Skip to content

By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

What Happens After 30 Days of COLD SHOWERS? - This Will SHOCK YOU! | Dr. Susanna Søberg

Watch my first cold water immersion experience with a step-by-step guide. Cold showers, icy plunge pools, outdoor swimming – are you a fan, or does the very idea make you shiver?

Dr. Susanna SøbergguestDr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Jan 4, 20232h 11mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.

uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.

See how

Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 7:02

    Why Cold Exposure Offers So Many Benefits

    1. SS

      We are overwhelmed. Our stress, depression epidemic is just increasing, so we need to change something. This is preventing lifestyle diseases. This is preventing depression. This is preventing pain. [upbeat music]

    2. RC

      I've been looking forward to talking to you for many months now. And I think over the past few years, there's been a growing awareness of the benefits of deliberately exposing ourselves to the cold.

    3. SS

      Yeah.

    4. RC

      There's been lots of anecdotes. I think Wim Hof has absolutely popularized this across the world.

    5. SS

      Mm.

    6. RC

      What I find interesting with you, though, Susanna, is that you've actually gone and conducted some proper scientific research to actually help us identify what is really going on when we expose ourselves to the cold. So right at the top, given how reluctant many people are to expose themselves to anything cold these days, can you make the case as to why people should do it?

    7. SS

      Yeah, there are so many reasons why people should do it. [laughs] So there is so much going on in the body when you go into the cold. Um, so there's definitely physiological reasons why people should do this, because it can actually, uh, benefit your health right away. There's, like, this acute response that you will benefit from-

    8. RC

      Yeah

    9. SS

      ... but also on the long term. So this could actually, uh, prevent lifestyle diseases. And also on a mental, uh, state, you can say that you can use this as a way of increasing your stress threshold, actually-

    10. RC

      Yeah

    11. SS

      ... and getting more confident, actually. That is one of the things that I discovered, uh, later on and not from the beginning. So I started my research in looking into what happens in the body, and since then, I would just work my way around what else is going on.

    12. RC

      Yeah. I think you've, you've really touched on a few important things there for me. Like, when I think about the cold and why I, why my patients, why the general public should consider, you know, intentionally exposing themselves to that cold, I kind of put these benefits into three different categories. The physical benefits, so things like your metabolism, potential benefits with weight loss, type 2 diabetes, you know, the immune system, things like brown fat, which we're gonna talk about-

    13. SS

      Yeah

    14. RC

      ... joint pain, all, all these things.

    15. SS

      Yeah.

    16. RC

      Then I think about our mental health and wellbeing.

    17. SS

      Yeah, exactly.

    18. RC

      So our resilience, mood-

    19. SS

      Yeah

    20. RC

      ... anxiety, depression. And then I think about athletics, and I think about recovery and endurance. So it's quite incredible that one modality-

    21. SS

      One thing

    22. RC

      ... cold exposure-

    23. SS

      Yeah

    24. RC

      ... can potentially have so many different benefits, right?

    25. SS

      Yeah. Yeah, and you need to think about why is actually this one thing, why is it that it can do so many good things? Why is it that we cannot get a pill to do exactly all those things? It can- it cannot happen. We, we don't have that. But you can go in- into the cold, and you can use it in very much, very different ways. So if you have pain, you can go into the cold, and you will have less pain, and that will last for the day at least. And if you are in a bad mood, you can go into the cold as well, and you will feel much better. It's just, you can use it in so many different ways. You can use it for c- recovery, as you just said. And I think that it's very difficult to find something else that is that great, that can do so many good things. You can have so many reasons to go, and there is always something that the cold can repair for you in your body. So it seems like, when I started my research, I was pretty much looking into the brown fat, which you just mentioned, but when I met people out there swimming around, and I asked them, "Why do you use the cold?" And every time I got a, a different answer, and every one of them seemed to have, like, one problem with this or one problem with that and helped in different ways. So it seems like maybe from an e- evolutionary point of view that this is something that we involved in, of course, but it's also something that we as human being need to, like, reset our body in every way. So it's like going into the cold, that readjusted just everything in our, in our system, our mood, our physiology. So if you have pain, that will go away. So it just seems like it's gonna do everything good for us, no matter what kind of pain or what kind of issues that we have.

    26. RC

      Yeah. You say pain there.

    27. SS

      Yeah.

    28. RC

      And I, and I... When I hear the term pain now, I think of physical pain and emotional pain.

    29. SS

      Mm.

    30. RC

      And it's something I've been thinking about for a while, but I spoke to this wonderful doctor a few weeks ago on the show called Dr. Howard Schubiner, and he was talking about a lot of the research he's done on chronic pain. And he was sharing how the body will have pain to a physical injury-

  2. 7:02 – 17:29

    Why We Avoid the Cold: History and Discomfort

    1. RC

      So can you just speak to that at the start here?

    2. SS

      Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that is definitely the main thing. The thing is that in our society, we are now in a time where we don't want to get uncomfortable. We are so used to seeking comfort all the time, and we, we want that. We want everything to be warm. We want everything to be easy, easy food, fast food. We want everything to be right at, at our hands. And we have taught ourself that the cold is not something that is useful for anything.

    3. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SS

      And I kind of understand why because, well, we haven't really for a long time known what does the cold actually do for us, is beneficial for us. It's quite new that, as you said, that the science has caught up with this in- intuitively good thing to do.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. SS

      Right? So it's, it's actually brand new-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. SS

      ... that we know that this is good for us. So that is why we're sitting here, right? We're talking about what is the benefits of this on a scientific level. But for thousands of years, we have known intuitively that this is good. So if, if we go back to, um, Hippocrates, let's go back to the, the ancient times where they already knew that this is really, really good. So he said that using cold and heat actually for, um, these ancient philosophers from that time said that you should go into the cold water, you should go into the hot water because it's good for your cardiovascular system, and it's good for your heart. So they already advised it back then.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. SS

      And people were doing this all over. They called it thermalism.

    11. RC

      Wow.

    12. SS

      So they were doing this everywhere and, uh, and, and, and it was something they... everybody thought of as beneficial for them, and there was no really proof of this. But since thermalism and u- until maybe today, there has been wars going on and, uh, also the Titanic, uh, uh, disaster also kind of put a shadow over the cold water because then people found out that w- if you drown, if you f- fall into very cold water, you get hypothermic, and you would die within 30 minutes. [laughs]

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. SS

      And that was not very good for the cold water and, and, and its reputation, so no scientist at that time wanted to pick up this basic science and say, "Well, we need to study more on the beneficial sides of this-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. SS

      ... because it really had this dark history now." So then we actually, or not until if you go back in the science literature, you will find ph- old physiology studies, but these are not that old actually. They go back to the '70s or maybe the '80s, and then up until today, there are more and more studies on the, the, you can say the physiology-

    17. RC

      Mm

    18. SS

      ... of the cold. But up until then, people didn't want to really touch it because of all these accidents and, and stuff that was going on back then. But this is not... This is, of course, accidents, which we shouldn't compare to doing deliberate-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. SS

      ... cold exposure. So that is why we are catching up now, but this was one of the questions I needed to a- have answered for myself. Why is it that we are so behind on this research?

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. SS

      Why is it that I can come today and, and, and tell you about [laughs] cold water exposure and brown fat and, and the beneficial side of this, and we are in 2022?

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. SS

      So I think it's, it's a bit late, but we are picking up. We are getting back to the thermalism. [laughs]

    25. RC

      Yeah. It, it's interesting to hear that historical kind of narrative. I didn't know a lot of that actually. Um, and, and when you mentioned the Titanic-

    26. SS

      Mm

    27. RC

      ... the first thing that came to my mind as you were saying that was that we don't not get in a car because there are car accidents, and in a multi-car pileup on the motorway, a lot of people may well die or get s- you know, seriously injured.

    28. SS

      Yeah. But we do it anyways.

    29. RC

      But we still do it.

    30. SS

      Yeah. [laughs]

  3. 17:29 – 34:39

    Brown Fat: The Body's Inner Heater

    1. SS

      And we actually know this from a very special organ that we have in our body. Nobody knows about this organ. It's, it's not something that we, that we have explored that much, but it's called the brown fat. So the healthy brown fat, I call it healthy, and it is healthy because, uh, but I just want to outline that it's healthy. Um, so the, the healthy brown fat is quite opposite to our white fat, and this special, little bit mystic organ that we have is, uh, is actually the temperature regulator that we have in our body. And if we don't get exposed to temperature, different temperatures changing, uh, on our skin, then we're not using this organ in our body.

    2. RC

      Yeah.

    3. SS

      And m- many people were like, "Well- Do we need it then? Because if we are not exposed to any different temperatures, then we might not need it. But then actually we have found out that this organ is not only controlling our temperature from the inside, um, it's actually also, uh, helping your metabolism. So it has a huge impact on, on our health. And we can see in studies that if people don't have, uh, the healthy brown fat, we see that they have a higher, um... they have more, um, obesity. They have the, they have a, a larger, higher BMI, but they also have type 2 diabetes. So there is definitely a, a correlation of, uh, less brown fat and, uh, and being overweight and having type 2 diabetes and have cardiovascular diseases, and this is also increasing, of course, with age. But we also see that if you have brown fat, that your, um, energy expenditure goes up, and that you will have, uh, lower blood pressure, you will have less obesity and, and not having, um, type 2 diabetes, for example. So people or scientists, uh, from, I think it was about the millennium actually, so it's quite new that people are doing all this research in it, but we found out that if we can activate the brown fat, it will not only increase our temperature from the inside, but it will also use our glucose, and it will use our fat from our bloodstream as fuel. And this is really good for us because then we are cleaning up some of the stuff that we have put in and sitting on, on our couch and eating all this very comforting food. So we have too much of that. This is why we have all these lifestyle diseases. But the brown fat is not being used in our society because we are so comfortable all the time. So if we can get cold on our skin, we can activate the brown fat, and it would do that immediately, actually. So as soon as you get in the cold or go outside actually just in a T-shirt, you will have cold receptors on the skin sending a signal to the brain in the temperature regulating center, and that will release norepinephrine, so... or adrenaline you can also call it. So this stressor will activate, um, your brown fat cells, which will then take sugar and fat in as fuel to generate heat. So you actually get warmer by going into the cold. So when your wife says, "I don't wanna do this" [laughs]

    4. RC

      [laughs]

    5. SS

      "... not for me because I'm so cold," uh, I, I would say, "Well, if you do- just do it a little bit, and you just keep practicing, tell yourself that this is really goo- good." Susanna's study have shown that winter swimmers get warmer, uh, [laughs] by going into the cold. Then she will thank me sometimes I hope. [laughs]

    6. RC

      Yeah, I hope so. Well, she actually is the producer on this show, so-

    7. SS

      Oh, yeah. [laughs]

    8. RC

      ... you know, let's see when she hears this if she, uh, she keeps it in or chops it out, but I'm sure she'll keep it in. Susanna, what you said there was fascinating, right? But let's just rewind a second.

    9. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. RC

      You mentioned healthy brown fat. So by and large across society, the word fat has negative connotations.

    11. SS

      Absolutely.

    12. RC

      For many years, people, you know, have been fearing fats. They don't want fat on their body. They don't want fat in their food. Now regarding diet, that started to change over the last 10 or 15 years, where there's been a recognition that actually some fats are very healthy and, you know, certainly health promoting for the body, whereas certain fats are not, right?

    13. SS

      Yeah.

    14. RC

      So the narrative around fat when it comes to food and diet has started to change, but I think it's really interesting to hear that even the fat in our body has, you know, for want of a better term, kind of good fats and bad fats, right?

    15. SS

      Yeah. [laughs]

    16. RC

      I, I know it's not a perfect term, but this white fat that I think many of us are used to, the fat under our skin, by and large, I think it's fair to say many people, most people want less white fat.

    17. SS

      Yes.

    18. RC

      But you're saying that we should all probably want to have more brown fat in our bodies, and one of the ways we can do that is with cold.

    19. SS

      Yes.

    20. RC

      Now across all ages, what are levels of brown fat like, let's say, in babies, children, adults, as we get older? So that's the first part of this question, you know. How does that change?

    21. SS

      Mm.

    22. RC

      But then I'm also interested, are we as a society losing brown fat because we're in temperature controlled environments all the time, therefore we have no need for it? So I wonder if you could answer those two parts there, please.

    23. SS

      Yeah, really good questions, and I think that we, we definitely need to just talk a little bit about what is the brown fat and-

    24. RC

      Yeah

    25. SS

      ... and where, where does it actually start. So we are born with brow- brown fat, actually a lot of it. So babies have a lot of brown fat, uh, actually on the back, um, and it depe- uh, you can say compared to the rest of the body, uh, it's quite a lot actually. And that is because babies cannot shiver when they get cold because their muscles are not developed enough to, to, to generate heat. So there are two systems in our body that can generate heat. So it's the, the brown fat, and it's also the muscles, but the muscles are kind of too slow to, to actually save us in, in, you can say, in a, in a dangerous situation-

    26. RC

      Mm

    27. SS

      ... where you are exposed to cold. So if you put a, a baby out, uh, on, on the table without clothes, it would definitely start, uh, activating the brown fat immediately. But-

    28. RC

      Wow.

    29. SS

      Yeah. [laughs] But, but if it's, uh, less than six months old, it is not... it, it cannot really shiver in the muscles. So it r- it's really... it's, it's necessary for a baby to survive if it... to have brown fat.

    30. RC

      Wow. Na- nature knows best.

  4. 34:39 – 39:57

    Discovery of Brown Fat and Keeping It Alive

    1. SS

      1531. The first time we discovered, uh, the brown fat was by this scientist who was exploring the physiology of, um, hibernating animals. And he cut up this animal, he found the brown fat, and he was like, "Well, this is mystic kind of fat or, or tissue, or muscle, or whatever." And he found out that this was activated by cold, and that only hibernating ani- animals actually had this. So he found out that the hibernating animals needed the brown fat to survive through the winter, because then they could use that as their inner heater during, uh, hibernation, of course. But later on they found out that, uh, the sci- scientists found out that this is also present in humans, and-

    2. RC

      Mm

    3. SS

      ... it's also p- not e- not hibernating animals, which is quite fascinating, I think. If you look at squirrels, for example, squirrels are hibernating as well, and they go down to two degrees, uh, when they're hibernating, which is a thing I find is super fascinating that they can stay alive. And-

    4. RC

      In such cold

    5. SS

      ... in such cold. And that's because they have brown fat. And this, this has been studied, but this is many years ago. But all these studies that have been, that scientists have done in this have been like, well, they came to a new, a wall where they saw, oh, we cannot really go further with this because we cannot get funding, because now it's kind of like disproving that this is only for hibernating animals. Now humans have it a- as well, we found out, but that is not until the 1960s or something where we saw it by, uh, by coincidence actually.

    6. RC

      Yeah.

    7. SS

      That is qui- quite fascinating that so many years we knew about this in, in animals, but we were kind of like, "Well, we don't need this." It's kind of like-

    8. RC

      Yeah

    9. SS

      ... not, not needed for people, uh, uh, because we are living in houses now and- What is this actually doing?

    10. RC

      It's amazing that, that it was first-

    11. SS

      Mm-hmm

    12. RC

      ... discovered in the 1500s, and what are we now? Like 600 years, 700 y- years later?

    13. SS

      Yeah.

    14. RC

      You know, something that we've known. That's incredible. I'm, I'm also thinking, I mean, this is brilliant, Susanna, it's really getting me thinking about-

    15. SS

      [laughs]

    16. RC

      ... the potential implications across society, these scientific discoveries. But we talk a lot about muscle, right, and sarcopenia, and as we get older, we lose muscle mass. So arguably, strength training is... It becomes more important as we get older.

    17. SS

      Yeah.

    18. RC

      And I'm, I'm kind of feeling something similar with brown fat, whereby we have it as babies, and you're saying after the age of 40, we're starting to see less and less of it. So arguably, it's more important potentially-

    19. SS

      Yeah

    20. RC

      ... I'm putting it to you, that-

    21. SS

      Yeah

    22. RC

      ... we look after it above the age of 40.

    23. SS

      Yeah.

    24. RC

      But I'm also thinking, I wonder if we had studied humans 200 years ago before all these modern comforts, you know, when people were more active, when they weren't living in these temperature-controlled environments. I wonder back then, would brown fat have been lower after the age of 40? You know, is this a modern-

    25. SS

      Probably not

    26. RC

      ... problem? Ah, this is interesting, isn't it?

    27. SS

      It's a modern, it's a modern prob- problem, definitely. I, I'm, I'm pretty sure it is, because we, if you go back, we don't, we didn't see people, uh, at, at age, uh, 40 and above being, uh, obese like today. We, we-

    28. RC

      Yeah

    29. SS

      ... we didn't see that. So it's definitely from the, from the '80s or something like that, we see obesity and, and lifestyle-

    30. RC

      Yeah

  5. 39:57 – 49:18

    Immune Benefits and the 30-Second Cold Shower

    1. RC

      Let's go about the immune system. A lot of people are always looking, particularly at this time of year, how can we look after our immune system? There's a beautiful section in the book on this. You talk about lots of different studies. Um, I wonder if you could start off with the cold shower one, 'cause cold showers are probably one of the most achievable things for people across the world, right? They can probably-

    2. SS

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... get into a cold shower. They don't have to go anywhere-

    4. SS

      Yeah

    5. RC

      ... join a club somewhere, all that kind of stuff. So but that was a pretty powerful study, I thought.

    6. SS

      Yeah. I think so too. It's a randomized control trial, which was done in, um, in Amsterdam. I think it's in, in Holland, in the Netherlands. But the study is about, um, cold showers versus hot showers, you can say. So every... All the, the participants in this study, they were, they were divided into different groups. We don't need to go into the nitty-gritty [laughs] stuff about that. But the, the thing was that they wanted to see what happens if, if you end your shower, your hot shower, on cold. What happens after 30 days if you do that, and if, if you do it for 30 seconds, 60 seconds, and 90, 90 seconds? Which is not very long, right? But-

    7. RC

      Okay, so people are having a hot shower.

    8. SS

      They have a hot shower.

    9. RC

      And they, they do... Literally, they, at the end, they finish with cold.

    10. SS

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      But it's either 30 seconds cold, 60 seconds cold, or 90 seconds cold.

    12. SS

      Yeah.

    13. RC

      Okay, that's not long.

    14. SS

      That's not long. It, but, it, it's long if you don't like-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. SS

      ... the cold. [laughs] So and it's also very stressful, right? So going, turning the... You can say if you turn to, to the cold right away, it's very stressful.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. SS

      And then s- 30 seconds can be very long. But you can build this up, just like the cold plunge or going into the sea. It's, it's just about-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. SS

      ... training this. But what they found, I found very fascinating actually, was that they saw that ending on the cold shower for 30 seconds, 60 seconds, or 90 seconds, it doesn't really matter apparently. So 30 seconds is enough. But they saw that they have less sick, sick days from work. So less sick days from work could be a outcome of maybe boosting your immune system, and, uh, that way you also feel better because of the chemicals in the brain.

    21. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    22. SS

      So it could also be that. It's the whole package of, like, going into the cold and getting this increase in all the brain chemicals, but also a boost in your immune system. So this boost has, um, in a way, kept them from being that sick that they need to stay home at least.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. SS

      So compared to the control group. So I find this very fascinating. So you don't have to go long. It's just if you can build up to 30 seconds, then you will boost your, uh, immune system.

    25. RC

      That's a general point that I was gonna make.

    26. SS

      Mm.

    27. RC

      Um, whether we're talking about cold showers or cold plunge or winter swimming-

    28. SS

      Yeah

    29. RC

      ... was, you know, is it the law of diminishing returns? So do you get most of the benefit right at the start? Like with the cold shower, 30 seconds appears to be just as good as 60 or 90.

    30. SS

      Yeah.

  6. 49:18 – 56:09

    Ego, Competition and Safety Risks

    1. RC

      And one thing I saw in the summer, there's this, there's this brilliant company in the UK called Brass Monkey. So in fact, they've loaned me a cold immersion. It arrived yesterday, and-

    2. SS

      Fantastic. [laughs]

    3. RC

      I know later on you're gonna, you're gonna talk me through. I'm a little bit nervous-

    4. SS

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      ... so we- we're gonna make a video of that-

    6. SS

      Yeah

    7. RC

      ... and put it out there for people to watch-

    8. SS

      You'll be fine

    9. RC

      ... if they want to. I, I am a little nervous 'cause I don't do it.

    10. SS

      [laughs]

    11. RC

      Um, and I think they've made it really easy for people because it's electronic, and you can just turn the temperature to wherever, wherever you want it, okay?

    12. SS

      Oh, fascinating. Good.

    13. RC

      Now, there's, yes, there's a cost implication to that, for sure-

    14. SS

      Mm

    15. RC

      ... for, uh, and for, for many people it'll be something that they can't afford or don't wish to invest in. I completely understand that.

    16. SS

      Mm.

    17. RC

      But there's a lot of high profile people in the UK who have got these Brass Monkeys, and what I saw in the summer is there was a bit of friendly banter between them saying, um, "He's been in for seven minutes at this temperature. Right, I'm gonna go in for eight minutes now at this temperature." And I get it, it's a bit of friendly banter-

    18. SS

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... but there is another side to that.

    20. SS

      Yeah.

    21. RC

      The other side to that is that I think, A, that can be dangerous potentially if people are really trying to muscle through with their minds and stay longer and ignore the signs. I think the other thing for me is, like, this feels like quite an individual tolerance type piece where, you know, everyone's gonna have a different tolerance. For someone who's maybe never exposed themselves to cold in the past, like, 30 seconds might be the equivalent of someone who's super trained doing four minutes.

    22. SS

      Exactly.

    23. RC

      So I don't think you can compare.

    24. SS

      You cannot.

    25. RC

      And I think, I think potentially it's problematic.

    26. SS

      Yeah. I think there's... This is one of the things that I would like also to get, uh, to get across, it is that going into a cold plunge or winter swimming is, is not a, it should not be a competition. It is not a sport like that. It is, it is an individual thing that you do, and you are tolerant to cold in very different ways. And so people, people are more tolerant than other people, and this-

    27. RC

      Mm-hmm

    28. SS

      ... this is, this is because of very different things, because there's c- body composition, which will make it very easy for some, or easier at least for some, and some are just actually more cold tolerant already because they maybe work outside.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      So outside workers have, have more cold tolerance than people sitting in front of the computers all the time, [laughs] uh, all day and sitting in an office. But there's also, um, that people should recognize that some people just have a more sensitive-

  7. 56:09 – 1:06:44

    Evening Plunges, Defining Cold and Air Temperature

    1. RC

      Is that... Could that be then helpful for people in the evening? Because we know one of the key signals to fall into a deep, relaxing sleep is core temperature-

    2. SS

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... dropping.

    4. SS

      Yeah.

    5. RC

      So I'm just wondering, if there is this aftereffect, could there be some potential benefits in doing it in the later parts of the day, where you're sort of trying to assist that temperature drop?

    6. SS

      Well, it's... Yeah, so there are other things going on as well when you go into the cold. You will have a release of... You, you will activate your stress, uh, your, your stress system, right? And you don't wanna get too stressed before you go to bed.

    7. RC

      Mm.

    8. SS

      Um, but on the other hand, uh, as you said, we get this decrease in, in core temperature, and that is actually, uh, we can see that also in, in, in... We have seen that in, in my studies as well, that, that our core temperature decreases, and that is also what's, what makes us sleep and pushes us into the sleep. But, um, the stress that you experience from the cold plunge will probably also keep you a little bit awake.

    9. RC

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    10. SS

      So, but the funny thing is that when I started winter swimming, I got very tired afterwards because I couldn't heat myself up as good as I can now, of course.

    11. RC

      Mm.

    12. SS

      Um, because now I am already, um, adapted to the cold, so I don't shiver, uh, as much as I, I did, uh, I used to.

    13. RC

      Wow.

    14. SS

      But I got really, I got really sleepy afterwards, and I think that is actually because my core temperature went down. And I must say that despite that I just said that, um, that maybe a cold plunge before going, going to bed or a few hours before is maybe not that a, a great idea from a th- a theoretical, uh, level, you can say. But, but on the other hand, when I have done it, I don't feel that I am alert or anything. I'm, I don't feel it afterwards. I felt, I feel the mental balance afterwards-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. SS

      ... because we also activate the parasympathetic nervous system, which is our relaxing part of our nervous system. So if we can stay in the cold water, uh, enough time to get over the cold shock, then we get into this relaxed mood, you can say-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. SS

      ... relaxed mode. And I think that when I do that, I could go home and sleep.

    19. RC

      Yeah. I th- I, I think for me, that speaks to the, the individual nature of all of us.

    20. SS

      Yeah, yeah, exactly.

    21. RC

      Right? So it probably depends what's going on in your life, right? So, you know, if you're someone with a huge amount of stress in your life that you're struggling to manage and cope with-

    22. SS

      Yeah

    23. RC

      ... well, maybe the cold at a particular part of the day is gonna have a different impact-

    24. SS

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... compared to someone who's got, you know, maybe minimal stress in their life.

    26. SS

      Mm.

    27. RC

      And I imagine some people will do a cold plunge in the evening and can't sleep, whereas others, it'll probably be the best thing they can do.

    28. SS

      Yeah, exactly.

    29. RC

      But what defines cold? Like, when we say cold water-

    30. SS

      Yeah

  8. 1:06:44 – 1:12:27

    Cold Plunging With Children

    1. RC

      Any kind of tips and advice as to whether I should be doing this with them? Anything to look out for? I would very much like to. I like to model certain behaviors to my kids all the time. You know, they're gonna see Daddy very shortly going in every morning probably, and I suspect they may wanna have a go.

    2. SS

      Mm.

    3. RC

      So what do you think to that? Safe to do so? Any guidance you'd give me for that?

    4. SS

      Yeah, I think it's safe to do so because you are there. Um, always think about everything, cold plunging, c- winter swimming, as something social. Um, I don't-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. SS

      ... I don't tell, I always tell people to always bring a swim buddy. [laughs] Um, it could be your, it could be a wife. [laughs] That, that could be something you would tell. Well, I need to have someone with me all the time. But with your kids, of course, you need to be there.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. SS

      And, um, one thing that I looked into, I think I also write about it in the book, but, um, more and more people bring their kids, um, to winter swimming and plunging stuff, and I think it's a, it's a good idea, uh, based on what I found. Um, but there... it's very, it's very important to think about the children as they're very much smaller, right? They have a bigger surface area to, relative to their mass.

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. SS

      Meaning that if they go into cold water, they will be able to keep their core temperature just as long as an adult, I have found studies showing that, but they will definitely have a, a faster decrease in core temperature right after.

    11. RC

      Mm.

    12. SS

      Meaning because they have so much surface and that much less mass to keep the temperature up. So that means that what I advise people to do is go, if they bring their children, that they just do a quick dip, a quick dip in the ocean because they will have the benefits of that. They will s- you can say healthy stress their cells, and they will get an, an increase in all the good chemicals in the brain and get-

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. SS

      ... this mental balanced state and, and, and calmness afterwards, just like adults would. But if they stay as long as adults, they ha- this is really risky, I think. They will get hypothermic.

    15. RC

      So in practical terms, and I know every child is different-

    16. SS

      Mm

    17. RC

      ... and depending on which country you live, and the air temperature, and the temperature of the water, it's all gonna be a bit different, but something like 30 seconds seems reasonable?

    18. SS

      I would, I wouldn't put a number on it, I think.

    19. RC

      Got it.

    20. SS

      I think it's-

    21. RC

      Fair enough

    22. SS

      ... yeah, I think it's very important that people, also kids, are taught before they go in how to listen to their own body, and this is something that nobody is actually very good at today because-

    23. RC

      Mm

    24. SS

      ... we have for many years in Western medicine been taught that if there is something wrong, we will get a, we will get a pill-

    25. RC

      Yeah

    26. SS

      ... or something. We don't know how to listen to our own body. We don't know how to concentrate or focus on anything.

    27. RC

      Yeah.

    28. SS

      How can I feel a signal from my body? Well, if you cold plunge, you will at some point, and that is what I think you should tell your, your kids, at some point, you will feel, you, you will feel now this is too much. You'll get a little bit of a chill.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      You can feel it maybe down the spine or something or on, on the arms. I also hear that. Then you know, okay, this is enough, and then you get up.

  9. 1:12:27 – 1:17:15

    Cold Shock, Diving Response and Confidence

    1. RC

      And there's a few terms I, I wonder if you could explain. You, you've mentioned the after drop-

    2. SS

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... so how after you've exposed yourself to cold, you know, your temperature can keep dropping afterwards. There's also this term called cold shock response and diving response. I wonder if you could explain those terms, please.

    4. SS

      Yeah. So the cold shock response is when you... So when you go into the cold water, as soon as you step in, you will activate the, the cold receptors in your skin, and that will send a signal to the brain saying, "Well, this is very, very cold," so norepinephrine will be released, and that will contract your, uh, blood vessels, so you won't have all the blood in your skin. Um, as soon as you get more into the water and you submerge up to, up to the neck, you can do that, uh, you will also activate the diving response, and that is actually activating your parasympathetic, uh, nervous system. Um, so you have, like, an activation of both the, the, the stress response, uh, in your body, but also the calmness, you can say, at the same time.

    5. RC

      So, so the cold shock on any part of your skin-

    6. SS

      Yeah

    7. RC

      ... activates the sympathetic nervous system, which is-

    8. SS

      Yeah

    9. RC

      ... the stress-

    10. SS

      The stress, the fight, the-

    11. RC

      ... arm of our nervous system.

    12. SS

      Yeah. Exactly.

    13. RC

      And if you get it, what, up to your neck, so, what, covering your shoulders, or is there... Is it... Are there specific receptors that we need to cover in cold for this diving response to be activated?

    14. SS

      Uh, I don't know if it... if you can get it from only submerging your legs.

    15. RC

      Right.

    16. SS

      But I th- I don't know that, but I think that if you go up to, up to your neck, up to your shoulders-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. SS

      ... you would definitely have that activation. So-

    19. RC

      And that's one of the fascinating things for me about cold, from studying the research, from reading your book, is this idea that cold activates the sympathetic arm of our nervous system and-

    20. SS

      And-

    21. RC

      ... the parasympathetic part of our nervous system.

    22. SS

      Yes.

    23. RC

      And I, to my knowledge, I'm not sure of anything else I've come across that does both at the same time.

    24. SS

      And this is... I think it's fascinating, because that is e- exactly why when people ask me, "Should I do, um, should I do cold showers? Is that just as good as going into a cold d- doing a cold dip?" And I think exactly that with the activation of both part of your central nervous system is where you benefit more from doing the cold dip.

    25. RC

      Mm.

    26. SS

      So when you have that activation of both sides, you also have a conflict, of course, in the body, and that is where you can say, well, i- it's also a bit of a stressor for the heart, of course, because you have the fight and flight system going up.

    27. RC

      Mm.

    28. SS

      Making, making your heart rate going up, but also the parasympathetic n- nervous system trying to get the heart rate down, and that will make the little conflict in the... in your body.

    29. RC

      Yeah, but I guess this whole thing, this whole idea of a controlled form of stress is talking about, you know, exercising and working out your nervous system.

    30. SS

      Yeah, exactly.

  10. 1:17:15 – 1:26:40

    Cold, Mood, and Getting Out of Your Head

    1. RC

      Speaking about mood and depression and anxiety, things which are rampant and increasing at the moment, there's many ways to look at those conditions, and it's becoming clear that there's so many elements of our modern lives that are contributing, and if we can change various aspects of our lifestyle, we can get improvements. And, you know, I'm thinking about this idea of, um, a, a window of tolerance, you know, being very narrow now for, for many of the reasons we, we've already mentioned. And if I think about a lot of the patients who I've seen over the past couple of decades with depression, a lot of the time they talk about, you know, apathy, indifference, this very narrow experience of life. And I have this very powerful image in my mind at the moment about, you know, things like cold or even heat just almost, almost like shocking them out of this kind of very narrow experience of life and broadening it and giving much more perspective.

    2. SS

      Perspective. Yeah.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. SS

      Exactly.

    5. RC

      Did... Does that, does that sort of fit with your understanding?

    6. SS

      Yeah, exactly. I think the... exactly that was what I found out when I was researching to my studies, but also to my book. I didn't know that I was going to write this book at that time. I was just very keen on understanding what was actually going on in the body.

    7. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SS

      And I was very focused on the body because I was, uh, studying the, the brown fat, which is a physical organ.

    9. RC

      Yeah, yeah.

    10. SS

      But I was also very puzzled by the whole thing, because then I went to the mind, and I needed to read all... what, what is happening in the m- in, in, in our brain when we go into the cold. Also, when... what happens when you go into, to the heat-

    11. RC

      Yeah

    12. SS

      ... in the sauna. But what I couldn't connect was that feeling when people get into the cold, and this perspective that I could hear people talk about.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SS

      They talked about it in the same way, and I know they didn't talk together about telling me this. [laughs]

    15. RC

      No.

    16. SS

      So everybody talked about it in the same terms of, like, feeling in this kind of, like, zen mood afterwards and being in mental balance. But also, like, this... People told me that it's very difficult to understand completely what it actually does, so... But it definitely gives some kind of perspective in life.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. SS

      And this perspective comes from getting out of your, out of your body, out of your mind a bit, being shocked a bit, but in a controlled way.

    19. RC

      Yeah. I think, you know, t- thinking about mood issues, I'm not sure there's anything better than going in cold to immediately get you out of your head. You literally... You can't be in your head. You can't think about your anxieties and your worries and your email inbox and your shopping list and the to-

    20. SS

      Exactly

    21. RC

      ... do. You can't do it in the cold because straight away it brings you into your body, doesn't it?

    22. SS

      Ex- exactly. You cannot, because you go into survival mode, right? So as soon as you go into the water, the, the sympathetic, the, the fight and flight system will start, and in that situation, if you t- think about us, uh, back, back when we, uh, when we were hunters, for example-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. SS

      ... we could not think about, oh, what is actually going on, uh, back home, or we are sitting in the water and thinking about what to shop, uh, next, tomorrow, or what I need to, to buy. You cannot think about anything else. You are in the moment. Whether you d- you want to or not, the cold would get you there.

    25. RC

      Sorry to interrupt. If you are enjoying this content, there's loads more just like it on my channel, so please do take a moment to press Subscribe, hit the notification bell, and now back to the conversation.

    26. SS

      Immediately. You cannot decide this. You would definitely get there immediately. So that is why it's good, when you asked me before, is this something we should tell anybody, everybody-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. SS

      ... should everybody do this? And I think, yes. We are in a society right now where we are overwhelmed. We are overwhelmed in a way where we can see statistics of depression, anxiety, and, uh, stress curves going right up. You can go to the World Health Organization and see the s- s- statistics.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      And it's, it's, it's, it's actually a bit scary, I think. And what, what are we doing? We are trying our best, I would say. We're trying our best to solve it in a way, um, making more medication, but we have so much medication also. We have so much, and we are fighting to get more to help people, but I think we are missing the point. The point is that we are just working ourselves into this more and more and more and forgetting where do we actually come from.

  11. 1:26:40 – 1:35:49

    Noradrenaline, Dopamine and Sticking With It

    1. RC

      We mentioned noradrenaline-

    2. SS

      Mm

    3. RC

      ... already one of these, um, chemicals in the body that gets released when we expose ourselves to cold. I think we should maybe just explain what noradrenaline is, what it helps with. But also one of the things I love about the cold and the research is that, yes, noradrenaline goes up, dopamine also goes up, and it's-

    4. SS

      Yeah

    5. RC

      ... a sustained release, isn't it?

    6. SS

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      It's not just for, like, 10 seconds.

    8. SS

      No. I think it's-

    9. RC

      Some of the research I've seen, it's, it's hours, right?

    10. SS

      Yeah. I think it's so fascinating. When we look at noradrenaline, so noradrenaline is, um, both a brain chemical-

    11. RC

      Mm

    12. SS

      ... but it's also a hormone that is released from our adrenal glands. So you get it from two places in the body when you go into the cold. I have found out that I wanted to see where does it release first, but it's definitely from your brain that is, that comes first because it needs to activate the brown fat as well, right? So you don't freeze. [laughs]

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    14. SS

      And, and, but it also comes from your, um, your adrenal glands. That is increased within minutes up to 250% above baseline. That is a lot.

    15. RC

      Mm.

    16. SS

      That is... And it's so rapid because it needs to save us, right? This is our fight and flight system.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. SS

      So we need the fast response. We cannot get that from the heat. We need to get that from the cold. So noradrenaline goes up 250% above baseline within a few minutes. If you can build that up, then you are good, I think. That is what you need.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. SS

      But at the same time, you also get that increase in dopamine, and dopamine is something that is really, really good for our drive, our motivation-

    21. RC

      Yeah

    22. SS

      ... and for, you know, getting good habits a, uh, as well. As when you get this release of dopamine going into the cold, I won't say that you will get a- addicted to the cold water-

    23. RC

      [laughs]

    24. SS

      ... but you will get a really, really good feeling around going into the cold water because you get this happy, good feeling-

    25. RC

      Yeah

    26. SS

      ... good mood, good drive, good motivation. And afterwards, and this lasts for hours, up to four hours afterwards. But if you compare the dopamine effect, the, the increase from going into the cold, if you c- co- com- if you compare that with anything else, that could be... You also get that from cocaine, for example, or alcohol, nicotine. You also get this high increase-

    27. RC

      Mm

    28. SS

      ... when you do that. But the difference is that you don't get the rapid crash afterwards. So if you do drugs, for example, you will have a rapid crash afterwards. That is why people go out and, and want more and more and-

    29. RC

      Mm

    30. SS

      ... and more often also. But if you go into the cold, you will have a natural increase in dopamine, which will only make you feel better, but for hours afterwards, and this motivation and drive and good mood, you will have that for the rest of the day.

  12. 1:35:49 – 1:51:10

    Ethnicity, Sex Differences and Søberg's Own Path

    1. RC

      Now, you said you love questions. Uh, a question that has been popping up for me as we've been talking, and before I say, I appreciate that, you know, you live in Denmark and a lot of the research you're doing is in Denmark. We think about our evolutionary nature, where we've come from, and how that might impact our tolerance to cold. It might impact our levels of brown fat. And then I think about myself, you know, my ancestors are from India, so you know, a lot of my ancestors, I imagine, would have pretty warm temperatures for most of the year.

    2. SS

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      Depending on where you are in India-

    4. SS

      Yeah

    5. RC

      ... you, you know, it would never get mega cold.

    6. SS

      Mm.

    7. RC

      Right? You're not gonna get that sort of coldness in the winter that we're gonna get in Europe, for example, or certainly in Northern Europe. Do you know yet, have you been asked yet, you know, how different cultures, um, you know, how different ethnicities, you know, affects levels of brown fat that we have and our ability to tolerate cold?

    8. SS

      So we know there is a difference in, in brown fat, in how much brown fat that we have across the world. So we would definitely see that some people also living in the colder countries, they have a bit more brown fat.

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. SS

      We also know that women have more brown fat than men. Um, and I think it makes sense, so if you, uh, are in a country where you would need the brown fat. So it's just the environment telling us that, well, we need this.

    11. RC

      Mm.

    12. SS

      But from nature's side, if you live in India or you're from India, then you will maybe not need as much brown fat as one who lives in a colder country.

    13. RC

      Mm.

    14. SS

      Women, for example, are, you, you could say we are smaller, we have less, uh, muscle mass-

    15. RC

      Mm

    16. SS

      ... and we have a large, um, um, body surface, of course.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. SS

      And that means that we get colder easily, uh, easier than men. We get colder easier than men.

    19. RC

      Mm.

    20. SS

      And because of that, we, we prob- that is probably why we have more brown fat-

    21. RC

      Mm

    22. SS

      ... than men have, because you have the muscles who, that can heat you up. But for women, we don't have that much muscle mass, so we need more brown fat to heat us up. So it's always something about, I'll come back to it again, it's also about the request. If we request the body to heat itself up because we live in a cold environment, then you will also have more brown fat. But people from India or people from, you can say warmer countries, including myself, I'm half at least Sri Lankan and half Danish, so-

    23. RC

      Okay. For God's sake

    24. SS

      ... [laughs] so, uh, so I know, I know India and I know Sri Lanka, and it's very, very hot. Um, I know from myself, and this is just from my side, I can only tell f- from my own point of view, that if I compare with my friends in Denmark who are Danish, uh, they adapted to the cold faster than I did.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. SS

      And I would say I'm a cold sissy, and I think it's, it's af- absolute... I was a cold sissy. I was, really [laughs] .

    27. RC

      [laughs]

    28. SS

      I didn't wanna become a, a, a winter swimmer. I was definitely one of those saying, "Well, I studied this. Do I really have to become one myself?" Um, and it took me a while to get convinced that I had to. But what I wanted to say is that I went to the cold, and I keep pushing it, so I didn't give up.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      Luckily, I didn't. But it took me a longer time to, to get cold adapted than my friends.

  13. 1:51:10 – 1:59:34

    Scandinavian Culture, Community and Sauna

    1. RC

      One thing I want us to talk about is culture.

    2. SS

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      And we just mentioned that, that bit of research you conducted in Denmark where winter swimming is a thing that, you know, a lot of people enjoy and want to do. You also touched on sauna in your book. There's a whole chapter on sauna. And you know, what's really interesting to me is that certainly here in the UK we associate sauna and cold with Scandinavia. If I remember, this is how many years ago now? I remember when I used to work in Timperley, which is, you know, a little village in, in the northwest of England. I was... Uh, I used to go to the gym on the way to work in the morning. This is pre-kids, okay? [laughs]

    4. SS

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      Uh, I think I went about half 6 when it opened, and I'd do about a half an hour in the gym, and then I'd finish off in the pool, and there'd always be this... There was this Danish guy who I got to know. I can't remember his name now, but he would always... He was there for, like, an hour literally going sauna, cold plunge-

    6. SS

      [laughs]

    7. RC

      ... sauna, cold plunge. I remember chatting to him. This is years ago, right?

    8. SS

      Yeah.

    9. RC

      So I, I knew nothing about the research. I said, "Hey, what's going on?" He goes, "No, no, it's great. It's really good for my circulation." So again, an anecdotal kind of-

    10. SS

      Yes

    11. RC

      ... you know, just a comment.

    12. SS

      Yeah.

    13. RC

      And I thought, yeah, sounds good. I'm gonna try it. So I, you know, I tried it for, what, now and again or a few weeks, whatever. I don't actually remember, but this whole cultural phenomena, like, are you finding that certain cultures are more willing to accept the information and, and act on it than others? I don't, I don't know. You know, do you feel in Denmark is this message landing in a particular way compared to, let's say, the UK? Have you got any experience with that?

    14. SS

      Yeah, so it seems like in Denmark because we have this culture around, we... It's also cold in, [laughs] in the UK, so we have about the same, you can say, um, uh, temperature-wise-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. SS

      ... air and, and water. But in Denmark, there is definitely a culture around, uh, winter swimming.

    17. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SS

      And we don't really have a sauna culture in Denmark. We don't really have that, but we have a... We have, like, borrowed stuff from Finland, and we have borrowed a bit from, from Germany, where they do the, the sauna guss, which is, like, uh, putting, pouring water over the stones-

    19. RC

      Mm

    20. SS

      ... and then swinging the towels around and then putting essential oils on and stuff like that, and also maybe sometimes listen to music inside the sauna.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. SS

      So there's different cultures coming in, and in Denmark we have been practicing this for a while now, maybe 10 years or something like that, but-

    23. RC

      But it's mostly cold in Denmark, isn't it? It's not-

    24. SS

      It, it's mostly cold, yes, exactly, but, but the, the sauna culture is very new in Denmark as well. But it's starting to pop up more and more, and we like... Apparently, we are a culture which... where we like going back and forth, um, so doing the contrast therapy, uh, for, for blood circulation. We adapted that quite easily, I would say.

    25. RC

      Mm.

    26. SS

      We, we take that in as a culture because we are, yeah, I don't know, Scandinavia, close to Finland and Germany, where they already-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. SS

      ... are doing this. So we adapted that. So I think when I did my study, I wanted to... One, I wanted to find out, uh, an easy protocol with how low dose can we get health benefits from the cold?

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      That was one thing, and also I wanted to, I wanted to, um... Also, I wanted to study a method which was already very much used in Denmark.

  14. 1:59:34 – 2:11:08

    Practical Tips and the Søberg Principle

    1. RC

      Wearing a hat. If people are going winter swimming or going... obviously in a shower you're probably not gonna wear a hat, but winter swimming or going into a cold plunge yourself, let's say it's outside, there's benefits to wearing a hat, isn't there? And, and then if you could also speak to, do you need to get your head underwater?

    2. SS

      Mm.

    3. RC

      I think that's really, really important.

    4. SS

      So I think that if you... you can wear a hat if, especially if you think that, that you get too cold too easily. Um, and if there's a wind, there's a strong wind, that could actually determine how long time that you're going to-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. SS

      ... sit in your cold plunge and if you can, if you can pass the cold shock response. So wear a hat because that also protects your ears from the wind-

    7. RC

      Mm

    8. SS

      ... and especially if you ha- uh, I have, have, like... my ears always get super easily cold, and then I get a bit dizzy.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. SS

      So cold ears and ear infection, if you are, uh, like prone to that, then wear a hat because that will protect you. Also, a lot of heat is coming out of your head, right?

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. SS

      So I think that is around 80% of our-

    13. RC

      Yeah, yeah

    14. SS

      ... body temperature is actually, uh, coming out of our, our head. So if you put a hat on, then it's more, uh, you can say controlled to the rest of the, your body. Um, so wear a hat is definitely a good thing if you, you have those kind of issues also. I always take my hands above the water because my fingers hurt, and I don't think that should hold people back. So if you, if you think that that will help you, then take your hands up or wear a gloves. If they're, if it's icy, then do that because then you can stay in the water for a little bit longer.

    15. RC

      So you can get the benefits-

    16. SS

      Oh, yeah

    17. RC

      ... even without your hands in-

    18. SS

      Yeah

    19. RC

      ... even without your head in.

    20. SS

      Yeah.

    21. RC

      I think that's, that's great for people to hear.

    22. SS

      Yeah. A- actually, I think that this is also really important, that you, you can get the benefits from just putting a hand in the water or hands or feets are in the water. You, you can get some, uh, cold adaptation actually from that.

    23. RC

      Wow.

    24. SS

      There is actually studies showing, uh, from... it's, it's fishermens who have their hands a lot in cold water. Shows that, uh, re- nice research has, have been done on, on these, uh, fishermens, and it shows that, that they are cold adapted all over their body, but only their hands were actually in, in the, in, in the cold water. And I think this actually tells us that the body is like one system. It's not the hand is one thing.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. SS

      It's, it's the whole system. It's all connected. So if you get cold adapted from submerging up to your neck and you don't put your head under, you will get adapted anyways.

    27. RC

      I love it. So just doing the washing up in cold water-

    28. SS

      [laughs]

    29. RC

      ... we're, we're sort of getting, getting all these benefits. So I think, I think that's fantastic.

    30. SS

      Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:11:08

In the uListen app, the transcript lights up word by word as you listen. Get uListen

Transcript of episode 5udactTA5IY

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOSAndroidClaudeChatGPTChrome