dems Win in Wisconsin

   1. KSKara Swisher10:38

      Um, but, so let's talk about the Wisconsin election where despite spending $25 million, uh, Elon was unable to buy a state supreme court seat. You can buy a presidency for $200 million but you cannot buy a state supreme court seat for tw- for a tenth of that. Um, Democratic-backed candidate Susan Crawford handily, uh, beat her conservative opponent Brad, uh, Schemel, maintaining the liberal majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. She's replacing another justice who is a liberal justice. In terms of the other elections this week, Republicans did keep those House seats in Florida, replaced Matt Gaetz and Mike Walsh, though margins were significantly narrower than in the last election. The strategy making Elon the enemy was effective in the Wisconsin race. I think he's just irritating, and though he didn't help himself, as I said, with the cheesehead hat. Um, what is the playbook? Because he's not always gonna be there to beat up on and... Of course, on Sunday he said the entire destiny of humanity hung on this race, but he later said, "I expected to lose." There is a value to losing a piece, uh, a piece for positional gain, which I'm calling downward-facing Doge. Um-

   2. JLJon Lovett11:39

      (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher11:40

      ... uh, what, what, what is, what is happening here? Because I'm, I'm trying to sort of like... Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Like, I'm always quite wary even when these people lose of how much they actually lose.

   4. JLJon Lovett11:51

      Oh, it's, it's a very good thing that he lost.

   5. KSKara Swisher11:54

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JLJon Lovett11:54

      He got nothing for that money.

   7. KSKara Swisher11:56

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JLJon Lovett11:56

      They lost the other statewide races-

   9. KSKara Swisher11:59

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JLJon Lovett11:59

       ... as well. I was in Wisconsin in the run-up-

   11. KSKara Swisher12:03

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLJon Lovett12:03

       ... and I went knocking on doors, and obviously that's anecdotal, but we talked to-

   13. KSKara Swisher12:09

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JLJon Lovett12:09

       ... went to 150 doors and-

   15. KSKara Swisher12:12

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JLJon Lovett12:12

       Elon had made himself the main character.

   17. KSKara Swisher12:14

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JLJon Lovett12:14

       It was what's on people's minds. Ah, o- one example, we were just walking down the street-

   19. KSKara Swisher12:20

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JLJon Lovett12:20

       ... and someone in the neighborhood was like, "Well, what are you guys, what are you knocking on doors for?" And we said, "Oh, we're trying to make sure everybody gets out to vote for Susan Crawford." And they said, uh, "Can you believe what's going on with Elon? They're setting the Teslas on fire. He's spending 25 million, or he's spending millions of dollars in the state."

   21. KSKara Swisher12:35

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JLJon Lovett12:36

       Uh, and I think it, again, like, I would love to say that, "Oh, Elon, this is proof that Elon Musk is political poison."

   23. KSKara Swisher12:45

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JLJon Lovett12:46

       I, I don't know that. I think what you can say is that-

   25. KSKara Swisher12:49

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JLJon Lovett12:49

       ... in this environment, and this is very good news-

   27. KSKara Swisher12:52

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JLJon Lovett12:52

       ... no amount of money can overcome the political fundamentals.

   29. KSKara Swisher12:57

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JLJon Lovett12:57

       Uh, and Elon Musk is not a persuasive figure to the kinds of voters that Republicans need.
4. 19:19 – 25:15

   Booker’s Marathon Speech

   1. KSKara Swisher19:19

      Interestingly, i- in contrast, uh, s- N- New Jersey Senator Cory Booker invigorated Democrats this week with a 25-hour, um, uh, speech at, at, at, at, in the, uh, in, in Congress against the Trump administration. Booker is now in the record books for the longest speech, uh, Senate, in Senate history, surpassing Strom Thurmond's stand against Civil Rights Act of 1957. Um, I have a serious question for you, but first, let's listen to Senator Booker explain how he managed not to go to the bathroom for the 25 hours.

   2. NANarrator19:48

      I talked to a lot of people. I copied some of the things we did for 15 hours, so I fasted for days into it. Um, I stopped drinking water a long time ago. I think that had good and bad benefits. I, I definitely started cramping up, uh, from lack of water, so if s- some of you, uh, saw me really drink nothing. In the end, I was just trying to do something to stop my muscles from cramping. Um, so there's just a lot of tactics I was using to try to make sure that I could stand for that long.

   3. KSKara Swisher20:11

      So, an i- impressive accomplishment of not peeing, but what, what, why, why do people like this? Got, it got a huge, um, following. Lots of people watched it. I was sort of surprised by those numbers. Um, it had a, you know, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington quality to it, but i- i- why do this? 'cause sometimes, I'll be honest, Booker does a lot of stunts that I'm like, "Ugh, a stunt." But this was a good stunt, I feel like, in some ways. And I don't mean to minimize it by saying stunt, but you know, it is what it is. He's trying to garner attention and get focus.

   4. JLJon Lovett20:41

      Yeah, it's a good stunt. I, I, I too was, I, I thought it was a good idea. I was glad he was doing it. I'm glad to see when anybody is basically trying things to try to grab attention in this chaotic media-

   5. KSKara Swisher20:54

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JLJon Lovett20:54

      ... environment. I was als- But I was, like blown away by the number of people watching it, uh, the amount of-

   7. KSKara Swisher21:00

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JLJon Lovett21:00

      ... clips that were circulating because of it. And it just speaks to the fact that there is a huge hunger-

   9. KSKara Swisher21:06

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JLJon Lovett21:07

       ... uh, among the m- majority of the country that does not support Donald Trump, uh, that, uh, are looking for people who are going to fight, that just are gonna respond to the moment, to the scale of what we're facing-

   11. KSKara Swisher21:23

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLJon Lovett21:23

       ... with a sense that this is a different time, and we're gonna need to treat this differently, and we can't just, uh, go along with business as, as usual. That, that you can't, uh, you know, the plan can't be to, uh, vote for the continuing resolution and then go on your book tour.

   13. KSKara Swisher21:43

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JLJon Lovett21:43

       Like, that's just not the world we're living in.

   15. KSKara Swisher21:45

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JLJon Lovett21:45

       This is a dangerous moment, and you want to see leaders that reflect that.

   17. KSKara Swisher21:52

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JLJon Lovett21:52

       And this is a, look, it, it, uh, it is a stunt, right?

   19. KSKara Swisher21:57

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JLJon Lovett21:57

       Because ultimately, it doesn't have any-

   21. KSKara Swisher22:00

       Impact.

   22. JLJon Lovett22:01

       ... impact, but it does draw people's eye-

   23. KSKara Swisher22:05

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JLJon Lovett22:06

       ... to what is happening in our political system. And I, he is doing something that required him to sacrifice and to, and to go through like some-

   25. KSKara Swisher22:15

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JLJon Lovett22:16

       (laughs) Sounds like a fair amount of pain.

   27. KSKara Swisher22:17

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JLJon Lovett22:18

       Uh, and good for him for doing that. And I think a lot of people will see moments from it, see his passion in it-

   29. KSKara Swisher22:25

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JLJon Lovett22:25

       ... uh, hear some of the different arguments he was making. I th- I thought he did a great job talking about Social Security and Medicaid.
5. 25:15 – 35:56

   Trump Tariff Chaos

   1. KSKara Swisher25:15

      John, we're back, and we're recording on the day after Liberation Day. Do you feel liberated? Do you feel liberated?

   2. JLJon Lovett25:21

      Yeah, so this is libera- this is sort of Boxing Day-

   3. KSKara Swisher25:23

      I know. (laughs)

   4. JLJon Lovett25:23

      ... or Liberation Day. Uh-

   5. KSKara Swisher25:24

      (laughs) Well...

   6. JLJon Lovett25:26

      (laughs)

   7. KSKara Swisher25:26

      Um, President Trump unveiled his latest tariffs, the most expansive yet, at the White House on Wednesday with the help of a giant poster board. He's imposing a 10% tariff on all US trading partners as well as double-digit, he's calling them reciprocal tariffs, they're not, just so you know, um, about the worst offenders. He seems to, n- nobody thinks these are good things, and the math is like nuts. Um, the EU will face 20% tariffs, Japan 24%, uh, South Korea 26%, and China an additional 34% on top of existing tariffs of I think 20%. Russia conveniently didn't make the cut. Trump also is slapping tariffs on unexpected places like some uninhabited islands on the, in the Ac- Arctic where only penguins live. People are having a good time with that.

   8. JLJon Lovett26:07

      (laughs)

   9. KSKara Swisher26:07

      The EU, China, and others are already planning retaliation. Um, he's been very flip-floppy on tariffs, sort of red light, green light, which caused chaos, and now he just dropped the bomb, like he really did essentially drop the mic. Um, the markets opened just a little while ago, the S&P dropped 3.4%, the Dow fell 1,200 points, more than 2%, and the NASDAQ is down 3.8%. Big numbers. A number of sectors are getting hit, but in terms of tech specifically, things are looking rough right now for tech, particularly 'cause they're so invested across the world. Apple's down over 9%, Amazon down 8%, NVIDIA down 6%, Alphabet down 4%. US tech companies are becoming collateral damage when it comes to retaliation, getting hit with fines, restrictions, and new taxes by major markets worldwide. They also have obviously interconnected with so many different markets. Um, what do you think of this rollout? Peter Navarro is back, my friend. He's back and he's crazier than ever.

   10. JLJon Lovett27:00

       Uh, Trump's building a wall-

   11. KSKara Swisher27:03

       Yeah.

   12. JLJon Lovett27:03

       ... and we're all gonna pay for it-

   13. KSKara Swisher27:04

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JLJon Lovett27:05

       ... is I think what's happening. Larry Summers-

   15. KSKara Swisher27:08

       Explain that.

   16. JLJon Lovett27:08

       Uh, Larry Summers posted, uh, this, and he's, uh, I don't think anybody-

   17. KSKara Swisher27:13

       A former eco- famous economist and-

   18. JLJon Lovett27:14

       Former, uh, uh, uh, treasury secretary and somebody who, uh, is not hyperbolic-

   19. KSKara Swisher27:21

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JLJon Lovett27:22

       ... saying that a crude estimate of Trump's tariffs puts the projected loss at $20 trillion or well over $200,000 per family-

   21. KSKara Swisher27:30

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JLJon Lovett27:31

       ... of four.

   23. KSKara Swisher27:32

       Wow.

   24. JLJon Lovett27:33

       Uh, and then he walks through how he reaches that very conservative-

   25. KSKara Swisher27:36

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JLJon Lovett27:37

       ... estimate-

   27. KSKara Swisher27:37

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JLJon Lovett27:37

       ... of the damage. They're y- they're not reciprocal tariffs. People were baffled by the number.

   29. KSKara Swisher27:43

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JLJon Lovett27:43

       I'm n- I'm not an economist.
6. 35:56 – 46:12

   Joe Rogan Criticizes Trump Deportations

   1. KSKara Swisher35:56

      another podcaster, uh, Joe Rogan, thinks the Trump administration's deportations are horrific. Because now, even the thing that he polls strongest on, which is immigration, um, some of, he's starting to get pushback there. Uh, let's listen.

   2. NANarrator36:10

      You gotta get scared that people who are not criminals are getting, like, lassoed up and deported and sent to, like-... El Salvador prison. This is kind of crazy that that could be possible. That's horrific, and that's, again, that's bad for the cause. Like, the cause is, let's get the gang members out, everybody agrees. But let's not... Innocent gay hairdressers getting lumped up with the gangs, and then, like, how long before that guy can get out? Uh, can we, can we figure out how to get him out? Does every- does, is there any plan in place to alert the authorities that they've made a horrible mistake and correct it?

   3. KSKara Swisher36:44

      Sounding somewhat reasonable for Joe Rogan, although, you know, you watch the penny drop slowly with this guy. Um, the administration has acknowledged it deported a man, for example, with protected status to El Salvador because of an administrative error and says they can't get him back. They can invade Greenland, but they can't get him back from people who are paying. Um, again, same thing, haphazard. Um, people do not like the haphazard nature of a lot of these things, like the tariffs, this, the- the- the rollout on things that he actually polls well on. Immigration, for example.

   4. JLJon Lovett37:14

      Yeah, look, (sighs) I mean, (sighs) it's, it's... Uh, forget the politics. What they are doing is despicable. It is despicable. It is despicable. It doesn't serve public safety. Uh, it doesn't serve, uh, the goal of, uh, uh, immigration enforcement, border security. As- as Rogan points out, it- it doesn't serve their own agenda. It's just cruel. It's just evil, and it... There's just not been enough... Like, Rogan has b- had more moral clarity than a lot of Democrats on this, who have scared themselves into believing that if they're talking about immigration, they're falling into a trap, as if the American people cannot handle, uh, a position as simple as, "We believe in enforcing our immigration laws, but we have to have due process because government makes mistakes, and everybody has rights."

   5. KSKara Swisher38:14

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JLJon Lovett38:14

      Right? Like, that's not that complicated an argument.

   7. KSKara Swisher38:17

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JLJon Lovett38:18

      The- the other part of this, and, you know, Liberation Day is now a kind of a- w- obviously we're glib about it.

   9. KSKara Swisher38:26

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   10. JLJon Lovett38:27

       And they've mostly used it to mean tariffs, but they don't just mean tariffs, right? M- Stephen Miller has used it-

   11. KSKara Swisher38:33

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLJon Lovett38:33

       ... to refer to immigration as well. Do we believe that the administration is gonna ramp down deportations? Do we believe the administration is gonna-

   13. KSKara Swisher38:42

       Right.

   14. JLJon Lovett38:42

       ... maintain this level of deportations? They are building, they are building towards greater and greater deportations. Do we believe the number of mistakes will go down-

   15. KSKara Swisher38:50

       No.

   16. JLJon Lovett38:50

       ... as they do this more? Of course not. Of course not. And the, their, the judge, one of the judges that, uh, was looking at this (laughs) said that the Nazis got better treatment under the Alien Enemies Act, uh, in World War II-

   17. KSKara Swisher39:08

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JLJon Lovett39:08

       ... because, she points out, uh, you could accidentally sweep up somebody-

   19. KSKara Swisher39:14

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JLJon Lovett39:14

       ... who's here legally, who's a citizen-

   21. KSKara Swisher39:16

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JLJon Lovett39:16

       They would have no ability to seek recourse.

   23. KSKara Swisher39:19

       Right. Mm-hmm.

   24. JLJon Lovett39:19

       They end up in a gulag in El Salvador-

   25. KSKara Swisher39:21

       Yeah.

   26. JLJon Lovett39:21

       ... and now they can't get out. Now the government is claiming they don't have the ability-

   27. KSKara Swisher39:25

       Yeah.

   28. JLJon Lovett39:25

       ... uh, to bring them home.

   29. KSKara Swisher39:26

       It's just like a movie. I keep, feel like I... A Sylvester Stallone movie. I feel like I... (laughs) Like I've seen these... I, you know, I'm an aficionado of all these kind of movies where someone's in a prison for the wrong reason or they're getting swept up into something silly and then they're stuck. Um...

   30. JLJon Lovett39:40

       I mean, look, look, this, this example, right? Like, they, they, they keep saying, "Oh, you know, we're deporting the most dangerous members-"
7. 46:12 – 52:50

   TikTok Bids

   1. KSKara Swisher46:12

   2. JLJon Lovett46:12

      I am.

   3. KSKara Swisher46:12

      Jon, we're back with more news. President Trump is reportedly reviewing proposals for TikTok, um, this week. Obviously, um, the administration is said to be considering bids from Blackstone, Oracle, and Marc Andreessen. Amazon threw in a last minute bid. It actually makes sense. It's probably not a top contender, but Walmart was in the last go round here. Oracle was too. Uh, the TikTok ban requires no more than 20% of TikTok or its parent companies owned by foreign adversary countries. So, they're thinking about letting ByteDance stand for 19%, apparently. Um, uh, I'd love to know. You use TikTok a lot, correct?

   4. JLJon Lovett46:45

      I do.

   5. KSKara Swisher46:46

      You have... Uh, what, what's the... Well, I'd love to know a day in the life of your For You page. But, um, what, um, what do you think is going to happen here? And, and there was an interesting story, which I think... There's sort of a, a poll that's been cast over for TikTok on this, like, where it's going, who's going to own it. A lot of people feel that if they don't get the algorithm, it's not going to be as good. As a product, it's, it's lagged a little bit recently. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it feels like it a little bit, that people aren't real... The creators aren't putting ev- their shoulders into it the same way. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Um, but what... How do you imagine is going to happen here? I thought Elon might get ahold of it. Maybe not a good idea to give it to Elon right now from a-

   6. JLJon Lovett47:24

      Yeah, I think he seems-

   7. KSKara Swisher47:24

      ... from a perceptible point of view.

   8. JLJon Lovett47:26

      He seems busy.

   9. KSKara Swisher47:27

      Yeah.

   10. JLJon Lovett47:27

       The... I haven't noticed any change in the actual use of the app. It is interesting, um, how much this has become Trump's decision.

   11. KSKara Swisher47:38

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLJon Lovett47:39

       Right? Like, this, the, the, how, how far down the road we've come. We talk about how he wants to be the main decider on tariffs-

   13. KSKara Swisher47:46

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JLJon Lovett47:46

       ... and wants people to come kind of kiss the ring. That's what we're seeing here.

   15. KSKara Swisher47:49

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JLJon Lovett47:49

       Right? This presumably should be ByteDance's decision. (laughs)

   17. KSKara Swisher47:53

       Right. Well, China has to cooperate here and now with these tariffs. I'm not so sure they're feeling cooperative.

   18. JLJon Lovett47:58

       But Trump isn't... Right. Well, that's... And that's, that, that, uh... There was some hope, uh, apparently, on the, uh, the part of the Chinese that TikTok was a bit of leverage in the-

   19. KSKara Swisher48:06

       Yeah

   20. JLJon Lovett48:07

       in the tariffs. ... in the tariff fight, but that, that doesn't appear to have, have, have, have gotten them anything. Um, I don't know what happens with TikTok. I was pretty upset-... about the way this all went down.

   21. KSKara Swisher48:18

       The law itself.

   22. JLJon Lovett48:19

       The law itself, because-

   23. KSKara Swisher48:21

       Right.

   24. JLJon Lovett48:21

       ... uh, uh, there was very little public debate or explanation about why TikTok was so dangerous.

   25. KSKara Swisher48:26

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JLJon Lovett48:26

       And a lot of the explanations were about the harm it does to people, but people didn't seem to mind if that harm was being done to Americans by Americans. Instagram is awful-

   27. KSKara Swisher48:34

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JLJon Lovett48:35

       ... uh, for young people. I think TikTok can be really awful-

   29. KSKara Swisher48:38

       Me too.

   30. JLJon Lovett48:39

       ... for young people.
8. 52:50 – 58:08

   Predictions

   1. KSKara Swisher52:50

      Okay, Jon, let's hear a prediction. Do you have a prediction for us?

   2. JLJon Lovett52:53

      I do have a prediction.

   3. KSKara Swisher52:54

      All right.

   4. JLJon Lovett52:54

      I'm, I'm actually re-upping a prediction that I made before the election-

   5. KSKara Swisher52:57

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JLJon Lovett52:57

      ... but I wanna make it here-

   7. KSKara Swisher52:59

      Go ahead.

   8. JLJon Lovett52:59

      ... because I, I want it on the record, which is-

   9. KSKara Swisher53:01

      Okay.

   10. JLJon Lovett53:01

       I said this last year-

   11. KSKara Swisher53:02

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLJon Lovett53:02

       ... which is that if Donald Trump won, uh, Eric Adams would end up in the Cabinet-

   13. KSKara Swisher53:06

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JLJon Lovett53:07

       ... and I just wanna just lay that down once again-

   15. KSKara Swisher53:10

       Oh.

   16. JLJon Lovett53:10

       ... that I believe that that is the end result of-

   17. KSKara Swisher53:13

       'Cause he'll lose the-

   18. JLJon Lovett53:14

       ... a lot of this.

   19. KSKara Swisher53:14

       ... mayoral election.

   20. JLJon Lovett53:15

       Mm-hmm.

   21. KSKara Swisher53:15

       He's going, he's-

   22. JLJon Lovett53:16

       Mm-hmm.

   23. KSKara Swisher53:16

       He just announced today he's gonna be an independent.

   24. JLJon Lovett53:18

       Mm-hmm.

   25. KSKara Swisher53:19

       'Cause-

   26. JLJon Lovett53:19

       And he's already, he's already started the suck up process with Trump, I just-

   27. KSKara Swisher53:22

       Which, what, what, what job will he get? I guess who are they gonna take out? Kash Patel, or-

   28. JLJon Lovett53:26

       Well, I, I always s- I thought he was always a, I thought he was a, uh, a natural for Homeland Security. That's a natural fit for him, but I could see him at FBI too. We'll see.

   29. KSKara Swisher53:34

       FBI, interesting.

   30. JLJon Lovett53:35

       We'll see. Depends on when the, depends how long Kristi Noem lasts.

Episode duration: 58:08