PivotWhy Kara Swisher Finds Pete Hegseth's Unhinged Speech So "Terrifying"
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
55 min read · 11,473 words- 0:00 – 2:10
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
This is just sort of frat rock on too much human growth hormone. [upbeat music]
- KSKara Swisher
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway. Kara-
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
... is on the Washingtonian's 300 Most Powerful Women in Washington list.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] What? I am? I didn't-
- SGScott Galloway
You didn't see that?
- KSKara Swisher
No. Are there 300 powerful women in Washington?
- SGScott Galloway
Except that's not the news.
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
It says, "Kara Swisher, co-host with Scott Galloway for the Pivot podcast." So I am now one of the most powerful women in Washington.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
And I knew this was coming because-
- KSKara Swisher
You are a lady
- SGScott Galloway
... I got comped a cheese plate at the Hay-Adams. Ask around, it's true.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
I knew it was coming. And I just wanna give advice to all young men about how to become the most powerful woman-
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh
- SGScott Galloway
... in Washington.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
One, first and foremost, just get proximity to a terrifying lesbian with sunglasses.
- KSKara Swisher
Excellent.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, that's-
- KSKara Swisher
Excellent. Good choice.
- SGScott Galloway
And also, it's just pretty obvious. I, I sat on my back at the, uh, Washington, the elevator at the Washington Park Hyatt. I took three Viagra, hit the elevator up-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
... and I broke the glass ceiling. Kara, I broke the glass ceiling. Also, I'd just like to say-
- KSKara Swisher
I love how you turn my victories into your own dick jokes
- SGScott Galloway
It's all about me.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- 2:10 – 8:36
Hegseth’s Vision for the Military
- KSKara Swisher
Secretary Pete Hegseth unveiled the new plans for the military in his State of the Force Address, including a reduced senior leadership, that's sus, sus, and an end to diversity programs. He also announced Elon Musk, Anduril founder Palmer Luckey, and Newt Gingrich will lead a new effort to study the future of warfare. Uh, none of whom I think has been in the Army or Navy or military, but okay. Hegseth also attacked the media over coverage of the Iran war, calling the reporters anti-American losers and saying the reporting amounted to treason. Um, one, uh, but Scott, I'd like to get your reaction to one particular part of his speech. Let's listen to this.
- SPSpeaker
But it's worth saying again, so that the fake news understands it. We are no longer the woke department or the weak department. Simple transat- translation of that, no fanny, no fatties, no trannies, no beardos, no weirdos, no wimps, no radicals. Just warriors. Just tough, ready, committed troops.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, man, he, there's something deeply wrong with him. Anyway, how do you reconcile putting Elon, [laughs] who has, you know, speaking of weirdos, Palmer Luckey, who is also a weirdo, and Newt Gingrich, who is probably a wimp. I don't think he's a tranny. He's a bit of a fatty. Like, anyway, um, let's speak of this, of what he's doing here, from a messaging point of view, Scott, first, and then obviously it's terrifying on many levels 'cause he's incompetent and is in power.
- SGScott Galloway
He wants a, kind of a John Wayne cinematic version of macho believing that keeps our nation state. You, you can take your roided up macho W, you know, WWE, you know, warrior-
- KSKara Swisher
UFC, yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... and give me a 90-pound man or woman in thick glasses with a drone and a Hellfire missile and a command module, and let's see who wins. Uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... we fight wars now, [sighs] not as much with brawn but with brains, and with people who have a certain level of discipline, a certain level of respect for each other. They acquit themselves professionally, you know, hold your head high, stick to your values. This is just sort of frat rock on, on, you know, too much human growth hormone. It, it's just-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... stupid. And I'll, the part that really bothered me, you know, no fatties alone, but no trannies? It's just, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Who uses that word anymore?
- SGScott Galloway
It's just-
- KSKara Swisher
Like it's from the '50s or something.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Beardos. You're a beardo apparently, just so you know. I think he just wanted it to rhyme with weirdos, I guess.
- SGScott Galloway
Beardos?
- KSKara Swisher
You're a beardo.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I, I just, um-
- KSKara Swisher
You have a beard, Scott
- SGScott Galloway
... I know ra-
- KSKara Swisher
You're a, let me see which ones of these are yours. You're not fat. You're not a tranny. You're-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm a wimp and I'm a ra- I'm a wimp, a radical, and a-
- KSKara Swisher
No, I don't think you're a radical
- SGScott Galloway
... and a weirdo and a beardos.
- KSKara Swisher
But you could, you're radical, a beardo-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm not a tranny or a fatty
- KSKara Swisher
No, you're-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm all of these things
- KSKara Swisher
... let me see. What am I here? I'm not really fat and I'm a tr- I don't have a beard. I, I don't think I'm that weird. Um, I'm not a wimp. I wouldn't say I'm radical. I could be in the Army. Anyway, [laughs] I just, the whole thing is just ridiculous. He's just trying to get rid of women in the military. He's trying to get rid of anyone who doesn't go along. And the, the issue he has is that he's in a position of power. I'm kind of perplexed since Republican senators are pushing back really hard on him, that, that Trump keeps him in place. I assume he's doing it so he can make some action at the election. That's the only reason, presumably. I, I'm not sure what to say.
- SGScott Galloway
Weight standards, grooming standards, and physical toughness map onto a fitness standard. A trannies is a slur targeting a group's identity, not their capability or appearance, essentially or appearance standard being enforced. Conflating it with fatties is laundering a slur, as is, as if it's just another performance metric.
- 8:36 – 20:16
Trump’s AI Safety Deal
- KSKara Swisher
from top AI companies have signed what President Trump called a morally binding, he knows all about morals, accord on safety. The agreement encourages companies to imp-- quote, "implement robust internal controls to monitor the capabilities of AI models." It's voluntary, at least for now. Uh, the document states over time it may, may make sense to codify these steps into laws or regulation. But not to worry, Trump said, quote, "There's going to be tremendous self-policing aspect." He went on later to say the word policing, self-policing over and over again. He also signed an executive order rebranding the artificial int- artificial intelligence as super intelligence. Fine. He's SI instead of AI, but we're not g-- We're gonna be using AI, I feel. He's directing federal agencies to use super intelligence, or SI, in government documents or communications. He unveiled an America.gov chatbot powered by Gemini and Grok that's being called a concierge to the federal government. I used it. It's relatively useless. Though at first, the bot correctly said Biden won in twenty twenty, there was no evidence of widespread fraud. Now it says it can't answer those questions. Uh, you know, again, it's a propaganda thing. Um, you know, this agreement was all these CEOs wandering around The White House. They never leave The White House. It's only tech CEOs get to be at The White House, apparently. You know, I'm, I'm dying for, like, a heavy manufacturer CEO to be there [chuckles] or someone else. But, um, Mark Zuckerberg reportedly was the driving force behind this sort of toothless agreement. Um, they all look, like, ridicul- The, the whole thing was r- it's ridiculous, nonsensical. It's a little bit of what I ha- you and I had been to when Biden did the same thing. It was just, it was just a statement of principles, essentially, and it wasn't that different from when you and I were at The White House, what Biden was saying. So I, I-- this is just such, like, theater. Both, both, both Hegseth and, uh, this is just sort of war and AI theater.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Is it AI that's the existential threat or the fact that we have a tr- any trillion-dollar industry growing the fa- this fast that's not regulated? We, we're in uncharted territories, and the notion that this is morally binding, they might as well say, they might as well have had all of them hold up three s- three fingers and, and, and give scouts honor. I mean, it's just so... Uh, the contradiction here is stifling. Anthropic's own securities filing says models can resist shutdown and manipulate information. OpenAI just shelved a model after, uh, internal tests found deception, evasion issues. Uh, so this is-- [sighs] It-- Where they go to is they say, "But," and this is the, kind of the, the message coming from the bo- broligarchs trying to stave off regulation, that they can get sued and that this is, in America, this is tremendous guardrails. But here's the problem. That's not, that's not enough.
- KSKara Swisher
That's after the fact.
- SGScott Galloway
That's right. That's after the kids-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... have already died. These companies don't police themselves, right? A- airlines, manufacturers, y- y- you know, restaurants themselves don't, you know, don't inspect themselves, right? They don't-
- KSKara Swisher
No
- SGScott Galloway
... they don't-- Restaurants don't inspect themselves.
- KSKara Swisher
Airlines don't inspect themselves. No, exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
Banks, banks don't set their own capital requirements.
- KSKara Swisher
Planes.
- SGScott Galloway
Boeing doesn't certify its own plane. We're, we're asking the guys building Jurassic Park to serve as the park rangers. We're asking the Tyrannosaurus res- rex to be the park ranger here.
- KSKara Swisher
So, you know, you use the expression all the time. We're using-- We're allowing the arsonist to tell us about fire safety, essentially. And one of the things that's really interesting here is how much I'm just riveted. Like, when it came out, I, I think I-- I'm sure you went on too. I, I was like, "This is just Ridiculous. This is just... And of course, they spell the United States wrong, which is just like, who in the world is over there that can just, like, actually copyedit? But this Hegseth thing, this thing with the president at, at the White House, it's all such theater. It's just ridiculous theater without a- anything. Meanwhile, these guys get to do whatever they want and, and sort of pretend that they're getting along. This is s- this is a Silicon Valley beef happening on, on the asphalt in front of the White House. That's all it is. It's like how they... And they had poor Dario there. He looked like a hostage. I don't know if you noticed.
- SGScott Galloway
[chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
They kept moving him around.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, and-
- SGScott Galloway
That was funny
- KSKara Swisher
... you know, he kept trying to run away. [chuckles] It was just, the whole-- I, I know he's trying now to cooperate 'cause he's going public, which we'll talk about in a little bit. Um, but I- I just... This is, like, so dangerous. It's-- Both things are so dangerous in terms of what's happening, and leaves us so vulnerable in so many ways. Um, and especially the, the fact that he's doubling down, Scott, when every single poll says differently. I, I-- What do you imagine is going on there? He just doesn't care, or he's getting money, or what, what is your explanation, w- uh, from a marketing point of view even, of pushing this stuff when everybody is against it?
- SGScott Galloway
I, I think it goes to a broader point, and that is the incentives here overwhelm morality, a- and the problem isn't that these people are evil.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm. Exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
The pro- the problem is that they're capitalists and, and we shouldn't build a regulatory architecture that requires CEOs to choose humanity over market share every Tuesday morning. This isn't their job. Their job is to be rapacious capitalists, and the government's job is to ensure, uh, prevent a tragedy of the commons and then tax them such that we can reinvest in the middle class to actually buy their products and have a navy and food stamps, and we're not doing either. So this is, uh, this is just really, in my opinion, really poor governance, and I think these guys... I can't imagine all of these guys aren't on Lexapro and Xanax to get to sleep at night.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
You know? Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree.
- SGScott Galloway
We don't know what's gonna happen when the next administration comes in and says, "Oh, we've decided you're liable for everything, the bad thing that happened here," and there's a populist uprising against these guys. You could definitely see one or more of these guys on trial-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... if something bad happens.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
So, and Bill Gates gave, I thought, an excellent interview in The New York Times, and it has me rethinking everything. I have always said, you know, there's always a wizard behind the curtain, and that there's gonna be more jobs created than destroyed. And he believes that once these, you know, in all of these professions, once they get to a, a quote-unquote, acceptable level, you're just gonna see entire industries, uh, uh, employment goes away. And he-- And to, to be fair, Bill's been wrong before, but he's mostly right about technology. I, I found it very, I found it very scary.
- 20:16 – 27:32
Anthropic’s IPO Filing
- KSKara Swisher
with more news as Anthropic gets ready for its IPO. Reuters got a hold of its S one. Let's go through some of it. Anthropic is reportedly seeking a two trillion dollar valuation. The company reported a net loss of forty-two billion dollars in twenty twenty-five and plans to spend five hundred and eighteen billion on computing infrastructure and infrastructure in the coming years. Anthropic is also heavily reliant on a small group of companies. Forty-seven percent of its sales are routed through Amazon and Google. There's a lot of AI doom in this thing. Not surprising. More than one-third of filing, around eighty pages about risk. It has to be, including models resisting shutdown, manipulating information, and potentially posing an existential threat to humanity. Other than that, it's a delicious Twinkie. Uh, by comparison, forty-eight pages discuss the actual businesses. So Scott, take it away. Give us some, give us some wisdom here.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, so OpenAI wants another thirty billion at one point four trillion while delaying its IPO, and Altman has explicitly connected the delay to safety concerns.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's a bridge financing. That's what he's calling it in pushing back the plans.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. The, the private markets can now finance companies at a scale that lets them postpone the, the discipline of the public markets. Historically, if you needed billions of dollars, eventually you went public, and now sovereign wealth funds and mega funds and hyperscalers have weakened that constraint. So essentially what's dangerous here is OpenAI can get public company money without public company scrutiny. Look, the scary thing is about the numbers is, uh, something I wasn't expecting, and that's concentration. It looks like just a handful of companies-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's true
- SGScott Galloway
... are forty percent of the revenue, and those companies use it in a way. Facebook uses, Meta uses Anthropic in a way that v- likely very few companies will use it, and small companies typically suffer from concentration of a customer base, which you can understand. But a company trying, trying to obtain a two trillion dollar market capitalization with this level of concentration of client base was the thing that jumped out to me.
- KSKara Swisher
I, uh, as I said, forty-seven percent is through Amazon and Google, and then there is a Meta relationship, but the Amazon and Google is where much of it is.
- SGScott Galloway
You can understand Amazon, Goo-- how many Amazon and Googles are out there that need that level of complex, robust, uh, you know, AI. So it, it felt, it just felt, um... I don't know. I, I read it and thought, "This is, this is a huge, um, a huge red flag." So I don't, uh, you know, I don't... I, I found the whole thing, the, the growth is staggering, you know, I think it ten x-ed, but, uh, it was the concentration-
- KSKara Swisher
That got you.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, yeah, it's, it's-
- KSKara Swisher
So what is that, what do you say to investors, like wh- when you see that? What, how do you, how would you play this right now? Obviously, there's an upside thing that could happen just because the way the market is.
- SGScott Galloway
Let me just try and set the table. They generated about five billion in revenue of twenty-five, in twenty twenty-five. That's up twelve x, but they lost nearly eight billion. The headline forty-two billion loss is a bit of a, has a big asterisk 'cause thirty-four billion of it is accounting charges, so maybe that's not relevant. It wants a valuation north of two trillion or roughly four hundred and thirty-five times last year revenue. Uh, it's committed five hundred and eighteen billion in future compute infrastructure obligations. That's more than a hundred and ten years of its twenty twenty-five growth or revenue, excuse me. And then again, one quarter of revenue came from two customers, and forty-seven percent of sales, sales were routed through big tech partners that are simultaneously suppliers, investors, and potential competitors. As you noted, the prospectus devotes roughly eighty pages to risks and forty-eight pages to the business. That's remarkable. And the kicker here is that Anthropic says AI may cause catastrophic harm while arguing the solution is more powerful, uh, is a more powerful anthropic AI. And, uh, you know, Reuters identifies this exactly as this whole paradox of this whole movement right now.
- KSKara Swisher
We could kill you, but you need us to stop us from killing you.
- SGScott Galloway
But, but finance our IPO so we can stop s-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You know, I, I'm a murderer, but I need you to give me to save me from myself and you. This may be the first IPO where the risk factor is not our business might fail, but our business model might succeed beyond our ability to control it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I've never read that before.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It was sort of... Usually an S, an S one of this type of company says, "Here's how we make money. Here are the risks." That's typically what an S one is supposed to do. Anthropic's said, "Okay, we lose billions. We need half a trillion dollars of infrastructure, and our product might kill you. Anyway, two trillion, please." It's just Yeah, it, it, like you use the right term. It, th- this doesn't feel like an S one. It feels like a hostage note with a cap table. And again, it goes back to this weird license we give to innovators around, you know, self-regulation and scout's honor. If Meta built a nuclear power plant, we wouldn't leave a Post-it Note saying that w- a strongly worded Post-it Note on one of the, on one of the reactors.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. So what would you do? Is it... 'Cause it may go soaring upwards, right? Wall Street's on a tear, right? It... And, and the economy is, is relatively stable. The growth is relatively stable. So what do you, what do, would you do here?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, uh, if you're a shareholder, uh, you should be selling everything you can in the secondary markets. This, this market is... So first off, the IPO market is not strong. Uh, I made a prediction that Oura would be, have a successful IPO. I don't know if you saw, but Oura-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they pulled back
- SGScott Galloway
... actually pulled their IPO. So the IPO market, I wouldn't say it has a chill, but it's definitely not as frothy as they thought. This other piece of shit, SoftBank company, got pulled, but that was just ridiculous. That was like WeWork with a software, uh, or WeWork with a SoftBank logo on it. And so the, what I would be doing, if you're a shareholder, and you can get one point four trillion in the secondary market, oh my God, sell everything because the multiple on revenues here, the fragility, the concentration of a customer base, not only the existential threats to humanity from Anthropic, but the existential threats that the market and regulation and the public and the media re-represent Anthropic right now. If all of a sudden, I've said that, I used this example before. I'm at the corner of Wilshire and Santa Monica. If an AI bot that said, "Here's incentive," or, "Be creative," uh, to shut off the lights or the signals for five minutes at the crossroads or the intersection between Santa Monica and Wilshire, if it was successful in doing that, and eight, and eight cars crash, I think Congress might get whipped up into a frenzy and say, "You guys need to shut all of this down for 14 days."
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, yeah, e-especially if the Democrats, it sees the Senate, like it'll be Elizabeth Warren all day long doing a proctology d- exam of them. It'd literally be Elizabeth Warren at her finest, right? [chuckles] Like with her-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, she would, oh my God. She'd-
- KSKara Swisher
... speculum. She will have a-
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, yeah. No, she'd be-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... she'd be up there with a plastic glove on one hand telling everyone-
- 27:32 – 37:27
OpenAI Delays Its IPO—and Launches Dots
- KSKara Swisher
You said they're raising at least thirty billion dollars in a new... And the money is coming, new funding at a valuation of one point four trillion. The round would serve as a bridge financing, as we noted, because they shelved their IPO plans, l-largely because they're worried about safety. I'm sure that's what it is. Um, he, he said it won't go public until he's, he's confident that safety claims about its AI, he's confident about that, extending the delay that already been pushed, uh, beyond this year. Um, it c- as you noted, canceled the release of its newest model because issues with alignment. Um, and then it also launched Dots, a new always-on assistant designed to compete directly with Meta's popular Muse agent. They probably put that on fast forward. Dots can work in the background, use a web browser, and connect more than four thousand apps while learning a user's preferences over time. Another company I'm not gonna give my personal information to. So now there's two of these, whatever they happen to be. Theirs is an adorable thing called Dots. Meta's is this, this other Muse thing that I can't wait till someone makes a horror movie out of these things, uh, you know, these adorable squishies. Um, uh, what are they... What's happening there? What's gonna happen there? I really don't know on, at this point.
- SGScott Galloway
When you say there, what do you mean?
- KSKara Swisher
At OpenAI. Like, they're, uh, delaying everything and, and, you know, they're getting a lot of pushback 'cause it, every five minutes, one of their, one of their, uh, systems has attacked Australia or, or, or our own government or companies. Um, same thing with Anthropic obviously, but OpenAI was the first.
- SGScott Galloway
It is insane that a company called Dots and Muse, that we're not even really able to explain yet, gets launched with absolutely no regulatory review. No one has said to this thing, "Ugh, we've looked at it and don't think it can make a bioweapon from kitchen supplies." No one has looked at it and said, "We think we can hack into, uh, an aircraft carrier and take advantage of young men who've been on deployment for two hundred and thirty days and start a parasocial relationship with a character and then convince them that I love them, and they should take down the drone defense system for the next five minutes when we perceive their irises indicating they are massively exhausted and vulnerable and going through a state of mean." I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I know
- SGScott Galloway
... no one-
- KSKara Swisher
This is like a movie
- SGScott Galloway
... both these guys should be able to say, and I think they would wanna say this, "Oh, and by the way, we have worked with the FTC, the c- the CDC, the SEC, and several, um, um, uh, world-class people from the social sciences department of Berkeley and technologists, and also our security apparatus, and we have spent the last hundred and twenty days testing this thing every which way but loose in independent tests, and we feel confident that this..." I mean, when they put out, when they put out Facebook, it was gonna connect the world, right? [chuckles] It was like, "We're gonna bring together the parents of kids of, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I remember
- SGScott Galloway
... you know, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... of, of, of rare diseases, right?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, and look what happened there. So, and now we're already seeing, seeing this crazy shit. I thought Jensen had a really interesting thought, and that is the fir- the place to start is these bots have no rights. They're not allowed to access the internet They're not out-- They're, they're not allowed to access, they're not allowed to talk to each other. They're not allowed to kill themselves to sacrifice for a mission. They're not allowed to coordinate. And then one by one, you can give them rights, but don't give them sentient objectives. Be creative, be persistent, and then you have to document why you have given each of them permissions.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, but it's-- that's kind of a creep, isn't it? I mean, eventually we'll rely on them. One of the things that's fascinating to me, you know, they have Dots, they-- the other one has Muse. They're all these adorable figures. Why aren't they adult figures? Why are they... To me, they're trying to capture younger people, obviously.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, see, I saw it as they're just trying to soften the-- They're trying to make your executioner cute.
- KSKara Swisher
Why would an adult wanna talk to a plushie? Like, I just don't get it. Like, I would feel more confident if it was like, you know, a really firm German lady, like, like, that talks to me when I have maps, right? Like, "This is the way you will go." Like-
- SGScott Galloway
Don't, don't make the lesbian joke.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Don't make the lesbian joke.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] I go for it. I, I, I mean-
- SGScott Galloway
I don't think that's where most people's head went with Vera.
- KSKara Swisher
No, but they don't want a Dot. They want like a, a... If you want-- If you get an assistant, you don't want a dizzy person. You want, like, a competent assistant if this is what it is. And I just... I'm not gonna, like... I was using Muse, but now I'm, like, annoyed by it. Like, but I didn't give it any good information, so it didn't really-- wasn't able to do anything but identify a rash I had. Like, you know, uh, I just don't-- I don't know why they're... I know they're trying to soften it, but I don't think that's appealing to adults, like, necessarily.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but they're trying to... They're like, uh, they're, they're not gonna make the thing look like Lucifer or Nosferatu. Uh, people are really scared of this technology.
- KSKara Swisher
There's a delta between Nosferatu and these things. Like, competent assistant.
- SGScott Galloway
They, they said, "Okay, what is the most non-threatening-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I guess
- SGScott Galloway
... fool them that this probably won't destroy humanity type of figure?" I, I can't stop watch... It ends up in periods of real stress. Cute films and romantic comedies do the best, and then in good times, everyone wants to hear Ingrid Bergman talk about killing herself.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I guess.
- SGScott Galloway
And so now all these... I, I am obsessed. I go online and I watch 10 times a day the previews for that movie with those little rabbits that love each other and just kiss each other all the time.
- 37:27 – 45:34
Mattel’s Ynon Kreiz Joins Ellison as Co-CEO
- KSKara Swisher
Ellison has picked Mattel CEO Ynon Kreiz to be his co-CEO of the combined Paramount/Warner Brothers Discovery. Kreiz will run day-to-day operations while Ellison will focus on strategy, movies, TV, and technology, all the fun parts. Kreiz says his time at Mattel prepared him to manage the combined company's huge collection of characters and stories. I spoke to him. I know, I think you do, too, in 2021. I met him when he did Maker's, when he, he managed to pull that con off on Disney buying it, um, and, and then when he was at Mattel. But when, when the Barbie movie was in the works, before it came out, before it was a big hit, let's listen to what he told me about his vision for the company's IP.
- SPSpeaker
To me, the opportunity was to, um, take a company that did not fully evolve into the new economy and think of ways to commercialize the core asset, its library, in ways that it has not done before.
- KSKara Swisher
So, what do you think of this pick? I, I happen to like him. I think he's really interesting. He's a, he's a very tall, handsome man. Obviously, you heard his accent, he's Israeli. Um, and, uh, he's interesting. The, the Mattel didn't, didn't... kind of went sideways a little bit under him, but it- he actually did some really interesting things. Um, he certainly, uh, looks like a CEO, and I, when, when the news first started to surface about him being a possible top executive, all I thought was, "There's no way this guy's gonna be president to CEO. He's gonna have the, he needs the bigger title," and he got the co-CEO title. I don't, uh, I- I'm not a, a corporate person, so I don't understand these, but I never thought he would take anything less than a CEO, uh, job. What do, what do you think of this? And you know him, I think. You do know him, right? Correct?
- SGScott Galloway
I've only seen him speak. I've met him. I wouldn't say I know him.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I would-
- KSKara Swisher
I kind of do. He sent me a box of Barbies once, which I'll never forgive him for.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm, I, I find that triggering.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
Would you sent a straight woman a box of Barbie? I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] It's a gay woman. No, it was for my daughter. Uh, it was very-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... I just mentioned my daughter likes Barbies, and there was a box.
- SGScott Galloway
And a tool belt and a Subaru and pictures of-
- KSKara Swisher
He should've sent that.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
He should've sent that.
- SGScott Galloway
He sent you a German shepherd puppy. Um, anyways.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I was not expecting this. I think it's actually a really deft pick.
- KSKara Swisher
I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
It's, it's the opposite of a Zazlov style hire, and, and I think that's the point.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, he isn't a media lifer, a defending turf. He's kind of a turnaround operator who-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he's good at cutting costs
- SGScott Galloway
... who's been... Yeah, and, uh, you can imagine they're g- they're gonna do that. He did that at Mattel. That's what Ellison needs, kind of a ruthless cost discipline. There's no way they can justify this valuation unless they-
- KSKara Swisher
No, they have to cut, cut six billion, supposedly, if not more, at this point.
- SGScott Galloway
That's right.
- KSKara Swisher
Right?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but he has, he has cost discipline. He has, uh, a reputation for figuring out brand licensing leverage at Mattel and proving a declining company can be, you know, re-platformed, if you will. Um, uh, Mattel's stock told you he, y- you know, told you who he is before this announcement did. It's done well.
- 45:34 – 51:51
Amy Klobuchar Corrects the Record
- KSKara Swisher
uh, before we go, speaking of someone I really like, let's check out a great moment from one of our faves, Senator Amy Klobuchar, after her now viral exchange with the Republican senator, Eric Schmitt.
- SPSpeaker
We have confirmed that, in fact, you are right, Mr. Smith. Iowa, the Iowa Hawkeyes, played Maryland on February 3rd, 2024. The final score was 93 to 85, Iowa one, and Caitlin Clark scored over, scored 30 points, so it must have been a pretty good game. The game was, in fact, in Maryland, Mr. Smith. And I would just say, for a US senator to have false information and imply, based on a confusion about the name of a team, which I knew, knowing my Midwestern sports, and imply that you were in another city, that you were somehow involved that day in what was happening in Georgia, and then call you a dirt bag, is something that deserves an apology. Thank you, Mr. Smith.
- KSKara Swisher
I love that. That was really good. Of course, Schmitt is just doubling down and saying, "Oh, I can't believe he likes women's basketball," and of course, in the, in the MAGA universe, he looks like he's taking a victory when essentially he and his team are incompetent, like completely incompetent. By the way, he's a possible vice presidential candidate for J.D. Vance. Um, he's very close to the J.D. Vance, but he seems like a moron. Your thoughts on this, besides Amy Klobuchar is a badass?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I respect the senator for taking a shot. He was just 750 miles off, you know, and I, I, I, I love this. Uh, all I have to say to the senator is, "Senator Schmitt, Hawk Tua." [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
And, and, and basically MAGA has so much performative bullshit masculinity, they've decided that their midterm strategy is to accuse a prosecutor of liking women's sports.
- KSKara Swisher
What-- They are so... Let me just tell you, I think they have very small penises. They have to if they talk so much of trashing men. They're probably some of the most powerful women in Washington, really, I think. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I don't know if you know that Amy and I, I give her advice as two of the most powerful women in Washington. She and I are very close.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Um. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Is she on the list? You know more about-
- SGScott Galloway
She's gotta be
- KSKara Swisher
... she's gotta be.
- SGScott Galloway
She's gotta be.
- KSKara Swisher
Gotta be.
- SGScott Galloway
Senator Klobuchar-
- KSKara Swisher
She's gonna be governor
- SGScott Galloway
... is a total gangster.
- KSKara Swisher
She's gonna be governor. We're gonna know another governor soon.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Actually, people always ask me who I would like to see as president. She's in the top two or three for me.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. She'd be good.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, by the way, you'll, you'll love this. I just, um, interviewed and spent a bunch of time walking and morochching and talking with Mayor Lurie yesterday-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, good
- SGScott Galloway
... or two days ago in San Francisco. And I-
- KSKara Swisher
I feel like I was part of bringing that together, but go on.
- SGScott Galloway
You did. You did.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You said, "Look, you need to stop ignoring the most powerful woman in Washington, Nicola Scott." [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
And I love that. I'm so going to that dinner.
- 51:51 – 57:41
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
prediction. Now, we have to mention, as you just did, the biometric ring maker Oura has postponed its IPO to uncertainty in the market. Um, and you did explain what happened there, I mean, what's happening with the market. But would you like to add to that prediction or have a totally different one?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, there's just no getting around it. I got it wrong. It not... I, I... My prediction was it was gonna be really well received in the market, and it not only wasn't well received in the market, they decided, assessing the market, that they were gonna pull it. And I was shocked. I did not see that coming. And I... The reporting I've seen, although I'm wondering if there's a story behind the story here-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, you always wonder
- SGScott Galloway
... is that the largest shareholder decided, I think, or the largest outside shareholder wanted to sell her entire stake on the day of the IPO, which scared the markets. Typically, when you pull the IPO, it's a fight between the bankers say, "No, this is, this is the number we need to go out at," and management's n- you know, "No, we need to go out at a higher number." And, and the underwriters are like, "No, we can't, we can't sell the book on that." Last Friday, Bloomberg reported that the book was four X oversubscribed. In really strong IPOs, that sounds like a lot. You see eight to 12 in hot IPOs. I still think there's more news here to come out on why they decided to, why they decided to pull, because the numbers on the company were really strong. Look, uh, I guess my prediction, it's sort of broad, but I think that, um, uh, I do think that Apple in the home... You know, Apple is reportedly launching a six-inch home hub October 13th, uh, with personalized information. It, it can run... It, it has door locks, thermostats, FaceTime, media, et cetera. Uh, Google and Apple go- Google and Amazon got there first, but I think Apple is about to employ or deploy their strategy for shareholder value, which I refer to as second mouse, and that is in your home. And you reference this a lot, I think trust is a pretty big deal, and I do think Apple has a lot of trust. Also, the design and feel and self-expressive benefit of the Apple brand I think fits really well in a home. It just feels to me like a lot of first apartments are gonna get gifts of this, as this thing from parents and people. They don't... Apple doesn't need the device to be huge, a huge standalone business. It just makes the iPhone more valuable, and the economics work differently. Am- Amazon wanted an Alexa in your house, so it can sell you more shit. Google wants your house because it wants more data. Apple wants your house because it wants you to never leave Apple, and that's their superpower.
- KSKara Swisher
That's a better thing. No, I, I still... I, I'd even be nervous about Apple. I have to say, I, I, I do not have Alexas. I have them. I don't have the Google Dot, whatever they made. I have it in a box. They're all in a box, every one of them, including my Oura Ring, by the way. Um, but that's just me.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, well-
- KSKara Swisher
Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but just to the notion of the second mouse, they're rarely first to a market, but Apple [chuckles] has this what must be a maddening feature for everyone else in that it's the first to make everybody else's version feel like a prototype.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, except Siri has been such a fucking disaster. I hate Siri.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I agree. I agree.
- KSKara Swisher
I just... If they made a great Siri, I would use that. I wouldn't use any of the others as an agent. Even if it was an extra smart AI-powered one, I would absolutely use an Apple version over everybody, hands down. Hands down.
- SGScott Galloway
I have a series of go-to lines when I go on the board of a big company, and I pretend that I thought about it on the spot, but I'm, like, waiting to say it.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
And that is-
- KSKara Swisher
You have a lot of those
- SGScott Galloway
... really big... [laughs] I do. I just think about it. I don't hear anything anyone's saying. I'm like, "Oh, they're gonna love this. I'm gonna look so smart. Oh, I'm gonna look so funny. When can I say it?"
- KSKara Swisher
I've seen that.
- SGScott Galloway
"Should I say it now?"
- KSKara Swisher
I've seen it.
- SGScott Galloway
"Should I say it now?"
- KSKara Swisher
I've seen this.
- SGScott Galloway
"Should I say now? Okay, here it is. Boom, launch the missile." And then, "Yes, that's right." 301st most powerful woman in DC.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Here I am. Here I am.
- KSKara Swisher
And you're a beardo and a weirdo.
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] Anyways, but one of those things I've been dying to say about this whole Apple thing, or what I say when I come into a company that's a big company, is that big companies, um, they don't, they don't have a talent problem, they have a metabolism problem, and that is big organizations develop antibodies against risk. And, uh, I actually think him cutting layers because-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... innovation is-
- KSKara Swisher
This is John Turnis, yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... is inversely correlated with the number of people who can say no-
Episode duration: 57:41
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