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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

5 Minute Habits to Transform Your Health and Happiness with Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Why is it that so many of us find it hard to stick to a new diet or lifestyle plan? We all start off well enough – full of energy and optimism but then the novelty soon wears off and life gets in the way.

Dr. Ayan PanjaguestDr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Jan 8, 20201h 22mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 0:04

    Intro

    1. AP

      [upbeat music]

  2. 0:04 – 0:47

    Dr. Rangan returns as guest: simplifying health for busy lives

    1. AP

      So I'm super excited because today I get to take over Feel Better, Live More. Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, welcome to your own podcast.

    2. RC

      Thank you for having me, [laughs] Ayan. Thank you. [laughs]

    3. AP

      So listen, we were having a chat this time last year, and that was just before you were publishing your second book, The Stress Solution. And at the end of that conversation, I remember asking you, "What are you gonna be doing in a year's time?" And I remember vividly you saying, "Look, I don't really know. I'm, I'm not sure. But all I do know is that it will involve improving people's health and making that easy for them." We're here now at the end of 2019, in fact, the end of the decade, um,

  3. 0:47 – 2:22

    What “Feel Better in 5” is: practical five-minute actions anyone can do

    1. AP

      and you've got another book on the table that is about to launch, Feel Better in 5. Can you tell us a bit about that?

    2. RC

      Yeah, I'm just thinking back now to that conversation. It was about a year ago, wasn't it? And, um, you did throw me that question right at the end. And just for people listening, you know, we, we don't prepare this. You know, you've not sent me the list of questions-

    3. AP

      [laughs]

    4. RC

      ... you're gonna ask me. You may not even know what you're about to ask me. Um-

    5. AP

      That's a fair point

    6. RC

      ... but I remember you did, you did ask me that question, and yeah, you're right. It, it is, um... I didn't quite know, but I guess if I go back and listen to that, I guess my forecast probably would've been relatively accurate in the sense that I am continuing to, I hope, you know, make health accessible for people, and, um, you know, take a lot of complex ideas a- and break them right down into their most simplest form so people actually feel as though they can do something about it in their own lives. And I think that's what Feel Better in 5 is for me, really. I think it's, it's really almost 20 years of clinical experience of seeing patients, helping people from all walks of life with all kinds of different problems, and actually seeing from them what really works for busy people with busy lives. And really, I put everything that I've learnt into this new book. I think it's my simplest, I think it's my most practical book to date. Um, and it, I think it really tackles the biggest issue at the moment, which is that nobody's got any time, right?

    7. AP

      Absolutely.

  4. 2:22 – 5:43

    Why “I don’t have time” isn’t the real issue—and why all-or-nothing fails

    1. RC

      I mean, you're a GP like me, and people will constantly come in and say to me, "Look, Dr. Chatterjee, I, you know, I get that. I wanna do that. I, I want to do some things that are gonna help me from, you know, with my health and my wellbeing, but I don't have time. I'm busy."

    2. AP

      It's the biggest barrier, 100%.

    3. RC

      Yeah. And so I don't think time has to be the obstacle to health and wellbeing that we think it is. And I think the reason we think it is is because we have been conditioned to think that health is hard-

    4. AP

      Mm

    5. RC

      ... that it's complicated. Let's say you wanna move your body more, right? We've been conditioned to think that that happens if you go to the gym or if you're training for a half-marathon, right? And if you're not doing one of those sort of, uh, l- if you don't have one of those lofty goals, then it doesn't count.

    6. AP

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      And you know, no doubt we'll dive into the book in more detail during this conversation, but I'm really trying to show people that, you know, every little bit does count, right? And five minutes of movement, let's say every day, simple movement, right, that fits in around your lifestyle is gonna have much more impact on your life and your wellbeing than going to the gym for one hour a week. And, um, the thing about this book, it, it all revolves around five minutes. That's why it's called Feel Better in 5. Every single recommendation I make in the book takes five minutes. So even the busiest person really can't say, "I don't have five minutes to do something for my body, or to do something for my mind, or do something for my heart." And I've really given people a lot of options in this book. Um, honestly, you know, I've read a lot of health books. I don't think there's anything out there like it. It's a very different style. There's different formats. Um, it, it, it allows anybody, whether they've already got a significant health problem that they want help with, or whether they simply just wanna optimize how they feel and increase their focus and creativity, right? I think this program works for everyone because you can personalize it.

    8. AP

      Yeah. I mean, I think you've touched on so many things there. The time thing I completely agree with. It's something I hear every day. It's like, "Well, I haven't got time to do this. I haven't got time to do that." And what I [clears throat] also love is when you listen to your podcast, and I have to say, you know, that some of the conversations on your Feel Better, Live More podcast are, are some of the best conversations I've ever heard, honestly. But they're very long form, and some of them, you know, are life-changing in themselves, I think, when you listen to them. But what you've managed to do, I think, with this book, is distill all of that down into these chunk-sized five-minute little slivers, and that, that is not easy. Um, and I was thinking the other day, you know, you and I have known each other for what, 40 years?

    9. RC

      Wow. [laughs]

    10. AP

      Um, which is a long time. [laughs]

    11. RC

      It's a long time.

    12. AP

      Um, and for 25 years of that you've been immersed in medicine, you know, from the day that you started medical school. And, and actually me reading this as someone who knows you very well, um, it really comes across, you know, that all of those years of experience. Um, but w- what I'd like to also just get into a little bit is, you know, I had a, I had a look at this last night and, um, again, it's a beautiful book to look at, but also it's s- it's very, very practical and very,

  5. 5:43 – 7:59

    Different learners, same goal: books + podcast as a combined system

    1. AP

      very easy. What, w- just, just in terms of being helpful to everyone, you know, say I'm 80 years old and I just want to improve my health. What, what can this book do for me and what, you know, how do I use this book? You know, where's the sort of starting point?

    2. RC

      Yeah. I mean, I kind of just touched on something you just mentioned-

    3. AP

      Mm. Yeah

    4. RC

      ... just, just before that, which was the different forms of content-

    5. AP

      Mm

    6. RC

      ... that- But they're out there.

    7. AP

      Yeah.

    8. RC

      You know? And as I said to you at the end of our conversation last year, my goal is to help empower as many people as possible. You know, I've said o- over my career I wanna empower 100 million people to understand that they can be the architects of their own health.

    9. AP

      Yeah.

    10. RC

      Now, the way you do that, I think, is by making health accessible, making it simple.

    11. AP

      It's-

    12. RC

      But you've also got to understand that people learn in different ways.

    13. AP

      Mm.

    14. RC

      People resonate with different kinds of information, right? Some people will like the long form conversation on the podcast. Some people may not. They may feel it's too in-depth and it's not for them. Uh, some people may like the bite-sized chunks of this new book. You know, I hope they do. Some people may... You know, they may, they may like both.

    15. AP

      Mm.

    16. RC

      And I think different people... It's a bit like an approach to health, right? That we always talk about. You've got to personalize your approach to the patient in front of you.

    17. AP

      Absolutely. Yeah.

    18. RC

      Right? And different people like to learn in different ways. So if I am going to get to that 100 million-

    19. AP

      Mm

    20. RC

      ... goal by the end of my career, and I don't know if I will or not, but I think it's a nice thing to aim for-

    21. AP

      Yeah

    22. RC

      ... then I have to be able to deliver content and give people information in a variety of different ways.

    23. AP

      Mm.

    24. RC

      And I actually think that the books actually go really nicely alongside the podcast. So very practical, bite-size, accessible pieces of things to do in the book.

    25. AP

      Mm.

    26. RC

      And if you want a bit more detail, right, you can actually listen to one of the two-hour conversations or one of the one-hour conversations-

    27. AP

      Yeah

    28. RC

      ... when you're commuting to work. And I think it all sort of fits together quite nicely.

    29. AP

      Yeah.

    30. RC

      But, but in terms of your last question, if you're an 80-year-old, um, you know, man or woman, and you wanna do the Feel Better in 5 plan, what can it do for you?

  6. 7:59 – 12:16

    A 360-degree plan for any age: mind, body, and heart outcomes

    1. RC

      Like you, I don't believe that you can be healthy by just focusing on one area of your health, right? And at this time of year, it's very typical that someone will go, "Right, okay. I'm going into the new year, and I'm gonna change my diet this year, and I'm gonna do something this January that I've never done before. I'm gonna get a new diet plan. I'm gonna stick to it. And it's gonna change my life." Right?

    2. AP

      Heard that before. [laughs]

    3. RC

      You've heard that before, and you know, I've probably been guilty of that myself before.

    4. AP

      And me, and me.

    5. RC

      Right? It's, it's a, I think it's a, it's a very common human trait-

    6. AP

      Mm

    7. RC

      ... to do that. But it very much feeds into that all or nothing approach, which I'm, I'm trying to move people away from. But if we take diet, for example, sugar.

    8. AP

      Mm.

    9. RC

      Or the other one you could, you could talk about is alcohol.

    10. AP

      Mm.

    11. RC

      Right? At this time of year, people are trying to reduce their sugar intake. They're trying to reduce how much alcohol they're consuming. And often, first two weeks of January, they'll go completely cold turkey, right? No sugar, no alcohol, right? And for a week or two, they manage to do that, and they're feeling good. They're feeling, you know, they're sleeping better. They've got more energy. They can concentrate for longer. But then two weeks in, three weeks in, it just slowly starts to slip back, and by the end of January, they're right back to where they started. Because maybe the diet or the alcohol wasn't the problem. Maybe they were, maybe they were the way that they coped with the stress that was in their life. Let's say there was a lot of work stress or family stress, right? Well, actually, a bit of sugar in the evening helps kind of numb that a little bit and helps soothe it or-

    12. AP

      It's a stick, it's a sticking plaster, isn't it?

    13. RC

      Sticking plaster, right?

    14. AP

      Yeah.

    15. RC

      And it's same with a, a glass of wine often.

    16. AP

      Mm.

    17. RC

      Um, and, and I found, and I'd be interested in your view on this, because you've got more experience than me as a doctor. What is it now? 22, 23 years working?

    18. AP

      Yeah. Ooh, God, don't know actually. A long time ago.

    19. RC

      A long time.

    20. AP

      Yeah, a long time.

    21. RC

      Yeah. And, and the, and the, and the point is, is that, um, you've got to really understand what that is serving for that patient.

    22. AP

      Mm.

    23. RC

      It's no good saying, "Hey, you're eating too much sugar."

    24. AP

      Mm.

    25. RC

      "You have to reduce it." Right? Well, if we don't understand why they're choosing to do that in the first place, is it a psychological reason? Is it conditioning? Is it they don't know? Is it an education issue, that they don't know how harmful it is, or is it a way to soothe the stress in their life? Actually, depending on which one of those things it is, that will also alter the approach you take. Simply saying, "You've got to reduce your sugar," without understanding why they're doing that-

    26. AP

      Mm

    27. RC

      ... you know what? I just haven't found it to be that useful in the long term.

    28. AP

      Yeah.

    29. RC

      I mean, what do you think on that?

    30. AP

      Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, I think behavior change is, is, is the key to this and understanding what makes you tick. And I think reading through your book, that falls out of this because people will think, "Wait a second, you know, that is why I'm craving sugar at this time of day because whatever. You know, I'm stressed," or they've had sugary snacks earlier in the day, and they're crashing, or they're reliant on caffeine.

  7. 12:16 – 20:17

    The five-minute idea in practice: the kitchen strength-workout story

    1. RC

      But the five minutes, right? It's, it's come from a lot of experience, but also research.

    2. AP

      Mm.

    3. RC

      So the experiences, and there's many patients I could bring up here, but there's one in particular I always remember- Um, a 42-year-old chap who came in to see me, I don't know, seven years ago maybe now. Can't quite remember exactly when it was.

    4. AP

      Mm.

    5. RC

      But he was a little bit overweight-

    6. AP

      Mm

    7. RC

      ... struggling with energy, and struggling with his mood. You know, a very typical patient that you might see in-

    8. AP

      Yeah

    9. RC

      ... general practice. I chatted to him for a while, and I felt that, um, his lifestyle was probably contributing, in a huge part to the way he was feeling. But I don't think he was quite aware of what he was doing that was contributing, and also what he could do about it. So we went through a variety of different things. And at the end of it, he really seemed to enjoy and resonate with what I said about strength training.

    10. AP

      Mm.

    11. RC

      He said, um, "Yeah, I- I'm in, Doc. Strength training, I'm gonna do it. I can see all the benefits for it. And what would you like me to do? 40 minutes, three times a week at the gym?" And I said, "Hey, look, that would be absolutely amazing if you can do that." And he goes, "Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna do it." And he, and he walks out of the surgery, you know, he's feeling good, he's got a smile on his face, and he's full of motivation.

    12. AP

      Mm.

    13. RC

      Right? He comes back a month later at the follow-up, and he walks in. And I say, "Hey, look, so, um, how are you getting on?" And his body language changes. He's... He becomes a bit sunken, his shoulders roll in, and he's, he looks a bit sheepish, and he says, "Hey, Doc, um, I've not actually managed to go yet because, you know, work's been really busy, the gym's quite far away from work and my house, it's quite expensive. Um, so I've just not done it yet." And you know, I remember thinking, I didn't think, why is he not doing what I've asked him to do? I thought, Rangan, you've clearly not given him advice that he feels is relevant in the context of his own life.

    14. AP

      Mm.

    15. RC

      And, you know, I took my jacket off, and I said, "Right, I'm gonna teach you a strength workout right now, where you don't need to join the gym, you don't need to buy any equipment-

    16. AP

      Mm

    17. RC

      ... and you don't even need to get changed." And he's like, "Okay." So I went through it with him.

    18. AP

      Mm.

    19. RC

      I taught him these five moves.

    20. AP

      Was it... Yeah. The kitchen workout. Or not?

    21. RC

      It was, it was, right-

    22. AP

      Was it like a-

    23. RC

      There's, there's a series of one. I mean, that one was a combo.

    24. AP

      I, I do that one. I do that one. [laughs]

    25. RC

      Well, there's, there's, there's, there's a new one in the book-

    26. AP

      Mm

    27. RC

      ... called the classic five.

    28. AP

      Yeah, yeah. Great.

    29. RC

      Which I, I think are the best five body weight exercises that one can do without any equipment.

    30. AP

      Mm.

  8. 20:17 – 24:39

    Designing the book’s structure: why mind, body, and heart

    1. AP

      Yeah, I was just going to come onto that. So it's mind, body, and heart. Tell us a bit about how you came up with that, because that's, I think that, just in terms of getting inside your head, w- why is it those three?

    2. RC

      Okay. So, okay, just to rewind back to when I sat down to write this book-

    3. AP

      Mm

    4. RC

      ... I was thinking, "Okay, I'm really, really happy with the first two books. Really, really happy with how many people have, um, have bought them and are using them to improve their health and their family's health." But I thought, "Well, there's a lot of people out there who probably aren't familiar with my work or this kind of approach to health. So how do you make it more accessible to more people?" And I was thinking, what is the, what is the, the biggest problem that people tell me when they come and see me in my GP practice? And as we mentioned before, it's time, right? People don't feel as though they've got time. Yeah? So I thought, okay, so what, how can I help them understand that they do have time? And I thought about every patient that I've seen-

    5. AP

      Mm

    6. RC

      ... and what works and what doesn't work, and it, and it's really consistently, it's about when you make things practical for people, um, not just practical in terms of time, practical in terms of how easy it is to do something. We'll come, we'll come onto that later, no doubt.

    7. AP

      Mm, mm.

    8. RC

      Then people actually make the changes, and before you know it, they're feeling good and they're empowered to keep going.

    9. AP

      Mm.

    10. RC

      So I knew I wanted to do it around five minutes-

    11. AP

      Mm

    12. RC

      ... because five minutes is, it's short enough of a time, uh, period where you think, "Yeah, I've got five minutes to do this." But it's also long enough where you actually feel the benefit.

    13. AP

      Mm.

    14. RC

      And I think it's trying to get that balance because the only way you're going to keep doing something is when you feel the benefits.

    15. AP

      Yeah.

    16. RC

      And so it's, it's, I think it's in that sweet spot, uh, from what works with people.

    17. AP

      Yeah.

    18. RC

      You know? You can go lower than that, and you can still create habits if you do start with one-minute interventions. You really can.

    19. AP

      Yeah.

    20. RC

      But for some people, especially when you're trying to write a book that's going to appeal to a lot of people, I think five minutes is the right amount of time, uh, for those reasons. But then I also was thinking, okay, I like the idea of five minutes because I've seen that work with patients, but then what actually... H- how do you get that sort of rounded health approach with five-minute intervals?

    21. AP

      Mm.

    22. RC

      Because as we've already mentioned, I don't want to just focus on one area, you know? If you just do five-minute workouts every day, sure, that'll improve your health, but there's other issues going on. And I thought there's issues with our mental health, our physical health, and our emotional health, right? So how can I, how can I really simplify that down to help people?

    23. AP

      Mm.

    24. RC

      And mind is all about doing f- something each day for five minutes that helps you to nourish your mind.

    25. AP

      Mm.

    26. RC

      You know? Um, we're being bombarded in the 21st century with messages, with emails, with things to do, with overload, that's frankly overpowering and overwhelming our minds.

    27. AP

      Mm.

    28. RC

      And that is a huge driver behind our stress levels and the mental health problems that exist. So I thought, okay, so I kind of feel all of us need five minutes on our mind each day. Then I thought, okay, well, we know we need to move more, right? Now, movement can mean many different things to many different people, but I thought, okay, so five-minute movements, um, also works super, super well, and that's really important. Everyone's trying to move more than they already do, but again, a lot of people think they have to go to the gym, right? And it's just simply not true. And I'd say to a lot of people, joining a gym is probably the worst thing they can do.

    29. AP

      Mm.

    30. RC

      Honestly.

  9. 24:39 – 35:47

    Heart as connection: loneliness, compensation behaviors, and the tea ritual

    1. RC

      Right? So that's the body section. But then I thought, 'cause I'd got mind and body sorted first, but I thought there's still something missing here, right? That is not complete health. And I was thinking about what is that other component that is, that is vital to health, and this is the final part of the book, and I actually think it's the most important part of the book. And I say that in the book. I actually say, "You may be skeptical about this section-

    2. AP

      Hmm

    3. RC

      ... but it is the most important section." It's what I've called heart.

    4. AP

      Hmm. It, I, I know exactly what you mean, 'cause when I read it, I... It's, it's wooly and nebulous in comparison to the first two parts, and much harder to define, isn't it? But, but I'm interested to hear what you're gonna say, 'cause I kind of agree with you, but I couldn't justify why. So it'd be great to hear your, your view on it.

    5. RC

      Yeah. Well, what is heart? Heart's... Look, you're a medical student, I was a medical student, right?

    6. AP

      Hmm.

    7. RC

      So we learnt about the heart at medical school. But what we learnt about it was that the heart is a physical organ, right? And it pumps blood around the body, and that's its job.

    8. AP

      Hmm.

    9. RC

      Now, that's one meaning of heart. But what about the other meaning of heart that poets and artists have been waxing lyrical about for years, right? That's got a slightly different meaning. That's about connection, right? That's about connection with other people, the world around us, our friends, our work colleagues, our partners, our children, but also connection with ourself. And the reason I think it's more important than any of the other sections is I have found over and over again, when you get that heart piece right, when you get that connection right, mind and body sort of take care of themselves. But, you know, when we don't have that connection-

    10. AP

      Hmm

    11. RC

      ... we seek to find it or to, or to compensate for it with a lot of our behaviors, whether that's sugar, whether it's alcohol, um, whether it's, you know, mindlessly scrolling Instagram in the evening.

    12. AP

      Hmm.

    13. RC

      It, it, whatever it is, often I've realized, and it's taken me a long time to realize this and seeing a lot of patients, but often that is the drive. And we are living in a, in a society devoid of connection. You know, we're ultra-connected in so many ways, but that's electronic connection, and that's not the same as human, meaningful connection. And, you know, I put some stats in the book, right? The feeling of being lonely is very harmful for our health. You know, if you feel lonely, you're 50% more likely to die earlier than somebody who doesn't. You're 30% more likely to have a heart attack or a stroke than someone who's not. The feeling of being lonely is thought to be as harmful for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

    14. AP

      Yeah, that's the study I've seen. Yeah, yeah.

    15. RC

      Yeah, so the, so we can't ignore that.

    16. AP

      Hmm.

    17. RC

      We can't actually go, "Oh yeah, we've seen all that." But actually, how can I write a health book that I want to help every single person who reads it, and their family, and their community-

    18. AP

      Hmm

    19. RC

      ... how can I write that and not cover this? You know, if for me it would be an incomplete health plan to do that. A- and the, the reality is there's, there's many great health books out there, but one of the things I see over and over again is they, they, a lot of them just focus on one area, and I understand that. And if I was writing books 10 years ago, I might focus on one area. But 20 years of clinical experience teaches me otherwise, in that you have to look at the whole picture, um, b- b- before you get that response. So, so it's mind, it's body, and it's heart, and there's a lot of five-minute health ops. I call them health snacks in the book.

    20. AP

      Hmm.

    21. RC

      You know, they're not literally snacks, although one of them is.

    22. AP

      [laughs]

    23. RC

      Um, they're, they're five-minute health snacks and there's a lot of five-minute, uh, heart snacks. And, you know, these are, these are little five-minute things that you can do, often in the evening-

    24. AP

      Hmm

    25. RC

      ... whether it's gratitude, whether it's sort of journaling practice. Um, you know, one of my favorites, and the one I try and do, um, most evenings, is something that I call the tea ritual. And the tea ritual is something, as I say, I use for myself, but I also use, uh, with many of my patients. And it's really, really simple. The, the idea is that our relationships are under strain these days. You know, look at the divorce rates. They're going through the roof. Uh, you look, you know, I'm sure in your friend's circle and just talking to patients-

    26. AP

      Hmm

    27. RC

      ... would you, would you agree? You know-

    28. AP

      Oh, yeah

    29. RC

      ... everyone's struggling with their relationships.

    30. AP

      Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

  10. 35:47 – 56:45

    Making it stick: pick three, remove choice paralysis, and engineer ease

    1. RC

      Exactly what I'm talking about. And there's all, there's every few parag- every few chapters I've got this theme throughout the book called Making It Stick.

    2. AP

      Mm.

    3. RC

      And they're these one pages-

    4. AP

      Mm

    5. RC

      ... where I teach people, how do you make this new health snack that you may like, how do you make it stick in your life?

    6. AP

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      And I give them, you know, make it very actionable, but it all comes from behavior change science.

    8. AP

      Mm.

    9. RC

      And one of the ways you do it, I've already mentioned about making it easy.

    10. AP

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      Right? But it's going back to these, these, these health books that will work. Anything can work for two weeks, but what I'm interested in, and I, what you're interested in-

    12. AP

      Mm

    13. RC

      ... as doctor is what's gonna still be working in two months-

    14. AP

      Mm

    15. RC

      ... in two years.

    16. AP

      Absolutely, yeah.

    17. RC

      Right? What's gonna stop and break this cycle of this new year, new you market every January, right?

    18. AP

      [laughs]

    19. RC

      Where suddenly everyone's buying health and wellbeing books.

    20. AP

      Mm.

    21. RC

      And then by February, they're sort of on the shelf somewhere, having not doing them. Right? I, I very much hope mine don't fall into that category. I try my best for them not to. And judging from the comments I get, and the, the emails and the, the messages, I think people are using my books throughout the year-

    22. AP

      Mm

    23. RC

      ... which, which feels amazing to me. But I think, I really do think this is the most practical of the lot. And for someone who's really struggling, this is probably one of the most effective health plans I think that they're gonna be able to do. Um, so when we talk about behavior change, right? You gotta make it easy.

    24. AP

      Mm.

    25. RC

      Right? And let me just draw a contrast, um, or a comparison with Amazon.

    26. AP

      Yeah.

    27. RC

      Right? So, you know, Amazon, big business, I don't know, probably one of the world's biggest businesses, I'm guessing-

    28. AP

      Mm

    29. RC

      ... in terms of turnover. Now, when Amazon moved to one-click ordering a few years ago-

    30. AP

      Mm

  11. 56:45 – 1:18:01

    Big vision: spreading the 5–5–5 plan into schools, workplaces, and healthcare

    1. AP

      Yeah. Well, I, I'd like to sort of ask you what I did last year. So what is in store for you and for this in the next year? And not just the next year, we're at the end of the decade. Let's imagine we're sitting here and it's nearly 2030, 10 years' time. We're in the same, we're having the same sort of conversation. What does the world look like then, and how has your work impacted it?

    2. RC

      You like asking big questions, don't you?

    3. AP

      [laughs] Yeah. There's no point otherwise, is there?

    4. RC

      That's it. That's it. [laughs]

    5. AP

      But I think, I think... No, and genuinely because I think, I think this is much needed at the moment, you know. And I, I see it 'cause I'm at the coalface. I think it's very easy for people who... 'Cause I, I know you've said this to, to me before where [laughs] someone stopped you in the street after you'd written your first book and said, you know, "What's the big deal? It's like eat, move, sleep, relax. I mean, so what?" You know, like it was like [laughs] something that they could've just pulled out of their backside. But, but the point is that, you know, it, it's a very hard book to write and people don't understand. And I think particularly, you know, people in the, the medical or scientific community who, who, whose radar's really not involved in this 'cause their jobs and their roles are sort of so deep dive that they ki- they kind of don't quite get this and it's all a bit wooly. Um, but actually even a lot of them ha- have been I, I wouldn't say converted 'cause that makes it sound like there's some sort of cult thing about this, and there isn't, 'cause it's all based on, you know, proper science. And you've managed very cleverly, I think, to distill it down. But how can... I'm more interested in the sort of knock-on ripple effect, 'cause one of the things I notice is if I gave this book to a friend of mine and it had a massive effect on them, you can bet your bottom dollar it'd have a massive effect on their friend because suddenly they'd think, you know, just like you said about our mutual friend in Devon, it's like, "Wait a minute, you look ripped," you know? And that, that sort of triggers something. It's what I call friendly jealousy, and that's another way of changing your behaviors. You see that your friend suddenly looks fantastic and think, "I want a bit of that." How can you leverage that, you know, in terms of what's in this book and looking ahead for a year and then 10 years?

    6. RC

      Yeah. Look, um, I think you touched on quite a few really, really important points there. Um, I guess for the next year, to start there, what I would love to see for, you know, the Feel Better in 5 program-

    7. AP

      Mm

    8. RC

      ... is, I guess, widely adopted by everyone.

    9. AP

      Mm.

    10. RC

      And what I mean by that is it's deceptively simple, but every single person in this country would benefit from spending five minutes a day on their minds, five minutes a day on their body, and five minutes a day on their hearts, right? So if everyone adopts that, we're gonna very quickly have a happier, healthier, more productive society, right? So I would love people who buy the book and who are finding it beneficial, I'd love them to share that with their family and their friends, whether it's telling them, whether it's putting it on social media, you know. And, and actually, let's try and engage that ripple effect to get this idea out to more people, right? I'd love to see this idea in schools. I'd love to get this, this idea of five minutes for your mind, five minutes for your body, five minutes for your heart into every single school in the United Kingdom, right?

    11. AP

      Mm.

    12. RC

      Schools are facing unprecedented levels of stress and anxiety, mental health worries, right? Many teachers have contacted me along my way. I'd love to try and help schools, um, by developing some resources if I can. It's just about time and getting people to help me.

    13. AP

      Yeah.

    14. RC

      But I think this plan is the perfect plan. It's the perfect blend of effectiveness and practicality. Every school could fit it y- into their busy curriculum, you know?

    15. AP

      Yeah.

    16. RC

      Ev- a teacher listening to this, I hope they think, "You know what? When I talk to the headmaster or headmistress of my school and say, 'Well, why don't we adopt this? Why don't we have this idea, five minutes for mind, five minutes for body, five minutes for heart?'" It's so simple.

    17. AP

      Mm.

    18. RC

      It's almost too simple.

    19. AP

      Yeah. [laughs]

    20. RC

      Do you know what I mean? It's almost too simple.

    21. AP

      Mm.

    22. RC

      Almost we've been conditioned to think it's gotta be harder than that.

    23. AP

      Mm.

    24. RC

      No, it doesn't, right? Because when we think it's gotta be harder than that, we end up doing nothing. We end up saying, "Oh, we can't do anything." You know, there's nothing we can do. It's too hard. It's not that hard. We've all got five minutes.

    25. AP

      Mm.

    26. RC

      So schools. You know, I'd love... The NHS, the, the, the staff, you know, 53% of NHS staff I think are overweight or obese. That's a stat from about five or six years ago.

    27. AP

      Mm.

    28. RC

      It's probably higher than that now.

    29. AP

      Yeah.

    30. RC

      Right? What if this was taught in medical schools? What if as part of our wellbeing, this concept became something that we all think about in our own lives, you know, in the evening? God, have I done five minutes on mind, five minutes of body, five minutes of heart today?

  12. 1:18:01 – 1:22:25

    Closing lessons: motivation waves, triggers, fun, and self-understanding

    1. RC

      So I, I do-

    2. AP

      [laughs]

    3. RC

      I think there's loads of tips in there.

    4. AP

      Yeah.

    5. RC

      Right? But as you know, I thought you were gonna ask me this actually, but you didn't, so I'm gonna throw it to you.

    6. AP

      Oh, man.

    7. RC

      As you know, it's called Feel Better, Live More. When we feel better in ourselves-

    8. AP

      Mm

    9. RC

      ... we get more out of our lives.

    10. AP

      Mm. Mm.

    11. RC

      And I always love to leave, um, the listeners with some actionable tips.

    12. AP

      Right, okay.

    13. RC

      Like things that they can think about doing. I can see the pressure mounting on your face now. [laughs]

    14. AP

      The pressure. There's so many. There's so many.

    15. RC

      But things that they can do in their own life-

    16. AP

      Yeah

    17. RC

      ... immediately-

    18. AP

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... to improve the way that they feel. Now, it doesn't have to be related to what we've spoken about.

    20. AP

      Mm.

    21. RC

      It can be.

    22. AP

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      But anything, I mean, you, you are a damn good clinician yourself. You get amazing feedback from your patients. It's clear to me and your friends why that is. You've got a lot of really interesting ideas on health.

    24. AP

      Mm.

    25. RC

      And again, you've got a proven track record of getting people better over and over again. So I would love-

    26. AP

      Mm

    27. RC

      ... for you to share, Ayan Panja, some of your top tips for the listeners of my podcast.

    28. AP

      Um, I think you've summed it up in the last hour. [laughs]

    29. RC

      [laughs]

    30. AP

      But, um, I, I think it's interesting because we've talked a lot about behavior change, and that to me is something that doctors don't talk about enough. So I don't want to talk about, you know, drink more water and, you know, 'cause all that stuff is logical and, and, and people know that stuff. What I would say is, is try and understand what makes you tick. So in terms of behavior change, you know, there are so many categories. I, I've done, I've had one myself recently, so I've given up caffeine. And if you'd asked me six weeks ago whether I thought I could live without coffee, I would say no way, because I'd... I love the smell of it, the taste of it, making it, you know, and in every morning, you know, like an addict almost, I would get down the stairs and the first thing I would do is put the kettle on. And how I managed to stop that was what I call a happy accident. So I forgot to have it one morning, and I'd got to the end of the afternoon and thought, "I haven't had any caffeine today." And I thought, "But I feel okay. Maybe I'll try it tomorrow." And I felt fine the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and actually I feel better off it. And unlike with your story, it hasn't impacted any other habits of mine. So what I would say to anyone listening to this is if you have any happy accidents that change your behavior, then capitalize on it. So a lot of people find this with irritable bowel syndrome. They suddenly run out of milk or orange juice, and they don't drink it for a week, and they're like, "Well, do you know what? You know, I, I think it was milk all along that is causing my IBS." You know, it's a happy accident. So going a bit off-key here, but, so that's one thing. The other is, the other is about, um, not waiting. So we talked on the phone the other day a bit about this, but, you know, the unthinkable happens or something tragic happens, like your best friend dies of cancer or has a heart attack, and that triggers behavior change. What I would say is those two things are poles apart. They're both things that trigger behavior change, but you do not want to wait till that second one happens. You can do it now, and I think focusing on, on, on some of the themes that you've written in this book are, are essential. Working out how you tick, what makes you tick, is really the essence of how happy you are, how healthy you are, and, and will affect the rest of your life, you know? I think when, particularly when people are younger, and I see a lot of my patients who have addictions, they don't know why they have them. You know, to me, it's sort of, I wouldn't say it's obvious, but I can see through their life story why they've ended up in a position where they're gambling or they're drinking too much or they're, you know, they keep getting into trouble. Um, but everyone has the ability to s- you know, to slightly unpick that, and I think that's my one tip is just think about your behaviors, think about what makes you tick, and understand that you, you do have the ability to change them and you can take control.

Episode duration: 1:22:31

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