Re:Thinking with Adam GrantEd Helms on The Office, comedic snafus, and learning from failures | ReThinking with Adam Grant
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:16
Andy Bernard in the classroom: Office “how not to” lessons and Ed’s ‘pass’ power move
Adam opens by teasing that Ed Helms (as Andy Bernard) is a recurring case study in his class for workplace missteps. Ed riffs on a new tactic—simply saying “pass” to uncomfortable questions—turning the interview into a comedic warm-up that sets the tone for talking about failures.
- •Andy Bernard as an example of what not to do at work (business, interviews, coworker help)
- •Ed distinguishes himself from the character he plays
- •Ed introduces the comedic bit: you can just say “pass” to a question
- •“Pass” as a (joking) job-interview strategy and confidence signal
- 1:16 – 2:34
Learning to love bombing: standup comedy as callus-building
Ed frames show business—and especially standup—as a repeated encounter with failure. He describes how comedians build toughness by normalizing bombs and bonding through shared pain.
- •Show business as a “festival of failure,” standup as the most brutal version
- •Bombing as training: building calluses and resilience
- •Older comics celebrate bombs as a rite of passage
- •Community forms through hardship in comedy clubs
- 2:34 – 3:47
Ed’s worst standup bomb: the Long Island neurosurgeon heckler
Ed recounts an early middle set at Governors in Levittown where he wasn’t ready for a 30-minute slot. A heckle derails him, and a failed comeback (“brain surgeon?”) collapses when the heckler actually is one—handing the crowd a decisive win.
- •Big-room mismatch: Long Island vibe vs NYC rooms
- •Taking a 30-minute middle slot without reliable material
- •Heckler confrontation and the doomed ‘brain surgeon’ line
- •Realization that once credibility is lost, the crowd takes control
- 3:47 – 4:58
What bombing feels like—and when being unknown becomes an advantage
Adam probes the emotional aftermath of a flop, and Ed explains it can feel like physical pain despite attempts to reframe it. He contrasts unprepared bombs with moments when preparation plus anonymity can be empowering, because you can surprise an audience with “killer” material.
- •Bombing can be viscerally painful, especially as an outsider
- •Reframing failure works sometimes, but not always
- •Preparedness changes everything: confidence via legwork, not fame
- •Being unknown can help when you’re ready to exceed expectations
- 4:58 – 6:40
Breaking into showbiz: find your cohort and reduce the friction
Ed’s main advice for entering comedy or entertainment is to find a supportive peer group who validates the aspiration. He explains that even mild skepticism from others creates constant drag, and that drag is especially strong in places where the career path seems unrealistic.
- •Start by surrounding yourself with people who think your goal is awesome
- •Resistance isn’t always direct criticism—often subtle doubt and friction
- •Growing up in Atlanta: few models for comedians/actors, more eye-rolls
- •Supportive community as a force multiplier for persistence
- 6:40 – 7:22
Origin story: SNL, Eddie Murphy, and chasing the feeling of fun
Ed traces the desire back to age eight or nine, inspired by Saturday Night Live. He was drawn less to understanding the mechanics and more to the live energy—and to Eddie Murphy’s visible joy and spontaneity.
- •Knew the goal early (8–9 years old)
- •SNL as the spark; live audience energy as the hook
- •Eddie Murphy as the embodiment of presence and fun
- •Motivation: wanting the same joy he saw on stage
- 7:22 – 8:33
Why TV/film can still be thrilling: endless takes as creative exploration
Adam contrasts standup’s immediate audience feedback with the boredom of repetitive TV takes. Ed counters that he loves multiple takes as a chance to experiment—pursuing comedic perfection through small variations and constant novelty.
- •TV production can be repetitive and delayed-gratification
- •Ed enjoys additional takes to explore alternate comedic angles
- •Changing choices take-to-take to find a better ‘spin’
- •The pursuit of an unattainable comedic perfection is the fun
- 8:33 – 9:56
Lessons from The Office: recognizing the “good old days” in real time
Ed shares his pride in delivering the finale line about knowing the good old days while you’re in them. The broader lesson is to cherish the mundane moments because that’s what nostalgia is made of, and Adam connects it to mindfulness vs flow.
- •Finale quote as a personal and thematic takeaway
- •Cherish the ordinary; nostalgia is built in small moments
- •Mindfulness vs flow: awareness can change enjoyment
- •Reframing awareness as a ‘beautiful thing’ rather than a loss
- 9:56 – 11:37
Favorite SNAFU: the Cold War plan to nuke the moon
Ed tells a standout historical fiasco: a U.S. proposal to demonstrate nuclear power by hitting the moon. He explains the rationale, Carl Sagan’s involvement, and the terrifying possibility of miscalculation sending the weapon back toward Earth—leading to the plan being scrapped.
- •Cold War signaling via a moon-visible nuclear demonstration
- •“Everyone can see the moon” as the PR logic
- •Carl Sagan’s early-career involvement discovered via a fellowship application
- •Risk analysis: miss/slingshot scenario could return the missile to Earth
- 11:37 – 12:51
Patterns behind major snafus: groupthink, missing voices, and fear-driven decisions
Adam offers group polarization and groupthink as a central cause, and Ed agrees, adding context about homogeneous decision-making—especially the absence of women in mid-century leadership rooms. Ed also highlights fear as a powerful driver that can distort judgment.
- •Groupthink and overconfidence as the dominant failure pattern
- •Lack of dissent and questioning locks groups onto bad paths
- •Homogeneous rooms (e.g., few/no women) narrow values and perspectives
- •Fear as a motivator that often produces poor judgment
- 12:51 – 17:35
Lightning round on The Office and Ed’s persona: spinoffs, episodes, singing, and ‘making it’
Audience rapid-fire questions bring out Ed’s playful side: an Andy Bernard spinoff concept, character identification, and favorite Office moments (especially “Dinner Party”). He also talks about a cappella, being expected to be funny, fleeting career milestones, and redefining success through parenting and values.
- •Andy spinoff idea (“Andy Time”) and post-Dunder-Mifflin path
- •Relating to Andy’s insecurity but with better ‘tools’ in real life
- •Favorite episode/scene: “Dinner Party” and the tiny TV adjustment bit
- •A cappella is fun to do but painful to watch; singing isn’t contractual—he pushes it anyway
- •‘Making it’ feels temporary; success shifts to being a parent kids can be proud of
- 17:35 – 19:07
How to face your next snafu: build a culture where failure isn’t catastrophic
Ed’s closing advice returns to community: resilience depends on the people and norms around you, not just internal grit. He encourages listeners to shape a supportive culture by how they respond to others’ failures, making setbacks feel survivable rather than identity-defining.
- •Find ‘your people’ who value you through success and failure
- •Your reaction to others’ failures helps set the culture you live in
- •Create an environment where failure is information, not catastrophe
- •Community and vibe determine whether setbacks feel devastating
