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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

The SURPRISING SCIENCE On How The Body HEALS ITSELF With Food! | Rupy Aujla

To get 1 year's FREE VITAMIN D and 5 FREE TRAVEL PACKS visit Do you believe that food can be medicine? Most of us would agree that a healthy diet – whatever that means to the individual – is vital to our wellbeing.

Rupy AujlaguestDr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
May 11, 20221h 54mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:39

    Rupy’s first atrial fibrillation episode: from junior doctor to patient overnight

    1. RA

      Food is not a pill. It's not a symptom killer. It's a way in which you can build a more resilient body and mind

    2. RC

      Yeah. You were having scary heart problems. You change your diet and your lifestyle, and you no longer have heart problems. [upbeat music] We're both really passionate about the healing power of food and what it can do for a whole variety of different conditions. But I think what happened to you in your early 20s-

    3. RA

      Mm

    4. RC

      ... really shows just how powerful food can be.

    5. RA

      Mm.

    6. RC

      So I wonder if you could take us through what happened, how old were you? You know, what were the health problems that you were struggling with?

    7. RA

      Yeah.

    8. RC

      And how did you sort of go ahead and deal with them?

    9. RA

      I started having palpitations, and I remember vividly the first time I had it, I was sat at the nurse's station casually writing in my notes, and I could feel nauseous and my heart beating through my, through my shirt. I could almost see it, like, jittering on, on, on my chest. And I turned to my registrar, and I was like, "Look, I feel my heart's going a little bit faster. Would you mind feeling my pulse?" And literally within five minutes, bleep taken off me, hooked up to a cardiac monitor, and the, the ECG showed barn door atrial fibrillation. So I was in AF, which is an irregular heart rhythm where your heart beats irregularly and, in my case, very, very fast, so like 200 beats per minute. And that was my first experience of being a patient myself. Up to that point, I think if I'm being honest with myself, I had that sort of exterior of authority.

    10. RC

      Yeah

    11. RA

      Like, you know, I'm a, I'm a junior doctor, I've got this stethoscope. I'm charging up and down the ward, speaking to patients. You know, really leaning into that idea of, like, a doctor.

    12. RC

      Yeah

    13. RA

      Uh, that sort of, that identity. That was, and that was quickly stripped away from me qui- In, in an instant, I was in a patient hospital gown. I was hooked up to a cardiac monitor. I was being... This is a memory that I have, being wheeled down the corridor, everyone else minding their own business. But for me, that was so embarrassing. That was-

    14. RC

      Yeah

    15. RA

      ... so embarrassing seeing all these people walk past me, and me being in a hospital gown, when moments before, I was in the corridor probably attending to patients-

    16. RC

      Yeah

    17. RA

      ... that I'd been seeing. Do you know what I mean? And-

    18. RC

      You were 24 at the time?

    19. RA

      Yeah, I was 24.

    20. RC

      24.

    21. RA

      Unusual. Very rare.

    22. RC

      A- and in good health until then, would you say?

    23. RA

      You would say that. Generally good health, so-

    24. RC

      As in no kind of diagnosis or preexisting condition that anyone knew about?

    25. RA

      Exactly. Yeah.

    26. RC

      Yeah.

    27. RA

      So nothing in my family to suggest that I would have any cardiac problems. I wasn't overweight.

    28. RC

      Yeah.

    29. RA

      I didn't have any blood work issues. I'd never, you know, had any... I wasn't even drinking caffeine at the time. There was nothing in my personal medical history that would have predisposed me to having this issue, and that was, that was the start of my journey as a patient. Luckily, I didn't need a cardioversion. I, I left, uh, the hospital the next day, going back to work a few days later actually, with some medications, an antiarrhythmic pill in the pocket, we call it, flecainide. And I-

    30. RC

      Were you scared?

  2. 3:39 – 5:27

    Living with unpredictable episodes and the frustration of no clear triggers

    1. RA

      ... scared as well. Even though I, I was a doctor, I knew what was going on, but that was scary. And, and what was scary was the lack of control because this wasn't a one-off episode, as I came to f- find out. I thought it might be a one-off. You know, maybe I didn't have enough water that day. Maybe I was a bit stressed. Maybe I hadn't slept properly. You know, there's a whole bunch of reasons as to why someone might flip into atrial fibrillation as a one-off, but then it would happen again and again, two to three times a week, lasting anywhere between 12 and 36 hours, 200 beats per minute. You know, it was a chronic issue that was seemingly getting worse.

    2. RC

      And, and the first time it happened, it happens, you're in the hospital.

    3. RA

      Mm.

    4. RC

      Did some of the time it happen when you were trying to relax at home, or you're out with your friends, you know? And what are you experiencing at that time? You know, yes, you can feel your heart beating, but is it hard to take a breath? I mean-

    5. RA

      Mm

    6. RC

      ... just paint a picture of what that, what that's like.

    7. RA

      Yeah, absolutely. I would love to have said that it was a triggering event. Um, you know, whether it was stress at, at home or hospital. But honestly, I could be going to play tennis and just about getting my racket out the bag, and then I'd flip into AF. That was incredibly frustrating. Sometimes I'd be having dinner, and I would just flip into AF. There was no seeming pattern of why I was having-

    8. RC

      Mm

    9. RA

      ... these issues. And when I was having that, it was nausea. It was a bit of sweatiness. It was an uncomfortable feeling that I'm about-

    10. RC

      Mm

    11. RA

      ... to faint. Um, it almost felt like a bit of a panic attack, and there's probably some stresses involved in that as well that lead you to that sort of impending doom. But this was a, a real physical symptom-

    12. RC

      Yeah

  3. 5:27 – 7:25

    Medical workup and initial treatment options: medication, studies, and ablation discussions

    1. RA

      ... that I caught multiple times on ECGs because there was a suggestion from a different, a number of different cardiologists that I saw at the time, I saw a whole bunch, about whether what type of, uh, arrhythmia this was. Was it a reentry pathway? Was it barn door atrial fibrillation? Was it flutter? You know. But w- we, we found out after doing some electrophysiology studies, which is where you put a guide wire into the heart, and you look at the electrical impulses and seeing where they're coming from-

    2. RC

      Yeah

    3. RA

      ... that this was definitely atrial fibrillation. But it was, it was almost the, um... It was not knowing when it was gonna happen as well-

    4. RC

      Yeah

    5. RA

      ... that was really frustrating.

    6. RC

      That, that, that lack of control, I mean- You know, whether it's with your case or if I think about just any number of patients, when, when there is that lack of... That, that, that, there's no sense of control over when this may or may not happen-

    7. RA

      Mm

    8. RC

      ... it's very disempowering.

    9. RA

      Mm.

    10. RC

      Even the idea, and we'll get to this later, this idea, I've, I've always felt strongly that I have to be able to empower a patient in front of me in some way, that they feel they've got some degree of agency-

    11. RA

      Mm

    12. RC

      ... over what happens to them, because without that-

    13. RA

      Yeah

    14. RC

      ... it's really challenging.

    15. RA

      Yeah.

    16. RC

      So, so you get this in your early 20s, you know, the, I guess, prime of your life. You just qualified, you want to go out and actually learn the skills and, you know, make your way in the world.

    17. RA

      Mm.

    18. RC

      And something holds you back. You, you have atrial fibrillation, you have this irregular heartbeat. So you've seen the cardiologists. What happens? Well, you, you know, you obviously had some pills that you could take. If you have a go in atrial fibrillation, you can take the pill to help you. But, you know, what happened? Because there's a very powerful story here in terms of how you empowered yourself, made some changes-

    19. RA

      Mm

    20. RC

      ... I think advised by your mum. Uh, tell us a little bit about what happened, what the conventional medical profession advised that you do-

    21. RA

      Yeah

    22. RC

      ... and what you ended up doing.

    23. RA

      Yeah.

    24. RC

      And, you know, I think it tells a huge story as to where you are today.

  4. 7:25 – 12:58

    A mother’s challenge and a six-month experiment with diet and lifestyle

    1. RA

      Absolutely, yeah. And I think it's important to say from the outset, either, either path would've been perfectly acceptable.

    2. RC

      Yeah.

    3. RA

      You know, I've had some, some close friends of mine actually later on in their life experience similar things to me, and they've gone down the conventional medical path, and some with success, some, some not so. But at the time, I was offered, uh, something called an ablation, which is where you burn an area. It sounds a bit awful, but you, you isolate an area around the pulmonary vein where you have these misfiring cells that cause atrial fibrillation, this irregular pattern of beating. And as a 24-year-old with no pre-existing issues, with, uh, no weight problems, nothing, I was a really good candidate for this, and this was being sold to me by a number of different senior colleagues, you know, really esteemed people, some of the best cardiologists in the country, if not globally. And on the other hand [laughs] , I had my mum with no pre-existing medical qualifications. You know, very smart woman, uh, analytical, runs her own business, you know, investment banker, has done a whole bunch of things.

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. RA

      She was like, "You really need to look at your diet and lifestyle before you allow someone to burn a hole in your heart," which is the exact way she described what the procedure is. It's not as gory as, uh, as it is, uh, as she described it. And honestly, to appease her, I was, I was like, "Okay, fine. I'll, I'll take six months. I'll delay this procedure for six months." I got the blessing of my cardiologist and said, "Look, you're gonna need this procedure at some point. Take the medications in the meantime. If you want to do some weird, wonderful stuff with your diet, fine, but you're gonna need to come back at some point." And so I had nowhere to start really. I mean, my mum would suggest a few recipes and that kind of stuff, and luckily, uh, I had the ability to cook. My mum actually taught me how to cook-

    6. RC

      Yeah

    7. RA

      ... before I went to med school. She taught me a couple of recipes. One of them was a Thai lemongrass curry. So I, I got this, a- a new identity when I was at university that, oh, this guy can cook. He can make this, like, wonderful curry. And so to keep up this pretense, I would always learn new recipes and I would be that experimental person, uh, you know, in my, in my house share, and I loved it. I absolutely loved getting into cooking and stuff. So I applied that knowledge of flavor building to healthier ingredients, and it was a very simple thing at the start. You know, I would have cereal in the morning, I'd have a sandwich at lunch, and I would have pasta in the evenings. That was, like, my normal, quote-unquote, "diet." If you analyze that, you know, with a critical eye, it's a lot of refined sugars, there's lots of inflammatory fats in there. What I was having was most likely gonna be on the go, so it probably was impacting my digestive system. You compound that with all the other insults that I was likely having on my microbiota, on my sleep, on my stress levels, all these different things may have contributed to-

    8. RC

      Mm

    9. RA

      ... atrial fibrillation. It's still quite arguable. But to start off, I started really simply. Out went cereals in the morning. In came oats, and nuts and seeds, and leftovers from the night before. Very, very simple changes, and that catapulted into me bringing in Tupperware, and I got labeled Tupperware Boy by my consultant.

    10. RC

      So you'd, you'd cook foods-

    11. RA

      Yeah

    12. RC

      ... whole food, and bring it in.

    13. RA

      Absolutely. Yeah.

    14. RC

      Things like what? Do you remember?

    15. RA

      Yeah. Dark green leafy vegetables, bit of miso, some pumpkin seeds. It wasn't really recipes. It was like non-recipe recipes. It was just whatever I thought looked healthy and whatever I did a little bit of research and I was like, oh yeah, this is meant to be better for me. You know, we didn't have any nutrition training back then.

    16. RC

      So just from what you had picked up from society-

    17. RA

      Mm-hmm

    18. RC

      ... or your mum, or, I don't know, magazines.

    19. RA

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    20. RC

      Yeah? So-

    21. RA

      Essentially, yeah, yeah

    22. RC

      ... like, oh, I think this is healthy.

    23. RA

      Yeah.

    24. RC

      Healthier. Let me focus more on, on these sorts of foods.

    25. RA

      Absolutely. Yeah. I didn't have a grounding in nutritional medicine at that point in time to really give me the blueprint or the guiding principles behind what I should be eating. It was sort of a, a bit of intuition. How do I feel after I eat this?

    26. RC

      Yeah.

    27. RA

      You know, do I feel sluggish like I would having that pasta bake at the hospital, or should I add a little bit of greenery in there? Would I, you know, look at some recipes and try and add, like, a side to it? Yeah, absolutely. I would do sides of whatever, whatever was seasonal, some root vegetables. Uh, again, like, nuts and seeds, quality fats always kept on coming up for me 'cause it added crunch and texture and taste.

    28. RC

      So it's really interesting to me. You- your, your mum says, "Before you burn a hole in your heart, why don't you think about changing your diet and lifestyle?" Which actually is a very reasonable thing to say.

    29. RA

      Yeah. [laughs]

    30. RC

      Right? And, and, and actually, you can think about, well, as doctors, as a profession- Why do we not say things like that more often about a whole variety of different things? Look, we've got these medications and treatments. Before we go down that route-

  5. 12:58 – 20:42

    Tracking results: meditation, yoga, and the gradual disappearance of episodes

    1. RA

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, definitely becoming more intuitive about how I felt afterwards was something that my mum taught me how to do. She was like, "You know, just check in with yourself after you eat, and just see, you know, if that..." Sh- she was very, very vague about things. That was the thing. I was, you know, coming from a medical background, I was quite analytical. I wanted to see results, I wanted to see the impact of it. And, and that answers your second question, because I was really fastidious at tracking when I had episodes, what I'd done before that, what, uh, how long the episode was for, and how frequent said episodes were. So I had like a whole Notes file and all these different things. And after practicing some of these different dietary hacks, combined with some lifestyle ones as well, actually, because m- my mum actually taught me how to meditate when I was a teenager-

    2. RC

      Yeah

    3. RA

      ... before my GCSE exams. So I had the knowledge of meditation that I started to practice at the same time as all these dietary impacts as well, and all these dietary changes. And so that combined with everything, I think, is definitely part of the story. Definitely, you know, paved the way as to how I, I feel today and how I feel about lifestyle medicine in general. But what, what I started to notice was that the time in between different episodes started increasing. You know, instead of it being two to three times a week, it would go once a week.

    4. RC

      Between these heart episodes?

    5. RA

      Yeah. Be- between these episodes. That would last, you know, 12 hours, 36 hours or so.

    6. RC

      And you could draw a correlation. You could say, "Wait a minute, like this used to be three times a week."

    7. RA

      Yeah.

    8. RC

      Now it's only once a week. So it's not gone-

    9. RA

      Mm

    10. RC

      ... but it's getting better. Was that enough to keep you motivated?

    11. RA

      That was a moti- small motivating factor, but then again, I, I, I spoke to one of the cardiologists that I was seeing at the time and I said, "Look, I've noticed this pattern," and I didn't have the... I didn't actually have the confidence to tell that person-

    12. RC

      [laughs]

    13. RA

      ... about what I was making, what, what changes I was making myself actually.

    14. RC

      Yeah.

    15. RA

      And I remember saying to her, I said, "I'm noticing a pattern that it's, it's not as frequent." And they kind of brushed it off.

    16. RC

      [laughs]

    17. RA

      You know, they're like, "You know, you can go through a period of quintessence" I think they-

    18. RC

      Yeah

    19. RA

      ... they called it at the time, or, uh, uh-

    20. RC

      'Cause of course food and lifestyle have nothing to do with this

    21. RA

      ... Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

    22. RC

      [laughs]

    23. RA

      And, and to, to be fair to them, I hadn't told them-

    24. RC

      Yeah

    25. RA

      ... about the changes that I was making. But it was, you know, it wasn't like, "Oh, interesting, let's, let's monitor you for a little bit longer," or, "Maybe the medications are kicking in," or, "Maybe it's, you know, because of some of the other..." You know.

    26. RC

      We- were you taking medication during this time as well?

    27. RA

      Yeah, yeah.

    28. RC

      Or was that, was that, um, it was an as and when medication, like when you flip into atrial fibrillation, you take something? Or were you taking something to prevent it coming on?

    29. RA

      So initially I was on a beta blocker-

    30. RC

      Right

  6. 20:42 – 23:21

    Beyond ‘obesity and diabetes’: food as a foundation for resilience across conditions

    1. RC

      I think what's so powerful about that for me is that when we talk about food and its impact on our health, I think for many years the prevailing narrative in society and within our profession is, yeah, we can see a role with obesity and type 2 diabetes, right? Th- th- there's, there's kind of an, an obvious link there.

    2. RA

      Mm.

    3. RC

      But I don't think that link has been made for many years with other things-

    4. RA

      Mm

    5. RC

      ... whether it's how fast we age, depression, gut problems, libido, heart, electrical heart issues like atrial fibrillation.

    6. RA

      Mm, mm.

    7. RC

      Do you know what I mean? I think that really speaks to this healing power of food and that you change your diet and your lifestyle, and you no longer have atrial fibrillation.

    8. RA

      Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's that between how powerful diet can be for a collection of different issues-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. RA

      ... that has plagued our thinking around diet and lifestyle in general. Like you eloquently demonstrated on your show the impact of diet and lifestyle beyond the traditional-

    11. RC

      Yeah

    12. RA

      ... ways in which we, we view it, which is cardiovascular disease, reducing cholesterol, and obesity. Uh, no one's really gonna argue much with that. But when you're applying those same principles, which are very simple, to mood, to chronic pain, to cognitive disorders, brain fog, all these issues, y- you then see the links.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. RA

      That it's, it's all foundational. So what I was doing, in retrospect, was building the resilience for my body to look after itself, and that is something that I wanna try and instill as, in as much people as possible because I think the, the, the term food is medicine can be sometimes, uh, misinterpreted as food as the pharmaceutical, food as a pi- as the... One of the things I wrote about in my first book actually, food is not a pill. It's not a symptom killer. It's a way in which you can build a more resilient body and mind-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. RA

      ... such that it can take care of itself. And it sounds a bit out there, but that's generally what I believe and what I can see from-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. RA

      ... the research.

    19. RC

      With all the training in nutritional medicine you've done since then-

    20. RA

      Mm

    21. RC

      ... all the studying you've done, the three best-selling books, the podcast, you know, the, the new app, which we're gonna talk about, you've gone deep into the weeds of the science of nutrition and how it can help.

    22. RA

      Mm.

  7. 23:21 – 31:13

    What might have changed? Microbiota, inflammation pathways, and nutrient density

    1. RC

      If you reflect back now, what do you think was going on, right? What was going on that you were having heart problems, scary heart problems, right, at such a young age? What do you think changing your diet and lifestyle actually did? Have you thought about that?

    2. RA

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      Have you got some ideas?

    4. RA

      I've thought about it a lot, and it's really hard to pinpoint just one thing, and I d- I don't think it is one thing.

    5. RC

      Yeah. And we don't need to.

    6. RA

      Exactly.

    7. RC

      That's the model we get.

    8. RA

      Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

    9. RC

      It's not what, what thing was it?

    10. RA

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      Well, maybe it's a combination of everything.

    12. RA

      [laughs] Yeah. And this is the thing that dogs nutritional medicine in general because we can't envisage a world where we can test multiple factors simultaneously. We can only really think about that randomized control trial model where you add an intervention, whether it be- ... a supplement or a pharmaceutical to someone's regime, and then we observe an impact, and we control-

    13. RC

      Mm

    14. RA

      ... using placebo, and we, you know, take time to make sure-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. RA

      ... we've got the right cohort, et cetera, et cetera. In my N of one case, it's likely gonna be a m- bunch of different things. So we can look at the microbiota, for example, the population of microbes that live in and around us all over our body, largely concentrated in the large intestine, foundational to our health, inseparable from wellbeing. We know now about what it can do to improve the lining of the gut, improving the functioning of our natural immune system, how it impacts with our mood, how it impacts on inflammation pathways, how it balances sugar. What I was doing by changing my diet very broadly, without going into specifics, from a pretty processed diet, if, if I look back on it and actually look at it with m- more of a critical eye, to something that was more whole food, and it doesn't need to be, like, raw food. It didn't ... It wasn't anywhere near as well as I eat today even-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. RA

      ... actually.

    19. RC

      It was just better than the norm.

    20. RA

      It was just better than the norm, exactly. That had a dramatic impact, as we can see now from-

    21. RC

      Yeah

    22. RA

      ... research, on improving the functioning of those microbes. That include bacteria, fungi, viruses, nematodes-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. RA

      ... a whole selection of different microbes that we're learning a lot more about even today. And that shift can happen very quickly. I know in my case it, you know, took quite a, a while before I, I observed quite, quite an impressive, uh, reversal of my condition. But even in some studies as short as a few days, you can drastically change the population of your microbes. So me consistently eating well-

    25. RC

      Yeah

    26. RA

      ... and changing it from processed to unprocessed would have definitely had an impact on multiple levels.

    27. RC

      So the gut microbiome is one thing that now with all the knowledge you've got reflecting back, it's like, well, I, I had more whole foods, less refined processed foods, so my gut health improves. And as my gut health improves, that can help a whole variety of different things in my body.

    28. RA

      Mm.

    29. RC

      Any other theories?

    30. RA

      Absolutely. So by having a lot more greens in my diet, just general greens-

  8. 31:13 – 42:52

    ‘Food is medicine’—why the phrase divides people and how to make it nuanced

    1. RC

      movement, uh, or, or that, that... I didn't really under- I didn't really know much about that people were questioning that. But many of my followers have brought certain things to my attention, say, "Hey, look, what do you think about this term?" You know, a lot of people are saying we shouldn't be using it. You've been in the public eye for a number of years now promoting, you know, with your own story, but also with your cookbooks and all your amazing content on social media. You're helping people understand just how powerful food can be. Do you consider it to be medicine?

    2. RA

      I definitely do. And the reason why is because when I think about all the different things that I do as a clinician and what constitutes medicine, it would be naive of me to belittle medicine as the prescription of pills-

    3. RC

      [laughs]

    4. RA

      ... and the practice of interventions like surgery or minor ops-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. RA

      ... or even the application of psychotherapies, as that's medicine. By, by us having a conversation, or by you having a conversation with someone, or someone listening to this, it is medicinal in lots of ways.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. RA

      Absolutely. By me showing empathy to someone, by me describing how they can improve their sleep, that's a... This is medicine-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. RA

      ... in, in its absolute form, in its purest form. But to drill down on why I think people have an issue with the term, I can understand that. I, I definitely recognize the controversy around the term food is, food as, food and medicine. I get that.

    11. RC

      Can, can you explain it? 'Cause to me, it's very clear that food is medicine.

    12. RA

      Yeah.

    13. RC

      It doesn't mean other things are not medicine.

    14. RA

      Yeah.

    15. RC

      It's like there's lots of things, as you say, exercise, sleep is medicine, uh, love is medicine. Listening-

    16. RA

      Mm

    17. RC

      ... carefully and attentively to your patients is medicine.

    18. RA

      Mm-hmm.

    19. RC

      Right? That's how I view it. So what, what, what do you think... Yeah, so explain what, where, where you think that, um, there's validity to it potentially not being medicine.

    20. RA

      Well, I think when people inappropriately try to suggest that food should be a replacement for all the other elements of medicine that we have at our disposal-

    21. RC

      Right

    22. RA

      ... all the pharmaceuticals, all the psychotherapy interventions, all the other aspects of what we just described as medicine-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. RA

      ... I think that's where it becomes problematic, where it becomes food is an exclusive medicine.

    25. RC

      Got it.

    26. RA

      This is what we should be focusing on and nothing else. That is just-

    27. RC

      But does, does... I, I've not really seen that much, though. Does anyone-

    28. RA

      I haven't s-

    29. RC

      Does anyone promote that? Like, I-

    30. RA

      I, I mean, I, I personally haven't seen that, but I've certainly-

  9. 42:52 – 54:51

    System change and clinician reality: why lifestyle conversations don’t scale in current practice

    1. RC

      to me that even now I would say in 2022 with, you know, loads of people around the world are trying to elevate the conversation about food as medicine. Mm. You're one of the most prominent voices, I'd say, in the UK who's doing this, which is fantastic. Um, a- and globally, having said that, you know, I think your message is, is, is going everywhere. But even now it's still very much, okay, as I said, type 2 diabetes and obesity, you know, we've been talking about things like the SMILES trial and depression and mood for years. There's this, you know, emerging field in nutritional psychiatry. Um, we're understanding, you know, that there are more conditions. Mm. But I still don't think a heart beat irregularity, I don't think that is common knowledge that actually, well, what if? Mm. And so for me, the wider question is, what's it gonna take for a 24-year-old who's now gets atrial fibrillation for the first time, is scared, is worried, goes to see their doctor? Of course, some things are gonna need treatment quickly depending on the condition. Absolutely. I, I totally understand that. We both respect the field of cardiology. But in cases that are non-urgent, that potentially can wait, how far do you think we've got in terms of people saying, "Hey, listen, before we..." So to borrow from your mum- Mm ... before we burn a hole in your heart [laughs] . Um- I love the way she put that. I know. [laughs] Just blunt and to the point. I mean, she was really trying to get me to change my diet [laughs] lifestyle so clearly. So she's, she's taken a few softly, softly approach as, "Hey, have you... You know, I heard this about yoga." But when it came to someone st- [laughs] ... you know, burning something in her, in her baby boy's, uh, heart- Yeah, yeah ... she, she took a rather more- She, she [laughs] ... more blunt approach. Pretty blunt. Say, "Hey, come on." Yeah. But, but I guess you see the point where I'm going with this. Mm, yeah. It's like, are we moving on, do you think? Are people having these conversations more? Is a cardiologist listening to this now and go, "Wait a minute, I didn't know that. Rupy's story's really powerful. Maybe that patient who I've got on my cardioversion list for next week, maybe I should just go, 'Hey, listen, should we just, should we just pause two or three months? Let me ask you that convers- Mm ... let me ask you the question about your diet and lifestyle.'" You know? Mm. Are we making progress? Yeah. Uh, I would like to say that we are, but it's really hard to state that with any degree of certainty, 'cause I, I, I, I think we all live in our little bubbles, right? Yeah. [laughs] And so, you know, some people in my close personal, personal network, they get it. They, they see what I've done. They have seen some impacts on their patients. I've inspired them to do a bit more- Yeah ... reading. Perhaps they've read some of the references in, in the books that I've written, and they've done some of their own primary digging, and they've found, you know what? Having these conversations with their patients has been really pivotal. Yeah. My skeptical side is saying, [lips smack] I don't think we're at a point now where we can reasonably expect people who have been in the established medical system for over two, sometimes three, four decades, to suddenly have a realization after listening to this conversation or maybe multiple conversations about this topic before they enact change in themselves. Because coming f- from it very honestly, I was battling for the establishment against my mum in a lot of ways as well. You know, I was like, "Mum, you have no idea what you're talking about." The conversations that I had with her, which I'm really embarrassed to talk about now, but, you know, I've spoken to this senior doctor, I've spoken to this colleague of mine. This guy's a registrar, he's seen so many people. You have no idea what you're talking about. You have no evidence. You have none of these different studies to back you up what you're saying. I need to have this. This is my life in the balance right now. And I think the reasonable suggestion of someone who is having a non-urgent intervention, who has the time to explore other areas, that's definitely something I'd wanna see in the future, but are we there now? I don't think so. Will we get there in the future with the stuff that you're doing with prescribing lifestyle medicine, with what coloring medicine is doing in the US, and hopefully what we're doing in the UK as well? Yeah. With all the prescribing, uh, practices, including social, including exercise, including sleep. Elevating the conversation- Yeah ... amongst people that we haven't even had any interaction with, let's say. I think, yeah, we'll get there at some point in the future, but today I, I, I think unfortunately, Rangan, uh, we're still a bit fringe. Yeah. I don't know if you agree with that. What, what do you think? I, I, I'm an optimist, right? [laughs] Um, I, I mean, are we there yet? No, definitely not. Is it better than it was when you were 24? Mm. I think so. Is it better than it was five years ago? Yeah. I, I think it's getting better. Is it, is it too slow for some people? And there'll be many patients listening to this or watching this on YouTube right now who will be, you know, stamping their feet on the ground, "It's not going fast enough." You know, I went to see my doctor last week, and they said food has got nothing to do with my condition, and there's no point changing my diet, 'cause it's not... You know, you, you, you, you always hear this. I'm sure you get the same DMs or- Mm ... similar ones that I get- Absolutely ... right? But I do think it's changing, and my evidence, I guess, for that is the course that a mutual friend of ours, Ayan Panja, and, and myself co-created with Mike Ash. This course, Prescribing Lifestyle Medicine, I think we've trained over maybe 3,000 healthcare professionals around the world now, and the feedback, very much like in your course, has been phenomenal.

    2. RA

      Mm.

    3. RC

      People are saying... I think the last study, the last survey we did, I think 95% of people who have done it say it significantly changed the way they practice. And it's not just GPs who've done this course. There's consultant cardiologists, psychiatrists, gastroenterologists. We- we've broadened it out now, so, you know, nurses, uh, pharmacists, physios, you know. So, the... And that's accredited by the Royal College of GPs.

    4. RA

      Mm.

    5. RC

      Right? So the fact that it's got the stamp of official approval from the establishment-

    6. RA

      Mm

    7. RC

      ... that wasn't happening 10 years ago. Do you know what I mean?

    8. RA

      Yeah, yeah.

    9. RC

      You know, you- you bringing over culinary medicine to the UK, that didn't happen 10 years ago.

    10. RA

      Mm.

    11. RC

      It's hard to change.

    12. RA

      Yeah.

    13. RC

      So if you know how to do your job and manage your workload doing it a certain way, I don't know, it- it- it takes something like a personal issue.

    14. RA

      Yeah.

    15. RC

      You know, you had a personal issue which changed what you, what you thought, and now hugely influences what you do, and you help so many people around the world now with what you do.

    16. RA

      Mm.

    17. RC

      You know, I've had personal issues, m- you know, namely with my son when he was six months old. So I think without that, it's really hard, because you're fighting against the system, and it's easier to practice... Here's the truth, mate.

    18. RA

      Mm.

    19. RC

      It's easier to practice in the current system-

    20. RA

      Oh, absolutely

    21. RC

      ... and not talk about nutrition and lifestyle. It's easier to make the diagnosis, give the drug. You run on time.

    22. RA

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      Do you know what I mean?

    24. RA

      Yeah.

    25. RC

      That's, that's the uncomfortable truth, I think.

    26. RA

      Uh, y- you've really hit the nail on the head there, and it is really uncomfortable, because I don't wanna... I don't want people listening to this to think that we're suggesting that anyone is lazy, or they don't want-

    27. RC

      No

    28. RA

      ... to help. But when your back is up against the wall-

    29. RC

      Yeah

    30. RA

      ... and you're battling through tens of patients in your morning session, and then you've gotta do your phone calls and your prescriptions, it's easier to have the CKS guidelines, clinical knowledge summaries on your computer, the algorithms that all the CCGs will have, your list of medications, and just look at the symptoms-

  10. 54:51 – 1:13:03

    What it means to be a doctor now: identity, impact, and stepping away from the frontline

    1. RC

      ... and the desire to help people, right? So, um, my question for you, especially given what you're currently doing, perhaps you could tell that story, but also start off by saying, well, what does it mean to you to be a medical doctor in 2022?

    2. RA

      Yeah, yeah. That's a really powerful question and something that I've been thinking about quite a bit, actually. I must admit, that is my favorite book as well. [laughs]

    3. RC

      [laughs]

    4. RA

      The reason why is because what I invited the reader to do, and, and like, you know, no one needs to buy the book. I mean, I put all the information out on free podcasts and all the rest of it. But the, the, the chapters are such that we're... I zoom into different topics, right?

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. RA

      I zoom into skin, brain, eye health, even cancer, the uncomfortable topic of mental wellbeing. And I zoom into how nutritional medicine intersects with that particular specialty. And I drill down on some of the studies that we have available to us now, looking at what was studied, what diets, what dietary patterns, what ingredients. And then I come up with a list of suggestions at the end of each chapter that people should think about through the lens of whatever that particular health goal is around, so m- m- brain health or eye health or whatever. In the final chapter, I basically invite the reader to zoom out. And when I invite the reader to zoom out and I say, "Look, these are all the foods that I suggested and these are all the lifestyle practices I suggested," it's all the same.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. RA

      Because what I'm doing is basically allowing you to see and, and read how all m- nutritional medicine is about is optimizing your physiology such that your body knows how to look after itself. So going, looping back to what I was talking about with me earlier, this is what we do with nutritional medicine. There's no... It's not like a food for every symptom. It's not a specific-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. RA

      ... thing that you need to change in your, in your diet to have this desired outcome. It is really about leveling up and improving your physiology such that you can engage in those innate mechanisms that know how to prevent disease in the first place. To answer your question about what a doctor is in 2022, uh, w- we've chatted about this I think about a year ago, 'cause I was, I was really struggling. And I think it comes down to identity and what other people perceive me to be if I call myself a doctor. So in my mind, a year ago, a doctor was someone who goes to clinic, goes to A&E, you know, engages with patients, writes prescriptions, have those meaningful conversations, instills lifestyle changes, instills nutritional changes, all the things that I love doing day in, day out. But that's changed a lot for me as I've seen the potential for what I can do through other means-

    11. RC

      Mm-hmm

    12. RA

      ... whether it be books, whether it be podcasts, whether it be the new app that's going out. How can I actually help people better themselves? And it goes back to what we were talking about. I don't think we actually need more doctors and more staff. I think we need more empowerment of patients. And is me going to clinic every single day and seeing 40, sometimes 50 patients in a 24-hour period gonna move the needle as much as I can if I engage more in all these other activities that I've, I've been blessed to sort of have and all these different, uh, pathways I've, I've got now? And I, I did a bit of reading and looking into the data around, uh, the number of staff that we have in the NHS and, and comparing it to other healthcare systems. So right now, we have around 2.8 doctors per capita, per thousand i- in, in the UK. That's not bad in terms of an average. If you look at Europe, it's around three. And the, the best country, I think, in the world is Qatar, it's around seven, seven per 1,000.

    13. RC

      Wow.

    14. RA

      So it's, it's a, it's a big difference there. The difference in health outcomes actually is not that big. In fact, the UK is num- number 10 in the world if you look at a certain, uh, rating system.

    15. RC

      Okay.

    16. RA

      You also look at spend per capita. We're, again, pretty high up. And, and if you track population growth over the last 60 years with the number of doctors and the number of nurses going into the profession, we're outpacing population growth. So we're actually getting more and more doctors per capita, a- as should be the case-

    17. RC

      Mm

    18. RA

      ... as we invest in healthcare systems. But fundamentally, what we're missing is that we're treating a different collection of diseases-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. RA

      ... than we were 60 years ago. And I know you know a lot about this. It's less of the infective conditions and it's more of those other conditions that come out of, quite frankly, uh, the environment in which we've created for comfort. You know, we're inside all the time. We don't go out as much. We don't exercise much. We're exposed to a lot of things in our environment in terms of toxins, in terms of the foods, et cetera, et cetera.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. RA

      Everyone knows this kind of stuff. And so really to tackle that, we need to really change the way we, we practice medicine. And so me being a doctor in 2022 doesn't necessarily mean I should be on the front line battling day in, day out.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. RA

      Because I think that, uh, and, and for all... I have the utmost respect for anyone doing this day in, day out.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. RA

      It's a tough, tough job. But I've actually taken the decision to take a prolonged sabbatical over the next 12 months where I explore this very question and figure out how I can actually have the biggest impact, the most meaningful impact-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. RA

      ... on the most amount of people. It's a collection of education, teaching, inspiration, and also digital, where I can actually scale some of the teachings that I put into books and actually Try and spread that far and wide such that we can actually create a population of proactive, empowered people where we don't need to treat them in-

    29. RC

      Yeah

    30. RA

      ... emergency rooms.

  11. 1:13:03 – 1:18:57

    Family expectations and compassion: reframing conflict through perspective-taking

    1. RA

      Absolutely. You're probably further along on your journey. You've, you've clearly thought about this quite a bit, and I think y- it sits with you a lot better. I'm probably better than I was, but I'm still on that journey myself, because I have these sweet conversations with my dad all the time, and, you know, bless him, he doesn't fully understand the impact of what a popular podcast can, can deliver. And the questions I get are like, "So were you in the hospital this week or..." [laughs] It's a lot of that. And like, you know, for as much as I feel that we're having impact, sometimes it's those little things that kind of dig at that I'm like, "Am I doing the right thing?" And I think, again, over time I'll firm up that decision in myself, but it's a process for a, a lot of people, myself included.

    2. RC

      When your dad says that to you, how do you honestly feel?

    3. RA

      Uh, annoyed. I do get a little bit... In my, in my head I'm like, "Ah, he just doesn't get it. Like, he d- doesn't understand." And it's like, it's pushing a stone up, up a, up a hill sometimes. It's I'm trying to get him to understand, so it will help me along my own journey, if I'm being honest. Yeah.

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. RA

      It's-

    6. RC

      C- can I offer a phrase which for me has literally transformed the quality of my day-to-day life? Something I've, I've read about in many ways in many books over years, but it was really brought home to me in a conversation I had with Peter Crone on this podcast, I don't know, a couple of years ago. And the, and the phrase is, "If I was the other person, I'd be acting in exactly the same way as them."

    7. RA

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    8. RC

      Right? And, and essentially that phrase is, "If I was..." Uh, the, the meaning really is, if I was that person with their upbringing-

    9. RA

      Mm-hmm

    10. RC

      ... with their view of the world, with their bullying experiences as a child, with their parents, with the toxic first job they had, right? If I was them-

    11. RA

      Mm-hmm

    12. RC

      ... and had had their worldview and life experiences, I would think and say the same thing as them.

    13. RA

      Absolutely.

    14. RC

      And that honestly is something, whenever I struggle with the actions of someone else or thinking, "Oh, if they did something different, I'd feel different," which is very disempowering. Because ultimately, effectively what we are saying then is, "Oh, if my dad could only change, you would be-"

    15. RA

      Yeah

    16. RC

      ... happier and calmer.

    17. RA

      Yeah.

    18. RC

      Which means you're putting your inner contentment and happiness in the hands of someone else who you can't control.

    19. RA

      Absolutely. Yeah.

    20. RC

      So I would contend that maybe your dad loves you, and in his eyes maybe, I don't know, medicine is a secure job. You know, Rupy's worked hard, you know. What's, what's he doing all this social media podcast stuff?

    21. RA

      [laughs]

    22. RC

      Like, you know, get a respectable job, you know, get married, settle. You know?

    23. RA

      Yeah. Yeah.

    24. RC

      Like, c- could you... Do you... Would you... I mean, if you're happy to go there, would you say that this is probably coming from a place of love?

    25. RA

      Absolutely. Absolutely. And the way you've articulated that, and I've heard you say that before actually, and I'm glad you reiterated it when I was telling that story, 'cause it's made me think about it in a lot clearer, in, in, in a much clearer way. If I was to unpack it a bit more, my dad grew up in Punjab, grew up on a farm. You know, he was, uh... He went to, he went to a really good university because his, his dad made lots of sacrifices such that he could go to that university. And the ultimate sacrifice being he allowed his son to go and travel abroad to the UK, where he started his own thing.

    26. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RA

      He worked in, you know, bakeries and bed factories and any job he can get his hands on, until him and my mom mustered enough capital together to start a business. And again, all the risks, all the seven-day-

    28. RC

      Yeah

    29. RA

      ... weeks, all that insecurity to build up to a point where he can afford to send his son-

    30. RC

      [laughs]

  12. 1:18:57 – 1:27:12

    Weekly ‘happiness habits’ and end-of-life priorities: aligning daily life with long-term values

    1. RC

      ... well, do, but be- before we get to the app, 'cause I really wanna understand the app, 'cause I think it's incredible what you're trying to do with it. Are you up for trying a quick exercise?

    2. RA

      Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it, man.

    3. RC

      Yeah. So it's- It, it's, it's a two-part exercise

    4. RA

      Okay

    5. RC

      And I think it relates to what we've just been talking about, about, you know, life, what, what we want from our life-

    6. RA

      Mm

    7. RC

      ... not necessarily what other people want.

    8. RA

      Mm.

    9. RC

      Right? So if I was to ask you, what are three things you could do this week, and you think you could do them regularly each week, that would make you happy?

    10. RA

      Mm.

    11. RC

      What are they?

    12. RA

      So definitely investing time and spending with my parents, for sure. Absolutely.

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. RA

      With, with family. Um, I really value time with my friends as well, whether that's over a dinner I've cooked them or even a walk in the park.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. RA

      I lo- Like, those are pivotal moments in my week that I really wanna try and get in every single week. And work to serve as many people as I can, through really deep, good work, whether that be through podcasts, copywriting, newsletter, app creation, uh, the recipes and all that kind of content that I do for the digital platform. That I, I-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. RA

      ... honestly gives me so much, so much joy.

    19. RC

      A- and the three things there, they're quite clear demarcations. You know, friends and family-

    20. RA

      Mm

    21. RC

      ... being really, you know, nurturing relationships, important one.

    22. RA

      I should probably say my fiancée as well. [laughs]

    23. RC

      Yeah, so that, I, I [laughs]

    24. RA

      That was intended. [laughs]

    25. RC

      But that comes under nurturing relationships-

    26. RA

      Yeah

    27. RC

      ... right? And then obviously something about work. What, um, how good are you at doing that, those, nurturing those relationships each week?

    28. RA

      I, I think I'm good. I've definitely got a lot better, and the reason why I've got a lot better is actually because of [laughs] my fiancée. I'm not just saying that. G- I, I, I think I've got a strand of, uh, overworking from my, from my dad. I think w- you know, immigrant parents, we're, we've all got that-

    29. RC

      I know the feeling

    30. RA

      ... sort of strand in us. Exactly. You know, I've seen, I've seen how hard he worked when I was a kid, both my parents. Um, and that element of me has led to some sacrifices over the last five, six years, where, you know, I'm not essentially practicing what I'm essentially preaching. And Rochelle has really kept me on the straight and narrow in that respect, actually.

  13. 1:27:12 – 1:37:45

    The Doctor’s Kitchen app: making healthy eating easier through filters, simplicity, and future integrations

    1. RC

      Where does this new app fit into that grand vision?

    2. RA

      In, in many ways. I just wanna say that that, that exercise really did click well for me. [laughs] I'm still sort of, like, reeling from how much more clarity I have actually, particularly the last thing you said about how people wished that they didn't live the life that other people wanted them to live or lived through the lens of other-

    3. RC

      Yeah

    4. RA

      ... people's opinions. And I think why I even started the app, I mean, who am I? I'm not a tech entrepreneur. I've got no reason to be in this sort of game and starting the... I mean, the audacity of starting a tech company from scratch is, is pretty incredible. But yet I did it because, and I'm doing it, because that- that's r- it really aligns with what I want to do. It really aligns with where I feel that I can take The Doctor's Kitchen to the next level. So to answer your question, the app is a very simple digital platform where I create recipes. We have a health goal filter where myself and the nutrition team have gone through all the nutrition papers and pulled out the dietary patterns and ingredients that align with specific health goals. We've got five health goals at the moment, and we're gonna build more. They are brain health, mental wellbeing, inflammation, cardiovascular health, general wellbeing. And it allows people to choose recipes based on those health goals and the other dietary filters. So it makes it a lot easier to know what you should be eating, and also to eat well consistently everywhere. Because everyone wants to think that it's about the specific nutrients. You need to get these specific amounts. And I get that. Supplementation and targeted personalized nutrition is definitely the way forward. But in a lot of cases, the simple thing is consistently eating well. So the app is designed to make eating well every day as simple as possible. What we have right now is our MVP. We're essentially just-

    5. RC

      What, what does that mean?

    6. RA

      A minimal viable product. A very, very simple library of recipes that you can filter according to those means. And-

    7. RC

      So hold on. You can, you can go on and let's say, right, let's say I struggle with eating well, and I'm like, "You know, I want some help. You know, Rupy's said that he can make it easier for me."

    8. RA

      Yeah.

    9. RC

      Okay, great. So I go on and go, "Yeah, like, I wanna focus on brain health, please, and I don't like these two foods, and I have an allergy to this one food." What, I can put all that in?

    10. RA

      You can put all that in.

    11. RC

      And then what does the app spit out for me?

    12. RA

      So you get a personalized for me section where you can choose from a selection of all those recipes that fit that criteria.

    13. RC

      So, so recipes.

    14. RA

      Yeah.

    15. RC

      So I then get recipes. But I guess in a book, for example, you've got loads of great recipes, right?

    16. RA

      Yeah.

    17. RC

      But I have to choose. I have to go through it and go, "Well, what's this one for?"

    18. RA

      Mm.

    19. RC

      "Oh, does it have any ingredients in that... Oh, I didn't... Oh, it does, it has something in that I don't like."

    20. RA

      Yeah.

    21. RC

      "Or I'm allergic to that ingredient."

    22. RA

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      "Oh, I need to send Rupy a DM-"

    24. RA

      [laughs]

    25. RC

      "... and go, what else can I put in?"

    26. RA

      Yeah.

    27. RC

      Is the app basically just taking all that out and go, you just put it straight in there and it will spit out the right recipes for you?

    28. RA

      Absolutely. Yeah.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. RA

      So that's, that's certainly the aim of what we wanna do. And at the moment, you can, you can use alternatives. We put alternatives for the re- for the different ingredients. And we also allow you to filter according to intolerances and allergies that you might have, as well as the health goal filter that you-

  14. 1:37:45 – 1:51:49

    Trackers, digital responsibility, and why food content is uniquely triggering online

    1. RC

      It, it's, it's pretty exciting hearing this. You know, I'm, I'm not that techy in terms of my natural interests, so it's very inspiring for me to hear that. It's interesting what you said about an Oura Ring, 'cause I see you've got one on. I mean, what are your views on trackers, incidentally?

    2. RA

      So I think it really depends on the person, right?

    3. RC

      Yeah, me too, mate.

    4. RA

      So I'm the kind of person that can look at my Oura Ring data in the morning, and I can make a reasonable judgment about how I should exercise, what things I need to be looking out for in terms of my cravings, in terms of what kind of food would make me sleep better the next day, and make a reasonable, uh, solid decision about my day. And, and, and I'll forget about it until I check it the next morning. Another person-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. RA

      ... would become super anxious about the fact that their Oura Ring scoring or whatever-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. RA

      ... tracking device you use is less than 80%, and that's gonna derail them psychologically for the rest of the day, and actually create health anxiety around it.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. RA

      It's kind of one of the reasons why I've taken to on social media asking people to really establish whether they should even be following me. Because I, I realize that we have like, um, a microphone.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. RA

      And we can't filter who listens via that microphone-

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. RA

      ... on the other end. People really need to take that decision themselves, and be intentional about where they get information and whether that information is serving them.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. RA

      So going back to our conversation about food as medicine, for some people that's, like, kind of triggering, and I, I, they have their reasons. I, I get that. I, I disagree, but they have those reasons. For the same, the same reasons, me always talking about healthy eating, increasing vegetable consumption-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. RA

      ... looking out for fiber, looking after your microbes, for some people, that's not, that's a net negative.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. RA

      And therein lies the decision for that person to either unfollow me, disengage with my information, or perhaps choose someone else that better serves their needs.

    21. RC

      Yes. Mate, I think that's such an important point, and it is... You know, I think personal responsibility as an idea gets hijacked a lot. You know, I, I think when it comes to food, of course I'm for empowering people like you, but I think we both, I think we touched on it the first time you came on, we both recognize poverty plays-

    22. RA

      Mm

    23. RC

      ... a huge role in what people have access to. Um, we, we understand that actually some people wanna make good decisions, but where they live, the food landscape around them-

    24. RA

      Mm

    25. RC

      ... is very, very challenging.

    26. RA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RC

      I know we definitely spoke about that, even though it was over four and a half years ago-

    28. RA

      Yeah

    29. RC

      ... when you were on the show the first time.

    30. RA

      'Cause I remember you telling me the story about how when you were walking around your general practice-

  15. 1:51:49 – 1:54:44

    Practical next steps: choosing a starting point, newsletters, and small habit stacking

    1. RC

      Please consider this an open invitation to come up anytime, and we'll talk more. Uh, I'm excited to see how your journey goes. Uh, one thing we've not spoken about is berries and coffee and green-

    2. RA

      [laughs]

    3. RC

      And all the, and all the benefits of these things, which I thought we might do. They're all in your books.

    4. RA

      Yeah. [laughs]

    5. RC

      Right? So, a- and in the app.

    6. RA

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      So people can... If you were to point someone, you've got three books out there.

    8. RA

      Yeah.

    9. RC

      Um, if someone's inspired and goes, "Hey, you know, Rupy, look, I, I kind of struggle. I know food's important-

    10. RA

      Mm

    11. RC

      ... but I don't know how to cook. Like, I'm a bit scared of it. I didn't get taught by my parents."

    12. RA

      Mm.

    13. RC

      "I wasn't taught at school." Um, which of your three books would you direct people to?

    14. RA

      I think the last one, 3,2,1.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. RA

      Definitely. It's my most practical book. It's three portions of vegetables, two servings, one pan, double the ingredients if you want to serve four.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. RA

      It's a really easy methodology and process of cooking that I employ myself whenever I'm time-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. RA

      ... poor, which w- a lot of us are these days. It minimizes washing up, and it increases the amount of fruit and vegetables that we consume on a daily basis. And looking at all the research, that's the one thing that I think that we should be looking at through the lens of nutritional medicine. Obviously, there are all the other facets of, of lifestyle that we also need to concentrate on, but I think 3,2,1 is probably my most practical book. But, you know, share recipes every week on the newsletter. There's plenty on the website. We do a load of research for-

    21. RC

      How, how do they get your newsletter?

    22. RA

      On thedoctorskitchen.com-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. RA

      ... forward slash newsletter.

    25. RC

      Okay.

    26. RA

      Yeah. [laughs]

    27. RC

      Cool. Yeah.

    28. RA

      Yeah.

    29. RC

      'Cause you do, you share recipes, and so-

    30. RA

      Every single week we share recipes, and we also share something to listen, read, or watch that will inspire them every week, and the feedback for that has been, been wonderful. And I, it's generally me sharing what I've done that week-

Episode duration: 1:54:44

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