Why Jensen Huang's Affair with Suspected Chinese Spy Is So Dangerous

Speaker 0:00 AI tonight, as we sit here, is hanging on by a leather jacket.

Kara Swisher 0:04 I like that he dresses like a lesbian, but that's okay. [laughs] [upbeat instrumental music] Hi, everyone. Live from the Buell Theatre in Denver, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Speaker 0:21 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Speaker 0:23 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 0:28 [laughs] Whoa.

Speaker 0:28 [cheering]

Speaker 0:30 Wow. Wow.

Kara Swisher 0:30 Wow. [clapping] Whoa. Ooh. God, wow. Holy Rocky Mountain oysters, wow.

Speaker 0:46 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 0:47 That was great. My son was telling me to eat them this morning. I was like, "As if." Anyway-

Speaker 0:51 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 0:51 ... but you clearly have. Um, that was the loudest of all the cities, I have to say.

Speaker 0:55 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 0:55 You guys win. No, you got... It was. It was. Before we start, I wanna send a big thank you to our title sponsor, beehiiv, the platform for building an audience and a business around your point of view. From newsletters and websites to podcasts and communities, beehiiv brings your content all together in one place. It's where our, uh, our, uh, Pivot post is. We're very-- We love them because they believe in free speech. Anyway-

Speaker 1:19 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 1:19 ... thanks also to official sponsors Tanium and Odoo. Um, we're gonna start with our guest. We've been having guests in lots of cities. We had Hillary Clinton in, in New York. We had, uh-

Speaker 1:30 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 1:30 ... Gavin Newsom yesterday in, uh, in, uh, San Francisco. We had Amy Klobuchar, uh, in Minneapolis. She's their new governor. She's their senator. And, um, we're bringing to you a couple of different people tonight, but the first one, the, the main one, is going to be... Uh, he's been a teacher, a high school principal, and spent eight years in the Colorado State Senate before becoming the 46th mayor of Denver. He's also running for a second term next year. Please welcome Denver

Kara Swisher 1:57 Mayor Mike Johnston.

Speaker 1:58 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 2:11 Thank you. Oh. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2:14 We pretty much just dropped the mic on you with the welcome, huh?

Kara Swisher 2:16 Yes, you won.

Speaker 2:16 That's why everyone comes to Denver.

Kara Swisher 2:17 You won.

Speaker 2:18 Well done, Denver. Thank you.

Kara Swisher 2:19 Denver, go ahead Denver.

Speaker 2:19 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 2:21 So I'm gonna start with an easy one. Uh-

Speaker 2:24 Great

Kara Swisher 2:24 ... as we tape, Lauren Boebert's House race [laughs]

Speaker 2:32 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 2:32 [laughs] Uh, still isn't called. She's down a few thousand votes, far outside the automatic recount range. Her lawyers are alleging unusual voting patterns, which-

Speaker 2:43 [booing]

Kara Swisher 2:44 Okay, whatever happens. Um, does... Talk a little bit about this. Does she hurt trust in Colorado's elections? I'm looking up a tweet. I mean, not a tweet. I, I'm not on that fucking Twitter. Um-

Speaker 2:56 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 2:57 But, uh, I'm looking up something, uh, that I sent. But does she hurt Colorado's elections and trust in it? And it, and, and whose job is it to defend the system? 'Cause this is a, you know, this is a state that has a range of different political persuasions.

Speaker 3:10 Uh, I think she's hurt people's trust in Colorado-

Kara Swisher 3:12 Oh, okay

Speaker 3:12 ... is what she's done, uh-

Kara Swisher 3:14 Yeah

Speaker 3:14 ... as a brand. Uh, actually, she's no stranger to this performing arts complex, in fact. Um-

Speaker 3:19 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 3:19 Oh, is it here?

Speaker 3:20 Yes, it-

Kara Swisher 3:21 Is it here?

Speaker 3:21 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 3:23 Wait a minute.

Speaker 3:25 Um-

Kara Swisher 3:25 What seat? Wait, what seat? What seat?

Speaker 3:27 Uh-

Kara Swisher 3:28 Which, which seat?

Speaker 3:29 Sh- sh-

Kara Swisher 3:29 Who's in it?

Speaker 3:30 She's not here currently because the last-

Kara Swisher 3:32 No, but who's sitting in her seat? And I assume-

Speaker 3:34 The last time she was here-

Kara Swisher 3:35 Yeah

Speaker 3:35 ... um-

Kara Swisher 3:36 This was the theater?

Speaker 3:37 She's not here currently. The last time she was here, she had to be escorted out by security for some inappropriate behavior.

Kara Swisher 3:42 This was that theater. This was here.

Speaker 3:42 That was at this performing ops, uh, arts complex, yes.

Kara Swisher 3:44 Oh.

Speaker 3:45 So funny that you started that as your first question.

Kara Swisher 3:47 Well, it's not funny.

Speaker 3:48 I'm surprised you-

Kara Swisher 3:49 I'm gonna read-

Speaker 3:49 ... knew the Denver inside joke

Kara Swisher 3:50 ... this is one of them. "Lauren Boebert is refusing to concede the election. You gotta give her credit. She tries to keep a grip on things until she gets a happy ending."

Speaker 3:58 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 3:58 "Personally, I think it's gonna end messy."

Speaker 4:00 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 4:01 So anyway, what... But seriously, I mean, it, it is an embarrass... I mean, what is gonna happen here?

Speaker 4:07 Oh, I, I... We have great faith in our elections that the votes will be counted. It will be clear that she's the loser, and she'll have to exit stage left, as she did once before.

Kara Swisher 4:15 Yeah.

Speaker 4:16 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 4:17 And tell me why you think... I mean, she was, she moved from another area that she was losing in to another candidate-

Speaker 4:23 They did, yes

Kara Swisher 4:24 ... to a safer area. And obviously, what happened here, from your perspective?

Speaker 4:28 She's run out of congressional districts to find where she can win in Colorado-

Kara Swisher 4:31 Mm-hmm

Speaker 4:31 ... I think is what happened. Um-

Kara Swisher 4:32 Right

Speaker 4:33 ... but I think, you know, we were surprised that people didn't see it as more of a grift when she moved across the state and adopted it as a home, as a place where she could win. Uh, and I think those voters felt like she broke those same promises and said we were ready for change. And so I think it was part of the wave you saw across the country. But, you know, we, we, uh, almost took all eight congressional districts here in Colorado. We took back seven of the eight congressional districts-

Speaker 4:53 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 4:54 Mm-hmm

Speaker 4:54 ... which is remarkable.

Kara Swisher 4:55 Mm-hmm. So-

Speaker 4:56 Places like Colorado Springs that have n- I don't think have had a Democratic congr- congressperson in our lifetime will now be represented by a Democrat.

Kara Swisher 5:03 So is it a permanent thing, or is it just she's so, uh, uh, such an unpleasant political figure?

Speaker 5:08 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 5:09 Amusing, but unpleasant.

Speaker 5:11 Is, is it a permanent state of being for her?

Kara Swisher 5:12 It, it, it, no, it's... No, I don't-

Speaker 5:14 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 5:15 No, but I mean the idea that, uh, flipping these seats permanently.

Speaker 5:20 Oh, I mean, I, I think that, uh, this election around the country and in Colorado was about, uh, a vote of anger, not yet a vote of trust.

Kara Swisher 5:29 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5:29 I think trust we have to earn.

Kara Swisher 5:30 Right.

Speaker 5:30 And trust we have to earn by delivering on the promises that we've made. Um-

Speaker 5:34 [clapping]

Kara Swisher 5:35 So, um, l- let's talk about how to do that. M- uh, immigration made you a national name. Under Biden, migrants poured into Denver, and you said the city was near its breaking point. Under Trump, you said Denver moms might turn out to protect, uh, immigrants. Um, his border czar threatened to jail you, and you ended up testifying before Congress and suing the administration. You begged Washington for help and fought Washington off. Um, I'd love to know a couple things. Uh, and tonight on 60 Minutes, in a rather soft interview of Donald Trump, um, uh, though that he did say he thought he maybe was too tough- On immigration, which was-

Speaker 6:13 Was.

Kara Swisher 6:13 Uh, exactly, right? Maybe? I don't know. Yeah. Um, what, what should Democrats learn from that before they take over, and maybe reflect on the maybe too tough?

Speaker 6:23 Yeah, I think that one of the reasons why Americans were so angry is they don't like to be taken for fools. And I think that, you know, you- they expect you to give a straight answer and keep your word, and Trump didn't do that. He said he was gonna use ICE officers to round up violent criminals around the country. Instead, what he did is used ICE officers to kill innocent civilians in American cities like Minneapolis. He used it to arrest elementary school teachers, and wives of US Marines, and dads going to the NICU to drop off milk. That was not what America ever signed up for. Uh, and I think when he did that, they were furious. And so when we said, "We think Denverites will stand up and protest," we were right. But was even more impressive was Denverites also stood up in service, which is when the governor of Texas sent 40,000 immigrants to this city-

Kara Swisher 7:08 Mm-hmm

Speaker 7:08 ... in the middle of the night.

Kara Swisher 7:09 He's not the governor of Texas anymore.

Speaker 7:10 [cheering]

Speaker 7:14 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 7:14 Almost. Almost.

Speaker 7:15 It turn- it turns out, turns out he tried to send a bunch of Latinos packing from Texas, and a bunch of Latinos sent him packing from Texas-

Kara Swisher 7:21 Yeah

Speaker 7:21 ... it turns out.

Speaker 7:22 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 7:24 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7:24 Uh, but, uh, but when those folks arrived, I think this city showed up, uh, in tremendous ways, and people brought people into their homes. They, they cooked people breakfast. They found people jobs, and we were able to get those folks successfully to work. They're now, you know, paying rent, paying taxes, working and supporting the city. And so I think our belief was the American spirit was always, if you arrive here and you're willing to work hard, you can find a way. Uh, that was true for these folks, too. And I think, uh, Trump made a dramatically wrong bet on how Americans would see people that showed up in their communities willing to work.

Kara Swisher 7:54 This happened during Japanese internment with your governor.

Speaker 7:56 Yeah, Colorado has a real history of this, right?

Kara Swisher 7:58 Right.

Speaker 7:58 I mean, our citizen of the century for the 20th century is Ralph Carr-

Kara Swisher 8:02 Mm-hmm

Speaker 8:02 ... uh, who is the governor who opposed-

Speaker 8:04 [cheering]

Speaker 8:05 ... who opposed Japanese internment and said it- it's un-

Kara Swisher 8:07 It would not

Speaker 8:07 ... it's un-American.

Kara Swisher 8:08 Right.

Speaker 8:08 Uh, and I think he lost election over that.

Kara Swisher 8:10 He did lose.

Speaker 8:10 But he knew he was right.

Kara Swisher 8:11 Yeah.

Speaker 8:11 Uh, and I think that there were a lot of us who believed this was the right thing to do, whether it was the popular thing to do or not in America. And, you know, and Trump said that if you... That all these immigrants, Abbott and Trump thought would, would tear Denver apart. It would increase crime. It would increase homelessness. As the city that received the most migrants of any city in the country per capita, in those same two years, we delivered the largest drop in homicide of any city in the country and the largest drop in homelessness of any city in the country at the same time.

Kara Swisher 8:37 So what do Democrats need to do now?

Speaker 8:39 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 8:42 What, what do Democrats need to do now to continue that? I mean, obviously, obviously the citiz- citizens were upset about the borders.

Speaker 8:50 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 8:50 Um, and, and, and, and Trump took advantage of that and then overstepped, as is his way. But what, what is-- what do Democrats need to do to stress that they're interested in this issue, but not the way this was done?

Speaker 9:04 I mean, we were clear from the beginning, we will absolutely collaborate with anyone to round up violent criminals in this city, no matter where they come from.

Kara Swisher 9:11 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 9:11 We don't care if they come from Cleveland or Caracas. If you're committing a crime in here, we will charge you. We will prosecute you. We will hold you accountable. That's always true. We still, uh, partner with other... We, we have a task force that still disrupts international drug trafficking, uh, or other gang-affiliated crimes. So we believe that's entirely true. But we think what is also true is that people want to have a path to citizenship. If you're here and working hard and playing by the rules, that is the American dream. You know, the, the study shows that about 93% of the folks the Trump administration has rounded up had no violent criminal charges at all.

Kara Swisher 9:43 Right.

Speaker 9:43 Two-thirds had actually no criminal charges of any sort. Uh, they literally ha- hadn't jaywalked. Literally all they had was the status offense. And so what we know is those folks support our communities. They add to our economy. Uh, we want them to be successful. There should be a secure border. People should be held accountable for violent crimes. If you're working hard and playing by the rules, we should say, "Thank you," and put you back to work.

Kara Swisher 10:03 All right. Scott?

Speaker 10:03 [cheering]

Scott Galloway 10:09 So Lauren Boebert's district is the reddest district in Colorado, and quite frankly, it's unlikely it'll stay blue. And if we want this blue wave to turn into... Uh, the way I would describe it is we're renting these voters. We don't own them. And I worry that the mistake that Democrats are gonna make is we're gonna get so hopped up on watching C-SPAN, and revenge, and accountability, that we're not going to capture the swing voters that are primarily focused on getting a home, getting a job, forming a family. What-- Uh, I'll go to the hot topic, 41 of 42 ballot measures, uh, to restrict, uh, data centers passed. Very anti-data center.

Scott Galloway 10:51 I look at Colorado, and I see cold weather. I see a lot of power generation. I see big expanses of land not near schools or, or public parks. Why wouldn't Colorado be the Saudi Arabia of the digital age and say, "Come one, come all," for data centers?

Speaker 11:08 I think there are-- Uh, we put a more-

Scott Galloway 11:10 That went over well.

Speaker 11:11 [laughing]

Speaker 11:13 Um, overwhelming support from your audience. Uh, the, uh... I think what we believe is that there are real concerns. As you may know, in Colorado also, we say, you know, "Whiskey's for drinking and water's for fighting" in Colorado because this is a state with a major drought. We are worried about any entity that uses a quarter of a million gallons of water a day is a major problem for the state.

Speaker 11:32 [cheering]

Speaker 11:32 Um, and so, uh, so, you know, it's not to say that they shouldn't exist someplace. We put a moratorium on them in the city and county of Denver, uh, until we're able to get our hands around... You know, right now they were use by rights, so anyone could just buy a piece of land and put up a data center there. We think-

Scott Galloway 11:46 Yeah

Speaker 11:46 ... that's not the right way to go about doing business. We think if a data center exists, it should make everyone's utility bills cheaper and not more expensive. Uh, they should be required to bring their own energy, and that energy should be renewable. Um, and they should make sure they have a self-contained system that doesn't use water. And I think there are places that do that, but the places that do that well need 500 acres to do that. I don't think you're gonna put that in the middle of a residential neighborhood. And so I think we're working on a, a task force that will make recommendations for what to do in the city. I think there are places in the state where it could be a real economic boom to smaller, to smaller towns, but those places should expect there's something in it for, as a benefit for their residents-

Kara Swisher 12:23 Right, and a lot of, a lot of it-

Speaker 12:24 ... not as a cost to them.

Kara Swisher 12:24 A lot of it was done via NDAs. I, I'm- I'm a little more conservative on this issue than he is. I do- I think the way they did it, whether it was Kevin O'Leary in, in Utah, uh, just forcing it and calling the people who are, are against him Chinese agents, uh, whether it was Elon spewing toxic fumes in Tennessee, the way... And, or Facebook down in Louisiana, all NDAs, all secretive, all forcing, uh, forcing it through without community is just the absolute wrong way to do it, and very typical of these people, that they just come in and tell you they're here to help, and then do whatever they feel like ultimately. And I think that's more the problem, whether... And it should be done with local community input and, in fact, control.

Speaker 13:10 People expect to have a say, and they have a right to have a say on what gets put in their neighborhood, and so I think that's the most important priority for us. And I think, uh, our folks are not opposed if it's done the right way. Three blocks from here, there's a data center. You would never know it's an adaptive reuse inside of an empty commercial building that's the Power and Light Building. Uh, but it is, uh, it's been there for 20 years. It's not a hyper-scaling data center that uses a ton of water. It doesn't create noise for the neighbors. It doesn't, uh, I think, raise people's utility rates. So there are ways to find the right balance, but I think Americans are right to say, "We expect to get a fair trade out of this deal," and that wasn't happening before.

Kara Swisher 13:43 Right. So one of the other issues you've been able to make a big impact is on street homelessness. The number of people living on Denver's streets is down 64%, and big encampments are down 91%. [audience applauding] Um, uh, your, your approach,

Kara Swisher 13:57 police clear the camps, then you make sure there's actually somewhere to send people, like tiny homes or converted hotels. Los Angeles and San Francisco have struggled with this issue. I, I would say San Francisco's doing a lot better. I, I, I'm from San Francisco, and it's changed perceptually under Daniel Lurie, who's the mayor there. Los Angeles yesterday was pretty tough. I was, I was surpri- It's better, but it's really s- quite still a real problem there. Talk about what you're doing. Um, your shelters were built with federal, uh, ARPA funds and won't re-up, and Trump is trying to cut housing aid on top of that. So how do you keep this going?

Speaker 14:29 Yeah, I, I think, uh, our first belief was we want-- We took this on 'cause it was the biggest humanitarian crisis in the city. No first world city should have people freezing to death on their streets in the middle of the night, um, and that should be- [audience applauding] Um, that should be an accepted truth. Uh, and I think the biggest fear was that people had come to believe that this problem was unsolvable, that people had just given up to the belief that every American city is gonna have giant tent encampments in front of post offices and grocery stores, and we believe that's not the case. And so this whole city pulled together to prove we could do something different, um, and, and we're proud of that. Um, and we also know, uh, the work is not done. But for us, there were a couple of core commitments that mattered. One is the first thing is you have to get folks off the streets into transitional housing. You gotta bring on a lot of units to do that. We brought on about 1,200 units in six months, and we had to do a lot of cutting of regulations and red tape to make that move faster. Then was to move people off the streets and not sweep encampments from block to block, but actually close them, and close them by moving all the folks that are in that encampment into, into transitional housing. And then in each of those transitional housing sites, we offer wraparound services. So you have mental health support, addiction support, workforce training, long-term housing. Uh, and then our equal commitment to the residents of the city is there has to be something in this for the rest of the residents as well as the folks that are suffering. So whenever we would close an encampment, the commitment is we would not ever let another encampment return to that block or that neighborhood. And so block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood, we were able to close those encampments around the city. And I'd be the first to say the work is not done. I mean, we have the benefit of making it farther than any other city has, that 64% reduction, but I often say we know that the, the last 36% of folks we're serving will be tougher than the la- than the first 64. These are folks with-

Kara Swisher 16:09 And, and w- when th- this money is cut, uh, what happens? And this doesn't look like an administration that's gonna be particularly cooperative in the next two years.

Speaker 16:15 Y- Yeah, we've taken, uh, significant federal and state cuts, and the biggest challenge for that is it cuts our path for people to get into permanent housing. So we can get them off the streets into one of our tiny home villages or our hotels, but they need permanent housing, the same way a first-year teacher needs housing or a server in the city needs housing. And so the biggest impact of the federal government is to have cut that, that housing opportunity. I think the big idea for the new Congress, what they should do, is pursue, you know, what I would call the American Housing Promise. And it has to be a very concrete promise to say, "Listen, we're about 10 to 15 million homes short in this country. We should say we're gonna build 10 to 15 million homes over the next 10 years so that every American can say they can live in a house where they don't pay more than 30% of what they make to rent." Um, and you could do that- [audience applauding] You could do that by partnering with the federal government and with cities. Say there's a d- there's a bargain. If cities have to do their part, we have to cut red tape. We have to make sure permitting goes faster. Uh, we have to make sure we invest with local resources ourselves. We have to have pro-housing policies, like more density around transit and other things that make sense. But when we do that, the federal government will match it by saying, "You know, we'll do $35,000 to $50,0000 a door for every unit that you need to meet your goals of affordability." And you think, "Oh, that sounds like a crazy idea." No, the, the federal government could do that in this Congress for less than the cost of the Iran war. They c- um [audience applauding] I tend to believe if, if we can find the dollars to bomb homes in Iran, we ought to be able to find the dollars to build homes in Denver. That seems like a reasonable proposition. [audience applauding] You, I mean, you, you could do it for, you could do it for less than the cost of the ICE surge. You could do it for far less than the cost of the Trump tax credits. Like, these are accomplishable, reasonable, ambitious goals, but these are the kind of things Democrats will have to actually deliver on that's not a program you never heard of or couldn't name or can't remember, but one that you can see a direct impact on units opening in your city that house your friends and your family and your neighbors who will otherwise not be able to stay in the city. That's where we have to deliver.

Kara Swisher 18:14 One of the things you also push is universal childcare-

Speaker 18:16 Yes

Kara Swisher 18:16 ... which is a big thing of mine. If I was running for president-

Speaker 18:19 Yes

Kara Swisher 18:19 ... it would be, I'd like executive order the shit out of that.

Speaker 18:22 Yes.

Kara Swisher 18:22 Um, and I think most, not just women, no, most all parents understand that's the big issue. Even if you have- ... money. It's a p- you know, and most people don't. Um, talk a little bit about this. What are the specifics? And, uh, i- i- it's interesting that you're putting up the idea of universal childcare, homelessness, immigration. It feels like you might be running for higher office.

Speaker 18:43 I'm not. [laughs]

Speaker 18:43 [laughs]

Speaker 18:44 I'm not. I love this office.

Kara Swisher 18:45 What? You're not?

Speaker 18:46 I said I love this office. No, I'm not. Um, but-

Kara Swisher 18:48 Okay. Mayor for life?

Speaker 18:49 [laughs] Maybe not that either. Well, we'll see how long my wife can handle this. Um, uh, but I, I do think that when we talk about pro-growth for cities, I mean, I had two very heartbreaking conversations on this childcare. One was talking to a 33-year-old Black guy, engineer. I think his race is relevant in this story. He and his wife went through college, both have good jobs, good degrees, and he said, "We've been talking about, for the last, you know, f- few months, whether or not we want to have kids. And we both really want to have kids, and we have decided we're not gonna have kids 'cause we don't think we can afford to have kids in this city and raise them here." Uh, in the same way, I talked to a woman a week ago who was asking me some very pointed questions about the budget. I was at a, at a play date, and I was like, "This isn't, you're not an amateur budget analyst." She's like, "No, no, I, I, I teach high school chemistry." And she stops and, "Well, actually, I used to teach high school chemistry, uh, until we had our second kid, and I couldn't afford to pay two slots of childcare, so I'm not teaching anymore." Like, we can't afford to lose talented people from the city, and you can't lose talented people from the workforce if you don't do this. We, uh, believe there's a path to, to do this in a very practical way.

Kara Swisher 19:57 For everybody.

Speaker 19:58 For everybody, zero to five, so we would do it from birth up to kindergarten. We already have it in Denver for four-year-olds. It's called the Denver Preschool Program. And yes, the Denver Preschool Program. [clapping] Uh, and what makes it wonderful is our proposal is different than those you see in New York or others, which is ours is a sliding scale system, which is we don't propose that what you'd say is whether you m- if you make 10 million a year, we're also gonna subsidize all of your childcare. What we say is no one should have to pay more than about 7% of what they make to childcare. Most people now pay maybe 30, 40% for their rent, another 20, 30% of their income for childcare. That's impossible. So, what we would do is propose a sliding scale system where there is some public subsidy, uh, but also people pay what they can based on their income. That makes it far easier for tax dollars to go a lot farther and us to get to a lot more kids a lot faster. And so we're gonna work this year designing the system. We'll pilot it next year with the hope we can scale it in '28, and we might be one of the first cities to get to a truly universal program from birth all the way up to age 18.

Kara Swisher 20:53 Very last question from me. Uh, uh, there's all these pretty cool mayors around, and we got Dan... and all different. Daniel Lurie is very different from, of course, top mayor, New York, uh, Mamdani, uh, who's the most popular,

Kara Swisher 21:05 um, right now. Whether you like him or not, he's very prominent and stuff. There's all kinds of mayors all over, all over the place, um, of different kinds. Do you all hang out?

Speaker 21:15 [laughs]

Speaker 21:16 [laughs]

Speaker 21:16 We, not only do we hang out, we have a text chain.

Kara Swisher 21:19 Yeah.

Speaker 21:19 Uh, yeah, we have, we have a group chat. Um, I think because it's actually, it can be a lonely job, but it also-

Kara Swisher 21:24 Right

Speaker 21:24 ... is a really rewarding job. And, um, it is a job where you're ultimately accountable for delivering results every day, and that's a different kind of stress than being a senator or a congressperson where you can host a press conference and blame somebody else. Um, in this job, you fundamentally have to just fix it-

Kara Swisher 21:39 Yeah

Speaker 21:39 ... or it's your fault. And so people get real practical real fast on, you know... So every one of the folks you've named-

Kara Swisher 21:45 Yeah

Speaker 21:45 ... I talk to regularly to either ask for ideas from or to share ideas with. Uh, and so yeah, mayors feel like the last bastion of kind of nonpartisan, get-shit-done people-

Kara Swisher 21:53 Right

Speaker 21:53 ... and it's fun to work with them.

Kara Swisher 21:54 So you have Republican ones, too, in the-

Speaker 21:55 We do. Yeah, absolutely.

Kara Swisher 21:56 You have Republican... Who is, who is, who is the most annoying texter?

Speaker 21:59 [laughs]

Speaker 22:00 [laughs]

Speaker 22:02 Uh, there are not that many. You have to just sort of, sometimes you'll get 20 or 30 texts, and you gotta just skip them and go to the bottom.

Kara Swisher 22:07 Uh-huh.

Speaker 22:08 Um, but some people have more time than others. Um, but the [laughs]

Speaker 22:11 [laughs]

Speaker 22:12 But the ones that, that don't have a lot of time always have good ideas.

Kara Swisher 22:15 Who, who was that? Who was that?

Speaker 22:15 [laughs]

Speaker 22:17 [laughs] I can't remember. I scroll through those texts too often.

Kara Swisher 22:19 Oh, okay. [laughs]

Speaker 22:20 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 22:21 In any case, uh, let's have a round of applause for M- Mayor Mike Johnston.

Speaker 22:24 Thanks for having me.

Kara Swisher 22:25 Thank you.

Speaker 22:25 [clapping] [upbeat music]

Kara Swisher 22:31 Support for this show comes from Beehiiv. In today's media landscape, it's not only possible to create a different connection with your audience, it's necessary. Your people are out there. Beehiiv helps you find them. With Beehiiv, you can build an ongoing connection with readers who care about your work. For journalists, experts, and anyone with a perspective to share, that relationship is valuable, and it's something you should own. Beehiiv helps you build your own brand and subscriber list, giving you more control over how you reach your audience, which is critical. Visit beehiiv.com/pivot, that's B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com/pivot, and start building your newsletter today.

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Kara Swisher 24:05 [swish] Scott, we're back.

Speaker 24:09 [clapping] [cheering] [whistling]

Kara Swisher 24:13 [laughs] Oh, good.

Speaker 24:17 Yeah, that's good.

Kara Swisher 24:17 Thank

Kara Swisher 24:18 you. Um, NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang has admitted to an affair with a woman, uh, who US intelligence believes was a Chinese spy. You literally can't make this up NVIDIA's board was inve- he is the top AI executive in probably the world. NVIDIA's board is investigating, but already says it has full confidence in him. Wow, they've already not investigated, but they've decided that. [audience laughing] That's really interesting. Silicon Valley boards are such unctuous toadies. Anyway, the problem is Huang has been Washington's loudest voice for selling AI chips to China, and that's what the alleged spy was reportedly recruited to push. Um, it's so problematic on so many levels. Uh, if any other CEO had an affair with a suspected Chinese spy, they'd be gone yesterday. And of course, the company tried to downplay it and pretend it wasn't happening. Then oh wait, it was, and then he released a statement saying, you know, "Please give me privacy for my family." And I'm like, "No, you asshole. No." [audience laughing] This is a big deal. Um, he's been very tight with the Trump administration. Now we understand why, when they took a trip to China, he was left off the flight and then brought back on in Alaska, uh, because Trump is now saying, um, it's okay, he probab- it's fine for him to do it. Trump apparently knew about this, and it's not clear whether they told Jensen Huang she was a spy or not right now. So there's a lot of questions here. Uh, but is Jensen too big to fire, and should Washington still trust him on issues around China, besides the personal sloppiness? So...

Scott Galloway 25:54 [sighs] It's a lot here. So first off, I think they blew an opportunity. He should have just said, "Same last name, that's my wife."

Speaker 26:00 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 26:01 Um, so just some...

Speaker 26:04 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 26:06 Right? Missed opportunity.

Kara Swisher 26:08 Her name is, I think, Alice Huang.

Scott Galloway 26:08 Okay, so just some, just some insight, and this will be illuminating. Sometimes men make bad decisions with their dick.

Speaker 26:17 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 26:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:20 I think a decent form of evolution would be every time a man has an erection, it looks like a tombstone, and it says, "Good judgment. Born ten million years ago. Died the same day."

Speaker 26:32 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 26:33 Look, this, this... As you get more powerful, you start believing, you start mistaking kindness for sexual interest. And this is, as Kara said, the CEOs of McDonald's, Nestle, and Intel were fired for relationships that didn't involve security concerns. This is literally shipping potentially uranium or nuclear secrets to the CCP. And this reflects a couple things. One, not only I think Jensen's mistake is meaningful, but the profound mistake is supposedly there's rumors that the administration had intel on this and didn't warn him because they wanted to keep the revenue and the stock price flowing. So I see this as a defense department... Look, if we're thinking that men aren't gonna continue to make-- uh, and, and they should face the ramifications, this is gonna continue to happen. It always happens. I've served on a lot of public boards. I point that out because I'm desperate for your affirmation.

Speaker 27:27 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 27:28 But we deal with this all the time, and the general rule on a board is below a certain level, you put young people in a closed space [laughs] working hard, they're gonna pair up. One in three relationships begins at work, and that's actually a wonderful thing. Once you get above a certain level, your fly is up and locked, boss, and anything resembling an affair... Now, this wasn't in the company. This was a supplier. But a supplier who was potentially selling-

Kara Swisher 27:53 No, not a supplier. It was someone they were selling chips to, and they may have taken the chips and sent them to China.

Scott Galloway 27:58 A customer.

Kara Swisher 27:58 Customer.

Scott Galloway 27:59 Excuse me. A customer who was potentially putting these very sophisticated, uh, chips in, uh, in potentially that were being using, uh, processing for Chinese companies which we wouldn't ordinarily sell to. This is what we have, and this is the gap, and I see it not only-- I see it as a failure of governance, and it's the following. When you're talking about a company like NVIDIA or OpenAI, you're talking about nuclear weapons. You're talking about uranium. You're talking about CIA, Langley, Defense Department, Pentagon level risk, and we have WeWork-like security.

Speaker 28:34 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 28:36 And just, just the extraordinarily extraordinary level of poor judgment for this individual. And I want to be clear, like, uh, you know, "I've always made good decisions around this type of thing," said no man ever.

Speaker 28:53 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 28:54 This is... And you can empathize, but this, in my opinion, this involves national security. Now, here's the issue from a governance standpoint. It was very interesting. Today, they said he's going to continue to operate as CEO, and they've hired a special counsel to investigate it. Typically on a board, what you would do in anything of this gravity, you would ask him to take a leave of absence until you got the report back from the independent counsel. And here's, here's what's going on.

Speaker 29:19 [clapping]

Scott Galloway 29:21 And I think, I, I think I have some insight into this. The board is human, and I did some research on the board today. And it's a group of what I'll call the talented, accomplished executives, but not what you would typically see on the board of the most-

Kara Swisher 29:37 Yeah, I don't know one of them

Scott Galloway 29:37 ... valuable company in the world.

Kara Swisher 29:39 I, I don't know one. They're mid-level.

Scott Galloway 29:40 So example, uh, and I don't, I... We give CEOs scrutiny. I don't think board members get enough scrutiny. Dawn Hudson, talented woman. She was a senior executive at Pepsi. Her last job was eight years ago. She was the CMO of the NFL. That's a real job. Not dissing her. She's probably not-- She's probably made a good living, but she's probably not a wealthy woman. I looked, I looked at the filings. She's made eighty million dollars in NVIDIA options the last eight years. So it-- Let me ask you this. If you're on the board, and you're flying private, and you have just an extraordinary life because of your role on this board and because of Jensen, aren't you gonna find a lot of reasons why you're gonna forgive Jensen? And this is what happens on boards, and this is why you need mandatory churn on boards, is typically the CEO is the most char-- He's the rush chairman. He's a really likable guy. And let's be honest, it's almost always a he. Eighty percent of the time, it's a he. And he purposely cherry-picks people who are smart. But that's who they play golf with, that's who they know. And if you've made someone $80 million that left a job probably at $600,000 a year as the CMO of the NFL, and you haven't had a full-time job in eight years, you really think that person's gonna be focused on national security?

Kara Swisher 30:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:55 So I worry, uh, I think this is a failure of governance. We need mandatory... The NSA, the CIA should be screening every employee at these companies.

Kara Swisher 31:05 Of these kind of companies.

Scott Galloway 31:06 And, and just, just, uh, I've been on the board of only, of two companies where there was quote-unquote "sensitive information." Just as we need to have very open and raw conversations with our sons, you need to have raw conversations with the CEO and just say, "Boss, assume if a woman's interested in you, she's a spy."

Kara Swisher 31:22 [laughs]

Speaker 31:24 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 31:24 Yeah. So let me, let me interject, because it's, it's bigger than that. A- it's not just, it's not just this board, which I think is, I would say Bs. It's a lot of Bs. Uh-

Scott Galloway 31:33 Yeah

Kara Swisher 31:34 ... some Cs. Um, and, and weak, designed to be weak so he can run it and wear his other jackets, et cetera.

Scott Galloway 31:39 That's how a lot of boards work. A lot, it's how-

Kara Swisher 31:41 Yeah, I get it

Scott Galloway 31:41 ... a lot of CEOs do

Kara Swisher 31:41 But some boards have some pretty prominent people on them.

Scott Galloway 31:43 Agree.

Kara Swisher 31:43 Uh, uh, and this doesn't have any. I was sort of s- 'cause you go to Google, there's some big names and, and strong-

Scott Galloway 31:48 Yeah

Kara Swisher 31:48 ... per- figures. So this is from Bill Ackman, my least favorite person. Uh, you know you like him. An alert, Jensen Huang-

Scott Galloway 31:54 Wait, you said you know I like him?

Kara Swisher 31:56 No, you like him, don't you?

Scott Galloway 31:57 I like Bill?

Kara Swisher 31:57 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:57 I think he's a good investor.

Kara Swisher 31:58 Well, okay. I think he's nervous-

Scott Galloway 31:59 You sh- we're, we're in a purple state. We're not in Woke-istan. Just like-

Kara Swisher 32:02 No, we're not in Woke-istan. But this guy... No, no, no. We'll, we'll have a Bill Ackman discussion later, but-

Scott Galloway 32:07 I think he's a great investor. I don't like his politics.

Kara Swisher 32:09 Okay, fine. He's a good investor. I don't really care what he thinks about DEI, and he should hush up about it. But nonetheless, um-

Scott Galloway 32:14 As we do. We're so me-

Kara Swisher 32:16 I don't, I don't go on and on-

Scott Galloway 32:16 We're so measured

Kara Swisher 32:17 Can I just say, I don't go on and on about hedge fund investing. He should, like, back off about the media thing and-

Scott Galloway 32:22 We talk about business and investing all the time

Kara Swisher 32:24 Whatever. Anyway, so I'm gonna read what he said on this topic. "Jensen Huang is a human, and he's an incredible human. Even incredible humans make mistakes. He takes full responsibility as he should," which he didn't. "We should all support him and his family onward."

Speaker 32:39 Oh.

Kara Swisher 32:39 Onward, okay? The US government thinks she's a Chinese spy, and these people have lost the narrative and lost the, the, lost the n- the message of the recent election, which was about accou- accountability. This is a self-interested take by a Wall Street person who's done well. What's coming? Shareholder lawsuits, congressional investigations, endless scrutiny, and, and this, at the same time, a lot of... He, he is at the center hub of a lot of investments, he just made $3 billion investment in Meta, of this sort of round-tripping circle jerk that's happening among all the AI companies. This is a bigger top- this could has, could-

Scott Galloway 33:17 It's much bigger

Kara Swisher 33:17 ... it, it has implications. Do you think, uh, and they're, and I think they're gonna circle the wagons on him, even though they shouldn't. It, it puts them at risk, like a, a Meta or a, or any of these people, or OpenAI, wherever he has these different deals that are happening. Should he be... And getting to the White House thing, what did they know? When did they know it? Et cetera needs to happen. But what does it do to the bigger industry? Because this guy is at the dead hot center, and they're gonna use every single excuse to say, "Well, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife and shouldn't have been with a spy," and, oh, the congressional hearings, and maybe they stole chips in China. A- and these are the people who scream bloody murder about China all the time and how we have to compete with China, and now he- they're gonna give him a pass on this.

Scott Galloway 34:03 He's, he's, uh, I like Jensen. I don't know him personally. I've only met him a couple times. I think he's a reasonable guy. I think he's an outstanding professional. I think he's only human, and he makes mistakes, and I think only humans who make this type of mistake should be fired summarily. I mean-

Speaker 34:14 [applause]

Kara Swisher 34:16 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 34:16 How many people have been fired? How many people have been fired for less than selling exceptionally sensitive hardware to our adversaries?

Kara Swisher 34:24 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 34:25 I mean, for God's sakes, it's not the worst thing in the world. By the way, I would like to hire Lauren Boebert as a nanny, too.

Speaker 34:30 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 34:32 Too. I heard, I did some research into Jensen today. He met his wife. He-- I love this story. He went up to her and said, "If you study with me every Sunday, I guarantee you straight A's." So as someone who's going through some tumult in terms of my own kids, I wanna offer him a job as a tutor, a private tutor.

Kara Swisher 34:48 [laughs]

Speaker 34:48 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 34:49 For God's sakes, we're gonna talk about like this is some big fucking tragedy. He's worth $180 billion. Get the fuck out. You're gonna be just fine.

Kara Swisher 34:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 34:57 And then our government-

Speaker 34:57 [applause]

Scott Galloway 34:58 And then our government... And there's probably, you can't build a $5 trillion company without having an amazing bench. Let's churn. Let's bring some new people in. The greatest thing about this election was we brought some new people in.

Kara Swisher 35:10 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 35:10 He's gonna be just fine, and then we need standards for these companies that say, every time you have a relationship with anybody, anybody who gets hired, any vendor, runs a security check to make sure they're not fucking spies.

Kara Swisher 35:24 All right. So what, talk about the impact, 'cause a lot of people feel this could be one of these tipping minutes with-

Scott Galloway 35:30 AI tonight, as we sit here, is hanging on by a leather jacket.

Kara Swisher 35:34 Right. [laughs]

Speaker 35:36 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 35:37 I like that he dresses like a lesbian, but that's okay.

Speaker 35:40 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 35:41 You know. Um, I'm just looking at one more thing, uh, that Trump, what someone, uh, Ian Bremmer had noted that this is incredible that Trump is giving him a pass here. Why do you think Trump is doing that?

Scott Galloway 35:51 The only bright spot in the Trump universe is the S&P. That's it. And the only thing, 40% of the S&P is seven companies. Five of those seven are directly focused on AI. So as goes AI, as goes the S&P, as goes the only bright spot of the Trump presidency. So what do you know when, when someone comes out at OpenAI, or excuse me, at Anthropic, and says, a scientist comes out and says, "I quit because I think there's about a 10% chance of a mass extinction event." And then the scariest part was when the CEO came out a few days later and go, "He may have a point."

Speaker 36:26 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 36:27 And then what is our... The whole idea of a government is you're supposed to defend our borders and prevent a tragedy of the commons. And what does our president do? He says, "Shut the fuck up. Keep shipping your AI. I need those stocks higher." And supposedly, I think this is the scandal. I think a dude in a midlife crisis believing, mistaking... Men will always mistake kindness for sexual interest. Women will always mistake sexual interest for kindness. Call me a sexist. It's true.

Kara Swisher 36:53 I think you're right. I don't-

Scott Galloway 36:54 A guy... We are going to see hundreds more of powerful men in powerful positions do really stupid shit around this. The, the real issue here is the following: You have to have a government that if you are in the iron- if you are enriching uranium, you have to make sure there are certain standards and certain protocols across all senior executives. This wouldn't happen at the CIA. When you train a field agent, they say to you, "If a woman with a Russian accent is making contact, eye contact with you at the bar, just be wary. Just be wary." [audience cheering]

Kara Swisher 37:28 All right.

Scott Galloway 37:29 "Maybe you're not that fucking charming or handsome."

Kara Swisher 37:31 [laughs] All right, moving on to someone else who's, might be facing congressional probe.

Scott Galloway 37:37 I need another beer.

Kara Swisher 37:38 Okay [laughs] . Elon Musk-

Scott Galloway 37:40 Daddy needs another beer.

Kara Swisher 37:41 Yes, bring him another beer. Bring him my beer. [audience cheering] Bring him my beer, guys. Okay, Elon Musk is facing congressional probe over Ukraine. Last month, SpaceX restricted its military satellite service there, and Ukraine's drone defenses took a hit. Uh, Senator Richard Blumenthal, who

Kara Swisher 37:57 wants to know who made that call, and he's pushing for the public interest controls on Starlink. If Washington can seize control of Musk's satellites over Ukraine, what, what does stop a future president from doing the same to any tech company they don't like? Now, SpaceX went public this summer at a valuation of one point seven seven trillion. Could the government even afford to nationalize Starlink? And what, what would happen here? I, I think you've called for it or sort... I don't believe in nationalization of something like this. At the same time, there are zero guardrails, and the fact of the matter, it looks like a single person who has not been elected made this decision on Ukraine because they're all sort of passing the hot potato back. "It wasn't me." "No, it was Trump." "No, Trump, it wasn't me. It was Hegseth." [audience cheering] Here's your beer.

Scott Galloway 38:41 That wasn't for us. That was for the beer.

Kara Swisher 38:43 [laughs] So what do you, what do you think's gonna happen here? Obviously, just like with Jensen Huang, there should be an investigation to find out what happened.

Scott Galloway 38:52 Look, I, I think the, the biggest story that has not gotten enough media attention, eighty percent of Americans support our war, uh, support Ukrainians, and they don't realize we've abandoned Ukraine. And not only have we abandoned Ukraine, but if according to The Wall Street Journal, if their reports are correct, a private citizen decided to throttle back Starlink such that Ukrainian civilians incurred a level of death and destruction that they didn't know was coming, and Putin has a greater likelihood of a successful invasion of Europe. I think this is the biggest story. I think this... No amount of attention. Someone has some 'splaining to do, and everyone's pointing at each other, right? That Trump is saying it was Musk. Musk was saying it was Trump. I think, I think Mr. Musk should have the opportunity to come in front of a congressional panel and under oath clarify what happened-

Kara Swisher 39:40 Yep [audience cheering]

Scott Galloway 39:40 ... or didn't happen. Because... And I would also offer that any of these new blue candidates, I think they need to talk more about economic growth. All of these people who swung towards them, young men swung thirty-eight points red to blue, but we're renting them. They're dating us. They are not marrying us. This is a lease, not a mortgage. If we don't figure out economic growth, and also I think the really powerful statement from Democrats need to be right now, and I think there should be a bill proposed, even if it doesn't pass. We are going-- We are the biggest economy in the world. We make the best weapons in the world. We have saved Europe twice from fascism. We're gonna go for number three regardless of how much money it costs, and we have more money, and we have more resolve than you have young Russians to kill. I think that is immediately what the Democrats should be outlining.

Kara Swisher 40:27 Yeah. I agree. [audience applauding]

Scott Galloway 40:28 But Starlink shutting off? Imagine the CEO of Northrop Grumman decides, "I don't like what's going on in the South China Sea, so I'm gonna c- I'm gonna shut off the guidance systems for Ohio-class submarines."

Kara Swisher 40:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 40:41 Would we put up with that shit?

Kara Swisher 40:43 No. No. No, there should... These investigations are gonna go on and on because these are very s- the Ukraine issue, what happened with Jensen here, is really important, and these are the important investigations the Democrats should do, um, a-a-along with Republicans. By the way, there's a lot of Republicans who agree with this, just so y- they're suddenly gonna get brave, um, but there are. They happen to be there. Um, another thing, interestingly, RFK Jr. is celebrating Stephen Miller's promotion. [audience groaning] I know. [sighs] Oh, man. Ugh.

Kara Swisher 41:17 God, thinking of the two of them, I'm so glad I'm a lesbian. Anyway, um [audience laughing] [audience applauding] vowing to unleash the Kraken. [laughs] What is wrong with him? Which is probably a new version of measles. Meanwhile, uh, America's scientists are leaving. The New York Times just profiled a top astrophysicist who quit Vanderbilt for the Netherlands after Trump's cuts gutted her research. Europe, Canada, and Asia are all spending hundreds of millions to poach scientists like her. This is the top, our top astrophysicist. Um, has, has, um, some of them are even going to China, speaking of that. They're going all over the place, to Canada, to France, all over the place. Has America already... And, and I profiled a bunch of mRNA, uh, researchers who are going elsewhere, uh, because of these cuts. Has America already lost a generation of research to Europe, China, everywhere?

Scott Galloway 42:08 Look, I, I, I, I actually don't think so. My, my sense is, first off, it, what we're doing makes absolutely no sense. If the Denver Broncos had the numbers one through ten top draft choices every year, they'd be the best team in the world, and that's what America is. The best and brightest around the world all want to come here. That, that's a dream come true. I work with, at NYU, I work with just such extr- The MBAs are typically, are typically the elite and the aimless. They're like smart, nice kids, but they don't know what they want to do, so they go back to business school. The PhD students And I was one of them. And the PhD students are literally the best and brightest from around the world. These are kids who f- found a way to get out of Albania, and they understand liquid dynamic flow, and they all have one thing in common. They're extraordinary human capital, and they think, "I'd love to go hang out in Pittsburgh at Carnegie Mellon and get my PhD." And then they like the freedoms, they like the Soho House, and they like skiing in Aspen, and they think, "You know what? I think I'm gonna ride this America thing out." And Matt, we get the top draft choices in the world academic. We get the best and brightest, and we've decided as the Denver Broncos, "Nah, let's treat them like shit and demonize them." I mean, it makes no sense. Having said that, what I have seen on the ground at the University of California and NYU is the defection so far, and it might be different in the sciences, and I'm not in the sciences, that I think people see an end light and they see hope, and I haven't seen that many defections so far. They're like, "I'm picking up my lab, and I'm moving to INSEAD or, uh, you know, Instituto Impresa or the Bocconi or whatever." So I think it's a threat, and it makes no sense. What I'm worried about is that young men and women who are the best and brightest in the world, there's something about the young brain, this is true of art and science, that is so crazy and so, it has no guardrails. It's not thi- it, it takes such risk that occasionally it goes, "Well, what if we use cheese to try and cure infection?" So that crazy genius of young people, that is the ultimate resource, and you wanna go everywhere in the world to try and find it and bring it here. My fear is that an 18-year-old who used to watch Baywatch and MTV and think, "Obama, what a neat guy. I'm super smart. I dream of going to UC Boulder. I dream of going to SMU," that not as many of them are gonna dream about coming here.

Kara Swisher 44:37 Yeah, that's absolutely true. Yeah, I think-

Scott Galloway 44:38 So I think it's a supply problem. I think the people here are still pretty wed to, you know-

Kara Swisher 44:43 See, I, I think in the sciences it's not. The, these cuts have been devastating. In the sciences, it's quite significant. Um, but we really have to turn that around. Another opportunity for the Democrats if they do it, and good Republicans, the same thing, like ones who are gonna stand up.

Scott Galloway 44:57 The greatest return, just talking about venture capital, you know, someone did an analysis of every hedge fund, every VC, every investment every ma- ever made, and they looked at all s- different sorts of investments. The greatest return on investment capital since 1945 has been funding our great research universities.

Kara Swisher 45:12 Yep.

Scott Galloway 45:13 And most of that return-

Kara Swisher 45:14 Yep. [audience applauding]

Scott Galloway 45:15 Whether it's diabetes medication, chemotherapy, nuclear weapons, it tends to start in a university.

Kara Swisher 45:22 Yep.

Scott Galloway 45:22 And for every dollar we've invested in universities, we've gotten a greater return than any asset class-

Kara Swisher 45:28 Yep

Scott Galloway 45:28 ... or any hedge fund.

Kara Swisher 45:28 Yep. H- I mean, you know, how's the fucking internet working out for you, Silicon Valley? Fuck you. It was a government thing.

Scott Galloway 45:34 GPS.

Kara Swisher 45:35 GPS, everything. Okay, we need to take another quick break, and we come back, Todd Blanche, how petty is he? Support for this show comes from Beehiiv. Whether it's writing, podcasting, or starting a business, sometimes the best way to learn how to do something is to just start doing it. Beehiiv is a publishing platform that helps you find your audience and your voice. It also helps you manage your website, track subscriber growth, dig down into your analytics, and build a community. And when you're ready to get revenue flowing, Beehiiv lets you offer paid subscriptions, connect with advertisers through the ad network, manage direct sponsorships, or sell digital products. You don't need a huge audience or a fully formed media company to begin. Start with your expertise, curiosity, or a subject you think deserves better coverage. Beehiiv gives you both a place to publish and tools to find your next readers. All you need to bring is your unique perspective. I'm excited 'cause I am about to start a Pivot post Beehiiv newsletter with Scott Galloway for Pivot. I really like the platform for a lot of reasons, especially 'cause it focuses in on the creator more than anything else, and I really appreciate that about them. I'm very excited to start up Pivot post on Beehiiv, and it's the only place I would do it. Visit beehiiv.com/pivot, that's B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com/pivot, and start building your newsletter today.

Speaker 46:55 Support for the show comes from Indeed. When everything at work is on fire, deadlines are slipping, and your team is smaller than ever, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. If you need a hiring hero, an Indeed Sponsored Job will match you with quality candidates. Phew. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been speaking to you, companies like ours made 27 hires on Indeed according to Indeed data worldwide. With Indeed, you can spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 Sponsored Job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support this show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need the right hire fast? Then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

Kara Swisher 47:51 Support for this show comes from Quince. There's nothing like having pieces in your closet you know you can count on for any occasion, except maybe giving someone else that same feeling. This holiday season, Quince is where you can find those pieces. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim. And when it comes to gifting, Quince has a lot more than clothing. They have leather bags, hotel quality bedding, chef grade cookware, and five-star luggage. You can find something special for everyone on your list. I really love Quince. [laughs] I actually use it a lot. I love their bedding. I just gave that to my son, uh, for his, uh, new home. Um, and I gave him some cookware also. I have a piece of their luggage I use a lot, and I have this blue cashmere sweater that I have worn far too many times. It's incredibly comfortable. It feels rich. It was not expensive. Uh, I would give that to, mostly just to Scott Galloway, 'cause he needs to be softer. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince ask where you heard about them, let them know it was Pivot. It's the best way to support the show. Scott, we're back. Uh-

Speaker 49:06 [cheering] [clapping]

Kara Swisher 49:08 Uh, from Denver. Denver, Colorado.

Speaker 49:11 [cheering] [clapping]

Kara Swisher 49:18 [laughs] Democrats haven't even taken over Congress yet, and already AG Todd Blanche, AKA Trump's lawyer, is threatening to prosecute them. On CNN Sunday, he said Democrats' threats of investigations,

Kara Swisher 49:29 which is their job, could be a crime, and said that he'd be very worried if he were on the House Oversight Committee. That came after incoming Oversight Chair Robert Garcia told Trump officials to lawyer up. Uh, it's not just Congress. Prosecutors told a judge they considered naming The New York Times as a co-conspirator in their leak case against James Comey. I mean, Todd Blanche aside, he's just such a, like, an egor. Um, but, but is he baiting Democrats into becoming the party of subpoenas? Should-- Some people think that, that Trump is trying to do all this stuff, and by the way, Trump said he was kidding about, uh, Dana, uh, whatever his name is.

Scott Galloway 50:07 Dan White?

Kara Swisher 50:07 Dana White, that he was kidding about. I mean-

Scott Galloway 50:09 He would've been the smartest guy in The White House, though.

Kara Swisher 50:10 I know. Honestly, I was like, "Not a bad idea."

Scott Galloway 50:12 Smart guy, CEO.

Kara Swisher 50:13 I think he was thinking about the other lady who was also named Dana.

Scott Galloway 50:15 Deals with men who've been hit in the head too much.

Kara Swisher 50:17 Yeah. So, um, i-i-is it a bait to do that? They want-- This is something that I think Gavin Newsom said to us. They want us to, to prosecute Trump. They want us to g-get into that, into that game. But this, it was kind of appalling that this guy said this without any proof whatsoever. He's not acting like the, the, the person who should be looking into these things, uh, any of the corruption, and he, he also said that he didn't feel like the Trump family was corrupt in any way, which was...

Speaker 50:48 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 50:49 You know Hunter Biden's like, "I really should've been more ambitious." But-

Speaker 50:52 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 50:53 Um, but talk about that. Talk about what, what, what's happening here, 'cause he, he's trying to sort of kneecap them. He's not gonna work 'cause he's such a wimp, but what, what do you think about that?

Scott Galloway 51:03 Yeah, like I, I think on a, on, on a broader level, I think if the way that Boebert's district goes back red right away is if we decide to go, if Democrats decide to go on an impeachment his- nostalgia tour. I just think that's a mistake. I-

Kara Swisher 51:20 Well, Pete Hegseth's gonna get impeached next week, supposedly.

Scott Galloway 51:23 That's not what I said.

Speaker 51:24 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 51:24 Yeah, okay. You mean Trump.

Scott Galloway 51:26 I'm sorry. Uh, I think Hegseth is gonna be impeached, and the nation is gonna be safer when he's out of office.

Kara Swisher 51:32 Hmm.

Speaker 51:32 [clapping]

Scott Galloway 51:33 The... But as, as it relates to the President, and this has been unpopular, people say no one's above the law. Unfortunately, I think the President is, and my attitude as an eighty-two-year-old obese man with no one in his life who loves him, let's let biology take care of him.

Speaker 51:49 [laughing] [clapping]

Scott Galloway 51:51 And, but with respect to Blanche, Attorney General Blanche, I p- I can't figure out, and I'm curious to get your view, if he's just trying to create distraction or if he's serious because I, we got basically twenty-three and a half months, and if they go after The New York Times, or if they go after anyone, they can delay and obfuscate long enough until there's someone rational in the White House. So I think you're about to see, all of a sudden, a lot of backbones stiffen, and you're about to see a lot-

Kara Swisher 52:22 Yeah

Scott Galloway 52:22 ... of Democrats and Republicans just reach down and feel these giant spherical objects and just say-

Speaker 52:29 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 52:29 ... "No, I'm not intimidated at all by this."

Kara Swisher 52:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:33 I, I don't see it as a serious threat.

Kara Swisher 52:34 Well, it'll be interesting because, um, uh, because in spite of their defeat last week, this is their, this is their answer essentially. This, this-- it's an astonishing answer. It's like, do you know you lost, or is this, are you just pretending?

Scott Galloway 52:47 This, this is what is so amazing. They take every point of light. They get in a room. The top strategists, they have to have access to really smart people, and they say, "Okay, based on all of the results, what do we do?" And the singula- the singular answer they came back with was more Steven Miller.

Speaker 53:05 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 53:07 Yeah. So maybe there aren't smart people in the room anymore.

Speaker 53:11 Exactly.

Kara Swisher 53:12 Maybe that's the case. Maybe it's Natalie and Steven, and that's this whole situation.

Speaker 53:15 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 53:16 Which should scare the fucking shit out of you, and honestly, if I had to choose, I'd still choose Natalie.

Speaker 53:21 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 53:21 Um, and I wouldn't choose Natalie. Um, but, you know, um, y- look, all these people, Vance is trying to separate from them. They had a resounding defeat. We still have two more years of Donald Trump, and, uh, Vance is trying to move back. Hegseth will probably

Kara Swisher 53:36 be out 'cause they're publicly split.

Scott Galloway 53:38 I think Secretary Rubio's, I think, uh, Secretary Rubio's gonna resign.

Kara Swisher 53:41 Well, that's-- He said he wasn't, but I don't believe him.

Scott Galloway 53:43 I think he's gonna resign.

Kara Swisher 53:43 Um, Speaker Johnson, the other one, is heading for the exit. Th- uh, good riddance. Um-

Speaker 53:47 [cheering]

Kara Swisher 53:48 ... 'cause he abrogated Co-Congress' very important responsibility. CEOs, law firms, and universities that bent the knee to Trump with ballroom donations and lawsuit settlements now have a new problem, of course. Democrats-

Scott Galloway 53:58 Just to be clear, the University of California has not bent the knee to Trump.

Kara Swisher 54:00 What?

Scott Galloway 54:01 The University of California did not.

Speaker 54:02 [laughing]

Kara Swisher 54:02 Yeah. Well, um, Dem-

Scott Galloway 54:04 They said, "We'll see you in court."

Kara Swisher 54:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:05 He asked UCLA to give him a billion dollars, and he said, then the University of California, within twenty-four hours, said, "We'll see you in court."

Kara Swisher 54:11 Many of them didn't. Let's just say, especially law firms and companies, these Democrats are showing up with golden statues, Tim Cook, or ballroom donations, or showing up at lunch-

Scott Galloway 54:21 Yep

Kara Swisher 54:21 ... or showing up at the inauguration.

Scott Galloway 54:23 Yep.

Kara Swisher 54:23 But now, um, who flips first? The CE- which of CEOs who wrote the checks for the ballroom suddenly discovered they were never that close to Trump?

Scott Galloway 54:30 You had the best line on this. You said, "I'm waiting for Zuckerberg to show up with a nose ring and a feathered earring and decide he's incredibly-"

Speaker 54:37 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 54:38 "... incredibly, like, you know, start-"

Kara Swisher 54:40 In fact, I'm gonna require it.

Scott Galloway 54:41 "... start teaching gender studies at UC Boulder."

Kara Swisher 54:43 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 54:44 [laughing]

Scott Galloway 54:45 All these, I'm telling you, all these guys woke up at nine AM on, on Wednesday and decided they were Democrats.

Kara Swisher 54:51 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:52 They, the idol-- They're-

Kara Swisher 54:54 Yeah, they will.

Scott Galloway 54:55 I mean, they made a big mistake, and I think, generally speaking, it's a mistake for companies to be political. I think tech CEOs personally-

Kara Swisher 55:02 They've done too much. They've done too much.

Scott Galloway 55:04 Well, it went the other way too. They were exceptionally woke, thinking that would impress their younger workers. The best compliment I think you can get as a CEO of a private company is I don't know your politics. Well, that's the whole fucking point. Y- y- a, a company is a place to develop economic security for you and your family, and then if you wanna go to a MAGA march or a, a no kings rally on the weekends, that, that's your business. And we have become so focused on genderizing or politicizing every organization. Companies are here to provide economic value, have guardrails to ensure that there's not great externalities. But all of a sudden, one of the things I liked about e-commerce or when I was starting internet companies in the Bay Area, is we were a little woke, a little bit progressive, 'cause it was San Francisco, but we weren't very political. And I think that-

Kara Swisher 55:51 They, they weren't either

Scott Galloway 55:52 ... the politicization of everything is so... It's not only damaging economically, but one of the biggest problems we have is, we've been talking about declining birth rates, and I was on a panel talking about fertility, and people say, "Well, as the mayor said, young people can't afford to have kids." And that's a problem, but what's a bigger problem is people just aren't pairing. And y- we yet, young people have yet another reason not to fall in love, and that is they, they are too concerned with each other's politics. Let me ask you this, for anyone my age in here, do you remember the politics of anyone you were having sex with in your 20s?

Speaker 56:26 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 56:28 We didn't ask.

Kara Swisher 56:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 56:30 We're like, "You're hot."

Kara Swisher 56:31 Now, wait a minute. You didn't. I did, but that's okay.

Speaker 56:33 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 56:36 I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think immediately-

Kara Swisher 56:39 I, I am not dating Laura Loomer. It didn't happen.

Speaker 56:41 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 56:43 I don't think limiting your-

Kara Swisher 56:45 That would make me straight

Scott Galloway 56:45 ... pool of mates, friends, and mentors by 50%-

Kara Swisher 56:49 Yes, I agree

Scott Galloway 56:49 ... because of politics is a good idea.

Kara Swisher 56:51 I agree. So speaking of people who are shape-shifters, this is our last thing, and then we'll get to audience questions. Let's keep this a short one. Before the midterms, JD Vance was leading early polls for GOP nomination. After

Kara Swisher 57:02 last week's blue wave, though, some allies are telling him to sit 2028 out. Uh, Vance, who I call the Cybertruck of politicians-

Speaker 57:09 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 57:09 ... is blaming the Iran war and quietly distancing himself from Trump. Meanwhile, some big donors are having doubts, and DeSantis, Kemp, uh, who I think is the most interesting of these people, and, uh, and Ted Cruz, ugh, are eyeing runs. [laughs] Oh, my God, more Ted Cruz, less cowbell there. Um-

Speaker 57:28 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 57:29 Brian Kemp is an interesting character. He actually did something which deserves kudos, as they g- they wanted him to bring in the legislature to take powers away from Keisha Lance Bottoms, and he declined. He also was very important to the last election, not letting Trump push, uh, he or, or, um, Brad Raffensperger around to try to find the votes. Um, so is Vance finished before he even starts? Can we hope?

Scott Galloway 57:51 The, the m- the most obvious... So first off, Trump is political Chernobyl. Can you think of anyone from his first administration that's gone on to do great things? How did things work out for Pence? I mean, literally, they, he sent people with an... He sent the Duck Dynasty after him with a noose.

Speaker 58:10 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 58:11 Anyone heard from Admiral Kelly? Remember Rex Tillerson, Secretary of State? He's political Chernobyl. You get political leukemia, and you die. But the seduction of power is so great that everyone thinks they're gonna figure it out, and that's why I think Rubio's gonna leave. I don't think Vance has any shot. But what's so unique and sort of fun about the political process and the campaign, first off, when you let it run, and you let them cook... Someone asked me, "Should Kamala Harris or Vice President Harris, um, run again?" And I said, "I personally don't think she'd do very well, but let her cook." Because the great thing about the political process is whoever can show up and pretend to like fried Snickers at an Iowa fair or put up with Fox News hosts or be talented, it's like Navy SEALs training. We produce warriors if we let the process run. But what's interesting about the Republican side is that it's not even e- 18 months out, here are some of the number one polling Republican candidates, the people who are polling number one at this point plus six months to be the nominee, the GOP nominee for president. Rudy Giuliani was number one.

Speaker 59:18 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 59:19 Remember him? Herman Cain.

Speaker 59:22 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 59:24 And this is my favorite. Fred Thompson from Law & Order was polling number one.

Speaker 59:29 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 59:30 He could win.

Scott Galloway 59:31 So the reality is, who has the greatest likelihood? If I had to pick somebody, I would pick Ron DeSantis, because you may not like his politics. I don't. He, Florida's done really well under his leadership. You may not like his politics. He's, he's been a g- in my opinion, he's been a responsible, good executive and steward.

Kara Swisher 59:48 Oh, Alligator Alley is gonna come and, like, come on.

Scott Galloway 59:50 I, I don't... Uh, look, Florida-

Kara Swisher 59:52 Oh, just out of concentration camp

Scott Galloway 59:53 ... Florida's booming.

Kara Swisher 59:54 Um-

Scott Galloway 59:54 He held every red s- he held the red seats. You may not like him, but just being-

Kara Swisher 59:59 I think it's Brian Kemp

Scott Galloway 1:00:00 ... Kemp or Youngkin, but most likely-

Kara Swisher 1:00:03 Youngkin. Oh, my God, Youngkin makes me sleep.

Speaker 1:00:04 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 1:00:04 But, but most likely-

Kara Swisher 1:00:06 Kemp is a really interesting prospect

Scott Galloway 1:00:07 ... hands down, the number one candidate polling for the GOP right now is TBD. It's someone we don't know.

Kara Swisher 1:00:13 And if-

Scott Galloway 1:00:13 It's someone who will emerge

Kara Swisher 1:00:14 ... and if Trump has his way, he'll try to control the whole process through money and everything. Anyway, we'll see what happens to poor JD Vance on his journey.

Speaker 1:00:21 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:00:22 But his next book is gonna be called Hillbilly Eulogy.

Speaker 1:00:24 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:00:25 Anyway.

Scott Galloway 1:00:25 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:00:27 [laughs] I saved that one. [cheers] Oh, Meemaw. Oh, poor Meemaw.

Speaker 1:00:37 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:00:38 Rest in peace, Meemaw. Um, anyway, we'll take one more quick break, and we'll be back with audience questions. [cheers] Support for this show comes from beehiiv. If you ever thought about putting your work out into the world but weren't sure where to begin, beehiiv can help. beehiiv helps you build your audience and your business while giving you more time to actually create your content. Their recommendation network helps new people discover you, while monetization tools like paid subscriptions, digital products, and a built-in ad network let you experiment with different business models and find what works best for you and your audience. Because creating your content is hard enough- Let Beehiiv help you with everything else. Visit beehiiv.com/pivot, that's B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com/pivot, and start building your newsletter today.

Speaker 1:01:25 Support for the show comes from Vanta. As AI adoption grows, so do your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits, and vendors keep piling on, but your team isn't getting any bigger. Most compliance tools promise automation, but you're really stuck doing all the work by hand, chasing screenshots, validating controls, and playing catch-up when audit season comes around again. Vanta works differently. Their agentic trust platform is built to scale with you, not slow you down. With over 1,400 automated tests across more than 400 integrations, Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year-round. You can cut your audit prep by 82%. Plus, you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools like Claude or Cursor. They work around the clock from full program context, so nothing slips through the cracks. The numbers back it up. Vanta delivers a 526% ROI over three years and pays for itself in three months. Over 16,000 fast-growing companies, including Ramp, Rider, and Harvey, save time and resources while scaling fast with Vanta. Learn more at vanta.com/pivot, spelled V-A-M-T-A.com/pivot.

Kara Swisher 1:02:32 Scott, we're back recording live from Denver. [audience cheering]

Kara Swisher 1:02:42 And we're ready to take some questions from the audience, and we love hearing from you, but we're gonna have to be a bit tight. I have a flight to catch to see my kids. All right, let's bring up the lights. We have one person to start with. Where is he? Oh, Kyle Clark. [audience cheering] Get the light on him.

Speaker 1:03:01 Hey, Kara and Scott. How are you? [audience cheering]

Kara Swisher 1:03:06 Whoo. Stand up for Kyle. Whoo.

Speaker 1:03:11 Thank you for coming to Denver.

Kara Swisher 1:03:13 I-- Can I just say, I have been a massive... Kyle Clark, I am a pretty fucking good interviewer, but... [audience cheering] Quiet, quiet, quiet, so I can compliment him. I am a really good interviewer. I'm known for that. You surpass me. I think you're astonishing, I have to say. [audience cheering] You are amazing. And I keep telling him, I, we need to bring him up to the bigs, but he wants to stay here, Denver, so... [audience cheering] Anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 1:03:45 Thank you for coming to Denver. Welcome to the theater where Lauren Boebert saw the first half of Beetlejuice.

Kara Swisher 1:03:50 [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:54 But I have a serious thing that I'd like you to consider.

Kara Swisher 1:03:56 Okay.

Speaker 1:03:56 The only reason that anybody knows about that story, or countless other far more important stories, is because of local journalism.

Kara Swisher 1:04:05 Yes. [audience cheering] Yes, sirree.

Speaker 1:04:09 And the future for local journalism looks really bleak right now.

Kara Swisher 1:04:13 Correct.

Speaker 1:04:14 What do the two of you foresee for the future of local journalism in America?

Kara Swisher 1:04:18 I have been thinking about local journalism for a long time. One of the reasons I wanted to buy The Washington Post from Jeff Bezos was to create a network of local journalism, use The Washington Post as the vehicle for local, helping local journalism. I was gonna create a libel and legal foundation that covered people like Mississippi Today. Lots of... There's all these amazing things going on across the country, and it can't be at, it can't be at the behest of good billionaires, right? 'Cause a lot of times that's the case. You have a good billionaire, whether it's in Balti... It depends. There's a lot of, like, these local things happening everywhere, but it's not adequate. And so I've o- often tried to get the people I think are w- are good media owners, like Lorraine Powell Jobs, who owns The Atlantic and some other things, to start to support and invest in local journalism. But it's a very diffent- difficult economic prospect given the collapse of local businesses, the collapse of the advertising business. I wanted to create a nationwide advertising network that would work in, in a way. Um, sadly, Jeff wouldn't sell me The Post. Um, but, uh, but it's really a difficult problem because it's critical, and when you don't cover these state houses, when you don't cover city councils, when you don't cover... We know the problem, right? And we know the economic problem, and Google and Facebook have sucked all the oxygen out of the economy. Um, the only thing I can say is that it c- you don't want it to be a public service either, 'cause then you're captive of that. Um, and you don't really want it to be billionaires doing it, 'cause you never know what kind of billionaire you're gonna get. Like, and by the way, even the, even if it's the best of persons, it's not the greatest economic thing. And so I do, I, I am very heartened by a lot of stuff I see across the country, uh, with these smaller, whether it's Mississippi Today, The Baltimore Banner, there's one in Louisiana. They're, they're popping up everywhere. But they are still too small to, to really be able to sustain themselves economically. And for some reason, I think a network of them across the country, and not owned by Sinclair, these television stations-

Speaker 1:06:17 [audience cheering]

Kara Swisher 1:06:17 ... like, by a single, very conservative person who's just... Honestly, they're just putting out dreck, too. It's not even as conservative, although that's an issue. It's that it's just, they, they just do one story, and then it goes across the co- It's just so bad at what it does. It doesn't reflect the population. But I am heartened by a lot of these inexpensive tools that locals can use now that are much better to create things. But it's still gonna be a really tough business. So anyway, Kyle, we love you. We think you're amazing.

Speaker 1:06:44 Thank you, Kyle. [audience cheering]

Kara Swisher 1:06:45 Thank you. Thank you all. Okay, go ahead. You an- Oh, it's a young man.

Speaker 1:06:52 Hi, guys.

Kara Swisher 1:06:52 Hi.

Speaker 1:06:53 Um, so originally I was gonna ask... Oh, wow. [laughs] Uh, originally I was gonna ask for dating advice, but, uh-

Kara Swisher 1:07:03 Oh.

Speaker 1:07:03 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:07:04 That's for him. I-

Speaker 1:07:05 Well, my girlfriend broke up with me yesterday, so.

Kara Swisher 1:07:08 Oh my God. Oh, no.

Speaker 1:07:11 Yeah. Well, um, now my question is, does Does failure ever get easier?

Kara Swisher 1:07:19 Oh my God, you're killing me. Um [laughs]

Scott Galloway 1:07:21 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:07:22 My s-

Scott Galloway 1:07:23 How old are you, young man?

Speaker 1:07:24 Uh, I'm 16.

Kara Swisher 1:07:25 16. Oh.

Scott Galloway 1:07:26 Aw.

Kara Swisher 1:07:26 Yes. Yes. It does. We've all had heartbreak, and it doesn't feel great, and it will get better, and that's, that sounds stupid at this moment [laughs] in time for you, because you don't think it will, but it absolutely will. But here's what it is. You had a girlfriend, you made a risk, you took a risk, and you had your heart broken. That is a good thing. It's a real... It, even though it seems awful right now. [applause] It does.

Scott Galloway 1:07:51 So this-

Kara Swisher 1:07:55 You need to ask for money from him in a second, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:07:58 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:07:59 He's gonna give it to you.

Scott Galloway 1:08:00 As, as someone who lost their virginity at 19, I think I'm qualified to talk about this. [laughs] Um, first off, I mean, look at you, brother. You're a tall stalk of a, stack of handsome.

Kara Swisher 1:08:09 You're a handsome man, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:08:10 Two, the fact that you had, you were dating and you had, you, you approached someone, asked them out, established a relationship, had the EQ to maintain a relationship, unfortunately puts you in the top decile of young men right now.

Kara Swisher 1:08:24 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:08:24 So you are in the top 10%. [applause] Two, if you aspire, as I did when I was your age, to be rich and with someone much hotter than you, and I've accomplished both those things- [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:08:38 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 1:08:38 ... you need to get used to what you just went through, rejection. The key to every great yes is a series of nos. You took your shot, and you don't get strength through avoiding risk, which a lot of young men are doing by not approaching women. You get strength by enduring rejection. Every great yes- [applause] This is why I'm not, no one should be worried about you. At the end of your life, the only thing you are gonna regret is not that this woman broke up with you, but how upset you were about it, 'cause the fact you are taking those sorts of risk and can establish a relationship means you have a ton of women and dates, and you're gonna get your heart broken again, and you're gonna break hearts, and you're gonna end up with someone wonderful. You should feel great about yourself. Every great yes, professionally and personally, involves a shit ton of nos, and the fact that you are willing to endure nos means you're getting to a great yes.

Kara Swisher 1:09:28 Yes. Yes. [applause]

Speaker 1:09:30 Thank you, guys.

Kara Swisher 1:09:31 Now, wait a minute. Scott, give him-

Scott Galloway 1:09:32 Wait. Hold on

Kara Swisher 1:09:33 ... hold on, hold on, sir.

Scott Galloway 1:09:34 Hold on.

Kara Swisher 1:09:35 Young man, come here.

Scott Galloway 1:09:36 So, uh, w- w- when, when I was your age, like, it, I, I worked all these jobs, box boy, you know, I used to carry a woman downstairs, uh, a longer story. [laughs] An older... [laughs] Lillian Hellman, the great author, I used to go to her house and carry her down for dinner. Anyway, I know it sounds weird. I used to clean beer taps.

Kara Swisher 1:09:57 [laughs] Every time you say it, I'm like, "Please stop."

Scott Galloway 1:09:59 I was a pool, I was a pool boy at the Mondrian. I parked cars at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Anyways, occasionally someone very nice, uh, usually an older man, sometimes a woman, would give me a $20 tip, which back in my day was literally $3 million. [laughs] And it would make my day. I could go to a movie, I could go out for dinner, I could have a date. And typically, and this one guy who I always remember, this big obese guy with big gold chains, I'd take out his groceries to his powder blue Cadillac, and I'd put his groceries in the back, and he'd give me 20 bucks, and he'd always do the same thing. He'd look at me and catch my gaze, and he'd go, [clicks tongue] [laughs] Anyways, I'm about to give you a shit ton of money. I want you to take your, take your mom out to dinner. [laughs] [applause] [laughs]

Kara Swisher 1:10:56 That's all we've got time for today. Scott, thanks to our, uh, amazing teams, both on the road and back at the office, as well as all the people, the ama- we've had 10,000, 12,000 people who came, uh, came out as, to see us. It's really, it means so much to us. The in-person things are our favorite thing all year. We do like taping our shows, but this is gold to us. [applause] Uh, okay, one more quick thank you to our title sponsor, beehiiv. If you've got something to say, beehiiv gives you the tools to publish it, grow your audience, and get paid. Uh, Scott, thank you.

Scott Galloway 1:11:29 Thank you, Kara.

Kara Swisher 1:11:30 And thank you to Denver.

Scott Galloway 1:11:31 Thank you, Denver.

Kara Swisher 1:11:32 We really appreciate it.

Scott Galloway 1:11:33 Thank you. [applause] [upbeat music]