From $0 to $9M: How an Immigrant Turned Failure Into Fortune | Jenny Lei, Freja

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Teaser

   1. MMMarina Mogilko0:00

      now your business makes over $10 million in revenue annually.

   2. JLJenny Lei0:04

      I love New York. If I wanna stay in this country, I need to make money.

   3. MMMarina Mogilko0:07

      You're from China. Did you have a U.S. passport back then?

   4. JLJenny Lei0:09

      I don't have a U.S. passport, so-

   5. MMMarina Mogilko0:10

      Oh, so you were still on a visa?

   6. JLJenny Lei0:12

      So I'm also trying to sell a work bag right before COVID. Launch! Hey, we're live. Not a single person bought. [upbeat music]

   7. MMMarina Mogilko0:18

      Oh, my goodness.

   8. JLJenny Lei0:19

      But now Hailey Bieber wearing one of our bags.

   9. MMMarina Mogilko0:21

      And then I saw Anna Delvey wore your bag to court.

   10. JLJenny Lei0:25

       It's a part of our story now. If you don't tell your story, someone else will.

2. 0:30 – 2:15

   "You have to fish where the fish are"

   1. MMMarina Mogilko0:30

      Jenny, thank you so much for being here. I'd love to talk about your business and your journey. First of all, can you walk me through this mindset? You're in New York-

   2. JLJenny Lei0:39

      Mm-hmm

   3. MMMarina Mogilko0:39

      ... uh, and you have no design background, and you're like, "Let me start a brand that makes bags," and it's a-

   4. JLJenny Lei0:46

      [laughs]

   5. MMMarina Mogilko0:46

      ... highly saturated market. You have all the designers you can think of. What was going on in your head?

   6. JLJenny Lei0:52

      A lot of things. [chuckles] um, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. So Freja started as my dream to design the perfect work bag for modern women.

   7. MMMarina Mogilko1:02

      But why bags? Like, there are other ways to make money.

   8. JLJenny Lei1:04

      The reason why bags, um, I don't really believe in oversaturation. I think you should go fishing where there are a lot of fish in the water. Um, I think, like, trying something new and totally, like, no one- that no one else has ever done is actually a lot more risky. And then why bags is, it's, like, a twofold story. When I graduated from undergrad, same situation, I had to make money 'cause I didn't have a job, and I googled how to make money fast online, and I found dropshipping.

   9. MMMarina Mogilko1:33

      You probably found all of those YouTube videos like-

   10. JLJenny Lei1:34

       I did

   11. MMMarina Mogilko1:35

       ... make $100.

   12. JLJenny Lei1:35

       I went to YouTube University. I did. [laughing]

   13. MMMarina Mogilko1:37

       [laughing]

   14. JLJenny Lei1:38

       Um, so I was like, "Okay, this is my thing. I'm gonna try this." I made, I think, six stores, maybe got, like, one or two sales this whole time-

   15. MMMarina Mogilko1:47

       Oh.

   16. JLJenny Lei1:47

       ... and then my seventh store, I was dropshipping bags.

   17. MMMarina Mogilko1:51

       From China, or-

   18. JLJenny Lei1:51

       From China.

   19. MMMarina Mogilko1:52

       Yeah, mm-hmm.

   20. JLJenny Lei1:52

       And that worked really well, so I'm like, "Okay, I know how to sell bags. I know what kinds of bags people like. I know what colors. I know what countries. Okay." And then I kinda, like, shelved that idea. I still went back to grad school. I was like, "I should be a designer, like, I wanna..." A UX designer was what I went to grad school for. I was like, "I think this suits me. Um, I think I should still find a job." And then, I think this was halfway

3. 2:15 – 3:13

   How the business idea was born

   1. JLJenny Lei2:15

      through grad school, I was preparing for a very important interview. This was, like, my last chance to get a job, in my head, and the night before the interview, I couldn't find a bag that I would... I could bring to this interview. Like, I wanted to walk in feeling confident. I was supposed to be there the whole day. They let me go after three people talked to me, and they're like, "Okay, you can go now." So I'm like, "Okay, I don't think I got that job." So I went to Bryant Park, and I sat there, and I thought, "Okay, um, what can I do? Like, I'm not gonna get this job. If I wanna stay in this country, I wanna- if I wanna stay, I need to make money. I need to find a job for myself. I feel like there are other women who might also experience what I experienced today, which is not having a go-to bag that they felt confident and was super functional and elevated with no, like, logos or anything like that." So I'm like, "Okay, I have an idea. I think I can make that, and I know how to sell bags, so what if I started my own bag brand?" That's how I started, and then I started sketching, um, the day I got back.

4. 3:13 – 4:18

   Didn’t want to leave the USA

   1. MMMarina Mogilko3:13

      Did you have a passport, a U.S. passport, back then?

   2. JLJenny Lei3:15

      I don't have a U.S. passport, so-

   3. MMMarina Mogilko3:16

      Oh, so you were still on a visa?

   4. JLJenny Lei3:18

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MMMarina Mogilko3:19

      So that meant you had to move-

   6. JLJenny Lei3:20

      Exactly

   7. MMMarina Mogilko3:20

      ... really fast.

   8. JLJenny Lei3:21

      Exactly, yeah.

   9. MMMarina Mogilko3:22

      Oh, wow. And your parents are still in China, right?

   10. JLJenny Lei3:24

       They're in China.

   11. MMMarina Mogilko3:25

       When did you move? How old were you?

   12. JLJenny Lei3:26

       I was born in China. I moved to US when I was four.

   13. MMMarina Mogilko3:30

       Okay.

   14. JLJenny Lei3:30

       Um, grew up in the US, and I actually went to high school in China.

   15. MMMarina Mogilko3:34

       Mm.

   16. JLJenny Lei3:35

       'Cause I visited-

   17. MMMarina Mogilko3:35

       Mm-hmm

   18. JLJenny Lei3:35

       ... the summer before high school in the US, and I'm like: Wait, this place is dope. Like, I could see myself living here.

   19. MMMarina Mogilko3:41

       Yeah.

   20. JLJenny Lei3:41

       So I moved back to China by myself. My parents came back two months later. I enrolled into a local Chinese high school.

   21. MMMarina Mogilko3:48

       Wow.

   22. JLJenny Lei3:48

       I learned how to read and write Chinese in high school.

   23. MMMarina Mogilko3:50

       Wow.

   24. JLJenny Lei3:50

       But now I can talk to my factory in Chinese.

   25. MMMarina Mogilko3:52

       Yeah.

   26. JLJenny Lei3:53

       Like, everything kinda worked out really well.

   27. MMMarina Mogilko3:55

       Do you think you'll ever go back, or...?

   28. JLJenny Lei3:57

       Mm, not to live.

   29. MMMarina Mogilko3:58

       No?

   30. JLJenny Lei3:58

       No, I love New York.
5. 4:18 – 7:00

   "I didn’t have a marketing strategy"

   1. MMMarina Mogilko4:18

      strategy?

   2. JLJenny Lei4:18

      I didn't really have one. I thought, "Let me..." Okay, so I'm very much, like, a one-step-at-a-time kind of person. I don't... I'm not a planner. Um, trying to be. So I went to school Decem- January 2019, and then I graduated December 2019, but during that summer, like, I was in China looking for factories and doing all of that. So my, my only goal was to make one bag that I was really, really happy with, and that took eight months of back and forth, 'cause I didn't know what I was doing.

   3. MMMarina Mogilko4:49

      Mm.

   4. JLJenny Lei4:49

      And then my factory was like, "How do you want us to work off of these sketches?" Like, "I don't know what you want."

   5. MMMarina Mogilko4:53

      Yeah.

   6. JLJenny Lei4:53

      And so there's a lot of communication issues there, too. So a lot of my time was just focused on getting the product perfect, so I'm like, "You know what? I can worry about everything after that." I think, you know, product is king, marketing is queen. My initial launch strategy, so... 'Cause I was dropshipping, so I knew how to do ads, and even to this day, like, we're very, very heavy on, um, paid advertising.

   7. MMMarina Mogilko5:14

      Amazon, or is it just Shopify?

   8. JLJenny Lei5:15

      No, just Shopify.

   9. MMMarina Mogilko5:17

      Mm.

   10. JLJenny Lei5:17

       Um, we're only D2C, and we're in a couple retailers as well. Um, but my [chuckles] my go-to-market strategy was, "I'm gonna run an ad for people to sign up, email."

   11. MMMarina Mogilko5:28

       After you made a product?

   12. JLJenny Lei5:29

       After I made the product.

   13. MMMarina Mogilko5:30

       'Cause people do A/B tests on, like, mock-ups, right, normally, like-

   14. JLJenny Lei5:33

       That's what I was told to do. I didn't do it.

   15. MMMarina Mogilko5:35

       [upbeat music] To grow her business quickly in the US, Jenny used email marketing, because there is one very important rule in the US: no emails, no sales. This is why it's super important that you find the right platform to run your email marketing on, and Omnisend, who's sponsoring today's video, is the platform. It allows you to run email marketing, SMS, pop-ups, everything in one place. Omnisend is powerful-... but at the same time, a user-friendly platform, and there are three reasons for that. First of all, it has affordable pricing. You can start with a free plan, and then add features as your business grows. You don't have to pay for things that you do not use. The second benefit, oh, my God, you're gonna love their support. Even if you're on a free plan, you get 24/7 support, and a manager replies within three minutes, which is really important for your business. Third, it's a powerful platform without being clunky. Let me actually walk you through setting up your first campaign with Omnisend. First, choose your campaign type. Let's create an email. The subject line is key. Keep it short, 6 to 10 words, personalize it, and make it curious or urgent. Next, fill in sender's name, preheader, campaign name. Then, click Choose Email Template, and pick one that fits your goal or theme. Customize your design, click Save, choose your recipients, and you're done. Pros trust it, beginners nail it. And I have a special promo for you. Use code SVG30 to get 30% off your first three months using Omnisend. The link is down in the description below.

6. 7:00 – 9:33

   "At first, I had only 3 sales a month"

   1. MMMarina Mogilko7:00

      The first model that you designed, the bag, was it successful in terms of, like, paid ads? Did people actually convert, or...?

   2. JLJenny Lei7:06

      Eventually, yes.

   3. MMMarina Mogilko7:07

      Yeah?

   4. JLJenny Lei7:08

      But I ordered 300 bags. I had them sent to my apartment. No, I think they were, like, on the way. I s- started collecting emails. I think I collected 2,500 emails on Facebook, and then once the bags got there, I was like, "Send. Launch! Hey, we're live." Not a single person bought.

   5. MMMarina Mogilko7:22

      Oh, wow.

   6. JLJenny Lei7:22

      And then-

   7. MMMarina Mogilko7:23

      For how long?

   8. JLJenny Lei7:24

      Um, so the bags got to me February of 2020. So I'm also trying to sell a work bag-

   9. MMMarina Mogilko7:31

      Oh, it's-

   10. JLJenny Lei7:31

       -right before COVID.

   11. MMMarina Mogilko7:32

       Oh, my goodness.

   12. JLJenny Lei7:33

       Right. So I'm like, "Okay-

   13. MMMarina Mogilko7:34

       The worst [chuckles]

   14. JLJenny Lei7:34

       ... Let me, let me think about how to market this-

   15. MMMarina Mogilko7:37

       Mm-hmm

   16. JLJenny Lei7:37

       ... in a way where people need- feel like they need a work bag right now." Um, so there was a lot of back and forth on that. Um, I think it took... It took a year to sell out 300 pieces.

   17. MMMarina Mogilko7:47

       Wow.

   18. JLJenny Lei7:48

       Yeah.

   19. MMMarina Mogilko7:48

       And you didn't give up.

   20. JLJenny Lei7:49

       I can't. I have to sell these bags in my apartment.

   21. MMMarina Mogilko7:52

       Well, like, maybe find a job or... It was impossible, right, to find a job-

   22. JLJenny Lei7:55

       Mm

   23. MMMarina Mogilko7:55

       ... during COVID?

   24. JLJenny Lei7:56

       I'm thinking if I was still looking for jobs. I don't think I was. Um, I had savings.

   25. MMMarina Mogilko8:01

       So you were determined.

   26. JLJenny Lei8:01

       I had some runway from dropshipping, but there was one month, I think this was Ap- August 2020. I remember this so clearly. I was sitting on the couch with my laptop, Shopify screen open. Three sales the whole month, $834 the whole month. I'm like, "You know what? It's the worst it's gonna get, right?

   27. MMMarina Mogilko8:20

       Mm. [chuckles]

   28. JLJenny Lei8:20

       We're it's only up from here." And I remember how I kept going during that time. It's like, "Jenny, you're gonna look back five years from now, and you're gonna be so happy that you kept going."

   29. MMMarina Mogilko8:30

       It's like your future self talking to you.

   30. JLJenny Lei8:31

       Yeah.
7. 9:33 – 13:28

   THIS is more important than targeting

   1. JLJenny Lei9:33

      I believe I started interviewing ads agencies, and, like, I think I've kind of hit a wall with what I can do. Um, but I think, like, I got the brand voice down, to where I could, you know, teach an agency that. First one was honestly terrible. Um, they told me that I should focus on writing content, and I'm like, "I'm trying to sell bags now." Content marketing works, but that takes a lot of time. They were like, "You should write blog posts." I'm like, "Okay, I will do that-"

   2. MMMarina Mogilko9:57

      Yeah.

   3. JLJenny Lei9:57

      "... but however, I need to sell this product." Um, second one was okay. Third one started working really well, so, like, they helped us pick up... It was so expensive, though. I think it was, like, $3,000 a month, and given, like, I'm not really making money at this point-

   4. MMMarina Mogilko10:13

      Mm

   5. JLJenny Lei10:13

      ... so I'm like, "Okay, leap of faith. Like, let's, let's hope it works out." And then I got assigned a new, um, ads person, and he, he got it. Like, he-

   6. MMMarina Mogilko10:26

      What was so special about his approach?

   7. JLJenny Lei10:28

      I don't know. I don't remember.

   8. MMMarina Mogilko10:29

      He did the same creatives, or...?

   9. JLJenny Lei10:30

      Same creatives.

   10. MMMarina Mogilko10:31

       It's just the way he targeted people.

   11. JLJenny Lei10:33

       I think so.

   12. MMMarina Mogilko10:33

       Interesting.

   13. JLJenny Lei10:33

       There was something different about it. Yeah.

   14. MMMarina Mogilko10:35

       Interesting.

   15. JLJenny Lei10:36

       And I think we had... Maybe the ad account was, um, had enough data at that point, where Facebook could use to find new people, but I, I don't know. Patrick, like, he, he just got it. Um, and then we started hitting, like, 2, 2.5, consistently 3, sometimes 4, um-

   16. MMMarina Mogilko10:55

       For the same creatives that you used-

   17. JLJenny Lei10:56

       Same creative

   18. MMMarina Mogilko10:56

       ... for the whole year?

   19. JLJenny Lei10:57

       Same creative.

   20. MMMarina Mogilko10:58

       Surprising.

   21. JLJenny Lei10:58

       I know.

   22. MMMarina Mogilko10:58

       'Cause my strategy with paid ads would be like, "Oh, this creative is not working."

   23. JLJenny Lei11:02

       Mm-hmm.

   24. MMMarina Mogilko11:02

       "Let's just try 100 more and see what's working."

   25. JLJenny Lei11:04

       Mm-hmm, on the creative side.

   26. MMMarina Mogilko11:06

       Yeah.

   27. JLJenny Lei11:07

       I'm lazy, so I'm like, "This is the creative. I know it works."

   28. MMMarina Mogilko11:10

       Do you know how-

   29. JLJenny Lei11:11

       Fantastic

   30. MMMarina Mogilko11:11

       ... many iterations you went through till you found that piece that worked?
8. 13:28 – 15:45

   $9M a year. How?

   1. MMMarina Mogilko13:28

      Now your business makes over $10 million in revenue annually.

   2. JLJenny Lei13:32

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MMMarina Mogilko13:32

      What has changed in terms of marketing? Are you still doing the paid ads? Are they still the pr- the number one source for you?

   4. JLJenny Lei13:38

      Yeah, paid ads are our bread and butter. Um, I think we're al- always in customer acquisition mode, 'cause we're, we're still very small and very, like, a very young brand. Um, last year, I started thinking like, "Okay, paid ads aren't gonna work forever, obviously. Um, they're working great now, but let's also start some other channels before we have to." Like, I don't wanna wait until it stops working. So we're investing heavily into influencer. Um, I have a good program for that.

   5. MMMarina Mogilko14:10

      UGC with influencers, or what?

   6. JLJenny Lei14:12

      Yeah, UGC-

   7. MMMarina Mogilko14:13

      Mm-hmm

   8. JLJenny Lei14:13

      ... and then, like, doing events, and just, like, more, um, collaborations, um, like driving affiliate sales. And then, because I'm thinking, like, I don't really buy things off ads. I buy things when I see someone I like wearing it.

   9. MMMarina Mogilko14:26

      Right.

   10. JLJenny Lei14:26

       Right. I don't really shop from ads, so, um, really building that out, because I also wanna offer a lot of value to our customer. I think something that resonates really deeply with our customer is the backstory. It's the behind-the-scenes. It's, like, the little design choices, why we, why we're doing this, why we're doing that. It's my life, honestly. Like, they wanna hear what I'm up to every day. Like, they... Like, our newsletters, we send two a week. Tuesday is a bit more product-focused, and then Friday I'll send... They're called Jenny's Journals. I'll just, I'm like, "This is what I'm working on," or, "This is what I've been thinking about. I was feeling a lot of imposter syndrome this week, and this is how I walked through it." And, like, people really resonate with that.

   11. MMMarina Mogilko15:04

       But you still avoid bright colors and, like, trends, everything. Does it bother you? Like, "Oh, I'm not following the market. Where's the burgundy?" [chuckles]

   12. JLJenny Lei15:13

       No. I think a lot of my design decisions also are, I am lazy. I don't want to think about seasonality. I don't really wanna think about colors. I want everything to be sellable all year round. And also, I'm not a designer. I don't even know what rules I should be following. Like, I look back at the first bag that I s- I designed, I'm like, [chuckles] "There's no way I would design it like that today."

   13. MMMarina Mogilko15:33

       Mm.

   14. JLJenny Lei15:34

       Um-

   15. MMMarina Mogilko15:34

       But it still sells, right?

   16. JLJenny Lei15:35

       It still sells. I'm like, I, I wanna redesign it, but people like it, and it's kind of... It's a part of our story now, so I'm like, "Maybe I just leave that alone." And it's really fun to see the progression, I think.

9. 15:45 – 18:44

   Сustomers don’t want to be sold to

   1. MMMarina Mogilko15:45

      In one of the interviews, you said you don't like to follow, like, traditional marketing things.

   2. JLJenny Lei15:50

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MMMarina Mogilko15:50

      Um, I wonder what your opinion is on live shopping. 'Cause I feel like it's taking over everything, and you're from China.

   4. JLJenny Lei15:58

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MMMarina Mogilko15:58

      You know how crazy it is out there, and it's coming here. Like, I see creators in China in front of 400 cameras just live streaming, selling, and selling, and selling.

   6. JLJenny Lei16:05

      They're crazy.

   7. MMMarina Mogilko16:07

      Right, and-

   8. JLJenny Lei16:07

      It's a workout. [chuckles]

   9. MMMarina Mogilko16:08

      ... And you just see, like, American social media turning into that, 'cause everyone [chuckles] is now selling, and the social media platforms are pushing that.

   10. JLJenny Lei16:16

       Mm.

   11. MMMarina Mogilko16:16

       What do you think about that? Do you think it's a healthy trend? Does it work for a brand?

   12. JLJenny Lei16:20

       I don't think it's something that I would ever try, just because I think for, for Freja and for me, like, my goal is not to be salesy. My goal is not to, like, push product on you. My goal is to be a brand for the people who are looking for something, you know, made with care, made with love, something that they can wear for a really long time, something timeless and neutral, classic, and I think live shopping kind of goes against that. And it's like, I want this to be a purchase that you think about. Like, I want it to be an investment piece. I, I don't want you to just buy it because, you know, you, you saw me-

   13. MMMarina Mogilko16:57

       Yeah

   14. JLJenny Lei16:57

       ... you saw someone live shopping, and I want it to be... I really want it to be intentional. I think that's, like, one of our brand, um, brand pillars.

   15. MMMarina Mogilko17:04

       You said, "Our customers don't wanna be sold to."

   16. JLJenny Lei17:06

       Mm-hmm.

   17. MMMarina Mogilko17:06

       I really like that phrase. How does that reflect in your, in what you do in marketing? Maybe, like, you don't do, like, "shop now"-

   18. JLJenny Lei17:13

       Mm-hmm

   19. MMMarina Mogilko17:13

       ... stickers or whatever. Can you share some of that?

   20. JLJenny Lei17:15

       So in marketing, first of all, we don't really do sales. We maybe do one or two a year just to let's say, like, "Hey, thanks for being pa- part of our community." Um, I used to never do sales. Never. We didn't do a single sale for the first two years. I'm like, "I don't believe in it." I think our prices are set the way they are to be fair all year round.

   21. MMMarina Mogilko17:34

       Especially because you explain the pricing-

   22. JLJenny Lei17:36

       Yeah

   23. MMMarina Mogilko17:36

       ... on your website, right?

   24. JLJenny Lei17:37

       Right.

   25. MMMarina Mogilko17:37

       If you're discounting, that means you're really just cutting the-

   26. JLJenny Lei17:40

       Exactly

   27. MMMarina Mogilko17:41

       ... margins.

   28. JLJenny Lei17:41

       But, but then someone framed it in a way, and I really liked it. He was like, "This is actually a way to reward your customers, maybe at the end of the year. Like, do a little sale, um, so they can, like, gift their friends and gift themselves."

   29. MMMarina Mogilko17:50

       Yeah.

   30. JLJenny Lei17:50

       And I'm like, "You know what? That's a really good way to put it. I like that a lot." So we do that. Like, for our emails, that's why I... It's never, like, salesy. It's always, like, I, I think of it as a pull, not a push. Like, I wanna pull you into our, um, ecosystem, in the Freja world. I'm like, "What would I wanna see as a consumer?" I want a brand that delivers value to me, like, through our content, um, through our newsletters. Like, I wanna learn something. I wanna be entertained.
10. 18:44 – 20:27

    Women’s entrepreneurship charity

    1. JLJenny Lei18:44

       that we're building out right now, and I want to be more than a brand. Um, like we started the Freja Fund last year, which essentially is, I put out a poll to our community, and they could fill out, um... Well, not, not a poll, but basically they could submit an application, and we selected a group of seven women to- who are, like, working on starting their own businesses, and I essentially, like, mentor them, um, every other week, and we're all in a group, and I've met all of them almost.

    2. MMMarina Mogilko19:12

       Nice.

    3. JLJenny Lei19:13

       So I wanna do more things like that. I think I wanna... I think we're at the stage now where I do- I'm not in, like, survival mode anymore.

    4. MMMarina Mogilko19:20

       Yeah.

    5. JLJenny Lei19:20

       It's not like, uh, "How am I gonna sell this mountain of bags?" I'm like, "Okay, I know they're gonna sell. How can I channel the money we're making now into something that feels really meaningful to me?"

    6. MMMarina Mogilko19:31

       Mm.

    7. JLJenny Lei19:31

       I think that's, like, the stage that we're at right now.

    8. MMMarina Mogilko19:34

       Do you become an investor in their companies, or it's just you just give them money and that's it?

    9. JLJenny Lei19:38

       I don't want to be an investor. Like, I don't, I don't wanna take a part of their baby.

    10. MMMarina Mogilko19:42

        Mm. Wow, so you just... It's just a fun charity.

    11. JLJenny Lei19:45

        Mm.

    12. MMMarina Mogilko19:45

        Wow, that's really-

    13. JLJenny Lei19:46

        I think it's, like, educational, I think, and I think especially in the beginning, what everyone needs more than anything is someone telling them, "Hey, you're not crazy. I believe in you. I believe in your idea," and I think to be surrounded by other women who are also starting their own businesses-

    14. MMMarina Mogilko20:00

        Yeah

    15. JLJenny Lei20:00

        ... like, that's not something that you get... It's not easy to find, especially in the beginning.

    16. MMMarina Mogilko20:05

        Yeah.

    17. JLJenny Lei20:05

        And everyone's like... Problems feel so big in the beginning, and I think it's very reassuring when someone's like, "Don't, don't worry about it. It's, it's fine."

    18. MMMarina Mogilko20:11

        Yeah, and you always feel it's just you-

    19. JLJenny Lei20:13

        It'll be fine

    20. MMMarina Mogilko20:13

        ... nobody else [chuckles] in the world.

    21. JLJenny Lei20:14

        Exactly, like-

    22. MMMarina Mogilko20:15

        Yeah

    23. JLJenny Lei20:15

        ... also, like, everyone-

    24. MMMarina Mogilko20:16

        Very well

    25. JLJenny Lei20:16

        ... is experiencing the same thing.

    26. MMMarina Mogilko20:17

        Yeah.

    27. JLJenny Lei20:17

        Like, on our first call, I think everyone was, um, worried about their packaging, and they were like, "Oh, it's, it's not just me." Like, everyone is going through this-

    28. MMMarina Mogilko20:24

        Yeah

    29. JLJenny Lei20:24

        ... and it's very reassuring.

    30. MMMarina Mogilko20:26

        Yeah.
11. 20:27 – 21:53

    How Hailey Bieber influenced sales

    1. MMMarina Mogilko20:27

       to show you something, a picture. Um, can you tell me what you felt when this happened? [laughing]

    2. JLJenny Lei20:33

       [laughing] I was... Okay, so the picture is Hailey Bieber-

    3. MMMarina Mogilko20:38

       Yeah, yeah

    4. JLJenny Lei20:38

       ... wearing one of our bags. Um, this was April of last year. I had just hired PR, I think, February of that year, and she had started, like, doing some seeding. And I remember I was in Hong Kong. I think I was... I was back to visit family, visit the factory. So I was taking a walk at 6:00 AM, so I was very, very jet lagged, and was looking for, like, an open bakery or something, and suddenly everyone is FaceTiming me. "Okay, what's going on?" And then they're like, "Hailey Bieber is wearing your bag." I'm like, "Oh, my God!" [laughing]

    5. MMMarina Mogilko21:11

       [laughing]

    6. JLJenny Lei21:12

       So that was our first celeb.

    7. MMMarina Mogilko21:13

       Wow.

    8. JLJenny Lei21:13

       Yeah. Um-

    9. MMMarina Mogilko21:14

       So the, the strategy was basically just sending them-

    10. JLJenny Lei21:16

        It was just seeding.

    11. MMMarina Mogilko21:17

        Yeah.

    12. JLJenny Lei21:17

        Mm-hmm.

    13. MMMarina Mogilko21:17

        Yeah, yeah. Wow. And did, did you see a splash in sales, spike in sales?

    14. JLJenny Lei21:22

        A little bit. I think where we did see a huge spike in sales is we started running ads that were s- with, like, um, just saying, like, Hailey-

    15. MMMarina Mogilko21:30

        Oh, with that image?

    16. JLJenny Lei21:31

        I don't know if we used that image. Um-

    17. MMMarina Mogilko21:33

        I think we-

    18. JLJenny Lei21:33

        Or we just say, like... I don't think we can.

    19. MMMarina Mogilko21:35

        Yeah, yeah.

    20. JLJenny Lei21:35

        Yeah, I don't think we can. I think we did, like, the Hailey Bieber bag or whatever, and then people started googling it-

    21. MMMarina Mogilko21:40

        Oh, sh-

    22. JLJenny Lei21:40

        ... and then they would find the article.

    23. MMMarina Mogilko21:41

        Can you do that? Like, can you use somebody's name in an ad? I don't know.

    24. JLJenny Lei21:45

        I don't know. We don't do it anymore. [laughing]

    25. MMMarina Mogilko21:47

        [laughing] But no, that's, that's smart.

    26. JLJenny Lei21:48

        Ask for, ask for forgiveness, not permission. [laughing]

    27. MMMarina Mogilko21:51

        [laughing] And then I saw Anna Delvey

12. 21:53 – 22:35

    Anna Delvey: Marketing or coincidence?

    1. MMMarina Mogilko21:53

       wore your bag-

    2. JLJenny Lei21:53

       I know she did!

    3. MMMarina Mogilko21:54

       ... to court.

    4. JLJenny Lei21:55

       Yeah. We did not... We, we didn't send her the bag. [laughing]

    5. MMMarina Mogilko21:57

       Was- [laughing]

    6. JLJenny Lei21:57

       We didn't-

    7. MMMarina Mogilko21:58

       So that wasn't part of the strategy. [laughing]

    8. JLJenny Lei22:00

       No, I asked Molly. I was like, "Molly?" She's like, "No, that wasn't me." [laughing]

    9. MMMarina Mogilko22:03

       [laughing] Do you feel like you don't want to target certain people with your bag, or you're inclusive of everyone?

    10. JLJenny Lei22:09

        Um, we're definitely selective. Like, your selling power is not the main thing that we consider. Like, especially when looking, um, for creators to work with, I think what we look for is interesting people, um, I think, like, people that I find inspirational in some way, um, either their style or their story, um, or what they do in the world.

13. 22:35 – 23:49

    Tips for creators

    1. MMMarina Mogilko22:35

       Can you give any tips to a beginner creator who wants to work with you?

    2. JLJenny Lei22:39

       Uh-

    3. MMMarina Mogilko22:39

       How polished should the content be? Should they just be posting about style? B- because what I... I've started doing some fashion Instagram-

    4. JLJenny Lei22:46

       Mm

    5. MMMarina Mogilko22:46

       ... and I've been primarily business, and I've heard a lot of backlash from brands. They're like, "You're not s-" They, they won't say it directly-

    6. JLJenny Lei22:53

       Mm

    7. MMMarina Mogilko22:53

       ... but they're like, "This is not the type of content we're looking for." But, like, translates into, "You're not stylish enough. Where are these photo shoots in, like, New York aesthetics," whatever. And so this is what I've been hearing back from the industry.

    8. JLJenny Lei23:04

       Interesting.

    9. MMMarina Mogilko23:04

       Is that your approach as well?

    10. JLJenny Lei23:06

        I think for us, so there's two types of creators that we mainly work with. One is for content. So the first type is, you know, I, I think you have really, really good, good, good eye for content, so that's, like, one category, and obviously, that's... Our creative director is based in Copenhagen, so now we have a lot of Copenhagen girls. Like, they, like, that's, like, the Freja aesthetic-

    11. MMMarina Mogilko23:25

        When you want stylish cities

    12. JLJenny Lei23:26

        ... very neutral.

    13. MMMarina Mogilko23:27

        Yeah.

    14. JLJenny Lei23:27

        City-

    15. MMMarina Mogilko23:27

        Yeah

    16. JLJenny Lei23:27

        ... like black and white. Yeah, and then the second type is, um, people who can move product, essentially.

    17. MMMarina Mogilko23:34

        Yeah.

    18. JLJenny Lei23:34

        And then I think for those, I'm looking for someone with a point of view, like, someone really authentic-

    19. MMMarina Mogilko23:40

        Mm

    20. JLJenny Lei23:40

        ... someone with a very engaged following, who follows them for a reason, and, you know, will... is open to buying what they suggest.

    21. MMMarina Mogilko23:48

        Yeah.

14. 23:49 – 25:03

    "If I get canceled, so does my company"

    1. MMMarina Mogilko23:49

       In today's world, everything is scrutinized, everything is criticized on social media. Have you ever had an event when you had an opinion, and then you got so much backlash, you're like, "I'd rather just not say anything?" [chuckles]

    2. JLJenny Lei24:00

       I don't think so. Not yet. Not yet. Um, but, like, there's always gonna be backlash about everything. So for the first three years, there was nothing about me. There was... I think maybe my first name was on the website, but you couldn't find anything else about me. And then when I hired PR, she was like, "Jenny, you need to put yourself out there. Like, it'll help build the brand. It'll help build you."... and she was right, but I was really scared. I was like, "What if there's backlash? What if there's backlash?" And then-

    3. MMMarina Mogilko24:23

       You're right. Yes, that's a risk as well.

    4. JLJenny Lei24:24

       It's a risk.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko24:25

       Like, if you get g- I think about this all the time, 'cause I'm the face of my company.

    6. JLJenny Lei24:28

       Mm.

    7. MMMarina Mogilko24:28

       If I get canceled-

    8. JLJenny Lei24:29

       Like, exactly

    9. MMMarina Mogilko24:29

       ... the whole company [chuckles] goes down.

    10. JLJenny Lei24:31

        I know, and it's, like, one of those things that you can't come back from. Like, once people know you, they're not gonna un-know you.

    11. MMMarina Mogilko24:35

        Yeah.

    12. JLJenny Lei24:35

        Right? Like, they might forget about you, but they'll-

    13. MMMarina Mogilko24:37

        Yeah

    14. JLJenny Lei24:37

        ... they'll always know you.

    15. MMMarina Mogilko24:38

        Yeah.

    16. JLJenny Lei24:38

        That's, like, one of those decisions that it's not a two-way door. Like, you go through, you're not coming back.

    17. MMMarina Mogilko24:42

        Yeah.

    18. JLJenny Lei24:42

        But then someone told me this at the very beginning, and it always stuck with me, and he said, "If you don't tell your story, someone else will." So I'm like, "Okay, I need to get ahead of this. If there's backlash, great, I can learn from it," but as long as I am acting in accordance to my own morals and value system, I think, like, I can go to sleep happy at night knowing that.

    19. MMMarina Mogilko25:01

        Couple last questions:

15. 25:03 – 27:07

    "I want to build a legacy brand"

    1. MMMarina Mogilko25:03

       Where do you see your brand in 10 years?

    2. JLJenny Lei25:06

       I guess I'm not a planner, so I don't- I haven't planned anything out beyond maybe the next year or two. But I decided, collectively with my team... I think this was maybe a month ago, we started having, um, like, all-hands-on-deck calls, which are kind of fun. On the first one, I said, "Guys, you know, I've been really thinking about this." Um, we've grown the team a lot in the last six months, so everyone's, like, pretty new. Like, we have a world-class team here. Everyone is so good and so passionate about Freja and their role. If we're doing the work anyway, why don't we think about building Freja into a legacy brand? Like, I think it was just a little mindset shift. Like, business is formulaic, right? You, you do the product, you do the marketing, you do operations, logistics. I think what is not formulaic is how you think about it and the mindset behind everything, and I, like, I think that is actually what's driving the most change, like, as, as I've noticed. Um, like, last year, I decided I'm gonna take myself seriously, and I'm gonna take Freja seriously. Huge change. This year, I'm like, "Okay, I'm taking it seriously, but where do I wanna go? Let's channel this energy into building a legacy brand." We're doing this anyway. It's not more work. It's just different work, and then I'm just thinking a lot more long term, and then I think it makes it actually a lot easier for everyone else to focus in on what their role is in the company and where they're gonna grow and where we're taking it. And it's a lot easier to filter decisions through, like, would a legacy brand do this?

    3. MMMarina Mogilko26:31

       Yeah. What's, what's different now?

    4. JLJenny Lei26:32

       I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast. I think I wanna invest a lot more into building the brand instead of just, like, selling product, in a way, and that's why I wanna do, like, more community events. I wanna be known for being a brand that treats its community and customers and vendors and everyone really, really well, along with having, you know, a nice selection of functional-

    5. MMMarina Mogilko26:56

       Mm

    6. JLJenny Lei26:57

       ... bags. I want to expand into men's, I want to take it global, and I want to have a lot of fun doing it.

    7. MMMarina Mogilko27:05

       Love it. What's the brand

16. 27:07 – 28:37

    Jenny’s (and Kate Middleton’s) favorite brand

    1. MMMarina Mogilko27:07

       that you're looking up to?

    2. JLJenny Lei27:08

       There is one brand. It's called Métier London. They're not super well-known. I think they're getting a lot more press now, which they very, very much deserve, but I think they've been around maybe, like, six or seven years. But the designer, Melissa, used to work at... I think she used to design cars, so she comes from, like, a car technical, a more technical background, and I think she started with men's bags. They're very expensive, but I saw one in store once, and it's very rare that I'm like, "Oh, that's really high quality." And, like, everything she does is so thoughtful, and that was one of my inspirations for starting Freja, was, like, I want my bags to feel really, really thoughtful. Um, and I think she does that really, really well, like, every little detail, like how the magnet sounds when it closes, like, things like that.

    3. MMMarina Mogilko27:55

       Yeah.

    4. JLJenny Lei27:55

       And I think that's, like, the level of thought and detail that I aspire to.

    5. MMMarina Mogilko28:00

       How do you then balance the price tag and-

    6. JLJenny Lei28:03

       Yeah

    7. MMMarina Mogilko28:03

       ... the quality?

    8. JLJenny Lei28:03

       Yeah. Um, at the same time, it's like I do want Freja to be and remain accessible. That's really, really important to me. Um, I don't wanna change our pricing too much. I think what I might do is launch, like, limited edition runs, maybe, like, a couple hundred pieces, higher priced. Like, you can go for that if you want. However, we'll always have our main collection, and I think that will build the brand, too. It's like we are known for, you know, having our basics, but we will also offer elevated pieces here and there.

    9. MMMarina Mogilko28:36

       Can you give advice

17. 28:37 – 31:34

    The mindset shift you need right NOW

    1. MMMarina Mogilko28:37

       for women who are watching right now? They have a brilliant idea, but the market is saturated. They don't know how to start. They don't really believe in themselves. What is the mindset change they have to go through in order to make it happen?

    2. JLJenny Lei28:49

       You just have to do it. You'll never be ready, and I also think don't think too far in advance, because you'll get really, really overwhelmed. Just think about the next step. My favorite podcast, Alex Hormozi, my bible, there's something he said, and I'm like, "That is exactly what I'm trying to say." So he said, "Imagine you are in a dark tunnel. You have a headlamp on your head. You can see what's in front of you, nothing further than that." Starting a business, similar, you can see what you have to do next. I'm like, "Okay, I don't know how to sell bags, but before I sell bags, I know I need to know how to make a bag, and before I know how to make a bag, I need to, like, find a sample maker." So it's like one step at a time, and then he says, "You only know what's in front of you, and then you're not gonna see what's next until you take that first step. But once you take that first step, the next step illuminates." And I think what people don't realize is you at step two is not you at step one. You at step two is much better equipped to deal with everything that you need to do at that point, but you need to take that first step first. Like, think about your job today. You could probably do it in your sleep, but day one, like, you went in there like, "Oh, my gosh, I don't know what to do." Like, the problems I'm dealing with today, I'm looking back, and I'm like, "If I knew what I knew today, I don't know if I would've started Freja."

    3. MMMarina Mogilko30:02

       I hear that from every entrepreneur. [chuckles]

    4. JLJenny Lei30:04

       Really? [chuckles]

    5. MMMarina Mogilko30:05

       Yeah, yeah. [chuckles]

    6. JLJenny Lei30:05

       It's like, you don't even... You don't know what you're signing up for.

    7. MMMarina Mogilko30:07

       Yeah.

    8. JLJenny Lei30:07

       You don't need to know. Like, you're not handle- you're not gonna handle it.

    9. MMMarina Mogilko30:11

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JLJenny Lei30:11

        You're not gonna be able to handle it, but future you will. And I think another thing is figuring out what to measure, like, especially when you're not necessarily making progress, um, in the beginning. And I think, for me, like, when we- even when we weren't selling bags, I was like, "Okay, I know if I can get my ads engine to work, like, that... What is that one thing, your input-output equation? Like, what is that one thing?" I'm like, "You know, I might not be able to sell bags, but if every day, if every day I promise myself my input is I will sit in front of Facebook and try different things for eight hours a day, there is no way that I'm not gonna learn." And I think going off of that is really figuring out, like, what's actually going to drive you forward? For my, for me, like, I need to sell bags, 'cause there's so many things that you could worry about.

    11. MMMarina Mogilko30:58

        Yeah.

    12. JLJenny Lei30:59

        But, like, right now, I just need to figure out a way to sell, and I'm choosing ads. You can pick anything. It could be content. It could be, um, influencer, but, like, focus in on one thing or one way of getting customers and get really, really good at it.

    13. MMMarina Mogilko31:13

        Love it. Love it. Thank you so much.

    14. JLJenny Lei31:15

        Thank you so much for having me. [chuckles]

    15. MMMarina Mogilko31:16

        Very insightful, so many cool stories. Thank you, Jenny, and looking forward to, um, seeing more of your bags in New York, in Bay Area, see them everywhere. [chime] Huge congratulations on that.

    16. JLJenny Lei31:26

        Thank you so much for having me. It was so fun.

    17. MMMarina Mogilko31:28

        [lips smack] Awesome.

    18. JLJenny Lei31:29

        Yay.

    19. MMMarina Mogilko31:29

        That was great. Thank you.

    20. JLJenny Lei31:30

        Wait, also, favorite podcast ever.

    21. MMMarina Mogilko31:32

        Oh, really? Thank you.

    22. JLJenny Lei31:32

        I love your questions.

    23. MMMarina Mogilko31:33

        Thank you so much.

Episode duration: 31:34