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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

Neuroscientist: The Fastest Way To Get Alzheimer's & Dementia - That Most People Do! | Louisa Nicola

Today’s guest is neurophysiologist and brain health researcher, Louisa Nicola. Louisa is founder of Neuro Athletics, where she works with high-performing individuals to optimise their cognitive function.

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostLouisa Nicolaguest
Apr 20, 202520mWatch on YouTube

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  1. 0:00 – 1:32

    How Deep Sleep Clears Amyloid via the Glymphatic System

    1. RC

      What would you like everyone to know about the relationship between sleep and brain function?

    2. LN

      First of all, sleep is, uh, the, the best way for you to clear out these amyloid proteins that build up during the day.

    3. RC

      Wow.

    4. LN

      When we sleep, we dip into our, our deep sleep zone, which is stage three sleep. We generally... When I talk about sleep, I really just talk about stage three sleep and stage four. Now, stage three is non-rapid eye movement sleep. This is our deepest sleep possible. Two major things happen during this stage. This... And this is towards the, you know, around 90 minutes after-

    5. RC

      Mm

    6. LN

      ... you fall asleep. We go into our deep sleep zone. You're activating something called the glymphatic system, and this is when all of the cerebral spinal fluid in our brain washes out all of the debris. So those, those toxins that built up that we mentioned earlier, the environmental toxins, the mycotoxins, and the amyloid beta, when that builds up in the brain, it has a chance at, at night during deep slow-wave sleep to be cleared out, and it does this because the certain are- there's certain brain cells in our brain called glial cells, they, they shrink in size, and they, they stick between neurons as well. They're our immunity, uh, our immunity cell. They shrink in size, and that's what allows the cerebral spinal fluid to act like a washing machine.

    7. RC

      So sleep's important to clear out-

    8. LN

      Yeah

    9. RC

      ... toxins that may build up over the years.

    10. LN

      Yes.

  2. 1:32 – 4:08

    Sleep, Immunity and the Epigenetic Cost of Six Hours

    1. RC

      Just a reminder for people what we said right at the start, which is this idea that beta amyloid protein, which, yes, we do see in people's brains with Alzheimer's, is not really the root cause of what's going on, and beta amyloid perhaps is a response to inflammation and stress and all kinds of modern-day insults, and that accumulation may well be starting at the age of 30 or 25. Okay?

    2. LN

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      So when we think about that, you're now connecting sleep, saying, "Listen, this stuff may start to appear in your brain because of the stressful toxic lives many of us now lead," especially we live in urban environments, right? But actually, one of the best ways to insulate yourself from that potential damage and accumulation is to focus on your sleep.

    4. LN

      Yes. Remember also I mentioned that the amyloid gets, gets triggered due to the innate immune system.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. LN

      It's the body's first line. Then we've got the adaptive immune system, which is meant to take over-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. LN

      ... and basically calm down the innate immune system. So this is your chance, all right, of when you're sleeping, you're also building up immunity. We've actually seen through a, a really well-documented study in pr- presented in PN- PNAS, where they took a group of healthy men, and they subjected them to sleep deprivation for one week, which was around six hours per night, just in one week, and what they found over just that seven-day period was that they had a epigenetic change of 3%. So they, they changed their genome. So we have around 20,000 genes in our human genome. They changed 3% of this genome. So they changed around, I think it was 711 genes.

    9. RC

      For the worse?

    10. LN

      For the worse.

    11. RC

      Hold on a minute. Did you say they were deprived-

    12. LN

      Just for one week.

    13. RC

      But the sleep-deprived individuals were sleeping six hours a night.

    14. LN

      Yes.

    15. RC

      Right, six hours a night is-

    16. LN

      I know, and that's the problem

    17. RC

      ... is actually what some people are, are happy if they're getting six hours a night. That's their, "Hey, I had a great night. I slept for six hours."

    18. LN

      Yeah.

    19. RC

      And that was the sleep deprivation, so that impacts the way your genes are expressed. Okay, there is a growing awareness in society, particularly people who listen to health podcasts, of the importance of sleep, but you specifically focused on stage three and stage four-

    20. LN

      Yeah

    21. RC

      ... the deeper phases of sleep. Now, most people are not going to a sleep lab every night and tracking what their phases of sleep are.

    22. LN

      Mm.

  3. 4:08 – 5:25

    Quantity, Regularity and Consistent Sleep Timing

    1. RC

      So how do people know if they are getting these phases or not?

    2. LN

      Well, before they even, even look into that, right, let's get the basics down.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. LN

      What are the most important factors of sleep? We've got quality, obviously. Quantity, I do believe we should all be sleeping at minimum seven and a half hours of sleep. If you've had a really tough day both physically, mentally, emotionally-

    5. RC

      Mm

    6. LN

      ... maybe you need eight and a half or nine hours. Everybody's different, but at minimum, I believe every human should be sleeping seven and a half hours. The second thing to that, what we're now finding in the research is regularity is-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. LN

      ... actually more important than anything else, which sucks, right? But, so you need to be sleeping every night at the same time and waking up at the same time every day. Now, that's hard because we're not robots, so what I say is stick to 80% of the time-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. LN

      ... you're sleeping regularly. So my bedtime is, you know, if I'm lucky, 10:00 PM. 10:00 PM till 6:00 AM, that is a beautiful sleep if I get that, and I try and stay within around, you know, 10 to 20% of that. So maybe I'll sleep at 10:30 one night, maybe 11:00, but I wouldn't be sleeping at 2:00 AM one night, 9:00 PM the next night. There's too much variation.

  4. 5:25 – 9:30

    Rangan's Routine, Brain Fog and Sleep Trackers

    1. RC

      Yeah. I think the... Was it the UK Biobank-

    2. LN

      Yes

    3. RC

      ... study?

    4. LN

      Yeah.

    5. RC

      Loads of people, they showed what, it's like a 10% variation-

    6. LN

      Mm

    7. RC

      ... was starting to be associated with negative outcomes, I think.

    8. LN

      Yes, and, and increases in all-cause mortality, and I believe it comes down to what I just mentioned with the epigenetic change. You know how I said 711 genes? Half of them were upregulated, mean that they were switched on. That's what genes do. They switch on and switch off.

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. LN

      The ones that switched on were the genes responsible for tumor production. So you're increasing your likelihood of developing cancer from sleep deprivation. The ones that were down-regulated were the immunity genes.

    11. RC

      Yeah. I've always been, I feel, very susceptible to changes in, uh, my daily rhythms. I, I know I've always felt great when there's a consistency. I think everyone does, frankly.

    12. LN

      Oh, yeah.

    13. RC

      Not everyone c- can do that. Shift work, you know, all kinds of things. I, I've said this many times on the podcast, but, but I'll, I'll repeat it again in case it's new information for people. Like, I, I really prioritize my bedtimes.

    14. LN

      Yeah.

    15. RC

      You know? I, I'm, I'm asleep by 9:00 PM most nights.

    16. LN

      Oh, wow.

    17. RC

      Yeah. And again-

    18. LN

      Okay

    19. RC

      ... that works for me.

    20. LN

      Yeah.

    21. RC

      At this stage of my life, with kids and, you know, I'm happily married and all this kind of stuff, that works for me. I'm not saying it works for anyone else, but yesterday I did something I haven't done in years, which is, uh, I'm making a, a TV documentary at the moment about smartphones. I forgot how long filming days are, and I didn't get back to my hotel last night till about quarter to 11. Um, so normally I would've slept by an hour and 45 minutes. So I got back to the hotel, then I had to unwind, and although I slept pretty well last night, I'm feeling it today.

    22. LN

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      And it... So I think I got maybe enough hours, 'cause I did lie in a bit, which is unusual for me, but I'm not my best self, and I'm sure missing that routine, you know, 9:00 to 5:00, I, I think that's-

    24. LN

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... one of the main reasons why.

    26. LN

      And this is one of the main reasons why a lot of people feel like they've got brain fog.

    27. RC

      Yeah, exactly.

    28. LN

      And they're like, "Why do I have brain fog?" It's like, well, did you sleep, and did you activate that glymphatic system to clear out all of these toxins, which are pretty much what's giving you that brain fog? So when it comes to sleep, without getting too deep into it, we really need to prioritize it. And you mentioned earlier, like, how do we track it? Yes, caveat, you can wear a sleep tracker. I've got an Oura Ring on right now. I love it. I sleep on a temperature-controlled mattress. My house is pretty much like a lab. It's not that accurate. I wanna be clear on that.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. LN

      I don't care... You know what the best thing this does is? It, I use it for heart rate variability and how long I stayed in bed.

  5. 9:30 – 11:39

    Switching Off at Night: Journaling, Standards and Calming Supplements

    1. RC

      And some of these high performers who come in to see you at Neuro Athletics, would you say some of them, because they're so on and wired with work and stuff, struggle to switch off at night?

    2. LN

      Yes.

    3. RC

      And if so, what are some of your top tips to help people with that?

    4. LN

      So I generally like to ask two questions. Are you having trouble falling asleep, or are you having trouble staying asleep? I, I find that once men reach the age of around 55 and above, they tend to start waking up and going to the toilet at around 4:00 AM, and they switch the light on, and then they can't get back to sleep. But if we're talking about my high performers, it's always, "I'm having trouble settling my mind down." So I attack this from a behavioral perspective and also a supplement perspective. So from a behavioral perspective, what I want everyone to do is actually just write down everything that you have in your head before you go to sleep. Your brain wants to be able to process it.

    5. RC

      Mm.

    6. LN

      If you're not gonna process it on a- another individual, probably not your, your spouse, but if you wanna just process it in a journal, just write down all the things that are worrying you-

    7. RC

      Mm

    8. LN

      ... 'cause that's what's keeping you up at night. Setting clear guidelines and standards with yourself. Here's something to recognize. Most of my clients who are high-performing, they don't set goals, they set standards. They have a standard for I'm gonna be offline at 8:00, 8:30 PM. I'm gonna dim the lights. I'm gonna have my last meal by 8:30. And then once you get into that routine, you, your, your brain settles down. In terms of supplementation, and by the way, everybody should always talk to their, their healthcare provider, but there are supplements that can help you-

    9. RC

      Mm

    10. LN

      ... really downregulate cortisol, such as ashwagandha.

    11. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    12. LN

      I love turmeric. Turmeric has a really great role in inhibiting this, uh, this pathway. It's called the NF-kappa B pathway. It's an inflammatory pathway. But then even GABA, gamma-aminobutyric acid, has really been shown to help people with a racing mind, and you can get all of these over the counter. G-A-B-A. It really just settles your mind down and helps-

    13. RC

      Mm

    14. LN

      ... you fall asleep.

  6. 11:39 – 14:04

    Creatine Monohydrate: What It Is and Why Louisa Recommends It

    1. RC

      Any other supplements you recommend for other reasons?

    2. LN

      Oh, yes. Uh, okay, so we're getting into it now. I've gone viral for talking about this one supplement.

    3. RC

      Okay. [laughs]

    4. LN

      Okay? I don't know why, but, uh, it's creatine, um, creatine monohydrate. It helps with cell energy metabolism, and we used to think of creatine back in the day of this bodybuilding drug, but creatine is so much more than that. It is the safest supplement on the market. It is the most studied, and it's arguably the cheapest. It may not be cheap, but in terms of other supplements, it's the cheapest. So we have natural stores of creatine in our body, but this one, if you take monohydrate specifically, it helps give your cell more energy, and it also helps with your brain.

    5. RC

      If someone's listening to this-

    6. LN

      Yeah

    7. RC

      ... and they're not pro supplements-

    8. LN

      Mm

    9. RC

      ... they're like, "You know, I think supplements are overhyped. I'm a food first guy," or whatever it might be, why would you recommend they consider taking creatine?

    10. LN

      So first of all, there's two supplements I recommend everyone take regardless of a blood panel.

    11. RC

      Wow.

    12. LN

      I would never tell you to take zinc if your zinc levels were fine. I would never tell you to take vitamin D if you had, if your vitamin D was 60 nanograms per deciliter. However, creatine and omega-3 fatty acids, by far across the board everyone should be taking them.

    13. RC

      And why do you say that?

    14. LN

      It doesn't affect hair loss. It doesn't affect your kidneys. It doesn't have any damaging effects in any way. It doesn't make you big or bulky or bloated, and it helps with the stores of creatine in your body. We already... Guys, we already have creatine in our, in our body. You're getting-

    15. RC

      What is it? Explain to me, what is creatine?

    16. LN

      It basically helps with the regeneration of ATP, and ATP is the currency of energy within the mitochondria of our cell.

    17. RC

      Okay, so people might hear that and go, "Okay, so is it gonna give me more energy if I take it?"

    18. LN

      Yes, it's going to. Oh, well, not as, not as in caffeine energy.

    19. RC

      Okay.

    20. LN

      We're not talking stimulant energy. It's going to help your cells work better. I've not seen, uh, an, a, a really well-designed study to show that creatine has any negative side effects.

  7. 14:04 – 15:33

    Creatine Dosage and Brain Benefits

    1. RC

      When our mutual friend Tommy Wood last appeared on this podcast, I think Tommy's been on three or even four times over the years. I love Tommy, I think he's fantastic. He's so knowledgeable.

    2. LN

      Mm.

    3. RC

      He puts everything in context. There's n- appropriate nuance when he talks about different concepts. He also is a big fan-

    4. LN

      Oh, yeah

    5. RC

      ... of creatine.

    6. LN

      And Tommy will probably also, he probably also stated that it's neuroprotective. It protects the brain cells against certain insults.

    7. RC

      So if someone wants to start taking it, you're saying they don't need a blood test?

    8. LN

      Nope.

    9. RC

      And are there different dosages and things that they should be thinking about?

    10. LN

      Yeah. You can start on five grams a day, and for the ladies listening, this is not going to make you bigger. I just want everyone to be aware of that.

    11. RC

      Mm.

    12. LN

      You can start, minimum recommendation is five grams a day. You can take it pre-workout, post-workout, at night, in the morning, in your coffee. You can take it anytime, anywhere.

    13. RC

      Wow.

    14. LN

      If you want the more brain health benefits, so I mentioned earlier my father had a stroke in 2019. I would get him to be taking 10 to 12 grams of creatine, because you do lose the bioavailability when it crosses the blood-brain barrier, and it's uptaken by the neurons.

    15. RC

      So you want more there to start with?

    16. LN

      You want more, yes.

    17. RC

      And it's a powder that you put in water?

    18. LN

      Yeah, it's just a, a scoop. It usually comes in a five gram scoop. "But Louisa, can't we get creatine from the meat we eat?" Yes, but it's a very, very small amount, and it's not that bioavailable.

  8. 15:33 – 17:25

    Omega-3s: Anti-Inflammatory Role and the 4% Mortality Comparison

    1. RC

      Okay. Omega-3s, why do you recommend those for everyone? And also, you said specifically you don't need to do any testing beforehand.

    2. LN

      No. I mean, you can get a, a test, an omega-3 index test. Really good pin prick test, and it will test the amount of omega-3s in your red blood cell. It gives you a percentage. If you are part of the average population in the US, you will get a, a 4% result, which will put you in the same category in terms of all-cause mortality as a pack-a-day smoker.

    3. RC

      So hold on a minute.

    4. LN

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      The normal population in the US have levels of omega-3 in their body that puts them at the same risk as someone who smokes a packet of cigarettes a day?

    6. LN

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      You're gonna have to explain that to my audience.

    8. LN

      Mind-blowing. Yes. So we want... So omega-3 fatty acids, which come from fatty fish, it's made up of three parts, EPA, DHA, and ALA. I'm not going to touch on ALA, because that's the, that's the plant-based-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. LN

      ... omega-3 that we get from flaxseeds. We know that we need an omega-3 qu- content in our body for the survival and growth of our cells. It helps with many things. The first thing that it does is it acts as an anti-inflammatory. It is, has a way better safety profile than Nurofen, for example, the, the NSAIDs. It's, it has a high safety profile. It acts, in my opinion, as an FDA-approved drug. So it is incredible for down-regulating inflammation. The second thing that it does is it helps with cell membrane fluidity. So the way that our cells move throughout our body, it helps with the outer-

    11. RC

      Mm

    12. LN

      ... portion of our cell. It even helps in some instances with ameliorating some of these plaques, the amyloid beta.

  9. 17:25 – 20:32

    Omega-3 for Vegans, Testing with OmegaQuant, and Feeding the Brain

    1. RC

      And is it more important in your view for people who are choosing to be vegan or vegetarian, is it even more important for them, do you think?

    2. LN

      Yes, because they cannot get it naturally from their diet. And I understand that there's going to be... And I've, I've got friends in the plant-based community who will argue and throw different studies at me to prove otherwise. But a lot of these studies are done looking at four grams of EPA and DHA d- per day. I don't know where you're going to get that from.

    3. RC

      Yeah. When I touched on this with Tommy, actually, we discussed this issue with, uh, you know, meat eaters, uh, vegans, and, and any combination in between, and we were really discussing that everyone converts, um-

    4. LN

      ALA, yeah

    5. RC

      ... to these ALA in, in, in, in different amounts-

    6. LN

      Mm-hmm

    7. RC

      ... depending on genetics-

    8. LN

      Yeah

    9. RC

      ... and all kinds of different factors. So one of the things we discussed was if you have access to an omega-3 test, let's see what your level is.

    10. LN

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      If you're vegan and that level is really good- He was saying, well, maybe you don't need to supplement

    12. LN

      Exactly

    13. RC

      ... you know? But maybe that's where a, an omega-3 test could be potentially very, very useful. There's quite a few out there. Is there one specifically that you recommend?

    14. LN

      OmegaQuant by Dr. Bill Harris.

    15. RC

      Yeah. And why is it that one you recommend as opposed to a lot of the other ones out there?

    16. LN

      Well, this one specifically measures the omega-3 in the red blood cell. If you were to get this done by your general practitioner, they're not measuring the amount of omega-3s in the red blood cells. So this one is really accurate. It's the only one I've used. So I, I, I like it. I like that it's a pin prick test. It's easy. It's affordable.

    17. RC

      Yeah. Do you know what I like about that is ultimately whenever we are debating, you know, can one get enough omega-3 from this diet or that diet, we kinda forget that we're all individuals. So maybe some people actually can on a particular diet, but that's where I think testing, the right test-

    18. LN

      Exactly

    19. RC

      ... perhaps can become really, really valuable because then you know. You're like, actually, yeah, I'm one of these people who maybe genetically, and whatever other reasons are there, am able to have adequate levels of omega-3 with what I'm currently doing. But other people may find, actually, wow, that's really low. It's increasing my risk of dying-

    20. LN

      Of dying, yes

    21. RC

      ... like you just mentioned, right? So maybe I need to either up things in my diet, or I need to take a supplement.

    22. LN

      Not just that. Remember earlier how I said 20% of the lipid component in your brain is made of DHA?

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. LN

      It's made of DHA, so you're literally feeding your brain what it's made of.

    25. RC

      [Instrumental music] If you enjoyed that short clip, I think you are really going to enjoy the full conversation, which you can check out here. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 20:32

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